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BYD to offer Tesla-like self-driving tech in all models for free
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- darknavi 2y agoJust remember: If the product is free, then you are the product. This is true about Tesla FSD (which costs $$$$) too, but alas.
- werdnapk 2y agoWell if you bought the car, then it's not free.
- Tostino 2y agoThe phrase "If the product is free, then you are the product" doesn't preclude a company from selling you something and also making you the product. They are capable of screwing you over twice.
- harry8 2y agoI bought apple product and yet they own and control access to me as a customer tolling at 30% of revenue. So no, that wasn't free either.
- fullstackwife 2y agoit's more then that suddenly some foreign company gains control over traffic in your country think how it works with various Maps and their pathfinding algorithms, how often you see drivers blindly following Maps instructions? how often do you see drivers who are clueless without Maps? the self driving / remote control will cause even more problems (+ some car manufacturers simply cannot achieve good quality)
- tokioyoyo 2y agoYou can say the same about Mercedes, Tesla, Nissan and etc. Sure, you can make the "friendly state" argument, but then again, realpolitik is kinda funny nowadays.
- Despegar 2y agoTesla would be fucked without tariffs.
- werdnapk 2y agoIt's more the sanctions than the tariffs.
- xp84 2y agoWould you want for all cars to be made in China, the way all computers and smartphones are? I can't imagine any other outcome.
- Despegar 2y agoYeah I don't care
- loloquwowndueo 2y agoThat’s how the free market works, right?
- sergiotapia 2y agohas to be both ways for that to work. china can't just do whatever and tariff american companies to hell, right?
- slt2021 2y agoTesla shanghai exists GM also has factories in China tariff concerns should be discussed via WTO, not unilateral sanctions. otherwise all this "rules based order" is not worth paper it is written on
- SauciestGNU 2y agoThe "rules based order" is just an American invention to give our government something to talk about besides international law, which the US has basically always ignored.
- 1270018080 2y agoI wish America was a free market economy that embraced capitalism. The American consumer is getting screwed over and forced to pay more for an inferior product because the government wants to protect the local auto cartel.
- nextworddev 2y agoWould be more intriguing if American companies e.g. Facebook, Tesla were also allowed in China.
- cute_boi 2y agothey are allowed if they followed rules like other chinese website.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- 1270018080 2y agoI don't care. I just feel for the average American who is looking to buy a car and getting screwed over by corruption.
- seanmcdirmid 2y agoIf you bought a car in a big Chinese cities, you might complain about having to win in a lottery (Beijing) or pay in an auction (Shanghai) just to have the right to buy one. And even after that, you aren't allowed to drive your car everyday of the week. Cars in America are still relatively cheap to buy and operate by world standards. They aren't much cheaper in China (and can become very expensive for non-econo luxury models), and you can face a lot of restrictions on when you can use them.
- dalyons 2y agoas i understand there are no day restrictions for EVs.
- gregschlom 2y agoA bit surprised to learn that their product is called "God's eyes", given that this is a Chinese company - I thought religion was frowned upon in Communist China. Am I missing something?
- sympil 2y agoObviously there are people who don’t believe in god who use that word in phrases to convey a certain sense or meaning.
- gjsman-1000 2y agoAll religions not approved by the party are frowned upon in China. Also, when a religion refuses to gain approval, the party quite literally hard forks it. Catholic? No, you have the Chinese Catholic Patriotic Association; which was only recently tentatively reconciled after about 60 years of schism (though it’s still a very uneasy peace).
- harry8 2y agoThe religious are more likely to object to this name. One can imagine a different name in Saudi, for example. Among atheists one would think it would no more troubling than referencing Legolas in a name. [1] In China I suspect they'd object to "Mao's Eyes" as a name for this. [1] Many atheists may register an objection on the grounds of upsetting others in the community.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- zozbot234 2y ago
- datavirtue 2y agoWhat next? Are they going to open source the self driving system? Commies.
- anticensor 2y agoYes, why not? Open sourcing and standardising it across all Chinese manufacturers would be a logical next step.
- c0nducktr 2y agoMy sarcasm detector isn't working on this one. Are you actually against open-sourcing of a self-driving system?
- datavirtue 2y agoYou sarcasm detector, is indeed, not working. I saw it as the next logical step and thought of the reaction of the US government. You know, it falls in line with the whole DeepSeek thing. On some level Im glad it was downvoted but seriously?
- 0xcoffee 2y ago>BYD has deployed three different versions of the “God’s Eye” ADAS across its line-up. All three offer automated parking and lane-keeping features, with the basic version – available on models costing up to 219,800 yuan ($30,078.69) – enabling autonomous driving on highways. The driver must keep their hands on the wheel and take control when necessary. >Two higher-end versions will be installed on more expensive BYD-branded cars and its premium Denza and Yangwang brands. These will enable a car to drive autonomously — though also under human supervision — in more complex urban traffic. The base version is self driving as in lane assist. It will not change lanes for you or 'self drive' to your destination. I agree with BYD that these are great safety features and give them props for not gating safety behind a paywall.
- nu2ycombinator 2y ago[flagged]
- testfrequency 2y agoAbsolutely not. Waymo is so much more confident and reliable than FSD.
- nu2ycombinator 2y agoDisagree
- testfrequency 2y agoRemember to wear your seatbelt
- msikora 2y agoWaymo literally drives around as a Taxi without a driver. Millions of miles and no major accidents. With Tesla FSD there is another horror story every day
- nu2ycombinator 2y agoI used Waymo in SF 6 months and it pulled behind a parked car, thinking it is traffic waiting to turn left. Also Waymo drive feels like drive of a 90 year old non confident driver, where as Tesla's FSD is in another level, drives just like a taxi driver.
- dlivingston 2y agoI took a road trip over Christmas from Massachusetts to Florida and back, and used FSD on my Model Y the entire drive. The number of times I had to manually disengage because it was doing something stupid / dangerous was... a lot. More than a dozen interventions, maybe two dozen.
- bdunks 2y agoI was in Mexico City two weeks ago and a few uber drivers were driving BYD Dolphins. I was impressed. At a $14k price point, I can’t imagine better value for money. I got sucked into research and there are no near term plans for expanding to the US market. It’s too bad. They’re expecting to sell 500,000 units in Mexico this year. With the current (lower) emissions standards, I’m optimistic such affordable EVs will make a big difference to air quality in the coming years.
- testfrequency 2y agoI was just about to comment that a friend of mine owns a BYD and I got to drive his while in Mexico. Can’t remember the model, but it’s a crossover style. I was ready to hate on it, but for the price and quality inside at least, wild. It also drove like any other car in the low/mid range that I’ve owned, wheel felt confident and had some heft to it (my preference).
- haunter 2y ago>At a $14k price point In China maybe where it's 100k RMB (~roughly $14k). Everywhere else it's the double or at least $25k. It's £26k ($32k) in the UK. It's €32k ($33k) in Germany Even in Mexico it's $26k (535k pesos) not $14k https://www.autocosmos.com.mx/catalogo/vigente/byd/dolphin https://www.autocosmos.com.mx/catalogo/vigente/byd/dolphin
- bradgessler 2y agoWhy are US EVs 2-3x the cost of BYD EVs? Do US consumers not want cars at that price point, is it regulation, is to labor/material costs, or some combination thereof? It seems like if there was a $15-$20k EV in the US market, it would be a no-brainer "around town" second car. Instead we get $30k Model 3/Y's or $80k EV SUV/Vans.
- 42772827 2y agoLabor costs and a manufacturing industry that isn’t hyperfinancialized by the government
- xyst 2y agoAmerican companies have been using the excuse of “more technology/screens” to justify the higher price points. Then using vague “inflation”/“pandemic”/“supply chain issues” to justify higher prices. However as we witnessed during the pandemic, manufacturers of goods tend to increase the cost of the goods despite minimal increase in supply chain, cost of materials or labor. It’s all for maximizing profit and they were “testing” the market to reap massive profits. With no competition, they (collectively as an industry) felt no need to decrease prices or offer cheaper vehicle options. I also suspect abuse of CAFE exceptions (ie, “light duty trucks”) is the second leading cause of the death of affordable vehicles.
- gibolt 2y agoBYD also charges ~double the price in other markets, including Mexico, compared to China. That makes it very close to a base Model 3, for much less car.
- ggm 2y agoThis seems like doing a lot of +++ on one side and --- on the other, to say "its cheaper, for a cheaper car" 1) it's not as expensive as a model 3 in mexico 2) it's not as much lower end, when it comes to what drivers want, noting FSD is not actually on anyones radar, or "free" with the low end models 3) it's cheaper by a margin most people on rational incomes close to average would say is a LOT of money.
- xyst 2y agoWhile I love hearing TSLA getting undercut and ripped apart by competition. I’m honestly curious as to how this company is able to do so - are they cutting quality of materials elsewhere? Safety concerns? Or just plain ole use of ~~slave~~ cheap labor? Or have the EU and US car manufacturers been ripping us off all along? Perhaps this Chinese EV car is loaded up to the tits with surveillance technology and EV company is going to go behind your back and sell it to the highest bidder to make up the loss in sale of vehicle.
- amazingamazing 2y agoChinese people are paid much less than Americans.
- ponty_rick 2y agoChina has better manufacturing prowess than the USA. Their scale is astonishing and they have an incredible ecosystem of components, logistics and labor to make manufacturing hyperefficient. I'm sure the government helps them out too, but one shouldn't discount just how good they are at manufacturing.
- programmertote 2y agoBesides the US vs. China wage differences, it is easier to source things locally and iterate quickly. At least that is what I read as one of the advantages Chinese car manufacturers have.
- ricardobeat 2y agoUltra-optimized manufacturing and supply chains, lower labour costs, lower material and transportation costs as everything is available next door; add twenty years of building up an auto industry with strong government support. A lot of the chinese car brands are using European design expertise. Nio and Zeekr have a full 5-star Euro NCAP lineup, and even the small weird ones like the “Ora Funky Cat” are getting top safety marks.
- buzzerbetrayed 2y agoGovernment subsidies. It isn't a fair playing field. You're essentially celebrating that the Chinese government is choosing for their car company to crush rather than the rest of the world's car companies. This isn't an example of being "ripped apart by competition". It's being ripped apart by a government.
- highfrequency 2y agoYou can bet that the 100% tariff on BYD cars in the US isn’t going anywhere with Musk so influential in the government. A $14k EV would be a huge threat to Tesla’s market cap.
- SauciestGNU 2y agoI think rest of world will gobble these up though, especially with retaliatory tariffs or straight up import bans on Teslas on the table from aggrieved trading partners.
- notatoad 2y agoeven if the tariff did disappear, i can't imagine BYD is going to be too eager to get into the US market. there's plenty of other places to sell cars.
- asadotzler 2y agoThey will eventually build in Mexico (or the US South) and we'll get them here.
- hathawsh 2y agoOTOH, theoretically, could we produce a decently priced EV with US materials only? If we go all-in on automation, could one factory worker do the job that many do today, thereby reducing costs? If we can head in that direction, I think Elon wants to compete in that kind of market, not bog it down with regulation.
- callc 2y agoSure. Price every good from not-USA 1000x and let’s see what happens. I thought the republicans were in favor of a free market, but it seems more like those with power don’t mind putting some weight on their side of the scale, since they own the scale and the bank. > I think Elon wants to compete in that kind of market, not bog it down with regulation Be careful about any phrase that starts with “I think {person} wants to…” especially if person is rich/powerful. Judge people based on their actions, not the facade they put on.
- jongjong 2y agoSurely they cannot sell at this price without government subsidies (direct or indirect)? This possibility paints a frightening picture of the power of government in the global marketplace. The government of any large country can selectively choose to monopolize any specific industry and wipe out all competitors in other countries via subsidies. It's not a fair playing field for market participants. It makes the whole environment completely unpredictable and dominated by the whims of hundreds of different governments. It promotes government scheming over raw productive capabilities of workers and entrepreneurs; it throws decentralized economic efficiency under the bus in favor of monopolistic, centralized government-oriented strategies. In such environment, I can understand why tariffs are essential. You can't have a market where participants are playing by different rules of different countries. Also, you can't expect market participants to familiarize themselves with the (possibly secret) policies of hundreds of different governments or be forced to abandon their entire industry in their own country because they happen to be skilled in an industry which is not propped up in their own country as it is in some other foreign country. Our system is so incredibly asymmetric, right down to the monetary layer. People ought to refuse to participate at all. BTW, it's not only China which plays these games; you could also say this about US tech/software industry.
- fy20 2y agoTarrifs don't really help in this situation though. The actions of large governments do not affect just themselves, it's affect other countries too. The affects are much greater than just where to get the cheapest steel. Smart governments can use that to their advantage. If you look at it from a big picture, one of the major winners of the Ukraine war has been the USA oil and gas industry, as Europe now imports almost 3x the amount of LNG it did before the war from USA [0]. The USA military complex is also doing pretty well, as governments in Europe are allocating more towards defense as Russia seems like a much riskier neighbour than it was 5 years ago. [0] https://www.bruegel.org/dataset/european-natural-gas-imports https://www.bruegel.org/dataset/european-natural-gas-imports
- asadotzler 2y agoUS EV makers have received as much or more in subsidies than Chinese makers in the last 5 years.
- mikl 2y agoOne might hope it’ll cause Tesla to drop the price for their “full” self-driving too. $8'000 for a software feature is just bonkers. Especially in Europe, where there’s no subscription option, so you can’t even try it without paying the full price first, and many of the fancier features are not supported here. Even regular auto-pilot is not very reliable for me, it often fails to recognize city limits signs, and fairly often panic brakes because it misinterprets cars driving on the other side of the road as being on collision course.
- yakz 2y agoIt’s $8000 because it doesn’t work and it comes with free hardware upgrades until it works (for some definition of ‘works’ but currently it breaks often enough and badly enough that you’d have to be dishonest to say it works without a huge collection of qualifying footnotes attached to the statement)
- hnburnsy 2y agoWatch Out of Spec for reviews of the latest Chinese EV tech including ADAS and battery swapping... https://outofspecstudios.com/ https://outofspecstudios.com/ I was floored by what they are producing in China. It is a shame that these cars are not reaching more of the world and raising the competitive bar. I get the government subsidy and lower labor costs issues, but the tariffs are retarding competition, propping up prices, and hurting consumers.
- judge2020 2y agoGiven their M/O is seemingly using indentured Uighur servants, it probably wouldn’t work economically here. https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/chinese-workers-byd-brazil-factory-signed-contracts-with-abusive-clauses-2025-01-31/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/chines...
- hnburnsy 2y agoWell at least we are protecting those automotive union jobs so that the average MSRP can top $50K.
- tzs 2y agoAre we? Only about 16% of US auto workers are union. When states started offering incentives like big tax breaks to get auto makers to build factories outside of they often made those breaks contingent on the plants not being unionized. Those states also often had laws designed to make it much harder for unions to organize.
- rangestransform 2y agoremember when biden tried to offer an increased EV tax credit for union built EVs shameless UAW vote buying
- 999900000999 2y agoThank God we never do that here. >Intricate, invisible webs, just like this one, link some of the world’s largest food companies and most popular brands to jobs performed by U.S. prisoners nationwide, according to a sweeping two-year AP investigation into prison labor that tied hundreds of millions of dollars’ worth of agricultural products to goods sold on the open market. https://apnews.com/article/prison-to-plate-inmate-labor-investigation-c6f0eb4747963283316e494eadf08c4e https://apnews.com/article/prison-to-plate-inmate-labor-inve...
- nova22033 2y ago"Tesla-like" meaning not really "Full" self driving?
- uptownfunk 2y agoSo what is tslas new story going to be at earnings.
- slaw 2y agoT-800 instead of Optimus.
- dhdjruf 2y ago[dead]
- nunez 2y agoTesla just got Deepseeked. Amazing. I love FSD. I use it daily. It's replaced a lot of driving for me. This should 100% be available to everyone for free. It will significantly improve safety once edge cases are worked out.
- tw04 2y agoEdge cases like snow and rain? If you live in Southern California it seems like it will replace humans everywhere. If you live anywhere with seasons, you wonder when they’re going to figure out cameras don’t work in heavy rain or with a layer of salt caking the lens.
- glitch003 2y agosurprisingly, it works excellent in rain. i was on the highway in florida in a torrential downpour, the kind where everyone turns their flashers on and goes 25mph. many people pulled over to wait it out. FSD handled it perfectly even though i could barely see. it did show a warning that it might be degraded due to weather, but there was no change in performance. i can't speak for snow tho.
- nunez 2y agoIt works amazingly in rain here in Houston.
- skeeter2020 2y agoNo hubris whatsoever calling your tech "god's eye" - in a country that's officially an atheist state!
- fspeech 2y agoThat's due to the translation. The original term 天神 comes from the polytheistic Chinese folk religion so it doesn't have the same connotation.
- aussieguy1234 2y agoLots of people are refusing to buy Tesla's due to feeling alienated by Musk's political views and antics: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-02-07/tesla-sales-slump-off-back-of-elon-musks-allegiances-with-trump/104905068 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-02-07/tesla-sales-slump-off... Like the article says, Many Tesla owners are also looking to offload or sell them to avoid any appearance of endorsing Musk or his views or being linked to them in any way. Many awkward conversations are being had with Tesla owners around Musk and alot of them don't feel comfortable owning the cars anymore. This BYD feature, while BYD is not a perfect company themselves, will cause further issues for Tesla.
- not_a_bot_4sho 2y agoFunny story: was visiting Chengdu and got to test drive a BYD. The sales rep was super energetic and proud of how superior to Tesla their tech was. And I was eating it up until she turned on self-driving and we crashed into a parked car. Still a really great EV car at a great price. But I'm not ready for any car's self-driving after that...
- iamthemonster 2y agoYeah I drive a BYD Atto 3 and it's a great car but the lane assist and adaptive cruise control lets it down significantly. I won't be getting excited about self driving this decade.
- rsynnott 2y ago> And I was eating it up until she turned on self-driving and we crashed into a parked car. I mean, I don't see your problem; she was simply demonstrating that it had the same capability to randomly crash into things as Tesla's solution! That's what people _like_ about the Tesla one; keeps things interesting.
- tim333 2y agoHere's a video of the self driving in action. The commentary is in Korean but you can still see it drives ok in some tricky situations. There was one human intervention in 30 mins driving. Filmed in China. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qjl3r3D2tG4&t=340s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qjl3r3D2tG4&t=340s
- enslavedrobot 2y agoI'd be interested to know what inference hardware they are using. Some of their cars are so cheap the inference hardware would cost a good percentage of the cost of the car....
- hulitu 2y ago> BYD to offer Tesla-like self-driving tech in all models for free Tesla like? Doesn't Tesla require that you keep your hands on the wheel ?