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> The restaurants’ productivity growth rates are strongly correlated, however, with reductions in the amount of time their customers spend in the establishments

> The restaurants’ productivity growth rates are strongly correlated, however, with reductions in the amount of time their customers spend in the establishments, particularly with a rising share of customers spending 10 minutes or less. The frequency of such ‘take-out’ customers rose considerably during COVID, even at fast food restaurants, and never went back down. The magnitude of the restaurant-level relationship between productivity and customer dwell time, if applied to the aggregate decrease in dwell time, can explain almost all of the aggregate productivity increase in our sample. One restaurant near me ditched its dine-in service entirely during COVID. They never went back; the dining area is now some odd mix of storage/prep/work area, and they're still take-out only. Which is a bit sad; the dine-in area was a pretty cozy experience, and you'd get free tea with the meal. (It was a Japanese restaurant.)

tmpz22 2y ago
Just look at the furniture in American restaurants - cheap, plastic, and uncomfortable, even in high priced restaurants. I empathize with the economic predicament of restauranteurs but I'll continue to frequent establishments with better comfort features especially because the prices are high no matter where you go. Why pay $25 rushed sloppy meal when you could pay $30 for a better meal, in a better setting, and resulting in a better (earned!) tip.
- tw04 2y ago
  >Just look at the furniture in American restaurants - cheap, plastic, and uncomfortable, even in high priced restaurants. Seriously, where are you eating? Nothing remotely resembling "high end" anywhere near me uses plastic furniture. It's all well-padded wood. From steak restaurants to ramen to pizza, I can't name a single place I go to that's plastic other than the typical fast food joints.
  - satvikpendem 2y ago
    I agree, I don't recall seeing plastic in any sit-down restaurants.
    - dylan604 2y ago
      I guess we need to define sit-down restaurants. Fast-food places with sit-down available typically has plastic seating. I know that the Chick-fil-a and McDonalds in the area do. Some of the gastropub places near me have bare wooden seating. It's part of their "charm" this thread is swooning about. It's literally just a wooden picnic table, but yeah, that's so worth that extra money.
      - infecto 2y ago
        Do we really need to define it? In America and Britain a sit down restaurant is defined as one where you are seated by a host and order via waitstaff.
        dylan604 2y ago
        I guess we do, because I am not familiar with that specific definition What about those "sit down" places where you load up a QR code, order from that site, pay from that site, but have a server bring your food? are they still a "sit down" place?
        shigawire 2y ago
        Most would say no I'd guess in the US. To me "sit down" implies you are seated by a host and waited on.
        dylan604 2y ago
        So a sit-down restaurant was a sit-down restaurant pre-COVID, then became not a sit-down restaurant during COVID just because the style of waiting/serving became different. That's a tilted definition
        infecto 2y ago
        You seem to be trying to pick at words needlessly. Why does Covid matter now?
  - Izkata 2y ago
    There is an in-between, log cabin themed restaurants that have wooden benches and chairs without padding. They're not fancy in any way, but they're not fast food either. Granted they're not very common.
- lastofthemojito 2y ago
  Fun fact, there's no N in restaurateur: https://www.ciachef.edu/blog/what-happened-to-the-n-in-restaurateur/ https://www.ciachef.edu/blog/what-happened-to-the-n-in-resta...
  - bmandale 2y ago
    >restauranteurs >Plural form of restauranteur >noun >Alternative form of restaurateur. odd
satvikpendem 2y ago
Ghost restaurants, essentially. Incidentally, I wonder what Travis Kalanick and his company CloudKitchens is up to now that he doesn't run Uber anymore.
- contingencies 2y ago
  Basically it seems after expanding to >30 countries then realizing COVID growth would not continue, rationalizing operations, and figuring out the model of ghost kitchens is limited in growth potential with significant customer and platform backlash TK's been trying to automate the production side using the "former self driving team" of Uber at a Cloud Kitchen subsidiary called Lab37. https://www.lab37.us/ https://www.lab37.us/ However, the (2023) pictures of their system show they are not very advanced, and news appears to have halted. Why am I monitoring this? I personally spent 9 years actually doing mechatronic R&D in the food prep, packaging and logistics automation space in China with more aggressive footprint and automation goals and am currently raising for US based go to market on a far higher density platform that sidesteps the last mile delivery providers entirely. Email in profile.
  - boppo1 2y ago
    How'd that go in China? Robot-burger flipping always seemed cool. With the level of automation they otherwise employ, why isn't McDonald's doing it yet?
    - tguedes 2y ago
      My understanding is that it's basically a cost benefit calculation where it would cost nearly as much or even more than a worker because of the mechanical repair cost over time and a restaurant still wouldn't be able to automate the entire production flow from take burger out of freezer -> package it up, so there isn't much benefit. Also, having all the burger variants McDonalds sells also doesn't make this easy.
    - contingencies 2y ago
      Value wise, China for mechatronic R&D is awesome. There's nowhere better on earth. It's the other stuff - legals, regulatory, HR, schools, etc. that's a PITA. Re. McD's (actually ~15 years ago I used to work with the husband of the head of Europe but never discussed the business) - don't think their risk model has 'operational efficiency' high on the agenda. Mostly risk is outsourced to franchisees. They are so big they can just move really slowly and nobody gets fired. When competitors do something, they copy it and see if it works, recent eg. CosMc's https://www.qsrmagazine.com/story/mcdonalds-unveils-cosmcs-its-answer-to-the-growing-beverage-segment/ https://www.qsrmagazine.com/story/mcdonalds-unveils-cosmcs-i... Fundamentally - are we all going to be eating from robots real soon now? Absolutely, yes. But they won't look like 'Flippy' or Creator. They'll just be infrastructure - familiar features of the public environment as common as an electrical socket, garden tap, or street sign. You'll press a button on your own device, and either the results will come to you or you'll take a short walk. Yes, that means they have to be small, highly reliable, and self-managing. Nobody (else) has this yet. We're there. But the stock tip of this post is - current era last mile players are dead men walking. They have no means to transition to a significant position given pending commercial drone deregulation. The players set to clean up must be vertically integrated and provide both production and delivery (that's us) or have exceptional cycle time confidence and perfect autonomous drone integration with agreed standards to unknown airframes (sketchy proposition).
j_timberlake 2y ago
The timing is perfect for drone delivery to make a big impact here. Meals could arrive fast enough to stay hot, so the quality of the food goes up while reducing delivery times too. I don't get why companies can't figure out how to make this profitable.
- 6stringmerc 2y ago
  Because drones are noisy and irritating in reality and nobody wants them flying around their neighborhood and they don’t scale and they can potentially scare animals and and and…
  - randerson 2y ago
    And they can't press buttons in the elevator. I don't think any delivery service will take off in a city if people have to leave their apartments.
    - ekianjo 2y ago
      Maybe we will end up with a mix of drones for places where we can reach by air, and robot operators to deliver other packages when human interfaces are what you have to deal with.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - Scoundreller 2y ago
      Uhhhh, balconies? Reach out of an open window like a reverse drive-through?
      - recursivecaveat 2y ago
        I think you'd have to have nerves of steel as a company to try either of those maneuvers. The wind can be unpredictable so close to a structure, it is a cramped environment filled with objects and materials you can't predict, even a meal for 2 can be kindof bulky (doubly so bc it has to be packed well enough to be airworthy), the load might shift internally, and if you screw up there's a good chance a drone goes plummeting 20 stories down onto a crowded sidewalk.
pyuser583 2y ago
On the flip side, many bars and restaurants are throwing lots of attention to entertainment and in-person experiences. It’s a lot easier to find in person entertainment.
- lurk2 2y ago
  Do you mean like Chuck E. Cheese and Dave and Buster’s?
  - jgalt212 2y ago
    Before when my children were too young for iPhones, they loved Buffalo Wild Wings because they gave all the kids devices to play with. I am surprised Bill Burr did not address this phenomenon at all. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuRSVUWXA0s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuRSVUWXA0s
claudeomusic 2y ago
This sounds too similar not to be - Fukada?
msravi 2y ago
In India, these are called "cloud kitchens." A single cloud kitchen could be listed on a food delivery app under multiple brands - one brand for chinese cuisine, one for italian, etc.
- baxtr 2y ago
  Interesting. In many industries there are contract manufacturers that produce products for many different brands.
- ggzzzzzz55 2y ago
  It's 'ghost kitchen' in the US, but that's not what gp is describing.
  - pests 2y ago
    Might also be influenced by CloudKitchens, a company founded by the Uber guy. I’ve heard them called both tho.
- ForOldHack 2y ago
  There are 'cloud kitchens' im California that have 30 to 40 "kitchens" at the same address, different apps. The largest on just has a double stove and cooks meat, side by side as the most kitchy vegitarian meals. The two roast beef sandwiches cost less than the salad, but the delivery driver could not hand us the food on premises. We walked outside and we're handed the meals. ( The vegitarian salad was in a separate bag ).
- DrScientist 2y ago
  Dark kitchens in the UK.
EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 2y ago
I noticed that food became much more standardized and similar at different places, maybe they are taking a page from McDonald's book and using some kind of a centralized model, where cooks at the restaurant just microwave and plate the prepared ingredients.
- ravetcofx 2y ago
  This is yet another reason to stop supporting chains and go to locally owned independent restaurants. Good food made with usually more passion and care with variety and quality ingredients.
jajko 2y ago
Hmm, did they lower their price correspondingly, at least compared to competition? Because I don't go to restaurants to just eat, albeit fine food, I go for whole experience, environment. Something clicks in each human brain and we have this bubble of different vibes, for lack of better words. Plus social aspects. Same reason alcoholics or anybody else still go to bars in droves, despite being able to just buy same alcohol in stores for fraction of the price. That's why I pay restaurant prices for food that often costs much less in take aways or premade in stores. Michelin * are different but again the ambience is top priority there too, you won't get the star just for stellar food.
- ThePowerOfFuet 2y ago
  >Michelin * are different but again the ambience is top priority there too, you won't get the star just for stellar food. Au contraire: >A Michelin Star is awarded for the food on the plate – nothing else. The style of a restaurant and its degree of formality or informality have no bearing whatsoever on the award. https://guide.michelin.com/us/en/article/features/what-is-a-michelin-star https://guide.michelin.com/us/en/article/features/what-is-a-...
Mountain_Skies 2y ago
Several fast food restaurants in my town tried to keep their dining rooms closed well beyond the health emergency. They were reminded by the town that their business licenses depended on them having dine in service. If they wanted to be drive thru and pick up only, they'd need to convert to a different business license, including a new traffic study and payment of road impact fees. They reopened the dining rooms instead. A couple of Taco Bell locations tried to game this by having dining room hours that they didn't honor. Not sure if someone complained to the town or Taco Bell corporate but one day the dining room hours suddenly expanded and AFAIK, were no longer unreliable.
- mjevans 2y ago
  Reminds me; I have a SERIOUS gripe about restaurants closing before their posted hours end. I respect the need to have a 'last order' time, and __if they don't list it__ , it isn't unreasonable to assume that's the final time on the door. What if I want to walk in for takeout because I HATE using the drive through? (I do hate that, far less consistent food, no chance to verify it's made right.) I do respect restaurants that list a separate 'final order' time and 'everyone should be out' time, that's good communication.
w0m 2y ago
Same with my favorite local Thai place. I still order from there ~monthly as it's great; but I miss the lunch option.

tmpz22 2y ago

Just look at the furniture in American restaurants - cheap, plastic, and uncomfortable, even in high priced restaurants. I empathize with the economic predicament of restauranteurs but I'll continue to frequent establishments with better comfort features especially because the prices are high no matter where you go. Why pay $25 rushed sloppy meal when you could pay $30 for a better meal, in a better setting, and resulting in a better (earned!) tip.

tw04 2y ago
>Just look at the furniture in American restaurants - cheap, plastic, and uncomfortable, even in high priced restaurants. Seriously, where are you eating? Nothing remotely resembling "high end" anywhere near me uses plastic furniture. It's all well-padded wood. From steak restaurants to ramen to pizza, I can't name a single place I go to that's plastic other than the typical fast food joints.
- satvikpendem 2y ago
  I agree, I don't recall seeing plastic in any sit-down restaurants.
  - dylan604 2y ago
    I guess we need to define sit-down restaurants. Fast-food places with sit-down available typically has plastic seating. I know that the Chick-fil-a and McDonalds in the area do. Some of the gastropub places near me have bare wooden seating. It's part of their "charm" this thread is swooning about. It's literally just a wooden picnic table, but yeah, that's so worth that extra money.
    - infecto 2y ago
      Do we really need to define it? In America and Britain a sit down restaurant is defined as one where you are seated by a host and order via waitstaff.
      - dylan604 2y ago
        I guess we do, because I am not familiar with that specific definition What about those "sit down" places where you load up a QR code, order from that site, pay from that site, but have a server bring your food? are they still a "sit down" place?
        shigawire 2y ago
        Most would say no I'd guess in the US. To me "sit down" implies you are seated by a host and waited on.
        dylan604 2y ago
        So a sit-down restaurant was a sit-down restaurant pre-COVID, then became not a sit-down restaurant during COVID just because the style of waiting/serving became different. That's a tilted definition
        infecto 2y ago
        You seem to be trying to pick at words needlessly. Why does Covid matter now?
- Izkata 2y ago
  There is an in-between, log cabin themed restaurants that have wooden benches and chairs without padding. They're not fancy in any way, but they're not fast food either. Granted they're not very common.
lastofthemojito 2y ago
Fun fact, there's no N in restaurateur: https://www.ciachef.edu/blog/what-happened-to-the-n-in-restaurateur/ https://www.ciachef.edu/blog/what-happened-to-the-n-in-resta...
- bmandale 2y ago
  >restauranteurs >Plural form of restauranteur >noun >Alternative form of restaurateur. odd

satvikpendem 2y ago

Ghost restaurants, essentially. Incidentally, I wonder what Travis Kalanick and his company CloudKitchens is up to now that he doesn't run Uber anymore.

contingencies 2y ago
Basically it seems after expanding to >30 countries then realizing COVID growth would not continue, rationalizing operations, and figuring out the model of ghost kitchens is limited in growth potential with significant customer and platform backlash TK's been trying to automate the production side using the "former self driving team" of Uber at a Cloud Kitchen subsidiary called Lab37. https://www.lab37.us/ https://www.lab37.us/ However, the (2023) pictures of their system show they are not very advanced, and news appears to have halted. Why am I monitoring this? I personally spent 9 years actually doing mechatronic R&D in the food prep, packaging and logistics automation space in China with more aggressive footprint and automation goals and am currently raising for US based go to market on a far higher density platform that sidesteps the last mile delivery providers entirely. Email in profile.
- boppo1 2y ago
  How'd that go in China? Robot-burger flipping always seemed cool. With the level of automation they otherwise employ, why isn't McDonald's doing it yet?
  - tguedes 2y ago
    My understanding is that it's basically a cost benefit calculation where it would cost nearly as much or even more than a worker because of the mechanical repair cost over time and a restaurant still wouldn't be able to automate the entire production flow from take burger out of freezer -> package it up, so there isn't much benefit. Also, having all the burger variants McDonalds sells also doesn't make this easy.
  - contingencies 2y ago
    Value wise, China for mechatronic R&D is awesome. There's nowhere better on earth. It's the other stuff - legals, regulatory, HR, schools, etc. that's a PITA. Re. McD's (actually ~15 years ago I used to work with the husband of the head of Europe but never discussed the business) - don't think their risk model has 'operational efficiency' high on the agenda. Mostly risk is outsourced to franchisees. They are so big they can just move really slowly and nobody gets fired. When competitors do something, they copy it and see if it works, recent eg. CosMc's https://www.qsrmagazine.com/story/mcdonalds-unveils-cosmcs-its-answer-to-the-growing-beverage-segment/ https://www.qsrmagazine.com/story/mcdonalds-unveils-cosmcs-i... Fundamentally - are we all going to be eating from robots real soon now? Absolutely, yes. But they won't look like 'Flippy' or Creator. They'll just be infrastructure - familiar features of the public environment as common as an electrical socket, garden tap, or street sign. You'll press a button on your own device, and either the results will come to you or you'll take a short walk. Yes, that means they have to be small, highly reliable, and self-managing. Nobody (else) has this yet. We're there. But the stock tip of this post is - current era last mile players are dead men walking. They have no means to transition to a significant position given pending commercial drone deregulation. The players set to clean up must be vertically integrated and provide both production and delivery (that's us) or have exceptional cycle time confidence and perfect autonomous drone integration with agreed standards to unknown airframes (sketchy proposition).

j_timberlake 2y ago

The timing is perfect for drone delivery to make a big impact here. Meals could arrive fast enough to stay hot, so the quality of the food goes up while reducing delivery times too. I don't get why companies can't figure out how to make this profitable.

6stringmerc 2y ago
Because drones are noisy and irritating in reality and nobody wants them flying around their neighborhood and they don’t scale and they can potentially scare animals and and and…
- randerson 2y ago
  And they can't press buttons in the elevator. I don't think any delivery service will take off in a city if people have to leave their apartments.
  - ekianjo 2y ago
    Maybe we will end up with a mix of drones for places where we can reach by air, and robot operators to deliver other packages when human interfaces are what you have to deal with.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - Scoundreller 2y ago
    Uhhhh, balconies? Reach out of an open window like a reverse drive-through?
    - recursivecaveat 2y ago
      I think you'd have to have nerves of steel as a company to try either of those maneuvers. The wind can be unpredictable so close to a structure, it is a cramped environment filled with objects and materials you can't predict, even a meal for 2 can be kindof bulky (doubly so bc it has to be packed well enough to be airworthy), the load might shift internally, and if you screw up there's a good chance a drone goes plummeting 20 stories down onto a crowded sidewalk.

pyuser583 2y ago

On the flip side, many bars and restaurants are throwing lots of attention to entertainment and in-person experiences. It’s a lot easier to find in person entertainment.

lurk2 2y ago
Do you mean like Chuck E. Cheese and Dave and Buster’s?
- jgalt212 2y ago
  Before when my children were too young for iPhones, they loved Buffalo Wild Wings because they gave all the kids devices to play with. I am surprised Bill Burr did not address this phenomenon at all. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuRSVUWXA0s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuRSVUWXA0s

claudeomusic 2y ago

This sounds too similar not to be - Fukada?

msravi 2y ago

In India, these are called "cloud kitchens." A single cloud kitchen could be listed on a food delivery app under multiple brands - one brand for chinese cuisine, one for italian, etc.

baxtr 2y ago
Interesting. In many industries there are contract manufacturers that produce products for many different brands.
ggzzzzzz55 2y ago
It's 'ghost kitchen' in the US, but that's not what gp is describing.
- pests 2y ago
  Might also be influenced by CloudKitchens, a company founded by the Uber guy. I’ve heard them called both tho.
ForOldHack 2y ago
There are 'cloud kitchens' im California that have 30 to 40 "kitchens" at the same address, different apps. The largest on just has a double stove and cooks meat, side by side as the most kitchy vegitarian meals. The two roast beef sandwiches cost less than the salad, but the delivery driver could not hand us the food on premises. We walked outside and we're handed the meals. ( The vegitarian salad was in a separate bag ).
DrScientist 2y ago
Dark kitchens in the UK.

EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 2y ago

I noticed that food became much more standardized and similar at different places, maybe they are taking a page from McDonald's book and using some kind of a centralized model, where cooks at the restaurant just microwave and plate the prepared ingredients.

ravetcofx 2y ago
This is yet another reason to stop supporting chains and go to locally owned independent restaurants. Good food made with usually more passion and care with variety and quality ingredients.

jajko 2y ago

Hmm, did they lower their price correspondingly, at least compared to competition? Because I don't go to restaurants to just eat, albeit fine food, I go for whole experience, environment. Something clicks in each human brain and we have this bubble of different vibes, for lack of better words. Plus social aspects. Same reason alcoholics or anybody else still go to bars in droves, despite being able to just buy same alcohol in stores for fraction of the price. That's why I pay restaurant prices for food that often costs much less in take aways or premade in stores. Michelin * are different but again the ambience is top priority there too, you won't get the star just for stellar food.

ThePowerOfFuet 2y ago
>Michelin * are different but again the ambience is top priority there too, you won't get the star just for stellar food. Au contraire: >A Michelin Star is awarded for the food on the plate – nothing else. The style of a restaurant and its degree of formality or informality have no bearing whatsoever on the award. https://guide.michelin.com/us/en/article/features/what-is-a-michelin-star https://guide.michelin.com/us/en/article/features/what-is-a-...

Mountain_Skies 2y ago

Several fast food restaurants in my town tried to keep their dining rooms closed well beyond the health emergency. They were reminded by the town that their business licenses depended on them having dine in service. If they wanted to be drive thru and pick up only, they'd need to convert to a different business license, including a new traffic study and payment of road impact fees. They reopened the dining rooms instead. A couple of Taco Bell locations tried to game this by having dining room hours that they didn't honor. Not sure if someone complained to the town or Taco Bell corporate but one day the dining room hours suddenly expanded and AFAIK, were no longer unreliable.

mjevans 2y ago
Reminds me; I have a SERIOUS gripe about restaurants closing before their posted hours end. I respect the need to have a 'last order' time, and __if they don't list it__ , it isn't unreasonable to assume that's the final time on the door. What if I want to walk in for takeout because I HATE using the drive through? (I do hate that, far less consistent food, no chance to verify it's made right.) I do respect restaurants that list a separate 'final order' time and 'everyone should be out' time, that's good communication.

w0m 2y ago

Same with my favorite local Thai place. I still order from there ~monthly as it's great; but I miss the lunch option.