4 ms·

The "affordability crisis" is mostly that recent college grads can't afford the lifestyle they are accustomed to in the location they desire with a job they wan

by bpt3 2y ago

The "affordability crisis" is mostly that recent college grads can't afford the lifestyle they are accustomed to in the location they desire with a job they want to work at. As has been stated repeatedly in this topic, the median US household has more disposable income than the median in any other country. That doesn't sound like there is a national crisis to me.

vkou 2y ago
Then why did the median household just decide an election largely based on economic anxiety? Is it because all the fear mongering about $5 eggs (They are $3 at my grocery, btw) was overblown?
- cuttothechase 2y ago
  I guess its relative to what the voters experienced or assumed they experienced before the 4 years vs what they were experiencing in the current election cycle. So if you are used to $3 eggs then a $5 egg would be potentially anxiety inducing. It wouldnt matter if the actual cost of eggs is $1 as the fair price in other countries.
  - seanmcdirmid 2y ago
    I went through this in Switzerland until I discovered that imported eggs from France were a lot cheaper than domestic eggs.
- bpt3 2y ago
  > Then why did the median household just decide an election largely based on economic anxiety? Because the median voter is largely uninformed and irrational. > Is it because all the fear mongering about $5 eggs (They are $3 at my grocery, btw) was overblown? It is overblown in that most Americans can comfortably afford essentials and more compared to their peers and most of history. That doesn't mean they aren't any less annoyed about the current economy, which is what drives votes.
  - account42 2y ago
    > Because the median voter is largely uninformed and irrational. Is this only true when they make decisions you don't agree with or also when they elect politicians you like?
    - bpt3 2y ago
      The median human is largely uninformed and irrational, so it's universally true regardless of a specific election outcome.
- TuringNYC 2y ago
  Because many of the folks here are probably high-earning engineers w/o grounding to the everyday experience. I grew up poor and have many friends who barely scrape by. My friends' anecdotal experience is no different than the anecdotal experience posted by GP about "BMWs" -- BMWs arent that common in real america.
  - eigen 2y ago
    > BMWs arent that common in real america. can you clarify where "real america" is? are places like Spartanburg, SC or Tuscaloosa, AL "real america" because you can commonly find BMWs and Mercedes in these areas.
    - Shog9 2y ago
      BMWs aren't that common anywhere in the US - if they were, they'd stop being a status symbol. That said, they're also not uncommon - a quick look at registration data suggests ~8% of cars "on the road" are BMWs, though of course just because a car legally could be on the road doesn't mean it's being driven with any regularity (I had a co-worker years back whose pastime was buying old BMWs and fixing them up; apparently they could be had relatively inexpensively at the time, as servicing was pricey). Which is why all this pedantry misses the point: there's nothing terribly special about BMW; total cost of ownership is probably higher than domestic brands, but you could just as well pad out your ordinary expenses with a Ford or GM payment; a new Suburban or nicer pickup can soak up just as much excess cash as that X3. Then again, Real Americans drive increasingly old used cars.
      - seanmcdirmid 2y ago
        They explicitly don’t import or make entry level BMW and Mercedes in the American market to keep it a status symbol, but you’ll see lots of 1 and 2 series BMWs in Europe and even Asia. In the USA, 3 series is entry level.
        dcrazy 2y ago
        I see tons of X1s, A classes, and GLAs in the Bay Area. I think the main reason certain models don’t get imported is because of size preferences. The Yaris (aka the Mazda 2) is no longer sold here but the Mazda 3 still sells. Relatedly, MB didn’t import the EQC into the US. Yet the GLC is the best-selling Mercedes in America. I just learned that they cancelled the EQC due to disappointing sales and will be introducing an electric GLC to the US.
- lazide 2y ago
  People know they are anxious, afraid, and confused. It’s easy to point fingers at something (anything, really) and have it stick when the actual cause - including bad health habits, unmet social needs, a constant barrage of BS on the media, and no meaningful plan or hope to actually resolve any of this - seems unapproachable/unresolvable.
- fsckboy 2y ago
  >Then why did the median household just decide an election largely based on economic anxiety? anxiety because their standard of living went down from before the high inflation from the economic so-called stimulus, and election because they trust Trump to grow the economy by removing obstacles to growth. The US economy is more dynamic than the European economy because of less regulation and bureaucracy. As one example, companies are more willing to hire workers for a speculative new project if they don't have to pay extensive wages to lay people off if the project fails. American workers are used to it and are willing to take good jobs when they are offered, and it just makes the economy go faster, "ahead of its rivals".
- FireBeyond 2y ago
  The same electorate who caused one of the most common searches on election day to be "Did Biden drop out?"? That informed electorate?
- prmoustache 2y ago
  >Then why did the median household just decide an election largely based on economic anxiety? Mosty because of marketing and social medias. When you are targeted 24h/d by ads on what shit you should buy or subscribe to and you feel you couldn't afford 10% of it while your social medias feed seems to show a lot of people enjoying them, you feel like cost of living is way too high.
- refurb 2y ago
  It’s actually relatively simple. Because when inflation got under control, prices didn’t go down. They just stopped going up so fast. We’re at the tail end of the most significant period of inflation in the US since the 1970’s. While incomes are growing slowly and unemployment is low, the pain of inflation is still being felt. Until real incomes grow significantly, people are going to feel worse off than before the period of inflation.
harimau777 2y ago
The idea that I get talking to people from other developed countries is that they don't have near the difference in quality of life that America does. College grads have desired locations because life in, for example, the deep South is pretty grim.
- deepsun 2y ago
  It's only grim in comparison. I remember the story of a remote mexican tribe, that lived poorly, but happily as they didn't know they are poor. Once they got connected to civilization, they saw that others have such a nice things like sneaker shoes, and their lives changed, everyone agreed it made them unhappy. I've traveled the world a lot, including the US South. They are VERY rich out there, but think they are poor, that's it.
  - bobthepanda 2y ago
    one important distinction in the US is that we have a requirement to get insurance for nearly everything (car, house, etc.) and these are some of the fastest ballooning costs; and homeowner insurance in the US is actually not separately included in CPI. https://archive.ph/cvorJ https://archive.ph/cvorJ
- 0xDEAFBEAD 2y ago
  The US is a large, diverse population across a large land area. Major variation is to be expected. But there is also that famous stat that income in Mississippi is on par with Britain or France. https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2016/03/07/still-true-even-mississippi-is-richer-than-britain/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2016/03/07/still-tr... https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/its-great-to-live-in-the-american-economy/ https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/its-great-to-live-in-t... I agree with deepsun that the comparison factor is huge here: https://www.optimallyirrational.com/p/the-aim-of-maximising-happiness-is https://www.optimallyirrational.com/p/the-aim-of-maximising-...
seadan83 2y ago
My sampling bias is of college grads living dirt poor, had been, have been, will be. Recent friend was praying her car would not break down because she could hardly afford gas, let alone to do any kind of repairs. Sampling bias is a bitch. Do you have numbers otherwise that it is really just lifestyle outpacing income for college grads? Perhaps the outcomes of college grads are skewed, devil is in the details. The experience of college grads is pretty certainly washed away when looking at medians of much larger populations.
- topkai22 2y ago
  The National Association of Colleges and Employers survey puts the average new grad salary at $68,000/year (https://www.naceweb.org/docs/default-source/default-document-library/2024/publication/executive-summary/2024-nace-winter-salary-survey-executive-summary.pdf?Status=Master&sfvrsn=b8ff91c4_3 https://www.naceweb.org/docs/default-source/default-document...) That’s ~$7000 more than the median earnings of the overall population (https://www.bls.gov/news.release/wkyeng.t01.htm https://www.bls.gov/news.release/wkyeng.t01.htm). There will be college grads struggling and non grads thriving, but on average a person just out of college is doing at least as well as the general population income wise and can expect their incomes to rise with time.
  - simoncion 2y ago
    > ...average new grad salary... > That’s ~$7000 more than the median earnings... You shouldn't be comparing an average to a median. You should be using either the average earnings, or the median new grad salary.
- 0xDEAFBEAD 2y ago
  Perhaps you should sit down with your friend and see if she can budget her expenses better?
  - seadan83 2y ago
    Yeah, not the issue. The issue is she has no extra money. This person is both frugal and broke.

by bpt3 2y ago

vkou 2y ago

Then why did the median household just decide an election largely based on economic anxiety? Is it because all the fear mongering about $5 eggs (They are $3 at my grocery, btw) was overblown?

cuttothechase 2y ago
I guess its relative to what the voters experienced or assumed they experienced before the 4 years vs what they were experiencing in the current election cycle. So if you are used to $3 eggs then a $5 egg would be potentially anxiety inducing. It wouldnt matter if the actual cost of eggs is $1 as the fair price in other countries.
- seanmcdirmid 2y ago
  I went through this in Switzerland until I discovered that imported eggs from France were a lot cheaper than domestic eggs.
bpt3 2y ago
> Then why did the median household just decide an election largely based on economic anxiety? Because the median voter is largely uninformed and irrational. > Is it because all the fear mongering about $5 eggs (They are $3 at my grocery, btw) was overblown? It is overblown in that most Americans can comfortably afford essentials and more compared to their peers and most of history. That doesn't mean they aren't any less annoyed about the current economy, which is what drives votes.
- account42 2y ago
  > Because the median voter is largely uninformed and irrational. Is this only true when they make decisions you don't agree with or also when they elect politicians you like?
  - bpt3 2y ago
    The median human is largely uninformed and irrational, so it's universally true regardless of a specific election outcome.
TuringNYC 2y ago
Because many of the folks here are probably high-earning engineers w/o grounding to the everyday experience. I grew up poor and have many friends who barely scrape by. My friends' anecdotal experience is no different than the anecdotal experience posted by GP about "BMWs" -- BMWs arent that common in real america.
- eigen 2y ago
  > BMWs arent that common in real america. can you clarify where "real america" is? are places like Spartanburg, SC or Tuscaloosa, AL "real america" because you can commonly find BMWs and Mercedes in these areas.
  - Shog9 2y ago
    BMWs aren't that common anywhere in the US - if they were, they'd stop being a status symbol. That said, they're also not uncommon - a quick look at registration data suggests ~8% of cars "on the road" are BMWs, though of course just because a car legally could be on the road doesn't mean it's being driven with any regularity (I had a co-worker years back whose pastime was buying old BMWs and fixing them up; apparently they could be had relatively inexpensively at the time, as servicing was pricey). Which is why all this pedantry misses the point: there's nothing terribly special about BMW; total cost of ownership is probably higher than domestic brands, but you could just as well pad out your ordinary expenses with a Ford or GM payment; a new Suburban or nicer pickup can soak up just as much excess cash as that X3. Then again, Real Americans drive increasingly old used cars.
    - seanmcdirmid 2y ago
      They explicitly don’t import or make entry level BMW and Mercedes in the American market to keep it a status symbol, but you’ll see lots of 1 and 2 series BMWs in Europe and even Asia. In the USA, 3 series is entry level.
      - dcrazy 2y ago
        I see tons of X1s, A classes, and GLAs in the Bay Area. I think the main reason certain models don’t get imported is because of size preferences. The Yaris (aka the Mazda 2) is no longer sold here but the Mazda 3 still sells. Relatedly, MB didn’t import the EQC into the US. Yet the GLC is the best-selling Mercedes in America. I just learned that they cancelled the EQC due to disappointing sales and will be introducing an electric GLC to the US.
lazide 2y ago
People know they are anxious, afraid, and confused. It’s easy to point fingers at something (anything, really) and have it stick when the actual cause - including bad health habits, unmet social needs, a constant barrage of BS on the media, and no meaningful plan or hope to actually resolve any of this - seems unapproachable/unresolvable.
fsckboy 2y ago
>Then why did the median household just decide an election largely based on economic anxiety? anxiety because their standard of living went down from before the high inflation from the economic so-called stimulus, and election because they trust Trump to grow the economy by removing obstacles to growth. The US economy is more dynamic than the European economy because of less regulation and bureaucracy. As one example, companies are more willing to hire workers for a speculative new project if they don't have to pay extensive wages to lay people off if the project fails. American workers are used to it and are willing to take good jobs when they are offered, and it just makes the economy go faster, "ahead of its rivals".
FireBeyond 2y ago
The same electorate who caused one of the most common searches on election day to be "Did Biden drop out?"? That informed electorate?
prmoustache 2y ago
>Then why did the median household just decide an election largely based on economic anxiety? Mosty because of marketing and social medias. When you are targeted 24h/d by ads on what shit you should buy or subscribe to and you feel you couldn't afford 10% of it while your social medias feed seems to show a lot of people enjoying them, you feel like cost of living is way too high.
refurb 2y ago
It’s actually relatively simple. Because when inflation got under control, prices didn’t go down. They just stopped going up so fast. We’re at the tail end of the most significant period of inflation in the US since the 1970’s. While incomes are growing slowly and unemployment is low, the pain of inflation is still being felt. Until real incomes grow significantly, people are going to feel worse off than before the period of inflation.

harimau777 2y ago

The idea that I get talking to people from other developed countries is that they don't have near the difference in quality of life that America does. College grads have desired locations because life in, for example, the deep South is pretty grim.

deepsun 2y ago
It's only grim in comparison. I remember the story of a remote mexican tribe, that lived poorly, but happily as they didn't know they are poor. Once they got connected to civilization, they saw that others have such a nice things like sneaker shoes, and their lives changed, everyone agreed it made them unhappy. I've traveled the world a lot, including the US South. They are VERY rich out there, but think they are poor, that's it.
- bobthepanda 2y ago
  one important distinction in the US is that we have a requirement to get insurance for nearly everything (car, house, etc.) and these are some of the fastest ballooning costs; and homeowner insurance in the US is actually not separately included in CPI. https://archive.ph/cvorJ https://archive.ph/cvorJ
0xDEAFBEAD 2y ago
The US is a large, diverse population across a large land area. Major variation is to be expected. But there is also that famous stat that income in Mississippi is on par with Britain or France. https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2016/03/07/still-true-even-mississippi-is-richer-than-britain/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2016/03/07/still-tr... https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/its-great-to-live-in-the-american-economy/ https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/its-great-to-live-in-t... I agree with deepsun that the comparison factor is huge here: https://www.optimallyirrational.com/p/the-aim-of-maximising-happiness-is https://www.optimallyirrational.com/p/the-aim-of-maximising-...

seadan83 2y ago

My sampling bias is of college grads living dirt poor, had been, have been, will be. Recent friend was praying her car would not break down because she could hardly afford gas, let alone to do any kind of repairs. Sampling bias is a bitch. Do you have numbers otherwise that it is really just lifestyle outpacing income for college grads? Perhaps the outcomes of college grads are skewed, devil is in the details. The experience of college grads is pretty certainly washed away when looking at medians of much larger populations.

topkai22 2y ago
The National Association of Colleges and Employers survey puts the average new grad salary at $68,000/year (https://www.naceweb.org/docs/default-source/default-document-library/2024/publication/executive-summary/2024-nace-winter-salary-survey-executive-summary.pdf?Status=Master&sfvrsn=b8ff91c4_3 https://www.naceweb.org/docs/default-source/default-document...) That’s ~$7000 more than the median earnings of the overall population (https://www.bls.gov/news.release/wkyeng.t01.htm https://www.bls.gov/news.release/wkyeng.t01.htm). There will be college grads struggling and non grads thriving, but on average a person just out of college is doing at least as well as the general population income wise and can expect their incomes to rise with time.
- simoncion 2y ago
  > ...average new grad salary... > That’s ~$7000 more than the median earnings... You shouldn't be comparing an average to a median. You should be using either the average earnings, or the median new grad salary.
0xDEAFBEAD 2y ago
Perhaps you should sit down with your friend and see if she can budget her expenses better?
- seadan83 2y ago
  Yeah, not the issue. The issue is she has no extra money. This person is both frugal and broke.