14 ms·

Amazon to invest another $4B in Anthropic

666 points by swyx 2y ago

gryt67 2y ago
[dead]
aliasxneo 2y ago
> Amazon Web Services will also become Anthropic’s “primary cloud and training partner,” according to a blog post. From now on, Anthropic will use AWS Trainium and Inferentia chips to train and deploy its largest AI models. I suspect that's worth more than $4B in the long term? I'm not familiar with the costs, though.
- devjab 2y ago
  I’ve been impressed with the AI assisted tooling for the various monitoring systems in Azure at least. Of course this is mainly because those tools are so ridiculously hard to use that I basically can’t for a lot of things. The AI does it impressively well though. I’d assume there is a big benefit to having AI assisted resource generation for cloud vendors. Our developers often have to mess around with things that we really, really, shouldn’t in Azure because operations lacks the resources and knowledge. Technically we’ve outsourced it, but most requests take 3 months and get done wrong… if an AI could generate our network settings from a global policy that would be excellent. Hell if it could handle all our resource generation they would be so much useless time wasted because our organisation views “IT” as HRs uncharming cost center cousin.
- senderista 2y ago
  Inferentia...Bollocks Sorry.
liquidise 2y ago
Can someone with familiarity in rounds close to this size speak to their terms? For instance: i imagine a significant part of this will be “paid” as AWS credits and is not going to be reflected as a balance in a bank account transfer.
- uptownfunk 2y ago
  Yes, that is the case. It is largely 4B in capex investment, I’d imagine 10% or less is cash. One would think nvidia could get much better terms investing its gpu (assuming they can get it into a working cluster). Instead it’s nvidia gets cash for gpu hardware, that hardware gets put into a data center and AWS invests their hardware as credits for equity instead of cash. And because AWS has already built out their data center infra they can get a better deal than nvidia making the play because nvidia has to rebuild an entire data center infra from scratch (in addition to designing gpu etc). Now if AWS or gcp can crack gpu compute better than nvidia for training and hosting, then they can basically cut out nvidia and so essentially they get gpu at cost (vs whatever markup they pay to nvidia). Because essentially whatever return AWS will make from Anthropic will be modulated by the premiums paid to nvidia to invest and also the cost of operating a data center for Anthropic. But thankfully all of that gets mediated on paper because valuation is more speculative than the returns on nvidia hardware (which will be known to the cent by AWS given its some math of hourly rate and utilization which they have a good idea of)
maxclark 2y ago
Is this really a $4B investment, or credits on AWS? AWS margins are close to 40%, so the real cost of this "investment" would be way less than the press release.
- swyx 2y ago
  https://techcrunch.com/2024/11/22/anthropic-raises-an-additional-4b-from-amazon-makes-aws-its-primary-cloud-partner/?guccounter=1 https://techcrunch.com/2024/11/22/anthropic-raises-an-additi... > "This new CASH infusion brings Amazon’s total investment in Anthropic to $8 billion while maintaining the tech giant’s position as a minority investor, Anthropic said."
  - mistrial9 2y ago
    ok but how much cash, really.. looks ambiguous. ps- plenty of people turning a blind eye towards rampant valuation inflation and "big words" statements on deals. Where is the grounding on the same dollars that are used at a grocery store? The whole thing is fodder for instability in a big way IMHO
    - Etheryte 2y ago
      I don't really see any ambiguity? If the reporting is accurate, the whole $4B is cash.
  - mef 2y ago
    whether cash or credit, it's all going right back to AWS
    - hehehheh 2y ago
      This is great for creative accounting. AWS now has 4bn in equity and 4bn in additional sales.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- 2y ago
mikeocool 2y ago
Curious if anyone knows the logistics of these cloud provider/AI company deals. In this case, it seems like the terms of the deal mean that Anthropic ends up spending most of the investment on AWS to pay for training. Does anthropic basically get at cost pricing on AWS? If Amazon has any margin on their pricing, it seems like this $4B investment ends up costing them a lot less, and this is a nice way to turn a cap ex investment into AWS revenue.
- aiinnyc 2y ago
  One hand washes the other.
- tyre 2y ago
  Yes exactly. This was the brilliance of the original MSFT investment into OpenAI. It was an investment in Azure scaling its AI training infra, but roundabout through a massive customer (exactly what you’d want as a design partner) and getting equity. I’m sure Anthropic negotiated a great deal on their largest cost center, while Amazon gets a huge customer to build out their system with.
  - whatshisface 2y ago
    This explanation makes no sense, I could be AWS' biggest customer if they wanted to pay me for it. Something a little closer could be that the big tech companies wanted to acquire outside LLMs, not quite realizing that spending $1B on training only puts you $1B ahead.
    - raverbashing 2y ago
      Yes but Amazon is not making extra money with you being their biggest customer With Anthropic yes
      - whatshisface 2y ago
        Anthropic is getting $4B in investment in a year where their revenue was about $850M. Even if Amazon had bought them outright for that much, they would not be ahead. The fact that everybody keeps repeating the claim that Amazon is "making money" makes this appear like some kind of scam.
ipaddr 2y ago
I' m not sure how they make it back. The guardrails in place are extremely strict. The only people who seem to use it are a subset of developers who are unhappy with OpenAI. With Bard popping up free everywhere taking away much of the general user crowd and OpenAI offering the mini model always free and limited image generation / expensive model. Then you have to do it yourself crowd with llama. What is their target market? Governments? Amazon companies?There free their offers 10 queries and half of them need to be used to get around filters I don't see this positioned well for general customers.
- JamesBarney 2y ago
  Claude api use is already as high as openai. I believe that market will grow far more over time than chat as AI gets embedded in more of the applications we already use.
- reubenmorais 2y ago
  With Claude on Bedrock I can use LLMs in production without sending customer data to the US. And if you're already on AWS it's super easy to onboard wrt. auth and billing and compliance.
  - maeil 2y ago
    If you're using Bedrock you're still subject to the CLOUD act/FISA meaning the whole angle of "not sending customer data to the US" isn't worth very much.
    - reubenmorais 2y ago
      It's worth enough to customers to make a best effort.
- loandbehold 2y ago
  Claude is the best model for programming. New generation of code tools like Cursor all use Claude as the main model.
swyx 2y ago
related coverage - https://www.anthropic.com/news/anthropic-amazon-trainium https://www.anthropic.com/news/anthropic-amazon-trainium - https://www.aboutamazon.com/news/aws/amazon-invests-additional-4-billion-anthropic-ai https://www.aboutamazon.com/news/aws/amazon-invests-addition... - https://techcrunch.com/2024/11/22/anthropic-raises-an-additional-4b-from-amazon-makes-aws-its-primary-cloud-partner/ https://techcrunch.com/2024/11/22/anthropic-raises-an-additi...
- OceanBreeze77 2y ago
  What's the difference between trainium and the AWS bedrock offering?
  - newfocogi 2y ago
    AWS Trainium is a machine learning chip designed by AWS to accelerate training deep learning models. AWS Bedrock is a fully managed service that allows developers to build and scale generative AI applications using foundation models from various providers. Trainium == Silicon (looks like Anthropic has agreed to use it) Bedrock == AWS Service for LLMs behind APIs (you can use Anthropic models through AWS here)
jatins 2y ago
Anthropic gets a lot of it's business via AWS Bedrock so it's fair to say that Amazon probably has reasonable insight into how the Claude usage is growing that makes them confident in this investment
- swyx 2y ago
  > gets a lot of it's business via AWS Bedrock can you quantify? any numbers, even guesstimates?
  - mediaman 2y ago
    One source [1] puts it at 60-75% of revenue as third-party API, most of which is AWS. [1]https://www.tanayj.com/p/openai-and-anthropic-revenue-breakdown https://www.tanayj.com/p/openai-and-anthropic-revenue-breakd...
- paxys 2y ago
  They are also confident in the investment because they know that all the money is going to come right back to them in the short term (via AWS spending) whether or not Anthropic actually survives in the long term.
  - VirusNewbie 2y ago
    But anthropic is currently on GCP.
    - paxys 2y ago
      Nope they have supported AWS deployments for a long time, and now even more of the spend will be on AWS. > Anthropic has raised an additional $4 billion from Amazon, and has agreed to train its flagship generative AI models primarily on Amazon Web Services (AWS), Amazon’s cloud computing division.
      - VirusNewbie 2y ago
danvoell 2y ago
Great move. The value to easily deploying content, code, anything digital to AWS is immense.
fariszr 2y ago
This makes sense in the grand scheme of things. Anthropic used to be in the Google camp, but DeepMind seems to have picked up speed lately, with new “Experimental” Gemini Models beating everyone, while AWS doesn't have anything on the cutting edge of AI. Hopefully this helps Anthropic to fix their abysmal rate limits.
- n2d4 2y ago
  > Anthropic used to be in the Google camp I don't think Anthropic took any allegiances here. Amazon already invested $4B last year (Google invested $2B).
  - fariszr 2y ago
    AFAIK they used Gcloud to run their models.
blibble 2y ago
what does this say about their internal teams working on the same thing?
uneekname 2y ago
As someone who doesn't really follow the LLM space closely, I have been consistently turning to Anthropic when I want to use an LLM (usually to work through coding problems) Beside Sonnet impressing me, I like Anthropic because there's less of an "icky" factor compared to OpenAI or even Google. I don't know how much better Anthropic actually is, but I don't think I'm the only one who chooses based on my perception of the company's values and social responsibility.
- noirbot 2y ago
  Yea, even if they're practically as bad, there's value in not having someone like Altman who's out there saying things about how many jobs he's excited to make obsolete and how much of the creative work of the world is worthless.
  - MichaelZuo 2y ago
    I don’t think he ever said or even implied any percentage of ‘creative work of the world is worthless’? A lot less valuable then what artists may have desired or aspired to at the time of creation, sure, but definitely with some value.
    - staticman2 2y ago
      Doesn't he basically troll people on Twitter constantly?
    - kdpsooo 2y ago
      [dead]
    - noirbot 2y ago
      I mean, he's certainly acting as if he's entitled to train on all of it for free as long as it's not made by a big enough company that may be able to stop/sue him. And then feels entitled to complain about artists tainting the training data with tools. He has a very "wealth makes right" approach to the value of creative work.
  - 2y ago
peppertree 2y ago
Anthropic should double down on the strategy of being the better code generator. No I don't need an AI agent to call the restaurant for me. Win the developers over and the rest will follow.
- ianmcgowan 2y ago
  I mean, look at Linux and Firefox!
  - ripped_britches 2y ago
    Legendary comment, bravo
  - peppertree 2y ago
    Pretty sure most frontend developers use Chrome since it has better dev tools. And yes everyone uses Linux most just don't know it.
  - gopalv 2y ago
    > look at Linux and Firefox! AI models are more like a programming language or CPU architecture. OpenAI is Intel and Anthropic is AMD.
- rtsil 2y ago
  > Win the developers over and the rest will follow. Will they really? Anecdotal evidence, but nobody I know in real life knows about Claude (other than it's an ordinary first name). And they all use or at least know about ChatGPT. None of them are software engineers of course. But the corporate deciders aren't software engineers either.
  - peppertree 2y ago
    Consumers don't have to consciously choose Claude, just like most people don't know about Linux. But if they use an Android phone or ever use any web services they are using Linux.
  - 2y ago
seydor 2y ago
Gotta protect those H100s from rusting
pknerd 2y ago
Rival? They kick you out after a few messages and ask you to come back later. Gpt doesn't do that
- Etheryte 2y ago
  Anecdotal experience, but as far as I've played around with them, Claude's models have given me a better impression. I would much rather have great responses with lower availability than mediocre responses available all the time.
- maleldil 2y ago
  Are you a paying customer? I exclusively use their best model and while I get warnings (stuff about longer chats leading to more limit usage), I've never been kicked out. The only thing is that they've recently started defaulting to Concise to cut costs, which is fine with me.
  - cruffle_duffle 2y ago
    Concise mode is honestly better anyway. I’d prefer it always be in that mode. But that being said I bump into hard limits far more often than I do with ChatGPT. Even if I keep chats short like it constantly suggests, eventually it cuts me off.
    - Sebguer 2y ago
      It's a selectable style at any time in Claude.ai, FYI!
  - pknerd 2y ago
    I used GPT as a free customer and now a paid one. I was never asked to leave after a few messages (20ish) by GPT.
- Detrytus 2y ago
  I guess this is exactly the problem that this investment would solve.
cainxinth 2y ago
They certainly need the money. The Pro service has been running in limited mode all week due to being over capacity. It defaults to “concise” mode during high capacity but Pro users can select to put it back into “Full Response.” But I can tell the quality drops even when you do that, and it fails and brings up error messages more commonly. They don’t have enough compute to go around.
- sbuttgereit 2y ago
  Hmmm... I wonder if this is why some of the results I've gotten over the past few days have been pretty bad. It's easy to dismiss poor results on LLM quality variance from prompt to prompt vs. something like this where the quality is actively degraded without notification. I can't say this is in fact what I'm experience, but it was noticeable enough I'm going to check.
  - 55555 2y ago
    Same experience here.
  - jmathai 2y ago
    Never occurred to me that the response changes based on load. I’ve definitely noticed it seems smarter at times. Makes evaluating results nearly impossible.
    - kridsdale1 2y ago
      My human responses degrade when I’m heavily loaded and low on resources, too.
      - TeMPOraL 2y ago
        Unrelated. Inference doesn't run in sync with the wall clock; it takes whatever it takes. The issue is more like telling a room of support workers they are free to half-ass the work if there's too many calls, so they don't reject any until even half-assing doesn't lighten the load enough.
lasermike026 2y ago
Does anyone know how they are going to make money and turn a profit one day?
- thornewolf 2y ago
  LLM inference is getting cheaper year over year. It often loses money now, it may eventually stop losing money when it gets cheap enough to run. - But surely the race to the bottom will continue? Maybe, but they do offer a consumer subscription that can diverge from actual serving costs. /speculation
  - lasermike026 2y ago
    I'm working with models and the costs are ridiculous. $7000 card and 800 watts later for my small projects and I can't imagine how they can make money in the next 5 to 10 years. I need to do more research on hardware approaching that reduces costs and power consumption. I just started experimenting with llama.cpp and I'm mildly impressed.
  - Palmik 2y ago
    Looking at API providers like Together that host open source models like Llama 70b and running these models in production myself, they have healthy margins (and their inference stack is much better optimized).
- sigmar 2y ago
  relatedly: is claude3.5-haiku being delivered above their cost, after they quadrupled the price? Though it wouldn't ensure profitability since they're spending so much on training. I'm sure with inference-use growing, they're hoping that eventually total_expenses(inference) grows to be much much larger than total_expenses(training)
- km144 2y ago
  Same as the big tech companies, probably make all of their products worse in service to advertising. AI-generated advertising prompted by personal data could be extremely good at getting people to buy things if tuned appropriately.
yieldcrv 2y ago
its a better experience, prints out token responses faster, and doesn't randomly 'disconnect' or whatever ChatGPT does I hope they're also cooking up some cool features and can handle capacity
KaoruAoiShiho 2y ago
I know that if Nvidia did this lots of people on twitter would be screaming about fraud and self-dealing.
bfrog 2y ago
McAfee like investing
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
gavi 2y ago
I love Claude 3.5 sonnet and their UI is top notch especially for coding, recently though they have been facing capacity issues especially during weekdays correlating with working hours. Have tried Qwen2.5 coder 32B and it's very good and close to Claude 3.5 in my coding cases.
- anovick 2y ago
  There's one problem with Claude's chat box where ``` opens an intrusive code block box that's hard to close/skip. But I also agree that Claude 3.5 Sonnet is giving very good results. Not only for coding, and also for languages other than English.
  - KTibow 2y ago
    You can exit with the down arrow
    - anovick 2y ago
      Thanks!
  - johnisgood 2y ago
    This is what annoys me a lot, too. I mean the fact that I cannot have paste retain the formatting (```, `, etc.). Same with the UI retaining my prompt, but not the formatting, so if you do some formatting and reload, you will lose that formatting.
demaga 2y ago
I think Claude is actually superior to ChatGPT and needs more recognition. So good news, I guess
- r0fl 2y ago
  I agree it’s better for coding but it hits limits or seems very slow , even on paid subscription, a lot more often than ChatGPT
- internet101010 2y ago
  Yep. I start most technical prompts with 4o and Claude side-by-side in LibreChat and more often than not end up moving forward with Claude.
uptownfunk 2y ago
AWS is just playing copycat with msft. They rarely have any good original ideas. Other than IaaS and online retail.
- pdabbadabba 2y ago
  > They rarely have any good original ideas. Other than IaaS and online retail. Lol. Is that all?? If you have to have only two good original ideas, you could do a lot worse.
- reducesuffering 2y ago
  And you think MSFT isn't 95% copycat? Teams is Slack clone. Azure is AWS clone. SurfaceBook (remember those?) Macbook clone. Edge is Chrome clone. Bing is Google clone. Even VSCode was an Atom/Electron fork and Windows Subsystem for Linux...
  - mkl 2y ago
    Surface Books are nothing like Macbooks - Macbooks don't have a touch screen, pen support, or reversible screen tablet mode, and the whole structure is completely different. Surface Pro, Surface Book, and Surface Laptop Studio are some of the most original laptop form factors I've seen.
    - rwalle 2y ago
      Exactly. Too bad Microsoft only cares about enterprise customers and never made the Surface line attractive to regular consumers. They could have been very interesting and competitive alternatives to MacBooks.
- deanCommie 2y ago
  What's Microsoft's Bedrock?
steveBK123 2y ago
Some of these investments sound big in absolute terms.. However not that big considering the scale of the investor AND that many of these investors are also vendors. MSFT/AMZN/NVDA investing in AI firms that then use their clouds/chips/whatever is an interesting circular investment.
- dgfitz 2y ago
  Four thousand million dollars. That’s a lot of money.
  - steveBK123 2y ago
    That's 2 days of Amazon revenue, invested in a company to then send the investment back as more revenue to Amazon in the form of AWS usage.
handohando 2y ago
[dead]
cryptozeus 2y ago
They certainly need the money, not sure how many users will pay for monthly subscription.
dangoodmanUT 2y ago
> Amazon does not have a seat on Anthropic’s board. Insane
ramesh31 2y ago
Anthropic will be the winner here, zero doubts in my mind. They have leapfrogged head and shoulders above OpenAI over the last year. Who'd have thought a business predicated entirely on keeping the ~1000 people on earth qualified to work on this stuff happy would go downhill once they failed at that.
crowcroft 2y ago
So we have Microsoft -> OpenAI (& Inflection AI) Google -> Gemini (and a bit of Anthropic) Amazon -> Anthropic Meta -> Llama Is big tech good for the startup ecosystem, or are they monopolies eating everything (or both?). To be fair to Google and Meta they came up with a lot of the stuff in the first place, and aren't just buying the competition.
- gabes 2y ago
  Meta doesn’t buy competition?
  - airstrike 2y ago
    Facebook / Instagram?
  - oefnak 2y ago
    WhatsApp
- sangnoir 2y ago
  There wouldn't be an LLM startup ecosystem without big tech. Notable contributions: Nvidia for, well, (gestures at everything), Google for discovering (inventing?) transformers, being early advocates of ML, authoring tensorflow, Meta for Torch and open sourcing Llama, Microsoft for investing billions in OpenAI early on and keeping the hype alive. The last one is a reach, I'm sure Microsoft Research did some cool things I'm unaware of.
  - crowcroft 2y ago
    You might be right, we don’t know how an alternative reality would have played out though to say if this is the only way (and fastest) way we could have got here.
andai 2y ago
I've been playing with Alibaba's Qwen 2.5 model and I've had it claim to be Claude. (Though it usually claims to be Llama, and it seems to think it's a literal llama, i.e. it identifies as an animal, "among other things".)
- sunaookami 2y ago
  Claude also sometimes claims/claimed that it is ChatGPT or a model by OpenAI. Same with LLaMa. It's just polluated training data.
devoutsalsa 2y ago
If they are over capacity, does that mean they have significant revenue?
johnisgood 2y ago
I much prefer Claude over ChatGPT, based on my experience using both extensively. Claude understands me significantly better and seems to "know" my intentions with much greater ease. For example, when I request the full file, it provides it without any issues or unnecessary reiterations (ChatGPT fails after me repeatedly instructing it to), often confirming my request with a brief summary beforehand, but nothing more. Additionally, Claude frequently asks clarifying questions to better understand my goals, something I have noticed ChatGPT never did. I have found it quite amazing that it does that. So... as long as this money helps them improve their LLM even more, I am all up for it. My main issue is quickly being rate-limited in relatively long chats, making me wait 4 hours despite having a subscription for Pro. Recently I have noticed some other related issues, too. More money could help with these issues, too. To the developers: keep up the excellent work and may you continue striving for improvement. I feel like ChatGPT is worse now than it was half a year ago, I hope this will not happen to Claude.
- guptadagger 2y ago
  Speaking of ChatGPT getting worse over time, it would be interesting to see ChatGPT be benchmarked continuously to see how it performs over time (and the results published somewhere publically). Even local variations would be interesting
  - arnaudsm 2y ago
    https://livebench.ai/ https://livebench.ai/ does that, the latest gpt4o underperforms previous versions significantly
- TimTheTinker 2y ago
  Claude also more readily corrects me or answers "no" to a question (when the answer should be "no").
  - hirvi74 2y ago
    So, I have a custom prompt I use with GPT that I found here a year or so ago. One of the custom prompt instructions was something along the lines of being more direct when it does not know something. Since then, I have not had that problem, and have even managed to get just "no" or "I don't know" as an answer.
submeta 2y ago
I had to switch from Pro to Teams plan and pay 150 USD for 5 accounts because the Pro plan has gotten unusable. It will allow me to ask a dozen or so questions and then will block me for hours because of „high capacity.“ I don’t need five accounts, one for 40 USD would be totally fine if it would allow me to work uninterrupted for a couple of hours. All in all Claude is magic. It feels like having ten assistants at my fingertip. And for that even 100 USD is worth paying.
- modriano 2y ago
  I just start new chats whenever the chat gets long (in terms of number of tokens). It's kind of a pain to have to form a prompt that encapsulates enough context, but it has prevented me from hitting the Pro limit. Also, I include more questions and detail in each prompt. Why does that work? Claude includes the entire chat with each new prompt you submit [0], and the limit is based on the number of tokens you've submitted. After not too many prompts, there can be 10k+ tokens in the chat (which are all submitted in each new prompt, quickly advancing towards the limit). (I also have a chatGPT sub and I use that for many questions, especially now that it includes web search capabilities) [0] https://support.anthropic.com/en/articles/8324991-about-claude-pro-usage https://support.anthropic.com/en/articles/8324991-about-clau...
  - greenie_beans 2y ago
    > It's kind of a pain to have to form a prompt that encapsulates enough context, but it has prevented me from hitting the Pro limit. Also, I include more questions and detail in each prompt. i get it to provide a prompt to start the new chat. i sometimes wish there was a button for it bc it's such a big part of my workflow
    - greenie_beans 2y ago
      also, do any data engineers know how context works on the backend? seems like you could get an llm to summarize a long context and that would shorten it? also seems like i don't know what i'm talking about. could the manual ux that i've come up happen behind the scenes?
mrcwinn 2y ago
The status pages of OpenAI and Anthropic are in stark contrast and that mirrors my experience. Love Anthropic for code and its Projects feature, but OpenAI is still way ahead on voice and reliability.
- sebastiennight 2y ago
  Open AI status page: https://status.openai.com/ https://status.openai.com/ Anthropic status page: https://status.anthropic.com/ https://status.anthropic.com/ (Yes, there is a rather stark difference in number of recent incidents.)
Simon_ORourke 2y ago
Will Amazon leadership require it's new Gen AI to physically move itself to an office to perform valid work?
- GuB-42 2y ago
  "Amazon Web Services will also become Anthropic’s “primary cloud and training partner,” according to a blog post." So yes, if we consider Amazon datacenters to be the equivalent of an office for an AI.
black_13 2y ago
[dead]
desktopninja 2y ago
Mmm. Amazon lays off thousands of workers but drops 4Bil$ into another company. Mmm.
- bdangubic 2y ago
  cut the fat, use the money to get the steak :)
gardenhedge 2y ago
Claude pro is a joke. Limited messaging and token lengths
UltraSane 2y ago
Claude Sonnet 3.5 is simply amazing. No matter how much I used it I continue to be amazed at what it can produce. I recently asked it what the flow of data is when two vNICs on the same host send data to each other and it produced a very detailed answer complete with a really nice diagram. I then asked what langue the diagram uses and it said Mermaid. So I then asked it to produce some example L1,2,3 diagrams for computer networks and it did just that. So it then asked it to produce Python code using PyATS to run show commands on Cisco switches and routers and use the data to produce Mermaid network diagrams for layers 1,2, and 3 and it just spit out working Python code. This is a relatively obscure task with a specific library no one outside of Networking knows about integrating with a diagram generator. And it fully understands the difference in network layers. Just astonishing. And now it can write and run Javascript apps. The only feature I really want is for it to be able to run generated Python code to see if it has any errors and automatically fix them. If progress on LLMs doesn't stall they will be truly amazing in just 10 years. And probably consuming 5% of global electricity.
- k1musab1 2y ago
  VS Code has a plugin Cline, using your api key it will run Claude sonnet, can edit and create files in the workspace, and run commands in the terminal to check functionality, read errors, and correct them.
  - DirkH 2y ago
    This makes it sound to me like Cursor is a waste of money?
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
joshdavham 2y ago
I often hear people praise Claude as being better than chatGPT, but I’ve given both a shot and much prefer chatGPT. Is there something I’m missing here? I use chatGPT for a variety of things but mainly coding and I feel subjectively that chatGPT is still better for the job.
- owenpalmer 2y ago
  What languages do you use?
  - joshdavham 2y ago
    Mostly python and js, so the most popular ones. I should mention that I do use obscure modules and packages in each language where chatGPT starts to suck a little. I imagine this might be similar to how chat might work with Rust or Zig, etc. Why do you ask?
1317 2y ago
I tried out Claude once, I found it was alright but not much better than ChatGPT for what I was doing at that point Then I thought I'd try it again recently, I went onto the site and apparently I'm banned. I don't even remember what I did...
neets 2y ago
How much of that is converted back into AWS credits?
- Mistletoe 2y ago
  I'm imagining Gary Oldman in The Professional screaming "EVERY ONE".
yoyohello13 2y ago
Claude is absolutely incredible. And I don’t trust openAI or Microsoft so it’s nice to have an alternative.
- cauthon 2y ago
  Amazon famously more trustworthy
  - stingraycharles 2y ago
    Google also invested $2B into Anthrophic. Seems like both Google and Amazon are providing credits for their cloud, also as a hedge against Microsoft / OpenAI becoming too big.
  - yoyohello13 2y ago
    If I have to chose between Amazon and Microsoft I’ll chose the lesser evil. Microsoft owns the entire stack from OS to server to language to source control. Anything to weaken their hold is a win in my book.
    - esperent 2y ago
      > chose between Amazon and Microsoft... the lesser evil A hard question. If you focusing purely on tech, probably Microsoft. But overall evil in the world? With their union busting and abuse of workers, Amazon, I'd say.
- pkillarjun 2y ago
  I will start using Claude the day they stop asking me for my mobile number.
  - sourcecodeplz 2y ago
    I can cross the street and get a new FREE SIM with a number from the shop. all i have to do is put some money on it to activate it, like $1 ...
jessriedel 2y ago
Is there an implied valuation? Or not enough details released?
bg24 2y ago
AWS is achieving 2 objectives: 1/ Best-in-class LLM in Bedrock. This could be done w/o the partnership as well. 2/ Evolving Tranium and Inferential as worthy competitors for large scale training and inference. They have thousands of large-scale customers, and as the adoption grows, the investment will pay for itself.
ulfw 2y ago
How many employees will lose their lifelihood to pay for this again?
ddxv 2y ago
I must be missing it. How is anthropic worth so much when open source is closing in so fast? What value will anthropic have if competitors can be mostly free?
Elizabeth0147 2y ago
[dead]

666 points by swyx 2y ago

[dead]

> Amazon Web Services will also become Anthropic’s “primary cloud and training partner,” according to a blog post. From now on, Anthropic will use AWS Trainium and Inferentia chips to train and deploy its largest AI models. I suspect that's worth more than $4B in the long term? I'm not familiar with the costs, though.

devjab 2y ago
I’ve been impressed with the AI assisted tooling for the various monitoring systems in Azure at least. Of course this is mainly because those tools are so ridiculously hard to use that I basically can’t for a lot of things. The AI does it impressively well though. I’d assume there is a big benefit to having AI assisted resource generation for cloud vendors. Our developers often have to mess around with things that we really, really, shouldn’t in Azure because operations lacks the resources and knowledge. Technically we’ve outsourced it, but most requests take 3 months and get done wrong… if an AI could generate our network settings from a global policy that would be excellent. Hell if it could handle all our resource generation they would be so much useless time wasted because our organisation views “IT” as HRs uncharming cost center cousin.
senderista 2y ago
Inferentia...Bollocks Sorry.

liquidise 2y ago

Can someone with familiarity in rounds close to this size speak to their terms? For instance: i imagine a significant part of this will be “paid” as AWS credits and is not going to be reflected as a balance in a bank account transfer.

uptownfunk 2y ago
Yes, that is the case. It is largely 4B in capex investment, I’d imagine 10% or less is cash. One would think nvidia could get much better terms investing its gpu (assuming they can get it into a working cluster). Instead it’s nvidia gets cash for gpu hardware, that hardware gets put into a data center and AWS invests their hardware as credits for equity instead of cash. And because AWS has already built out their data center infra they can get a better deal than nvidia making the play because nvidia has to rebuild an entire data center infra from scratch (in addition to designing gpu etc). Now if AWS or gcp can crack gpu compute better than nvidia for training and hosting, then they can basically cut out nvidia and so essentially they get gpu at cost (vs whatever markup they pay to nvidia). Because essentially whatever return AWS will make from Anthropic will be modulated by the premiums paid to nvidia to invest and also the cost of operating a data center for Anthropic. But thankfully all of that gets mediated on paper because valuation is more speculative than the returns on nvidia hardware (which will be known to the cent by AWS given its some math of hourly rate and utilization which they have a good idea of)

maxclark 2y ago

Is this really a $4B investment, or credits on AWS? AWS margins are close to 40%, so the real cost of this "investment" would be way less than the press release.

swyx 2y ago
https://techcrunch.com/2024/11/22/anthropic-raises-an-additional-4b-from-amazon-makes-aws-its-primary-cloud-partner/?guccounter=1 https://techcrunch.com/2024/11/22/anthropic-raises-an-additi... > "This new CASH infusion brings Amazon’s total investment in Anthropic to $8 billion while maintaining the tech giant’s position as a minority investor, Anthropic said."
- mistrial9 2y ago
  ok but how much cash, really.. looks ambiguous. ps- plenty of people turning a blind eye towards rampant valuation inflation and "big words" statements on deals. Where is the grounding on the same dollars that are used at a grocery store? The whole thing is fodder for instability in a big way IMHO
  - Etheryte 2y ago
    I don't really see any ambiguity? If the reporting is accurate, the whole $4B is cash.
- mef 2y ago
  whether cash or credit, it's all going right back to AWS
  - hehehheh 2y ago
    This is great for creative accounting. AWS now has 4bn in equity and 4bn in additional sales.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
2y ago

mikeocool 2y ago

Curious if anyone knows the logistics of these cloud provider/AI company deals. In this case, it seems like the terms of the deal mean that Anthropic ends up spending most of the investment on AWS to pay for training. Does anthropic basically get at cost pricing on AWS? If Amazon has any margin on their pricing, it seems like this $4B investment ends up costing them a lot less, and this is a nice way to turn a cap ex investment into AWS revenue.

aiinnyc 2y ago
One hand washes the other.
tyre 2y ago
Yes exactly. This was the brilliance of the original MSFT investment into OpenAI. It was an investment in Azure scaling its AI training infra, but roundabout through a massive customer (exactly what you’d want as a design partner) and getting equity. I’m sure Anthropic negotiated a great deal on their largest cost center, while Amazon gets a huge customer to build out their system with.
- whatshisface 2y ago
  This explanation makes no sense, I could be AWS' biggest customer if they wanted to pay me for it. Something a little closer could be that the big tech companies wanted to acquire outside LLMs, not quite realizing that spending $1B on training only puts you $1B ahead.
  - raverbashing 2y ago
    Yes but Amazon is not making extra money with you being their biggest customer With Anthropic yes
    - whatshisface 2y ago
      Anthropic is getting $4B in investment in a year where their revenue was about $850M. Even if Amazon had bought them outright for that much, they would not be ahead. The fact that everybody keeps repeating the claim that Amazon is "making money" makes this appear like some kind of scam.

ipaddr 2y ago

I' m not sure how they make it back. The guardrails in place are extremely strict. The only people who seem to use it are a subset of developers who are unhappy with OpenAI. With Bard popping up free everywhere taking away much of the general user crowd and OpenAI offering the mini model always free and limited image generation / expensive model. Then you have to do it yourself crowd with llama. What is their target market? Governments? Amazon companies?There free their offers 10 queries and half of them need to be used to get around filters I don't see this positioned well for general customers.

JamesBarney 2y ago
Claude api use is already as high as openai. I believe that market will grow far more over time than chat as AI gets embedded in more of the applications we already use.
reubenmorais 2y ago
With Claude on Bedrock I can use LLMs in production without sending customer data to the US. And if you're already on AWS it's super easy to onboard wrt. auth and billing and compliance.
- maeil 2y ago
  If you're using Bedrock you're still subject to the CLOUD act/FISA meaning the whole angle of "not sending customer data to the US" isn't worth very much.
  - reubenmorais 2y ago
    It's worth enough to customers to make a best effort.
loandbehold 2y ago
Claude is the best model for programming. New generation of code tools like Cursor all use Claude as the main model.

swyx 2y ago

related coverage - https://www.anthropic.com/news/anthropic-amazon-trainium https://www.anthropic.com/news/anthropic-amazon-trainium - https://www.aboutamazon.com/news/aws/amazon-invests-additional-4-billion-anthropic-ai https://www.aboutamazon.com/news/aws/amazon-invests-addition... - https://techcrunch.com/2024/11/22/anthropic-raises-an-additional-4b-from-amazon-makes-aws-its-primary-cloud-partner/ https://techcrunch.com/2024/11/22/anthropic-raises-an-additi...

OceanBreeze77 2y ago
What's the difference between trainium and the AWS bedrock offering?
- newfocogi 2y ago
  AWS Trainium is a machine learning chip designed by AWS to accelerate training deep learning models. AWS Bedrock is a fully managed service that allows developers to build and scale generative AI applications using foundation models from various providers. Trainium == Silicon (looks like Anthropic has agreed to use it) Bedrock == AWS Service for LLMs behind APIs (you can use Anthropic models through AWS here)

jatins 2y ago

Anthropic gets a lot of it's business via AWS Bedrock so it's fair to say that Amazon probably has reasonable insight into how the Claude usage is growing that makes them confident in this investment

swyx 2y ago
> gets a lot of it's business via AWS Bedrock can you quantify? any numbers, even guesstimates?
- mediaman 2y ago
  One source [1] puts it at 60-75% of revenue as third-party API, most of which is AWS. [1]https://www.tanayj.com/p/openai-and-anthropic-revenue-breakdown https://www.tanayj.com/p/openai-and-anthropic-revenue-breakd...
paxys 2y ago
They are also confident in the investment because they know that all the money is going to come right back to them in the short term (via AWS spending) whether or not Anthropic actually survives in the long term.
- VirusNewbie 2y ago
  But anthropic is currently on GCP.
  - paxys 2y ago
    Nope they have supported AWS deployments for a long time, and now even more of the spend will be on AWS. > Anthropic has raised an additional $4 billion from Amazon, and has agreed to train its flagship generative AI models primarily on Amazon Web Services (AWS), Amazon’s cloud computing division.
    - VirusNewbie 2y ago

danvoell 2y ago

Great move. The value to easily deploying content, code, anything digital to AWS is immense.

fariszr 2y ago

This makes sense in the grand scheme of things. Anthropic used to be in the Google camp, but DeepMind seems to have picked up speed lately, with new “Experimental” Gemini Models beating everyone, while AWS doesn't have anything on the cutting edge of AI. Hopefully this helps Anthropic to fix their abysmal rate limits.

n2d4 2y ago
> Anthropic used to be in the Google camp I don't think Anthropic took any allegiances here. Amazon already invested $4B last year (Google invested $2B).
- fariszr 2y ago
  AFAIK they used Gcloud to run their models.

blibble 2y ago

what does this say about their internal teams working on the same thing?

uneekname 2y ago

As someone who doesn't really follow the LLM space closely, I have been consistently turning to Anthropic when I want to use an LLM (usually to work through coding problems) Beside Sonnet impressing me, I like Anthropic because there's less of an "icky" factor compared to OpenAI or even Google. I don't know how much better Anthropic actually is, but I don't think I'm the only one who chooses based on my perception of the company's values and social responsibility.

noirbot 2y ago
Yea, even if they're practically as bad, there's value in not having someone like Altman who's out there saying things about how many jobs he's excited to make obsolete and how much of the creative work of the world is worthless.
- MichaelZuo 2y ago
  I don’t think he ever said or even implied any percentage of ‘creative work of the world is worthless’? A lot less valuable then what artists may have desired or aspired to at the time of creation, sure, but definitely with some value.
  - staticman2 2y ago
    Doesn't he basically troll people on Twitter constantly?
  - kdpsooo 2y ago
    [dead]
  - noirbot 2y ago
    I mean, he's certainly acting as if he's entitled to train on all of it for free as long as it's not made by a big enough company that may be able to stop/sue him. And then feels entitled to complain about artists tainting the training data with tools. He has a very "wealth makes right" approach to the value of creative work.
- 2y ago

peppertree 2y ago

Anthropic should double down on the strategy of being the better code generator. No I don't need an AI agent to call the restaurant for me. Win the developers over and the rest will follow.

ianmcgowan 2y ago
I mean, look at Linux and Firefox!
- ripped_britches 2y ago
  Legendary comment, bravo
- peppertree 2y ago
  Pretty sure most frontend developers use Chrome since it has better dev tools. And yes everyone uses Linux most just don't know it.
- gopalv 2y ago
  > look at Linux and Firefox! AI models are more like a programming language or CPU architecture. OpenAI is Intel and Anthropic is AMD.
rtsil 2y ago
> Win the developers over and the rest will follow. Will they really? Anecdotal evidence, but nobody I know in real life knows about Claude (other than it's an ordinary first name). And they all use or at least know about ChatGPT. None of them are software engineers of course. But the corporate deciders aren't software engineers either.
- peppertree 2y ago
  Consumers don't have to consciously choose Claude, just like most people don't know about Linux. But if they use an Android phone or ever use any web services they are using Linux.
- 2y ago

seydor 2y ago

Gotta protect those H100s from rusting

pknerd 2y ago

Rival? They kick you out after a few messages and ask you to come back later. Gpt doesn't do that

Etheryte 2y ago
Anecdotal experience, but as far as I've played around with them, Claude's models have given me a better impression. I would much rather have great responses with lower availability than mediocre responses available all the time.
maleldil 2y ago
Are you a paying customer? I exclusively use their best model and while I get warnings (stuff about longer chats leading to more limit usage), I've never been kicked out. The only thing is that they've recently started defaulting to Concise to cut costs, which is fine with me.
- cruffle_duffle 2y ago
  Concise mode is honestly better anyway. I’d prefer it always be in that mode. But that being said I bump into hard limits far more often than I do with ChatGPT. Even if I keep chats short like it constantly suggests, eventually it cuts me off.
  - Sebguer 2y ago
    It's a selectable style at any time in Claude.ai, FYI!
- pknerd 2y ago
  I used GPT as a free customer and now a paid one. I was never asked to leave after a few messages (20ish) by GPT.
Detrytus 2y ago
I guess this is exactly the problem that this investment would solve.

cainxinth 2y ago

They certainly need the money. The Pro service has been running in limited mode all week due to being over capacity. It defaults to “concise” mode during high capacity but Pro users can select to put it back into “Full Response.” But I can tell the quality drops even when you do that, and it fails and brings up error messages more commonly. They don’t have enough compute to go around.

sbuttgereit 2y ago
Hmmm... I wonder if this is why some of the results I've gotten over the past few days have been pretty bad. It's easy to dismiss poor results on LLM quality variance from prompt to prompt vs. something like this where the quality is actively degraded without notification. I can't say this is in fact what I'm experience, but it was noticeable enough I'm going to check.
- 55555 2y ago
  Same experience here.
- jmathai 2y ago
  Never occurred to me that the response changes based on load. I’ve definitely noticed it seems smarter at times. Makes evaluating results nearly impossible.
  - kridsdale1 2y ago
    My human responses degrade when I’m heavily loaded and low on resources, too.
    - TeMPOraL 2y ago
      Unrelated. Inference doesn't run in sync with the wall clock; it takes whatever it takes. The issue is more like telling a room of support workers they are free to half-ass the work if there's too many calls, so they don't reject any until even half-assing doesn't lighten the load enough.

lasermike026 2y ago

Does anyone know how they are going to make money and turn a profit one day?

thornewolf 2y ago
LLM inference is getting cheaper year over year. It often loses money now, it may eventually stop losing money when it gets cheap enough to run. - But surely the race to the bottom will continue? Maybe, but they do offer a consumer subscription that can diverge from actual serving costs. /speculation
- lasermike026 2y ago
  I'm working with models and the costs are ridiculous. $7000 card and 800 watts later for my small projects and I can't imagine how they can make money in the next 5 to 10 years. I need to do more research on hardware approaching that reduces costs and power consumption. I just started experimenting with llama.cpp and I'm mildly impressed.
- Palmik 2y ago
  Looking at API providers like Together that host open source models like Llama 70b and running these models in production myself, they have healthy margins (and their inference stack is much better optimized).
sigmar 2y ago
relatedly: is claude3.5-haiku being delivered above their cost, after they quadrupled the price? Though it wouldn't ensure profitability since they're spending so much on training. I'm sure with inference-use growing, they're hoping that eventually total_expenses(inference) grows to be much much larger than total_expenses(training)
km144 2y ago
Same as the big tech companies, probably make all of their products worse in service to advertising. AI-generated advertising prompted by personal data could be extremely good at getting people to buy things if tuned appropriately.

yieldcrv 2y ago

its a better experience, prints out token responses faster, and doesn't randomly 'disconnect' or whatever ChatGPT does I hope they're also cooking up some cool features and can handle capacity

KaoruAoiShiho 2y ago

I know that if Nvidia did this lots of people on twitter would be screaming about fraud and self-dealing.

bfrog 2y ago

McAfee like investing

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

gavi 2y ago

I love Claude 3.5 sonnet and their UI is top notch especially for coding, recently though they have been facing capacity issues especially during weekdays correlating with working hours. Have tried Qwen2.5 coder 32B and it's very good and close to Claude 3.5 in my coding cases.

anovick 2y ago
There's one problem with Claude's chat box where ``` opens an intrusive code block box that's hard to close/skip. But I also agree that Claude 3.5 Sonnet is giving very good results. Not only for coding, and also for languages other than English.
- KTibow 2y ago
  You can exit with the down arrow
  - anovick 2y ago
    Thanks!
- johnisgood 2y ago
  This is what annoys me a lot, too. I mean the fact that I cannot have paste retain the formatting (```, `, etc.). Same with the UI retaining my prompt, but not the formatting, so if you do some formatting and reload, you will lose that formatting.

demaga 2y ago

I think Claude is actually superior to ChatGPT and needs more recognition. So good news, I guess

r0fl 2y ago
I agree it’s better for coding but it hits limits or seems very slow , even on paid subscription, a lot more often than ChatGPT
internet101010 2y ago
Yep. I start most technical prompts with 4o and Claude side-by-side in LibreChat and more often than not end up moving forward with Claude.

uptownfunk 2y ago

AWS is just playing copycat with msft. They rarely have any good original ideas. Other than IaaS and online retail.

pdabbadabba 2y ago
> They rarely have any good original ideas. Other than IaaS and online retail. Lol. Is that all?? If you have to have only two good original ideas, you could do a lot worse.
reducesuffering 2y ago
And you think MSFT isn't 95% copycat? Teams is Slack clone. Azure is AWS clone. SurfaceBook (remember those?) Macbook clone. Edge is Chrome clone. Bing is Google clone. Even VSCode was an Atom/Electron fork and Windows Subsystem for Linux...
- mkl 2y ago
  Surface Books are nothing like Macbooks - Macbooks don't have a touch screen, pen support, or reversible screen tablet mode, and the whole structure is completely different. Surface Pro, Surface Book, and Surface Laptop Studio are some of the most original laptop form factors I've seen.
  - rwalle 2y ago
    Exactly. Too bad Microsoft only cares about enterprise customers and never made the Surface line attractive to regular consumers. They could have been very interesting and competitive alternatives to MacBooks.
deanCommie 2y ago
What's Microsoft's Bedrock?

steveBK123 2y ago

Some of these investments sound big in absolute terms.. However not that big considering the scale of the investor AND that many of these investors are also vendors. MSFT/AMZN/NVDA investing in AI firms that then use their clouds/chips/whatever is an interesting circular investment.

dgfitz 2y ago
Four thousand million dollars. That’s a lot of money.
- steveBK123 2y ago
  That's 2 days of Amazon revenue, invested in a company to then send the investment back as more revenue to Amazon in the form of AWS usage.

handohando 2y ago

[dead]

cryptozeus 2y ago

They certainly need the money, not sure how many users will pay for monthly subscription.

dangoodmanUT 2y ago

> Amazon does not have a seat on Anthropic’s board. Insane

ramesh31 2y ago

Anthropic will be the winner here, zero doubts in my mind. They have leapfrogged head and shoulders above OpenAI over the last year. Who'd have thought a business predicated entirely on keeping the ~1000 people on earth qualified to work on this stuff happy would go downhill once they failed at that.

crowcroft 2y ago

So we have Microsoft -> OpenAI (& Inflection AI) Google -> Gemini (and a bit of Anthropic) Amazon -> Anthropic Meta -> Llama Is big tech good for the startup ecosystem, or are they monopolies eating everything (or both?). To be fair to Google and Meta they came up with a lot of the stuff in the first place, and aren't just buying the competition.

gabes 2y ago
Meta doesn’t buy competition?
- airstrike 2y ago
  Facebook / Instagram?
- oefnak 2y ago
  WhatsApp
sangnoir 2y ago
There wouldn't be an LLM startup ecosystem without big tech. Notable contributions: Nvidia for, well, (gestures at everything), Google for discovering (inventing?) transformers, being early advocates of ML, authoring tensorflow, Meta for Torch and open sourcing Llama, Microsoft for investing billions in OpenAI early on and keeping the hype alive. The last one is a reach, I'm sure Microsoft Research did some cool things I'm unaware of.
- crowcroft 2y ago
  You might be right, we don’t know how an alternative reality would have played out though to say if this is the only way (and fastest) way we could have got here.

andai 2y ago

I've been playing with Alibaba's Qwen 2.5 model and I've had it claim to be Claude. (Though it usually claims to be Llama, and it seems to think it's a literal llama, i.e. it identifies as an animal, "among other things".)

sunaookami 2y ago
Claude also sometimes claims/claimed that it is ChatGPT or a model by OpenAI. Same with LLaMa. It's just polluated training data.

devoutsalsa 2y ago

If they are over capacity, does that mean they have significant revenue?

johnisgood 2y ago

I much prefer Claude over ChatGPT, based on my experience using both extensively. Claude understands me significantly better and seems to "know" my intentions with much greater ease. For example, when I request the full file, it provides it without any issues or unnecessary reiterations (ChatGPT fails after me repeatedly instructing it to), often confirming my request with a brief summary beforehand, but nothing more. Additionally, Claude frequently asks clarifying questions to better understand my goals, something I have noticed ChatGPT never did. I have found it quite amazing that it does that. So... as long as this money helps them improve their LLM even more, I am all up for it. My main issue is quickly being rate-limited in relatively long chats, making me wait 4 hours despite having a subscription for Pro. Recently I have noticed some other related issues, too. More money could help with these issues, too. To the developers: keep up the excellent work and may you continue striving for improvement. I feel like ChatGPT is worse now than it was half a year ago, I hope this will not happen to Claude.

guptadagger 2y ago
Speaking of ChatGPT getting worse over time, it would be interesting to see ChatGPT be benchmarked continuously to see how it performs over time (and the results published somewhere publically). Even local variations would be interesting
- arnaudsm 2y ago
  https://livebench.ai/ https://livebench.ai/ does that, the latest gpt4o underperforms previous versions significantly
TimTheTinker 2y ago
Claude also more readily corrects me or answers "no" to a question (when the answer should be "no").
- hirvi74 2y ago
  So, I have a custom prompt I use with GPT that I found here a year or so ago. One of the custom prompt instructions was something along the lines of being more direct when it does not know something. Since then, I have not had that problem, and have even managed to get just "no" or "I don't know" as an answer.

submeta 2y ago

I had to switch from Pro to Teams plan and pay 150 USD for 5 accounts because the Pro plan has gotten unusable. It will allow me to ask a dozen or so questions and then will block me for hours because of „high capacity.“ I don’t need five accounts, one for 40 USD would be totally fine if it would allow me to work uninterrupted for a couple of hours. All in all Claude is magic. It feels like having ten assistants at my fingertip. And for that even 100 USD is worth paying.

modriano 2y ago
I just start new chats whenever the chat gets long (in terms of number of tokens). It's kind of a pain to have to form a prompt that encapsulates enough context, but it has prevented me from hitting the Pro limit. Also, I include more questions and detail in each prompt. Why does that work? Claude includes the entire chat with each new prompt you submit [0], and the limit is based on the number of tokens you've submitted. After not too many prompts, there can be 10k+ tokens in the chat (which are all submitted in each new prompt, quickly advancing towards the limit). (I also have a chatGPT sub and I use that for many questions, especially now that it includes web search capabilities) [0] https://support.anthropic.com/en/articles/8324991-about-claude-pro-usage https://support.anthropic.com/en/articles/8324991-about-clau...
- greenie_beans 2y ago
  > It's kind of a pain to have to form a prompt that encapsulates enough context, but it has prevented me from hitting the Pro limit. Also, I include more questions and detail in each prompt. i get it to provide a prompt to start the new chat. i sometimes wish there was a button for it bc it's such a big part of my workflow
  - greenie_beans 2y ago
    also, do any data engineers know how context works on the backend? seems like you could get an llm to summarize a long context and that would shorten it? also seems like i don't know what i'm talking about. could the manual ux that i've come up happen behind the scenes?

mrcwinn 2y ago

The status pages of OpenAI and Anthropic are in stark contrast and that mirrors my experience. Love Anthropic for code and its Projects feature, but OpenAI is still way ahead on voice and reliability.

sebastiennight 2y ago
Open AI status page: https://status.openai.com/ https://status.openai.com/ Anthropic status page: https://status.anthropic.com/ https://status.anthropic.com/ (Yes, there is a rather stark difference in number of recent incidents.)

Simon_ORourke 2y ago

Will Amazon leadership require it's new Gen AI to physically move itself to an office to perform valid work?

GuB-42 2y ago
"Amazon Web Services will also become Anthropic’s “primary cloud and training partner,” according to a blog post." So yes, if we consider Amazon datacenters to be the equivalent of an office for an AI.

black_13 2y ago

[dead]

desktopninja 2y ago

Mmm. Amazon lays off thousands of workers but drops 4Bil$ into another company. Mmm.

bdangubic 2y ago
cut the fat, use the money to get the steak :)

gardenhedge 2y ago

Claude pro is a joke. Limited messaging and token lengths

UltraSane 2y ago

Claude Sonnet 3.5 is simply amazing. No matter how much I used it I continue to be amazed at what it can produce. I recently asked it what the flow of data is when two vNICs on the same host send data to each other and it produced a very detailed answer complete with a really nice diagram. I then asked what langue the diagram uses and it said Mermaid. So I then asked it to produce some example L1,2,3 diagrams for computer networks and it did just that. So it then asked it to produce Python code using PyATS to run show commands on Cisco switches and routers and use the data to produce Mermaid network diagrams for layers 1,2, and 3 and it just spit out working Python code. This is a relatively obscure task with a specific library no one outside of Networking knows about integrating with a diagram generator. And it fully understands the difference in network layers. Just astonishing. And now it can write and run Javascript apps. The only feature I really want is for it to be able to run generated Python code to see if it has any errors and automatically fix them. If progress on LLMs doesn't stall they will be truly amazing in just 10 years. And probably consuming 5% of global electricity.

k1musab1 2y ago
VS Code has a plugin Cline, using your api key it will run Claude sonnet, can edit and create files in the workspace, and run commands in the terminal to check functionality, read errors, and correct them.
- DirkH 2y ago
  This makes it sound to me like Cursor is a waste of money?
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

joshdavham 2y ago

I often hear people praise Claude as being better than chatGPT, but I’ve given both a shot and much prefer chatGPT. Is there something I’m missing here? I use chatGPT for a variety of things but mainly coding and I feel subjectively that chatGPT is still better for the job.

owenpalmer 2y ago
What languages do you use?
- joshdavham 2y ago
  Mostly python and js, so the most popular ones. I should mention that I do use obscure modules and packages in each language where chatGPT starts to suck a little. I imagine this might be similar to how chat might work with Rust or Zig, etc. Why do you ask?

1317 2y ago

I tried out Claude once, I found it was alright but not much better than ChatGPT for what I was doing at that point Then I thought I'd try it again recently, I went onto the site and apparently I'm banned. I don't even remember what I did...

neets 2y ago

How much of that is converted back into AWS credits?

Mistletoe 2y ago
I'm imagining Gary Oldman in The Professional screaming "EVERY ONE".

yoyohello13 2y ago

Claude is absolutely incredible. And I don’t trust openAI or Microsoft so it’s nice to have an alternative.

cauthon 2y ago
Amazon famously more trustworthy
- stingraycharles 2y ago
  Google also invested $2B into Anthrophic. Seems like both Google and Amazon are providing credits for their cloud, also as a hedge against Microsoft / OpenAI becoming too big.
- yoyohello13 2y ago
  If I have to chose between Amazon and Microsoft I’ll chose the lesser evil. Microsoft owns the entire stack from OS to server to language to source control. Anything to weaken their hold is a win in my book.
  - esperent 2y ago
    > chose between Amazon and Microsoft... the lesser evil A hard question. If you focusing purely on tech, probably Microsoft. But overall evil in the world? With their union busting and abuse of workers, Amazon, I'd say.
pkillarjun 2y ago
I will start using Claude the day they stop asking me for my mobile number.
- sourcecodeplz 2y ago
  I can cross the street and get a new FREE SIM with a number from the shop. all i have to do is put some money on it to activate it, like $1 ...

jessriedel 2y ago

Is there an implied valuation? Or not enough details released?

bg24 2y ago

AWS is achieving 2 objectives: 1/ Best-in-class LLM in Bedrock. This could be done w/o the partnership as well. 2/ Evolving Tranium and Inferential as worthy competitors for large scale training and inference. They have thousands of large-scale customers, and as the adoption grows, the investment will pay for itself.

ulfw 2y ago

How many employees will lose their lifelihood to pay for this again?

ddxv 2y ago

I must be missing it. How is anthropic worth so much when open source is closing in so fast? What value will anthropic have if competitors can be mostly free?

Elizabeth0147 2y ago

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