7 ms·

Isn't flossing not supported by science also, but all the news articles said you should keep flossing?

by kart23 2y ago

washadjeffmad 2y ago
That's one of those statements, like a natural empiricist saying they don't believe in the big bang, that people tend to latch onto and run with without stopping to evaluate. Flossing daily isn't necessary if you're an adequate manual brusher. Relatively few people are adequate manual brushers. Buy a good electric toothbrush, floss periodically.
- xyst 2y ago
  > floss periodically I used to do this periodically because I hated doing it. But as a result, plaque would build up. Especially on the front bottom incisors. Eventually added it to my daily routine after the nth time being told to floss daily. And now my dental cleanings are more like spot checks. I suppose it’s anecdotal and unique to everyone though. Something about mouth flora.
  - IIsi50MHz 2y ago
    But…flossy daily is literally flossing periodically. Or did you mean you used to do an unspecified longer period? Or aperiodically?
    - IIsi50MHz 2y ago
      flossing*
- MetaWhirledPeas 2y ago
  > Flossing daily isn't necessary if you're an adequate manual brusher. Anecdote. I went my whole life not-flossing, having occasional procedures until every molar had work done to it. I started flossing daily and the need for procedures stopped.
rootusrootus 2y ago
Yes, flossing cannot be proven to help. But it cannot be proven to hurt, either, so current recommendations are to do it anyway.
- krackers 2y ago
  >cannot be proven to hurt Inserting floss between your teeth pushes them slightly apart. I wonder if that could have any negatives?
  - bsmith 2y ago
    Considering orthodontic treatments, no. I imagine you could damage the connective tissues under the gums though.
- camgunz 2y ago
  You can say the exact same thing about eating a blank piece of paper twice a day. Pascal's wager is no way to live life.
- Barrin92 2y ago
  >But it cannot be proven to hurt, either, so current recommendations are to do it anyway. That's not a meaningful standard for any health intervention. If I'd apply everything to my body that wasn't proven to hurt I'd spend a hundred bucks every morning and two hours in the bathroom. If "it doesn't hurt" was sufficient basis for a recommendation our doctors would tell us to swallow homeopathic medicine every morning. It seems pretty obvious that anything you apply has to have at least some measurable impact, otherwise you're basically in the same category as the supplement industry.
  - mikedelfino 2y ago
    I'm inclined to believe that preventing food particles from rotting between my teeth is a measurable impact in itself, regardless of whether it directly impacts my health.
lesuorac 2y ago
Perhaps you'll find it useful that a double-blind study found no improvement in outcome from use of a parachute when jumping out of a helicopter. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC300808/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC300808/
- hervature 2y ago
  That's not at all what that "study" says. It is a critique (in poor taste if you ask me) that everything does not require a double-blind study.
  - mlyle 2y ago
    > It is a critique (in poor taste if you ask me) that everything does not require a double-blind study. I think the real point is that systemic reviews often will have a pretty tilted set of included studies, because they are influenced by what things researchers choose to study. Indeed, you probably couldn't publish a study saying that parachutes work; it's not an interesting enough finding for publication. So the only stuff you'll find, in many cases, are studies that buck the prevailing wisdom.
  - marcosdumay 2y ago
    IMO, it's a critique on the "no study shows it exists, therefore it doesn't exist" attitude. If you manage to do double-blind studies for every single piece of knowledge out there, kudos for you. There's nothing bad in this. Anyway, it's on topic for several sidelines people are raising. But not on topic for the main article.
- underbiding 2y ago
  the studies are about outcomes of parachute use writ-large ("gravitational challenges"), not just helicopters. Only reason I'm being pedantic here is because if the study was in-fact looking at parachutes from helicopters, it could actually be plausible that parachutes had no improvements when used with helicopters. Most, if not all pilots, don't wear parachutes because there's not enough time to jump out of a crashing helicopter to deploy one and the blades would probably hit you anyway (unlike a plane which you could glide for some time, helicopters are notoriously more likely to fall straight like a brick)
flossmaster 2y ago
My most recent trip to the dentist include a brief recommendation to floss, but they weren't really pushing it like they used to.
criddell 2y ago
If flossing lowers the risk of certain types of gum disease and certain types of gum disease are associated with Alzheimer’s, then maybe flossing is (indirectly) good for your brain. https://www.health.harvard.edu/mind-and-mood/good-oral-health-may-help-protect-against-alzheimers https://www.health.harvard.edu/mind-and-mood/good-oral-healt...
- alliao 2y ago
  the whole Alzheimers field recently got turned upside down... not sure how to assess them anymore... https://www.science.org/content/article/research-misconduct-finding-neuroscientist-eliezer-masliah-papers-under-suspicion https://www.science.org/content/article/research-misconduct-...
  - moi2388 2y ago
    If you follow news in France, it’s been shown and been shown in court cases that certain pesticides, commonly used in wine farming, cause Alzheimer’s and Parkinson’s. They have much higher rates of these diseases, and recently in a court case the death of a farmers daughter has been shown to be caused by these pesticides.
    - initplus 2y ago
      Court isn't the place for scientific inquiry into these issues. It's just not setup for it. French courts have also found in favor of "electrosensitivity" issues.
- m463 2y ago
  I thought it was gum disease and heart disease?
pushupentry1219 2y ago
Completely anecdotal but my gums flare up and just feel disgusting when I don't floss for too long. I don't do the dentist recommended 2/week but if I stop flossing for over a month I notice significant decrease in my gum health. It becomes excruciatingly painful to brush and this stage and my mouth is full of blood afterwards. So I'm sticking to flossing pretty often now.
- meowster 2y ago
  That does not sound normal.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- meowster 2y ago
  You might be going at it too hard. Please see a dentist or get a second opinion from another dentist. According to my dentist, you can damage your gums by brushing them too hard. I don't floss so he didn't address that, but in both methods, force is being applied to delicate tissue. The point of brushing and flossing is to remove food particles. You don't have to abuse your teeth or gums to do that.
  - pushupentry1219 2y ago
    I have been told by him not to brush too hard. And i dont brush hard. But the issue is not related to my brushing. What I meant with the blood was; First I don't floss for a month. Then what looks like gingivitis shows up. And when I brush (normally -- not hard) after this, the sites that have the gingivitis bleed and are extremely painful. If I don't floss my dentist notices immediately and tells me to floss more often because there's food and shit in there, hence why I tend to floss.
caseyy 2y ago
It's one of those things which people endlessly argue about, but once one flosses once or twice, the rotting bits of food in between their teeth become very unappealing to them.
askvictor 2y ago
That story is because no-one had thought to study it so there was no scientific evidence that it made any difference. Not that a study had found it made no difference.
krageon 2y ago
It's like when I researched whether an electric toothbrush is better: All the studies say it's not, assuming you're a good brusher. You're probably not. For bad brushers and people that can't manipulate the toothbrush properly for whatever reason, an electric toothbrush gets them to the same performance.
zupa-hu 2y ago
My partner is an orthodontist. (That’s a specialization within dentistry.) I’m a software engineer btw. The saying goes that you only need to floss the teeth you want to keep. If you think about it, a toothbrush will only clean 3 sides of a tooth. Top, outer side, inner side. Not the 2 sides facing neighbour teeth. How on earth is it very important to clean those 3 sides but not the remaining 2? That just doesn’t make sense. If you think flossing is not useful, to be coherent, you must believe toothbrushing is not useful. On the flip side, learn how to do flossing right to not hurt your gums. The floss must follow the shape of the tooth, and not be straight. (Ie. move along a U path.) Flossing in a straight line does more harm then good.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
skybrian 2y ago
Anecdotally, my gums used to bleed fairly easily (like during a dental cleaning) and they don’t anymore since flossing somewhat more regularly. So I think you can judge this by how dental cleanings go.

Isn't flossing not supported by science also, but all the news articles said you should keep flossing?

by kart23 2y ago

Isn't flossing not supported by science also, but all the news articles said you should keep flossing?

That's one of those statements, like a natural empiricist saying they don't believe in the big bang, that people tend to latch onto and run with without stopping to evaluate. Flossing daily isn't necessary if you're an adequate manual brusher. Relatively few people are adequate manual brushers. Buy a good electric toothbrush, floss periodically.

xyst 2y ago
> floss periodically I used to do this periodically because I hated doing it. But as a result, plaque would build up. Especially on the front bottom incisors. Eventually added it to my daily routine after the nth time being told to floss daily. And now my dental cleanings are more like spot checks. I suppose it’s anecdotal and unique to everyone though. Something about mouth flora.
- IIsi50MHz 2y ago
  But…flossy daily is literally flossing periodically. Or did you mean you used to do an unspecified longer period? Or aperiodically?
  - IIsi50MHz 2y ago
    flossing*
MetaWhirledPeas 2y ago
> Flossing daily isn't necessary if you're an adequate manual brusher. Anecdote. I went my whole life not-flossing, having occasional procedures until every molar had work done to it. I started flossing daily and the need for procedures stopped.

rootusrootus 2y ago

Yes, flossing cannot be proven to help. But it cannot be proven to hurt, either, so current recommendations are to do it anyway.

krackers 2y ago
>cannot be proven to hurt Inserting floss between your teeth pushes them slightly apart. I wonder if that could have any negatives?
- bsmith 2y ago
  Considering orthodontic treatments, no. I imagine you could damage the connective tissues under the gums though.
camgunz 2y ago
You can say the exact same thing about eating a blank piece of paper twice a day. Pascal's wager is no way to live life.
Barrin92 2y ago
>But it cannot be proven to hurt, either, so current recommendations are to do it anyway. That's not a meaningful standard for any health intervention. If I'd apply everything to my body that wasn't proven to hurt I'd spend a hundred bucks every morning and two hours in the bathroom. If "it doesn't hurt" was sufficient basis for a recommendation our doctors would tell us to swallow homeopathic medicine every morning. It seems pretty obvious that anything you apply has to have at least some measurable impact, otherwise you're basically in the same category as the supplement industry.
- mikedelfino 2y ago
  I'm inclined to believe that preventing food particles from rotting between my teeth is a measurable impact in itself, regardless of whether it directly impacts my health.

lesuorac 2y ago

Perhaps you'll find it useful that a double-blind study found no improvement in outcome from use of a parachute when jumping out of a helicopter. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC300808/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC300808/

hervature 2y ago
That's not at all what that "study" says. It is a critique (in poor taste if you ask me) that everything does not require a double-blind study.
- mlyle 2y ago
  > It is a critique (in poor taste if you ask me) that everything does not require a double-blind study. I think the real point is that systemic reviews often will have a pretty tilted set of included studies, because they are influenced by what things researchers choose to study. Indeed, you probably couldn't publish a study saying that parachutes work; it's not an interesting enough finding for publication. So the only stuff you'll find, in many cases, are studies that buck the prevailing wisdom.
- marcosdumay 2y ago
  IMO, it's a critique on the "no study shows it exists, therefore it doesn't exist" attitude. If you manage to do double-blind studies for every single piece of knowledge out there, kudos for you. There's nothing bad in this. Anyway, it's on topic for several sidelines people are raising. But not on topic for the main article.
underbiding 2y ago
the studies are about outcomes of parachute use writ-large ("gravitational challenges"), not just helicopters. Only reason I'm being pedantic here is because if the study was in-fact looking at parachutes from helicopters, it could actually be plausible that parachutes had no improvements when used with helicopters. Most, if not all pilots, don't wear parachutes because there's not enough time to jump out of a crashing helicopter to deploy one and the blades would probably hit you anyway (unlike a plane which you could glide for some time, helicopters are notoriously more likely to fall straight like a brick)

flossmaster 2y ago

My most recent trip to the dentist include a brief recommendation to floss, but they weren't really pushing it like they used to.

criddell 2y ago

If flossing lowers the risk of certain types of gum disease and certain types of gum disease are associated with Alzheimer’s, then maybe flossing is (indirectly) good for your brain. https://www.health.harvard.edu/mind-and-mood/good-oral-health-may-help-protect-against-alzheimers https://www.health.harvard.edu/mind-and-mood/good-oral-healt...

alliao 2y ago
the whole Alzheimers field recently got turned upside down... not sure how to assess them anymore... https://www.science.org/content/article/research-misconduct-finding-neuroscientist-eliezer-masliah-papers-under-suspicion https://www.science.org/content/article/research-misconduct-...
- moi2388 2y ago
  If you follow news in France, it’s been shown and been shown in court cases that certain pesticides, commonly used in wine farming, cause Alzheimer’s and Parkinson’s. They have much higher rates of these diseases, and recently in a court case the death of a farmers daughter has been shown to be caused by these pesticides.
  - initplus 2y ago
    Court isn't the place for scientific inquiry into these issues. It's just not setup for it. French courts have also found in favor of "electrosensitivity" issues.
m463 2y ago
I thought it was gum disease and heart disease?

pushupentry1219 2y ago

Completely anecdotal but my gums flare up and just feel disgusting when I don't floss for too long. I don't do the dentist recommended 2/week but if I stop flossing for over a month I notice significant decrease in my gum health. It becomes excruciatingly painful to brush and this stage and my mouth is full of blood afterwards. So I'm sticking to flossing pretty often now.

meowster 2y ago
That does not sound normal.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
meowster 2y ago
You might be going at it too hard. Please see a dentist or get a second opinion from another dentist. According to my dentist, you can damage your gums by brushing them too hard. I don't floss so he didn't address that, but in both methods, force is being applied to delicate tissue. The point of brushing and flossing is to remove food particles. You don't have to abuse your teeth or gums to do that.
- pushupentry1219 2y ago
  I have been told by him not to brush too hard. And i dont brush hard. But the issue is not related to my brushing. What I meant with the blood was; First I don't floss for a month. Then what looks like gingivitis shows up. And when I brush (normally -- not hard) after this, the sites that have the gingivitis bleed and are extremely painful. If I don't floss my dentist notices immediately and tells me to floss more often because there's food and shit in there, hence why I tend to floss.

caseyy 2y ago

It's one of those things which people endlessly argue about, but once one flosses once or twice, the rotting bits of food in between their teeth become very unappealing to them.

askvictor 2y ago

That story is because no-one had thought to study it so there was no scientific evidence that it made any difference. Not that a study had found it made no difference.

krageon 2y ago

It's like when I researched whether an electric toothbrush is better: All the studies say it's not, assuming you're a good brusher. You're probably not. For bad brushers and people that can't manipulate the toothbrush properly for whatever reason, an electric toothbrush gets them to the same performance.

zupa-hu 2y ago

My partner is an orthodontist. (That’s a specialization within dentistry.) I’m a software engineer btw. The saying goes that you only need to floss the teeth you want to keep. If you think about it, a toothbrush will only clean 3 sides of a tooth. Top, outer side, inner side. Not the 2 sides facing neighbour teeth. How on earth is it very important to clean those 3 sides but not the remaining 2? That just doesn’t make sense. If you think flossing is not useful, to be coherent, you must believe toothbrushing is not useful. On the flip side, learn how to do flossing right to not hurt your gums. The floss must follow the shape of the tooth, and not be straight. (Ie. move along a U path.) Flossing in a straight line does more harm then good.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

skybrian 2y ago

Anecdotally, my gums used to bleed fairly easily (like during a dental cleaning) and they don’t anymore since flossing somewhat more regularly. So I think you can judge this by how dental cleanings go.