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Elon Musk's Demolition Crew
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- andrewfromx 2y agoexecs Steve Davis and Brad Smith running things Implementing new government-wide email systems (Riccardo Biasini)
- 29athrowaway 2y agoDepartment of Government Efficiency (DOGE) could be an implementation of Retire All Government Employees (RAGE), an idea that is part of the Dark Enlightenment movement. Another inspiration could be the Ministry of Deregulation and State Transformation of Argentina. Over there they call it "the chainsaw".
- tomrod 2y agoWalk and talks like a duck. This is an attempt at Yarvin's Butterfly revolution. Failing too, because courts know how to prioritize and take past actions into account, but wasteful nonetheless. I hear loads of Feds saying to hold the line. Less have taken Musk's RAGE offer than what normally retire in a given year.
- potsandpans 2y agoThat's an optimistic take unfortunately. From what I can see, the attempt is going tremendously well. We'll have to see how brazen the trump admin really is prepared to be here. If they are all in, they'll ignore the courts and the doj will do nothing about it. Which has already been telegraphed. From what ive seen, The feds are saying "hold the line" mostly to cope with the situation. If this admin wants to retire them, they will. Its hard to hold the line when your access is shut off and your paycheck stops coming in. It's not a great situation. We're basically just sitting and waiting to see how much this administration is bluffing, with no reasonable answer for what to do if they are not -- in fact -- bluffing. When they start ignoring the courts... what next? Do we hope the military intervenes?
- tomrod 2y ago6% of Feds retire annually. 2.5% or so gave taken the offer. This is not wide success. I agree, the blitzkrieg on democracy really needs to stop. Per doge goals, doge is highly inefficient and lacking oversight.
- potsandpans 2y agoWe'll see
- 29athrowaway 2y agoIn the 90s, Clinton did something similar and wasn't seen as a blitzkrieg on democracy.
- tomrod 2y agoI think we can both agree Clinton was neither trying to rob the government blind nor bypassing Congress completely in taking over and shuttering independent agencies. Nor was he implementing Yarvin's vision for RAGE as step 2 towards the Dark Enlightenment.
- chris_wot 2y agoHow did you Americans allow any of this?
- adamtaylor_13 2y agoSome of us don’t agree with the rampant waste in our government. Some of us also don’t have faith that the system can fix itself without drastic measures like this. I’ll admit I’m wrong if and when it turns out that I am. Until then, I’m cheering it on.
- gilbetron 2y agoCool, so when the fascists have dismantled government and taken over power, at least we might have your apology, although I doubt it even then, you'll just shift the goalposts.
- tomrod 2y agoRather than tearing the system down, let's identify the areas of rampant waste to a degree more lucid than what a news channel or podcast claims. Most areas people claims for alleged waste are legally required/statutory or spindoctored (especially grant topics). Social security isn't waste, but it is on the chopping block. It blows my mind that people are so hungry to hurt so many others and themselves in the process.
- adamtaylor_13 2y agoI disagree with social security not being waste. Just because some people find it useful, doesn’t inherently make it not wasteful. I’ll be lucky if my generation will even be able to pull anything out of social security.
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- kevingadd 2y agoSo I've been paying for social security my whole life and you think it's a waste and you have the right to take the program away from me? Will I be getting a refund?
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- ethagnawl 2y ago*aspiring
- tuckerman 2y agoOf many folks I know I’m perhaps the least bothered/most open to what they are trying to do in spirit but can you share more about this impact? To date it seems like the amounts we are talking about are small in relative numbers and fraud has a pretty specific meaning which doesn’t apply to anything I’m aware of.
- blackguardx 2y agoCan you link me to this fraud you are referencing? I haven’t seen any reports of that.
- bokoharambe 2y agoI think the sycophants cheering these moves on are so interesting. I have absolutely no sense that any of these changes are going to have meaningful positive impacts in my life. "We all benefit" in what sense? Aesthetically? What does USAID have to do with me? What positive impact will I see from banning the X gender marker? How do undocumented migrants affect my life negatively?
- perrohunter 2y agoit's so easy to be cynical, how do you do it?
- bokoharambe 2y ago
- Trasmatta 2y ago> On his personal Substack, he wrote an essay titled “Why I gave up a seven-figure salary to save America,” according to press reports, and described failed U.S. attorney general nominee Matt Gaetz, who withdrew from Congress amid allegations of sexual misconduct, as a “victim” of the deep state. The fact that nobody is stopping these people is the clearest evidence anyone needs that there's no such thing as "the deep state". But they're actively trying to create one. I'm incredibly depressed and disillusioned to see fellow software engineers drinking the Kool-aid so deeply while they dismantle the US federal government. I've learned the hard way that many people in this country do NOT actually care about democracy. At all. I used to believe that most everyone agreed that democracy was good, and we just disagreed on policy. I no longer believe that.
- SoftTalker 2y agoMost people drink kool-aid. It's just a matter of whether it's blue or red.
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- quink 2y agoSo a review of at most millions warrants cancelling billions in the meantime that literally keeps people from dying? Not a great indicator of how much you value human life there, buddy.
- nomdep 2y ago[flagged]
- insane_dreamer 2y agoYou clearly don't know much about the rest of the world.
- quink 2y agoPEPFAR, created by _Republican_ George W. Bush, is dead as part of this, here's _Republican_ George W. Bush claiming it saved 25 million lives in a talk two years ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIOUWlL_HLQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIOUWlL_HLQ Unless we're all pointing at everyone we don't like, regardless of if they were the most notable _Republican_ of the past few decades except for maybe Trump, and calling them Democrats. Here you go with this most Democrat of websites: https://www.bushcenter.org/publications/global-health-update-february-2025 https://www.bushcenter.org/publications/global-health-update... - on that website they now list 26 million lives - and "it’s a matter of life and death". "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell
- skripp 2y agoIs this a new thing? As a non-American the US is for us famous for the exact opposite in south/latin America.
- mberning 2y agoWhat’s even crazier is that the uniparty is like 2 issues away from restoring their kleptocratic stanglehold on the country.
- pimlottc 2y agoI have no idea what this means.
- spdgg 2y agoUniparty probably references the fact that D and R parties have maintained a status quo and only differentiate themselves through inconsequential arguments. Kleptocracy in the way those Congress members have colluded to give money to their benefactors (unjust wars, subsidizing bank failures, subsidizing health insurance companies that screw most of us). It's not mysterious.
- palmfacehn 2y agoIt is mysterious for those who have different world views or exist inside of a partisan bubble. I can easily imagine how they might characterize your above comment as a, "conspiracy theory". Interesting times.
- pimlottc 2y agoWhat are the “2 issues”? Why do they need to “restore” their “stranglehold” when every president for the past 100+ years has been either a Democrat or a Republican?
- nemo44x 2y agoIf this was happening under Obama’s tenure the headline would read something like “whip-smart youths revitalizing government by removing calcified waste!”
- sour-taste 2y agoDOGE is what you get when you take the performance management culture of big tech and apply it to government. Make big changes with 0 testing then no matter the outcome brag loudly about it. Move fast and break things indeed
- amazingamazing 2y agoIt’s difficult to have any serious political conversation on the internet these days. All of the places tend to be slanted so much in one direction. Ironically the popularity of downvoting and algorithmic display of content is part of why people are always so surprised about such things, including trumps win. People frequently take the most uncharitable interpretation, and suffer from attribution bias greatly.
- dailyplanet 2y agoIt's a technocratic coup in broad daylight. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Enlightenment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Enlightenment Arrogant Silicon Valley CEOs think the world belongs to them. They want liberal democracy to fail and transition to a "tech monarchy". Quite frankly, I don't think the 2026 and 2028 elections will happen. Look up Peter Thiel, Curtis Yarvin, Nick Land, Steve Bannon, Marc Andreessen, and other figures involved with the "Neo-Reactionary accelerationist" Dark Enlightenment movement. One of Elon's little DOGE lackeys (Edward Coristine) has "there are cathedrals everywhere for those with eyes to see" as his twitter bio. "Cathedral" is Curtis Yarvin's word for the "cultural hegemony" of universities and the government, hence why he wants to destroy the federal Department of Education especially as well as any federal agency and the federal government from the inside. It turned out that the whole American experiment of tech-capitalism out of Silicon Valley was a huge failure and a existential threat to decency, stability, and order in the Western world. Even Paul Graham will lightly chastise Elon Musk on twitter, but is largely fine with what Musk is doing.
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- dailyplanet 2y agoYou are correct. It's ironic that they wave the American flag and claim to be patriots, and yet no one hates the American government more than the Trump MAGA cultists who wave the American flag the hardest. The cruelty is the point. Millions of federal workers who are decent and hard-working folks will lose their jobs. Millions of poor people in the Global South will die, but this is what they want because most of these NRx insurrectionists are also racists and white supremacists, including DOGE staffer Marko Elez who had to resign for the racist tweets that were uncovered by WSJ. White supremacist influencers like Nick Fuentes, Steve Bannon, Stephen Miller, Paul Joseph Watson, and so on have poisoned the world. And Elon Musk retweets these trendy white supremacists and neo-nazies. Elon even confirmed that the Roman salute was what everyone thought it was the first time with a meme, and then is interfering with Germany's election by pressing his thumb to lift up the neo-nazi AfD party. No one seems to care and Paul Graham is still friendly with Elon Musk. Billionaires will always stay pals with fellow billionaires. Fascism is essentially another word for corporatism. They want the government to be small and weak so that their corporations can be more powerful than the government.
- quink 2y agoAlways interesting to remember how they came, in a big way, for aid recipients and transgender people first, probably the most vulnerable. While also cancelling anything DEI, Meals on Wheels, you mention it. This presidency so far has some real “First They Came…” vibes.
- wnevets 2y agoExpect a lot more fake stories about fraud and other nefarious doings from these guys to justify their crimes. The exact something happened with twitter.
- motorest 2y ago[flagged]
- ZeroGravitas 2y agoThey're more likely to claim the agency knowingly gave $100 million worth of paperclips to the Taliban as part of a Marxist plot.* If you're going to make stuff up, why not go big and viral. * And yes, if you're not keeping up with the news cycle this is a thing that really happened, just with condoms not paperclips.
- tim333 2y agoYou have to wonder given the Gaza mix up - they saw money going to "gaza" and assumed it was the usual one rather than Gaza, Mozambique - whether they are going to do anything competently. I mean a techy seeing one word on a spreadsheet that looks iffy and putting hundreds of skilled people out of their jobs as a result is not a great way to run things.
- ZeroGravitas 2y agoOne theory is it's a mixup about the Gaza in Mozambique: > According to the HHS grants database, the Elizabeth Glaser Pediatric AIDS Foundation in Mozambique received more than $83m in funding since 2021 for reproductive health projects in two provinces: Inhambane and Gaza.
- gman83 2y agoYeah, it's probably a fishing expedition to uncover some "scandal": https://www.techdirt.com/2025/02/03/the-twitter-files-playbook-comes-for-the-us-government/ https://www.techdirt.com/2025/02/03/the-twitter-files-playbo...
- spicyusername 2y agoI want to believe these changes can be positive, but the people in charge of enacting them have done nothing but disabuse me of trust and good faith.
- tomrod 2y agoMy take exactly. It makes the takes around Yarvin's Dark Enlightenment seem like their real motive.
- spankalee 2y agoWhat changes and what's any indication that they would ever have been positive regardless of these people? Unilaterally taking a chainsaw to federal agencies, against their congressional establishment, in a rush in the first three weeks of the administration, is a terrible idea no matter who's running the show. Even if that were somehow a positive thing, the goals range from ridiculously dubious to outright evil.
- oliwarner 2y agoI assume the rush is so these changes get made law-by-budget. Whatever they manage to cut will stay cut once Congress sets that as the ongoing budget and assuming a fairly balanced future, it could take decades to undo.
- motorest 2y ago> I want to believe these changes can be positive, (...) What is there to suggest these changes have any positive trait whatsoever? They don't even carry a plausible justification.
- ClarityGuy 2y ago[flagged]
- laidoffamazon 2y ago......huh?
- water-data-dude 2y agoI _think_ they’re talking about the people arrested for storming the capitol?
- chairmanwow1 2y ago[flagged]
- amazingamazing 2y agoI’m curious how you believe elons experience here would be beneficial?
- chairmanwow1 2y agoSame way the man that knew nothing about rockets built the company that builds the world’s most sophisticated launch vehicles. By understanding problems and then solving them. I cannot think of a more universally useful skillset.
- amazingamazing 2y agoI’m not following - no one has the skill of understanding and solving problems in any domain. There’s no reason elons experience in the tech sector makes them uniquely capable
- Trasmatta 2y ago[flagged]
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- Keyframe 2y agoApparently, DOGE is also meddling with FAA's air traffic control system. I wonder what could go wrong here? https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1887233566263967812 https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1887233566263967812
- defrost 2y agoThe question was raised here 24 hours ago .. and [flagged][dead] fairly rapidly. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42957495 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42957495 Which was unfortunate as I asked for technical comments on the wisdom of moving fast and breaking things when applied to a million humans aloft at any moment.
- tomrod 2y agoThat's a shame. A lot of people seem to respect a man whose family has been old money for a long time, thinking he is somehow self made.
- Keyframe 2y agoon the positive side, maybe these young ones will have a help of Grok when introducing code into critical safety systems!
- tomrod 2y agoWhat a terrible name the man ruined by choosing, a perfectly cromulent Heinleinian term.
- SauciestGNU 2y agoI think Heinlein ideologically is somewhat a fellow traveler with Musk and Thiel types.
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- Animats 2y agoWhat we're seeing happen in the downsizing area is mostly from the Project 2025 policy manual.[1] The just-confirmed head of the Office of Management and Budget, Russell Vought, was one of the major authors of Project 2025. It's worth reading that, at least the key sections. Trump has insisted that Project 2025 is not his policy, but what's happening is close to the manual. The Project 2025 people couldn't agree on tariffs. So there are two contradictory sections by different authors, "Free Trade" and "Fair Trade". Trump seems to have picked the "Fair Trade" plan. Trump's initiatives in Canada, Panama, Greenland, and Gaza were not part of the plan. [1] https://www.project2025.org/policy/ https://www.project2025.org/policy/
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- antigeox 2y ago[dead]
- ZeroGravitas 2y agoGreenland at least was mentioned in project 2025 as having security implications. Trump may have freestyled some extra policy on top of that. > Concerning Greenland, the opening of a U.S. consulate in Nuuk is welcome. A formal year-round diplomatic presence is an effective way for the U.S. to better understand local political and economic dynamics. Furthermore, given Green- land’s geographic proximity and its rising potential as a commercial and tourist location, the next Administration should pursue policies that enhance economic ties between the U.S. and Greenland. and > Established an office in Greenland to help counter China’s claims of being “a near Arctic state” and reoriented its programming across Asia—including establishing a USAID Mission to Central Asia—in line with America’s Indo- Pacific strategy.
- Animats 2y agoNot sure about "security implications", but a mining site writes "Greenland is considered one of the last frontiers for exploration by mining experts."[1] There's oil, and some companies drilling, various gemstones, and iron. [1] https://www.azomining.com/Article.aspx?ArticleID=59 https://www.azomining.com/Article.aspx?ArticleID=59
- thrance 2y agoThat some here are still blinded to the disastrous effects this will have on their country is baffling. How could you ever believe that giving all powers to egomaniacal billionaires would benefit you or anyone you know? Can't you see their best interests are 100% antagonistic to yours? What would it take for you to admit "ok that's too far"?
- Quarrelsome 2y agoElez, the guy who pushed the changes the devs were not allowed to review to the production payment system, is the guy that has just resigned because of hyper racist comments he made in the past that have come to light. If in doubt, I recommend checking them out because they're incredibly awful, to the extent that it makes you wonder if the payment system he pushed to had ethnic information attached to it.
- hn_throwaway_99 2y ago> that has just resigned because of hyper racist comments he made in the past that have come to light. Just to add clarity, "the past" in this case wasn't even that long ago, as these racist tweets that were uncovered were from June to December of 2024.
- Zigurd 2y agoThat, and the standard for rejecting racists shouldn't be set at "hyper racist." Especially since we are seeing supposedly well educated young men in an environment that has normalized anything less than "hyper."
- wrfrmers 2y agoIt seems as good a time as any to point out that the environment in which people like this are making decisions is the one in which equal opportunity/affirmative action/DEI become tenable, if not necessary. For those of you whinging about how unfair scope-broadening to force decision makers to at least consider marginalized people for opportunities is, the problem is not these initiatives, it's these people, who make it impossible to determine if someone is being rejected for merit or for some other reason. In general, we have to get away from the idea that the highest score along a narrow measure is the be-all-end-all of merit, anyway. Set a reasonable floor of competence, and then either run a lottery or begin looking at other qualities.
- ZeroGravitas 2y ago
- madhacker 2y agosmelly Musk thinks his sledgehammer method at head count reduction at the federal level makes any real significant is a fool's errand without a deep working knowledge of government. what about all the monies incurred from inept procurement deals and revolving door policy. Ask about federal fiscal spending when our enemies see no one is manning the gate. “We are being led by weak and feckless leadership who only serve to enrich themselves.”
- JohnBrookz 2y agoEmpire maintenance is hard. USAID was a form of soft power that prevented the necessary use of blunt force. Given the rhetoric against China, the consolidation of power and rise of nationalistic fervor. I suppose we’re just a few years from war with China. Presumably under a false flag operation ala Gulf of Tonkin style. Fascism is capitalisms iron fist.
- toomuchtodo 2y agoWar with China might be necessary to purge US fascism.
- jimmydoe 2y agoChina has its own internal nationalism pressure against foreign aid.
- waltercool 2y ago[flagged]
- ChrisArchitect 2y agoMore discussion: The young, inexperienced engineers aiding DOGE https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42910910 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42910910
- 29athrowaway 2y ago[flagged]
- joyeuse6701 2y agoSure, but youth is NOT associated with caution, which is needed in abundance when dealing with critical legacy systems. This is a bad plan.
- tomrod 2y agoAye, but comptency is also not proven. I'd prefer our secure and important systems be handled appropriately and by those who have proven themselves consistent and loyal to the Constitution.
- dhdjruf 2y ago[flagged]
- jhp123 2y agohe did [0] [1] [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_Count_Reform_and_Presidential_Transition_Improvement_Act_of_2022 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_Count_Reform_and_P... [1] https://democrats-cha.house.gov/media/press-releases/ranking-member-morelle-introduced-constitutional-amendment-prevent-immunity https://democrats-cha.house.gov/media/press-releases/ranking...
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- 3vidence 2y agoHonest question for Americans. What do you think the federal government is doing to make you "poorer" that deserves dismantling the government. US income tax is generally lower than other advanced economies. Housing and medical insurance is mainly a state issue.
- realdjtthrow 2y ago[flagged]
- ty6853 2y agoThe US has a progressive income taxation so they've counterbalanced that through taxing the balance ultimately via inflation,which is regressive against the cash based poor.
- 3vidence 2y agoHigh levels of government debt aren't exactly unique to America, however, America has the unique ability to issue it's own reserve currency that other countries will absolutely buy. Also isn't by far the number one government spending item the military? Why aren't they starting there?
- realdjtthrow 2y ago[flagged]
- 3vidence 2y agoDoes that really align with occupying Gaza, invading Panama and occupying Greenland? Let alone the loose threats to Canada.
- realdjtthrow 2y ago[flagged]
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- antigeox 2y ago[dead]
- purplezooey 2y ago"Demolition Crew"? That's a very kind euphemism for a collection of sycophant clowns that have no experience in government. Indeed I could not find a single one that had any experience.
- motorest 2y agoYou need experience to preserve and improve a service. If you want to destroy and sabotage a service, you place incompetent people at the helm. Even the CIA lists this as a strategy in its sabotage manual.
- winrid 2y ago[flagged]
- tim333 2y agoNo competence in government programs.
- motorest 2y ago> Who is incompetent in this list? The definition of competence is "having the necessary ability, knowledge, or skill to do something successfully." You're posting in a forum mainly followed by engineers. Your average experience engineer knows well what a kid straight out of college brings in in terms of ability, knowledge, or skill to do something successfully. We know, because some of us are tasked with onboarding said kids to come straight from college. Some of us had the privilege of onboarding elite recruits from college, and even they need guidance to be effective at their job. And you just assume these randos don't? They parachute into organizations, systems, and services they are completely oblivious about, they antagonize and are outright hostile to the existing staff and procedures, they even try to push code without knowing a thing about anything, and this doesn't raise any red flags with you? > I think they can figure out a government ledger. Do you really know, though? I don't think so.
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- tmikaeld 2y agoAs an outsider trying to make sense of all this. Is America taking the hammer down on all types of spending because America is desperate to bring down debt from 120% of GDP?
- GaryNumanVevo 2y agoNot at all, it's mostly optics. The US DOD spends like $900 BILLION a year, and you don't see DOGE even attempting to touch that money.
- denvermullets 2y agoadding to this, they can't even pass an internal audit to account for where all that money is going. 7 years in a row they failed an audit.
- insane_dreamer 2y agoNot really. It's about cutting expenses so that he can pass a large tax cut (primarily benefiting corporations and the wealthy). No one is worried about the deficit anymore.
- ianburrell 2y agoThere isn't enough spending for them to cut the $2 trillion deficit. The federal spending is $6.75 trillion. Discretionary spending is $1.7 trillion, that is most of the departments and all of the military. The rest is entitlement spending that hard to be touched. The only way to balance budget is to cut taxes, but Trump wants tax cuts.
- tomrod 2y agoOn your last bullet, I think you mean raise taxes. Is that right?
- ianburrell 2y agoYeah, have to raise taxes to balance budget.
- amai 2y agoSomehow I‘m disappointed that George Hotz is not on the list.
- insane_dreamer 2y agoWould like to point out that "finding corruption" -- as Trump today stated was the purpose of King Elon' efforts (which is odd because I thought it was to cut "waste") is _exactly_ the way that Xi Jinping was able to get rid of all opposition in China after being chosen as Premier, to where he is now completely unopposed in anything he may want to do. (Was living in China during those years.) Beware.
- insane_dreamer 2y agoVought, the new head of OMB -- the agency which no one has heard of but which actually is extremely influential in terms of government agencies -- is one of the major authors of Project 2025. Let that sink in a bit. So yeah, Trump was lying about Project 2025 (but what else is new?)
- krishnazden 2y agoCopem.All those criticising doge team haven't created anything worthwhile. All these people secretly wanted twitter to fail post elons take over. Bigballz is much better than all those who are criticizing you. I have seen detrimental effects of usaid creating social havoc in other countries.