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Israel launched a dozen attacks on UN troops in Lebanon, says leaked report
- sershe 2y ago[flagged]
- dang 2y agoYou can't post flamewar comments like this to HN or use the site primarily for ideological battle—it's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. We have to ban accounts that post like this, so please don't do it again. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and sticking to the rules when posting here, we'd appreciate it.
- sershe 2y agoI understand my comment was made in anger, but where is the ideological battle? I am trying to ask people to discuss non-tech-related politics elsewhere, as per guidelines. How else am I supposed to do that? Flagging doesn't work, politically inclined people just unflag it. The parent post is the definition of off-topic; if you won't delete it, maybe you need a new guideline, where in garbage posts like this garbage comments like mine are allowed then? :D I think a good approach would be if posts like this were allowed to accumulate comments and then deleted completely, destroying all the dubious "contribution" and thus disincentivising it? I do hate both ideologies fwiw; as applied to HN however, only one tends to create and promote off-topic political posts like this, or at least I never see the other kind of garbage in the RSS feed.
- dang 2y ago"Dear butt-hurt lefties" is about as clear a marker of ideological battle as exists! Now that I read your comment more closely I see that you intended it differently than I thought. I'm sorry I didn't get it right the first time. On the other hand, the way you phrased it guaranteed that a lot of readers (like me) wouldn't get it right, so I'd say the expected value* of the comment remains negative even though you intended it more positively than that. * https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20%22expected%20value%22%20subthread&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
- zhengiszen 2y ago[flagged]
- vaidhy 2y agoWhat are the repercussions? If there is no reaction from the international community, did this action really happen?
- decremental 2y ago[dead]
- tstrimple 2y agoEvery reaction from the international community is vetoed by the United States of America. A veto power it has used on behalf of Israel to protect it from international scrutiny more than it has for literally any other country on earth. Over half of all US vetoes in the Security Council have been on behalf of Israel. https://globalaffairs.org/bluemarble/how-us-has-used-its-power-un-support-israel-decades https://globalaffairs.org/bluemarble/how-us-has-used-its-pow... > The U.S. has vetoed resolutions critical of Israel more than any other council member – 45 times as of December 18, 2023, according to an analysis by Blue Marble. The U.S. has vetoed 89 Security Council resolutions in total since 1945, meaning slightly over half of its vetoes have been used on resolutions critical of Israel. Of the vetoed resolutions, 33 pertained to the Israeli occupation of Palestinian territories or the country’s treatment of the Palestinian people. > The first time the U.S. used its veto to support Israel was in September of 1972, when it vetoed a resolution that called on Israel to cease its aggression in Lebanon.
- dragonwriter 2y agoThere's a mechanism for bypassing the Security Council by the GA during deadlocks caused by vetoes (Emergency Special Sessions convened under Uniting for Peace—5 of the 11 convened so far have concerned the Arab/Israeli conflict, including one of the two that is currently open, which is now on its 27th year), but no combination of countries otherwise willing to act to constrain the conflict has the capacity to effectively act against both Iran and its proxies and the Israel (directly) backed by the US.
- cma 2y ago
- neonate 2y agohttps://archive.ph/o7atF https://archive.ph/o7atF
- Sabinus 2y ago"Israel has also said that UN forces are being used as a human shield by Hizbollah fighters, which it is fighting near several Unifil posts along the border. It has demanded the UN evacuate its peacekeepers from southern Lebanon for their own safety. Unifil, and the 50 countries that contribute troops to its ranks, have unanimously refused." Why aren't the UN troops keeping the peace? Did they let Hezbollah fire rockets into Israel unimpeded? What is the point of the troops being there?
- campl3r 2y ago[flagged]
- nielsbot 2y agoIt's all on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Interim_Force_in_Lebanon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Interim_Force_i...
- pimpampum 2y agoIsrael has lied repeatedly countless times, like the tunnels under hospitals that never show up, or when they say the didn't kill the journalists they did end up admitting to. Or the claims of rape and beheaded babies that were all fake. You can not take anything they say as serious.
- mlazos 2y agoI love how their rationale for blowing up a hospital is that there were tunnels underneath it. As if that’s justification for blowing up a hospital.
- tdeck 2y agoThen thre's the time a former Israeli PM admitted they build the "bunker" under Al Shifa. Whoops. If anyone had been paying attention or properly reporting on that, it might have looked bad. https://www.newsweek.com/israel-built-bunker-shifa-hospital-ehud-barak-1845518 https://www.newsweek.com/israel-built-bunker-shifa-hospital-...
- Qem 2y agoAt this point the country should be suspended from UN, like Apartheid SA was before, in 1974. See https://www.nytimes.com/1974/11/13/archives/south-africa-is-suspended-by-un-assembly-9122-un-session-barssouth.html https://www.nytimes.com/1974/11/13/archives/south-africa-is-...
- libertine 2y agoThe UN is in need of serious reform. For example, it's hard to comprehend how a country like Russia is not suspended? A country which signed the Charter, and is member of the security council, is trying to annex a country of 40 million people, claiming they and their culture don't exist. They don't even hide the genocide intent, and yet Guterres is visiting the BRICS conference in Russia legitimizing the regime. Despicable.
- throw310822 2y agoWhatever Russia is doing pales in comparison with what Israel has done for the past 70 years.
- Teever 2y agoAnd if you compare what Russia has done in the same time frame?
- throw310822 2y agoOh well. We certainly didn't help it doing it or gave it diplomatic support, in any case. Besides, ethnic cleansing and genocide are their own special kind of evil- I'm not sure Russia is guilty also of that.
- stouset 2y agoPutin’s Russia is quite literally guilty of ethnic cleansing, and not only with Ukrainians.
- 2y ago
- leoh 2y agoPart of the story here, really, is that the UN has been co-opted by Hezbollah in Lebanon. Another part of the story is: where was the UN when Hezbollah launched rockets from Lebanon this week? Unless the UN starts doing serious counter-terrorism, Israel is not going to particularly care about their presence in Lebanon.
- erentz 2y agoHezbollah has launched over 10,000 rockets at Israel since Oct 7 last year. While under the watch of the UN. But apparently Israel is supposed to just do nothing about it and accept it going on for as long as Hezbollah likes. Absolutely no other country on this planet would. So many people seem to have a special set of double standards they apply to Israel for some reason.
- swaits 2y agoThis times 10^6. Nicely said. There is a staggering amount of ignorance present in the other comments here. I was ignorant too. But I spent a good amount of time educating myself this year. I hope others do the same so they can make completely informed assessments. I worry about tribalism and politics driving too much of the thinking.
- krunck 2y agoWhich attack came first? Who is responding to who? It just doesn't matter any more. Hezbollah and Israel need to calm the fuck down. And one more thing. I get to criticize the living fuck out of Israel because as an American I am paying for most of it's weapons.
- lostmsu 2y ago> Which attack came first? Who is responding to who? It just doesn't matter any more. As a fellow taxpayer, fuck no. As the initiator, Hezbollah can stop shooting the rockets at any moment, give up the Oct 2023 attackers and everyone actively involved. I don't see why that wouldn't stop Israel from going further. This can not work for Israel, because they are responsible for bringing these fucks to justice.
- halista 2y ago[flagged]
- cutler 2y ago[flagged]
- rendall 2y agoIsrael has a pretty compelling argument. I wish the article had mentioned it. That they did not leads me to believe the article is biased. The argument goes like this: UNIFIL had one mission, which was to disarm and disband any military force in Lebanon south of the Litani River that was not Lebanon's army. UNIFIL has not done this. This is known and well-documented. Hezbollah regularly fires rockets and missiles into Israel. Hezbollah has built bunkers within sight of UNIFILs own posts. If true, this is not only a clear, systemic failure of their mission, but such an egregious failure that their presence is actually dangerous to civilians.
- sangnoir 2y ago> UNIFIL has not done this. ...and therefore they deserve to be shot at, maimed or killed?
- rendall 2y ago>> UNIFIL has not done this. >...and therefore they deserve to be shot at, maimed or killed? You quoted the wrong part. Here, let me fix that for you. >> If true, this is not only a clear, systemic failure of their mission, but such an egregious failure that their presence is actually dangerous to civilians. >...and therefore they deserve to be shot at, maimed or killed? There. That's better. Now I can properly answer. In my opinion, no, of course not. However, in light of their failure to accomplish their mission, and actually hindering peace, Israel asked them to leave. They did not. They have chosen to remain in an active war zone. So, "deserve" doesn't really come into play.
- cutler 2y agoI suppose, by the same measure, that you approve of Israel's recent directive to the residents of northern Gaza to leave, for the nth time, or be considered a target?
- sangnoir 2y ago> However, in light of their failure to accomplish their mission, and actually hindering peace, Israel asked them to leave. Asked them to leave a whole other country, that is not Israel or Israeli territory. Would this be reasonable to you if it were Ethiopia asking UN troops to leave Eritrean territory for failure to keep the peace, while there are active skirmishes between the 2 countries? This is an astounding ask for any country, and an affront to any semblence of a "rules-based order"
- id00 2y agoIs that the same UN that has its secretary-general António Guterres shaking hands with Putin and Lukashenko this week? Let's be honest, UN is one of the most useless organization in the world (and been for a while, look at history of their Africa operations). By now their presense on ground with inability to actually do anything or help anybody is a liability (eg can't stop Hezbollah from launching rockets and using them as a shield)
- catlikesshrimp 2y agoThey being there has been informative. We know of israel attacking UN bases. We are yet to see Hezbolla militants holding white hats at gunpoint. Or at least hiding in a tunnel under a UN base
- rendall 2y agoThere have been thousands rockets fired from southern Lebanon into Israel. So, Israel doesn't need permission from the UN or the international community or the US to invade and take out Hezbollah. Certainly not UNIFIL, who have been entirely useless as peace keepers.
- rendall 2y ago> Or at least hiding in a tunnel under a UN base You should balance your news consumption, because here is a terror tunnel within view of a UNIFIL observation center: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KPLphHpQfA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KPLphHpQfA This nonsense has been going on for years: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rpCIMs0Xpo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rpCIMs0Xpo
- catlikesshrimp 2y agoThanks for the links. Unfortunately, the telegraph is not a serious source of information (visit the frontpage anytime for proof). The other video is even worse. I personally wait until CNN publishes such information. It is the only Israel biased news source I deem above fakenews.
- okokhacker 2y agoHN posts about this used to be 99% Pro-Zionist. There’s been a marked shift in opinion (or less bots) and I’m very, very glad that people are recognising the extent of war crimes being committed by Israel.
- cutler 2y agoMaybe it's because social media has relayed the truth and Israel can no longer use its grip on western media to conceal its atrocities.
- leoh 2y ago[flagged]
- niemandhier 2y agoUnlikely, I sampled the hn users in this discussion. Most are a few years old, and have karma. Hn is not important enough to warrant a multi year psyops, so these are probably actual humans.
- leoh 2y agoThat’s not what I was suggesting.
- edanm 2y agoMaybe. Worth considering that in terms of relative size, Israel has a population of 10 million, Jews in the world number ~14 million. Whereas the Arab world, which tends to be relatively anti-Israel, numbers ~220 million. And Muslims, which tend to be anti-Israel as well, number 1.2 billion. So just in terms of number of voices, the natural pro-Israel voices [1] are vastly outnumbered by the natural anti-Israel voices. Think about how this impacts what you hear, how this impacts the votes in the UN (which is not democratic but votes are by country), how this impacts economic reactions (number of consumers), etc. [1] This is a sweeping generalization, but it is statistically true that Jews are usually pro-Israel and Arabs and Muslims are usually anti-Israel. With other religions/ethnicities it's more complicated.
- aussieguy1234 2y ago[flagged]
- cutler 2y agoAlthough you rightly condemn the IDF's terrorist origins, you fall into the trap of labelling genuine resistance movements as terrorist. Was the French Resistance a terrorist organisation? Or the Polish Resistance? Given the brutal occupation executed by Israel in Palestine why is armed resistance, in your eyes, taboo? This is not a football match between two equal sides. This is, and always has been, asymetric warfare where one side is armed to the teeth by the west. Where is Hezbollah's air force? Or its tanks?
- rendall 2y agoYou have it precisely inverted. Hezbollah, Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood are not "freedom fighters". They are a supremacist, revanchist, Islamist movement hiding behind the notion of "occupation", funded by the government of Iran. The French and Polish resistance movements in WWII aimed to liberate their countries from Nazi occupation and restore legitimate governments, operating with support from the Allied forces as part of a recognized war effort. Their tactics targeted military objectives, respecting international humanitarian laws. In contrast, Hezbollah and Hamas have broader ideological goals, including regional control and, for Hamas, the eradication of Israel, using tactics such as rocket attacks and civilian-targeted violence, which violate international law. Unlike WWII resistance fighters who returned to civilian life post-conflict, Hezbollah and Hamas retain military power within their political structures, acting as armed entities beyond immediate defense. Hezbollah and Hamas are internationally designated as terrorist organizations, unlike the WWII resistance movements, which had legitimate standing under international law.
- leoh 2y agoI have been flagged in this thread by merely re-iterating points mentioned in the Financial Times article. @dang — I doubt you’ll see this, but I would appreciate some help. This is pretty sad.
- rendall 2y agoMe too, for giving context that the article elided. Flagging is supposed to mean "breaks guidelines" not "disagrees with my outlook". Strange that this is the only topic that inspires such zeal.
- timeon 2y agoNot sure what ware you writing about in this thread. But this does happen in other topics as well.
- rendall 2y agoThis was flagged. Whether you're pro- or anti-, be honest: does this contravene any guidelines? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41941235 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41941235
- dunefox 2y ago[flagged]
- KikoHeit 2y ago[flagged]
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- aristofun 2y agoI’m curious what’s exactly UN troops doing there? And why they keep closing blind eye on the largest terrorist army in the world violating UN’s own agreements? Also I wonder who benefits from them intentionally not moving out of harms ways and preventing israel from doing _their_ job of eliminating terrorists? Genuine questions, not taking any sides.
- rendall 2y agoReasonable questions. I wish I had answers.
- s1artibartfast 2y agoTheir remit for the last 20 years has been to support the Lebanese government in disarming Hezbollah. Israel is not Lebanon. The sad truth is that Lebanon never went to disarm Hezbollah and the UN didn't care. However, UNIFIL also wants to keep Israel out of Lebanon and track their intrusions. This brought UNIFIL and Israel into conflict
- aristofun 2y agoWhy do you think unifil is so crazy about israel even if they’re doing their jod for free?
- s1artibartfast 2y agothey have multiple jobs. 1) help disarm Hezbollah, 2) make sure Israel stays out of Lebanon. The area is supposed to be a DMZ and is a warzone instead. Israel's presence highlights the hollow promises and lies of the UN mediated ceasefire that ended the 2006 Lebanon-Israel war.
- aristofun 2y agoThey failed 1. Which left israel no choice. And now why don’t they use israel help to rix 1? Which would then lead to 2 naturally.
- thebytefairy 2y agoIt's fascinating to read multiple comments openly justifying attacks on the UN, saying that if they haven't stopped hezbollah themselves that they are the same as terrorists. Even among this group of generally logical mathematical thinkers, reason is left by the wayside when identity is involved.
- s1artibartfast 2y agoThese "attacks" amount to whining, speculation, and exaggeration. UN soldiers were exposed to smoke in an active warzone. what exactly were they expecting? Same with driving a tank through a gate for cover during a firefight. There is a clear slant to how the majority of these stories are conveyed. There are probably some real attacks too. that's part of war, its messy.