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It’s being phased out quite aggressively there. Turned out they had such a bad reputation for tech debt thru couldn’t hire people despite paying +50% median Ams
by dep_b 2y ago
It’s being phased out quite aggressively there. Turned out they had such a bad reputation for tech debt thru couldn’t hire people despite paying +50% median Amsterdam developer salaries.
- that_guy_iain 2y agoI think a lot of companies are kind of realising the tech stack they use has a bigger impact on hiring than salaries. I believe banks are encountering this issue with no one wanting to do C++ anymore.
- whiplash451 2y agoYou'd find a lot of talented C++ engineers for the right mission and culture. The problem you describe has little to do with C++ and a lot to do with banking.
- Onavo 2y agoThe banks just don't pay enough. Quant finance firms in Chicago and wall street don't have this problem.
- that_guy_iain 2y agoI am not sure you understand the problem. Your first sentence hints that you know that there needs to be other things than tech stack and salary to find talented C++ programmers. But the second sentence pretends like you didn't write the first sentence. I said tech stack affects hiring more than salary. I didn't say there is a lack of C++ programmers. I was very explicit about my statement.
- pjmlp 2y agoHave done consulting with banks as customers, I definitly wouldn't want to work for one, regardless of the tech stack, and money being offered. This is what OP was hinting at.
- that_guy_iain 2y agoOP was ignoring the point and basically implied the reason banks have issues hiring these days is because they're banks. While in the past they didn't have these issues. Why? Because tech stack matters for a lot of people.
- pjmlp 2y agoThey always had these issues, I barely know anyone that freely replied to job interviews for a bank, given the work environment, as I am approaching 50y, have already seen quite a lot in consulting projects.
- that_guy_iain 2y agoThey had the same problems everyone had. There are more jobs than programmers to do the jobs. But now they've got the added problem of Rust, Go, etc taking over.
- krageon 2y agoYou weren't all that explicit, and GP responded to your comment as written. There really is no call for being this rude just because you think you were misunderstood.
- that_guy_iain 2y ago1. I explicitly wrote that people care more about tech stack than salary. Then gave an example where an industry has that problem. The response was about if you have other attributes you can find someone. Fundamentally ignoring the point. 2. Rude? The person who replied did what was said. The first sentence implied that my point was indeed correct. Then the second sentence just ignored what the first sentence implied and ignored the point. They seemed to think the problem is a long-standing problem that banks have. Instead of a problem that has been growing for years because the supply of people who know the tech stack is decreasing. It's fair to point out to people you don't think they understand the problem. 3. Misunderstood? I believe they implied in their first sentence I was correct and that they understood the point. They just didn't like the point.
- psunavy03 2y agoThe next 15-20 years are going to be entertaining as the world finally runs out of COBOL developers.
- Philadelphia 2y agoIt’s not really that hard to make new ones.
- dpkirchner 2y agoIt'd probably require expensive on-the-job training, which is well out of fashion. Sure, folks could teach themselves COBOL in the hopes they might maybe get hired by a bank, but they'd be better off spending that time learning a language with broader industry interest.
- aembleton 2y agoAI I will probably help in transitioning developers from other languages into understanding cobol code bases.
- philistine 2y agoI guess with C++ you either work for a bank or you do video games. Guess which one people prefer?
- IshKebab 2y agoDefinitely banks! Much better pay (at least in investment banks) and way less stressful.
- pjmlp 2y agoBetter pay sure, less stressful, not the ones I had as customers. And you better like to come in a proper suit to work, and talk to your work colleges in formal language, regardless of how many years you happen to have worked together.
- that_guy_iain 2y agoOr you move over to Go or Rust. Just like Perl programmers moved over to PHP, Python, and Ruby. It seems crazy that in a community like this, people seem to ignore the fact that people move on to the shiny new tech. And those aren't even that new anymore. It feels like same as how Perl programmers acted in 15 years ago when PHP and Python were eating up all the new projects.
- 1kaizen 2y agoBanks of course. Game dev dont pay.
- hashtag-til 2y agoI interviewed with them once. The worst ever interview with incapable rude interviewers, who didn't even know the answer to their questions. They came p with some bizarre offer which I'm glad I declined.
- dep_b 2y agoHaha well I use to interview people while working there, I hope it wasn't for a mobile position?
- hashtag-til 2y agoNo, just web stuff, not mobile. That’s sort of 2015 timeline, ancient history now :)
- oefrha 2y agoI knew someone whose company put out $$$ senior job ads when they had a problem they couldn’t solve in house, then picked interviewees’ brains without hiring them.
- mdaniel 2y agoI would gladly take that experience over "yet another minesweeper something" or its more evil friend "reimplement some esoteric algorithm no one uses in their day job". I mean, sure, fake jobs are always evil but if you're gonna have a fake job at least make it produce something for humanity The back side of that coin is: how catastrophically dumb must they be to have a problem that a stranger can solve on a whiteboard in an hour but your whole organization can't in a sprint?
- krageon 2y agoThey don't pay very well. I can't imagine the median in amsterdam is very good if that really was 50% higher