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What happened to the world's largest tube TV? [video]
- webwielder2 2y agoInteresting to see what people are passionate about.
- EA-3167 2y agoWithout a shred of judgement or sarcasm, yeah I agree, it's a big part of what I enjoy about scrolling through New here.
- echelon 2y agoIf you play retro video games from the NES / SNES / N64 / Gamecube era on original hardware, a CRT is the way to go. People that play competitive Smash Bros Melee will only play on CRTs.
- bumby 2y agoWhat's the rationale? Is there a performance benefit or nostalgia?
- rwmj 2y agoLow latency, and it looks like how the game designer intended it to look.
- nntwozz 2y agoIt looks much better on CRT. https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/wr31qd/my_crt_vs_my_lcd/ https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/wr31qd/my_crt_vs_my... "…scanlines were used to blend “pixels” together, plus “pixels” on a CRT tend to bleed color slightly and artists would also use that to their advantage."
- onlypassingthru 2y agoAside from the visuals (4:3 to 16:9, etc), converting the analog console signals into digital formats for your flatscreen creates lag, enough to often ruin the gameplay.
- AndrewDavis 2y agoEven though I have a CRT and NES, I bought one of the NES minis when they released. I played some Mario Bros 3 and... I kept dying. Jumping too late led to running into holes and enemies. It was so bizarre, I couldn't believe how bad I'd gotten. Tried the next day, same deal. Then I had a thought re delays. Pulled out my NES and hooked it up to the CRT and all that stopped There was sufficient delay in the NES mini and modern TV it made a huge difference. I'm sure I could retrain myself, but it was honestly stunned at how much of a difference it made
- exitb 2y agoIt’s difficult to overstate just how little lag there is in such setups. These systems had no frame buffer whatsoever - everything rendered on the fly. You could potentially affect a frame after it already started. That said, if you ever get an urge to play Mario on modern hardware, try run ahead emulation. It’s quite magical.
- vunderba 2y agoI've always found the litmus test of choice for measuring lag is NES Punch-out - your performance in that game is heavily dependent on lightning fast reaction time and any additional latency towards the later stages will 100% get you KO'd.
- sparky_z 2y agoFor competitions, the performance benefit is zero time lag between controller inputs and the screen output. Also, it's very very difficult to get the "look" right on an hdtv. The original graphics were intended to be displayed on a slightly "fuzzy" CRT, and if you care about the aesthetic, just transferring those same graphics to an hd-tv display often doesn't look right in a bunch of different ways. (Pixel aspect ratio, aliasing, frame blending effects, color bloom effects, interlacing artifacts, etc.) It's a very deep rabbit hole you can go down.
- qingcharles 2y agoI grabbed a 40" Sony to play lightgun games on. Sadly the 40" have a framebuffer and I didn't have a chance to find a way around it. The 43" in the post has a bypass.
- Klonoar 2y agoWe don’t only play on CRTs, we just still use them in tournament formats.
- karakot 2y agoprev discussion https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42489600 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42489600
- simonw 2y agoHere's the (fantastic) YouTube video that this is a recap of: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfZxOuc9Qwk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfZxOuc9Qwk
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- indigoabstract 2y agoThanks, really good story. It unfolds like an Indiana Jones movie for priceless antique CRTs.
- rwmj 2y agoA similar but not as large (merely 37") CRT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o7R8oJEZhY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o7R8oJEZhY
- tptacek 2y agoWas this done by the same person as made the video, or is it blogspam of it? (I'm asking because people are complaining about it elsewhere).
- Sniffnoy 2y agoI have no information that you don't, but it looks to be blogspam of it -- it always refers to Shank as a separate party, it doesn't claim to have had any involvement in what happened.
- dang 2y agoOK, we'll switch to the youtube link above. (Submitted URL was https://obsoletesony.substack.com/p/the-journey-to-save-the-last-known https://obsoletesony.substack.com/p/the-journey-to-save-the-....) Thanks all!
- hn92726819 2y agoHere's the real one: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JfZxOuc9Qwk https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JfZxOuc9Qwk
- cogman10 2y agoOh interesting. I'm like 90% sure my shop teacher had one of these! He had a giant ass CRT in his home (took up like half the living room in his tiny house). He got it from a facilities friend at a university that he was friendly with in like ~00s. They were getting rid of all these because flat-screens and projectors were much more in vogue at the time and these behemoths were simply dated. I wonder if he still has it.
- ajross 2y agoIt's a little sad to see CRTs withering into nothingness. The devices just don't last. The glass is obviously fragile. But even if you keep it padded and safe, the coils of the deflection yoke are thin magnet wire operated at high voltage, and after decades of thermal cycles and the resulting rubbing eventually the barrier between two drops enough and they short, catastrophically. And you can't really repair that in any feasible way. There are hundreds or thousands of windings, which have to duplicate exactly the configuration from the factory (and then probably be calibrated by processes that are lost to history). A dead CRT is just a useless hunk of glass, forever. They're all dying. And that's kind of sad.
- nucleardog 2y ago> The glass is obviously fragile. Ever broke one? Like 2/3 of the weight is that front glass. It's _thick_. When I was younger and dumber (well, at least younger) I tried breaking one. Took a running swing at the screen with a wrecking bar. It bounced off and all I got for my trouble was a sore shoulder.
- brendoelfrendo 2y agoIn the YouTube video they explain that CRTs have a layer of safety glass in front of the actual screen to protect viewers in the event that the screen implodes. You were actually trying to break through multiple pieces of glass! I've taken a crowbar to a broken CRT before for fun and can confirm that it takes a lot more effort than one might think.
- mrob 2y agoIt depends on the CRT. Some use steel bands wrapped around the edge of the faceplate and tightened to keep the glass in compression where it's strongest.
- londons_explore 2y agoI believe the thick front (leaded) glass is to try to block the produced x-rays. People were starting to get scared of the cancer those xrays might produce, and I suspect CRT manufacturers predicted a huge court settlement for cancers caused by TV's with insufficient shielding. So far, it seems that hasn't materialized - not, I suspect because those xrays didn't cause cancer, but because it is simply impossible to produce any kind of evidence of cause/effect.
- jsjohnst 2y agoI had one of the 36” Sony Wega Trinitron CRTs for years. Weighed well over 200lbs, which combined with the shape, made it a really “fun” thing to move.
- throwmeaway2024 2y ago[dead]
- bumby 2y agoThe geometry was a killer when trying to move it because you couldn't wrap your arms around the thing. When faced with moving one by myself down the stairs to my apartment, I was forced to (carefully) roll it downhill.
- doubled112 2y agoRelatable! When I was about 14, my mom got a new TV and I got the 27” Trinitron. I was simultaneously excited and terrified. I would have to move it. My arms were too short to get around it. Somehow we made it down the basement stairs without help. By “we” I mean the TV and I. I got it across the room and onto the TV stand. 33 year old me would definitely need an Advil after.
- bluedino 2y agoI found a 32" on the curb, heaved it into the back of my truck, and got it home. It worked great, I thought about how much of a pain it would be to drag into the house and up the stairs to the gaming room, and decided I'd just find a 19-27" to use for old consoles. Ended up selling it on Craigslist for $250.
- johngossman 2y agoI'll add my voice. I bought one from a friend for $36 (a dollar an inch) while waiting for flatscreens to come down in price. It bent my TV stand and I ended up keeping it a couple extra years because I didn't want to move it out of the house. Eventually we put it on Craigslist for free (with a warning about the weight) and two very large men showed up and carried it away.
- Tiberium 2y agoAm I overthinking it or is this blog post heavily AI-edited? The way the text is very similar to what modern GPT models would give you. This paragraph was the last straw that made me think so: >This story isn’t just about a TV; it’s about preserving history and celebrating the people who make it possible. Shank’s journey serves as a reminder of the lengths we’ll go to honor the past and connect through shared enthusiasm. Also >Shank Mods’ video is not just a celebration of retro tech but a love letter to the communities that keep these technologies alive. From the daring extraction to the meticulous restoration, every moment of this story is a testament to what can be achieved with determination and collaboration.
- xvector 2y agoit reads fine to me
- infotainment 2y agoI really enjoy reading this blog in general, but I do agree with you that it absolutely has that AI-assisted-writing style. Looking at this and other posts, they often feel like if one prompted ChatGPT with something like "please write a timeline of the Walkman". I think they may want to dial it back for a more natural feeling.
- Animats 2y agoIt has that "stretched to maximize Youtube engagement revenue" feel. There is apparently an SEO advantage to "long form" Youtube videos. You also have to hit 4,000 viewing hours per year before Google pays out.[1] So there's an incentive to bloat videos with background material. That's why so many Youtube videos have a collection of stock photos and clips at the beginning giving a history of something, before they get to the new thing. Now we need local crap blockers which will delete that crap. Good AI problem. [1] https://www.72works.com/marketing/how-long-should-a-youtube-video-be/ https://www.72works.com/marketing/how-long-should-a-youtube-...
- Eisenstein 2y ago
- dzuc 2y agoIs there really no market for a modern CRT tailor-made for retro gaming? Or is it just not feasible?
- rwmj 2y agoYou should probably watch one of the old films about how CRTs were made. It's not a simple process and basically would require setting up a whole factory to mass produce them.
- Animats 2y agoHobbyist-level production of monochrome TV tubes is possible, but a big effort. Some of the early television restorers have tried.[1] Color, though, is far more complicated. A monochrome CRT just has a phosphor coating inside the glass. A color tube has photo-etched patterns of dots aligned with a metal shadow mask. CRT rebuilding, where the neck is cut off, a new electron gun installed, and the tube re-sealed and evacuated, used to be part of the TV repair industry. That can be done in a small-scale workshop. There's a commercial business which still restores CRTs.[2] Most of their work is restoring CRTs for old military avionics systems. But there are a few Sony and Panasonic models for which they have parts and can do restoration. [1] http://earlytelevision.org/crt_project.html http://earlytelevision.org/crt_project.html [2] https://www.thomaselectronics.com https://www.thomaselectronics.com
- kcb 2y agoThe whole supply chain is dead. No way the demand is great enough to justify rebooting it.
- ggreer 2y agoCRTs used to be cheap because they were made in high volumes and had a large ecosystem of parts suppliers. If you were to make a CRT today, you'd need to fabricate a lot more parts yourself, and the low volume production would require charging very high prices. You'd also have to deal with more stringent environmental laws, as CRTs contain many toxins, including large amounts of lead. It's much cheaper to emulate CRT effects so that they work with any display technology. Modern LCDs and OLEDs have fast enough response times that you can get most CRT effects (and omit the ones you dislike, such as refresh flicker). And you don't have to deal with a heavy, bulky display that can implode and send leaded glass everywhere.
- a12k 2y agoAs a child in the early 90s (maybe 1993), I nearly got crushed under one of these trying to connect my Nintendo to the AV cables on the back. It was against the wall in an alcove and the only way to access was to rotate it slightly and lean it forward to reach the connections on the back (which I couldn’t see, only feel). It tipped off the shelf and onto me, partially supported by the shelf and partially by me. I didn’t want to get in trouble because it was so nice, so I just kind of squatted there pinned under it trying to lever it back. Thankfully my dad walked by, noticed, and kept into action. And here I still am today.
- unsnap_biceps 2y agoAre you saying as a child you were able to move and hold up a 400 lbs tv or are you talking about a smaller tv?
- Avamander 2y agoTilting or rotating a TV is different from lifting it (especially if there isn't much friction by design?) and might require much less force.
- a12k 2y agoYes. This was more like continuously jerking my weight backwards with all my might while holding a front corner to maneuver the TV inch by inch into a diagonal orientation, until on the last jerk it went an inch too far.
- a1o 2y ago400 lbs -> 181 kg
- rob74 2y agoCrushing was probably not the only danger you were in there - even if the thing would have just fallen and imploded next to you, that could have been pretty dangerous as well...
- Koshkin 2y agoAt least these are not banned, as the ICEs no doubt will be in 11 years...
- tehjoker 2y agoThe problem with ICE isn't being able to buy them, it's buying them in huge quantities. You'll probably be able to buy them for sports cars or some other low volume commodity.
- ggreer 2y agoOf the existing plans to ban the purchase of gas vehicles in the future, do any have exemptions for low volume production of enthusiast vehicles? California's plan (which 17 other states follow) seems to only have exemptions for heavy duty vehicles.[1] My guess is that enthusiasts will get around these laws by modifying old vehicle frames. New emissions and safety standards tend to grandfather old vehicles in, so as long as the VIN says it was made before a certain date, you can avoid having curtain airbags, backup cameras, tire pressure monitoring systems, electronic stability control, etc. (There requirements are why new cars have so many computers in them.) 1. https://www.gov.ca.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/9.23.20-EO-N-79-20-Climate.pdf https://www.gov.ca.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/9.23.20-EO...
- jjulius 2y agoOP implied buying engines as single units, an item unto itself - "you'll probably be able to buy them for sports cars". The California executive action is explicitly for the sale of new vehicles.
- kalleboo 2y agoThe problem will also be getting gasoline, if just 90% of the cars on the road are electric, a lot of the gasoline infrastructure will go away.
- jjulius 2y agoApples, meet oranges. Or sand. Yeah, apples and sand.
- dylan604 2y agoThe glass optics on these and other large screen CRTs is something that always impress[es|ed] me. From the older screens that had more of a circular image all the way to these "flat" CRTs, there were lots of improvements in everything except weight. It took a lot of glass to get the flat front, but was far from flat on the inside.
- dotancohen 2y ago...something that continues to impress me.
- dylan604 2y agoThat's not a very l33t way of writing it though
- dateSISC 2y agoyeah absolutely epic, watched it yday
- neilv 2y agoIt's a well done storytelling, but two odd thoughts/questions about it... As I was watching it, there was the drama of whether it would be saved from imminent destruction, and it actually seemed unlikely that they could, but their approach was to be... secretive about it. It turned out that they wanted it for themselves, and didn't that create a conflict of interest? By keeping it quiet, they increased the chance that they would obtain it themselves (and the YouTube story to tell about it), but increased the likelihood that the TV would be lost entirely (because other efforts wouldn't be brought)? Fortunately the gamble worked out, and the TV wasn't destroyed. There's also a possibly related matter, in how Sony stopped talking with them. Is it possible that Sony and/or Japanese government aren't very happy to learn that a possibly unique museum piece, of one of the heights of Sony achievement, was quietly removed from the country, to the US, by a YouTube influencer? I applaud preserving this rare artifact, and compliment the storytelling, but did have these couple odd thoughts.
- II2II 2y agoWith respect to keeping quiet about it: it may not have been selfless, but it may also have drawn so much attention to it that the owner of the set wouldn't have wanted to deal with it. After all, he had already dealt with one person who didn't follow through. As for the Sony not talking bit, it can probably be chalked up to corporate policy. Large organizations rarely let staff speak on matters when it may be construed as being speaking for the corporation.
- neilv 2y agoTrue. Although, would a call to a museum of Japanese technology/industry, or to Sony HQ, have had a better chance to preserve it? (More likely to save it, less likely for it to be destroyed in handling and shipping.) As well as keep it in country? Perhaps the current owners will be reached by a museum, and decide to repatriate it. I imagine that the right museum home could be a win for everyone.
- Laforet 2y agoThe other parties you mentioned would probably have less motivation to preserve it, let alone restore it to a fully functional state. I find it rather bizarre that many posters here seem to think that it’s morally preferable for the TV set to rot in Japan rather than getting the proper care in the hands of an American collector, all because of some imaginary cultural baggage.
- nothacking_ 2y agoAnother day, another LLM generated blog post on the front page. I'm not opposed to AI tools on principle, but why does this article exist? It's not because the author had anything interesting to say. It's not because the AI had anything interesting to say. It's a summary of a Youtube video because... clicks or something.
- noprocrasted 2y agoCounterpoint (as someone who watched the 30 mins video originally): some people may not have time to watch said video and can read the AI-generated summary quicker and then decide if the video is worth watching.
- romanhn 2y agoAmazing story, got sucked into watching the whole video despite not knowing much about the hobby. A random little bit stood out to me, when the president of Sony made a personal promise to fix the TV after it stopped working (a while back). Now that's dedication to quality and customer satisfaction.
- consumer451 2y agoI used to live in Key West. A lot of amazing things were put out on the curb there. The best that we found was a Sony 34XBR910 HD widescreen CRT! I had no idea that a widescreen HD CRT existed until my friend brought one home. As far as I know, this was the pinnacle of CRT displays. Here is a video about that same model: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ccUF1eeIz4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ccUF1eeIz4
- sapphire42 2y agoThis is a great story, but why does content that is clearly LLM-generated continually make it to the HN front page?
- adr1an 2y agoSir this is a subReddit
- heyjamesknight 2y agoMy first college roommate brought the largest CRT I've ever seen. It looks a LOT like this one. He passed away this last year, otherwise I'd ask him how large it was. It took FIVE adults to carry up the two stories to our apartment! But man, that thing was awesome back in 2007.
- bane 2y agoIn 2006 or so I bought a house at the top of the real estate market (whereupon it quickly crashed and we enjoyed the wild ride of refinancing and property value swings until we finally unloaded the place at cost - at least it was a really nice neighborhood). The real estate agents, as a token of their thanks for allowing them to claw back 6% of an outrageously priced house, gave us back some of the money in the form of a $2500 gift card to BestBuy. Of course, I immediately used it to buy a state of the art Samsung DLP rear projection TV with more inputs than you could shake a stick at including then new HDMI and VGA. I still have that TV, it looks pretty good for 720p and 46" or so, and has a chromecast dongle permanently stuck in its HDMI port to make it useable. It works amazing as an impromptu VGA monitor, and old games console system as well. The cost, with stand, was something like $2400 plus some change and I was left with a few dollars at the end. I wanted to finish off the gift card so I looked around the store. There, off in the corner was an absolutely massive Sony CRT tv with a yellow sticker on the side. "$1.72". I gasped. "Is that TV really $1.72?" "Yup, the future is these DLP or these Plasma TVs, we're getting rid of our CRTs" Instant purchase, closed out the card, set the delivery dates for both and waited. A week later two guys showed up "we got two TVs, one of them if fcking heavy, where do we put 'em?" The DLP went of course into the living room without any fuss, but the Sony...well that was the heavy one. It took two guys, working hard, to move all 39" of it up a flight of stairs into an upper bedroom. It sat in its place until we sold the house and decided to move. That's when I learned what a monster it was. For absolutely foolhardy reasons, I decided to junk it, so I had to take it to the curb. I tried to lift it. No go. I was like trying to lift Mjolnir or free Excalibur. I had a friend come over. It took us about an hour to move it down that flight of stairs and drag* it on piece of plastic to the curb. The trash people, even prepped for an unusually heavy pickup, had to make three attempts at it before they could get it. During that time it was at the curb, two cars stopped and tried to pick it up before giving up. Looking up the specs now, it looks like it was probably somewhere north of 300 lbs (136 kg). I see on Ebay that today it's probably worth around $600-$1000. But damn, if it wouldn't cost that much to move it within the same county. I still have a 24" I'll keep until I'll die for old gaming reasons, but man, that other monster was too big. A guy at work the other day moved a 72" TV by himself, like it was nothing. There's a reason some tech falls away.
- rconti 2y ago
- reason-mr 2y agoOMG. I have one of the original SGI 24” 1080p flat screen CRTs (went with the onyx2) in storage. One wonders what that’s worth :) fundamentally a better tube ..
- 1970-01-01 2y agoIt seems this TV is more rare than special. Sony was again making up to 42" models in the 2000s. Not quite at 43" however those were 1080i, 16:9 flat screen CRTs with a plethora of analog and digital ports in the rear.
- pansa2 2y agoThey never quite made another model this big, though. The 2000s sets are 42” tube (40” visible) whereas this one is 45” tube (43” visible).
- hmcdona1 2y agoThe later CRT models you are describing here are not coveted by retro gaming enthusiasts (which the people involved here clearly are) since the digital nature of them meant they introduced a ton of processing that negates the near zero input lag all earlier analog CRTs benefit from. Many of the later digital models can actually be had for much cheaper these days than the full analog ones despite looking more powerful on spec sheets.
- binary132 2y agoThe whole time I was reading this article, I just wanted to know the history of the soba restaurant that was being demolished. I bet there’s an interesting story there too.
- ascorbic 2y agotbh probably not. There are a lot of soba restaurants, and a lot of demolitions. Buildings are typically demolished after 20-30 years to make way for new ones.
- suzzer99 2y agoI worked for a stereo store in San Francisco in the late-90s. We didn't have to deliver these, but we did have to deliver the 36" Sony XBRs, which weighed over 200 lbs and were just a delight to drag up 4 flights of stairs with two people.
- ChrisMarshallNY 2y agoI used to have a Samsung 27” HDTV CRT. I think I brought it, in the late ‘90s. Back then, LCD/plasma monitors of similar size, cost thousands (my, how times have changed). Big, heavy honker, and suffered from chronic fringing, around the edges. I gave it away, in the mid-oughts, which required a pickup truck, and two strong men. I don’t miss it, at all. My job was for an imaging company, and we had a massive HDTV CRT in our showroom. I think it was around 32”. It was a Sony. That was in the early ‘90s.
- thomasfl 2y agoBuy CRT displays now! In a few year they will be sought after collector items.
- donatj 2y agoWe're well into that territory already. Go on Marketplace and try to find a decent Trinitron for less than $200
- metadat 2y agoWhy must the vacuum be made out of lead rather than e.g. steel?
- Edman274 2y agoWhen vacuum tubes have high voltages applied to them, they generate x rays. The glass envelope is impregnated with lead so as to reduce the amount of x ray radiation that is emitted. The primary source of x ray radiation from TVs had been from their other components other than the tube itself but the tube was still a source of ionizing radiation.
- metadat 2y agoGot it, thanks!
- natepeters 2y agoLove seeing old CRTs like this preserved. I am not a CRT collector, but as a NES dev I keep a small 13" around and use it reqularly for dev purposes and for showing off my games at conventions. 13" is the perfect size in my opinion. Does not take up too much space and is easy to lug around to shows. I fear the day that mine dies because small 13" models in good condition are getting harder to find for a decent price. Seems like some people caught on and are selling them on FB Marketplace for high prices and advertising them as "Retro Gaming TVs".
- agiacalone 2y agoFrank had a 2000" TV. You could watch The Simpsons from 30 blocks away! (This is a Weird Al reference)
- mzmzmzm 2y agoThis video is delightful! I wish Sony were just a fraction as innovative and engineering-driven as they used to be.
- nedt 2y agoThere is mostly one thing I still remember about tube TV and one reason why I', so happy they are gone. It's the high pitch noise they make. Even now over 40 I'm still able to hear it. Can't imagine how it must be if everything is bigger.