5 ms·

EU sends Apple first DMA interoperability instructions for apps and devices

113 points by walterbell 2y ago

twoodfin 2y ago
I expect Apple will react to this by scaling down the sophistication and breadth of features they make available to EU users. That most of these capabilities exist at all reflects Apple’s belief that they’re a way to differentiate their (closed) ecosystem through vertical integration. If the EU takes that away, Apple’s motivation to invest in these areas for EU customers goes away, too.
- Etheryte 2y ago
  This sounds highly unlikely, as it would drastically hurt the sales of adjacent devices and accessories. In my opinion, the most likely outcome is the Apple regular, where they release docs, but the docs are so bad that they're practically unworkable.
  - twoodfin 2y ago
    If Apple has the choice to give up developing products in a controlled, vertically integrated manner OR losing a substantial fraction of EU device and accessory sales, I don’t think that’s a hard one for them. We already see it in another regulatory regime, with AI features coming much later to the EU, if at all.
    - troupo 2y ago
      > OR losing a substantial fraction of EU device and accessory sales, I don’t think that’s a hard one for them. It isn't hard at all. "Develop stuff the way we want, or lose sales" is really not a hard decision at all. Funny how you end up with an answer that defies all common and business sense > with AI features coming much later to the EU, if at all. They are coming despite all of Apple's posturing, and on a schedule that was already determined before all the posturing.
      - walterbell 2y ago
        Revamped AI is delayed to 2027 anyway.
        dividedbyzero 2y ago
        Lets see how that'll go when the competition starts offering really polished LLM assistants on their devices and people see their friends use them on their 400 Euro Androids and all they get on their 1700 Euro iPhone is Siri from 2011.
        walterbell 2y ago
        EU can mandate that Apple open up more interfaces for 3rd party LLM assistants to run locally,
      - xvokcarts 2y ago
        > "Develop stuff the way we want, or lose sales" I think the wants (of the EU buyers) are far less homogeneous than the group of open integration activists make it look like, so there's no "we". We hear the opinions of the vocal ones and based on those voices regulation is enacted, but nothing changes for the silent majority. However, a lot of people in the EU may start caring if they can no longer buy what they want just because of the vocal few, and they may stop being silent about it when it touches them.
        FeepingCreature 2y ago
        EU buyer here, I am extremely hype for forced interop and think it almost justifies the existence of the EU on its own. Sure, most people don't care. That's the case for every regulation - policy is made by activists. Better than by corporations any day.
        xvokcarts 2y ago
        >EU buyer here, I am extremely hype for forced interop and think it almost justifies the existence of the EU on its own. That was my point. There is no "we". >That's the case for every regulation - policy is made by activists. Maybe, but when regulation made by activists starts touching the lives of people that don't care about the thing activists want, they may not like the idea of activists deciding for them. So far all the companies regulated by EU have accepted the regulation - we don't know how most people will react if suddenly something they want is not available to them because of a minority that think their expertise is above their wants.
    - piva00 2y ago
      Losing 20% of global revenue is not really an option.
      - intrasight 2y ago
        How would disabling certain features in certain markets hostile to their business model result in 20% revenue loss?
        disgruntledphd2 2y ago
        Because less people would buy Apple devices.
        monooso 2y ago
        I realise this wasn't your point, but there is something deeply dystopian about referring to the EU's attempt to act in the best interests of its citizens as "hostile to [Apple's] business model."
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
      - burnerthrow008 2y ago
        Losing 20% of global revenue while also losing 20% of global COGS is a much better option than losing 10% of revenue and incurring an extra 10% of R&D.
    - atwrk 2y ago
      This is a false dichotomy: Noone is forbidding Apple doing intergration of their products. The DMA simply forbids barring competitors from the same access. Just compare how Apple cripples third party smartwatches on ios.
    - simion314 2y ago
      >We already see it in another regulatory regime, with AI features coming much later to the EU, if at all. This is FUD from Apple fanboys, Apple delayed their shit in UK and other non EU countries. Apple was probably incapable to release those AI features at the same time in more then a few countries. And guess what, OpenAI , Anthropic and other AI companies will for sure try to replace Siri and Apple will try to avoid that and hopefully would pay fair and not cripple competitors. I am from EU and I am not missing any AI providers, maybe some alpha/beta stuff that launches first in USA before they add the features about protecting the privacy of the user or until the lawyers are done rewording the ToS on how they sell your data but word it as a good thing.
  - SkiFire13 2y ago
    I thought the Apple regular was rejecting apps from the App store for seemingly no reason.
  - WhyNotHugo 2y ago
    It might hurt short term sales, but it helps paint a picture of “evil EU won’t let us sell you the latest features”. I.e.: propaganda fuel.
    - dismalaf 2y ago
      The "USA" brand is currently taking a pummelling in Europe, this isn't a good strategy.
      - jisnsm 2y ago
        Maybe in progressive circles. There’s life outside too.
        dismalaf 2y ago
        Nah it's pretty much every circle in Europe. Macron in France and the current German government are centre right. Poland is socially way to the right. Baltics, Scandinavia, Italy, all pretty right wing. Only Putinistas support what the US is doing with Trump, which is to say, almost no one in Europe.
        jisnsm 2y ago
        Macron is not right wing by absolutely any sane definition of the concept. Can’t say anything about the others.
        dismalaf 2y ago
        Macron is definitely centre-right... He's literally a former investment banker who's been trying to dismantle the welfare state, lower taxes, increase business friendliness, etc... He's also been tough on immigration lately. Not sure in what world any of this would be considered leftist policies...
    - j_maffe 2y ago
      If you're expecting a significant portion of EU citizens would take a stance with Apple instead of the EU, you'd be wrong.
- avdlinde 2y ago
  Doesn't that mean effectively losing market share to devices that do have capabilities in the eu, or that are accepting restrictions, say Android?
- IsTom 2y ago
  Dropping their second biggest region, which makes them 25% of revenue sounds unlikely. Especially as it's just putting that money into competitors' pockets.
  - twoodfin 2y ago
    They don’t have to drop it entirely, they just stop enabling features there that would trigger the EU’s gatekeeper requirements. It will hurt their competitiveness and sales, but that’s a relatively small price to pay vs. giving up the product design culture they’ve honed for almost 50 years.
    - ethbr1 2y ago
      > product design culture they’ve honed for almost 50 year That's an interesting way to phrase not supporting non-Apple interoperability.
      - twoodfin 2y ago
        It’s also a way to phrase, “Hey, we’ve figured out how to save 10% battery life on the Watch by rejiggering the sync protocol and can ship it in the next iOS / watchOS point release.” The flexibility and agility you have when the only engineering constraints are internal are night and day vs. having to evolve a documented external spec with interop requirements.
        disgruntledphd2 2y ago
        Unfortunately for Apple, they've been too successful to get away with self-preferencing anymore. As an EU citizen, I don't like everything they do, but the DMA is rocking as otherwise we'll end up with 5-10 companies basically running all technology and way less competition. It's very interesting to me that so many people claim to be in favour of competition but don't like laws like the DMA.
      - milesrout 2y ago
        They support plenty of non-Apple interoperability. They support HTTP and IMAP and SMTP, for example. They support SMS and phone calls. They support lots of standards, including de facto standards around things like calendars. They don't support everything, but to say they don't support interoperability is silly.
- troupo 2y ago
  And yet, for all their posturing and trying to blame EU for their own failures, Apple has no intention of doing so, complies with demand, and released all the features in the EU. Because it's a huge wealthy market.
- atwrk 2y ago
  I doubt it. So far, they have dropped every anti-competitive tactic that the EU has objected to. After all, in which other market are they expected to grow? China already shifts to domestic brands, and other regions lack the purchasing power.
- weberer 2y ago
  Yeah, they already started to do that. For example, if you try to use iPhone mirroring from a Mac within the EU, you get a little pop-up saying "iPhone Mirroring is not available in your country or region." But if you travel to a non-EU country, it works fine.
- piyuv 2y ago
  I hope they do! I need a little bit more push to switch to Android
- yapyap 2y ago
  Highly doubt it, the EU is not the same as the UK. The precedent set by the USB C is in line with Apple complying.
  - jsheard 2y ago
    Although, rumor is that Apple complying with the USB-C directive was just a stop-gap on the way to them removing the charging port altogether. https://www.macrumors.com/2025/03/16/slimmer-iphones-without-usb-c-ports/ https://www.macrumors.com/2025/03/16/slimmer-iphones-without...
    - ChocolateGod 2y ago
      That's fine, they need to support USB-C on whatever dock it needs to sit on to charge.
    - walterbell 2y ago
      Portless is necessary for the foldable iPhone model to approach the size of a current iPhone when folded. For iPhone Pro, USB-c has uses beyond charging, e.g. SSDs for video recording, or desktop docking as macOS and iOS converge with VisionOS.
- akmarinov 2y ago
  Losing 20% of revenue sure sounds like a great look in front of investors. Just open it up and let people sideload - 90% won't do it anyway and it'll cause people to switch from Android, which is a lot more prevalent in Europe
- amelius 2y ago
  > I expect Apple will react to this by scaling down the sophistication and breadth of features they make available to EU users. You mean that Apple will fight this war over the user's back? That's one more reason to not buy Apple.
  - intrasight 2y ago
    You are conflating user and government.
    - amelius 2y ago
      I expect a company to operate in the interest of the customer, no matter the rules of the government.
      - intrasight 2y ago
        And that's exactly what Apple is trying to do.
        amelius 2y ago
        By crippling their devices? Sorry, "abuse of power" is what that's called and all the more reason to fight it.
- niemandhier 2y ago
  Lots of stuff is going to shift away from Mac / windows in the next years. If apple assumes they can get away with this tactic they’ll lose even more market share. Not because the alternatives are better, but just because the exceptions that were made from valid legislation will not be prolonged in face of the “New American Way”. All hinges on the future of the TDPF. https://www.euractiv.com/section/tech/news/deafening-commission-silence-with-no-credible-eu-us-data-oversight-left/ https://www.euractiv.com/section/tech/news/deafening-commiss... Lots of public servants will have to suffer through Linux desktops.
  - oaiey 2y ago
    I also see this happening. Since a 80 year old alliance becomes unreliable, protective measures will go up. The US companies like the FAANGs profited a lot in the last 30 years by that, they will be a hit on their revenues, regulations will go up and alternatives will be funded. How successful this all will be, another question.
- gostsamo 2y ago
  So europeans will stop preferring Apple and they loose market share to whoever can offer something better. Sucks to be spiteful.
- dividedbyzero 2y ago
  If they do then they'll just lose market share to Android, because the Asian manufacturers will offer all these features and they're getting more polished each year. For me personally, all Apple really has going for their products these days is being very stable and dependable, I can always just get the newest Pro phone and have something that'll work well for me. They used to be attractive because they weren't Chinese but US tech is becoming an even bigger liability, and the Asian competition has a lot more on offer in terms of features though it's a lot more of a gamble if it'll be executed well and get maintained and I don't like to gamble on things like that. Most casual users already don't care, nor should they. But if Apple cripple their devices further I think a lot more of their core user base will be willing to try an Android, depending on what features they axe. If they make iPhones inconvenient in addition to somewhat lagging behind the market, all they'd have left is their brand and marketing and that's about to take a beating in the looming tariff wars. No, I think they may do a little of that for symbolics and they certainly will throw a lot of fits but ultimately they'll just comply and that will be that.
  - kennysoona 2y ago
    > all Apple really has going for their products these days is being very stable and dependable, That's not Apple that's everyone. Computers randomly crashing hasn't been a thing for a long time.
- pjc50 2y ago
  Apple is, or has been, an EU company for tax purposes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple%27s_EU_tax_dispute https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple%27s_EU_tax_dispute
  - lotsofpulp 2y ago
    Companies have always been a “<insert any country/state/city they do business in> company”. If you have a business, every new jurisdiction you do business in requires you to register as a business and comply with their tax/labor laws.
  - zoobab 2y ago
    Make a subsidiary in Ireland, Apple paid 0% taxes by transforming every imposable EUR as a patent licence, imposed in Ireland. Then they bought US treasure bonds, where the yearly interests amounted to 50USD/american citizen. They stole from european and american tax payers.
- cynicalsecurity 2y ago
  Yes, please, I'd be glad if Apple began removing their new "sophisticated" features from the phones of EU users. Especially their AI spying agent and endless non-consensual and intrusive telemetry.
- seec 2y ago
  They already do that in many ways. Plenty of features are US only with no signs of Apple wanting to provide complete parity. I think it is really good if Apple becomes weaker in the EU, more space for other competitors to step in...
ChocolateGod 2y ago
As cool how unified the Apple ecosystem is, I do think the EU is right that it's extremely unfair for Apple to give its own smartwatches access to the phone that other smartwatches have zero chance of getting access to.
- radicalbyte 2y ago
  There was a time, long long ago, when the US had regulators with balls, they regulated Microsoft to stop them pulling this anti-competitive shit.
  - milesrout 2y ago
    They famously did basically nothing to Microsoft and Microsoft continued to maintain a near monopoly for many years and do all the same things it had always done to keep its monopoly.
    - ChocolateGod 2y ago
      And whilst the EU was focusing on Microsoft, Google took the chance to have it's turn.
    - j_maffe 2y ago
      Microsoft became much more diversified and interoperable than it was before that crackdown.
    - rickdeckard 2y ago
      Some people apparently don't remember Windows 98 and how Microsoft tried to demonstrate that Internet Explorer is suddenly such an integral part of the OS that it's technically impossible to separate it. It didn't work, they were forced to decouple it again (which was susprisingly simple), and despite the somewhat weak result for Win98 I think we can be thankful for that. I don't want to imagine how Windows 2000 would have looked if they would have continued cementing IE6 into the frontend...
      - 2y ago
ChrisArchitect 2y ago
[dupe] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43416451 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43416451
kirstenbirgit 2y ago
EU forgets that this kind of overzealous, micromanaging intervention only reduces incentives to innovate new features and products. If the EU forces companies with a competitive edge (better software, in this case) to make it available to their competitors, what’s the point? I can make my own decisions about which platforms and software to use, thank you very much. I don’t need or want EU to force companies to build software and products a certain way for some pipe-dream goal of making everything "interoperable." And if anything, given that EU has repeatedly failed to implement sensible tech regulation, why should the same institution have the authority to dictate how tech businesses build their products?
- arrrg 2y ago
  Apple has been completely unwilling to play ball. They behaved like a petulant child through all of this. I’m completely convinced that no one at the EU wants to micro manage any of this. But they have to. Because Apple has been failing to read the room for years.
- elric 2y ago
  What do you mean "what's the point"? Before Apple got to the point of being subject to this particular attempt at regulation, it amassed billions in revenue and reached a 3+trillion dollar valuation. Very few startups (innovative or otherwise) will ever come close to that. Only a handful of companies globally are subject to these regulations.
- regularjack 2y ago
  You think it makes sense that non-apple smartwatches work fine on Android but not on iOS? If I have a Garmin and decide to switch phones from Android to iOS, the Garmin won't work as well. That doesn't make sense to me and this is what will be fixed.
zoobab 2y ago
DMA does not provide any means to run Linux on Apple devices. I don't want their shitty OS, but I like their hardware. Unfortunately, the law makers prefer to cement oligopolies (Android-iPhone), instead of installing fines for not documentating how their hardware works.
- intrasight 2y ago
  Regulating the requirement that Apple support Linux on Macs makes no sense. What does make sense - to me anyway - is for Apple to embrace Linux because they'd sell a lot more Macs. I assume there are many thousands of developers like me that detest macOS and won't even consider a Mac. But like you said, Apple is making some amazing hardware these days. I would buy a Mac if Linux was well supported. Apple did just fine in the early days when their hardware and software was open source. But while it got them up and running, it's not a viable business model to get to be a multi trillion dollar company. It became understood in tech that the way to be profitable was to make your competitors stack a commodity.
  - zoobab 2y ago
    "Regulating the requirement that Apple support Linux on Macs makes no sense." Not Linux, but any Operating System. They just have to publish the documentation of how the hardware works.
  - milesrout 2y ago
    Apple's hardware is good because of the software on it. Hardware is controlled by software. Lots of stuff that once happened in hardware is now done in drivers. For example, Apple's speakers melt if you run them at maximum volume. Regulating that is what software is for. I say that as someone that prefers to use Linux.
  - j_maffe 2y ago
    > I assume there are many thousands of developers like me that detest macOS Out of millions of buyers. Developers are almost an irrelevant demography to consider for such a fundamental change.
  - 2y ago
hello_computer 2y ago
[flagged]
- yieldcrv 2y ago
  Feels disrespectful to whores, they put in the work
  - hello_computer 2y ago
    fair point
mrtksn 2y ago
EU is still surprisingly naive and open for business. After TikTok getting banned(postponed for now) in US for national security reasons, and after US cutting military support and intelligence in Ukraine I was expecting for things to start rolling by now. They already start doing things on the military side of things with restricting the military equipment purchases to EU only with exceptions granted on the basis that foreign supplier should NOT have a way to shut down equipment use(be it a Killswitch, political pressure or supply chain control). If USA decides to side with Russia on the invasion of Europe or maybe just annexing Greenland, they can shut down EU telecommunications or air propaganda messaging over Apple/Google devices or platforms and other social media platforms. What worked for Russia and China was to restrict their markets and guarantee opportunities for homegrown alternatives. I still expect for EU and pretty much all the world to end up doing this. I'm not enjoying it, I don't want things to go this way but no way that EU can afford giving full communications control to a hostile country. Tough times ahead, this DMA stuff was the right approach last year. Sometime in the next 4 year a private company will be used to do something acutely military or political to EU like they did in Ukraine and enough people will panic and a similar response will be generated. IMHO Apple will be served better if they play ball and make themselves useless for public warfare purposes and ensure continued access to EU market even if it means potential losses on services revenue. This will give them opportunity to say that you can just use EU services and keep buying the iPhones.
- DaveMcMartin 2y ago
  I’m not enjoying this either. I get that it’s necessary for the EU, but I’m still in favor of free trade.
  - mrtksn 2y ago
    Me too but the USA decided to do something else. EU will be forced to follow suit, can’t be the only free market when everyone else is favoring their own companies.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- 2y ago
DaveMcMartin 2y ago
Good. Apple fanboys, no need to worry! If you’re in the US, all these features will be geoblocked, so you can enjoy your walled garden as much as you like. If you’re in the EU, just stick to Apple products and avoid any alternatives.
kjreact 2y ago
Apple’s strongest advantage is their seamless integration between their hardware and their software. The best way for rivals to weaken this advantage is to lobby for breaking this integration under the guise of consumer protection.
seec 2y ago
Even if you think that the EU is an over-regulating bureaucratic monster (which I do), Apple is proving exactly why we need regulations in the first place. They wouldn't be in this mess if their behavior wasn't so unfair and anti-competition. The worst is that Apple could very well compete on their own merits (I think their solutions have a lot of benefits, the problem is their ability to dictate pricing because of said behavior). It is completely insane that Apple has the right to dictate how I want to use my device and restrict its capabilities/access under the pretense that they know better than me what's good for me. People who want to do everything the Apple way are free to do so but people who would like freedom to use their devices as they see fit (and potentially give access to Apple designated bad actors) should be free to do so. The same thing happened to car companies and now everybody agrees it was for the better, making big tech comply with the same rules is past due. The hilarious part is that Apple complained about the same things when Microsoft was the dominant player, displaying their hypocrisy in play sight.

113 points by walterbell 2y ago

I expect Apple will react to this by scaling down the sophistication and breadth of features they make available to EU users. That most of these capabilities exist at all reflects Apple’s belief that they’re a way to differentiate their (closed) ecosystem through vertical integration. If the EU takes that away, Apple’s motivation to invest in these areas for EU customers goes away, too.

Etheryte 2y ago
This sounds highly unlikely, as it would drastically hurt the sales of adjacent devices and accessories. In my opinion, the most likely outcome is the Apple regular, where they release docs, but the docs are so bad that they're practically unworkable.
- twoodfin 2y ago
  If Apple has the choice to give up developing products in a controlled, vertically integrated manner OR losing a substantial fraction of EU device and accessory sales, I don’t think that’s a hard one for them. We already see it in another regulatory regime, with AI features coming much later to the EU, if at all.
  - troupo 2y ago
    > OR losing a substantial fraction of EU device and accessory sales, I don’t think that’s a hard one for them. It isn't hard at all. "Develop stuff the way we want, or lose sales" is really not a hard decision at all. Funny how you end up with an answer that defies all common and business sense > with AI features coming much later to the EU, if at all. They are coming despite all of Apple's posturing, and on a schedule that was already determined before all the posturing.
    - walterbell 2y ago
      Revamped AI is delayed to 2027 anyway.
      - dividedbyzero 2y ago
        Lets see how that'll go when the competition starts offering really polished LLM assistants on their devices and people see their friends use them on their 400 Euro Androids and all they get on their 1700 Euro iPhone is Siri from 2011.
        walterbell 2y ago
        EU can mandate that Apple open up more interfaces for 3rd party LLM assistants to run locally,
    - xvokcarts 2y ago
      > "Develop stuff the way we want, or lose sales" I think the wants (of the EU buyers) are far less homogeneous than the group of open integration activists make it look like, so there's no "we". We hear the opinions of the vocal ones and based on those voices regulation is enacted, but nothing changes for the silent majority. However, a lot of people in the EU may start caring if they can no longer buy what they want just because of the vocal few, and they may stop being silent about it when it touches them.
      - FeepingCreature 2y ago
        EU buyer here, I am extremely hype for forced interop and think it almost justifies the existence of the EU on its own. Sure, most people don't care. That's the case for every regulation - policy is made by activists. Better than by corporations any day.
        xvokcarts 2y ago
        >EU buyer here, I am extremely hype for forced interop and think it almost justifies the existence of the EU on its own. That was my point. There is no "we". >That's the case for every regulation - policy is made by activists. Maybe, but when regulation made by activists starts touching the lives of people that don't care about the thing activists want, they may not like the idea of activists deciding for them. So far all the companies regulated by EU have accepted the regulation - we don't know how most people will react if suddenly something they want is not available to them because of a minority that think their expertise is above their wants.
  - piva00 2y ago
    Losing 20% of global revenue is not really an option.
    - intrasight 2y ago
      How would disabling certain features in certain markets hostile to their business model result in 20% revenue loss?
      - disgruntledphd2 2y ago
        Because less people would buy Apple devices.
      - monooso 2y ago
        I realise this wasn't your point, but there is something deeply dystopian about referring to the EU's attempt to act in the best interests of its citizens as "hostile to [Apple's] business model."
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
    - burnerthrow008 2y ago
      Losing 20% of global revenue while also losing 20% of global COGS is a much better option than losing 10% of revenue and incurring an extra 10% of R&D.
  - atwrk 2y ago
    This is a false dichotomy: Noone is forbidding Apple doing intergration of their products. The DMA simply forbids barring competitors from the same access. Just compare how Apple cripples third party smartwatches on ios.
  - simion314 2y ago
    >We already see it in another regulatory regime, with AI features coming much later to the EU, if at all. This is FUD from Apple fanboys, Apple delayed their shit in UK and other non EU countries. Apple was probably incapable to release those AI features at the same time in more then a few countries. And guess what, OpenAI , Anthropic and other AI companies will for sure try to replace Siri and Apple will try to avoid that and hopefully would pay fair and not cripple competitors. I am from EU and I am not missing any AI providers, maybe some alpha/beta stuff that launches first in USA before they add the features about protecting the privacy of the user or until the lawyers are done rewording the ToS on how they sell your data but word it as a good thing.
- SkiFire13 2y ago
  I thought the Apple regular was rejecting apps from the App store for seemingly no reason.
- WhyNotHugo 2y ago
  It might hurt short term sales, but it helps paint a picture of “evil EU won’t let us sell you the latest features”. I.e.: propaganda fuel.
  - dismalaf 2y ago
    The "USA" brand is currently taking a pummelling in Europe, this isn't a good strategy.
    - jisnsm 2y ago
      Maybe in progressive circles. There’s life outside too.
      - dismalaf 2y ago
        Nah it's pretty much every circle in Europe. Macron in France and the current German government are centre right. Poland is socially way to the right. Baltics, Scandinavia, Italy, all pretty right wing. Only Putinistas support what the US is doing with Trump, which is to say, almost no one in Europe.
        jisnsm 2y ago
        Macron is not right wing by absolutely any sane definition of the concept. Can’t say anything about the others.
        dismalaf 2y ago
        Macron is definitely centre-right... He's literally a former investment banker who's been trying to dismantle the welfare state, lower taxes, increase business friendliness, etc... He's also been tough on immigration lately. Not sure in what world any of this would be considered leftist policies...
  - j_maffe 2y ago
    If you're expecting a significant portion of EU citizens would take a stance with Apple instead of the EU, you'd be wrong.
avdlinde 2y ago
Doesn't that mean effectively losing market share to devices that do have capabilities in the eu, or that are accepting restrictions, say Android?
IsTom 2y ago
Dropping their second biggest region, which makes them 25% of revenue sounds unlikely. Especially as it's just putting that money into competitors' pockets.
- twoodfin 2y ago
  They don’t have to drop it entirely, they just stop enabling features there that would trigger the EU’s gatekeeper requirements. It will hurt their competitiveness and sales, but that’s a relatively small price to pay vs. giving up the product design culture they’ve honed for almost 50 years.
  - ethbr1 2y ago
    > product design culture they’ve honed for almost 50 year That's an interesting way to phrase not supporting non-Apple interoperability.
    - twoodfin 2y ago
      It’s also a way to phrase, “Hey, we’ve figured out how to save 10% battery life on the Watch by rejiggering the sync protocol and can ship it in the next iOS / watchOS point release.” The flexibility and agility you have when the only engineering constraints are internal are night and day vs. having to evolve a documented external spec with interop requirements.
      - disgruntledphd2 2y ago
        Unfortunately for Apple, they've been too successful to get away with self-preferencing anymore. As an EU citizen, I don't like everything they do, but the DMA is rocking as otherwise we'll end up with 5-10 companies basically running all technology and way less competition. It's very interesting to me that so many people claim to be in favour of competition but don't like laws like the DMA.
    - milesrout 2y ago
      They support plenty of non-Apple interoperability. They support HTTP and IMAP and SMTP, for example. They support SMS and phone calls. They support lots of standards, including de facto standards around things like calendars. They don't support everything, but to say they don't support interoperability is silly.
troupo 2y ago
And yet, for all their posturing and trying to blame EU for their own failures, Apple has no intention of doing so, complies with demand, and released all the features in the EU. Because it's a huge wealthy market.
atwrk 2y ago
I doubt it. So far, they have dropped every anti-competitive tactic that the EU has objected to. After all, in which other market are they expected to grow? China already shifts to domestic brands, and other regions lack the purchasing power.
weberer 2y ago
Yeah, they already started to do that. For example, if you try to use iPhone mirroring from a Mac within the EU, you get a little pop-up saying "iPhone Mirroring is not available in your country or region." But if you travel to a non-EU country, it works fine.
piyuv 2y ago
I hope they do! I need a little bit more push to switch to Android
yapyap 2y ago
Highly doubt it, the EU is not the same as the UK. The precedent set by the USB C is in line with Apple complying.
- jsheard 2y ago
  Although, rumor is that Apple complying with the USB-C directive was just a stop-gap on the way to them removing the charging port altogether. https://www.macrumors.com/2025/03/16/slimmer-iphones-without-usb-c-ports/ https://www.macrumors.com/2025/03/16/slimmer-iphones-without...
  - ChocolateGod 2y ago
    That's fine, they need to support USB-C on whatever dock it needs to sit on to charge.
  - walterbell 2y ago
    Portless is necessary for the foldable iPhone model to approach the size of a current iPhone when folded. For iPhone Pro, USB-c has uses beyond charging, e.g. SSDs for video recording, or desktop docking as macOS and iOS converge with VisionOS.
akmarinov 2y ago
Losing 20% of revenue sure sounds like a great look in front of investors. Just open it up and let people sideload - 90% won't do it anyway and it'll cause people to switch from Android, which is a lot more prevalent in Europe
amelius 2y ago
> I expect Apple will react to this by scaling down the sophistication and breadth of features they make available to EU users. You mean that Apple will fight this war over the user's back? That's one more reason to not buy Apple.
- intrasight 2y ago
  You are conflating user and government.
  - amelius 2y ago
    I expect a company to operate in the interest of the customer, no matter the rules of the government.
    - intrasight 2y ago
      And that's exactly what Apple is trying to do.
      - amelius 2y ago
        By crippling their devices? Sorry, "abuse of power" is what that's called and all the more reason to fight it.
niemandhier 2y ago
Lots of stuff is going to shift away from Mac / windows in the next years. If apple assumes they can get away with this tactic they’ll lose even more market share. Not because the alternatives are better, but just because the exceptions that were made from valid legislation will not be prolonged in face of the “New American Way”. All hinges on the future of the TDPF. https://www.euractiv.com/section/tech/news/deafening-commission-silence-with-no-credible-eu-us-data-oversight-left/ https://www.euractiv.com/section/tech/news/deafening-commiss... Lots of public servants will have to suffer through Linux desktops.
- oaiey 2y ago
  I also see this happening. Since a 80 year old alliance becomes unreliable, protective measures will go up. The US companies like the FAANGs profited a lot in the last 30 years by that, they will be a hit on their revenues, regulations will go up and alternatives will be funded. How successful this all will be, another question.
gostsamo 2y ago
So europeans will stop preferring Apple and they loose market share to whoever can offer something better. Sucks to be spiteful.
dividedbyzero 2y ago
If they do then they'll just lose market share to Android, because the Asian manufacturers will offer all these features and they're getting more polished each year. For me personally, all Apple really has going for their products these days is being very stable and dependable, I can always just get the newest Pro phone and have something that'll work well for me. They used to be attractive because they weren't Chinese but US tech is becoming an even bigger liability, and the Asian competition has a lot more on offer in terms of features though it's a lot more of a gamble if it'll be executed well and get maintained and I don't like to gamble on things like that. Most casual users already don't care, nor should they. But if Apple cripple their devices further I think a lot more of their core user base will be willing to try an Android, depending on what features they axe. If they make iPhones inconvenient in addition to somewhat lagging behind the market, all they'd have left is their brand and marketing and that's about to take a beating in the looming tariff wars. No, I think they may do a little of that for symbolics and they certainly will throw a lot of fits but ultimately they'll just comply and that will be that.
- kennysoona 2y ago
  > all Apple really has going for their products these days is being very stable and dependable, That's not Apple that's everyone. Computers randomly crashing hasn't been a thing for a long time.
pjc50 2y ago
Apple is, or has been, an EU company for tax purposes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple%27s_EU_tax_dispute https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple%27s_EU_tax_dispute
- lotsofpulp 2y ago
  Companies have always been a “<insert any country/state/city they do business in> company”. If you have a business, every new jurisdiction you do business in requires you to register as a business and comply with their tax/labor laws.
- zoobab 2y ago
  Make a subsidiary in Ireland, Apple paid 0% taxes by transforming every imposable EUR as a patent licence, imposed in Ireland. Then they bought US treasure bonds, where the yearly interests amounted to 50USD/american citizen. They stole from european and american tax payers.
cynicalsecurity 2y ago
Yes, please, I'd be glad if Apple began removing their new "sophisticated" features from the phones of EU users. Especially their AI spying agent and endless non-consensual and intrusive telemetry.
seec 2y ago
They already do that in many ways. Plenty of features are US only with no signs of Apple wanting to provide complete parity. I think it is really good if Apple becomes weaker in the EU, more space for other competitors to step in...

ChocolateGod 2y ago

As cool how unified the Apple ecosystem is, I do think the EU is right that it's extremely unfair for Apple to give its own smartwatches access to the phone that other smartwatches have zero chance of getting access to.

radicalbyte 2y ago
There was a time, long long ago, when the US had regulators with balls, they regulated Microsoft to stop them pulling this anti-competitive shit.
- milesrout 2y ago
  They famously did basically nothing to Microsoft and Microsoft continued to maintain a near monopoly for many years and do all the same things it had always done to keep its monopoly.
  - ChocolateGod 2y ago
    And whilst the EU was focusing on Microsoft, Google took the chance to have it's turn.
  - j_maffe 2y ago
    Microsoft became much more diversified and interoperable than it was before that crackdown.
  - rickdeckard 2y ago
    Some people apparently don't remember Windows 98 and how Microsoft tried to demonstrate that Internet Explorer is suddenly such an integral part of the OS that it's technically impossible to separate it. It didn't work, they were forced to decouple it again (which was susprisingly simple), and despite the somewhat weak result for Win98 I think we can be thankful for that. I don't want to imagine how Windows 2000 would have looked if they would have continued cementing IE6 into the frontend...
    - 2y ago

ChrisArchitect 2y ago

[dupe] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43416451 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43416451

kirstenbirgit 2y ago

EU forgets that this kind of overzealous, micromanaging intervention only reduces incentives to innovate new features and products. If the EU forces companies with a competitive edge (better software, in this case) to make it available to their competitors, what’s the point? I can make my own decisions about which platforms and software to use, thank you very much. I don’t need or want EU to force companies to build software and products a certain way for some pipe-dream goal of making everything "interoperable." And if anything, given that EU has repeatedly failed to implement sensible tech regulation, why should the same institution have the authority to dictate how tech businesses build their products?

arrrg 2y ago
Apple has been completely unwilling to play ball. They behaved like a petulant child through all of this. I’m completely convinced that no one at the EU wants to micro manage any of this. But they have to. Because Apple has been failing to read the room for years.
elric 2y ago
What do you mean "what's the point"? Before Apple got to the point of being subject to this particular attempt at regulation, it amassed billions in revenue and reached a 3+trillion dollar valuation. Very few startups (innovative or otherwise) will ever come close to that. Only a handful of companies globally are subject to these regulations.
regularjack 2y ago
You think it makes sense that non-apple smartwatches work fine on Android but not on iOS? If I have a Garmin and decide to switch phones from Android to iOS, the Garmin won't work as well. That doesn't make sense to me and this is what will be fixed.

zoobab 2y ago

DMA does not provide any means to run Linux on Apple devices. I don't want their shitty OS, but I like their hardware. Unfortunately, the law makers prefer to cement oligopolies (Android-iPhone), instead of installing fines for not documentating how their hardware works.

intrasight 2y ago
Regulating the requirement that Apple support Linux on Macs makes no sense. What does make sense - to me anyway - is for Apple to embrace Linux because they'd sell a lot more Macs. I assume there are many thousands of developers like me that detest macOS and won't even consider a Mac. But like you said, Apple is making some amazing hardware these days. I would buy a Mac if Linux was well supported. Apple did just fine in the early days when their hardware and software was open source. But while it got them up and running, it's not a viable business model to get to be a multi trillion dollar company. It became understood in tech that the way to be profitable was to make your competitors stack a commodity.
- zoobab 2y ago
  "Regulating the requirement that Apple support Linux on Macs makes no sense." Not Linux, but any Operating System. They just have to publish the documentation of how the hardware works.
- milesrout 2y ago
  Apple's hardware is good because of the software on it. Hardware is controlled by software. Lots of stuff that once happened in hardware is now done in drivers. For example, Apple's speakers melt if you run them at maximum volume. Regulating that is what software is for. I say that as someone that prefers to use Linux.
- j_maffe 2y ago
  > I assume there are many thousands of developers like me that detest macOS Out of millions of buyers. Developers are almost an irrelevant demography to consider for such a fundamental change.
- 2y ago

hello_computer 2y ago

[flagged]

yieldcrv 2y ago
Feels disrespectful to whores, they put in the work
- hello_computer 2y ago
  fair point

mrtksn 2y ago

EU is still surprisingly naive and open for business. After TikTok getting banned(postponed for now) in US for national security reasons, and after US cutting military support and intelligence in Ukraine I was expecting for things to start rolling by now. They already start doing things on the military side of things with restricting the military equipment purchases to EU only with exceptions granted on the basis that foreign supplier should NOT have a way to shut down equipment use(be it a Killswitch, political pressure or supply chain control). If USA decides to side with Russia on the invasion of Europe or maybe just annexing Greenland, they can shut down EU telecommunications or air propaganda messaging over Apple/Google devices or platforms and other social media platforms. What worked for Russia and China was to restrict their markets and guarantee opportunities for homegrown alternatives. I still expect for EU and pretty much all the world to end up doing this. I'm not enjoying it, I don't want things to go this way but no way that EU can afford giving full communications control to a hostile country. Tough times ahead, this DMA stuff was the right approach last year. Sometime in the next 4 year a private company will be used to do something acutely military or political to EU like they did in Ukraine and enough people will panic and a similar response will be generated. IMHO Apple will be served better if they play ball and make themselves useless for public warfare purposes and ensure continued access to EU market even if it means potential losses on services revenue. This will give them opportunity to say that you can just use EU services and keep buying the iPhones.

DaveMcMartin 2y ago
I’m not enjoying this either. I get that it’s necessary for the EU, but I’m still in favor of free trade.
- mrtksn 2y ago
  Me too but the USA decided to do something else. EU will be forced to follow suit, can’t be the only free market when everyone else is favoring their own companies.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
2y ago

DaveMcMartin 2y ago

Good. Apple fanboys, no need to worry! If you’re in the US, all these features will be geoblocked, so you can enjoy your walled garden as much as you like. If you’re in the EU, just stick to Apple products and avoid any alternatives.

kjreact 2y ago

Apple’s strongest advantage is their seamless integration between their hardware and their software. The best way for rivals to weaken this advantage is to lobby for breaking this integration under the guise of consumer protection.

seec 2y ago

Even if you think that the EU is an over-regulating bureaucratic monster (which I do), Apple is proving exactly why we need regulations in the first place. They wouldn't be in this mess if their behavior wasn't so unfair and anti-competition. The worst is that Apple could very well compete on their own merits (I think their solutions have a lot of benefits, the problem is their ability to dictate pricing because of said behavior). It is completely insane that Apple has the right to dictate how I want to use my device and restrict its capabilities/access under the pretense that they know better than me what's good for me. People who want to do everything the Apple way are free to do so but people who would like freedom to use their devices as they see fit (and potentially give access to Apple designated bad actors) should be free to do so. The same thing happened to car companies and now everybody agrees it was for the better, making big tech comply with the same rules is past due. The hilarious part is that Apple complained about the same things when Microsoft was the dominant player, displaying their hypocrisy in play sight.