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One way to fight loneliness: Germans call it a Stammtisch

• ElectRabbit 2y ago
  As a German: the answer is IMHO in the pub culture you can find in UK and Ireland. A socially accepted central meeting place where people can go and talk to each other. Of course also to eat and drink. It's the social glue there and has a very very old history there.
  • PartiallyTyped 2y ago
    I don't think Ireland has the pub culture you have in mind. Honestly not much to do besides pubs here, and unless you have an established friend group, good luck making one. Locals are in their own bubbles. Irish people are quite famous for how not lonely they are, so much so that the tiny island only has 2 or 3 subreddits dedicated to making friends and meeting people.
    • gerdesj 2y ago
      I don't think that is really fair and not restricted to Ireland either. I have visited the Emerald Isle a couple of times, North and South, from the UK. I found a culture that is definitely different in some ways but just as familiar in most ways. Just as I do in Wales and Scotland. For example we all share a strange obsession with the weather. Obviously we don't really but the standard rules of chatting about the weather enables an easy start and disengagement from a social encounter. We also suffer from an inability to stop saying goodbye ... Pub culture as a whole is changing massively. I remember when Ireland banned fags in pubs (a fag is a cigarette). I used to smoke and found it a bit odd having to go outside. Then the UK followed suit. With hindsight, I don't miss quite a lot of the "good old days" of smoke filled rooms that even a tabber's eyes would nearly be bleeding. Brown stained wooden chairs with plum or mustard upholstery and worryingly sticky floors and tables. I remember chatting to a landlord of my local at the time around 1998. The boozer was called the Globe Trotters (Yeovil, Somerset, UK). It was formerly a cider house called the Globe and now its a modern effort called ... the Globe and Crown. The landlord described how he had to get rid of the "old boys" who would sit in the corner and quietly piss themselves whilst talking bollocks. Anyway, I'm not sure what pub culture is these days. It probably died of COPD a few years ago. Despite all that, I do think that the Stammtisch ideal is alive and well in our very odd corner of Western Europe. We just don't give it a name. Perhaps we should. The nearest thing I can think of is pub sports - darts, pool, snooker etc. I've been playing pool badly for a team for a good 25 years now.
    • ElectRabbit 2y ago
      > I don't think Ireland has the pub culture you have in mind. Honestly not much to do besides pubs here, and unless you have an established friend group, good luck making one. Locals are in their own bubbles. I've been to Ireland many times. So cannot really confirm this. After a night in a pub I know everyone in the town. Or almost.
      • PartiallyTyped 2y ago
        Knowing is different to having a close relationship or a friendship. Irish people are well known for that.
  • vr46 2y ago
    I miss the pubs in the UK, but they’re nothing without your mates. In Germany, I have no way of making friends or meeting people, it’s a real struggle. Too broke to go out to Meetups, and at my age it’s hard anyway.
    • nilslindemann 2y ago
      Search for "sozial treff <your city>". Call there and talk to someone. The churches are also good places to ask. German churches organize a lot of social events. If I interpret "at my age" correctly you mean that you are too old. Let me tell you, especially for older people there exists tons of stuff in your city.
      • vr46 2y ago
        Thanks for the tipp - I’ve been trying to volunteer at the refugee centre ON MY ROAD for months but my application is going nowhere. I’m not super old, just entered my sixth decade, but bogged down in parenting instead of socializing. EDIT: Super Tipp, danke. Habe gleich zwei Treffpunkte in der Nähe gefunden und werde diese im neuen Jahr besuchen.
    • beAbU 2y ago
      Join a church, and if thats not your jam, join a choir. Its making friends on easy mode.
    • Barrin92 2y ago
      >In Germany, I have no way of making friends or meeting people, it’s a real struggle I used to hear this quite a bit from people who work here, as the article hints at we're a country of clubs and associations, most of them free. Be it chess, football, poetry slams, the church choir, the local CCC given that you're on HN, etc. Most unis will let you sit in for free as well. I also wouldn't worry about age. We're not really that age conscious, very few people I know care if they're around people twice their age. People tend to bash their head in trying to make friends at work but it's probably the worst country to do this, we just work 9 to 5 and go home.
  • marcus_holmes 2y ago
    I was explaining this to younger friends over the weekend - before everyone had phones in their pockets, we would head to the pub. Every Friday and Saturday evening, same pub, same time. A bunch of us would be there, and the night would progress from there. If you couldn't make it, you didn't turn up, simple as. If we were feeling sociable on a weeknight, we headed to the same pub. There'd usually be one or two others that felt the same, and they'd introduce us to others, and the circle spread. Go to the pub more than 3 times over a couple of weeks and you'd start to be known as a regular, and introduced to the other regulars. Over time, those random introductions became the core of your social life. Now, of course, we don't need to do this because we can tell the group chat which bar we're meeting at. I'm not sure it's an improvement.
    • Aeolun 2y ago
      There’s something to needing to actively sustain it I think.
      • marcus_holmes 2y ago
        agreed, but it became self-sustaining because we didn't have the option to do otherwise; getting hold of everyone to change the venue for next Friday was really painful, so we just stuck to going to the same place each week.
  • ohlookcake 2y ago
    As a UK resident who's recently given up alcohol, the pub culture part is the thing I miss the most. The quick pseudo-answer is non-alcoholic drinks, but it creates a weird dynamic when most of the group gets slowly inebriated over the evening, and you sip lemonade
    • Ntrails 2y ago
      I've never drunk and find pubs awkward and generally un-fun. Some of that is I maybe want one small soft drink a day at most anyway, and I'm quickly just standing/sitting without a drink, worrying I've got nothing to say, and seeing no good reason to be there. 100% on me, and I only mention it as context to the below: I've seen a lot of people drinking the modern zero/low alcohol beers (lucky saint maybe?) and it largely just works. They're happy, and get to engage feeling pretty much like normal. Obviously if the goal is to get drunk quickly then it sucks, but observationally you've got a fair few rounds before it appears to be a barrier.
• deleted 2y ago
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• Rendello 2y ago
  A type of third place: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_place https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_place
  • hiddencost 2y ago
    And wouldn't it be nice if there were more third places that weren't centered around alcohol consumption.
    • Rendello 2y ago
      It certainly depends on location.
• bvanderveen 2y ago
  [flagged]
• djaouen 2y ago
  [flagged]
  • 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 2y ago
    Say more?
    • djaouen 2y ago
      I will leave the explanation to Jon Lojoie and his smash hit, Everyday Normal Guy 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmG4X9PGOXs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmG4X9PGOXs
• ratmeadow 2y ago
  Cool idea. Wonder how it could be adapted to include those who don't drink (already too many social events revolving around drinking IMO).
  • gazook89 2y ago
    I agree. Bars around me also play loud music and/or have sports on TVs all the time, and quickly get too loud to have a coherent and comfortable conversation. Places quiet enough are not set up to have tables pushed together and a longer dwell time as people come in and out. As a kid I joined my dad at a regular stammtisch that met at a Starbucks in the evening. That worked well, but I do think it would have benefited not just by having typical Starbucks drinks but also a few beers (giving the choice to the patrons). As noted in the article, a coffee shop works well. But it can be tough to find a place where again it’s possible to pull a big table together. So many cafes now cater to laptop users plugging in for hours, but not necessarily for getting groups together who want to talk.
  • TacticalCoder 2y ago
    I'm part of a group that regularly meets at a pub and some only drink water. There's zero issue with that. The goal is not to get drunk: it's to have fun and discuss all together while enjoying two or three beer for those who like beer.
    • em-bee 2y ago
      also my experience, when meeting with friends on austria i was often the only one who didn't drink alcohol. i can't remember a single time that anyone would notice or say anything about it.
  • bell-cot 2y ago
    Even in a small-ish city, the meanings of "drinks" and "drinking" can vary enormously, depending on the group of people. I had a "burgers and beers" meal at a pub with some friends on Saturday. Our maximum alcohol consumption was 1 beer; minimum was 0. Several decades ago, I might have had a second beer. Maybe a dessert, too.
• larkost 2y ago
  In the U.S. the name Stammtisch has often been co-opted by German-speaking clubs. I myself helped usher the Philadelphia one through a low point 20 years ago. They are much bigger now, with at least 4 weekly meeting around the Philly area (I have since moved out of the area): https://www.meetup.com/netzwerkphiladelphia/ https://www.meetup.com/netzwerkphiladelphia/
  • larkost 2y ago
    I forgot to mention the Madison one that I was in before then: https://www.facebook.com/groups/252293088142844/ https://www.facebook.com/groups/252293088142844/
• markus_zhang 2y ago
  That's a nice thing to have. Although since marriage and especially child birth I usually need to fight for loneliness instead. Maybe I'll do it when I'm old, you know, alone.
  • em-bee 2y ago
    you want alone time but also time away from family, which can be filled by meeting others. i know it's not easy, but i would try at least once a month. also arrange the same for your partner. you want friends that allow you to share and open up on problems that you face. as soon as you have your first fight you'll want some else to talk to. a psychologist also told me that putting all your companionship needs on your partner can be burdensome. for example if i like to play board games and my wife doesn't then i better keep meeting others to play instead of giving up playing
  • endoblast 2y ago
    I think you've hit on the solution for most people going forward: prioritise getting married and starting a family while you're young. Don't leave it to chance or assume it's impossible. It's not the burden that our culture is making it out to be whereas loneliness is a large and growing problem.
• incanus77 2y ago
  There's a fun German pub here in Portland, OR called Stammtisch.
  • reinheitsgebot 2y ago
    And their Münchner beer list on tap is unmatched anywhere in the city. Even Proust or Otto and Anita’s. Love that place.
    • woodson 2y ago
      Sounds great! Are you (or anyone reading this) interested in doing a Stammtisch at Stammtisch?
      • incanus77 2y ago
        I would be... once the New Year dies down. My email is my two initials @ the domain in my profile.
• BoingBoomTschak 2y ago
  People with friends, wives and children having to "fight loneliness". lol
  • smallnix 2y ago
    Loneliness is longing for connection to other people. Loneliness does not need to relate to the number of people you talk to or that you know.
    • Dalewyn 2y ago
      In an era when humanity is more connected than ever in history, loneliness is decidedly a "you" problem unless you have some sort of medical condition that inhibits socializing.
      • Exoristos 2y ago
        Americans are more socially disconnected than ever in my lifetime, and I'm pretty old and have lived all over. There's a well-studied epidemic of loneliness and confusion. So perhaps you could refine your terms.
      • Loughla 2y ago
        There is a difference between online interactions and in person interactions. There just is. I cannot be convinced otherwise.
        • Kiro 2y ago
          I think it's the same and I cannot be convinced otherwise.
      • imiric 2y ago
        In what world are you living in where humanity is connected? If anything, technology has only driven us further apart. Those mission statements from social media companies are nothing but empty platitudes.
  • 2y ago
• rramadass 2y ago
  Many cultures have similar socially sanctioned practices; Adda: The secret to Bengali conviviality - https://www.bbc.com/travel/article/20210812-adda-the-secret-to-bengali-conviviality https://www.bbc.com/travel/article/20210812-adda-the-secret-...
  • awad 2y ago
    Did not expect to see this here, but spot on.
    • rramadass 2y ago
      Apparently, there are even scholarly studies on this ! Friendship and Fraternity: The Cultural Nostalgia of Adda in Modern Bengal by Nabamita Das - https://internationalconference.net/program/detail/215 https://internationalconference.net/program/detail/215
• gwervc 2y ago
  This was also a thing in Alsace (France), under the same name. However I only ever heard of it from my mother, as it is was a thing people did when she was young, but isn't a thing anymore since decades. Maybe in a few villages?
  • thiago_fm 2y ago
    Given that control over Alsace was shared between Germany and France many times in history, it makes sense. I believe it's still done, but it's mostly too old people. In big cities in Germany you will often seen youth that no longer do it.
• analog31 2y ago
  Dumb American moment: I once visited Germany for a conference in Munich. My hotel was out in a rural town on the train line. One night my colleagues and I walked out the door for an adventure and into the first restaurant we found, a tiny little place. We sat down at the Stammtisch. The waitress kindly told us that we should move. Then everybody in the place was kind of cold to us, until someone picked up from our conversation that we were from the US. The waitress tentatively asked: "Are you Americans?" Yes. "Oh, we thought you were English." All of the sudden the whole place warmed up to us, and they even brought us complimentary glasses of the house liqueur, which I can tell you was quite potent. I don't know why they liked Americans better than English, and we didn't press the matter.
  • quambene 2y ago
    maybe because of brexit. wouldn't justify it. just a wild guess
    • FrankoDelMar 2y ago
      Not from Europe, but it reminds me of how Amsterdam has been actively discouraging young men from the UK from visiting because they have a reputation for being rowdy and getting in trouble. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65107405 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65107405
      • 2ICofafireteam 2y ago
        I haven't been there in 20 years but I'm not surprised. Back then there was a tidal wave of drunk, loud men from the UK whenever they had a bank holiday. My unsolicited advice to people wanting to visit the city has always been to not go during UK long weekends and if they're only looking for drugs and sex, that both can be sourced closer to home.
    • okr 2y ago
      Huh? Why Brexit? Why would someone be upset with the British when they left the EU? Maybe one asks why, but angry or resentful? :))
• ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago
  Every Friday night, a bunch of us friends (usually men) get together, and have dinner at some local joint. We actually interact with each other at other times, during the week, but the Friday dinner is kind of special. I'm fortunate to be involved in an organization that includes a great deal of interaction with others, but I know that the norm for men my age, is sitting on the recliner, remote in hand.
  • altbdoor 2y ago
    Had a small circle that did the same every Friday evening. But as time passes, members have gotten more commitments, and the whole thing got dispersed. I'd like to believe that I was one of the more avid members, but waiting alone for up to hours for the next guy to pop up, made me quit too. Last I heard, only two to three members are left, and its a somewhat odd lunch held around 3-4pm.
    • ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago
      We’ve been doing this for over 20 years. But the “glue” that keeps us together, is the organization we’re all members of.
      • theonething 2y ago
        Church? I’m a Christian and have always been so thankful for the rich community and sense of shared values and mission I experience with my church.
        • ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago
          No, Recovery fellowship. Similar. Churches provide many of the same benefits. For most of my friends that attend churches, the congregation is more important to them, than the pastor.
    • jprete 2y ago
      I think successful groups almost always have a core of devoted people who will show up on time, rain or shine, enough for the event to succeed. If you were alone for hours waiting for other people, that was a really bad sign IMO.
• mattgreenrocks 2y ago
  I meet with a few men every 6 or 7 weeks in a similar fashion to a Stammtisch. We talk about nothing and everything. It’s more about creating the space for things to come out than any individual meeting. I’m gradually finding that my mission in life may be to fight the widespread atomization we all feel by any means necessary.
  • moralestapia 2y ago
    >my mission in life may be to Hey! I'm in the same boat, shoot me an email!
  • keybored 2y ago
    I don’t know if you can say that you are fighting a societal malaise by meeting with the same men every so often.
    • mattgreenrocks 2y ago
      Have to crawl before you can walk.
• tejohnso 2y ago
  > It seemed like a typical bar hang — until one of the guys planted a little flag on the table: an insignia for their group. That seemed a bit odd: Why do these pals have a flag? Turns out, this was no random meetup for a pint. It was a Stammtisch. "It was a Stammtisch" doesn't explain why there was a flag placed on the table other than that maybe it's common for a flag to be part of this kind of gathering group. But still....why? There are plenty of groups that meet regularly. It's unusual to plant a flag like that. Book clubs, bridge game meetups, regular pints with a friend group (that isn't a Stammtisch), Sunday brunch group, etc. None of these kinds of groups plant flags.
  • jprete 2y ago
    Book clubs and other discussion-focused groups that are open to new attendees often put up a "flag" so the new people can find the group in a public place. It's just not a literal flag, but some other kind of sign. If the group's activity is easily visible and distinct from what everyone else is doing, it's not necessary.
  • The_Colonel 2y ago
    > There are plenty of groups that meet regularly. Stammtisch can be used like that, but it can also mean the physical table ("Tisch" means table) where a specific group meets. Meaning, in some pubs, a table marked as such is effectively reserved only for this specific group of regulars. I think this is getting rarer, but I still see it from time to time.
  • RamblingCTO 2y ago
    But it does. It's simply German culture. I left another comment about the community and identity part that comes into this on another comment.
  • em-bee 2y ago
    our linux user group puts up a penguin. since the meeting is always in the same pub, the penguin is left there on a shelf when not in use
• ruskzane 2y ago
  This article really hits home. I've experienced the same struggle with loneliness in a new city. The idea of a structured social gathering, like a Stammtisch, makes a lot of sense. Maybe I should find a local group or even start one myself.
• OldGuyInTheClub 2y ago
  I heard about these decades ago when studying German in college. Always wondered how the bar/pub deals with these. Is there one stammtisch per establishment? Otherwise it seems like a place could be full of groups not "turning over tables" in the metaphorical sense.
• pj_mukh 2y ago
  In Kolkata where I was born but didn't grow up, this is called "Adda" culture[1] at coffee houses. I guess in Germany they would call this Kaffeekränzchen. Super interesting how this pops up organically in most urban settings. Would love to join a new movement around this in my town. [1]: https://www.telegraphindia.com/my-kolkata/places/from-college-square-and-coffee-house-to-nandan-dakshinapan-and-park-street-kolkatas-favourite-adda-spots-through-generations-keeping-alive-adda-culture/cid/2039923 https://www.telegraphindia.com/my-kolkata/places/from-colleg...
• tokioyoyo 2y ago
  I live in PNW right now, and man, oh man, I dearly miss even a watered down version of a "3rd place bar culture" of the east coast. Would be so awesome to have a designated place to just have a drink and chat with your neighbours. There are bunch of coffee shops, but most people are free in the evening. And getting just a tiny bit loose and shooting the shit is definitely more of a bar thing. I know financially it would never make sense, but having a local pub with extremely cheap membership ($5/month) with discounts to the neighbourhood residents (maybe based on postal code on your ID?) would do wonders to me. Use that tiny bit of cash to host small events, advertise it as the meeting place for anyone who wants to come, be a bit strict against unruly people who makes others uncomfortable... I can only dream!
  • ipaddr 2y ago
    It sounds like something simple enough for you to setup. You have the passion direct it locally and see what grows.
    • tokioyoyo 2y ago
      Problem is the funding. I can't really afford to risk at the bare minimum of $300K and try to grow it from there myself. Maybe one day, or if I find someone who shares the passion. If only there could be some weird AI angle to throw in to get some funding, am I right?!
      • lotsofpulp 2y ago
        The second you start serving alcohol, you start being liable for things people do after they leave your establishment. Or even in your establishment. Your personal assets are at stake, and at that point, it doesn’t make sense to run something as a charity.
        • tokioyoyo 2y ago
          Yeah, I wouldn’t even enjoy running it as a charity, as that would be an enormous sacrifice. I wonder if someone did a cost analysis of Costco-style membership analysis for a bar. I personally know people who avoid specific bars because specific patrons have been jerks, and they’re making others uncomfortable. Some sort of simple membership could keep them out.
• croes 2y ago
  Don’t you already need to know the people before you are part of the Stammtisch? That means you already aren’t lonely you just have a common spot in a pub with your friends - HIMYM vibes incoming.
  • tanvach 2y ago
    I’m getting from the article that you can get invited to these as well as keeping existing friendship going.
  • ofrzeta 2y ago
    > Don’t you already need to know the people before you are part of the Stammtisch? You do. And the classical eponymous Stammtisch isn't really inviting to newcomers. I've spent time in German Wirtshäuser (but maybe it's more extreme in Bavaria) sitting at a table next to the Stammtisch alone but they would never invite you to their table. It's just not how it works, at least in Bavaria. Usually the Stammtisch is an extremely tightly-knit group of locals that frown upon everything new. Somehow over many years you might earn your right to an invitation. Also if you go to a Wirtshaus it is easy to spot the Stammtisch (the actual table - it always has a bell) and even if it is empty you may not just sit there without permission just like in some kind of religious ritual. Of course everyone is free to use the term to their liking and you call a regular meeting in different locations a "Stammtisch" but that is not how it is traditionally.
  • zelphirkalt 2y ago
    Alone != lonely.
• grumblepeet 2y ago
  I worked in Nuremberg for a while and was kindly invited along to the English Stammtisch which at the time was in different bars on a few nights throughout the month. Lots of English people but also lots of German folk who wanted to work on their English language skills. I made some good friends on those boozy nights and tons of fascinating conversations were had.
• elric 2y ago
  Similar thing in Belgium: "stamcafé" or "stamkroeg" in Dutch. It just refers to your local pub which you (and maybe some of your friends) frequent often enough to be a regular. Not to a table. Mine isn't even local, I regularly travel 60km by train for beers and good company in a nice atmosphere. The flag thing sounds like a very German thing to do. Maybe that's why German tourists are notorious for using towels to try to reserve chairs in tourist resorts the world over? Like draping a flag over a Stammstuhl.
  • RamblingCTO 2y ago
    We always liked to organize in fraternities and "Vereine" (club) since the Kaiserreich. Everyone and their mom had a specialised frat or club for identity and community. And they had flags, colors, songs, customs and all of that to show belonging. You have things like the Wandervogelbewegung (think boy scouts), Pfadfinder (actual boy scouts), Bündische Jugend, Schützenvereine and things like that. I really mean there was a (is) community for everyone, complete with uniforms and stuff. Typing this I get a bit sad that these communities are missing nowadays and didn't really made it into modern life. Hitler used a lot of them for his purposes and after WWII it was just old people is what I think about them nowadays. It's too conservative and traditional for me. Got a bit off track with the comment, but I was replying to the flag thingy. As a German it makes total sense.
  • consf 2y ago
    [dead]
  • Ringz 2y ago
    > Maybe that's why German tourists are notorious for using towels to try to reserve chairs in tourist resorts the world over? Perhaps the Germans started it, but they are by no means the only nation doing this anymore. They may not even be leading in this discipline anymore. Over 20 years ago, I already observed English people reserving the best poolside loungers with towels before sunrise.
• begueradj 2y ago
  I saw last night, in a French documentary, a middle aged man who lost 90% of his friends few months after he lost his job.
  • em-bee 2y ago
    that's why it is important to make friends outside of work. and for friends at work i try to find common interests that are unrelated to work.
• consf 2y ago
  [dead]
• anshumankmr 2y ago
  Nothing similar in Bangalore. Quelle suprise... Though we have something along the lines at work "Chai/Sutta par charcha"
• numpy-thagoras 2y ago
  I live in the PNW, but come from Croatia. When I went back after a long time away (about 7 years) and having grown up, I observed something with complete disbelief: My friends from there, would go to their friends' ice cream parlour, grab some coffees and a beer at 8 PM. For the next four hours, they would do nothing but tell funny stories and laugh until they couldn't laugh any more. These guys literally spent 4 hours laughing together. They did this the next day, and the next, and many more until I had to reluctantly go back to the airport and fly back to the PNW. Nothing even remotely like this has happened since last going back. Every time I think back to it, it seems like some impossible other reality.
  • lars_francke 2y ago
    First time I saw "PNW" It probably means Pacific Northwest.
    • Aachen 2y ago
      What even is to the north west of the pacific ocean, do they mean Korea/Japan?
      • elpocko 2y ago
        Western North America, bounded by the Pacific Ocean.
        • chasd00 2y ago
          But doesn’t include California.
          • Der_Einzige 2y ago
            Yes it fking does. The Bay Area and coastal Northern California is practically identical to Portland climate wise. Check a map of the PNW, nor cal is usually included.
• josefrichter 2y ago
  Same thing in Czechia, except the Stammgäste meet several times a week..
• josefrichter 2y ago
  In Lyon, France, there are traditional “eating and drinking societies” called Francs-Mâchons. You can see them also in the Lyon episode of Parts Unknown with Tony Bourdain on YouTube.
  • anthk 2y ago
    The Basque Country too, both in France and Spain. We call the 'txokos', in Spanish, sociedad gastronómica (no translation is needed).
  • ahartmetz 2y ago
    I think there used to be a similar thing in Germany, the "Kulturverein". AFAIK, these were similar clubs about nothing particular (presumably, food and drinks were served when they met) - but these days, the few remaining ones are actually about promoting art and culture, it seems.
• dschuetz 2y ago
  Ironically, the Stammtisch culture in Germany did not exactly help to counter the loneliness epidemic, if anything it softened the rise. People are lonely more than ever still.
• richardw 2y ago
  Last week I joined about 19 other guys who meet at 6am for a light exercise, sharing and coffee routine on a beach. It’s great. Just pitch when you can, instant network. It seems fundamentally there for mental health (combating loneliness and all the things that leads to), but so many other beneficial side effects. Recommend.
• eska 2y ago
  As a German I was really surprised that this isn’t something that’s done everywhere. Personally I’ve been running a Stammtisch for Japanese for 15 years now, and taken part in 2 others for over 10. It’s really not complicated. You ask the bar owner whether you can have a table at the bar every month, and how many people will come, that’s it. If you do it Monday-Thursday it’s better for them, because the bar will be emptier and they will know how many waiters to call in. They might even make drinks cheaper for you.
  • usr1106 2y ago
    There are different meanings to Stammtisch. What you describe is more like a regular meetup around a special topic. Those are not marked as Stammtisch in the pub, altough attendees call it like that. The other meaning is high alcohol consumption and extreme populist opinions. That's the Stammtisch of the pub.
    • eska 2y ago
      I don’t think that was ever true. A Stammtisch is not primarily about drinking, with something more refined on the side as an excuse. But I can imagine raging alcoholics like to believe that.
• weinzierl 2y ago
  Stammtisch is closed society. The fact that the members do not close the doors behind them and sit in public should not let fool you. Never sit at the Stammtisch table (which is not always obviously recognizable) if you were not explicitly invited. In essence it is not unlike a British club. Not much help against loneliness if you are not deeply integrated in the community already and therefore likely not very lonely to begin with. The less romantic way to see it, is that it is a hundreds of years old customer loyalty program. Regulars get a guaranteed seat and other perks like artfully crafted beer kegs with their names.
  • Moru 2y ago
    Also a good place for under the table negotiations for state contracts but that is less spoken about :-)
  • nisa 2y ago
    As a German: you are exactly right. Sitting down at the Stammtisch is asking for trouble. It's reserved for the die hard locals - it's coming from Stammkundschaft which roughly translates to regulars. Still it's perfectly fine to sit next to it or somewhere else in the bar. Usually sitting directly at the bar is the place for newbies or foreigners and people are often willing to talk and interact. Sometimes the bar keeper is interested in having a conversation or someone ordering a few beer initiates a conversation and invites you to their table. Unfortunately my experience (in eastern Germany, maybe it's not universal) you tend to meet lot's of broken and fucked up people in bars and very little normal ones. At least I seem to have a talent to attract assholes and fascists that tell me their world view after a few beer. But this depends on the bar and the area. It's not all happy happy live.
    • bratwurst3000 2y ago
      i live in southwest germany and that seems like a esst germany problem. here i can meet interesting people in bars. for sure drunk nuts but hey its a bar. i think the real german thing against loneliness is the Verein. you go there and share interests with people and usually u become friends witj them.
    • 2y ago
• teekert 2y ago
  Last year I wen't to fosdem alone, met up with some people who listen to the same podcasts... We had a great time! You know when you are forced to socialize and you don't know what to talk about? Well, that doesn't happen when you are with a group of people who are all avid self-hosters, they all have cool setups and there is so much to learn. It may feel weird, but it's so worth it to do this, even if you generally have a bad time in some bar while your normal (normie) friends are out socializing with the people around them.
  • em-bee 2y ago
    every linux user group. wherever i go i look for them. but boardgames work like that too. see my other comment.
• nox101 2y ago
  Stammtisch might help a little but for me, loneliness comes from lack of a lover. It's not the sex, it's the support, hugs, caresses, pillow talk, companionship that, at least I, need. I had a weekly drink up for 15yrs and seeing friends 3-4 times a week for dinner and activities. It was 100x better than not but not sufficient to cure the loneliness of not having a life companion. Of course good relationship > single > bad relationship
  • zelphirkalt 2y ago
    This is what many people in relationships, especially many of those who have always had an easy time getting into relationships, don't get. How much their partner is a support for them and how much more exhausting it can be to live without a partner to support each other. Of course that is also a kind of work and effort needed, but each gives as they can and when they can and if that works out in sufficient amount, then the relationship has a good chance of surviving.
    • ahartmetz 2y ago
      Worse still, bashing on "incels" is totally fine.
      • BadHumans 2y ago
        People bash on incels because they blame women for all the problems in their life.
        • ahartmetz 2y ago
          I guess some do? But I'm not sure if it's a defining characteristic.
          • nicbou 2y ago
            The word has been associated with the worst kind of involuntary celibate people for a very long time. It’s a defining characteristic to many people when they use that term.
• mjsweet 2y ago
  When my wife and I lived in Canberra, we made friends with a few couples who met at alternate homes every Sunday night, almost without fail. I miss that so much. All I want to do is have dinner with the same group of people every week. We moved to Melbourne and then back to Brisbane, but we were never able to replicate that.
• junga 2y ago
  In German there's also the word Stammtischparole (barroom cliché). It basically describes views and ideas so populist that no one dared to say outside the Stammtisch. Until recently…
• crossroadsguy 2y ago
  Around here the main culprits of spreading loneliness, esp. among men and women in their late 20s and later, are marriage and kids and the victims are those who didn't go for it, or didn't happen for them. Now, we can get into the deep debates of "you can be lonely in a family or among people" but let's keep that aside for some other day. It must be a different geography/culture thing but if I want to deal with loneliness a bar or a pub is probably the last place I'd go looking for people to spend time with drunk. Hobbies, workshops, sports are the venues that work. For me letter writing seems to work - but very little. Met some friends and if they are from nearby cities or my own city then we kind of make time to meet et cetera. But it's not sustainable. What this article lists is more like - there is already a group of friends who meet at a reserved table regularly. How does it even begin to work against loneliness? Loneliness IMHO is when you have no one to spend time with or they can't make time or you can't make time. It comes down to this - you might want to figure out what kind of person you are early in life (as in mid 20s early) and what do you need in life in terms of company and possibly work on possible loneliness later in life - or plan against it - but that doesn't happen, does it? Also, at least in our generation's case, the social scene changed faster than one could cope and the COVID was almost like pulling the rug. Before and after were so different that felt unrecognisable. I have friends who loved the closed world of COVID and couldn't care less about the lack of people who give them their time and want their time, on the other hand there are people like me who are getting more miserable everyday for the lack of it and now wonder whether going for marriage probably would have been a better decision practically and realistically. Then you wonder maybe not. My fight against it is by keeping very fit, resuming running, resuming reading (as in active reading otherwise it never stopped), get into cinema (again actively - join some film clubs/forums etc), multiple weekly sports (and one daily), and starting gym (which is part of keeping fit of course) et cetera. And the most important - I am still dealing with it - is fighting procrastination. The keeping fit part really helps, it might not seem so. But it does. It helps both physically and mentally.
  • ANewFormation 2y ago
    Kids and marriage also make it practically impossible to not meet other people. If someone did a study on loneliness vs fertility rates, it'd probably be a near perfect correlation. The modern era of Tinder, normalised deviancy, and so on is really setting people up for a very uncomfortable later life. And I say 'later' but it's really the overwhelming majority of your life, especially if you discount your earlier years where we're all just basically retarded.
• changadera 2y ago
  Surely it should be called national socialising?
  • OldGuyInTheClub 2y ago
    That's well and good until the table has one too many and invades Poland.
• chasd00 2y ago
  I wonder if I suffer from loneliness. I see my wife, MIL (she lives in my garage apartment) and two boys everyday but that’s about it since I work from home. Last week and lady came by and did a medical evaluation for my life insurance renewal. We chatted for a few min while she drew my blood and filled out paperwork. It was the highlight of my week and just talking to her was an amazing experience. I think I need to get out more haha
• fidotron 2y ago
  Coming from the UK to NA one of the big shocks of bars/pubs here is the near insistence on table service (and tipping). A major benefit of the UK and Irish setup is they are far more open mixer environments, for humans and dogs alike. This Stammtisch is classic NPR thinking a european solution exists while ignoring that it replicates the exact same cliquiness promoted by their over regulated environments. It is very clear that younger generations are rejecting all of this anyway, partly due to reduced drinking, but seem to lack adequate substitutes. Several younger colleagues have flat out expressed the view that the idea any romantic couple ever met in a pub or bar is just Hollywood nonsense, and they were completely serious.
• 698969 2y ago
  A friend recently created a discord server to match board game players travelling on the same ICE train (German long distance trains). https://bahn.party https://bahn.party There's a bot that lets you search trains and then creates a channel for the one you select and you meet with others on the same train and play board games or just have a chat. Feels apt to share in this thread.
  • lippihom 2y ago
    I don't take trains as much as I should but this is awesome - love it.
  • Macacity 2y ago
    this sounds great! Sadly it's on discord and not publicly accessible
• npc73x 2y ago
  yes, it's true, the current state of social media is too toxic to interact with people. I don't want to interact with people who actively or encouraging the hates and spam contents.
• idunnoman1222 2y ago
  Literally go to your local and become a regular… tale as old as time
• asdf6969 2y ago
  Written like an alien trying to understand friendship
• bentt 2y ago
  I’m an American. I play soccer once a week with a mix of Americans and Immigrants. Recently I started meeting for coffee after with some of the guys. This was prompted by a Serbian, but in attendance regularly is a Hungarian, a Jamaican, and occasionally some Vietnamese guys. We call it the UN but more importantly, these guys know how to sit and talk. The regularity of it makes it more likely to continue. It has done more for my mood in the past few months than anything else. Just sitting and talking and having coffee. As a group. Just men.
• johnea 2y ago
  Personally, I have no idea what y'all are talking about. I enjoy seeing other people, I went sailing with a group of friends yesterday, but I absolutely enjoy spending most of my time alone. How anyone can be "lonely" with 8 billion other people on the planet is just incomprehensible to me. For me the whole place is just way too full of people. I really relish my time alone. This has to be some "raised on the internet" kind of millennial phenomenon. As a barely boomer, born at the end of the '50s, the US population has tripled since my childhood. I really miss the open spaces that weren't packed full of people.
  • em-bee 2y ago
    loneliness is not about not wanting to be alone. it's about finding it difficult to connect to others even if you actually enjoy it. i am fairly introvert i guess and i can walk through a city with millions of people without connecting to anyone, which is mostly ok, but at the same time i also feel unable to connect to anyone just like that. the last time i was alone in a city for a few days the only person i connected to was a friend of a friend who introduced us. otherwise i usually look for specific activities like tech meetups, or other public social events
  • Thiez 2y ago
    > Personally, I have no idea what y'all are talking about. > > I enjoy seeing other people, I went sailing with a group of friends yesterday, but I absolutely enjoy spending most of my time alone. That's wonderful that you don't have this problem at all! And that none of your friends have ever been lonely either. I sure hope this lack of personal experience won't make it hard for you to emphathize with those who do suffer from loneliness. > How anyone can be "lonely" with 8 billion other people on the planet is just incomprehensible to me. For me the whole place is just way too full of people. I really relish my time alone. Uhoh. Let's start with the 8 billion people nonsense. How is that relevant? One is unlikely to meet the almost 3 billion Chinese and Indians in, say, Alaska. The fact that billions of people exist somewhere else is not helpful. Doubly so because with most of those billions there is no shared language, no shared culture or experience, and generally little else to build into a meaningful connection. I would argue that we can reasonably exclude the earth population that you are unlikely to meet on a regular basis. This filters out about 8 billion, leaving us with "only" millions for those living in or near big cities, and hundreds to thousands for those who live in the middle of nowhere. All of this is ignoring the fact that people manage to feel lonely even in a crowd or even at a party. Ultimately loneliness is not about being alone in the literal sense but about not having (enough) meaningful connections. Having no connections in a crowd of millions only emphasizes the loneliness, it does not solve it. > This has to be some "raised on the internet" kind of millennial phenomenon. Dismissing the existence of elderly loneliness and spitting on a younger generation all in one sentence. Jup, kids these days, they suck right? You could really try some more empathy with people going through hard times and not dismiss their lived experiences just because it hasn't happened to you (yet). > As a barely boomer, Ah, there it is. > I really miss the open spaces that weren't packed full of people. Sure, but the US still has many places where you can walk for hours without meeting someone. Or you could move to Alaska. If that seems like a hand-wavy bullshit argument, consider what your 8 billion people argument might feel like to someone who is lonely. Maybe next time you go sailing ask your friends if they or someone they know have ever felt lonely, and try to stop yourself from arguing an dismissing their stories. You might learn something.
• smeeger 2y ago
  if you arent in contact with other people frequently enough that they start to get on your nerves, you will not fix your loneliness problem. thats why everyone is so lonely because everyone refuses to be irritated or deal with even the smallest amount of other peoples problems. “meetups” and discord are so unbelievably anemic and useless for the purpose of helping lonliness
• iteratethis 2y ago
  In the Netherlands we call it a "stamkroeg", your home bar. I've had the routine to attend one on most Saturdays and Sundays with a group of mates for 15 years straight. It's fun, relaxing and in a way also efficient if you have a large group of friends. A predictable moment where you catch up with everybody. Then most of us had children, but we continued with a home version of the routine. We meet every Sunday, same time, and we rotate whom is hosting it. I thoroughly enjoy it because this is exactly the age where friendships water down. And there's a very interesting side effect. This group of old bar mates effectively become extended family to the children of the hosts. They see all of us very regularly, often more than their grandparents or uncles/aunts which they typically have few of anyway. And it keeps going. As we see these children grow up, we throw opportunities at them. For sports, work, anything. I suppose it's common sense. When people spend regular time with each other, bonds and networks form. Common sense as it is, the modern age has few institutions to facilitate it.
• mediumsmart 2y ago
  Not sure about loneliness but for Germans, Stammtisch is indeed one way to fight.
• rurban 2y ago
  > It's an age-old German tradition where a group of like-minded people — traditionally men — meet up at a bar or a restaurant at a regular time to have drinks and chat. Actually my wife has much more Stammtisch events with her groups than me. And esp. the chatting is also more intense. In Germany