4 ms·

If we keep fighting about the same issues, we can’t move on to solve new problems. We’re in political purgatory and have been for quite some time.

nradov 2y ago
Have we ever not been in political purgatory? Some fundamental political issues such as federalism have been fought over since the founding of the republic. And that's not necessarily a bad thing.
- tdb7893 2y ago
  I don't think it's crazy to say politics now is different and more disfunctional than the past. Congress can't pass anything substantive and needed to change their own rules to even appoint judges, the Supreme Court has overturned many precedents, and it seems like a lot of the actual policy is executive orders (and also what the executive branch chooses to enforce or not). And that ignores things like accusations of election fraud and a million other different points of nonsense that are shockingly mainstream. The fact it's always been a mess doesn't mean it's not significantly more of a mess now than many times in the past (not that right now is the worst ever, it's hard to beat a civil war, but it's pretty bad).
- yard2010 2y ago
  Imagine people saying this when the Roman empire collapsed. They thought that just because the empire is strong and old it would last forever.
basementcat 2y ago
It is because we haven’t achieved consensus on these issues or there is a faction that believes they can get a better deal by holding out and continuing to fight.
- conception 2y ago
  Or it’s because factions believe that not solving issues benefits them more than solving them or reaching consensus.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- __MatrixMan__ 2y ago
  Consensus is bad for business, so we stick to platforms designed keep it at bay.
- righthand 2y ago
  It’s more futile than this, my parents are big Trumpers. My father watches a ton of Fox News and rants about how immigrants are flooding the cities. When shown data and statistics and pointing out Trumps blatant lying and the hysteria about it, my father will move the goal post, change the subject and say things like “I don’t like Trump but Biden is too old.” Okay I said, if Biden is too old who is chosen when he steps down? Kamala, who while qualified was chosen to gain vote. Is that the alternative you want? Silence. Trump is also too old and definitely showing his age but it doesn’t matter anymore because the goal post moves again. It’s pure radicalization and anything that can be labeled as a negative is rationalized to avoid regret. My mother remains 100% silent about politics. Which is equally as hard to have a conversation. So when you have people so radicalized they only put ear plugs in their ear, because they’ve been trained to want a war at home. They are too deep, what do we do? Wait until they die? What about the generations they’re radicalizing after them? These are tough questions in a world where people can’t be proud we even have any kind of infrastructure. People feel they deserve better when we already have the best circumstances to be alive. There is no consensus because there is very little left to strive for in the eyes of the average citizen. This is why we can’t have single payer healthcare, because our populations are too busy fighting for their radicalized ideas.
  - WillPostForFood 2y ago
    rants about how immigrants are flooding the cities. When shown data and statistics and pointing out Trumps blatant lying What? You are more misinformed than your father if you don't know that illegal aliens are flooding into the country. Trying to choose a neutral source for you. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c0jp4xqx2z3o https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c0jp4xqx2z3o Since January 2021, when Joe Biden came to office, there have been more than 10 million encounters - about 8 million came over the southwest land border with Mexico. Under the Trump administration, there were 2.4 million encounters on this border.
    - daveguy 2y ago
      And what makes you think the Biden administration wasn't just doing a better job? Or Trump administration wasn't underreporting to make him look better. If you don't test, it isn't there!
- LastTrain 2y ago
  Name the faction to which you refer and what they are holding out for. Come on, be brave now.
tbrownaw 2y ago
> If we keep fighting about the same issues, we can’t move on to solve new problems. Why? I wouldn't think that everything new has a hard dependency on things that are stuck.
- al_borland 2y ago
  It’s more of an issue of time and focus, not dependencies.
bagels 2y ago
We get to solve new problems, the ones that are currently being created.
toss1 2y ago
Stop 'both-sides-ing' it. Only one party has been pushing for minority rule (by their own party) authoritarianism for over a decade, and now having gained control is running roughshod over all checks & balances and corrupting all institutions to service their executive(s). This is the big-standard authoritarian playbook. In functioning democracies the three branches of govt (executive, legislative judiciary), and the branches of society, industry, business, finance, press, academy, religion, social groups, sports, etc. are all independent. Under authoritarian regimes, they are corrupted & coerced (threat of prosecution or ability to pay & serve to avoid prosecution, or ability to raid the country's coffers) by illegitimate use of the power of govt to serve the executive. That is where we are now, and will be until the people make it stop.

nradov 2y ago

Have we ever not been in political purgatory? Some fundamental political issues such as federalism have been fought over since the founding of the republic. And that's not necessarily a bad thing.

tdb7893 2y ago
I don't think it's crazy to say politics now is different and more disfunctional than the past. Congress can't pass anything substantive and needed to change their own rules to even appoint judges, the Supreme Court has overturned many precedents, and it seems like a lot of the actual policy is executive orders (and also what the executive branch chooses to enforce or not). And that ignores things like accusations of election fraud and a million other different points of nonsense that are shockingly mainstream. The fact it's always been a mess doesn't mean it's not significantly more of a mess now than many times in the past (not that right now is the worst ever, it's hard to beat a civil war, but it's pretty bad).
yard2010 2y ago
Imagine people saying this when the Roman empire collapsed. They thought that just because the empire is strong and old it would last forever.

basementcat 2y ago

It is because we haven’t achieved consensus on these issues or there is a faction that believes they can get a better deal by holding out and continuing to fight.

conception 2y ago
Or it’s because factions believe that not solving issues benefits them more than solving them or reaching consensus.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
__MatrixMan__ 2y ago
Consensus is bad for business, so we stick to platforms designed keep it at bay.
righthand 2y ago
It’s more futile than this, my parents are big Trumpers. My father watches a ton of Fox News and rants about how immigrants are flooding the cities. When shown data and statistics and pointing out Trumps blatant lying and the hysteria about it, my father will move the goal post, change the subject and say things like “I don’t like Trump but Biden is too old.” Okay I said, if Biden is too old who is chosen when he steps down? Kamala, who while qualified was chosen to gain vote. Is that the alternative you want? Silence. Trump is also too old and definitely showing his age but it doesn’t matter anymore because the goal post moves again. It’s pure radicalization and anything that can be labeled as a negative is rationalized to avoid regret. My mother remains 100% silent about politics. Which is equally as hard to have a conversation. So when you have people so radicalized they only put ear plugs in their ear, because they’ve been trained to want a war at home. They are too deep, what do we do? Wait until they die? What about the generations they’re radicalizing after them? These are tough questions in a world where people can’t be proud we even have any kind of infrastructure. People feel they deserve better when we already have the best circumstances to be alive. There is no consensus because there is very little left to strive for in the eyes of the average citizen. This is why we can’t have single payer healthcare, because our populations are too busy fighting for their radicalized ideas.
- WillPostForFood 2y ago
  rants about how immigrants are flooding the cities. When shown data and statistics and pointing out Trumps blatant lying What? You are more misinformed than your father if you don't know that illegal aliens are flooding into the country. Trying to choose a neutral source for you. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c0jp4xqx2z3o https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c0jp4xqx2z3o Since January 2021, when Joe Biden came to office, there have been more than 10 million encounters - about 8 million came over the southwest land border with Mexico. Under the Trump administration, there were 2.4 million encounters on this border.
  - daveguy 2y ago
    And what makes you think the Biden administration wasn't just doing a better job? Or Trump administration wasn't underreporting to make him look better. If you don't test, it isn't there!
LastTrain 2y ago
Name the faction to which you refer and what they are holding out for. Come on, be brave now.

tbrownaw 2y ago

> If we keep fighting about the same issues, we can’t move on to solve new problems. Why? I wouldn't think that everything new has a hard dependency on things that are stuck.

al_borland 2y ago
It’s more of an issue of time and focus, not dependencies.

bagels 2y ago

We get to solve new problems, the ones that are currently being created.

toss1 2y ago

Stop 'both-sides-ing' it. Only one party has been pushing for minority rule (by their own party) authoritarianism for over a decade, and now having gained control is running roughshod over all checks & balances and corrupting all institutions to service their executive(s). This is the big-standard authoritarian playbook. In functioning democracies the three branches of govt (executive, legislative judiciary), and the branches of society, industry, business, finance, press, academy, religion, social groups, sports, etc. are all independent. Under authoritarian regimes, they are corrupted & coerced (threat of prosecution or ability to pay & serve to avoid prosecution, or ability to raid the country's coffers) by illegitimate use of the power of govt to serve the executive. That is where we are now, and will be until the people make it stop.