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Geico terminating insurance coverage of Tesla Cybertrucks
- MilnerRoute 2y agoA recent filing "revealed that Tesla has now built and sold 27,185 Foundation-Series Cybertrucks for customers." https://www.notateslaapp.com/news/2296/nhtsa-reveals-tesla-cybertruck-sales-number-in-ota-recall-filing https://www.notateslaapp.com/news/2296/nhtsa-reveals-tesla-c...
- linotype 2y ago> “It makes no sense, as there are other, riskier cars out there. Let me know if you recommend any insurer for the truck. I have eight cars with an amazing record. I will be canceling my entire Geico policy!! Bye-bye!” Eight cars. Eight. Our planet (for humans anyway) is truly screwed.
- stonethrowaway 2y agoPersonal vehicles? Commercial vehicles? Small business?
- noduerme 2y agoWhat's the difference if someone has 8 cars or one car? He can only drive one at a time. And at least one is electric.
- linotype 2y agoResources to build them, for one.
- asadalt 2y agothey were likely paid for?
- linotype 2y agoyes, most vehicles are, that doesn’t eliminate the environmental impact.
- JimmyAustin 2y agoTLDR: If he buys a car a year, and drives the same number of miles as the average American, his total emissions are probably equal to someone who drives 28k miles a year. Carbon emissions for a Model 3 vs a Toyota Corolla even out after 13'500 miles according to Argonne National Laboratory [1], which is slightly less than the average an American drives per year (14'263 miles [2]). Assuming that he drives as much as the average driver, his cars generate as much Co2 as a Model 3 (definitely not true for the Cybertruck, but he probably has low-build-emission ICE cars in the other 8 to lower the average), and he buys a car a year, he has roughly the equivalent emissions of someone who drives twice the average number of miles each year. For reference, a long haul driver (of which there are 300k-500k in the US [3]) drives 100-110k miles [4] a year (7-8x the average). [1] https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/when-do-electric-vehicles-become-cleaner-than-gasoline-cars-2021-06-29/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/when-d... [2] https://www.thezebra.com/resources/driving/average-miles-driven-per-year/#:~:text=On%20average%2C%20Americans%20drive%2014%2C263,to%20the%20Federal%20Highway%20Administration https://www.thezebra.com/resources/driving/average-miles-dri.... [3] https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2021/05/25/999784202/is-there-really-a-truck-driver-shortage#:~:text=The%20ATA%20says%20the%20real,long%2Dhaul%20truckers%20in%20America https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2021/05/25/999784202/is-t.... [4] https://www.caltrux.org/driver-faqs/#:~:text=Begin%20a%20Career%20as%20a,miles%20behind%20the%20wheel%20annually https://www.caltrux.org/driver-faqs/#:~:text=Begin%20a%20Car....
- maxerickson 2y agoTruck drivers are doing a commercial activity where it is reasonable to largely attribute the emissions to the customer.
- linotype 2y agoYes, those Americans driving on average 77 miles a day. Every day.
- anonCoffee 2y agoEach car will likely get used less under him, and then eventually sold/gifted to others at a discounted rate. Those cars will most likely get used through their useful lifespan without any more or less effect on the world than they would have otherwise.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- meiraleal 2y ago> Each car will likely get used less under him It will for sure be used much more than if it didn't exist
- m463 2y agoAs folks get older, they usually become responsible for other people.
- linotype 2y agoYes, I’m sure the eight vehicles are for him, his wife and six driving age children. To all drive at the same time.
- rad_gruchalski 2y agoYou don't know what the context for those registrations is. You just make assumptions.
- llamaimperative 2y agoEvery thought you have is an assumption, the question is how well-founded they are.
- rad_gruchalski 2y agoGood luck basing your life on assumptions.
- JaimeThompson 2y agoAbsent things that are pure math isn't everything Humanity "knows" basically a series of, while highly supported by evidence in a lot of cases, just assumptions about the way things really work?
- rad_gruchalski 2y agoThere’s no pure math in making assumptions about someone’s registrations. In optimal situation one may ask a question. In suboptimal one has to give a benefit of the doubt. An example: lawyers don’t assume. Almost everyone else just assumes stuff. Assuming and not seeking for verification is why there’s so much disconnect between individuals.
- blendo 2y agoI’m imagining quite the redneck-y front yard.
- sokoloff 2y agoMy imagination does not have the person who bought a Cybertruck as their eighth car storing cars on their front yard.
- 1970-01-01 2y agoDo you not have 8 computers in your home that are capable of sending email, browsing the web, and doing taxes? Why do you have so many?
- linotype 2y agoEven if I did have 8 computers, which would be weird but OK, it’d be a fraction of the resources used to make one car.
- Schnitz 2y agoI’m surprised that the article doesn’t mention the complete lack of pedestrian safety, which is so bad the truck can’t be sold in Europe. Geico might not want to pay those claims of sharp steel edges ripping into people.
- ddek 2y agoI’m not sure that is the case, but if it is, it’s interesting to me as a fairly extreme example of the free market self regulating.
- bencelaszlo 2y ago> I’m surprised that the article doesn’t mention the complete lack of pedestrian safety, which is so bad the truck can’t be sold in Europe I mean that's not a Cybertruck-exclusive problem
- gnrlst 2y agoWhat do you mean? It's basically steel blades and sharp/pointy edges on wheels. I'm sure other vehicles will hurt if they hit a pedestrian at speed, but even getting hit at 5 mph by the cybertruck could create very dangerous wounds.
- nothercastle 2y agoHardly a Tesla problem though, the grill culture of suvs and trucks is a thing because pedestrian safety is not a design consideration.
- SR2Z 2y agoAn F150 or Dodge RAM, despite being ludicrously large, is much less dangerous than the cybertruck at low speeds because instead of sharp and jagged protrusions they just have a smooth wall-like front end. At high speeds? Compare their weights and you'll see that making a pickup truck electric also makes it really heavy.
- andsoitis 2y agoGeico also doesn’t insure certain models of McLarens, Lamborghinis, Jaguars, Bugattis. A quick search reveals there have also been certain Kia and Huyandai models that they don’t insure.
- FireBeyond 2y ago> McLarens, Lamborghinis, Jaguars, Bugattis So they don't insure[1] high end exotics and supercars[2]. I wasn't aware the Cyber Truck was a supercar. [1] There's also a difference between not offering coverage and actively terminating coverage that was previously offered. [2] They actually insure basically all Jaguars. There are a couple of people complaining that their rates for a high performance Jaguar model, as a young male, are steep, but that's not exactly the same. > A quick search reveals there have also been certain Kia and Huyandai models that they don’t insure. Which I'm fairly certain made the news, too. Your comment just seems like "Why is this news?" Even with the Kia and Hyundai theft issues, they didn't terminate coverage, they just issued notices of non-renewal. They're actively terminating current and open policies for the CyberTruck as quickly as they are legally allowed to. That's why.
- bhouston 2y ago> They're actively terminating current and open policies for the CyberTruck as quickly as they are legally allowed to I am not sure they are actively cancelling insurance as you claim. The main email that caused this news cycle says specifically: “ ALL COVERAGE ON THE 2024 TESLA CYBERTRUCK PROVIDED BY GEICO CASUALTY COMPANY, UNDER THE ABOVE POLICY NUMBER, WILL NON-RENEW AS OF 12:01 A.M. ON xx/xx/xx.” https://www.torquenews.com/11826/geico-terminating-insurance-coverage-tesla-cybertrucks-says-type-vehicle-doesnt-meet-our https://www.torquenews.com/11826/geico-terminating-insurance... Which seems to be a non renewal notice.
- youngtaff 2y ago> So they don't insure[1] high end exotics and supercars[2]. I wasn't aware the Cyber Truck was a supercar. It’s clearly an exotic…
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- jerlam 2y agoDoesn't Tesla offer their own car insurance? I doubt they would drop one of their own vehicles, but the first page of search results showed a lot of negative comments.
- m463 2y agoTelsa insurance snoops on your driving and behavior.
- nick_ 2y agoThat's good though? I'd love for my premium to not subsidize the payouts to parties involved in crashes caused by aggressive drivers. LOL the downvote. This site is entertaining.
- FireBeyond 2y agoI wonder if your premium is higher if you've bought Ludicrous Mode, because there's a higher possibility of you being one of those ... aggressive drivers.
- nick_ 2y agoI certainly hope so. Although using geofencing around private roads/tracks to determine where the aggressive maneuvers are being used would be most fair. Like if someone's driving metrics are totally smooth and predictable on public roads, but then they go nuts on a race track, a lower premium makes sense. Now that I type that out, how does car insurance work while driving on a private race track?
- jerlam 2y agoMaybe just owning a Cybertruck is evidence enough that you're an aggressive driver. It's heavily marketed as being so strong that in case of any collision, it "will win". Someone who dropped six figures on the Cybertruck is going to want to drive it to the limit suggested by all the advertising.
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- widdakay 2y agoCan someone find more about why GEICO did this? It makes no sense. Furthermore, they could just increase rates if they found accidents too common. Also, there are much less safe cars out there for pedestrians such as the Hummer EV (complete behemoth) or Rivian (weighs more than CT and has significantly higher frontal profile which is shown to be the largest contributor to pedestrian safety above basically anything else). If it's about breakdowns, that money comes from Tesla's wallet so would make no sense. Even so, I see Cybertrucks driving daily and haven't seen a broken down one yet.
- joshribakoff 2y ago> they could just raise rates Well, they (insurance companies in general ) also dropped a lot of homeowners in certain states, rather than simply raising the rates. Perhaps they have done some market research and determined that there is an inflection point beyond which raising rates would actually reduce profits due to reduced competitiveness
- dd82 2y agoCar insurance in general is a race to the bottom with competition. A good quarter has 70% of incoming premium going out to settle claims. When you have fender bender claims costing 20-40k USD to repair, how do you price that risk?
- aleph_minus_one 2y ago> When you have fender bender claims costing 20-40k USD to repair, how do you price that risk? This is a solved problem. Ask any actuary who specializes in casualty insurance, or read a standard textbook about non-life insurance mathematics.
- gnu8 2y agoShush, I want to see a YC25 auto insurance startup that uses a pile of overheated video cards as a crystal ball to make underwriting decisions.
- mapt 2y agoI often ask in regards to terminating commercial offers of goods and services with a floating price point: Why? Why not just adjust the price to be commensurate with the cost?
- tschwimmer 2y agoNobody will pay for it and they get hit with headlines that say “Geico raises rates on some customers by x,000%!”
- kayodelycaon 2y agoIf you have to make a price for one-off customer, you end up having to support that use case as long as they are a customer. You may need to change your entire business model just to support them. If they leave, all that change is worth nothing. Unless you're in the business of doing custom work, it's unlikely to be worth the opportunity cost elsewhere. After a certain point it's not about money. Your time and attention is worth more than they would ever be willing to pay. If the customer wants it that badly, they can pay the price to get it from someone else.
- LatteLazy 2y agoIs their any evidence of this applying to anyone other than this specific example? I ask as I cannot find any. And the email quoted is quite specific ("reviewing YOUR record" and "YOUR policy is being cancelled"). Being on a multi-car policy complicates the logic here. As does the specific location (California has laws limiting insurance rate increases that lead to exactly this). But it's entirely that this is an isolated change with nothing to do with the overall vehicle. The fact he has 8 other cars makes me suspect he hit some limit they had not previously enforced...
- taylodl 2y agoMany insurers have also dropped specific models of Kia and Hyundai because of their lack of effective anti-theft technology. I say that only to point out that an insurer no longer covering a specific model isn't unprecedented. The repair costs of the Cybertruck are astronomical and Geico must feel that for the business model to make sense the premiums would also be astronomical, so much so that they opted to get out of the market altogether. It'd be interesting to know whether they're just dropping Full Coverage or dropping All coverage - I'd still think they'd sell you insurance to protect you should you cause damages, which is the minimum insurance required in most (all?) states.
- kotaKat 2y agoJalopnik got a statement from GEICO that stated a bit more. https://jalopnik.com/geico-is-cancelling-tesla-cybertruck-policies-as-it-doe-1851666570 https://jalopnik.com/geico-is-cancelling-tesla-cybertruck-po... "Because of its gross weight and potential challenges with parts availability for repair shops, some customers may have received notices stating that PPA [private passenger automobile] insurance would not be renewed for this vehicle. However, policies for this vehicle have always been available through our commercial insurance division, and now remain available via PPA as well." I know my insurer (Progressive) is very iffy on Teslas, however there are 20+ year "Lifetime Crown" customers that have some level of overridability on underwriting. After 20+ years they'll even insure you "regardless of changes to your driving status", and I've heard at least one report of someone managing to put a personally owned firetruck on a Progressive policy against underwriting guidelines and Progressive was forced to underwrite it because of the Crown promises to the customer.
- SoftTalker 2y agoIf you're leasing your Cybertruck, or have financed its purchase, you will be required to carry full coverage. I would imagine this is the case for most people; very few are paying cash for an $80-100K vehicle.
- russdill 2y agoI'm not your dad or anything, but if you don't have the cash to purchase a 6 figure vehicle, you should not be financing a 6 figure loan with auto loan rates.
- sircastor 2y agoI think we've started to enter a weird space. For a number of "necessary" things in life (in the US), one needs to purchase insurance - in some cases its required by law, or an unavoidable policy of obtaining a loan. Cars and houses. But insurers have started just refusing to insure some cars, or homes in some locations (and we're not just talking about building in a flood plane). We're going to have piles of cars and homes that no one can use because the risk profile is too high for insurers.
- ratedgene 2y agoWouldn't people just secure higher cost insurance to offset the risk?
- SoftTalker 2y agoAt some point that becomes unaffordable for most people.
- ratedgene 2y agoThen it becomes like insuring priceless art, people are just priced out of it, especially if it's a requirement to owning/driving it in the first place. Perhaps these become undrivable and get their own stage in some art hall.
- sroussey 2y agoMany states require approval for various rates, so it’s easier to just not insure.
- Slevin11 2y agoIn many places there is no higher cost insurance to offset the risk.
- Workaccount2 2y agoPeople should take heed in what premiums insurance places on things. They are in the business of pricing risk, independent of political or social bias. They lose money if they have ideologues as actuaries. They make money if their assessments match reality. So when insurance companies are dropping coverage for things, it's a strong signal that you should too(unless you have a high appetite for risk.)
- eqvinox 2y agoA car that can't be registered in Europe because it doesn't meet safety standards has problems getting insurance where it can be registered... that's not particularly surprising? I guess it would've been "nice" if they just increased the rates to cover the higher risk, but it looks like at some point they decided it's not worth bothering. It's a free market, they're free to not offer service...
- throw49sjwo1 2y agoIt can be registered in Europe, many countries allow individual car import from the US. I have seen a few around; not on public streets (car shows), but with local plates. You also won't have any issue getting third-party damage insurance in Europe, as the insurance companies are required to make an offer.
- eqvinox 2y agoI'm aware of single/custom car special procedures, but last I checked the Cybertruck can't get a type approval in any EU country. Individual registering them vs. not being able to register them doesn't really make a difference for the argument, does it? Honestly I might even have bought a nice electric truck, but that weird box on wheels just ain't it :(
- SoftTalker 2y agoI actually would consider an EV pickup truck. My uses for a truck are almost entirely local, so range concerns would be much less. EVs are still too expensive for me however. For now when I need to haul something that won't fit in my car, I rent a trailer.
- throw49sjwo1 2y agoWhere do you check if it can get a type approval? I don't think that's something you can easily determine just by looking at it and saying "yeah too big, doesn't look right, not european enough". There are very weird things with type approvals in Europe. Don't mistake it for some super rational land. Note that even mega-trucks can be street legal in Europe, and most traditional American big pickups like Dodge RAM are type approved - why not a Cybertruck then? Europe will type approve anything that proves it's safe and follows basic conventions. That will most likely include the Cybertruck, as the question really isn't "is this car a good idea?" - even bad products that nobody needs or wants get type approved, and Cybertruck really will not be the worst thing that happened to European roads. Tesla knows very well how to get a US car type approved in EU with minimal adjustments. It was very curious to watch with previous models. They are quick, too.