10 ms·
US added to international watchlist for rapid decline in civic freedoms
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- isaacremuant 2y ago[dead]
- brickfaced 2y ago[flagged]
- hedora 2y agoRegarding the Washington Post: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/16/business/media/the-washington-post-new-mission.html https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/16/business/media/the-washin...
- brickfaced 2y agoWhat does the editorial decision of a newspaper's owner, which runs counter to the unconcealed biases of many who remain gainfully employed at the paper, have to do with legal freedoms of association and expression?
- selimthegrim 2y agoJust out of curiosity how much do you happen to know about what civil rights tier Pakistan is on?
- brickfaced 2y agoI'm familiar with their blasphemy laws for a start. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blasphemy_in_Pakistan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blasphemy_in_Pakistan
- selimthegrim 2y agoMy family is intimately familiar with them but I guess the larger point I was making is that the trends in the US have been following the Pakistani arc for quite a while. There’s not really a one-to-one comparison with the blasphemy laws. Probably a better comparison would be like child pornography, or something
- brickfaced 2y agoCan describe in detail how you, a Pakistani, think America should relax its child pornography laws?
- selimthegrim 2y agoI’m an American of Pak origin. My point was that blasphemers there (PK) are treated judicially and socially like child pornographers here when plenty of actual child porn over there goes unpunished. Asking people to amend those laws over there gets the exact same reaction you just had.
- SpicyLemonZest 2y agoQuite a lot. There was a big news story in 2023, which I followed pretty closely, where a popular ex-PM was ambushed in a courthouse by military forces before being arrested, tried, and imprisoned. He and his supporters believe, I think reasonably, that Pakistan should be understood as being in a state of undeclared martial law.
- OgsyedIE 2y agoI have no problem with the comparison. DRC, Pakistan and Serbia are moderately good on net, with most having a good life and a minority being absolutely screwed. The idea that their average level of quality isn't similar to America's after adjusting for purchasing power is an insult to the many people living in them who are striving for good with a remarkable degree of success. There are a great many academic data sources justifying this in all cases but if you still disfavour them and would be swayed by an informal documentary instead, I can recommend the Miracle of Pakistani Tekken as the best short-form documentary on how their people are as well-meaning as you or I: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2SQgjYmVYY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2SQgjYmVYY . [edit] I mixed up the DRC with it's northern neighbour, the RoC. The RoC is an adequate place but the DRC is a hellhole that doesn't belong on this list.
- School-Cotton 2y agoYou’ve got to be kidding. The DRC is an unfree authoritarian state and one of the poorest countries in the world to boot. It’s in a completely different tier from Serbia.
- OgsyedIE 2y agoYou mean the other Congo (RoC). DRC refers to the smaller, moderately good one that isn't currently being invaded by the Rwandan army.
- BrenBarn 2y agoNo, that's backwards. DRC is the big one, RoC is the small one.
- OgsyedIE 2y agoI feel so incredibly embarrassed at my mistake here and understand the outrage. The DRC is two, maybe three orders of magnitude below Serbia in living standards and civil liberties and is no basis for comparison.
- SpicyLemonZest 2y agoIf it's true that "criminal agitators on the left" are causing chaos and intimidating voters with no consequence, doesn't that support rather than refute the point that the US is experiencing a rapid decline in civic freedoms? The watchlist the source article reports is describing a derivative; if you go to their site, they agree with your intuition that Pakistan is in a substantially worse civil rights tier than the US.
- selimthegrim 2y agoYes exactly I agree with you about the rate of change.
- _def 2y agoIf you don't pay attention now it will end up there though if the course continues, hence the watchlist.
- text0404 2y agoThe existence of violence doesn't mean that civic rights aren't deteriorating. In fact, it's an indicator. Washington Post is owned by a billionaire who has gutted the newsroom and said that only pro-capitalist stances will be allowed. Reddit has recently come out with a ban on literally the word "Luigi", and has stated that you can be banned simply for upvoting comments which they deem promote violence (the criteria for this are vague). The Hacker News comments sections are usually filled with apologists for Musk and Trump, and only recently have there been more comments pushing back on the "they're saving democracy" narrative. We're entering a new era of McCarthyism as pro-Palestine activists are being targeted for expulsion and deportation. Trump has floated the idea of moving US citizens to prisons outside of the country. Musk called unmasking DOGE employees "illegal." > criminal agitators on the left are intimidating voters on the right Sure. https://www.politico.com/news/2024/07/04/leader-of-the-pro-trump-project-2025-suggests-there-will-be-a-new-american-revolution-00166583 https://www.politico.com/news/2024/07/04/leader-of-the-pro-t...
- brickfaced 2y ago[flagged]
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- text0404 2y agoOf course you can't actually engage with the substance of my argument, so you settle for pedantry. Tells me all I need to know.
- anon291 2y agoWashington Post's editorializing is a free speech matter and has nothing to do with the first amendment, since it's a private actor, which is the story we were all told during covid and the Floyd riots.
- text0404 2y agoWhich wouldn't be as concerning if he hadn't gutted the newsroom first.
- lordofgibbons 2y ago> The decision to add the US to the first 2025 watchlist was made in response to what the group described as the “Trump administration’s assault on democratic norms and global cooperation”. > The group cited several of the administration’s actions such as the mass termination of federal employees, the appointment of Trump loyalists in key government positions, the withdrawal from international efforts such as the World Health Organization and the UN Human Rights Council, the freezing of federal and foreign aid and the attempted dismantling of USAid. > The organization warned that these decisions “will likely impact civic freedoms and reverse hard-won human rights gains around the world”. Okay, so there's nothing to do with actual civil freedoms. I dislike orange man as much as the next person, but this article is garbage.
- bhouston 2y agoI heard about this today, things are weird in the US as this guy has a green card but it was being revoked for speech the government didn't like and apparently not anything criminal: https://x.com/TheFIREorg/status/1898841858983239814 https://x.com/TheFIREorg/status/1898841858983239814 More details: https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-authorities-arrest-palestinian-student-protester-columbia-university-students-2025-03-09/ https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-authorities-arrest-pales... and https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/3/9/mahmoud-khalil-student-leader-of-columbia-protests-arrested https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/3/9/mahmoud-khalil-stude... (This last article mentions his green card apparently being revoked.)
- anon291 2y ago[flagged]
- cycomanic 2y agoThe brain gymnastics of Trump supporters arr absolutely amazing, one hand they could stop shouting freedom of speech everytime someone (a private entity) didn't allow them to spew racism on their platform, on the other hand deporting (the government) someone for their political views is fine because they are a security threat and deportation isn't really punishment (being banned on a social media platform on the other hand...). At least be honest and say "I don't care because it's speech I disagree with"
- the_gastropod 2y agoI saw this comment on Bluesky yesterday, and it really resonated with me after watching a "totally moderate" conservative friend incrementally tolerate more and more obviously evil things: > A conservative will pretend to believe whatever they think is necessary to get to their only goal: hurting you. That is the sum total of how they function. Pretending they have morals, ethics, or beliefs actively plays into their hands. "Owning the libs" is pretty much the only thing needed to unite them.
- kevingadd 2y ago
- drekipus 2y agoI'm always sceptical about both sides of these sorts of "watchlists" and "violations" because it is always dependant on who's who. A trivial example: is criticism of Israel fair or antisemitism? I would imagine the current US "crackdown on antisemitism" being the cause of being added to the watchlist, which is fair in my opinion I don't see how terminating employees or ending foreign aid being a decline in Civic freedoms
- AnyTimeTraveler 2y agoAnd what about the active hostilities towards trans people, who often can't get passports anymore (I personally know one person who has this problem) and can't update their names and gender entries anymore. What about the demolishing of government agencies that DOGE is trying (and sometimes succeding) in? You call it "termination of employees", but don't seem to consider that they tried to fire jugdes who restrained their power. This looks to me like a plain powergrab. I hope I don't need to tell you where something like this leads, but I am certain it's not going to be democratic or respectful of civic freedoms. As a non-straight non-binary (neither cis-male or -female) person, the US is currently just about the last place I want to be. If the current trend continues, then I genuinely fear for the lives of some of my friends.
- braincat31415 2y ago[flagged]
- Xelynega 2y ago> and transgenders are to blame for pushing things too far What did I just read? Do you honestly believe that <0.1% of the population is "taking things too far" and need rights taken away from them. Is that something you actually believe, and if so how do you justify it to yourself? > To give you an example, that "We’re here, we’re queer, we’re coming for your children" chant in NYC was intolerable. Sure, but is a measured response to "one small group saying something edgy at one rally" -> "take away their rights"? I don't think so, but I'd be interested to hear why you think so.
- anon291 2y ago[flagged]
- someotherperson 2y agoAlmost as if book burning isn’t that big of a right in the grand scheme of things. > America is in a league of its own when it comes to speech Try boycotting Israel, you might go to jail or lose your green card for speaking out about it. American free speech (in the way that matters, not in the way of theater) is under threat and has been with every successive government for quite a long time.
- School-Cotton 2y agoWho has gone to jail for boycotting Israel in the US?
- MiiMe19 2y agoEvery single person at my college and online won't shut up for 10 seconds about boycotting Israel, I think they are fine.
- hayst4ck 2y agoIt's pretty easy to judge the US for what is happening right now, we certainly deserve it, but the decline of civic freedoms and liberalism is a global phenomenon. We are experiencing a global assault on truth because truth provides a foundation on which to judge those in power. Social media is the powerful's most potent weapon against truth. When social media combines with privatized intelligence companies, it creates a tool that can be used to divide and conquer societies, turning one half of the people against the other, deputizing the ignorant or vulnerable to fight for despots.
- OgsyedIE 2y agoOne thing I wonder, is how much of it is simply attributable to the demographic transition that happens when a society urbanizes. When birth rates start to drop the over-65s start getting more of a vote share than they've ever had before.
- traject_ 2y agoBut that belies the real contention of what exactly is the truth? What is even more fundamental that has been lost is trust in nation and institutions due to a growing values divide. We must first trust before we can accept in good faith. Perhaps in some sense we should be thankful that we now have societies robust enough that even if major institutions lose legitimacy with half the population we don't get a civil war.
- squigz 2y ago> We are experiencing a global assault on truth Are we though? Can you convince me of that, as a non-American?
- energy123 2y agoThe anti-intellectual fascist Georgescu arising from obscurity to a near winning position in Romania due to social media should be evidence enough. Trumpism is a cause in itself, but it's also a symptom of a deeper cause that is afflicting more than only the United States. The unintended consequence of social media, especially profit-driven social media infested with troll farms and bots from various governments (including China, Russia, US, Iran, Israel, to name but a few countries that have been caught), is the destruction of trust and community[0]. [0] https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/this-thing-will-fail https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/this-thing-will-fail
- rendx 2y ago“The fundamental weakness of Western civilization is empathy. The empathy exploit—they’re exploiting a bug in western civilization, which is the empathy response” -- Elon Musk No more questions.
- tomrod 2y agoThe paradox of tolerance, exploited.
- bhouston 2y agoHuh? What you do mean by this? Are you advocating for less empathy? Towards whom?
- rendx 2y agoI am quoting an obviously broken and severely traumatized person in power, in the context of ongoing and upcoming civic freedoms decline.
- OgsyedIE 2y agoThere isn't enough evidence to speculate on his mental state IMO, but he is a prescribed ketamine user which means there are a plethora of possible causes.
- ranger_danger 2y agoI would argue there is quite an abundance of evidence that is very telling of his mental state.
- rendx 2y ago"Musk has fathered fourteen children, one of whom died as an infant. He had six children with his first wife, Canadian author Justine Wilson, who he met while attending Queen's University in Ontario, Canada; they married in 2000. In 2002, their first child Nevada Musk died of sudden infant death syndrome at the age of 10 weeks." "One of world’s richest man Elon Musk’s kids does not want to be related to their biological father anymore. Born a boy, Xavier Alexander Musk, has filed a plea seeking a change in her name in accordance with her new gender identity. Xavier had filed the petition seeking both a name change and a new birth certificate that reflects her new gender identity with the Los Angeles County Superior Court in Santa Monica in April 2022. The reason for the name change in the documents is mentioned as “Gender Identity and the fact that I no longer live with or wish to be related to my biological father in any way, shape or form.”" "Elon’s father Errol Musk fathered two children with his former stepdaughter, Jana Bezuidenhout, who is 41 years his junior." "n a recent podcast interview, Errol Musk said his son Elon had not “been a good dad” to his children." “He was such a terrible human being,” Elon, 46, told the magazine. “You have no idea.” Elon added: “My dad will have a carefully thought-out plan of evil… He will plan evil.” “You have no idea about how bad. Almost every crime you can possibly think of, he has done,” Elon said, though he never went into specifics about what his father allegedly did. “Almost every evil thing you could possibly think of, he has done… It’s so terrible, you can’t believe it.” “It would certainly be accurate to say that I did not have a good childhood… It may sound good. It was not absent of good, but it was not a happy childhood. It was like misery.” "One does see a mother turning the children against the father successfully. " "It's thought Grimes is keen to move in with the mothers of Musk's other children and raise them all together in one big house, however, most recently she's hit out at her billionaire ex publicly about his parenting. "Plz respond about our child's medical crisis. I am sorry to do this publicly but it is no longer acceptable to ignore this situation. This requires immediate attention", she wrote on X. "If you don't want to talk to me can you please designate or hire someone who can so that we can move forward on solving this. This is urgent, Elon.""
- A_D_E_P_T 2y ago> Civicus, an international non-profit, puts country alongside Democratic Republic of Congo, Italy, Pakistan and Serbia I doubt it. But not for the reasons you're probably thinking. I spend most of my time in Slovenia and Croatia, but I travel to Serbia frequently as it's "in the neighborhood" and medical/dental treatment there is top-notch and much cheaper than anywhere else. I can state with absolute confidence that Serbia is one of the most freedom-loving countries in the world, and Serbs are ultra-zealous guardians of their personal freedoms. In Serbia, there are very few restrictions that impinge on one's day-to-day life, and even the laws are along the lines of recommendations. You can buy any prescription drug OTC; you can smoke in just about any restaurant; you can send your 10-year-old son to the cornerstore to buy you a bottle of whisky. You can also speak out against the government -- and quite loudly, at that -- just as people have been doing over recent weeks/months: > https://apnews.com/article/serbia-students-protest-vucic-canopy-collapse-belgrade-e5cb4c41543308844628d11ea86920b9 https://apnews.com/article/serbia-students-protest-vucic-can... I can think of nothing that's permissible in the USA or UK that's not possible in Serbia. (But I can think of many things that are possible in Serbia yet illegal or impossible in the UK or US!) All things considered, it feels much more free than any part of the USA. Serbian cops are friendly, there's no ubiquitous middleman grifting or gatekeeping, and one is basically free to do and say what one likes.
- blibble 2y ago> I can think of nothing that's permissible in the USA or UK that's not possible in Serbia. how about declaring yourself Kosovan?
- A_D_E_P_T 2y agoHow exactly, practically speaking? If you just walk around and tell people that you're a Kosovan, or post about it online, they'll think you're either a militant/reactionary agitator or a lunatic. You might get some dirty looks, but you're not going to get thrown into prison. If you're talking about taking real political action, sure, that would be a bad idea. But I can think of a lot of similar things (effectively things that aim to destabilize the government or foment civil unrest) that are similarly illegal in places like Germany/UK/etc.
- blindriver 2y ago[flagged]
- MiiMe19 2y agoIt all comes back to money
- threeseed 2y agoWhen I look through the Civicus Annual Report: https://www.civicus.org/documents/reports-and-publications/annual-reports/annual-report-2023-2024.pdf https://www.civicus.org/documents/reports-and-publications/a... USAID is not listed amongst the top 13 donors. In fact not seen any evidence it was funded by USAID at all.
- blindriver 2y agoUSAID does most of its funding through NGOs. IF you search you'll see plenty of partnerships between USAID and Civicus.
- NewJazz 2y agoOr the fact that Trump defunded the organization that monitors for human rights violations is predictable... Almost like it was written down in a plan for a project somewhere...
- benbojangles 2y agoBradford is the UK's City of Culture
- blackeyeblitzar 2y agoRapid decline? Relative to whom? Virtually all other countries have far less respect for free speech.
- threeseed 2y agoRelative to itself. And there is far more to civic freedom than freedom of speech.
- blackeyeblitzar 2y agoNothing has changed about civic freedoms in the US with the new administration. If you read the article, their reasons are a bunch of things that have NOTHING to do with civic freedoms. It cites reducing the size of the federal workforce for example. This is just a political activist group that is falsely pitched as some kind of civic freedoms watchlist. On the other hand the EU has serious issues with civic freedoms - censorship, suppression of political parties, cancelling elections with results they don’t like, and more. But I’m sure this group doesn’t mind those actual civic freedom issues.
- text0404 2y agoMass government purges - including unlawfully firing people who oversee the legality of government actions - is an indicator of deteriorating civic freedoms as institutions meant for oversight and public services are dismantled.
- marcusverus 2y agoJournalism is the art of massaging a press release (from a politically motivated organization that nobody has ever heard of and which doesn't actually do anything) into a statement of fact. The average person (who has a seventh-grade reading level, mind you) has absolutely no defense against this sort of low-effort appeal to "authority". TL;DR: It's nonsense. They're manufacturing dissent.
- Xelynega 2y ago> Virtually all other countries have far less respect for free speech. Citation needed?(and maybe a refresher on Chomsky's propaganda model)
- Acrobatic_Road 2y ago[flagged]
- oxley 2y ago> Not one of these things has the least to do with civic freedoms. These things have to do with whether democracies follow the rule of law. Civic freedoms tend to go away when democracies become authoritarian regimes. > USAid didn't even exist before 1961 It was created by Congress in 1961, but destroyed by the ire of one man in 2025, without any Congressional approval. Does it feel like democracy to you?
- CivBase 2y ago> It was created by Congress in 1961, but destroyed by the ire of one man in 2025, without any Congressional approval. Does it feel like democracy to you? Are you suggesting what he did was unconstitutional? If so, Congress can (and should) absolutely impeach him for it and make him defend his actions in court. The President is not above the law. Or did Congress give the President the authority he needed to do exactly what he did? In which case, what is more democratic than a body of democratically elected represetitives voting democratically to pass a law which establishes something under the control (and disgression) of a democratically elected executive?
- EnergyAmy 2y agoHave you not been paying attention? The president is above the law according to the current Supreme Court, and Congress is stuffed full of sycophants that will never impeach him.
- CivBase 2y agoApparently I'm not paying attention because I seem to have missed that Supreme Court ruling. Can you link it for me? If our democratically elected representatives in Congress will not impeach the President, then they are evidently content with how he has performed his duties. Of course, the next Congress is free to have a different opinion and proceed with an impeachment. They can even impeach Supreme Court justices who have failed in their duties. If that is what you want, I suggest you vote in accordance with that in the 2026 election. Also, impeachment is not the only mechanism which members of Congress can use to hold the President accountable. They are free to try and convict the President of criminal misconduct in court.
- ein0p 2y ago[flagged]
- threeseed 2y agoCivicus annual report is here: https://www.civicus.org/documents/reports-and-publications/annual-reports/annual-report-2023-2024.pdf https://www.civicus.org/documents/reports-and-publications/a... Open Society Foundation contributed 4% of their funding last year.
- ranger_danger 2y agoWhat is it you're wanting people to take from that? Personally I agree with the report.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- m2024 2y ago[dead]