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Sweden Investigates New Cable Break Under Baltic Sea
- SiempreViernes 2y agoOwner company confirms "modest damage" to the cable that "doesn't affect the communication links". "Det är bolaget Cinia som äger kabeln som går mellan Tyskland och Finland. Bolaget bekräftar för SVT Nyheter lättare skador, som inte påverkar kommunikationsförbindelserna." https://www.svt.se/nyheter/utrikes/uppgifter-om-nytt-kabelbrott-i-ostersjon https://www.svt.se/nyheter/utrikes/uppgifter-om-nytt-kabelbr...
- eproxus 2y agohttps://translate.kagi.com/translate/Swedish/en/https://www.svt.se/nyheter/utrikes/uppgifter-om-nytt-kabelbrott-i-ostersjon https://translate.kagi.com/translate/Swedish/en/https://www....
- everfrustrated 2y agoDupe https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43125802 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43125802
- AnimalMuppet 2y agoTrue, but there's more discussion on this thread.
- lawn 2y agoWeird how these accidents has started happening so often... The European countries needs to stop being so soft.
- dmos62 2y agoI find it funny how if you marginally, but consistently, offend a geopolitical entity (Europe), you can actually train it to reduce the limits of what it considers acceptable. Just like a dog, or a person, I guess.
- lawn 2y agoI'm a Swede and I'm mostly upset that my government isn't acting more forcefully.
- powerhugs 2y agoAs another swede, I'd be happy to se Kristersson show some backbone. But he's apparently made out of snail so that won't happen. Not condemning the aggressor over and over make us look soft, indeed.
- CountSessine 2y agoJust as an aside, I love the term, “made out of snail.” Is this a Swedish idiom?
- carlosjobim 2y agoIf that's what you're hoping for, Ukraine is very grateful for volunteers. There's a bunch of Swedes who did go there to fight. There's a bunch who are there right now. Or is it "somebody else" who has to show a backbone and take action?
- lawn 2y agoThere are other ways for regular people to support, without jumping into an actual war zone without any training (that would harm more than it helps). For example to donate to organizations that actively support the war effort or to put pressure on the politicians to do more.
- ssijak 2y agoWhat do you suggest?
- Trasmatta 2y agoI quite like the idea of a united EU army. It's something that's been floated quite a bit recently.
- card_zero 2y agoBy Zelensky, I think. What? I'm pretty sure he said that. Yeah, here it is: 'Army of Europe' needed to challenge Russia, says Zelensky https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cvgl27x74wpo https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cvgl27x74wpo
- datameta 2y agoYes, he spoke on it at the Munich Security Conference, to frequent applause
- Trasmatta 2y agoYes (I don't know why you were downvoted), and others, but unfortunately I find it highly unlikely to happen. Or at least, it'll only happen when it's already too late, and Russia starts steamrolling more of Europe while the US does nothing (or actively supports it - the current admin is highly pro Russia). The US is no longer a reliable ally to the EU or NATO. The EU must be able to protect itself.
- gizajob 2y agoShould European countries position military craft at 1km intervals on the surface along the route of every cable? Or do you mean they should start cutting Russian cables?
- Trasmatta 2y agoThere are many possible methods of deterrence and reciprocal action. If you do nothing, the enemy has no reason not to escalate.
- basisword 2y ago>> There are many possible methods of deterrence and reciprocal action What do you suggest?
- boredatoms 2y agoFully close the border with russia? Permanently deny any boat that makes port in russia access to EU ports, I could go on
- stackedinserter 2y agoBan, arrest or damage "shadow fleet" tankers that transport Russian oil. Control their supply chain e.g. stop selling them spare parts for stolen planes. There are many things, all the way to taking hostages, but EU needs to grow some spine to do that.
- TheSpiceIsLife 2y agoReciprocal action gives the enemy plenty of reason to escalate.
- pmontra 2y agoLack of reciprocal action is called self deterrence. Or in simpler words, it's what happens when you keep doing what the bully at school asks you to do, more and more, because he could escalate, even if you are as strong as him or stronger.
- InDubioProRubio 2y ago<BotTemplate> Foggy first sentence of agreement Nuclear Threats for deterrence Political divisive topics </BotTemplate>
- blitzar 2y agoWe should really tell the US to f' off and stop cutting our undersea cables and blowing up our undersea pipes.
- andrewmutz 2y agoDid I miss something? What pointed to the US?
- AnimalMuppet 2y agoblitzar's imagination (or sarcasm).
- llm_nerd 2y agoUndersea cable breaks have been an ongoing issue for decades. To the tune of hundreds per year. Usually it's completely accidental and sometimes just environmental (it is a pretty hostile environment). It became newsworthy and a part of the zeitgeist so every incident is heavily reported on now, making it seem like there has been a big uptick when this stuff has always been happening. As to those countries being soft, this is happening in international waters and they have been seizing ships. Not sure how much more they are supposed to do. Anti-ship missiles?
- backyardflock 2y ago[flagged]
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- OKRainbowKid 2y agoDo you have a source for that? This smells like fake news.
- datameta 2y agoHe was actually one of the presiding members (forgot their title) who was completing his term. He got emotional over the gravity of the transition. To shed tears is not a mark of weakness. It serves as that signal only for the emotionally repressed.
- lo_zamoyski 2y agoAny recommendations? Or is this a case of double secret probation[0], or putting the invisible locks on the door[1]? Frankly, the EU is guilty of neglect in this respect for years. Poland, for example, had been urging things like more energy solidarity since it joined the EU, something Germany consistently shot down or waved away. Mustard after the meal in some ways. A stronger response will require more defense investment to counter hybrid warfare. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3LzJzQ3wj4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3LzJzQ3wj4 [1] https://youtu.be/7L8UwOZRejA?si=GPvx4hZw4vGMeXkE&t=48 https://youtu.be/7L8UwOZRejA?si=GPvx4hZw4vGMeXkE&t=48
- InDubioProRubio 2y agoA mysterious motor-boat appears and slam-explodes into russian tankers. No country claims to be the owner. Drunk motorboat enthusiasts suspected - no trace of hybrid warfare..
- tokai 2y agoLetters of marque could definitely do a comeback.
- bluGill 2y agoLetters of marque worked when you could expect to get value from the permission it gave you. That matters wasn't just that you had a letter, but that whoever gave you the letter has the power to ensure you can use it. I could write you a letter of marque to steel cars, but the police will just ignore that letter (or arrest me for doing so - there are likely a few laws that could apply though I don't know them). If US Congress writes you a letter to steel a car, you can then take that stolen car and use/sell it in the US - the full power congress is behind you in saying you can do that (but don't drive the car to Canada or Mexico). The important part here is I don't thing anyone can get enough value to be worth it. Often ships have negative value in a scrap yard - they are so full of toxic/hazardous things that scrap yards charge more than they are worth to cut them up.
- tokai 2y agoMillions of barrels of oil or a shipment of coal is pretty valuable.
- bilbo0s 2y agoRight. Escalation just when US leadership is pulling away. Stroke of strategic brilliance right there. /s EU should probably walk backward, slowly, saying “good dog”, while feeling around behind them for a stick. Ie - Take this opportunity to, quietly but significantly, scale up EU military capabilities. That would come in handy for dealing with both Russia, and the US, by the way. It’s crazy times so you don’t know what the future will hold.
- knowitnone 2y agowhy is Russia still connected to the internet?
- tokai 2y agoThey are working on disconnecting themselves. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/russia-is-trying-to-leave-the-internet-and-build-its-own/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/russia-is-trying-...
- Etheryte 2y agoWhenever this concept comes up, I can't help but ask, how would you actually implement cutting them off? They're chums with China, so is the plan to cut them off as well? And then all the countries that border China? What about other countries they share a border with? Etc. The only realistically feasible option is if they choose to do it themselves.
- tgsovlerkhgsel 2y agoProhibit US ISPs from maintaining routes with anyone who maintains routes with Russia.
- Etheryte 2y agoThe result of that would be cutting the US off from the internet, not Russia.
- tgsovlerkhgsel 2y agoThe result would be that there would be two Internets, one with the US, and one with Russia. Each country could then choose which one to join (either-or). So countries would have to choose between keeping access to Microsoft (Azure, Office 365, Windows updates), Amazon (AWS, Amazon itself, Prime Video), Google (Google Cloud, all Google services), Meta (WhatsApp/Facebook/Instagram), Github, Cloudflare, Slack, Steam, Netflix, Mastercard, Visa, ... - or to the services in countries that chose differently. I don't think that is a choice that any even remotely Western-aligned country could even consider a choice. It's likely that there would be some form of backlash (countries disliking this loss of sovereignty and measures to discourage reliance on US-based cloud providers in the long term), but in the short term, this would not be cutting the US off from parts of the Internet that it cares about. And with most countries having chosen (well, "chosen") the US-aligned Internet, India and China would have to choose between begrudgingly playing along, or seriously hurting their economies due to the additional friction of communicating with their export markets. I have no doubt that the US could pull this off. Not necessarily repeatedly and without consequences, of course, but right now, if they wanted to, I don't think the rest of the world would have a choice to not go along with it.
- danbruc 2y agoAre there any publicly available statistics on how often undersea cables - or other infrastructure under water - get damaged in certain regions? I vaguely remember some comment claiming that there are hundreds, I think, of incidents globally per year and I essentially never heard of any of them. And if the number is actually that high, then I am still only hearing about a tiny fraction of them. I would like to know how much of an outlier the Baltic sea in the last year or so is.
- renewiltord 2y agoHappens very often: rarer than land breaks but still on the order of multiple a year. Pay for low latency links and you’ll be exposed to this unreasonable fact. I have a hatred for Chinese fishing trawlers not for their destruction of food stock but for their propensity to ruin my day by predictably damaging the EAC-C2C system.
- simion314 2y agoYeah, happens globally but not that often in same region.
- rixed 2y agoQuite surprising indeed that it happens more frequently in a region with a lot of ships, a lot of cables, and a shallow sea... :-/
- simion314 2y agoYeah and by coincidence the ships are always with a Ruzzian crew or captain , or maybe it is just their level of incompetence or level of vodka that makes them drag their anchors , someone competent or awake would feel that this is happening with their ship .
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- srveale 2y agoI know nothing about this topic. How crazy is it to cover the cables with passive sonar and detect damage threats? How much crazier is it to create a sufficient number of undersea drones that can prevent damage before it happens? Maybe manoeuvre a protective barrier over the predicted impact area if there's a dragging anchor or fishing net? Pick a fight with enemy drones? I'm increasingly impressed and terrified with air/ground drone capabilities displayed in Ukraine. The sea floor seems like the next logical step. But maybe it's more efficient to detect damage quickly and make repairs easy.
- zerkten 2y agoWouldn't it be simpler to run dummy detection lines in parallel or through certain tracks to identify negligent activity? Critical cables get hit but it's hard to investigate and take action because the vessels are flagged in the Cook Islands etc. (Lawfare had a recent podcast on this.) It's not bad luck when there is some systematic behavior detected, but that data is hard to collection. Drones are cool but there is a huge area to cover reliably and often stay undetected by the adversary.
- lancebeet 2y agoGlobal connect (the company that owns and operates most data cables in the Baltic sea) is running tests with tamper detecting cables. They say they will be able to detect a whale at a distance of 80 kilometers. I assume the whale is just used as an example to demonstrate its sensitivity, since whales haven't been implicated in any of the previous cable breaks. Swedish: https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/ljusstrale-genom-kablar-kan-motverka-sabotage-i-ostersjon https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/ljusstrale-genom-kablar-k...
- someotherperson 2y agoI hope researchers get access to some of that data. Would be cool if an unintended side effect of this work ends up benefiting marine wildlife research.
- patapong 2y agoHow do we know that the whales have not been implicated without these sensors? Perhaps they will reveal that whales were the issue all along.
- razzio 2y agoWould it be possible to protect the cables with a 'hook line' before and after the actual cable that is anchored in the seabed (if possible)? Ship anchors would get stuck on the hook line before doing damage. Only needed below the shipping lanes. If ship anchors are able to reach the sea bottom then it can't be too deep. Drilling fasteners in the sea bottom at shallow depths could be feasible depending on the makeup of the sea bed. No idea about the cost to install vs repair though.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- Carrok 2y agoHere is a high quality article from last year about how these cables are repaired. https://www.theverge.com/c/24070570/internet-cables-undersea-deep-repair-ships https://www.theverge.com/c/24070570/internet-cables-undersea...