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Gukesh becomes the youngest chess world champion in history

1118 points by alexmolas 2y ago

alex1138 2y ago
At 18, this is no small thing. Kasparov was 22, I don't see Gukesh's record being broken for a long while
- ourmandave 2y ago
  With 12-year-old GMs running around it's hard to know how long. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess_prodigy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess_prodigy
  - david-gpu 2y ago
    Those statistics blow my mind. For reference, Bobby Fischer became a GM at fifteen.
    - verbify 2y ago
      Online and computer chess have changed things. 12 year old kids generally can't travel to tournaments, but they can play against other strong players or against the computer online. Fischer lived in New York, and therefore could play in the Manhattan Chess Club.
      - MrMcCall 2y ago
        Yes, they amass thousands upon thousands of games at a very young age. I did the same programming my C64 in 8th-10th grades. The hours just fly by, doing what you love. One other factor is that 3500-level chess engines are freely available for anyone with the net to analyze every situation, every move. And then there are the streamers like Hikaru who teach chess so brilliantly. He is a true one-off, to be that top-level and able to live-comment his own blitz games. It is an underappreciated and completely unique talent, and enlightening for the chess afficianado.
    - bmacho 2y ago
      Yes, they didn't know this back then that it was possible. If they had known, they would have certainly made Fischer a GM much much sooner
  - philipwhiuk 2y ago
    There's a decent gap between GM and world champion to be honest.
    - epolanski 2y ago
      Absolutely, a huge one. But still, chess is a game that favours young people that have more energy and can calculate more, and that peak is achieved in one's late teens.
    - wongarsu 2y ago
      But also a big gap between 12 and 18, so who knows
  - frakt0x90 2y ago
    There's also a decent amount of controversy around really young GMs. Basically that their parents game the system by choosing official tournaments with burnt out GMs with low ratings so they can get their norms easier. Mishra recently had a lot of backlash from top GMs with those types of accusations. If that's true, those players will likely never reach the top ranks, but who knows.
    - callingbull 2y ago
      I've seen the same suggested of Sergey Karjakin, and he made it to the top (and I've seen it suggested that it helped him get to the top, that being a GM sooner got him more access to top trainers sooner).
- keybored 2y ago
  Didn’t Kasparov say that he doesn’t consider this a World Chess Championship since the best player isn’t playing?
  - dyauspitr 2y ago
    Gukesh has beaten Magnus before. Sure Magnus is an demi god of chess but we haven’t seen him play this format against gukesh and that’s entirely his fault.
- DevX101 2y ago
  We're still relatively early in the chess engine era and there was an explosion of new young talent discovering chess in the covid years. I expect to see more young chess prodigies.
selectnull 2y ago
It was painful watching Ding Liren blunder the rook and realize what he had done.
- fernandotakai 2y ago
  i felt for ding, even though i was cheering for gukesh. i was so sure it was going to go into tiebreaks.
  - selectnull 2y ago
    I was looking forward to rapid, wanted more drama. In the end, Ding deservedly lost. He was constantly low on time; managed to play excellent in losing positions for the whole match but it took only a single mistake to lose the crown. One can do miracles only a few times before it fails.
- ceronman 2y ago
  It was. But he had 9 minutes vs more than an hour for Gukesh. The entire match has been Ding defending miraculously, I thought it was a matter of time before he eventually failed. The fact that it happened on the last moves of the last game, it's definitely hard for Ding, but fair for Gukesh IMO.
  - selectnull 2y ago
    Agree completely.
  - ronald_raygun 2y ago
    Well it sounds like an instance of "your keys are always in the last place you look, because then you stop looking"
    - qup 2y ago
      The match was more than one game
    - 2y ago
zwnow 2y ago
[flagged]
- leosanchez 2y ago
  > Ah yes, chess, the game where people love to remember sequences. You can remember openings. From the middle game, you have to "play".
  - zwnow 2y ago
    Listening to chess event commentators it's all sequences
    - eterm 2y ago
      Outside of the opening, Chess players tend to call them combinations, and it's not really memorisation as such, it's pattern recognition, and it's a very difficult skill to master. Outside of the opening, it's not rote memorisation, it's a mix of pattern recognition and calculation. You have to spot familiar patterns, but from a "distance", and calculate whether the differences in your specific instance are crucial or not to the pattern. Chess is incredibly difficult.
      - zwnow 2y ago
        Yea played myself for a while but didn't want to remember 300 openings for both colors. Chess is only fun if both people are equally bad at it.
        oneeyedpigeon 2y ago
        You should probably pick one or two openings and focus on those rather than trying to learn every opening right from the beginning. Like almost every game, chess is more fun when the two players are equally matches. Playing online (chess.com or lichess.org) lets you play an opponent who is perfectly matched to your level.
        2y ago
hbn 2y ago
For being the headline, they sure hid his age pretty well. Not at the opening paragraph nor end of the article, nor photo captions near the top or bottom. cmd+f "years" 0 results cmd+f "age" 0 results And scanning for numbers is useless since most of the article is chess moves written out.
- deleted 2y ago
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- pmcl 2y ago
  [flagged]
- gnaman 2y ago
  for anyone wondering hes 18
  - Jorge1o1 2y ago
    thank you!
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - boringg 2y ago
    Seems like its not that big of an accomplishment relative to the way the headline makes it (obviously a big personal accomplishment). I figure 18 year old chess should have the mental abilities and maybe experience at that point to be able to rise to the top...
    - nottorp 2y ago
      ... but you can infer from the HN post title that it's unusual.
      - boringg 2y ago
        Agreed. I think all the people who don't like my take i offer this. Blasting a headline like that typically implies like a 13-14 year old. This is impressive but its not some massive upset - 18 is a grown adult for all intents and purposes (brain still developing true…)
laydn 2y ago
Terrible time management from Ding Liren in the most critical game of the match, leading to a very simple blunder. Painful to witness.
- trey-jones 2y ago
  Apparently poor time management throughout the match, though I didn't see every game. It sounds like he was lucky to survive 6-6.
  - deleted 2y ago
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  - epolanski 2y ago
    He wasn't, Ding has played some terrific chess during this tournament. But honestly both players lack an end game killer instinct.
trey-jones 2y ago
Spoiler alert! I was planning to watch the recap without knowing the outcome, but I'm not that invested. Congratulations to the new champion.
- hilux 2y ago
  This video is quite fun: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDtECNekJ-4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDtECNekJ-4
gizmodo59 2y ago
What a match! It was sad to see the blunder by Ding. Reminded me of Nepo dropping pieces in the tie-break last time. But its a great sportmanship by Ding as he said its a fair outcome given all the games they have played.
FactolSarin 2y ago
What is the deal with Gukesh's last name? It's officially listed as just D on his FIDE profile. I asked a couple Indian coworkers who said it was probably just being abbreviated for being long, but honestly it's not that long of a name and Gukesh isn't from the same region as them. I've read elsewhere that Telugu speaking people don't really use last names.
- alephnerd 2y ago
  > What is the deal with Gukesh's last name In Tamil Nadu, an initial is often used in the surname due to the Periyar/Dravidian movement in the 20th century. Furthermore, plenty of people in Tamil Nadu historically didn't even use surnames. Gukesh is Telugu, but his family are Chennai natives. Chennai becoming part of TN instead of Telugu-speaking Andhra Pradesh was very politically charged in the early days of India.
  - FactolSarin 2y ago
    Ah, so it's an anti-caste thing?
    - alephnerd 2y ago
      Historically yes. But in 2024 it's just a naming convention now. Being Telugu in Tamil Nadu, they probably adopted Tamil naming conventions to make life easier. States in India are basically different countries, and the existing state borders for most states don't make sense.
      - benatkin 2y ago
        Reminds me of falsehoods programmers believe about… https://github.com/kdeldycke/awesome-falsehood https://github.com/kdeldycke/awesome-falsehood
        atulatul 2y ago
        This is good.
thom 2y ago
Well, Ding's prediction was right, it wasn't a short draw. Horrible end to a another pretty disappointing cycle. Ding's game 12 win to tie the match was a positional masterpiece but it ultimately seems fitting that his blunder decided the result. Hope he gets a long break from classical chess and finds his way back to enjoying the game.
- MrMcCall 2y ago
  Ding has nothing to be ashamed of. He fought like a true warrior. He was a great champion, with class and brilliance. I just don't think he was physically as strong as he could be, and that affects one's ability to think as they must at that level. All said, tho, it was definitely Gukesh's time, and being 18 has some serious benefits in terms of recovery and stamina.
  - thom 2y ago
    I don't think 26. a4 was fighting like a true warrior, it was more giving up half your kingdom in the hope that your opponent will then accept a peace treaty.
    - MrMcCall 2y ago
      I can't speak to the subtleties of chess, but I did watch Hikaru's recap and he was of a similar opinion. I still think Ding was physically and/or emotionally compromised to some extent. That's why I still consider his effort lionine, because his game 12 game was masterful and he was in it until the end. I hope he holds his head high.
- deleted 2y ago
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seanhunter 2y ago
That was a absolutely horrible finish to a really exciting championship if you ask me. For anyone who doesn't know, there was a lot of drama because Gukesh was playing amazingly coming into this (eg winning the gold medal on board 1 at the olympiad in crushing style) and Ding had been playing terribly. Then there were 13 games of back and forth with stalwart defending and imaginative computer preparation by both sides, playing a lot of fresh chess and both of them going for the most critical and challenging moves in each position. Ding was playing a lot better than a lot of people had expected and the previous game had been one of the best games in a world championship for a long time. Everything was tied going into the last game of the classical portion and the "bar room consensus" was that since Gukesh was so young and doesn't focus at all on the faster forms of chess (rapid and blitz) and is therefore much lower rated than Ding in those formats, that if this game was a draw then Ding would be a substantial favourite in the ensuing tiebreaks. The final game was a complex struggle, with Ding keeping everything in lockdown with the white pieces so as not to give Gukesh a ghost of a chance. Most of the pieces had been traded and it was the most drawish of drawn endgames. Gukesh was up a pawn, but they both had a rook and bishop and all Ding had to do was hang on to his pieces and keep them well away from the enemy king. On the stream I was watching IM David Pruess had just been asked by someone in chat whether Gukesh could win and he said "1% chance". Then all of a sudden Ding made 3 bad moves in a row. The first two were just poor endgame technique, putting his rook and bishop both on bad squares too close to the enemy king, then the real blunder. Completely inexplicably he traded off the pieces. Now he was in an endgame that was just dead lost. After 14 games of 4+ hours each It had gone from being a dead draw with him a big favourite in tie breaks to all over in a few seconds.
- MrMcCall 2y ago
  Gukesh took him into the deep water the entire time, putting every possible strain on Ding's energy and reserves. It was the unrelenting pressure of an 18yo badass that cracked Ding, whom I truly feel sorry for. He is a great player and a very, very nice human being. What is crazy is that Gukesh has only been playing chess for a little more than 11 years. ETA: And Ding fought like a lion!
  - 2y ago
MrMcCall 2y ago
Wow. What a match. Been watching with my son, a chess lover since we started watching the Magnus-Fabi match. Now, my son loves his chess club and has retired me from playing :-) Two thoughts: 1) Gukesh took Ding into the deep water the entire time. Few people realize how draining chess is, especially at that level for this time control. It's beyond gruelling. Only programming is more difficult ;-) 2) Gukesh had an extraordinary advantage. His mental health and resilience over the course of the match were a testament to it. And, then, his graciousness, thankfulness, and humble joy demonstrated the Way. It was That which Gukesh first thanked in his post-match interview with GM Mo. It was how he first began each game. And That was the difference. That said, being 18 didn't hurt either :-)
- chairmansteve 2y ago
  "Only programming is more difficult....". Programming is definitely easier for me. In chess, my ego gets in the way. I hate to lose.
  - BurningFrog 2y ago
    Programming is easy. There is no opponent!
    - rossdavidh 2y ago
      ...although that means you can't wear your opponent down. The computer will always still be there, not doing what you want, no matter how long you draw things out, it will never screw up and start working because it's tired. But I agree that programming is (usually) easier than chess, certainly at these levels.
      - vlovich123 2y ago
        When you’re programming it’s an open book exam where the opponent is reality. You have all sorts of resources available to you and even the computer itself can help you find problems in your solution and you generally have as much time as you need. Chess is a closed book exam where your opponent is another human and you have a fixed amount of time to answer questions and managing that is as as important as asking and answering questions. The question asked is who prepared better and who understands the game better and playing the man is a better strategy typically than playing reality (ie they often make suboptimal moves to try to screw up preparation ideas). Different kinds of taxation but programming would generally be easier because there’s not as much pressure.
nomilk 2y ago
I was struck by Ding's thoughtfulness, objectivity and humility when asked how he felt after the match (while clearly utterly dejected): > How do you feel? > I think I played my best tournament of the year. I think it was a fair tournament in the end. I have no regrets. > Any message for fans? > Thank you, I will continue to play, I hope I can show strength like this time. Gukesh was equally as objective, humble, and gentlemanly in victory. These attributes are what makes chess and its superstars so appealing.
- MrMcCall 2y ago
  Absolutely. Nepo and Magnus seem to be cut from a different cloth, although Magnus has never had a moment where he could demonstrate whether or not he can be humble, because he has always just crushed. Anish Giri kind of took a shot at Magnus (with respect to his retiring from classical chess) in his early commentary with Petr Leko a few days ago. People are funny, and one doesn't usually get to be where Ding and Gukesh are without having a bit of an edge to their personality. That's what makes Ding and Gukesh so special to me.
  - ignoramous 2y ago
    You are quite the Chess enthusiast; I enjoy reading your comments!
    - MrMcCall 2y ago
      Thanks. My son and I first started watching together for Magnus-Fabi, so it's something we enjoy doing together. I enjoy the sporting aspect of it even though I've never been a particularly good chess player. I'm more interested in the human aspects of it, and I enjoy the commentaries by Leko, Bobby Chess (Robert Hess), Naroditsky, Giri, and Judit. I love learning from people who have achieved greatness. It was evident to me from the beginning that Ding was struggling physically (he had an occasionally rough-sounding cough throughout) and, perhaps, emotionally. And Gukesh was locked in from go. What a struggle!
  - robertlagrant 2y ago
hu3 2y ago
Did Magnus not compete?
- N-Krause 2y ago
  No, he did not compete in the last one either. I suspect, the results would have been different if he had.
- CSMastermind 2y ago
  No, he retired from the championship circuit last year which is why Ding was champion in the first place. He had concerns over the format and FIDE was unwilling to make changes. We're in a bit of a weird spot in chess right now because Magnus is still the consensus best player even though he's not the official champion.
- dentemple 2y ago
  To add a little more color... Magnus, in recent years, has been expressing his dislike for chess under classical time controls, seeing it as a battle of prep vs prep at the SuperGM level rather than skill vs skill. He doesn't seem to be enthusiastic about doing that prep anymore, and that seems to have been a factor in his decision to no longer fight for the WC title.
  - elevatedastalt 2y ago
    No, he has been expressing his dislike for the format of the WCC. He has no major issues with Classical time controls.
mythz 2y ago
I enjoyed the entire match and was surprised to see Ding putting up such a good fight given his poor form going into the match and Gukesh's great form after leading India to gold at the Olympiads. Ding was inconsistent at times but had moments of brilliance where he played like an engine, unfortunately he also exhibited poor time management throughout the match and failed to capitalize on his chances where he instead seemed content to play for draws whereas Gukesh would take every opportunity to play on, even when it would require taking a slight disadvantage. Unfortunately the last game was lost more than it was won, as Ding was looking for every chance to draw where he gave up a pawn in order to trade queens and a pair of rooks to go into an equal pawn down end game, which he eventually blundered under time pressure. It's a common sentiment in chess that to get a draw you have to play for a win, ultimately Gukesh's tenacity to keep games going and applying constant pressure eventually rewarded him as history's youngest Chess World Champion.
tech_ken 2y ago
Why would you spoil match 14 for me like this T_T
- coldpie 2y ago
  You're not the first to say this here, and I've been trying to think if there's a good solution to the problem. The headline could be something like, "Chess world championship winner declared." But I'll be honest, I probably wouldn't have clicked on it without the "youngest" hook, which is exactly the problem you're talking about. I don't know. Tough problem :)
- SubiculumCode 2y ago
  The solution is to stay off the computer, or at least news websites. Sports scores always get pushed into your face from unexpected locations
- wavemode 2y ago
  I empathize. The first thing I did when I opened my eyes this morning was watch a recap of the game, since I knew something somewhere (social media, reddit, youtube, etc) would probably have a headline that would spoil it.
SubiculumCode 2y ago
So does Magnus unretire?
- papercrane 2y ago
  I don't think so. He's still active, he just wants to play tournaments and not championships.
krishnasangeeth 2y ago
IMHO Gukesh is a great role model for everyone. Determination and humility shining right through. Though I really like Ding, it just felt that Gukesh was pushing more for a win in all the games and probably deserve this slightly more. Now hope that Magnus comes back into Candidates and we we have a Gukesh vs Magnus match in 2026.
- vlovich123 2y ago
  The way that the game has been played and FIDE ignoring his feedback about format makes me think that’s unlikely. Magnus has been fairly critical about the quality of play in many games and that the play has been boring. He’s also talked about the importance of making space for the next generation of talent to have something to strive for because of how dominant he still is.
univalent 2y ago
Two of the most humble, kind, professional players. And a great match.
epolanski 2y ago
It's quite surprising what the brain can do to people under stress. Everybody, even chess amateurs knew that the rook trade was a blunder instantly, yet pressure can play such terrible jokes.
amrrs 2y ago
It was quite sad to see Ding lose at the end. But it's been a very tough year and half or so. Precisely since he won the championship. I was quite sad at the way some very top players spoke of him. But the way he came back and almost took the game to tie breaks was unbelievable as a Ding fan. At the end of the day, it's generational shift that chess is witnessing. Almost written in destiny that it all started with candidates about how Alireza played against Gukesh and where it is now!
offbymuch 2y ago
Remarkable to watch the reactions in real-time, of both players and fans from India at the moment the decisive move is played. https://www.youtube.com/live/5-uuDuGQLQA?t=14497s https://www.youtube.com/live/5-uuDuGQLQA?t=14497s. Only started following chess due to the covid shutdowns, much for fun from a fans point of view than I had imagined it would be. Having the computer evaluation at the side really helps novices like me to know what's going on, interestingly a case of superior computer players helping as mere mortals to appreciate the game.
- silveira 2y ago
  Wow. Thanks for this links. This is amazing.
- gwd 2y ago
  Wow, that's a really fun video -- thanks!
- roughly 2y ago
  That’s a fantastic video - to see both of them see it in real time is incredible. The visible emotion from both is really something.
- zeven7 2y ago
  I used to watch a lot of Go. I watched live as Lee Sedol beat AlphaGo in one single game in the last match a human could feasibly compete against AI. Against all odds, and knowing AI had overtaken us, Lee Sedol found a move to get one last victory. [1] But I never saw anything like the crowd hype from the clip you posted, lol. This was next level in terms of the energy in the room. Very fun, thanks for sharing! [1] https://youtu.be/mzZWPcgcRD0 https://youtu.be/mzZWPcgcRD0
- le-mark 2y ago
  The winning move is at 4:01:45 for anyone looking (like I was).
  - svat 2y ago
    Just curious: The comment you're replying to had the link with timestamp 4:01:38 which is basically just before the move happens; is that not enough as it is?
deadbabe 2y ago
Must be amazing getting started off in life with such an amazing title out of the gate
- fernandopj 2y ago
  He didn't become a Master yesterday to say "out of the gate", in his eyes he's been playing chess seriously for "all" of this life, and professionally for half of it. It's a weird thing to say to someone who overcame so much while still young. He wasn't given anything "out of the gate".
- neofrommatrix 2y ago
  You should read about the amount of sacrifices he and his parents did. Chess is very expensive if you want to be a professional and progress to the GM title.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- qq66 2y ago
  He's not "getting started," it's just that he's finished his first marathon while most 18-year-olds are just tying their shoes for their first jog
justhw 2y ago
Here's a really good explainer video of the blunder at the end. https://youtu.be/FJU4BXsZCvg?si=qC961oYH3wkB6Vyk&t=925 https://youtu.be/FJU4BXsZCvg?si=qC961oYH3wkB6Vyk&t=925
rybosworld 2y ago
This was a great match overall, with a very dramatic/surprising end. But I disagree with other comments that are describing the overall championship in a favorable light. To me, this was some of the most boring chess I've watched. Ding was certainly trying to force draws in every game, which makes for some very unexciting lines. It's been suggested that Ding felt he had better chances in rapid formats, so forcing draws makes sense in that light. But it led to some extremely uncreative chess imo. Reminds me of many of the Magnus vs Fabi games in 2018.
- stormfather 2y ago
  I agree! It's a shame you're being downvoted just for expressing your opinion. Come on HN, downvoting is not for expressing disagreement... And yeah. People saying this was exciting chess are lemmings. It was absolutely not. It was yet another boring draw-fest. The format incentivizes prep and penalizes creativity and risk-taking. If my child got very good at that it would be hard to be proud. What a waste of human spirit! Why would I want to watch two extremely smart young men waste months of their lives on this for the sake of boring us? It's perverse. Let's move on to Chess960 already. THAT would be exciting.
  - 8note 2y ago
    draws are plenty exciting. prep is not
  - sourcepluck 2y ago
    > Please don't comment about the voting on comments. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading.
- 8note 2y ago
  in his defending games, ding got outprepped, but then consistently outplayed gukesh while being 30min to an hour lower on time. ding played a fanstastic prep game in one round, but it was very creative prep overall, that ding played very creative defenses for to hold to a draw
sumodm 2y ago
FYI: Gukesh is 18 yrs old and the youngest World Champion. He is also the 18th champion, in its 138 years history.
ken47 2y ago
It seems like Team Ding's strategy was to survive until tie breaks, where he would have been the favorite. Given Ding's form, they probably didn't believe he could reliably win games in classical versus an in-form Gukesh. As such, Ding went for draws in multiple games with clearly superior positions that someone like e.g. Magnus Carlsen would have played out and won. I'm sure they regret that strategy now.
ainiriand 2y ago
At least they could mention the age...
veidelis 2y ago
First of all, I have the greatest respect for the two individuals who played their hearts out in this event. Personally, I'm on the side which thinks that this format is a total stagnation. Maybe the new no-increment under 40 moves is an improvement, but overall it does not count. I agree with Carlsen that the format has to be drastically changed to determine who is the better player. Much more games, shorter games. Fischer said a long time ago that chess is dead. Considering how deep some of the variations go into theoretical territory, I can surely relate. Magnus has also expressed that it's very hard to find novelties. I'm also totally on the side that Fischer Random (chess 960) has to be included in this tournament. I believe that ultimately it will happen - sooner or later. Magnus also said that he thinks that his match with Caruana was of extremely high quality - those 14 games were all draws. I totally understand why Magnus didn't want to defend his title. On the other hand I can't comprehend how FIDE let this happen because a lot of people don't think of current tournament as high as they maybe should be, just because Magnus is not participating. That's a shame. Not on Carlsen, not on chess. On FIDE.
- Halian 2y ago
  I think something like game/30 would be better, but I’m not terribly edumacated on the intricacies of classical chess time controls.
- MP_1729 2y ago
  Really funny people complaining about classical chess, I don't know which games they have been watching. Nepo Magnus game 6, Nepo Ding many many games, Nepo Caruana draw on round 14 of candidates. ALL OF THEM WERE TERRIFIC GAMES. I don't understand what people mean by stagnation
- stormfather 2y ago
  Absolutely. It would be AMAZING if no prep was possible. Memorizing engine lines 20 deep is nothing to be proud of.
  - monooso 2y ago
    That's the appeal of Chess960 / Fischer Random / Freestyle Chess / whatever they're calling it this week.
sourcecodeplz 2y ago
Congratulations Gukesh! Amazing run, truly living a dream.
excalibur 2y ago
Why would you loudly proclaim "youngest world champion in history" in the headline and then never mention his age at any point? I clicked the article specifically looking for the answer to "how old is he" and was thoroughly disappointed. Author is fired from journalism permanently.
nilslindemann 2y ago
I am not happy with this result (quite the blunder deciding this match) and in general who played for the crown here. Ding is not in the top for a while now and Gukesh has rarely played in Top GM tourns. The silent champ (Magnus) is still around, winning tournaments. "World champion" currently means "some lucky Top GM" and not "the undisputed number one".
- nilslindemann 2y ago
  Ok, admittedly, in blitz and rapid Ding is quite close to the top.
- hilux 2y ago
  If I follow your logic, why have a world championship cycle in any sport - chess, tennis, soccer, whatever? We could just use the rating or ranking list.
teleforce 2y ago
Moral of the game, don't ever put white bishop in the white coner, or black bishop vice versa in the end game because it can be forced to sacrifice.
thom 2y ago
For anyone that wants to test their mettle, the FEN of the key position in this game was: B7/8/4b3/4kp2/5Rp1/6P1/1r6/6K1 w - - 16 55 Give yourself 10 minutes and 30 seconds increment as White and see if you can hold against Stockfish on maximum difficulty.
jedberg 2y ago
Since there seem to be a lot of chess nerds in here, I have a question. Why didn't Fischer chess ever take off? A lot of comments in here amount to "he went slightly off book and it was amazing!". Wouldn't Fischer chess take the game to a whole new level, making it so that all the opening books are useless and the midgame requires much more improv?
- MP_1729 2y ago
  Because tradition is incredibly important.
- hilux 2y ago
  It still might - that is an ongoing debate at the top of the chess world. For instance, Magnus Carlsen, the world number one by rating, is a fan of Fischer chess aka Chess960.
- judofyr 2y ago
  Many different reasons: 1. The biggest one is probably that there is already so much interest and depth in regular chess. "Everyone" focuses on it, so that's what your friends know and where you can find competitions and community. This leads to a chicken-egg problem where it hard to kick it off. It's basically like another board game. 2. Some opening positions in Fischer chess are quite awkward: The pieces are on squares where it takes a while for them to come into proper play. This can make the opening phase quite unsatisfying to play. You need to make a lot of extra moves before you actually get into the interesting parts. It's not necessarily more "fun" to play this way than regular chess. There's also some positions which are much better for white (although it's on average more balanced I believe) 3. IMO, regular chess is easier for lower-rated players. The choice of openings don't matter so much (either way the game is decided by someone hanging a piece), and it's a lot easier to follow existing games. In Fischer chess it can be even harder to know "okay, what do I do?", while in regular chess there's both general principles and systems to follow. This means that most newer players keep being exposed to regular chess instead of Fischer chess. > Wouldn't Fischer chess take the game to a whole new level, making it so that all the opening books are useless and the midgame requires much more improv? Magnus Carlsen is promoting and advocating for Freestyle Chess (same game as Fischer chess, but with different name): https://www.freestyle-chess.com/ https://www.freestyle-chess.com/. Maybe it'll take off.
benatkin 2y ago
surprised guke.sh isn't taken
Andrew_nenakhov 2y ago
Just the World Champion. Youngest FIDE World Champion (the title Gukesh just won) was Ruslan Ponomaryov, at 6681 days old. Gukesh is currently 6772 days old. (And no, we shouldn't go arguing that Ponomaryov wasn't a real champion because the indisputably best player chose not to play sometimes earlier and created all that mess, because currently we're in exactly same situation.)
- kelipso 2y ago
  Undisputed world champion and disputed world champion are different things than someone choosing not to compete. If you can’t compete, doesn’t matter the reason or excuses you can come up with, you are just not the world champion.
  - Andrew_nenakhov 2y ago
    So if Carlsen now would start his own chess association for whatever reasons, Gukesh's title would instantly diminish? No. FIDE champion is FIDE champion, case closed.
Reason077 2y ago
How come Gukesh got to sit in a really tall gaming-style chair which towers above Ding’s ordinary looking chair? To me that looks like a power move designed to intimidate the opposition. Is there a story behind it or do they just get to choose their own chairs?
- sebzim4500 2y ago
  They can pick their own chairs.
brcmthrowaway 2y ago
Congrats to Gukesh Let's convert that chess knowledge to deep learning for more $
gojomo 2y ago
He's 18.
xiaodai 2y ago
Also as a great symbolism of our times: An Indian beat a Chinese. India is rising while China is already in decline.
- queuebert 2y ago
  India did invent the game (probably).
chinesepapa 2y ago
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dougSF70 2y ago
He is considering https://chessladders.com/ https://chessladders.com/ sponsorship deal.
register 2y ago
Worst WCC in the history of chess. I would have been able to draw the endgame in the final game myself ( 1800 FIDE ) just by shuffling the rook around. Apart from game one, Ding was a shade of his former self, and played most of the time to swap pieces even when he had the initiative.
- rapfaria 2y ago
  Yes you would, after 2 weeks of playing 4+ hour matches, knowing Gukesh was playing not to draw all along since Liren is the better player on rapid/blitz (played in case of a draw), and having 10 minutes on the clock against your opponent's 1 hour.
pedroigor91 2y ago
One of the worst-played matches in the history of the world championships. Both players made huge mistakes, decisive mistakes in previous matches, and a decisive mistake in this last one. What happened to Ding? Ten years ago he was playing great chess, which was a pleasure to watch. Gukesh was playing a nervous game, making mistakes by players much lower than his rating. At times it seemed like two Fide Masters playing. Terrible. Carlsen did well to give up the title, because any of the challengers for the title today would be no match for him.
dapaintrain 2y ago
well yeah, but only because of Magnus.
lisper 2y ago
Just in case anyone besides me was wondering, he's 18 (the article didn't say). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gukesh_Dommaraju https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gukesh_Dommaraju
RexFactorem 2y ago
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OceanBreeze77 2y ago
Not an expert in chess, but I heard that the uniqueness in openings were an interesting characteristic of the match. Can someone explain this to me?
zookerterg 2y ago
[dead]
barfingclouds 2y ago
So that’s it for Magnus Carlson’s perfect streak?

1118 points by alexmolas 2y ago

alex1138 2y ago

At 18, this is no small thing. Kasparov was 22, I don't see Gukesh's record being broken for a long while

ourmandave 2y ago
With 12-year-old GMs running around it's hard to know how long. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess_prodigy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess_prodigy
- david-gpu 2y ago
  Those statistics blow my mind. For reference, Bobby Fischer became a GM at fifteen.
  - verbify 2y ago
    Online and computer chess have changed things. 12 year old kids generally can't travel to tournaments, but they can play against other strong players or against the computer online. Fischer lived in New York, and therefore could play in the Manhattan Chess Club.
    - MrMcCall 2y ago
      Yes, they amass thousands upon thousands of games at a very young age. I did the same programming my C64 in 8th-10th grades. The hours just fly by, doing what you love. One other factor is that 3500-level chess engines are freely available for anyone with the net to analyze every situation, every move. And then there are the streamers like Hikaru who teach chess so brilliantly. He is a true one-off, to be that top-level and able to live-comment his own blitz games. It is an underappreciated and completely unique talent, and enlightening for the chess afficianado.
  - bmacho 2y ago
    Yes, they didn't know this back then that it was possible. If they had known, they would have certainly made Fischer a GM much much sooner
- philipwhiuk 2y ago
  There's a decent gap between GM and world champion to be honest.
  - epolanski 2y ago
    Absolutely, a huge one. But still, chess is a game that favours young people that have more energy and can calculate more, and that peak is achieved in one's late teens.
  - wongarsu 2y ago
    But also a big gap between 12 and 18, so who knows
- frakt0x90 2y ago
  There's also a decent amount of controversy around really young GMs. Basically that their parents game the system by choosing official tournaments with burnt out GMs with low ratings so they can get their norms easier. Mishra recently had a lot of backlash from top GMs with those types of accusations. If that's true, those players will likely never reach the top ranks, but who knows.
  - callingbull 2y ago
    I've seen the same suggested of Sergey Karjakin, and he made it to the top (and I've seen it suggested that it helped him get to the top, that being a GM sooner got him more access to top trainers sooner).
keybored 2y ago
Didn’t Kasparov say that he doesn’t consider this a World Chess Championship since the best player isn’t playing?
- dyauspitr 2y ago
  Gukesh has beaten Magnus before. Sure Magnus is an demi god of chess but we haven’t seen him play this format against gukesh and that’s entirely his fault.
DevX101 2y ago
We're still relatively early in the chess engine era and there was an explosion of new young talent discovering chess in the covid years. I expect to see more young chess prodigies.

selectnull 2y ago

It was painful watching Ding Liren blunder the rook and realize what he had done.

fernandotakai 2y ago
i felt for ding, even though i was cheering for gukesh. i was so sure it was going to go into tiebreaks.
- selectnull 2y ago
  I was looking forward to rapid, wanted more drama. In the end, Ding deservedly lost. He was constantly low on time; managed to play excellent in losing positions for the whole match but it took only a single mistake to lose the crown. One can do miracles only a few times before it fails.
ceronman 2y ago
It was. But he had 9 minutes vs more than an hour for Gukesh. The entire match has been Ding defending miraculously, I thought it was a matter of time before he eventually failed. The fact that it happened on the last moves of the last game, it's definitely hard for Ding, but fair for Gukesh IMO.
- selectnull 2y ago
  Agree completely.
- ronald_raygun 2y ago
  Well it sounds like an instance of "your keys are always in the last place you look, because then you stop looking"
  - qup 2y ago
    The match was more than one game
  - 2y ago

zwnow 2y ago

[flagged]

leosanchez 2y ago
> Ah yes, chess, the game where people love to remember sequences. You can remember openings. From the middle game, you have to "play".
- zwnow 2y ago
  Listening to chess event commentators it's all sequences
  - eterm 2y ago
    Outside of the opening, Chess players tend to call them combinations, and it's not really memorisation as such, it's pattern recognition, and it's a very difficult skill to master. Outside of the opening, it's not rote memorisation, it's a mix of pattern recognition and calculation. You have to spot familiar patterns, but from a "distance", and calculate whether the differences in your specific instance are crucial or not to the pattern. Chess is incredibly difficult.
    - zwnow 2y ago
      Yea played myself for a while but didn't want to remember 300 openings for both colors. Chess is only fun if both people are equally bad at it.
      - oneeyedpigeon 2y ago
        You should probably pick one or two openings and focus on those rather than trying to learn every opening right from the beginning. Like almost every game, chess is more fun when the two players are equally matches. Playing online (chess.com or lichess.org) lets you play an opponent who is perfectly matched to your level.
      - 2y ago

hbn 2y ago

For being the headline, they sure hid his age pretty well. Not at the opening paragraph nor end of the article, nor photo captions near the top or bottom. cmd+f "years" 0 results cmd+f "age" 0 results And scanning for numbers is useless since most of the article is chess moves written out.

deleted 2y ago
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pmcl 2y ago
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gnaman 2y ago
for anyone wondering hes 18
- Jorge1o1 2y ago
  thank you!
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- boringg 2y ago
  Seems like its not that big of an accomplishment relative to the way the headline makes it (obviously a big personal accomplishment). I figure 18 year old chess should have the mental abilities and maybe experience at that point to be able to rise to the top...
  - nottorp 2y ago
    ... but you can infer from the HN post title that it's unusual.
    - boringg 2y ago
      Agreed. I think all the people who don't like my take i offer this. Blasting a headline like that typically implies like a 13-14 year old. This is impressive but its not some massive upset - 18 is a grown adult for all intents and purposes (brain still developing true…)

laydn 2y ago

Terrible time management from Ding Liren in the most critical game of the match, leading to a very simple blunder. Painful to witness.

trey-jones 2y ago
Apparently poor time management throughout the match, though I didn't see every game. It sounds like he was lucky to survive 6-6.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- epolanski 2y ago
  He wasn't, Ding has played some terrific chess during this tournament. But honestly both players lack an end game killer instinct.

trey-jones 2y ago

Spoiler alert! I was planning to watch the recap without knowing the outcome, but I'm not that invested. Congratulations to the new champion.

hilux 2y ago
This video is quite fun: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDtECNekJ-4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDtECNekJ-4

gizmodo59 2y ago

What a match! It was sad to see the blunder by Ding. Reminded me of Nepo dropping pieces in the tie-break last time. But its a great sportmanship by Ding as he said its a fair outcome given all the games they have played.

FactolSarin 2y ago

What is the deal with Gukesh's last name? It's officially listed as just D on his FIDE profile. I asked a couple Indian coworkers who said it was probably just being abbreviated for being long, but honestly it's not that long of a name and Gukesh isn't from the same region as them. I've read elsewhere that Telugu speaking people don't really use last names.

alephnerd 2y ago
> What is the deal with Gukesh's last name In Tamil Nadu, an initial is often used in the surname due to the Periyar/Dravidian movement in the 20th century. Furthermore, plenty of people in Tamil Nadu historically didn't even use surnames. Gukesh is Telugu, but his family are Chennai natives. Chennai becoming part of TN instead of Telugu-speaking Andhra Pradesh was very politically charged in the early days of India.
- FactolSarin 2y ago
  Ah, so it's an anti-caste thing?
  - alephnerd 2y ago
    Historically yes. But in 2024 it's just a naming convention now. Being Telugu in Tamil Nadu, they probably adopted Tamil naming conventions to make life easier. States in India are basically different countries, and the existing state borders for most states don't make sense.
    - benatkin 2y ago
      Reminds me of falsehoods programmers believe about… https://github.com/kdeldycke/awesome-falsehood https://github.com/kdeldycke/awesome-falsehood
      - atulatul 2y ago
        This is good.

thom 2y ago

Well, Ding's prediction was right, it wasn't a short draw. Horrible end to a another pretty disappointing cycle. Ding's game 12 win to tie the match was a positional masterpiece but it ultimately seems fitting that his blunder decided the result. Hope he gets a long break from classical chess and finds his way back to enjoying the game.

MrMcCall 2y ago
Ding has nothing to be ashamed of. He fought like a true warrior. He was a great champion, with class and brilliance. I just don't think he was physically as strong as he could be, and that affects one's ability to think as they must at that level. All said, tho, it was definitely Gukesh's time, and being 18 has some serious benefits in terms of recovery and stamina.
- thom 2y ago
  I don't think 26. a4 was fighting like a true warrior, it was more giving up half your kingdom in the hope that your opponent will then accept a peace treaty.
  - MrMcCall 2y ago
    I can't speak to the subtleties of chess, but I did watch Hikaru's recap and he was of a similar opinion. I still think Ding was physically and/or emotionally compromised to some extent. That's why I still consider his effort lionine, because his game 12 game was masterful and he was in it until the end. I hope he holds his head high.
deleted 2y ago
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seanhunter 2y ago

That was a absolutely horrible finish to a really exciting championship if you ask me. For anyone who doesn't know, there was a lot of drama because Gukesh was playing amazingly coming into this (eg winning the gold medal on board 1 at the olympiad in crushing style) and Ding had been playing terribly. Then there were 13 games of back and forth with stalwart defending and imaginative computer preparation by both sides, playing a lot of fresh chess and both of them going for the most critical and challenging moves in each position. Ding was playing a lot better than a lot of people had expected and the previous game had been one of the best games in a world championship for a long time. Everything was tied going into the last game of the classical portion and the "bar room consensus" was that since Gukesh was so young and doesn't focus at all on the faster forms of chess (rapid and blitz) and is therefore much lower rated than Ding in those formats, that if this game was a draw then Ding would be a substantial favourite in the ensuing tiebreaks. The final game was a complex struggle, with Ding keeping everything in lockdown with the white pieces so as not to give Gukesh a ghost of a chance. Most of the pieces had been traded and it was the most drawish of drawn endgames. Gukesh was up a pawn, but they both had a rook and bishop and all Ding had to do was hang on to his pieces and keep them well away from the enemy king. On the stream I was watching IM David Pruess had just been asked by someone in chat whether Gukesh could win and he said "1% chance". Then all of a sudden Ding made 3 bad moves in a row. The first two were just poor endgame technique, putting his rook and bishop both on bad squares too close to the enemy king, then the real blunder. Completely inexplicably he traded off the pieces. Now he was in an endgame that was just dead lost. After 14 games of 4+ hours each It had gone from being a dead draw with him a big favourite in tie breaks to all over in a few seconds.

MrMcCall 2y ago
Gukesh took him into the deep water the entire time, putting every possible strain on Ding's energy and reserves. It was the unrelenting pressure of an 18yo badass that cracked Ding, whom I truly feel sorry for. He is a great player and a very, very nice human being. What is crazy is that Gukesh has only been playing chess for a little more than 11 years. ETA: And Ding fought like a lion!
- 2y ago

MrMcCall 2y ago

Wow. What a match. Been watching with my son, a chess lover since we started watching the Magnus-Fabi match. Now, my son loves his chess club and has retired me from playing :-) Two thoughts: 1) Gukesh took Ding into the deep water the entire time. Few people realize how draining chess is, especially at that level for this time control. It's beyond gruelling. Only programming is more difficult ;-) 2) Gukesh had an extraordinary advantage. His mental health and resilience over the course of the match were a testament to it. And, then, his graciousness, thankfulness, and humble joy demonstrated the Way. It was That which Gukesh first thanked in his post-match interview with GM Mo. It was how he first began each game. And That was the difference. That said, being 18 didn't hurt either :-)

chairmansteve 2y ago
"Only programming is more difficult....". Programming is definitely easier for me. In chess, my ego gets in the way. I hate to lose.
- BurningFrog 2y ago
  Programming is easy. There is no opponent!
  - rossdavidh 2y ago
    ...although that means you can't wear your opponent down. The computer will always still be there, not doing what you want, no matter how long you draw things out, it will never screw up and start working because it's tired. But I agree that programming is (usually) easier than chess, certainly at these levels.
    - vlovich123 2y ago
      When you’re programming it’s an open book exam where the opponent is reality. You have all sorts of resources available to you and even the computer itself can help you find problems in your solution and you generally have as much time as you need. Chess is a closed book exam where your opponent is another human and you have a fixed amount of time to answer questions and managing that is as as important as asking and answering questions. The question asked is who prepared better and who understands the game better and playing the man is a better strategy typically than playing reality (ie they often make suboptimal moves to try to screw up preparation ideas). Different kinds of taxation but programming would generally be easier because there’s not as much pressure.

nomilk 2y ago

I was struck by Ding's thoughtfulness, objectivity and humility when asked how he felt after the match (while clearly utterly dejected): > How do you feel? > I think I played my best tournament of the year. I think it was a fair tournament in the end. I have no regrets. > Any message for fans? > Thank you, I will continue to play, I hope I can show strength like this time. Gukesh was equally as objective, humble, and gentlemanly in victory. These attributes are what makes chess and its superstars so appealing.

MrMcCall 2y ago
Absolutely. Nepo and Magnus seem to be cut from a different cloth, although Magnus has never had a moment where he could demonstrate whether or not he can be humble, because he has always just crushed. Anish Giri kind of took a shot at Magnus (with respect to his retiring from classical chess) in his early commentary with Petr Leko a few days ago. People are funny, and one doesn't usually get to be where Ding and Gukesh are without having a bit of an edge to their personality. That's what makes Ding and Gukesh so special to me.
- ignoramous 2y ago
  You are quite the Chess enthusiast; I enjoy reading your comments!
  - MrMcCall 2y ago
    Thanks. My son and I first started watching together for Magnus-Fabi, so it's something we enjoy doing together. I enjoy the sporting aspect of it even though I've never been a particularly good chess player. I'm more interested in the human aspects of it, and I enjoy the commentaries by Leko, Bobby Chess (Robert Hess), Naroditsky, Giri, and Judit. I love learning from people who have achieved greatness. It was evident to me from the beginning that Ding was struggling physically (he had an occasionally rough-sounding cough throughout) and, perhaps, emotionally. And Gukesh was locked in from go. What a struggle!
- robertlagrant 2y ago

hu3 2y ago

Did Magnus not compete?

N-Krause 2y ago
No, he did not compete in the last one either. I suspect, the results would have been different if he had.
CSMastermind 2y ago
No, he retired from the championship circuit last year which is why Ding was champion in the first place. He had concerns over the format and FIDE was unwilling to make changes. We're in a bit of a weird spot in chess right now because Magnus is still the consensus best player even though he's not the official champion.
dentemple 2y ago
To add a little more color... Magnus, in recent years, has been expressing his dislike for chess under classical time controls, seeing it as a battle of prep vs prep at the SuperGM level rather than skill vs skill. He doesn't seem to be enthusiastic about doing that prep anymore, and that seems to have been a factor in his decision to no longer fight for the WC title.
- elevatedastalt 2y ago
  No, he has been expressing his dislike for the format of the WCC. He has no major issues with Classical time controls.

mythz 2y ago

I enjoyed the entire match and was surprised to see Ding putting up such a good fight given his poor form going into the match and Gukesh's great form after leading India to gold at the Olympiads. Ding was inconsistent at times but had moments of brilliance where he played like an engine, unfortunately he also exhibited poor time management throughout the match and failed to capitalize on his chances where he instead seemed content to play for draws whereas Gukesh would take every opportunity to play on, even when it would require taking a slight disadvantage. Unfortunately the last game was lost more than it was won, as Ding was looking for every chance to draw where he gave up a pawn in order to trade queens and a pair of rooks to go into an equal pawn down end game, which he eventually blundered under time pressure. It's a common sentiment in chess that to get a draw you have to play for a win, ultimately Gukesh's tenacity to keep games going and applying constant pressure eventually rewarded him as history's youngest Chess World Champion.

tech_ken 2y ago

Why would you spoil match 14 for me like this T_T

coldpie 2y ago
You're not the first to say this here, and I've been trying to think if there's a good solution to the problem. The headline could be something like, "Chess world championship winner declared." But I'll be honest, I probably wouldn't have clicked on it without the "youngest" hook, which is exactly the problem you're talking about. I don't know. Tough problem :)
SubiculumCode 2y ago
The solution is to stay off the computer, or at least news websites. Sports scores always get pushed into your face from unexpected locations
wavemode 2y ago
I empathize. The first thing I did when I opened my eyes this morning was watch a recap of the game, since I knew something somewhere (social media, reddit, youtube, etc) would probably have a headline that would spoil it.

SubiculumCode 2y ago

So does Magnus unretire?

papercrane 2y ago
I don't think so. He's still active, he just wants to play tournaments and not championships.

krishnasangeeth 2y ago

IMHO Gukesh is a great role model for everyone. Determination and humility shining right through. Though I really like Ding, it just felt that Gukesh was pushing more for a win in all the games and probably deserve this slightly more. Now hope that Magnus comes back into Candidates and we we have a Gukesh vs Magnus match in 2026.

vlovich123 2y ago
The way that the game has been played and FIDE ignoring his feedback about format makes me think that’s unlikely. Magnus has been fairly critical about the quality of play in many games and that the play has been boring. He’s also talked about the importance of making space for the next generation of talent to have something to strive for because of how dominant he still is.

univalent 2y ago

Two of the most humble, kind, professional players. And a great match.

epolanski 2y ago

It's quite surprising what the brain can do to people under stress. Everybody, even chess amateurs knew that the rook trade was a blunder instantly, yet pressure can play such terrible jokes.

amrrs 2y ago

It was quite sad to see Ding lose at the end. But it's been a very tough year and half or so. Precisely since he won the championship. I was quite sad at the way some very top players spoke of him. But the way he came back and almost took the game to tie breaks was unbelievable as a Ding fan. At the end of the day, it's generational shift that chess is witnessing. Almost written in destiny that it all started with candidates about how Alireza played against Gukesh and where it is now!

offbymuch 2y ago

Remarkable to watch the reactions in real-time, of both players and fans from India at the moment the decisive move is played. https://www.youtube.com/live/5-uuDuGQLQA?t=14497s https://www.youtube.com/live/5-uuDuGQLQA?t=14497s. Only started following chess due to the covid shutdowns, much for fun from a fans point of view than I had imagined it would be. Having the computer evaluation at the side really helps novices like me to know what's going on, interestingly a case of superior computer players helping as mere mortals to appreciate the game.

silveira 2y ago
Wow. Thanks for this links. This is amazing.
gwd 2y ago
Wow, that's a really fun video -- thanks!
roughly 2y ago
That’s a fantastic video - to see both of them see it in real time is incredible. The visible emotion from both is really something.
zeven7 2y ago
I used to watch a lot of Go. I watched live as Lee Sedol beat AlphaGo in one single game in the last match a human could feasibly compete against AI. Against all odds, and knowing AI had overtaken us, Lee Sedol found a move to get one last victory. [1] But I never saw anything like the crowd hype from the clip you posted, lol. This was next level in terms of the energy in the room. Very fun, thanks for sharing! [1] https://youtu.be/mzZWPcgcRD0 https://youtu.be/mzZWPcgcRD0
le-mark 2y ago
The winning move is at 4:01:45 for anyone looking (like I was).
- svat 2y ago
  Just curious: The comment you're replying to had the link with timestamp 4:01:38 which is basically just before the move happens; is that not enough as it is?

deadbabe 2y ago

Must be amazing getting started off in life with such an amazing title out of the gate

fernandopj 2y ago
He didn't become a Master yesterday to say "out of the gate", in his eyes he's been playing chess seriously for "all" of this life, and professionally for half of it. It's a weird thing to say to someone who overcame so much while still young. He wasn't given anything "out of the gate".
neofrommatrix 2y ago
You should read about the amount of sacrifices he and his parents did. Chess is very expensive if you want to be a professional and progress to the GM title.
deleted 2y ago
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qq66 2y ago
He's not "getting started," it's just that he's finished his first marathon while most 18-year-olds are just tying their shoes for their first jog

justhw 2y ago

Here's a really good explainer video of the blunder at the end. https://youtu.be/FJU4BXsZCvg?si=qC961oYH3wkB6Vyk&t=925 https://youtu.be/FJU4BXsZCvg?si=qC961oYH3wkB6Vyk&t=925

rybosworld 2y ago

This was a great match overall, with a very dramatic/surprising end. But I disagree with other comments that are describing the overall championship in a favorable light. To me, this was some of the most boring chess I've watched. Ding was certainly trying to force draws in every game, which makes for some very unexciting lines. It's been suggested that Ding felt he had better chances in rapid formats, so forcing draws makes sense in that light. But it led to some extremely uncreative chess imo. Reminds me of many of the Magnus vs Fabi games in 2018.

stormfather 2y ago
I agree! It's a shame you're being downvoted just for expressing your opinion. Come on HN, downvoting is not for expressing disagreement... And yeah. People saying this was exciting chess are lemmings. It was absolutely not. It was yet another boring draw-fest. The format incentivizes prep and penalizes creativity and risk-taking. If my child got very good at that it would be hard to be proud. What a waste of human spirit! Why would I want to watch two extremely smart young men waste months of their lives on this for the sake of boring us? It's perverse. Let's move on to Chess960 already. THAT would be exciting.
- 8note 2y ago
  draws are plenty exciting. prep is not
- sourcepluck 2y ago
  > Please don't comment about the voting on comments. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading.
8note 2y ago
in his defending games, ding got outprepped, but then consistently outplayed gukesh while being 30min to an hour lower on time. ding played a fanstastic prep game in one round, but it was very creative prep overall, that ding played very creative defenses for to hold to a draw

sumodm 2y ago

FYI: Gukesh is 18 yrs old and the youngest World Champion. He is also the 18th champion, in its 138 years history.

ken47 2y ago

It seems like Team Ding's strategy was to survive until tie breaks, where he would have been the favorite. Given Ding's form, they probably didn't believe he could reliably win games in classical versus an in-form Gukesh. As such, Ding went for draws in multiple games with clearly superior positions that someone like e.g. Magnus Carlsen would have played out and won. I'm sure they regret that strategy now.

ainiriand 2y ago

At least they could mention the age...

veidelis 2y ago

First of all, I have the greatest respect for the two individuals who played their hearts out in this event. Personally, I'm on the side which thinks that this format is a total stagnation. Maybe the new no-increment under 40 moves is an improvement, but overall it does not count. I agree with Carlsen that the format has to be drastically changed to determine who is the better player. Much more games, shorter games. Fischer said a long time ago that chess is dead. Considering how deep some of the variations go into theoretical territory, I can surely relate. Magnus has also expressed that it's very hard to find novelties. I'm also totally on the side that Fischer Random (chess 960) has to be included in this tournament. I believe that ultimately it will happen - sooner or later. Magnus also said that he thinks that his match with Caruana was of extremely high quality - those 14 games were all draws. I totally understand why Magnus didn't want to defend his title. On the other hand I can't comprehend how FIDE let this happen because a lot of people don't think of current tournament as high as they maybe should be, just because Magnus is not participating. That's a shame. Not on Carlsen, not on chess. On FIDE.

Halian 2y ago
I think something like game/30 would be better, but I’m not terribly edumacated on the intricacies of classical chess time controls.
MP_1729 2y ago
Really funny people complaining about classical chess, I don't know which games they have been watching. Nepo Magnus game 6, Nepo Ding many many games, Nepo Caruana draw on round 14 of candidates. ALL OF THEM WERE TERRIFIC GAMES. I don't understand what people mean by stagnation
stormfather 2y ago
Absolutely. It would be AMAZING if no prep was possible. Memorizing engine lines 20 deep is nothing to be proud of.
- monooso 2y ago
  That's the appeal of Chess960 / Fischer Random / Freestyle Chess / whatever they're calling it this week.

sourcecodeplz 2y ago

Congratulations Gukesh! Amazing run, truly living a dream.

excalibur 2y ago

Why would you loudly proclaim "youngest world champion in history" in the headline and then never mention his age at any point? I clicked the article specifically looking for the answer to "how old is he" and was thoroughly disappointed. Author is fired from journalism permanently.

nilslindemann 2y ago

I am not happy with this result (quite the blunder deciding this match) and in general who played for the crown here. Ding is not in the top for a while now and Gukesh has rarely played in Top GM tourns. The silent champ (Magnus) is still around, winning tournaments. "World champion" currently means "some lucky Top GM" and not "the undisputed number one".

nilslindemann 2y ago
Ok, admittedly, in blitz and rapid Ding is quite close to the top.
hilux 2y ago
If I follow your logic, why have a world championship cycle in any sport - chess, tennis, soccer, whatever? We could just use the rating or ranking list.

teleforce 2y ago

Moral of the game, don't ever put white bishop in the white coner, or black bishop vice versa in the end game because it can be forced to sacrifice.

thom 2y ago

For anyone that wants to test their mettle, the FEN of the key position in this game was: B7/8/4b3/4kp2/5Rp1/6P1/1r6/6K1 w - - 16 55 Give yourself 10 minutes and 30 seconds increment as White and see if you can hold against Stockfish on maximum difficulty.

jedberg 2y ago

Since there seem to be a lot of chess nerds in here, I have a question. Why didn't Fischer chess ever take off? A lot of comments in here amount to "he went slightly off book and it was amazing!". Wouldn't Fischer chess take the game to a whole new level, making it so that all the opening books are useless and the midgame requires much more improv?

MP_1729 2y ago
Because tradition is incredibly important.
hilux 2y ago
It still might - that is an ongoing debate at the top of the chess world. For instance, Magnus Carlsen, the world number one by rating, is a fan of Fischer chess aka Chess960.
judofyr 2y ago
Many different reasons: 1. The biggest one is probably that there is already so much interest and depth in regular chess. "Everyone" focuses on it, so that's what your friends know and where you can find competitions and community. This leads to a chicken-egg problem where it hard to kick it off. It's basically like another board game. 2. Some opening positions in Fischer chess are quite awkward: The pieces are on squares where it takes a while for them to come into proper play. This can make the opening phase quite unsatisfying to play. You need to make a lot of extra moves before you actually get into the interesting parts. It's not necessarily more "fun" to play this way than regular chess. There's also some positions which are much better for white (although it's on average more balanced I believe) 3. IMO, regular chess is easier for lower-rated players. The choice of openings don't matter so much (either way the game is decided by someone hanging a piece), and it's a lot easier to follow existing games. In Fischer chess it can be even harder to know "okay, what do I do?", while in regular chess there's both general principles and systems to follow. This means that most newer players keep being exposed to regular chess instead of Fischer chess. > Wouldn't Fischer chess take the game to a whole new level, making it so that all the opening books are useless and the midgame requires much more improv? Magnus Carlsen is promoting and advocating for Freestyle Chess (same game as Fischer chess, but with different name): https://www.freestyle-chess.com/ https://www.freestyle-chess.com/. Maybe it'll take off.

benatkin 2y ago

surprised guke.sh isn't taken

Andrew_nenakhov 2y ago

Just the World Champion. Youngest FIDE World Champion (the title Gukesh just won) was Ruslan Ponomaryov, at 6681 days old. Gukesh is currently 6772 days old. (And no, we shouldn't go arguing that Ponomaryov wasn't a real champion because the indisputably best player chose not to play sometimes earlier and created all that mess, because currently we're in exactly same situation.)

kelipso 2y ago
Undisputed world champion and disputed world champion are different things than someone choosing not to compete. If you can’t compete, doesn’t matter the reason or excuses you can come up with, you are just not the world champion.
- Andrew_nenakhov 2y ago
  So if Carlsen now would start his own chess association for whatever reasons, Gukesh's title would instantly diminish? No. FIDE champion is FIDE champion, case closed.

Reason077 2y ago

How come Gukesh got to sit in a really tall gaming-style chair which towers above Ding’s ordinary looking chair? To me that looks like a power move designed to intimidate the opposition. Is there a story behind it or do they just get to choose their own chairs?

sebzim4500 2y ago
They can pick their own chairs.

brcmthrowaway 2y ago

Congrats to Gukesh Let's convert that chess knowledge to deep learning for more $

gojomo 2y ago

He's 18.

xiaodai 2y ago

Also as a great symbolism of our times: An Indian beat a Chinese. India is rising while China is already in decline.

queuebert 2y ago
India did invent the game (probably).

chinesepapa 2y ago

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deleted 2y ago

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dougSF70 2y ago

He is considering https://chessladders.com/ https://chessladders.com/ sponsorship deal.

Worst WCC in the history of chess. I would have been able to draw the endgame in the final game myself ( 1800 FIDE ) just by shuffling the rook around. Apart from game one, Ding was a shade of his former self, and played most of the time to swap pieces even when he had the initiative.

rapfaria 2y ago
Yes you would, after 2 weeks of playing 4+ hour matches, knowing Gukesh was playing not to draw all along since Liren is the better player on rapid/blitz (played in case of a draw), and having 10 minutes on the clock against your opponent's 1 hour.

pedroigor91 2y ago

One of the worst-played matches in the history of the world championships. Both players made huge mistakes, decisive mistakes in previous matches, and a decisive mistake in this last one. What happened to Ding? Ten years ago he was playing great chess, which was a pleasure to watch. Gukesh was playing a nervous game, making mistakes by players much lower than his rating. At times it seemed like two Fide Masters playing. Terrible. Carlsen did well to give up the title, because any of the challengers for the title today would be no match for him.

dapaintrain 2y ago

well yeah, but only because of Magnus.

lisper 2y ago

Just in case anyone besides me was wondering, he's 18 (the article didn't say). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gukesh_Dommaraju https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gukesh_Dommaraju

RexFactorem 2y ago

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OceanBreeze77 2y ago

Not an expert in chess, but I heard that the uniqueness in openings were an interesting characteristic of the match. Can someone explain this to me?

zookerterg 2y ago

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barfingclouds 2y ago

So that’s it for Magnus Carlson’s perfect streak?