18 ms·

Stop calling working people without a college education stupid and stop alienating men. "Non-educated" people work just as hard or harder than the rest of us. I

Stop calling working people without a college education stupid and stop alienating men. "Non-educated" people work just as hard or harder than the rest of us. I've been to college and the only thing it "educated" me in is Computer Science, which I majored in. I'm not in any way better as a human being than my friends working in construction. Quite the contrary, their job is far more important to society than mine. If I stopped my niche research tomorrow, no one would really care. If handymen, farmers, or truckers stopped working, there would be riots. Also, the DNC should really stop forcing unwanted candidates down people's throats. It doesn't work, even when you spam social platforms with your narrative.

mytailorisrich 2y ago
What you've written is exactly what happened in the UK during the Brexit referendum. The lessons still haven't been learned.
- amarcheschi 2y ago
  As in, they were right calling people bigots if they wanted to get out of the eu? That definitely didn't improve uk, I've even heard about people feeling "betrayed" by the now valid tariffs that damaged their UK business
  - mytailorisrich 2y ago
    Working class people who, especially, wanted to control immigration were called bigots, uneducated, stupid, racist, etc and were ignored. Result is that they voted for Brexit. No, that didn't change anything because this was ignored by the establishment (both Labour and Conservatives) and that is still festering with the resulting rise of the Reform UK party (of Nigel Farage who's celebrating with Trump in Mar-a-Lago right now).
    - imp0cat 2y ago
      Here's a better analysis of the Brexit thing which was posted here yesterday. It was mostly decided by the fact that the pro-Brexit people had better marketing campaign. https://dominiccummings.substack.com/p/q-and-a https://dominiccummings.substack.com/p/q-and-a
      - mytailorisrich 2y ago
        "Better marketing" campaign is another word for saying that they understood people's concerns better and were thus able to use that to their advantage instead of insulting the people they were supposed to convince (as the Remain campaign did). This is what Cummings did to win.
        Dylan16807 2y ago
        Use that to their advantage by telling the truth or by lying?
        chimprich 2y ago
        > instead of insulting the people they were supposed to convince (as the Remain campaign did) Can you point to any examples of this? I don't think the official Remain campaign did anything of the sort. Insulting the people you are trying to convert is a poor strategy, which is why I don't believe they did it. When you say "were called bigots, uneducated, stupid, racist, etc", what I think happened was that the Leave campaign alleged that that was what the Remainers thinking/saying and it gained traction.
      - rgblambda 2y ago
        Your "analysis" is from someone involved in the Brexit campaign. Of course Cummings is going to say he was amazing at marketing. Another argument would be that Vote Leave broke campaign spending rules. In countries with legally binding referenda, that would justify rerunning the referendum. But in the UK it was "only advisory".
  - ben_w 2y ago
    I believe the argument being made is that calling spades spades is bad when spade is an insult and you need to convince the spades to vote for you. Which is also why Republicans calling Democrats childish names such as "Dummy-crat" or saying "socialist" (or "commie") for all things to the left of their Overton Window doesn't convince any to their left to change their minds rightward.
    - amarcheschi 2y ago
      I think that might be the culprit, but then you have no escape. Some post brexit interviews have been - at least for an European - quite hilarious. I feel sorry for them tho, but it's sort of a leopards ate my face situation
      - ben_w 2y ago
        Indeed, and similar. I used to live in Cambridge; I knew only one person who was a long-time UKIP voter in EU elections, who was "delighted" by the result of the referendum. Even though I'd already been openly discussing moving to Germany ahead of the referendum, and went on an InterRail trip immediately before it to find a place to move to in the event of Leave winning, he did not comprehend that my reaction to the result included cutting him out of my life entirely. He wanted the Cambridge to shrink, I left. That's his face leopard. (As for intelligence: he also sometimes boasted of being in the international maths olympiad, this was Cambridge after all).
- d4rti 2y ago
  What happened is that the remain side had to fight on the side of a reality that existed and the Brexiteers made up a fantasy future that has failed to materialise.
  - ben_w 2y ago
    > Brexiteers made up a fantasy future Worse: many different and mutually incompatible fantasy futures, which they denied ahead of the referendum, and which after the referendum became a source of infighting that made all possible Brexits impossible to get past Westminster until Johnson came along and lied to everyone to get enough support to actually close a deal. (The only time I can think of when digging a deeper hole got anywhere, even if the where was a… I guess in this metaphor: a disused basement where the stairs were missing?)
  - mytailorisrich 2y ago
    Your comment somewhat illustrates the point. It disparages those who voted for Brexit instead of trying to understand them, which is a recipe for eventual failure as we've seen. Judging by this thread, it's still not possible to have a discussion on this...
    - d4rti 2y ago
      There was nothing coherent to understand. A rag tag coalition mainly built on delusional positions. - we can have all the trade benefits without freedom of movement (specifically denied by EU at the time, didn't materialise) - we will have 'more trade' afterwards (fails to understand how trade works) - we won't have to follow EU rules (in reality, we can't really diverge that much from how the EU works without incurring penalties) - we won't have to pay anything to them / we hold all the cards / ... (we did pay for our liabilities and we definitely didn't hold the cards) - we can become much more left wing if we leave the neoliberal EU (fails to account for the fact our country isn't particularly left wing overall) - politicians will have to take responsibility/can't blame the EU (brexiteers keep blaming the EU even now, BJ et.al. have faced minimal or no consequences for their actions) - we can fish again (ignores relative importance of fishing vs the actually productive economy, disregards that EU is a big market for said fish) What do you suggest we engage with?
- YeGoblynQueenne 2y ago
  What lessons haven't been learned? Keir Starmer's Labour won the last UK elections by a landslide and the Tories got the boot. I do think your analysis oversimplifies a complex issue. I'm not ignoring that Starmer got elected by keeping his mouth shut and his hands behind his back, but the Tories' smash-mouth politics did not win the day anyway. What I can see from where I am is that Brexit was a very special case and it's all gone back to normal now.
  - mytailorisrich 2y ago
    There was no landslide. Labour actually got fewer votes than at the previous election when it was by Corbyn! What happens is that Conservatives voters voted for someone else, mostly Reform UK. And the reasons have been the same as what's been festering since Brexit with the added factor that the Conservatives increased immigration to record level...
    - YeGoblynQueenne 2y ago
      Labour won with 411 seats (up 211 from 2019) and 33.3% of the popular vote (9,708,716 votes) vs. 121 seats for the Conservatives (down 251) and 23.7% of the popular vote (6,828,925 ). YMMV but I call a lead of 290 seats and 2,879,791 votes a landslide. It was the Lib Dems that seem to have taken most of the Tories' voters: 72 seats (up 64) and 3,519,143 votes. The latter at least checks out. Reform was up 1 seat from 2019 for 5 seats total. Not quite a big splash then. Labour also won big in Scotland against the SNP for the first time in years (but that was rather the fault of the SNP). Data from wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_United_Kingdom_general_election https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_United_Kingdom_general_el...
      - mytailorisrich 2y ago
        You're completely missing the point and where the votes went. Labour got 9,708,716 votes in 2024 vs 10,269,051 in 2019. Starmer and Labour did not convince voters adn lost votes to the Greens. What happened is that people did not vote for the Conservatives and instead voted Lib Dems and, especially, Reform UK, which got a massive 14% (3rd place and more than the Lib Dems). The Reform UK vote is because the Conservatives did not deliver on Brexit and even more importantly did the opposite of what they said on immigration, which reached record level. The number of seats to Labour is a result of the above (Conservatives dropped so Labour candidate was elected) not because people voted Labour more than before. The surge is Reform UK. So the same issues that have been at play in the Brexit referendum are still the key issues.
dutchCourage 2y ago
Was Kamalas campaign demeaning to the working class and alienating men? I was under the impression that the Dems were doing more for the working class, and that Trump was alienating women.
- ruthmarx 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - abcd_f 2y ago
    Yep. Hence the recent push to kneecap the education in States - be it book bans, forced Bible studies or other eye-popping regressions. Watching this unfold across the pond was a bewildering experience.
    - ruthmarx 2y ago
      I would have thought young people having access to the internet would have allowed them to educate themselves and see through bullshit, but apparently not. I really do think this is the beginning of the end for the US. At least I have front row tickets to the show.
      - ks2048 2y ago
        I think this is the middle of the end. The beginning of the end was probably 2000-2001.
  - synecdoche 2y ago
    Who are you calling uneducated? Just because your have an opinion doesn’t make you an authority on what people under other life conditions need to lead a successful life. Speak for yourself.
    - ruthmarx 2y ago
      > Just because your have an opinion doesn’t make you an authority on what people under other life conditions need to lead a successful life. That has nothing to do with anything. Every single person voting on the economy for Trump, blaming Biden for inflation is an example of a lack of education. Just for one example. There's a reason college educated people vote so differently to non college educated people on average.
ruthmarx 2y ago
[flagged]
- jeffhuys 2y ago
  The abortion thing is very much down to opinion. Also, why is bacteria life on mars but a clump of cells is not life on earth? ;p There's no winning this. That's why it's actually smart to let the states decide this - that way Trump has no say in it.
  - John23832 2y ago
    > Also, why is bacteria life on mars but a clump of cells is not life on earth? ;p Because the bacteria on Mars would plausibly exist on it's own. On a different planet.
    - noworriesnate 2y ago
      A newborn can't exist on its own though. It needs to nurse, has to have someone change its diapers, etc.
      - John23832 2y ago
        >A newborn can't exist on its own though. It needs to nurse, has to have someone change its diapers, etc. A newborn by literal definition can exist on its own. It has been born. A newborn can breath, metabolize foods, and does not depend on being connected to another life giving organism. The more appropriate work you're looking for is "care". You need to care for a newborn for it to survive. You can provide care specifically for a newborn. You cannot specifically provide care for a fetus, you are providing care for the mother. I know all of this is falling on deaf ears though.
        noworriesnate 2y ago
        The mother is providing care for the unborn child with her body. Seems like needing care vs. being unable to exist on its own is a distinction without a difference.
EricDeb 2y ago
Yea Kamala should not have been the candidate. She was tied to Biden who was associated with inflation which I think really decided this. I'm not sure the rest of your comment has that much to do with it
- dkdbejwi383 2y ago
  > She was tied to Biden who was associated with inflation which I think really decided this. What about the rest of the world who've also been experiencing the same? It's a very shortsighted take, and we've seen the same in the UK where Liz Truss 6 weeks as PM has taken the blame for global inflation in the court of popular opinion
  - EricDeb 2y ago
    Of course, its not logical, but voters "feel" they were better under trump without realizing inflation was a global phenomenon. This was also a failure of Dem messaging.
- theshrike79 2y ago
  "Associated with" not "caused by". This is why we call Trump's voters "stupid", the US is still under Trump's tax plan until 1/2025. So if someone has an issue with taxes, it's not Biden's fault even though he is in office. I know this and I'm not even American
  - iinnPP 2y ago
    Inflation and taxes are two different things.
    - vkou 2y ago
      Inflation was caused by the Covid stimulus of 2020, and the mountains of free money printed that year (which is why it hit the entire world - every government did the exact same thing). Last I checked, Biden wasn't president at the time...
rtpg 2y ago
I understand calling people stupid is not a strategy to convince someone. But it’s not like that is why someone votes for Trump, right? It’s maybe more of a way to disincentivize conversions back. I… really wish there had been a primary though. Biden deserves to be hated for the rest of his life for this (along with all of his other decision making)
- selfmodruntime 2y ago
  I wish there had been a primary, too. The DNC did a massive disservice to the American people.
  - johnny22 2y ago
    there was no time to have a real primary with biden dropping out when he did if she still wanted to end up on ballots.
    - pessimizer 2y ago
      They should have had a primary instead of having a ritualistic anointing of Biden. The reason Biden had to drop out is because he was there when he shouldn't have been. I can vaguely understand fixing a primary for H. Clinton, but for Biden? One of the things Biden ran on in 2020 was a vague indication that he would leave after one term.
    - notnaut 2y ago
      Yes. It was Biden and his team’s decision to prop him up til it was too late.
    - drawkward 2y ago
      Biden promised to be a one term president, but his ego craved more power. He will go down along with RBG for helping hand democracy to fascists.
  - ninkendo 2y ago
    There was a primary, Biden won it. Maybe you wanted a second primary after he stepped down? That would have been tough.
yladiz 2y ago
Which candidate was unwanted?
- selfmodruntime 2y ago
  Harris. She was dead last in the 2020 primary.
- lupusreal 2y ago
  The one that didn't win their primaries.
y7 2y ago
What I don't get is how the bar for the Democrats seems to be so much higher than for Trump. Sure, "the typical man" is more easily validated by Trump than Harris, but at the same time Trump says much worse things about women than Harris about men. I can see how the Harris seems more "elitist" in a way than Trump, but to me that seems like a subtle negative versus Trump's long list of very obvious flaws. How does the hatred for the Democrats get so big?
- selfmodruntime 2y ago
  Trump doesn't alienate a specific group of hardworking Americans who turn out to vote. The people who are turned off by him largely don't vote at all. > but at the same time Trump says much worse things about women than Harris about men One would think so, but Trump's talk about women is just how society in general talks about women. As sad as it is, women are used to that rhetoric. > How does the hatred for the Democrats get so big? Multiple high profile members of the Democratic Party actively demonize rural Americans and especially men.
  - n4r9 2y ago
    You're saying that Trump won because US society is misogynistic?
    - selfmodruntime 2y ago
      In essence, yes. I'm saying that Trump's narrative on women is no worse than societies default. Women experience far worse things than macho talk. It takes more to alienate a lot of them.
      - n4r9 2y ago
        It feels like you're balancing two conflicting notions here: 1. Stop calling average people ignorant. 2. Average people are misogynistic.
        2y ago
tessierashpool9 2y ago
But Scholz, Esken and von der Leyen are really popular! Oh wait, we're talking US politics here, my bad ...
archagon 2y ago
This is all moot now. We have a far-right supermajority in government. America is fucked for the next few decades at the very least. The DNC is no longer relevant.
- DiscourseFan 2y ago
  [flagged]
- carom 2y ago
  Calling republicans far right is the exact rhetoric that alienates and divides people. Take the next four years to try to find some common ground with the right.
  - archagon 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - nazka 2y ago
      Actually that statement shows exactly the political and societal problems there is today in the US. If people can’t even talk together and even get insulted it’s going to go even worst.
      - archagon 2y ago
        There is really no worse left to go.
        nazka 2y ago
        Ho really? Did not history teach us everything that is happening today and can happen tomorrow ? It can go worst as in a civil war. To a full split of the country in x countries. Now I don’t think it will happen but saying it can’t go worst is both factually false and not anchored in reality
        Spooky23 2y ago
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
lynx23 2y ago
I couldn't agree more. This "my political enemy is stupid" approach is very divisive and will not lead to good outcomes.
- unrealhoang 2y ago
  How come? Trump’s just won an election with it.
  - camdenreslink 2y ago
    There does seem to be a real double standard here.
  - lynx23 2y ago
    I realized the stupidity argument during covid first, and it all came from the left. So much contempt, a reason why I no longer can identify with liberals. In fact, I am disgusted by what I remember from 2020/21.
beeboobaa3 2y ago
[flagged]
happyraul 2y ago
If one handyman or one farmer or one trucker stopped working, no one would really care. If all CS researchers stopped working, I'd wager people would care, just as they would if handymen/farmers/truckers stopped working.
- aziaziazi 2y ago
  I thing OP point is that if the trucker stopped working people and businesses will be impacted that day (before he gets replaced, easy with trucker, not with labour). The impact will be more direct and tangible way than, say, a CS researcher not showing up this morning.
lqet 2y ago
> Quite the contrary, their job is far more important to society than mine. Non-american here, but I feel pretty much the same way. I also do niche research in computer science. People working in the supermarket, people driving trains and busses, medicine workers, construction workers, they all do work that is vastly more important to society than mine. A single educator in my child's kindergarten most likely does work that is orders of magnitude more important to society than mine is. Maybe this attitude comes from the fact that both of my parents never set a foot into higher education, but it is something I feel very strongly, and which is quite humbling. I remember my father predicting in the early 2000s that the academic elite was increasingly crippling the country by adding more and more non-pragmatic rules in seek of some idealistic utopia, and that they would lose the support of the masses pretty soon. As a young teenager, I did not believe him, and in my arrogance of youth, I also dismissed it as the ramblings of an uneducated worker. But sure enough, most of the things he feared back then turned out to come true.
- patates 2y ago
  > I also do niche research in computer science. People working in the supermarket, people driving trains and busses, medicine workers, construction workers, they all do work that is vastly more important to society than mine. Today, for sure. I think it's far more nuanced in the long term. Most of these jobs would be non-existent without the researchers of yesterday. Of course, if you disregard today completely for building the tomorrow, a lot of people who don't get access to wealth today will be pissed. Which is very roughly what's happening in the USA. "What we have now is perfect, and can sustain forever, stop with the progressive BS", chant the conservatives. It's a hard balance. Dems messed it up, Reps will mess it up further, I bet. I'm just observing from an another continent.
  - selfmodruntime 2y ago
    > Most of these jobs would be non-existent without the researchers of yesterday The research of yesterday was on another level than most of what is done today. Not to say that it's worthless, pursuit of knowledge is always worth it.
abcd_f 2y ago
> Stop calling working people without a college education stupid and stop alienating men. Nobody is calling anyone stupid just because of the lack of education. However the lack of education makes people gullible and easy to manipulate. From bleach as a Covid remedy to marginal tax as a grave danger to working people - you don't have to go far for examples. And when someone does believe this sort of blatant bullshit, then, yeah, they don't come across as particularly bright individuals.
- ttoinou 2y ago
  Overeducated people are as much manipulable, but in a different way
  - TheHypnotist 2y ago
    [flagged]
  - slothtrop 2y ago
    I've seen research shared here that suggest that more education scales with more radical political beliefs and overconfidence, for both sides of the spectrum, not just left. So you're right. Though of course more people concentrated in cosmopolitan areas with liberal cultures means more educated people lean left.
- nazgulsenpai 2y ago
  > Nobody is calling anyone stupid just because of the lack of education. > However the lack of education makes people gullible and easy to manipulate. From bleach as a Covid remedy... You may not realize you said it, but you said it.
  - ninkendo 2y ago
    So what is the takeaway here? When referring to trump supporters, follow the line of reasoning: - Trump floated bleach as a covid remedy - Bleach as a covid remedy is obviously stupid (we should both be agreeing on this one) - Trump supporters support such statements from trump - But pointing that out is "calling them stupid" and thus we shouldn't do it? I'm genuinely curious about this because it makes up so many discussions with trump supporters in a nut shell. I don't want to condescend to them, but I also shouldn't be pointing out things that genuinely are stupid about trump, because doing so would offend them too? What should I do, just pretend all the dumb things Trump does (and that his supporters support him for) don't exist? Just so I can find common ground? (I mean, strictly speaking this is exactly what I do in polite company with trump supporters. I just pretend all the really dumb shit doesn't exist and just talk to them about policy and stuff, and in the end I end up finding that we agree on 90% of stuff and we go on our way. And they continue to support trump for reasons I don't understand.)
YeGoblynQueenne 2y ago
This is an honest question, I'm not American, I don't live in the US and I genuinely don't know: how has Donald Trump served the interests of "working people without a college education" during the four years of his presidency? I'm also curious to know if the Democrats have done any different. In the interest of full disclosure I am totally guessing that neither did anything to materially improve the lives and fortunes of working-class Americans and neither Donald Trump will, nor would Kamala Harris. Working people in the US, as in the rest of the world seem to me to be shafted for good, by all sorts of economic forces that they have no control over. I'm speaking in this as a current academic but one-time unskilled, immigrant worker. It used to be that you could feed yourself and your family with "the sweat of your brow". Not any more. Who is working to change that?
- bitcurious 2y ago
  > how has Donald Trump served the interests of "working people without a college education" during the four years of his presidency? Uneducated working class folks compete with illegal immigrants for jobs and cheap housing. During his presidency illegal immigration was lower and wages rose for the working class and housing costs were relatively stable. He’s also positioned himself as the “law and order” candidate, and crime tends to impact the working class much more than the middle/upper classes. Mostly folks who voted for him voted on the premise that their experience of the economy was better when he was president rather than on the basis of individual policies.
  - n4r9 2y ago
    > During his presidency illegal immigration was lower Is that true? Legal immigration was lower especially during the lockdown (for obvious reasons). But the number of deportations of illegal immigrants barely changed, e.g. https://www.cato.org/blog/president-trump-reduced-legal-immigration-he-did-not-reduce-illegal-immigration https://www.cato.org/blog/president-trump-reduced-legal-immi... > wages rose for the working class That happened. And it happened even faster under Biden. > He’s also positioned himself as the “law and order” candidate And yet the murder rate rose to the highest level since 1997. > their experience of the economy was better when he was president I feel like it might be more accurate to say "perception" than "experience".
stillold 2y ago
They all just voted against their own economic interests to win their culture war. Objectively, they are stupid, even the ones who went to college.
- selfmodruntime 2y ago
  On the contrary. The voted for their own economic interests and ignored the culture war. Economics was the number one issue.
  - epakai 2y ago
    It was a reactionary response though. The fantasy of going back to low grocery prices is just that. Or are we actually going to pursue deflation? I don't see any policy there, just platitudes.
  - llm_nerd 2y ago
    On every objective measure the US has the best economy it has had in...pretty much ever. So they voted for "their own economic interests" by voting in a guy with plans that every economist says will be absolutely disastrous and will not only massively spike unemployment, it will lead to far greater prices for American consumers. Trump's plan for grocery prices is to put massive tariffs on grocery imports and to deport millions of workers. There is no one with a functioning logic cortex who doesn't see the problem with this plan. But at least they can rest comfortably knowing that the Musks, Sacks and Bezos' of the world will get a killer tax break for their next yacht. American elections are the guy in the big suburban house complaining that filling up his F350 costs a little more than it did during COVID shutdowns and thinking that somehow the guy floating insane plans is going to fix it. It's bizarre.
    - selfmodruntime 2y ago
      > On every objective measure the US has the best economy it has had in...pretty much ever. Except the one metric that really counts: People can't afford their basic needs. > So they voted for "their own economic interests" by voting in a guy with plans that every economist says You mean leftside selected economists with their own agenda. > will be absolutely disastrous and will not only massively spike unemployment, it will lead to far greater prices for American consumers. He had the lowest unemployment numbers in decades.
llm_nerd 2y ago
I get and fully understand that many Americans are angry and want change, and they exercised their democratic right and pursued that change. We all need to respect that. Many things are not on the right path, and I have a feeling "DEI" and grievance farming is going to have a rough time ahead. And I get it: As a white male I honestly am tired of government being a tool to suppress white males. I am sick of living in a Western country that endlessly self-flagellates and acts like it needs to host the world in some act of contrition for success. Having said that, it's hard as an outsider to look at the things Trump is campaigning on and not see that as not just calling "non-educated" people stupid, but he is literally relying upon it. Either his voters are extremely ill-educated, or they simply don't believe a word he says and actually make his lying a feature of his candidacy. Either aren't great. When just about every economist says that the US economy -- quite literally the best economy on the planet -- is going to implode under the policies Trump has stated (even just the tariff proposal, not even getting into the crackpot "abolish the IRS and write on a piece of paper that crypto wipes out the debt", or Elon magically cutting 2/3rds of the federal budget, etc.), for people to then vote for Trump to "fix" the economy is not educated. Being isolationist in one of the greatest eras of peace in human history will not bring peace to Earth, it's literally guaranteed to bring war that will end up on your doorstep, etc. Nuclear non-proliferation dies with this election, and there are a lot of powers that existed under the US umbrella that are going to fire up a nuclear program, covertly or not. I fear that many Americans just have no idea how much they have to lose. There is a sense of comfort and complacency to assume that this is the baseline. But it isn't. It can get much, much worse, very quickly.
- nodra 2y ago
  Well said.
- PeakKS 2y ago
  I find a lot of his voters seem to respond to criticisms with "Oh don't worry, he's not actually going to do those things." I think your point about making his lying a feature of his candidacy is spot on. Here's to hoping that nothing ever happens.
otteromkram 2y ago
> Quite the contrary, their job is far more important to society than mine. I doubt it. Think about how connected the world is, you can't even apply for jobs without the internet. Both jobs are equally important. The main difference is that you can get started doing construction without many pre-qualifications, while a construction worker may take a year or more to get the basics of computer engineering down.
v7p1Qbt1im 2y ago
That‘s the fault of capitalism. Which the right supports even harder than the democratic party (which also completely supports it).
Molitor5901 2y ago
One more to the list: Stop trying to twist science into conforming to political or social will.
- selfmodruntime 2y ago
  Yes! I hate that. Also, "listen to the science" people are obnoxious. There are regular scandals of people in STEM faking their results for decades and I've seen garbage labelled as research more often than I can count. I do not trust political sciences or humanities at all. There is little to no valid method to most things they publish. And I'm not alone in that opinion in my circle.
braiamp 2y ago
That would be true if there was a change with that population. Right now the numbers are that Trump won with slightly less votes than when he lost in the 2020 elections; and Kamala lost with significantly less vote than Biden got in the 2020 elections. There are almost 20 million of voters that didn't show up on this year election that showed for the 2020.
guappa 2y ago
Eh, if ONE builder stops working nothing happens. Likewise if ALL researchers stop working… we don't feel it the next day, but it will be felt.

mytailorisrich 2y ago

What you've written is exactly what happened in the UK during the Brexit referendum. The lessons still haven't been learned.

amarcheschi 2y ago
As in, they were right calling people bigots if they wanted to get out of the eu? That definitely didn't improve uk, I've even heard about people feeling "betrayed" by the now valid tariffs that damaged their UK business
- mytailorisrich 2y ago
  Working class people who, especially, wanted to control immigration were called bigots, uneducated, stupid, racist, etc and were ignored. Result is that they voted for Brexit. No, that didn't change anything because this was ignored by the establishment (both Labour and Conservatives) and that is still festering with the resulting rise of the Reform UK party (of Nigel Farage who's celebrating with Trump in Mar-a-Lago right now).
  - imp0cat 2y ago
    Here's a better analysis of the Brexit thing which was posted here yesterday. It was mostly decided by the fact that the pro-Brexit people had better marketing campaign. https://dominiccummings.substack.com/p/q-and-a https://dominiccummings.substack.com/p/q-and-a
    - mytailorisrich 2y ago
      "Better marketing" campaign is another word for saying that they understood people's concerns better and were thus able to use that to their advantage instead of insulting the people they were supposed to convince (as the Remain campaign did). This is what Cummings did to win.
      - Dylan16807 2y ago
        Use that to their advantage by telling the truth or by lying?
      - chimprich 2y ago
        > instead of insulting the people they were supposed to convince (as the Remain campaign did) Can you point to any examples of this? I don't think the official Remain campaign did anything of the sort. Insulting the people you are trying to convert is a poor strategy, which is why I don't believe they did it. When you say "were called bigots, uneducated, stupid, racist, etc", what I think happened was that the Leave campaign alleged that that was what the Remainers thinking/saying and it gained traction.
    - rgblambda 2y ago
      Your "analysis" is from someone involved in the Brexit campaign. Of course Cummings is going to say he was amazing at marketing. Another argument would be that Vote Leave broke campaign spending rules. In countries with legally binding referenda, that would justify rerunning the referendum. But in the UK it was "only advisory".
- ben_w 2y ago
  I believe the argument being made is that calling spades spades is bad when spade is an insult and you need to convince the spades to vote for you. Which is also why Republicans calling Democrats childish names such as "Dummy-crat" or saying "socialist" (or "commie") for all things to the left of their Overton Window doesn't convince any to their left to change their minds rightward.
  - amarcheschi 2y ago
    I think that might be the culprit, but then you have no escape. Some post brexit interviews have been - at least for an European - quite hilarious. I feel sorry for them tho, but it's sort of a leopards ate my face situation
    - ben_w 2y ago
      Indeed, and similar. I used to live in Cambridge; I knew only one person who was a long-time UKIP voter in EU elections, who was "delighted" by the result of the referendum. Even though I'd already been openly discussing moving to Germany ahead of the referendum, and went on an InterRail trip immediately before it to find a place to move to in the event of Leave winning, he did not comprehend that my reaction to the result included cutting him out of my life entirely. He wanted the Cambridge to shrink, I left. That's his face leopard. (As for intelligence: he also sometimes boasted of being in the international maths olympiad, this was Cambridge after all).
d4rti 2y ago
What happened is that the remain side had to fight on the side of a reality that existed and the Brexiteers made up a fantasy future that has failed to materialise.
- ben_w 2y ago
  > Brexiteers made up a fantasy future Worse: many different and mutually incompatible fantasy futures, which they denied ahead of the referendum, and which after the referendum became a source of infighting that made all possible Brexits impossible to get past Westminster until Johnson came along and lied to everyone to get enough support to actually close a deal. (The only time I can think of when digging a deeper hole got anywhere, even if the where was a… I guess in this metaphor: a disused basement where the stairs were missing?)
- mytailorisrich 2y ago
  Your comment somewhat illustrates the point. It disparages those who voted for Brexit instead of trying to understand them, which is a recipe for eventual failure as we've seen. Judging by this thread, it's still not possible to have a discussion on this...
  - d4rti 2y ago
    There was nothing coherent to understand. A rag tag coalition mainly built on delusional positions. - we can have all the trade benefits without freedom of movement (specifically denied by EU at the time, didn't materialise) - we will have 'more trade' afterwards (fails to understand how trade works) - we won't have to follow EU rules (in reality, we can't really diverge that much from how the EU works without incurring penalties) - we won't have to pay anything to them / we hold all the cards / ... (we did pay for our liabilities and we definitely didn't hold the cards) - we can become much more left wing if we leave the neoliberal EU (fails to account for the fact our country isn't particularly left wing overall) - politicians will have to take responsibility/can't blame the EU (brexiteers keep blaming the EU even now, BJ et.al. have faced minimal or no consequences for their actions) - we can fish again (ignores relative importance of fishing vs the actually productive economy, disregards that EU is a big market for said fish) What do you suggest we engage with?
YeGoblynQueenne 2y ago
What lessons haven't been learned? Keir Starmer's Labour won the last UK elections by a landslide and the Tories got the boot. I do think your analysis oversimplifies a complex issue. I'm not ignoring that Starmer got elected by keeping his mouth shut and his hands behind his back, but the Tories' smash-mouth politics did not win the day anyway. What I can see from where I am is that Brexit was a very special case and it's all gone back to normal now.
- mytailorisrich 2y ago
  There was no landslide. Labour actually got fewer votes than at the previous election when it was by Corbyn! What happens is that Conservatives voters voted for someone else, mostly Reform UK. And the reasons have been the same as what's been festering since Brexit with the added factor that the Conservatives increased immigration to record level...
  - YeGoblynQueenne 2y ago
    Labour won with 411 seats (up 211 from 2019) and 33.3% of the popular vote (9,708,716 votes) vs. 121 seats for the Conservatives (down 251) and 23.7% of the popular vote (6,828,925 ). YMMV but I call a lead of 290 seats and 2,879,791 votes a landslide. It was the Lib Dems that seem to have taken most of the Tories' voters: 72 seats (up 64) and 3,519,143 votes. The latter at least checks out. Reform was up 1 seat from 2019 for 5 seats total. Not quite a big splash then. Labour also won big in Scotland against the SNP for the first time in years (but that was rather the fault of the SNP). Data from wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_United_Kingdom_general_election https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_United_Kingdom_general_el...
    - mytailorisrich 2y ago
      You're completely missing the point and where the votes went. Labour got 9,708,716 votes in 2024 vs 10,269,051 in 2019. Starmer and Labour did not convince voters adn lost votes to the Greens. What happened is that people did not vote for the Conservatives and instead voted Lib Dems and, especially, Reform UK, which got a massive 14% (3rd place and more than the Lib Dems). The Reform UK vote is because the Conservatives did not deliver on Brexit and even more importantly did the opposite of what they said on immigration, which reached record level. The number of seats to Labour is a result of the above (Conservatives dropped so Labour candidate was elected) not because people voted Labour more than before. The surge is Reform UK. So the same issues that have been at play in the Brexit referendum are still the key issues.

dutchCourage 2y ago

Was Kamalas campaign demeaning to the working class and alienating men? I was under the impression that the Dems were doing more for the working class, and that Trump was alienating women.

ruthmarx 2y ago
[flagged]
- abcd_f 2y ago
  Yep. Hence the recent push to kneecap the education in States - be it book bans, forced Bible studies or other eye-popping regressions. Watching this unfold across the pond was a bewildering experience.
  - ruthmarx 2y ago
    I would have thought young people having access to the internet would have allowed them to educate themselves and see through bullshit, but apparently not. I really do think this is the beginning of the end for the US. At least I have front row tickets to the show.
    - ks2048 2y ago
      I think this is the middle of the end. The beginning of the end was probably 2000-2001.
- synecdoche 2y ago
  Who are you calling uneducated? Just because your have an opinion doesn’t make you an authority on what people under other life conditions need to lead a successful life. Speak for yourself.
  - ruthmarx 2y ago
    > Just because your have an opinion doesn’t make you an authority on what people under other life conditions need to lead a successful life. That has nothing to do with anything. Every single person voting on the economy for Trump, blaming Biden for inflation is an example of a lack of education. Just for one example. There's a reason college educated people vote so differently to non college educated people on average.

ruthmarx 2y ago

[flagged]

jeffhuys 2y ago
The abortion thing is very much down to opinion. Also, why is bacteria life on mars but a clump of cells is not life on earth? ;p There's no winning this. That's why it's actually smart to let the states decide this - that way Trump has no say in it.
- John23832 2y ago
  > Also, why is bacteria life on mars but a clump of cells is not life on earth? ;p Because the bacteria on Mars would plausibly exist on it's own. On a different planet.
  - noworriesnate 2y ago
    A newborn can't exist on its own though. It needs to nurse, has to have someone change its diapers, etc.
    - John23832 2y ago
      >A newborn can't exist on its own though. It needs to nurse, has to have someone change its diapers, etc. A newborn by literal definition can exist on its own. It has been born. A newborn can breath, metabolize foods, and does not depend on being connected to another life giving organism. The more appropriate work you're looking for is "care". You need to care for a newborn for it to survive. You can provide care specifically for a newborn. You cannot specifically provide care for a fetus, you are providing care for the mother. I know all of this is falling on deaf ears though.
      - noworriesnate 2y ago
        The mother is providing care for the unborn child with her body. Seems like needing care vs. being unable to exist on its own is a distinction without a difference.

EricDeb 2y ago

Yea Kamala should not have been the candidate. She was tied to Biden who was associated with inflation which I think really decided this. I'm not sure the rest of your comment has that much to do with it

dkdbejwi383 2y ago
> She was tied to Biden who was associated with inflation which I think really decided this. What about the rest of the world who've also been experiencing the same? It's a very shortsighted take, and we've seen the same in the UK where Liz Truss 6 weeks as PM has taken the blame for global inflation in the court of popular opinion
- EricDeb 2y ago
  Of course, its not logical, but voters "feel" they were better under trump without realizing inflation was a global phenomenon. This was also a failure of Dem messaging.
theshrike79 2y ago
"Associated with" not "caused by". This is why we call Trump's voters "stupid", the US is still under Trump's tax plan until 1/2025. So if someone has an issue with taxes, it's not Biden's fault even though he is in office. I know this and I'm not even American
- iinnPP 2y ago
  Inflation and taxes are two different things.
  - vkou 2y ago
    Inflation was caused by the Covid stimulus of 2020, and the mountains of free money printed that year (which is why it hit the entire world - every government did the exact same thing). Last I checked, Biden wasn't president at the time...

rtpg 2y ago

I understand calling people stupid is not a strategy to convince someone. But it’s not like that is why someone votes for Trump, right? It’s maybe more of a way to disincentivize conversions back. I… really wish there had been a primary though. Biden deserves to be hated for the rest of his life for this (along with all of his other decision making)

selfmodruntime 2y ago
I wish there had been a primary, too. The DNC did a massive disservice to the American people.
- johnny22 2y ago
  there was no time to have a real primary with biden dropping out when he did if she still wanted to end up on ballots.
  - pessimizer 2y ago
    They should have had a primary instead of having a ritualistic anointing of Biden. The reason Biden had to drop out is because he was there when he shouldn't have been. I can vaguely understand fixing a primary for H. Clinton, but for Biden? One of the things Biden ran on in 2020 was a vague indication that he would leave after one term.
  - notnaut 2y ago
    Yes. It was Biden and his team’s decision to prop him up til it was too late.
  - drawkward 2y ago
    Biden promised to be a one term president, but his ego craved more power. He will go down along with RBG for helping hand democracy to fascists.
- ninkendo 2y ago
  There was a primary, Biden won it. Maybe you wanted a second primary after he stepped down? That would have been tough.

yladiz 2y ago

Which candidate was unwanted?

selfmodruntime 2y ago
Harris. She was dead last in the 2020 primary.
lupusreal 2y ago
The one that didn't win their primaries.

y7 2y ago

What I don't get is how the bar for the Democrats seems to be so much higher than for Trump. Sure, "the typical man" is more easily validated by Trump than Harris, but at the same time Trump says much worse things about women than Harris about men. I can see how the Harris seems more "elitist" in a way than Trump, but to me that seems like a subtle negative versus Trump's long list of very obvious flaws. How does the hatred for the Democrats get so big?

selfmodruntime 2y ago
Trump doesn't alienate a specific group of hardworking Americans who turn out to vote. The people who are turned off by him largely don't vote at all. > but at the same time Trump says much worse things about women than Harris about men One would think so, but Trump's talk about women is just how society in general talks about women. As sad as it is, women are used to that rhetoric. > How does the hatred for the Democrats get so big? Multiple high profile members of the Democratic Party actively demonize rural Americans and especially men.
- n4r9 2y ago
  You're saying that Trump won because US society is misogynistic?
  - selfmodruntime 2y ago
    In essence, yes. I'm saying that Trump's narrative on women is no worse than societies default. Women experience far worse things than macho talk. It takes more to alienate a lot of them.
    - n4r9 2y ago
      It feels like you're balancing two conflicting notions here: 1. Stop calling average people ignorant. 2. Average people are misogynistic.
      - 2y ago

tessierashpool9 2y ago

But Scholz, Esken and von der Leyen are really popular! Oh wait, we're talking US politics here, my bad ...

archagon 2y ago

This is all moot now. We have a far-right supermajority in government. America is fucked for the next few decades at the very least. The DNC is no longer relevant.

DiscourseFan 2y ago
[flagged]
carom 2y ago
Calling republicans far right is the exact rhetoric that alienates and divides people. Take the next four years to try to find some common ground with the right.
- archagon 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - nazka 2y ago
    Actually that statement shows exactly the political and societal problems there is today in the US. If people can’t even talk together and even get insulted it’s going to go even worst.
    - archagon 2y ago
      There is really no worse left to go.
      - nazka 2y ago
        Ho really? Did not history teach us everything that is happening today and can happen tomorrow ? It can go worst as in a civil war. To a full split of the country in x countries. Now I don’t think it will happen but saying it can’t go worst is both factually false and not anchored in reality
      - Spooky23 2y ago

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

lynx23 2y ago

I couldn't agree more. This "my political enemy is stupid" approach is very divisive and will not lead to good outcomes.

unrealhoang 2y ago
How come? Trump’s just won an election with it.
- camdenreslink 2y ago
  There does seem to be a real double standard here.
- lynx23 2y ago
  I realized the stupidity argument during covid first, and it all came from the left. So much contempt, a reason why I no longer can identify with liberals. In fact, I am disgusted by what I remember from 2020/21.

beeboobaa3 2y ago

[flagged]

happyraul 2y ago

If one handyman or one farmer or one trucker stopped working, no one would really care. If all CS researchers stopped working, I'd wager people would care, just as they would if handymen/farmers/truckers stopped working.

aziaziazi 2y ago
I thing OP point is that if the trucker stopped working people and businesses will be impacted that day (before he gets replaced, easy with trucker, not with labour). The impact will be more direct and tangible way than, say, a CS researcher not showing up this morning.

lqet 2y ago

> Quite the contrary, their job is far more important to society than mine. Non-american here, but I feel pretty much the same way. I also do niche research in computer science. People working in the supermarket, people driving trains and busses, medicine workers, construction workers, they all do work that is vastly more important to society than mine. A single educator in my child's kindergarten most likely does work that is orders of magnitude more important to society than mine is. Maybe this attitude comes from the fact that both of my parents never set a foot into higher education, but it is something I feel very strongly, and which is quite humbling. I remember my father predicting in the early 2000s that the academic elite was increasingly crippling the country by adding more and more non-pragmatic rules in seek of some idealistic utopia, and that they would lose the support of the masses pretty soon. As a young teenager, I did not believe him, and in my arrogance of youth, I also dismissed it as the ramblings of an uneducated worker. But sure enough, most of the things he feared back then turned out to come true.

patates 2y ago
> I also do niche research in computer science. People working in the supermarket, people driving trains and busses, medicine workers, construction workers, they all do work that is vastly more important to society than mine. Today, for sure. I think it's far more nuanced in the long term. Most of these jobs would be non-existent without the researchers of yesterday. Of course, if you disregard today completely for building the tomorrow, a lot of people who don't get access to wealth today will be pissed. Which is very roughly what's happening in the USA. "What we have now is perfect, and can sustain forever, stop with the progressive BS", chant the conservatives. It's a hard balance. Dems messed it up, Reps will mess it up further, I bet. I'm just observing from an another continent.
- selfmodruntime 2y ago
  > Most of these jobs would be non-existent without the researchers of yesterday The research of yesterday was on another level than most of what is done today. Not to say that it's worthless, pursuit of knowledge is always worth it.

abcd_f 2y ago

> Stop calling working people without a college education stupid and stop alienating men. Nobody is calling anyone stupid just because of the lack of education. However the lack of education makes people gullible and easy to manipulate. From bleach as a Covid remedy to marginal tax as a grave danger to working people - you don't have to go far for examples. And when someone does believe this sort of blatant bullshit, then, yeah, they don't come across as particularly bright individuals.

ttoinou 2y ago
Overeducated people are as much manipulable, but in a different way
- TheHypnotist 2y ago
  [flagged]
- slothtrop 2y ago
  I've seen research shared here that suggest that more education scales with more radical political beliefs and overconfidence, for both sides of the spectrum, not just left. So you're right. Though of course more people concentrated in cosmopolitan areas with liberal cultures means more educated people lean left.
nazgulsenpai 2y ago
> Nobody is calling anyone stupid just because of the lack of education. > However the lack of education makes people gullible and easy to manipulate. From bleach as a Covid remedy... You may not realize you said it, but you said it.
- ninkendo 2y ago
  So what is the takeaway here? When referring to trump supporters, follow the line of reasoning: - Trump floated bleach as a covid remedy - Bleach as a covid remedy is obviously stupid (we should both be agreeing on this one) - Trump supporters support such statements from trump - But pointing that out is "calling them stupid" and thus we shouldn't do it? I'm genuinely curious about this because it makes up so many discussions with trump supporters in a nut shell. I don't want to condescend to them, but I also shouldn't be pointing out things that genuinely are stupid about trump, because doing so would offend them too? What should I do, just pretend all the dumb things Trump does (and that his supporters support him for) don't exist? Just so I can find common ground? (I mean, strictly speaking this is exactly what I do in polite company with trump supporters. I just pretend all the really dumb shit doesn't exist and just talk to them about policy and stuff, and in the end I end up finding that we agree on 90% of stuff and we go on our way. And they continue to support trump for reasons I don't understand.)

YeGoblynQueenne 2y ago

This is an honest question, I'm not American, I don't live in the US and I genuinely don't know: how has Donald Trump served the interests of "working people without a college education" during the four years of his presidency? I'm also curious to know if the Democrats have done any different. In the interest of full disclosure I am totally guessing that neither did anything to materially improve the lives and fortunes of working-class Americans and neither Donald Trump will, nor would Kamala Harris. Working people in the US, as in the rest of the world seem to me to be shafted for good, by all sorts of economic forces that they have no control over. I'm speaking in this as a current academic but one-time unskilled, immigrant worker. It used to be that you could feed yourself and your family with "the sweat of your brow". Not any more. Who is working to change that?

bitcurious 2y ago
> how has Donald Trump served the interests of "working people without a college education" during the four years of his presidency? Uneducated working class folks compete with illegal immigrants for jobs and cheap housing. During his presidency illegal immigration was lower and wages rose for the working class and housing costs were relatively stable. He’s also positioned himself as the “law and order” candidate, and crime tends to impact the working class much more than the middle/upper classes. Mostly folks who voted for him voted on the premise that their experience of the economy was better when he was president rather than on the basis of individual policies.
- n4r9 2y ago
  > During his presidency illegal immigration was lower Is that true? Legal immigration was lower especially during the lockdown (for obvious reasons). But the number of deportations of illegal immigrants barely changed, e.g. https://www.cato.org/blog/president-trump-reduced-legal-immigration-he-did-not-reduce-illegal-immigration https://www.cato.org/blog/president-trump-reduced-legal-immi... > wages rose for the working class That happened. And it happened even faster under Biden. > He’s also positioned himself as the “law and order” candidate And yet the murder rate rose to the highest level since 1997. > their experience of the economy was better when he was president I feel like it might be more accurate to say "perception" than "experience".

stillold 2y ago

They all just voted against their own economic interests to win their culture war. Objectively, they are stupid, even the ones who went to college.

selfmodruntime 2y ago
On the contrary. The voted for their own economic interests and ignored the culture war. Economics was the number one issue.
- epakai 2y ago
  It was a reactionary response though. The fantasy of going back to low grocery prices is just that. Or are we actually going to pursue deflation? I don't see any policy there, just platitudes.
- llm_nerd 2y ago
  On every objective measure the US has the best economy it has had in...pretty much ever. So they voted for "their own economic interests" by voting in a guy with plans that every economist says will be absolutely disastrous and will not only massively spike unemployment, it will lead to far greater prices for American consumers. Trump's plan for grocery prices is to put massive tariffs on grocery imports and to deport millions of workers. There is no one with a functioning logic cortex who doesn't see the problem with this plan. But at least they can rest comfortably knowing that the Musks, Sacks and Bezos' of the world will get a killer tax break for their next yacht. American elections are the guy in the big suburban house complaining that filling up his F350 costs a little more than it did during COVID shutdowns and thinking that somehow the guy floating insane plans is going to fix it. It's bizarre.
  - selfmodruntime 2y ago
    > On every objective measure the US has the best economy it has had in...pretty much ever. Except the one metric that really counts: People can't afford their basic needs. > So they voted for "their own economic interests" by voting in a guy with plans that every economist says You mean leftside selected economists with their own agenda. > will be absolutely disastrous and will not only massively spike unemployment, it will lead to far greater prices for American consumers. He had the lowest unemployment numbers in decades.

llm_nerd 2y ago

I get and fully understand that many Americans are angry and want change, and they exercised their democratic right and pursued that change. We all need to respect that. Many things are not on the right path, and I have a feeling "DEI" and grievance farming is going to have a rough time ahead. And I get it: As a white male I honestly am tired of government being a tool to suppress white males. I am sick of living in a Western country that endlessly self-flagellates and acts like it needs to host the world in some act of contrition for success. Having said that, it's hard as an outsider to look at the things Trump is campaigning on and not see that as not just calling "non-educated" people stupid, but he is literally relying upon it. Either his voters are extremely ill-educated, or they simply don't believe a word he says and actually make his lying a feature of his candidacy. Either aren't great. When just about every economist says that the US economy -- quite literally the best economy on the planet -- is going to implode under the policies Trump has stated (even just the tariff proposal, not even getting into the crackpot "abolish the IRS and write on a piece of paper that crypto wipes out the debt", or Elon magically cutting 2/3rds of the federal budget, etc.), for people to then vote for Trump to "fix" the economy is not educated. Being isolationist in one of the greatest eras of peace in human history will not bring peace to Earth, it's literally guaranteed to bring war that will end up on your doorstep, etc. Nuclear non-proliferation dies with this election, and there are a lot of powers that existed under the US umbrella that are going to fire up a nuclear program, covertly or not. I fear that many Americans just have no idea how much they have to lose. There is a sense of comfort and complacency to assume that this is the baseline. But it isn't. It can get much, much worse, very quickly.

nodra 2y ago
Well said.
PeakKS 2y ago
I find a lot of his voters seem to respond to criticisms with "Oh don't worry, he's not actually going to do those things." I think your point about making his lying a feature of his candidacy is spot on. Here's to hoping that nothing ever happens.

otteromkram 2y ago

> Quite the contrary, their job is far more important to society than mine. I doubt it. Think about how connected the world is, you can't even apply for jobs without the internet. Both jobs are equally important. The main difference is that you can get started doing construction without many pre-qualifications, while a construction worker may take a year or more to get the basics of computer engineering down.

v7p1Qbt1im 2y ago

That‘s the fault of capitalism. Which the right supports even harder than the democratic party (which also completely supports it).

Molitor5901 2y ago

One more to the list: Stop trying to twist science into conforming to political or social will.

selfmodruntime 2y ago
Yes! I hate that. Also, "listen to the science" people are obnoxious. There are regular scandals of people in STEM faking their results for decades and I've seen garbage labelled as research more often than I can count. I do not trust political sciences or humanities at all. There is little to no valid method to most things they publish. And I'm not alone in that opinion in my circle.

braiamp 2y ago

That would be true if there was a change with that population. Right now the numbers are that Trump won with slightly less votes than when he lost in the 2020 elections; and Kamala lost with significantly less vote than Biden got in the 2020 elections. There are almost 20 million of voters that didn't show up on this year election that showed for the 2020.

guappa 2y ago

Eh, if ONE builder stops working nothing happens. Likewise if ALL researchers stop working… we don't feel it the next day, but it will be felt.