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The context in which this happened matters a lot. There have been tensions between the FIDE organization and top players like Carlsen since the latter have bee
by david-gpu 2y ago
The context in which this happened matters a lot.
There have been tensions between the FIDE organization and top players like Carlsen since the latter have been promoting an alternative chess organization around Freestyle chess (aka Chesss960), which has slightly different rules.
I.e. this is less about "dress code enforcement" and it is more about "Carlsen is fed up with the FIDE organization in general".
- zmgsabst 2y agoVery late concurring comment: Hikaru mentioned there had been drama between FIDE and himself about having cameras at the same tournament — and he felt FIDE refused to give him airtime on their streams. Hikaru also had drama with FIDE about the Freestyle league. I think both happening at the same tournament, which they had threatened to boycott if FIDE didn’t permit them to also play Freestyle league, indicates this is political.
- SlonBog 2y agoAlso the context is Magnus wasn’t best at this tournament. He was somewhere in middle in table and had less chances of converting. He has history of throwing tantrums when on tilt (Seinqfield 2022)
- david-gpu 2y agoIt is also his first Christmas after his mother's passing, so I think it is fair to say that he's under a lot of stress already. We will see how other players react today. Will they wear jeans in protest?
- tromp 2y agoWhy would you protest against enforcement of the rules that everyone was aware of and agreed to by participating? I agree that rules against jeans make limited sense. It makes more sense to forbid worn down or shabby looking attire. But one should abide by the rules one signs up to.
- wizzwizz4 2y ago> But one should abide by the rules one signs up to. If it's the only competition in town, and the rules are unjust, and the organisation in question considers you #1 chess player in the world… I can hardly imagine better circumstances for civil disobedience.
- sadeshmukh 2y agoI thought this only happened 9 or so games in?
- wongarsu 2y agoBecause Magnus only appeared in Jeans after a break. He was out doing something with a sponsor or such, and came back wearing the same pants
- delroth 2y agoHe was 2.5/3 the day he was fined (then forbidden to play) for his dress code violation, and was around rank 25 after game 8, one point behind first place. Not a winning performance but not particularly bad either.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- stavros 2y agoHow come? I thought he was the best in the world by a fair margin.
- n2d4 2y agoIn classical chess, yes; in Blitz and Rapid he's still one of the best, but there's lots of good competition.
- stavros 2y agoAhh I missed that this wasn't classical, thank you.
- fastasucan 2y agoHe is both the current rapid (5 times) and blitz (7 times) world champion. He is more than one of the best.
- ANewFormation 2y agoHis edge in rapid/blitz is generally seen as much larger than in classical. One of the biggest examples of this was in his title defense against Caruana. Every game of that match had been drawn, and in the final game Magnus had a very promising position where he could squeeze with basically no risk. Instead he offered a draw which was immediately accepted. That sent the game to rapid tie breaks where he casually butchered Caruana 3-0.
- ANewFormation 2y agoExactly, many top players (probably all of them, but some only speak on such issues indirectly) feel FIDE is increasingly power tripping and somewhat out of touch with both the game and the interests of the players. During Kasparov's era sentiment was similar and ultimately an entirely new players' association with their own world championship cycle was created. In the end they reunified with FIDE, but we're back on the trajectory for something like that to happen again. I would wager alot that chess.com is strategizing behind the scenes about ways to become that replacement.
- sourcepluck 2y agoDoes anyone have any links to political analysis of what's going on with chess.com, and its involvement in various scandals? I think your wager has something to it, in any case. I think there'd be material there for an investigative journalist (if such a thing still exists to get out the old whiteboard and start figuring out connections and trying to piece together what might be going on behind the scenes. In any case, there's a lot of money involved.
- sourcepluck 2y agoEww, an unclosed parenthesis. Horrid! The Lisp gods will not be happy. Excuse me, HN people!
- manmal 2y agoWhy didn’t you edit it at the time?
- sourcepluck 2y agoDidn't re-read, of course
- Someone 2y agoChances are there also is a commercial angle to it. Magnus has commercial interests in https://playmagnusgroup.com/ https://playmagnusgroup.com/, which is somewhat at competition with the FIDE.
- soegaard 2y agoIf I understand correctly Play Magnus Group was acquired by chess.com in 2022. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Play_Magnus_Group https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Play_Magnus_Group
- fnqi8ckfek 2y ago[dead]
- FrustratedMonky 2y agoSure. Beef with an organization. But if you are going to bother signing up, is 'jeans' really the hill to die on? If the beef is with the organization, just boycott altogether. Otherwise, just put on some pants. EDIT: Perhaps the downvotes are because of disagreement with methods of protest? What brings greater attention to your cause? 1. A boycott, you just don't go to the event? And make a press statement about it, that probably doesn't get any headlines. or 2. Sign up, go, then angrily get disqualified, based on some stupid rule, which gets a lot of headlines, and attention focused on silly rules of the organization? Guess, if the goal was to effect change, then maybe this was the correct move. But if it was just being pissi, then why bother signing up, you know the rules, so just don't go.
- reaperducer 2y agoOtherwise, just put on some pants. I agree. This isn't high school rebellion. Is the real world. Adults dress appropriately for different places and different times. You can be denied admission to a restaurant, a business, an office meeting, or even a concert for not dressing appropriately. This is no different. Grow up and put on some pants. Be sloppy in your own home.
- ruthmarx 2y agoJeans are pants and wearing them isn't sloppy.
- SoftTalker 2y agoI've had jobs where I'd absolutely be sent home if I turned up wearing jeans. Might be a little less likely these days but there are many jobs and situations where this still applies. It's also about showing respect to the host, you dress nicely. Would you wear jeans to church or to a wedding?
- FrustratedMonky 2y agoI agree. Just a decade ago, jeans would have me escorted from work. The business dress code was 'pants', jeans were not allowed. Everyone is arguing about 'jean's not being a big deal. And, all dress codes are wrong. So, can a female player wear a bikini? By the arguments here, then yes, that should be allowed. Would it interfere with game play? I think yes. Can someone wear a bright orange Sarang with blinking lights? How do you draw the line? Doesn't there need to be a line somewhere so there isn't chaos? It's just that todays generation now thinks 'jeans' are ok. 20 years ago they were not.
- vikingerik 2y agoJust to clarify on the facts, as gathered from reddit threads: He wasn't trying to protest the dress code or make a scene, it wasn't on his mind at all. He had been out for an appearance with a sponsor during a break, then came back to the venue for the next round, and didn't notice that he was wearing jeans and it didn't cross his mind that that would be a violation. Then he was told to change, and there wasn't enough time for him to go do that before the upcoming round. He thought he was told he could do it either after that round or for the next day, but then was told he would be excluded from that round, and at that point he said f--- it and withdrew entirely. The controversy was about exactly how the penalty is imposed. The rule is a fine for the first violation and disqualification for multiple. It wasn't clear if his appearance for the day would count as one violation (so he could just incur the fine and wear correct clothing tomorrow), or if each round would be a separate violation. It also wasn't clear if he could play while in violation or would be excluded from each round until he changed. Precedent from other events wasn't clear for either of these. The headline of "disqualified" is wrong and did not happen - he chose to withdraw.
- QuantumGood 2y agoAdditional info: • He chose not to contest it, for which there is a clear protocol, and simply withdrew. • Based on two previous well-publicized incidents, it DID cross his mind that it would be a violation.
- QuantumGood 2y ago... and now FIDE has chosen to allow jeans in the remainder of the event. And it appears Magnus will play. "The principle is simple: it is still required to follow the official dress-code, but elegant minor deviations (that may, in particular, include appropriate jeans matching the jacket) are allowed."
- QuantumGood 2y agoA key comment from Magnus: "They were saying that jeans were generally not allowed. If it's generally not allowed, that must mean that there must be exceptions. And if I, with a decent attempt at an outfit apart from that, didn't meet that exception, I don't see what would, frankly."
- qq66 2y agoThe other piece of context that's worth noting is that Carlsen is not as good as he used to be (he's still the best player in the world, but not by as big of a margin as he was 5-10 years ago) and that he seems to getting increasingly exasperated with chess itself. Every GOAT eventually retires in a different type of way (Kasparov, Anand, Karpov, all did it a bit differently) and Carlsen's might be coming up soon.
- Maxatar 2y agoThis doesn't hold up to a cursory analysis of Carlsen's rating. You can see Carlsen's historical ELO score on FIDE's website and look at it year over year and the difference between Carlsen and the #2, #3, #4, etc... is pretty consistent and very impressive. Usually the difference between a player ranked N and a player ranked N + 1 is about 5-10 ELO points, but Carlsen's is consistently 30+ including at this moment. https://ratings.fide.com/top_lists.phtml https://ratings.fide.com/top_lists.phtml
- qq66 2y agoCarlsen is never again going to go 125 classical games without a defeat.
- cjbprime 2y agoEven Gukesh, crowned world champion recently, says Carlsen is the best player in the world.
- elif 2y agoWhile it's true that chess is a young man's game, Magnus has not lost his ability to flow absolute dookie positions into mate like no one else under any controls.
- epolanski 2y agoAnand is still active.
- oreilles 2y agoChesss960 doesn't have "slightly different rules" than chess, it's a variant where all the pieces are randomnly positioned at the start of each match... It's basically playing a completely different game, and one the FIDE has absolutely zero interest in. Freestyle and FIDE organization are not in competition.
- david-gpu 2y ago> Chesss960 doesn't have "slightly different rules" than chess, it's a variant where all the pieces are randomnly positioned at the start of each match For the 99% people who don't know what it is, I figured than "slightly different rules" was a reasonable summary. > Freestyle and FIDE organization are not in competition. You may want to ask yourself why FIDE is acting like they are indeed in competition. Perhaps they see something that you don't? Several top players getting behind Freestyle chess probably has something to do with it.
- Scarblac 2y agoFIDE has organized its own Chess 960 championships in the past, and organising championships is how FIDE makes money. It's direct competition. (Freestyle chess, Chess 960 and Fischer Random are names for the same game)
- clhodapp 2y agoGiven that the starting layout of the pieces and the movement rules of the pieces are the first things memorized by new chess players, that feels more than slightly different, even to this chess novice
- 8note 2y agoyou could compare it to say, Football, either football, and see that its almost the exact same game. is there a game thats closer to fisher random than chess? checkers? pokemon the card game? fisher random has the same pieces that move the same way, and at least half the pieces have same starting position as chess (the pawns) if you compare to say, duck chess, only the opening of fisher random is different, and i imagine sometimes its the same? in duck chess, the openings, midgames, endgames and tactics are all different, whereas in fisher random, the midgames, endgames, and tactics are the same as in chess. fisher random is a superset of chess, and not by much. engine chess is still considered chess, and similar to fisher random, the pieces and pawns start in different places than they do in chess
- 14 2y agoCouldn’t it also be worded - I.e this is less about “dress code enforcement “ and is more about FIDE fed up that Carlson is promoting alternative chess organizations - ?
- FredPret 2y agoI googled Chess960 and you just made my day. The one thing I never liked about chess was the opening memorization; what an elegant solution.
- 8note 2y agoits imperfect. people will still memorize the lot, and memorizing chess openings and tactical patterns will still apply frequently
- FredPret 2y agoI always play against my phone; I guess it now has the advantage of having yet another 959 sets of openings stored away that a casual player like me will never memorize. Still, it seems like a step in the right direction.