9 ms·

It's funny how we went from "it's impossible for a computer to write meaningful code by itself" to "yawn, another one of these" in like 2 years.

by M4v3R 2y ago

tomrod 2y ago
It's still not great at complexity. Though autocompletion does have some cool outputs.
- thierrydamiba 2y ago
  Runtime complexity or complex as in difficult problems?
- onion2k 2y ago
  It's still not great at complexity. That's a feature, not a bug. Complexity is something to avoid.
  - 7thpower 2y ago
    Sometimes great products require bugs, I guess. Being able to tackle complex tasks is still a real challenge for the current models and approaches and not all problems can be solved with elegant solutions.
  - mvdtnz 2y ago
    How would you suggest writing something like.... say... Photoshop or Chrome, without introducing any complexity? How about an optimising compiler or better yet something behind the firewall like a medical imaging device or financial trading software? Complexity is inherent in many problem spaces.
  - curtisblaine 2y ago
    unnecessary completely is something to avoid. Inherent complexity is something to embrace. We're trained to remove unnecessary complexity so much that sometimes we think we can remove all complexity. That's a fallacy. Sometimes, things are just complex.
  - root_axis 2y ago
    Most problems that software tries to solve are complex.
- leptons 2y ago
  Copilot knows what I want to console.log almost before I do. I like that aspect of it. It also gets it wrong sometimes, which is kind of dumb, especially when I just copied the variable name to my clipboard. It should know.
  - tomrod 2y ago
    Of course. It doesn't handle complexity well. console.log inputs are usually not a cognitively complex object (especially if it reads current errors and variables)
HaZeust 2y ago
I said this last year[1] and still FIRMLY believe it: "It's even crazier to me that we've just... Accepted it, and are in the process of taking it for granted. This type of technology was a moonshot 2 years ago, and many experts didn't expect it in the lifetimes of ANYONE here - and who knew the answer was increasing transformers and iterating attention? And golly, there are a LOT of nay-sayers of the industry. I've even heard some folks on podcasts and forums saying this will be as short-lived and as meaningless as NFTs. NFTs couldn't re-write my entire Python codebase into Go, NFTs weren't ever close to passing the bar or MCAT. This stuff is crazy!" 1 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37879730 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37879730
- iwontberude 2y ago
  Nay-sayers are taking it for granted because it’s not what the they expected or wanted. It’s not some flippant inability to have gratitude. Since you brought it up, when JFK said we would put a man on the moon by the end of the decade, the expectation was succinct and understood. There has been so much goal post moving and hand waving that we aren’t talking about the same expectations anymore.
  - HaZeust 2y ago
    Well, that's too bad - isn't it? The world will sometimes change before your very eyes, and you'll sometimes be in a group that's affected at the forefront. C'est la vie - never become too comfortable that you stifle your ability to be an early adopter!
    - iwontberude 2y ago
      I don’t have a strong preference either way, so far I am open minded but I am dispassionate and try not to let my ego get in the way of myself.
- SubiculumCode 2y ago
  I am not a professional coder, being in research I do not need to think about scaling my code as most of it is one and done on whatever problem I am working on at the moment. For me, this is a lot about stringing a bunch of neuroimaging tools together to transform data in ways I want, LLMs have been fantastic. Instead of spending 20 minutes coding it, its often 0-shot visit to Claude...especially when its a relatively simple python task e.g. iterate through directories of images, inspect these json, move those files over here, build this job, submit. Its not ground breaking code, but the LLM builds it faster than I would, and it does what I need it to do. Its been a 20x or more multiplier for me when it comes to one aspect of my work.
foobarqux 2y ago
If what you said were actually true in a practical sense there would have been a perceptible revolution in products and services. There hasn't been.
- IggleSniggle 2y ago
  I have no idea if you're correct about this or not. With 8 billion people in the world, and a significant number of those people working as "intelligent agents," how would you perceive the difference?
  - max_streese 2y ago
    GDP?
  - Exoristos 2y ago
    So your contention is, the larger the trend, the less perceptible?
    - IggleSniggle 2y ago
      My contention is how would you perceive the difference between a needle in a haystack and a thread-puller in a haystack
  - seoulmetro 2y ago
    If you think the revolution starts with 8 billion people you're just plain wrong. It starts with the first world and is very perceivable. How did we perceive cars replacing horses? Well for one they were replaced in the first world... now imagine how fast a piece of software can change reality. It's not there yet, and you can't perceive it because so.
    - IggleSniggle 2y ago
      When exactly did you perceive cars replacing the horse? I happen to live in a very equestrian area; I think you'd be hard pressed to convince folks that the horses have even been replaced
jsheard 2y ago
I think we have different definitions of meaningful code, most of these are pulling in an NPM package which practically completes the given task by itself. For example the "YAML to JSON converter" uses js-yaml... which parses YAML and outputs a Javascript object that can be trivially serialized to JSON. The core of that "project" is literally two lines of code after importing that library. const jsonObj = jsyaml.load(yamlText); const jsonText = JSON.stringify(jsonObj, null, 2); Don't get me wrong, if you want to convert YAML to JSON then using a battle tested library is the way to do it, but Claude doesn't deserve a round of applause for stating the blaringly obvious.
betaby 2y ago
YAML to JSON literally has `script src="https://cdnjs.cloudflare.com/ajax/libs/js-yaml/4.1.0/js-yaml.min.js https://cdnjs.cloudflare.com/ajax/libs/js-yaml/4.1.0/js-yaml...`. I don't see how went anywhere judging from examples.
beepbooptheory 2y ago
I think its great we have had two years of huge enthusiasm and hype, just because in these many threads you see how much happiness it has inspired. But eventually, for most of us, it will soon become important to start getting a little more antagonistic to all this. Just really at the at end of the day to be able successfully keep navigating the world and our thoughts. There is an awesome power and innovation to the entire of edifice of targeted advertising. The first time, perhaps, we were all "suggested" something that was in fact quite relevant, was in its own way a giddy-inspiring moment. But we have learned to hate it, not even considering the externalities it brings. Just always remember: if you are paying for it, its not your friend!
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

It's funny how we went from "it's impossible for a computer to write meaningful code by itself" to "yawn, another one of these" in like 2 years.

by M4v3R 2y ago

It's funny how we went from "it's impossible for a computer to write meaningful code by itself" to "yawn, another one of these" in like 2 years.

tomrod 2y ago

It's still not great at complexity. Though autocompletion does have some cool outputs.

thierrydamiba 2y ago
Runtime complexity or complex as in difficult problems?
onion2k 2y ago
It's still not great at complexity. That's a feature, not a bug. Complexity is something to avoid.
- 7thpower 2y ago
  Sometimes great products require bugs, I guess. Being able to tackle complex tasks is still a real challenge for the current models and approaches and not all problems can be solved with elegant solutions.
- mvdtnz 2y ago
  How would you suggest writing something like.... say... Photoshop or Chrome, without introducing any complexity? How about an optimising compiler or better yet something behind the firewall like a medical imaging device or financial trading software? Complexity is inherent in many problem spaces.
- curtisblaine 2y ago
  unnecessary completely is something to avoid. Inherent complexity is something to embrace. We're trained to remove unnecessary complexity so much that sometimes we think we can remove all complexity. That's a fallacy. Sometimes, things are just complex.
- root_axis 2y ago
  Most problems that software tries to solve are complex.
leptons 2y ago
Copilot knows what I want to console.log almost before I do. I like that aspect of it. It also gets it wrong sometimes, which is kind of dumb, especially when I just copied the variable name to my clipboard. It should know.
- tomrod 2y ago
  Of course. It doesn't handle complexity well. console.log inputs are usually not a cognitively complex object (especially if it reads current errors and variables)

HaZeust 2y ago

I said this last year[1] and still FIRMLY believe it: "It's even crazier to me that we've just... Accepted it, and are in the process of taking it for granted. This type of technology was a moonshot 2 years ago, and many experts didn't expect it in the lifetimes of ANYONE here - and who knew the answer was increasing transformers and iterating attention? And golly, there are a LOT of nay-sayers of the industry. I've even heard some folks on podcasts and forums saying this will be as short-lived and as meaningless as NFTs. NFTs couldn't re-write my entire Python codebase into Go, NFTs weren't ever close to passing the bar or MCAT. This stuff is crazy!" 1 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37879730 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37879730

iwontberude 2y ago
Nay-sayers are taking it for granted because it’s not what the they expected or wanted. It’s not some flippant inability to have gratitude. Since you brought it up, when JFK said we would put a man on the moon by the end of the decade, the expectation was succinct and understood. There has been so much goal post moving and hand waving that we aren’t talking about the same expectations anymore.
- HaZeust 2y ago
  Well, that's too bad - isn't it? The world will sometimes change before your very eyes, and you'll sometimes be in a group that's affected at the forefront. C'est la vie - never become too comfortable that you stifle your ability to be an early adopter!
  - iwontberude 2y ago
    I don’t have a strong preference either way, so far I am open minded but I am dispassionate and try not to let my ego get in the way of myself.
SubiculumCode 2y ago
I am not a professional coder, being in research I do not need to think about scaling my code as most of it is one and done on whatever problem I am working on at the moment. For me, this is a lot about stringing a bunch of neuroimaging tools together to transform data in ways I want, LLMs have been fantastic. Instead of spending 20 minutes coding it, its often 0-shot visit to Claude...especially when its a relatively simple python task e.g. iterate through directories of images, inspect these json, move those files over here, build this job, submit. Its not ground breaking code, but the LLM builds it faster than I would, and it does what I need it to do. Its been a 20x or more multiplier for me when it comes to one aspect of my work.

foobarqux 2y ago

If what you said were actually true in a practical sense there would have been a perceptible revolution in products and services. There hasn't been.

IggleSniggle 2y ago
I have no idea if you're correct about this or not. With 8 billion people in the world, and a significant number of those people working as "intelligent agents," how would you perceive the difference?
- max_streese 2y ago
  GDP?
- Exoristos 2y ago
  So your contention is, the larger the trend, the less perceptible?
  - IggleSniggle 2y ago
    My contention is how would you perceive the difference between a needle in a haystack and a thread-puller in a haystack
- seoulmetro 2y ago
  If you think the revolution starts with 8 billion people you're just plain wrong. It starts with the first world and is very perceivable. How did we perceive cars replacing horses? Well for one they were replaced in the first world... now imagine how fast a piece of software can change reality. It's not there yet, and you can't perceive it because so.
  - IggleSniggle 2y ago
    When exactly did you perceive cars replacing the horse? I happen to live in a very equestrian area; I think you'd be hard pressed to convince folks that the horses have even been replaced

jsheard 2y ago

I think we have different definitions of meaningful code, most of these are pulling in an NPM package which practically completes the given task by itself. For example the "YAML to JSON converter" uses js-yaml... which parses YAML and outputs a Javascript object that can be trivially serialized to JSON. The core of that "project" is literally two lines of code after importing that library. const jsonObj = jsyaml.load(yamlText); const jsonText = JSON.stringify(jsonObj, null, 2); Don't get me wrong, if you want to convert YAML to JSON then using a battle tested library is the way to do it, but Claude doesn't deserve a round of applause for stating the blaringly obvious.

betaby 2y ago

YAML to JSON literally has `script src="https://cdnjs.cloudflare.com/ajax/libs/js-yaml/4.1.0/js-yaml.min.js https://cdnjs.cloudflare.com/ajax/libs/js-yaml/4.1.0/js-yaml...`. I don't see how went anywhere judging from examples.

beepbooptheory 2y ago

I think its great we have had two years of huge enthusiasm and hype, just because in these many threads you see how much happiness it has inspired. But eventually, for most of us, it will soon become important to start getting a little more antagonistic to all this. Just really at the at end of the day to be able successfully keep navigating the world and our thoughts. There is an awesome power and innovation to the entire of edifice of targeted advertising. The first time, perhaps, we were all "suggested" something that was in fact quite relevant, was in its own way a giddy-inspiring moment. But we have learned to hate it, not even considering the externalities it brings. Just always remember: if you are paying for it, its not your friend!

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]