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Fixing America's elevators is becoming a heavy lift
- SoftTalker 2y ago“Nearly 1.1 million Americans end up in the emergency room every year due to incidents stemming from taking the stairs” I used this reasoning to argue that a “take the stairs” campaign by the healthy workplace committee at work was a bad idea. They didn’t want to hear it.
- krunck 2y agoI have coworkers who are in this risk group because they never take the elevator...or do anything that requires effort where a no-effort bypass exists.
- AnarchismIsCool 2y ago2.2 Million people are injured in bathrooms every year, we should ban those too... https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6022a1.htm https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6022a1.htm
- nradov 2y agoEvery year, several people die from falling out of bed.
- readyplayernull 2y agoWait, we need to know the statistics of people who died by reading alarming statistics.
- rbanffy 2y ago93.7% of those were made on the spot.
- bdangubic 2y agothat is a terrible argument to not use the stairs :)
- cogman10 2y agoStair height matters, most businesses have a spiral staircase with platforms at each floor at a minimum (usually every half floor). That already cuts down the injury risk. Further, for people under 60 a significant factor in falling down stairs is alcohol (about 30%). Finally, if you look at who ends up in the emergency room, it's generally old people with brittle bones. In fact, that appears to be where the 1.1 million number comes from, people over 65. https://nfsi.org/national-floor-safety-institute-comments-on-stairway-falls/ https://nfsi.org/national-floor-safety-institute-comments-on... If you are sober, younger than 65, and capable, taking the stairs is a good choice. It's a decent low impact cardio exercise.
- SoftTalker 2y agoOK, but still more sober, young, capable people slip and fall and get hurt on stairs than using an elevator. And my office had its share of older, unfit people (not sure about drinkers).
- cogman10 2y ago> OK, but still more sober, young, capable people slip and fall and get hurt on stairs Yes and statistically, that's rare and those individuals will be fine [1]. The danger increases exponentially with age primarily because bones get brittle and muscles weaker as you get older. > And my office had its share of older, unfit people (not sure about drinkers). Who I specifically mentioned should probably not take the stairs. I'm not on an anti elevator crusade. I'm also not universalizing stair usage. However, using the slip and fall statistic to say "take the stairs is a bad idea" is simply a bad argument. [1] https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/all-injuries/deaths-by-demographics/deaths-by-age/data-details/ https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/all-injuries/deaths-by-demograph...
- SoftTalker 2y agoAfter the first person gets hurt, and calls an injury lawyer with a story of "they told me to take the stairs" you may reconsider whether this is a bad argument.
- aaron695 2y ago[dead]
- nothercastle 2y agoDuopoly on elevators means no competition. Duopoly exists due to excessive regulation. Some regulation is good but sometimes it gets out of hand and no competition is possible
- fieldcny 2y agoDuopoly’s produce excessive regulation as a means of protection. Duopolies grow out slow growth, once the pie stops growing stealing customers is hard and is a zero sum game, reaching a comfortable stasis which then becomes the status quo is how organisms in these environments behave
- m463 2y ago> comfortable stasis man, someone needs to disrupt the elevator business. For example, why can't personal homes have elevators? The arguments of older people not being able to take stairs or getting hurt apply at home. Or maybe busboys for groceries from the garage to the kitchen? Make them go sideways like the enterprise (the ncc-1701 enterprise)
- brk 2y agoHome elevators are a thing. We had one in our previous house, as did many other homes in the neighborhood. They are not terribly expensive, about $12k/floor during construction.
- skissane 2y agoNot the US, but my dad just got one installed in his two story home, cost him around US$25k for installation of the lift/elevator itself, although he incurred a few grand more on modifications to create a space to install it in (would have been more but he did some of them himself). Not a new house, around 40-50 years old. In part, he got the idea because one of his neighbours had already done it. Plus his partner has dementia and climbing stairs has been becoming an ever increasing challenge for her.
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- add-sub-mul-div 2y ago> "Everyone is born needing an elevator, and if they're lucky they die needing one too," What does this saying mean? And what's with the weird article formatting? Is it targeted at people with short attention spans or is it some kind of AI garbage?
- _dark_matter_ 2y agoIt means they live long enough to reach a point where stairs are no longer possible for them. Not sure I agree necessarily but the point makes sense - live to old age. It serves the elderly, of which we all want to be one (eventually).
- add-sub-mul-div 2y agoOh, I see. Thanks.
- SoftTalker 2y agoNot much point in living if you’re that incapacitated.
- batch12 2y agoThat's a pretty insensitive point of view. I hope you live long enough to be able to make this choice.
- bluGill 2y agoThat depends. I have known some where they can't do anything so what is the point. However I know many who are no longer able to walk well but they can still do most of their hobbies and so overall still enjoy life.
- add-sub-mul-div 2y agoThere's no point to living if you're in a wheelchair? If you get around with a walker?
- massysett 2y agoStories like this make me a bit suspicious. It reads like some publicist - for the building owners maybe? or for elevator repair companies lobbying for something? - contacted the author or the website and said "I've got a great story for you, America is in an ELEVATOR CRISIS!" At first the writer yawned, but worked on this piece sporadically when there was nothing else to do, and several months later there was a slow news day, so might as well put this up. I can understand saying there are some issues here, but "elevator crisis"? Yeah OK.
- batiudrami 2y agoIt’s just Axios’ (annoying) house style. All their articles are like this.
- synack 2y agoSounds like the author got stuck in an elevator and decided to kill time by writing about elevators on their phone.
- MoreMoore 2y agoI don't understand. Stories like what? The article points out a problem and the risks and the consequences. What are you talking about? Is there anything you specifically object to? Do you think elevator maintenance isn't an issue in the US? Have you seen reporting elsewhere saying it isn't an issue or it's overblown? Or is this just a vibe thing? Why is the quality of HN comments becoming this bad? Your comment took zero effort to write. It's just "nuh-uh".
- bluGill 2y agoDid you read that article? It was light on details, made a bunch of claims without giving any indication of enough investigation to believe those are facts. I've ready many HN comments that are more believable.
- MoreMoore 2y agoI read the article. It provided pretty much all the facts required to get a sense of the problem. All Axios articles are written like this and it's great to get a no-nonsense or no fluff glimpse of a particular topic I wouldn't have found out about otherwise. If you want an exposé, this is the wrong site.
- eadmund 2y ago> "Everyone is born needing an elevator, and if they're lucky they die needing one too," says Stephen Smith I cannot understand what this could mean. > the U.S. would benefit from federal elevator standards What would the constitutional basis for those be?
- xethos 2y agoImplication is along the lines of "We all need accessibility features sometimes" , I assume. Show a newborn the stairs and see how they do vs an elevator (though I assume the buttons would flummox them), and extreme age will make stairs difficult (whereas being run down by a motorist at 45 prevents needing an elevator in old age) I think it's a little bit forced with the elevator example, but I fully agree with the argument that "We all need the accessibility features sometimes". It can be something as small as needing crutches for a sprain (elevator), your arms being full of groceries or bringing coffee by for coworkers (door-opening button), or because your toddler struggles with stairs (and a ramp is less of a tumble if they take one)
- bluGill 2y agoCongress can set standards for weight and measures. So they could set a standard car size or something like that - the question is should they. I don't know.
- throwup238 2y ago> What would the constitutional basis for those be? Interstate commerce just like almost everything else.
- 1over137 2y agoIt means: • if you are lucky enough to live until old, you'll likely need an elevator. • if you are unlucky enough to die young, you'll likely not need an elevator.
- docdeek 2y agoNot sure, but I understood this phrase to mean that maternity wards are in hospitals that almost always come with elevators. The same with end of life care, people will likely be in a building with an elevator rather than outside.
- sema4hacker 2y agoA couple of years ago we bought a building with an idle freight elevator. The elevator was overdue for test/inspection (required every 5 years) to remain legal. The service company quoted $5k for the test/inspection, which would not include the cost of any subsequent necessary repairs. Since we didn't need the lift, we decided to just leave it out of service, but the local OSHA office still requires $645/year to leave it marked idle. What a racket.
- xnx 2y agoThe article barely mentions unions which are a driver of extra cost. The International Union of Elevator Constructors (IUEC) requires that elevators be assembled on-site rather than prefabricated in many cases for job security.
- mmooss 2y agoWhy is it better to reduce income and working conditions for workers rather than to reduce income for building owners? Why shouldn't the workers be paid well? Cutting their pay and working conditions probably won't help much with the labor shortage either.
- xnx 2y ago"In a story beloved by economists it’s said that Milton Friedman was once visiting China when he was shocked to see that, instead of modern tractors and earth movers, thousands of workers were toiling away building a canal with shovels. He asked his host, a government bureaucrat, why more machines weren’t being used. The bureaucrat replied, 'You don’t understand. This is a jobs program.' To which Milton responded, 'Oh, I thought you were trying to build a canal. If it’s jobs you want, you should give these workers spoons, not shovels!'" https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2019/08/spoons-are-in-aisle-9.html https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2019/08/sp...
- mmooss 2y agoMilton Friedman isn't beloved by all, and I'm not talking about reducing efficiency.
- bluGill 2y agoPrefab would increase the working conditions of workers. A factory is generally less dangerous than a construction site. Workers should be paid fairly - paying them too much robs everyone else. (what is fair is subject to debate of course)
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- laughing_man 2y agoYet another reason to prefer rural and suburban living. Can't remember the last time I took an elevator.
- mmooss 2y agoAgain, lack of labor and supply of parts; you hear the same thing over and over. Where are this great capitalist economy and superhuman capitalists? There is demand; why isn't our marketplaced supplying the need? Something doesn't add up.
- bluGill 2y agoI don't know elevators but in my industry the parts are electronic chips that we bought from someone else and now they don't make. There was nothing wrong with the HVAC controller we designed 20-30 years ago, but it used a no longer available 16 bit CPU (for what it does an 8 bit CPU would work). We have a new one for new stuff with all new code (no longer written in assembly), but it isn't a drop in replacement for the old one.
- rangestransform 2y ago> lack of labour Thanks unions
- mmooss 2y agoWould you like to support your two word claim?
- rbanffy 2y agoIt’s time buildings have RAIEs: redundant arrays of independent elevators.
- bluGill 2y agoMost do. While you do see buildings with one elevator, almost all of them have more than one right next to each other. While it is theoretically possible to make an elevator that pair that uses the opposite car as a counterweight and thus each must stop at all floors that is rare (the only examples I can think of are funicular trains that stop at the top and bottom only - while technically elevators not trains everyone thinks of them as trains)
- rbanffy 2y agoRAIE-0 with just two elevators is obviously not enough. We need them with more redundant elevators.
- kkfx 2y agoThe point is another: why. We need to consume less, so we need new buildings, and that's will be as well in the future, so we need to been able to rebuild at little costs, HOMES and SHEDS respond to such needs, not high rise. High rise nowadays respond only to construction industry need to maximize their own profits.