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Weird how these accidents has started happening so often... The European countries needs to stop being so soft.
by lawn 2y ago
Weird how these accidents has started happening so often...
The European countries needs to stop being so soft.
- dmos62 2y agoI find it funny how if you marginally, but consistently, offend a geopolitical entity (Europe), you can actually train it to reduce the limits of what it considers acceptable. Just like a dog, or a person, I guess.
- lawn 2y agoI'm a Swede and I'm mostly upset that my government isn't acting more forcefully.
- powerhugs 2y agoAs another swede, I'd be happy to se Kristersson show some backbone. But he's apparently made out of snail so that won't happen. Not condemning the aggressor over and over make us look soft, indeed.
- CountSessine 2y agoJust as an aside, I love the term, “made out of snail.” Is this a Swedish idiom?
- carlosjobim 2y agoIf that's what you're hoping for, Ukraine is very grateful for volunteers. There's a bunch of Swedes who did go there to fight. There's a bunch who are there right now. Or is it "somebody else" who has to show a backbone and take action?
- lawn 2y agoThere are other ways for regular people to support, without jumping into an actual war zone without any training (that would harm more than it helps). For example to donate to organizations that actively support the war effort or to put pressure on the politicians to do more.
- carlosjobim 2y agoYou are right that there are more ways to support. But demanding or asking that somebody else does something is not doing something. A majority of the population consider themselves to be great heroes for making symbolic gestures or for telling their friends over coffee or drinks that "somebody really should do something". But reality is reality and they have done nothing. They will never do anything voluntarily either – for any cause.
- lawn 2y agoDemanding that politicians act more forcefully, and in fact do their job, isn't "doing nothing" I'd say. They have much, much more power than regular people, so sometimes the best thing one can do is force more reaction from our politicians. And it's also working; without the amount of outcry we've had I'm sure the politicians would've done even less.
- powerhugs 2y agoI ask for our leader to condemn acts of aggression. You read it as I want more bloodshed? Some of us still live in democracies.
- carlosjobim 2y ago
- geysersam 2y agoI'd prefer they didn't act until there's actually proof what is behind it.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- bpodgursky 2y agoActually slow stress is how you build muscle. Europe is a case of being crippled by assistance, like a man who uses an electric wheelchair until his leg muscles atrophy. They've leaned on US security guarantees so long that most countries have no functioning deterrent (look up the German air force sometime if you want to be sad).
- FirmwareBurner 2y ago>Europe is a case of being crippled by assistance Good times create weak people. Weak people create hard times. Europe has past its good times phase and is hitting the reality of the hard times. The question is if it can overcome the next phase without another Adolf or war. Hard times create strong people.
- card_zero 2y agoUsually, good times create agricultural surplus, transport infrastructure, better organization and larger, healthier armies. But in the specific case of being dependant on a larger, benevolent state for protection, that gets undermined. Anyway, hard times create desperate people, not exactly strong ones. And then something about interesting times, but that's a different saying.
- simion314 2y ago>being dependant on a larger, benevolent state for protection, <benevolent> not really. we bougth a ton of USA weapons and also our soldiers died in USA started wars, it was an alliance and now USA just betrayed us , the blood and money we sacrificed was for nothing, I hope the cheap eggs from Trump satisfies MAGA idiots for this international betrayal .
- mvc 2y ago> Europe has past its good times phase and is hitting the reality of the hard times. > The question is if it can overcome the next phase without another Adolf or war. This whole thread is a joke right? The US is the one who just elevated the modern day Hitler to world leader and is now cheering him on as he collaborates with the Russia to commit genocide in Ukraine, and the Israelis to commit genocide in Gaza.
- munksbeer 2y agoThe problem is, what more can Europe do? Sanctions are already in place. What is the next step? Conflict?
- codedokode 2y agoDo sanctions work? Russia is buying things I am not going to name without issues while some European countries buy Russian LNG.
- dmos62 2y agoSanctions are partial, the shadow fleet is operating, support for Ukraine is partial, China and India are not experiencing notable repercussions for supplying Russia, Europe is buying Russian gas. There's a lot Europe could do to show that it's serious about security, without troops in Ukraine. Oh, troops and training personnel in Ukraine's rear is another one.
- barbazoo 2y agoMy guess is that this is how much they can do before seriously impacting people's cushy lives. Wouldn't want to inconvenience your population in any way, would you? /s
- Sabinus 2y agoThe leaders of free countries have the issue that if they increase the cost of living too much they'll be voted out by voters angry enough to listen to Russian agitprop. The Western narrative is very damaged especially in our own underclasses.
- maxglute 2y agoEU is just being out greyzoned by RU in this area - greyzone because under UNCLOS subsea infra regulations, RU suppose to pay for indemnities but we know that's not going to happen unless EU returns siezed RU $$$. TBH RU still has 100B+ more worth of cables to sabatoge and other shenanigans going forward in response to EU shooting firt with greyzone seizing of RU assets. People calling for blockades / shooting ships think that's worth escalating to actual kinetic war, in which case EU will simply be the relative larger loser since a 20T EU economy vs 2T RU economy has much more to lose, i.e. would be fairly easy to just fuck up EU energy / energy import infra.
- JasserInicide 2y agoChamberlain all over again...
- ssijak 2y agoWhat do you suggest?
- Trasmatta 2y agoI quite like the idea of a united EU army. It's something that's been floated quite a bit recently.
- card_zero 2y agoBy Zelensky, I think. What? I'm pretty sure he said that. Yeah, here it is: 'Army of Europe' needed to challenge Russia, says Zelensky https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cvgl27x74wpo https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cvgl27x74wpo
- datameta 2y agoYes, he spoke on it at the Munich Security Conference, to frequent applause
- Trasmatta 2y agoYes (I don't know why you were downvoted), and others, but unfortunately I find it highly unlikely to happen. Or at least, it'll only happen when it's already too late, and Russia starts steamrolling more of Europe while the US does nothing (or actively supports it - the current admin is highly pro Russia). The US is no longer a reliable ally to the EU or NATO. The EU must be able to protect itself.
- gizajob 2y agoShould European countries position military craft at 1km intervals on the surface along the route of every cable? Or do you mean they should start cutting Russian cables?
- Trasmatta 2y agoThere are many possible methods of deterrence and reciprocal action. If you do nothing, the enemy has no reason not to escalate.
- basisword 2y ago>> There are many possible methods of deterrence and reciprocal action What do you suggest?
- boredatoms 2y agoFully close the border with russia? Permanently deny any boat that makes port in russia access to EU ports, I could go on
- stackedinserter 2y agoBan, arrest or damage "shadow fleet" tankers that transport Russian oil. Control their supply chain e.g. stop selling them spare parts for stolen planes. There are many things, all the way to taking hostages, but EU needs to grow some spine to do that.
- TheSpiceIsLife 2y agoReciprocal action gives the enemy plenty of reason to escalate.
- pmontra 2y agoLack of reciprocal action is called self deterrence. Or in simpler words, it's what happens when you keep doing what the bully at school asks you to do, more and more, because he could escalate, even if you are as strong as him or stronger.
- InDubioProRubio 2y ago<BotTemplate> Foggy first sentence of agreement Nuclear Threats for deterrence Political divisive topics </BotTemplate>
- blitzar 2y agoWe should really tell the US to f' off and stop cutting our undersea cables and blowing up our undersea pipes.
- andrewmutz 2y agoDid I miss something? What pointed to the US?
- AnimalMuppet 2y agoblitzar's imagination (or sarcasm).
- llm_nerd 2y agoUndersea cable breaks have been an ongoing issue for decades. To the tune of hundreds per year. Usually it's completely accidental and sometimes just environmental (it is a pretty hostile environment). It became newsworthy and a part of the zeitgeist so every incident is heavily reported on now, making it seem like there has been a big uptick when this stuff has always been happening. As to those countries being soft, this is happening in international waters and they have been seizing ships. Not sure how much more they are supposed to do. Anti-ship missiles?
- backyardflock 2y ago[flagged]
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- OKRainbowKid 2y agoDo you have a source for that? This smells like fake news.
- datameta 2y agoHe was actually one of the presiding members (forgot their title) who was completing his term. He got emotional over the gravity of the transition. To shed tears is not a mark of weakness. It serves as that signal only for the emotionally repressed.
- lo_zamoyski 2y agoAny recommendations? Or is this a case of double secret probation[0], or putting the invisible locks on the door[1]? Frankly, the EU is guilty of neglect in this respect for years. Poland, for example, had been urging things like more energy solidarity since it joined the EU, something Germany consistently shot down or waved away. Mustard after the meal in some ways. A stronger response will require more defense investment to counter hybrid warfare. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3LzJzQ3wj4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3LzJzQ3wj4 [1] https://youtu.be/7L8UwOZRejA?si=GPvx4hZw4vGMeXkE&t=48 https://youtu.be/7L8UwOZRejA?si=GPvx4hZw4vGMeXkE&t=48