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TikTok tells staff impacted by wildfires to use sick hours if they can't work
- aurareturn 2y agoI don't see what the problem is.
- yulker 2y agoIt's out of touch and callous.
- happytoexplain 2y agoTaken at face value, it's hideously evil, and we should fight as hard as possible to prevent this ideology from intruding any further into the culture of American employers or employers of American workers. If there is context you feel is missing, you should add it.
- aurareturn 2y agoWhat would you do?
- minimaxir 2y agoLet affected people take time off work without requiring them to use sick hours or PTO.
- paulcole 2y agoAre they being paid during that time? If so, what’s your limit on that?
- erulabs 2y agoYour limit is how long it takes them to find somewhere safe for their family. I evacuated and got back online later that day. Several leaders reached out to me to ask if I needed anything or if I wanted to take time off. In response, I feel more allegiance, and want to work harder. I love my job even more than I did 3 days ago. Treat others how you would like to be treated. Respect breeds respect.
- callc 2y agoI’m happy that your org seems respectful and humane. That’s incredibly rare nowadays.
- johnnyanmac 2y agoIdeally yes. And the limit is until things are stable. But if you need a discrete answer, probably a few months? If we're in an emergency situation as a tech industry for more than a month, something much dire than business has happened. Many tech companies rebounded from COVID in a few months times.
- FateOfNations 2y agoThe ideology that the employer-employee relationship is fundamentally one where labor is exchanged for money? The most I expect is, "Don't worry about things at work. Take care of yourself and your family. You are welcome to use any accumulated leave you have available, and your job will be here for you when you get back on your feet." My perspective may be colored a bit by working in an environment with strict labor cost accounting where labor is accounted for down to the tenth hour (even for salaried-exempt employees), and there isn't some magical slush fund that can be used to pay for what would otherwise be unpaid leave. We do have "disaster leave" for salaried employees, but it's on a "work extra hours over the next X weeks to make up for it" basis, where X is a reasonable number given the nature of the disaster. For run-of-the-mill "snow days," it's typically 4 weeks. Taking PTO is also an option, including running up to a 40-hour negative balance. Thankfully, I don't have to deal with any of these RTO shenanigans.
- yallpendantools 2y ago> And yet, TikTok’s LA-based employees are being told to either continue their work from home or use their personal/sick days if that’s not possible, while the company’s LA office remains closed due to power outages caused by high winds. In other words, in this case, employer is unable to provide a safe work environment (i.e., is not even "on their feet" at the moment) and their answer to that is to force employees to compensate for it using their own time off. I would call this behavior vindictive but in my book, to be vindictive first you need to have a soul.
- FateOfNations 2y agoA natural disaster is neither the employee's nor the employer's fault. If a business's operations are interrupted due to a natural disaster (or for any other reason) and it cannot productively use an employee, it is appropriate to furlough or lay off that employee until operations can resume. Impacted employees can seek temporary or permanent employment elsewhere and, if eligible, apply for unemployment insurance compensation. The one-week waiting period for unemployment insurance is waived as part of state of emergency declarations. If an employer wants to pay employees to stay home and do nothing because no work is available, potentially to avoid losing valuable employees, they can do that, but they are not expected to. If working remotely is feasible, it can be mutually beneficial to both the employer and employee, but like everything employment-related, it's also voluntary on both sides of the deal.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- dqv 2y ago> this ideology from intruding any further into the culture of American employers or employers of American workers. Are you doing satire? This is already the status quo for American employers. Do you mean American employers of the labor aristocracy? It is hideously evil, but your wording conjures the idea that US company culture hasn't been corrupted (even with the "any further" part). It has already gone too far. The only thing that's truly interesting to me is that it's a Chinese-influenced company and China hasn't used the last decade to do socialism diplomacy through TikTok.
- yard2010 2y agoThe problem is evil sociopathy. Ironically, you can't see it.
- Waterluvian 2y agoToday my employer’s HR sent out an email telling everyone to put their family’s safety first and work can wait. And I kind of did a mental “well, yeah… you’d have to be a real ghoul to think otherwise,” perplexed by the very idea that HR would feel the need to say it at all. Guess I was wrong.
- duxup 2y agoSome people will willingly work themselves into a mess without their employer’s help. I worked at a place where I made the 24/7 schedule for a team. Part of my job was to make sure everyone took a minimum of PTO. Lotta people would take none, ever if given the chance.
- zdragnar 2y agoIn the early days of my career, I took very little PTO and didn't mind at all. I was young, no dependents, and was growing by leaps and bounds. Forcing me to take PTO would not have been beneficial, as I wouldn't have utilized it properly. Now, today is a very different story, and I use it responsibly, but I'm at a very different stage in my life.
- paulcole 2y ago> Forcing me to take PTO would not have been beneficial, as I wouldn't have utilized it properly. Just so I know, what’s the proper utilization of PTO?
- skeeter2020 2y agonot GP but I assume they meant they would still do work very similar to their job, or the job itself. This is very common for lots of young techies who don't have huge social circles outside of work, but arguably not a great use of time off.
- zdragnar 2y agoSibling comment mostly nailed it for me. I was self taught as a programmer and improving my skills (and generally enjoying programming) consumed me for several years. The whole point of compelling people to take PTO is for the mental health benefits associated with not working- decompressing, resetting, call it whatever you want. I didn't have other hobbies, didn't have money for traveling, and didn't have anyone to do those things with. My social circle was more or less as obsessed as I was. Most evenings were spent watching TV together while we worked on our laptops, either on side projects for fun or actual work. Had I taken more PTO, my behavior in my off time would not have been any different than that of my work time. I wouldn't have gotten the benefit supposedly derived from being forced to take PTO. The one exception was a few days off to do some home renovation work that I didn't want to try to fit into evenings or weekends.
- xilni 2y agoRough given how little PTO they have for a tech company to begin with. Our HQ (over 3k people) is in the LA area, CEO posted on slack offering up to 10k for any fire related relocation costs during this time.
- linotype 2y agoWhich company? That sounds very generous.
- brcmthrowaway 2y agoProbably EA
- maximilianburke 2y agoEA's HQ is in the Bay Area (Redwood Shores)
- Rebelgecko 2y agoMy uneducated guess is snap
- paulcole 2y agoI would bet Spotify.
- black_13 2y ago
- declan_roberts 2y ago> Employees who can work from home still must go into their “My RTO” portal, where they manage their sick time, and change their work-from-home status to “natural disaster” to not be penalized. This won’t subtract from their PSSL hours, though. So was this just headline bait? It's a sick day but not counted against you.
- zephyreon 2y agoI read this as they still need to WFH and just need to indicate they’re doing so in the portal so they aren’t penalized.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- Cyph0n 2y agoStill very strange, no? Changing my WFH status wouldn’t be top of mind in a disaster situation.
- awsanswers 2y ago[flagged]
- tbrownaw 2y agoIs it really any more of an imposition than your employer wanting to be notified of you need to take bereavement leave or spend a few days in the hospital?
- SamoyedFurFluff 2y agoIf I’m in the hospital unexpectedly the last thing on my mind is logging into a “my RTO portal”, Jesus
- boomboomsubban 2y ago
- ralph84 2y agoImport Chinese companies, get Chinese working conditions.
- ilrwbwrkhv 2y agoI mean this is basically how Elon and Vivek want Americans to work. Otherwise the H1Bs are coming to take your job.
- consumer451 2y agoJason, the alleged "lefty" on the All-in podcast is on record as really wanting to get this going here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/996_working_hour_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/996_working_hour_system
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- wat10000 2y agoThis is how millions of Americans already work. Millions have no paid sick time at all (and even unpaid sick leave can be iffy) and millions more get less generous PTO than this. The only remarkable thing is that this policy is bad for a tech company. Tech is special because demand for specialized workers is high and supply is low. But in most other industries, this would be standard behavior. Workers in other industries deserve better, but it’s also important to remember that the HN bubble isn’t the norm.
- scarface_74 2y agoJust to back up your comment with a citation. https://www.americanprogress.org/article/the-state-of-paid-sick-time-in-the-u-s-in-2023/ https://www.americanprogress.org/article/the-state-of-paid-s...
- addicted 2y agoI don’t understand why people on this forum, who are 90+% in favor of remote work and don’t believe physical presence in an office matters at all, believe they companies will choose to replace H1-B employees with different people when they can simply hire those exact same H1-B employees at a quarter of the cost when they are forced to return to their home countries? The H1-B logically displaces offshoring, not citizens. Otherwise it’s a massive coincidence that the H1-B visa happens to be used overwhelmingly by the industry that has seen the highest increase in salaries by far for Americans over the past 2 decades.
- righthand 2y agoThe employees should unionize in response and demand better benefits and support during emergency situations. This is the kind of abuse USA citizens think is: deserved, earned, self-inflicted.
- zephyreon 2y agoCan’t say I’m surprised given how ByteDance is their parent. There’s a Netflix documentary called American Factory that illustrates just how different the work culture is in China vs the U.S. Hope they change their mind and give these folks free PTO.
- barbazoo 2y agoAre their sick days limited? If not, no harm done?
- FateOfNations 2y ago10 days per year.
- cma 2y agoAnd these don't actually count towards them according to the article text, not headline.
- yallpendantools 2y ago?? > TikTok’s LA employees have 10 paid sick/personal (PSSL) days per year in addition to 15 PTO (paid time off/vacation) days > This week, TikTok’s LA staff are being asked to use their personal/sick days if they cannot work from home due to power or Wi-Fi outages, or if they’re under evacuation orders ... This leaves them fewer days later in the year to use in case of an actual illness or other personal emergency, like staying home to care for a sick child.
- brian-armstrong 2y agoYou might want to re-read TFA rather than reposting the same wrong information in every thread
- kuon 2y agoWait? In the US you can have "limited sick days"? But what happen if you have something bad and must be off work for 6 months? Who pays you?
- scarface_74 2y agoYou either have savings or you pay for this as part of your health insurance electives. https://www.adp.com/resources/articles-and-insights/articles/s/short-term-disability.aspx https://www.adp.com/resources/articles-and-insights/articles...
- cevn 2y ago> Additionally, after the story was published, TikTok enabled a feature that now alerts everyone in a company-wide Lark channel — a Slack competitor from TikTok parent ByteDance — when a screenshot is taken.) Luckily their employees don't have phones.
- the_jeremy 2y agoIt's rare that a single sentence can tell me so clearly whether or not I'd be willing to work at a company. The actual article could be misleading (it's not obvious if setting their RTO status to "natural disaster" status means they expend their sick days or not), but this is so clearly petty micromanagement that there's really no ambiguity.
- gcr 2y agoEmployees are penalized for PTO if they cannot work from home (e.g. wifi issues, evac orders) If they can still work from home, they can use the "natural disaster" exception.
- scarface_74 2y agoIf they are working why do they need an exception?
- DandyDev 2y agoBecause they normally have mandatory work-from-office days during which you're not allowed to WFH. So now you can get an exception for that
- 3eb7988a1663 2y agoI might take a dozen screenshots a day for various reasons not connected to communicating with journalists. This seems like a low signal to noise way of monitoring employees.
- scarface_74 2y ago
- ummonk 2y agoJust a reminder to people: if a company is monitoring for screenshots, you can take photos with your personal phone to send to journalists.
- markus_zhang 2y agoThose photos may still have embedded signatures that track.
- nwellinghoff 2y agoThat would be next level corp spyware. Can you point to a enterprise offering that sells that?
- EGreg 2y agoWhy, sure we can: https://www.xsecuritas.com/ https://www.xsecuritas.com/ https://zecurion.com/blog/screen-watermarks-and-screen-photo-detector-how-to-discover-insider-threats-before-they-become-an-incident/ https://zecurion.com/blog/screen-watermarks-and-screen-photo...
- voganmother42 2y agoSpy v spy, It has a phone detector, but will it detect my smart glasses or my nest cam…or the camera secreted in my bookcase capturing my screen?
- jquery 2y agoThey could place nearly invisible watermarks that only a camera would notice. Probably your safest bet is to deep fry the image. Pictures of pictures with high compression turned on.
- zmgsabst 2y agoFor a wavelet based stamp, you might have to stamp your own pattern on top so it no longer cleanly reads. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1877050915032354 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S187705091...
- aaron695 2y ago[dead]
- callc 2y agoThis is why we need our governments to protect the people. It is exuberantly clear that some companies will treat their workers with the minimum amount of decency up to the point of illegality, or past that if they can get away with it. How about an “asshole employer” gov program? Society needs to fight back against those doing harm to society.
- autobodie 2y agoThe goverment is effectively the employers. They can override everything they don't like or can't find a way around. If it ever seems otherwise, you're missing part of the story.
- yard2010 2y agoIn this case the other government is the employer.
- johnnyanmac 2y agoThey can, but it's slow and easily bribe able to change 2 or 3 minds to override the entire shebang.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- orhmeh09 2y agoPartner works at a county agency. There are 1-2 weather-related days off you can use, but if you experience more weather than that in a year you are free to use your vacation or take unpaid time off. This applies also if the job site is closed.
- friendzis 2y agoA wet dream that will not become tangible reality in near future. The inexistent labor protections are one of the major economic drivers of USA. When companies can lay off whole departments nilly-willy (we had some discussions here on HN), they can take on riskier endeavors than their European counterparts at the same cost.
- emh68 2y agoHow are other companies handling this?
- tevon 2y agoSome user here called “cma” commented twice about how “this headline is libel”. Both comments are now deleted/taken down. Do we have a Chinese gov shill in the mix?
- d1sxeyes 2y agoNo, just someone who realised their mistake, I think. Edit: I mean yes of course, this is the internet, but I doubt that’s what cma was doing.
- scarface_74 2y ago>TikTok’s LA employees have 10 paid sick/personal (PSSL) days per year in addition to 15 PTO (paid time off/vacation) days… as TikTok’s strict return-to-office policy requires employees to work from the office a minimum of three days per week. (The days of the week are chosen by the team and can’t be swapped for other days if needed.) Is this amount of strictness normal for the large tech companies? I’ve only worked for one - Amazon - and my position was “field by design” and didn’t come under any RTO mandates until this year. I left in late 2023.