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Congress fights to keep AM radio in cars
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- cranberryturkey 2y agoSF Giants are still aired on AM radio -- that's about all I use AM for these days.
- 082349872349872 2y agoWe've deprecated FM already; it should disappear either end of this year or in a couple of years (I haven't been following very closely; I don't listen to it either).
- illini1 2y agoFM radio has not been deprecated, where did you hear that? And the infrastructure is not disappearing any time soon.
- londons_explore 2y agoNorway shut down FM in 2023. Switzerland will shut it down in 2026. Various other governments are choosing dates - it's clear it's going away soon.
- cj 2y agoStupid question, but what do you listen to in the car without FM? Surely playing music doesn’t require that you you connect your phone to your car?
- londons_explore 2y agoAll cars in Europe support DAB (digital radio) for the last ~5 years by law. Pretty much all cars also support bluetooth, USB sticks, and some still have Aux in. Some support various internet radio/music (spotify etc). Most cars support Android Auto/Carplay, wired and wireless, giving you access to anything your phone supports.
- jeroenhd 2y agoAll new cars. Buying new cars isn't as common in many places in Europe as it is in countries like the US. According to https://www.acea.auto/figure/average-age-of-eu-vehicle-fleet-by-country/ https://www.acea.auto/figure/average-age-of-eu-vehicle-fleet..., the average age of a European car is over 12 years. It'll take another seven years for your average European car to have DAB+ support, let alone all cars. In theory any old car can support DAB+ but car accessory manufacturers like to as ridiculous amount of money for car radios, so I doubt this change will occur faster than the car replacement rate. DAB+ has been a complete failure so far. Its reception issues are even worse than FM and of the few people I know that have even heard of it, nobody cares. The benefactors of the DAB+ transition aren't the people listening tk the radio, but the radio stations fighting for frequency space.
- 082349872349872 2y agoif you think DAB a failure, then the "we" I meant is just unevenly distributed. (norway and switzerland are both mountainous countries, which meant the same FM station had to maintain several different transmitters on numerous frequencies — if you're in a country flat enough to serve with vanilla sugar and hagelslag, might that have something to do with our divergent experiences?)
- jeroenhd 2y agoThe average age of a Norwegian car is still 11 years (https://www.ssb.no/en/statbank/table/05528/tableViewLayout1/ https://www.ssb.no/en/statbank/table/05528/tableViewLayout1/), not the five since DAB+ has been mandated. I don't know if Norway has a large car radio upgrading scene, but support is still far from guaranteed. Broadcasters may have switched away, but with the modern omnipresence of services like Spotify, I wouldn't be surprised if the cars not supporting DAB simply don't use their radio anymore. Based on the numbers I can find, 30% of Norwegian cars still can't receive DAB broadcasts and at the time of the switchover only a third of the cars on the road could even receive DAB transmissions. Percentages improve if you also count home radios (that's where the 97% number comes from) but it's a lot easier to install a new radio at home than it is to upgrade your car. Furthermore, DAB transmits on an even higher frequency than FM, so mountainous areas will need more transmitters than with plain FM, not less. Sure, the combined digital streams DAB provides are used to reduce the amount of transmitter installations, but that also could've happened with FM. DAB is far from a failure. It'll eventually replace FM by mandate, because there's an incentive for governments to let more radio stations pay for broadcasting licenses. However, it's also far from a success at the moment. Access to streaming services such a Spotify or the internet broadcasts of the radio stations themselves has probably eased the transition as well.
- trinix912 2y agoBut Norway and Switzerland are two countries where I'd assume you don't see as many 20 year old cars as you do in the opposite parts of Europe. Many cars since the early 2000s don't have those standardized boxy stereos you could just swap anymore. You can make the point that people can just tune in through their phone but most people won't go through the hassle every time they sit in a (company owned, for example) car. I doubt FM is going away this decade, perhaps even longer, for most of the world. As for Europe, there's also Romania with their longwave AM broadcasts.
- Tor3 2y agoNorway still have local FM radios. It's just the big public and commercial stations which were forced to move to DAB. When that's said, I believe there are fewer and fewer local stations available.
- londons_explore 2y agoThe FM bands are more commercially 'interesting', because they're wider. One traditional FM band can fit tens of digital radio stations in, via DAB or DRM or HD radio etc. AM bands aren't very useful for modern tech because you need huge antennas, can't do MIMO or squeeze much data in, etc.
- SoftTalker 2y agoYes if you remember back to pre-digital era, there were maybe half a dozen FM stations in most areas. Even without "preset" buttons you could tune them almost by memory by how far you had to spin the dial. Now there are dozens of FM stations, often low power but it seems like almost every 0.2 frequency increment has something.
- SoftTalker 2y agoAM is mostly news, talk, and sports for many years now. When I was a kid most new cars didn't even have FM radios yet and the AM stations were more varied, many played music, top 40, etc.
- 486sx33 2y agoWell, I love finding new and different FM stations while traveling. I confess I haven’t listened to AM in years, in the cities there is often a lot of interference… That being said, they should be required to have better shielding on their electric motors
- zephyreon 2y agoI appreciate that people still find AM radio useful, nostalgic, etc. This feels like something that should not be regulated. Let auto manufacturers decide to include it or not, consumers will vote with their wallets. I doubt most people will miss AM radio all that much.
- hinkley 2y agoWhat’s the total bandwidth of the AM band? Does it make sense to reclaim it for wide area wireless networking?
- swatcoder 2y agoWhen living in the unassailed peace and prosperity of a Western society in the post-Cold War era, it's very easy to forget that profound security and emergency crises are still likely to occur sooner or later. Preserving the viability of simple radio circuits that might receive public safety messages and the towers that can broadcast to them is a concern that operates on a different level than "will it make the car cheaper" or "who even listens to AM" A lot of the systems and technologies that we've grown used to and rely on for our daily needs are extremely capable but also extremely fragile and brittle. Keeping backstop technologies from being lost altogether is fairly cheap and might make a significant difference if and when crises do arise.
- uberman 2y agoA portable AM radio costs 10 bucks. Should we also mandate that cars come with first aid kit, a flashlight or defibrillator?
- bhouston 2y ago[flagged]
- fleabagmange 2y agoI believe Soros or one of his charitable proxies just bought 200 stations with no Federal opposition to his purchase so I’m sure it’s not strictly right wing any longer.
- acdha 2y agoThere’ve been a number of false claims circulated about that but here’s a good summary of what really happened and why claims in the tabloid / anti-Semitic media sphere aren’t accurate: https://www.cnn.com/2024/09/30/business/audacy-bankruptcy-soros-gop/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2024/09/30/business/audacy-bankruptcy-so...
- mistermann 2y agoThis makes it sound like none of the claims are accurate.
- RobotToaster 2y agoThe problem with digital radio is that it's all or nothing. Analogue degrades gracefully, if you need to listen to the news in an emergency, it doesn't matter if it sounds fuzzy.
- kachapopopow 2y agoFM radio will still exist afaik. Nobody in my country used AM for a decade now.
- LeoPanthera 2y agoThe useful range of FM is much shorter. The reason why AM transmitters remain so useful in geographically large countries like the USA is that you need far fewer transmitters to reach everyone.
- bigfishrunning 2y agoThat has more to do with the frequency band then the modulation scheme. I wonder if long range FM in the ~1000khz broadcast band would make sense in the future. It would get the range of AM broadcast radio with the quality of FM (but it may require too much bandwidth to be practical)
- wakawaka28 2y agoI'm no expert but I think lowering the frequency far below the current standard was not feasible due to the frequencies and ranges being transmitted.
- LeoPanthera 2y agoYou're not wrong, but that's useless nitpicking. We're not going to suddenly introduce a brand new radio standard that no-one has a radio for. There are literally millions of AM radios out there in the US, at the already agreed frequency range. For emergency broadcast uses, the increased quality of FM is meaningless.
- blackeyeblitzar 2y ago[flagged]
- pstuart 2y agoGood for him. Rupert Murdoch needs some counter balancing...
- bigfishrunning 2y agoI always thought cars ought to have a weather band receiver in them, but I've never seen that feature in a factory radio. As a HAM I have an amateur transceiver in my car and i find weather band reception to be really useful
- quantumfissure 2y agoI agree. Subaru did have them for a bit in the early-mid-2000's. I had it in our 05 Forester. Stock radio. Our 2011 Outback and my mother-in-law's 2017 Forester lacks it though. No clue why they removed it. It was wonderful going through New England mountains trying to know what the weather will do in 5 mins when it inevitably changes.
- jessriedel 2y agoSeems so cheap to include, but I guess it’s the same weird reasons that car manufacturers are willing to make their UI baffling to save a single mechanical button.
- notjulianjaynes 2y agoWas this stock? I do not recall this feature in either the 1998 nor 2001 Subarus I drove into the ground. Seems strange but not implausible it would have been briefly an option in the generation after that. 2005 is about when Subarus got less boxy with big plastic bumpers and crumple zones. Jokingly, perhaps it was not a feature but happened accidentally due to the head gaskets design on the EJ25 engine.
- bentcorner 2y agoIt was stock in my 2003 Forester that we eventually got rid of due to head gasket problems.
- Syonyk 2y agoI had a 2002 Outback wagon for a while with weather band in the stock radio. I rather liked it for rolling across country during the winter - with a good set of snow tires, that car was pretty much unstoppable! ... and wisdom also suggested that when you realize you've not seen semis on the road for a good while from how bad the snow is, you should take the hint and go find a spot to sleep for a while until things improve.
- azinman2 2y ago"While early radio amateurs harnessed its potential to connect and inform, the era of unlicensed amateur broadcasting ended during World War I due to fears that the new medium might be misused to spread foreign propaganda or divisive content." You gotta wonder what the congress of bygone eras would have done with the current system we have of media and corporate control.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- Nasrudith 2y agoWorld War 1 era media regulations isn't something to be proud of or looked upon as wisdom, it is something to be deeply ashamed of. These are the people who arrested pacifists and brought us the abominable (in both senses) logic of fire in a crowded theater for objecting to draft and involvement in a foreign war of unseen proportions.
- SllX 2y agoYeah, imagine if a free people had been able to spread information contradicting and undermining the Wilson administration: https://www.loc.gov/exhibitions/world-war-i-american-experiences/about-this-exhibition/over-here/surveillance-and-censorship/four-minute-men/ https://www.loc.gov/exhibitions/world-war-i-american-experie... (It’s worth going through the whole slideshow.)
- FergusArgyll 2y agoThe Baraboo fire may have been as much a protest over the difficulty of local German language courses as an expression of anti-German sentiment prevalent across the nation at that time. Are there easy German language courses?!
- SllX 2y agoThere were a lot more German-as-first-language Americans back then than there were later in the 20th Century due to anti-German sentiment.
- LeoPanthera 2y agoModern cars in the US, especially EVs it seems, are not only dropping AM radio but also now SiriusXM satellite radio. I was shocked to discover that the "Sirius" radio on many cars I have been looking at recently was merely an app that streamed over the cellular connection. I find this mildly terrifying. In an emergency, cellular will be the first to go. It doesn't even work reliably when everything is well.
- jessriedel 2y agoYea, even if the major space powers Kesslerize all the satellites (like Starlink) in low-Earth orbit, the civilian geostationary sats like Sirius XM will likely be flying. (Geostationary sats can, I think, only be brought down individually with anti-satellite weapons, and that would presumably be prohibitively expensive for all of them.)
- shiroiushi 2y agoSure, but who's going to pay for this? Satellites (especially geostationary ones) are expensive. And SiriusXM doesn't provide a worthwhile service that compels enough people to subscribe; it's a wonder it's still in business. The main function of a music subscription service is to listen to music, but have you ever listened to SiriusXM? The audio is so compressed that it sounds terrible.
- jessriedel 2y agoYea I agree. AM seems like the most viable.
- shiroiushi 2y agoExactly: AM doesn't require a network of satellites and terrestrial repeaters to be maintained just to provide some emergency public-service info with lousy audio quality. AM does this just fine, for very little cost on both sides (transmitter and receiver).
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- zzo38computer 2y agoI am not as concerned that a car has AM radio than I am that AM radio must continue to be available and that you must be allowed to replace the radio in the car with your own that can use AM radio and that the car will not interfere with your use of AM radio (whether by replacing the existing radio or by using a portable radio). It would be good for the car to include a radio that has AM, but that isn't as important as the other things that I had mentioned. AM radio is good due to the simplicity, instead of forcing replacing them with excessively complicated and confusing stuff like many modern computers are doing. I still use AM (and FM) radio. I do not have a car, but sometimes use in someone else's car, and I also use it at home; the radio is not only for the use in the car.
- notjulianjaynes 2y agoI can recount from memory nearly every minute in the last like 10 years I have spent listening to broadcast AM/FM radio outside of a car. Nearly all of them were spent testing new stereos. On one occasion I was circuit bending a Casio keyboard and randomly stuck an inductor coil somewhere and it accidentally made the keyboard an AM radio, Hi Fi Gilligan style [1]. I may have been using the tunable capacitor from a radio to mess with the clock speed as well. 1. https://m.imdb.com/title/tt1230840/ https://m.imdb.com/title/tt1230840/
- benoau 2y agoThere have however been many major disasters where congestion or service impaired or shut down cellular internet access, so I think we do still need that lifeline... although I'd rather the radios be in cell phones since they're more likely to be with you and powered on in a disaster!
- pessimizer 2y ago> I'd rather the radios be in cell phones since they're more likely to be with you and powered on in a disaster! It would have to be a very short disaster, because your cell battery is going to die before the day is out. I've only changed the batteries in my AM/FM shower radio once since I bought it a decade ago.
- hnpolicestate 2y agoI prefer the way talk sounds through AM vs digital. I realize special interests and money is involved but AM radio should continue to exist as some emergency communications fallback.
- fmajid 2y agoAnd what about buggy whip holders? Will no one think about the buggy whips?
- resters 2y agoI’ve wondered for a while why cars don’t simply ship with a tablet sized indentation, and adapters for popular tablets to connect an amplified speaker system. It appears the reason is because Congress thinks it knows best what type of audio system should be in a car. We live in a world where the United States EV “success story” is now protected by 100% tariffs on competitors.
- ClassyJacket 2y agoBecause Tesla wants 10$ a month for Premium Connectivity. But you can add a Carplay\Android Auto screen to most cars.
- resters 2y agoTrue, but why pay for the obsolete tech in the first place? A simple amplified speaker system and slot for a tablet would cost a lot less and avoid much of the obsolescence one faces with cars. Oops, the obsolescence is a key part of the profitability of automakers. Wait, the "big 3" should have gone under in 2008, likely bought up for scraps by Toyota, etc. Even Tesla is propped up by 100% tariffs on competition. We have no American innovation or reason these companies should even exist. This is not capitalism. It's a big wealth transfer to the incompetent, a giant corporate welfare project we should all be ashamed of.
- userbinator 2y agoThis is the most important use of AM radio in cars: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Travelers%27_information_station https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Travelers%27_information_stati...
- telgareith 2y agowhich side of the line did you intend to place yourself with that statement? I found that AM radio had so much interference 20 years ago listening to Radio Disney that I gave up. (oh god. That might be closer to 30yrs now) Dipping my toes into software defined radios (RTL-SDR, and a HackRF), I found AM to be incoherent in my area. So, what exactly is there to save? It's obvious there's an agenda- FCC already has enough latitude to allow low power FM broadcasts to replace AM ones without external involvement.
- fibers 2y agobloomberg radio has been my go to station for the past 16 years or so since it broadcasts in some major markets and i have no difficulty getting signal even at night. it is way better than using internet radio with buggy apps and where they inject an ad right before the stream starts playing.
- w-ll 2y agoThey just sold their AM in the bay, (or at least at the beginning of the month it went to some sports talk radio)
- isiahl 2y agoWas at a rest stop and heard talking coming from a box on a pole. It was reading out the weather in TTS voice, guessing it was the transmitter for one of these stations.
- LeoPanthera 2y agoIt was probably NOAA Weather Radio. https://www.weather.gov/nwr/ https://www.weather.gov/nwr/
- kmbfjr 2y agoThe issue Congress is missing isn’t AM radio, it is the willful RFI pollution by Ford and Tesla. These motors should not be causing the issue because if they block AM reception in that car, they’ll do it for all cars around them.
- kstrauser 2y agoI agree with that wholeheartedly. If a neighbor’s car is illegally transmitting on frequencies it’s not licensed for, and the neighbor’s the rare sort of jerk I would be afraid to talk to about it, I wouldn’t have qualms about reporting it to the FCC along with timestamped logs of when and on what frequencies. It could be entertaining to see the feds slap an injunction on someone to prevent them from starting their car. (NB: It’s way better to talk to your neighbors, obviously. I think we all know at least one knucklehead who wouldn’t respond to reason. I’d reserve this drastic measure for that sort of situation.)
- ralph84 2y agoI got news for you, power lines interfere with AM radio too. Guess we need Congress to do something about those too.
- klez 2y agoI got news for you: they already did https://www.arrl.org/power-line-noise https://www.arrl.org/power-line-noise
- Arubis 2y agoAlways worth following the money. Major broadcasters still using AM tend to be either sports or right-wing talk.
- btbuildem 2y agoInteresting read -- I appreciate their emphasis on what AM radio has mostly become ("divisive, grievance-filled infotainment") and that if Congress were to legislate AM radio as "public good", it should actually deliver a public good, not right wing corpo garbage.
- robertclaus 2y agoI haven't used AM radio for years. It does feel like it would die out if cars stopped including it, but this law seems like it's fighting the inevitable. I'd rather have internet access viewed as a public utility and/or better Internet privacy laws.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- djha-skin 2y agoIn Utah there can be blinding snowstorms that trap people in their cars on the side of the road. There are public service signs every so often, "for weather tune to AM 830" or something like that. It's great to pass one of those signs when there's a bunch of snow coming down. It helps you make a decision whether or not you should pull off and get a hotel room. Could they move to FM? Yes, but FM reception could be dodgy in a snowstorm, especially when going through mountain passes. Knowing what I know from my HAM radio training, AM radio is fantastic in emergencies. One tiny little station can blast out a signal that can be heard from halfway across the country if given enough umph. Being on the lower bands, AM punches through the storm better too. It makes a lot of sense to put emergency and national weather stations on the AM bands. They're cheaper to run, and they work better in emergencies. Some commenters here talking about right-wing political radio and sports wanting their AM radio bands available. People who listen to right-wing political radio don't do so from AM, or at least they don't need to. Podcasts and even FM stations out in red Utah are usually reached for first by my friends who listen to them. I remember driving through the "four corners" area where Utah, New Mexico, Colorado and Arizona meet. It's a place home to many American Indian nations. It also has terrible cellphone reception. The first time I bought a paper map in years was when I went down there. You couldn't find your way otherwise. I think of places like that when they talk about getting rid of AM. There's not a lot of money in AM radio, not compared to all the other media. At the end of the day, if you live in a _very_ rural place, AM radio may be your only source. I remember listening to a Navajo Radio station like this one[1]. The announcer spoke in Navajo. I remember driving through the reservation. It seriously feels like the 1930s. Frame houses but without any electricity plumbing or heating. The people in these regions are terribly poor. For safety reasons detailed above, I would not drive a car without AM radio. For humanitarian reasons also, I would advocate for keeping The rural and the poor in mind when making a decision to keep a receiver that otherwise makes no sense in perhaps a very urban setting where disasters are not that big of a problem, like the Chicago area where I grew up. 1: https://www.ktnnonline.com/events/ https://www.ktnnonline.com/events/
- asdefghyk 2y agoInternet radio has MANY potential points of failure, particularly during emergency situations, when electric power is unreliable, or out for many days. AM radio has a"head office " situation, studio and broadcast transmitter, both of which normally have emergency power supply's and generators capable of sustaining the station for several days. AM radio in cars can operate from car batteries. AM has significantly longer range than FM. Satellite radio , would be nowhere as wide spread as AM radio in cars. ( On a unrelated note, it is my opinion that the mobile phone network should have reliability standards for power supply - ie base stations and other network elements would keep operation if the commercial/ public electric supply was down - as often happens in emergency situations - like floods / cyclones / hurricanes / typhoons " Electric car makers need to try much harder to reduce their vehicles Radio Frequency Interference or RFI
- d0gsg0w00f 2y agoThere's just so many cell towers compared to radio broadcast stations. The very nature of the frequencies demand it. You would need ~$1m upgrades to every tower to retrofit with generators capable of lasting more than a week. I think it would have a huge impact on monthly bills for cell service. Likely one that the general subscriber would not appreciate given the rarity of a knockout event.
- kalleboo 2y agoIn these more rural areas where it's more likely for trees to take out the power supply and restoration takes a long time, adding solar and battery backup would be much cheaper, and might even make it's cost back in reduced power cost during non-emergency times.
- toast0 2y ago> On a unrelated note, it is my opinion that the mobile phone network should have reliability standards for power supply Maybe they should, but they don't. In my neck of the woods, towers start dropping off after 4 hours, and in 6 hours, they're all gone. I don't have a real landline, but my DSL line has zero seconds of run time when utility power drops; sometimes I get lucky and the DSLAM maintains service through a trip/reclose event, but usually that's enough to drop the connection and then I have to reboot my modem because the two ends won't resync otherwise. (NBD, I have automation)
- SoftTalker 2y agoFor many decades, having a radio in a car at all was an optional extra. Probably in the 1970s or so it became pretty standard. I see no issue with an automaker deciding to omit AM radios if they think customers prefer that. The market will decide. There's no reason to mandate a radio of any kind in a car.
- klodolph 2y agoThe public interest reason for mandating radios is so that drivers can receive emergency broadcasts.
- SoftTalker 2y agoAre we going to remove the power switch also to force people to have their radios on at all times in case there is an emergency broadcast?
- omjnteontoh 2y agoare annoying autistic people like you going to stop making retarded posts on HN (answer to both questions: no)
- klodolph 2y agoIn an emergency, when you have a million people evacuating a city, you can put up signs that say e.g. “tune to AM 850 for emergency broadcasts”. To be honest I thought this part was kind of obvious and I don’t know why you made such a sarcastic comment about power buttons. Realistically speaking, every car on the market has a sound system anyway. You just need an antenna and AM radio, plus the user interface. It is not a major expense relative to the price of the car.
- vel0city 2y agoIn an emergency, when you have a million people evacuating a city, you can put up signs that say e.g. "tune to FM 90.1 for emergency broadcasts". We're in cities, not the middle of nowhere in this scenario. The idea that we need an AM station to cover a few hundred square miles doesn't really apply here. > You just need an antenna and AM radio, plus the user interface And ensure all the shielding is good enough so your AM radio is actually useful, and designing all that shielding, and potentially having to change the placement of antennas on the car, etc.
- nimbius 2y agoThere arent any alternatives for major catastrophes that can top amplitude modulated radio. if you are in a car fleeing for your life from a wildfire, major storm, or war, AM radio is available sometimes hundreds of miles from your location to provide timely instruction and lifesaving updates. if you need electricity for a radio, your car has fuel and can provide a radio signal to you for quite some time. AM radio can be transmitted with a roll of wire and a relatively simple transciever from an FOB or refugee camp. digital radio requires codecs, licenses, and specialty equipment. Satellite radio may, or may not be available as the ground stations that power it require even more advanced transcievers and software to operate and could take months to repair if attacked or destroyed. Cellular towers require special beamforming antenna that can take months to rebuild or procure in an emergency and rely on an advanced system of transcievers and software to provide a signal. its not Dolby quality, but if you need clean water and shelter it will guide you. Arguably you could mandate a VHF receiver in every car for FM based NOAA/EAS alerts, but AM is still cheaper.
- Gigachad 2y agoI had read in a previous thread that some cars had been dropping it as the modern electronics in cars were generating too much interference for AM radio to work.
- giantg2 2y agoI heard it was the EV vehicles drive systems, not the modern electronics. Either way, they should fix the shielding if it's really that noisy.
- hersko 2y agoAm i the only one who still mostly listens to AM radio when in the car?
- codexb 2y agocool story bro
- ralph84 2y agoObviously this is just broadcasters wanting to maintain their captive audience. The “what about the apocalypse” argument is just the standard “won’t someone think of the children” misdirection. In an emergency a 120V AC inverter is far more useful equipment to have in a car than an AM radio.
- jcgrillo 2y agoThe manufacturers' chief objection seems to be that EV motors interfere with AM signals, therefore the AM band needs to go away. Not an EE, but for what little I understand of FCC mandated EM compliance testing, this seems like an absolutely ridiculous argument and I hope the automakers are swiftly and harshly taken to task for it.
- analog31 2y agoI haven't been in the business for a while, but I remember learning that the EM compliance rules have some special carve-outs for electric motor control systems.
- usefulcat 2y agoAlso it seems like the interference shouldn't occur if the vehicle is not moving or is turned off, and that's still useful for emergency situations.
- 2rsf 2y agoBut then you are merely equipping the car with emergency equipment, so why not a knife and water filters?
- _hyn3 2y agoI know you're being sarcastic, but it seems like EVs should probably also come standard with a glass breakage device for fast escape.
- usefulcat 2y agoI generally don't find reductio ad absurdum arguments very convincing. For example: seat belts and air bags add extra cost (a lot more than an AM radio), maybe they should be optional too?
- bcoates 2y agoAs far as I can tell, electric cars are regular old FCC 15b devices, but the emission limits are generous enough that an AM radio can't operate from inside of one, the same way you wouldn't expect an AM radio sitting on top of a generator to do well.
- seizethecheese 2y agoWhy does it feel like regulations always have a well defined safety argument and a less defined, less “important” argument to the contrary?
- tehwebguy 2y agoI recently huddled around a radio with friends and neighbors to see if there were any updates on restoring our power, water, internet or cell service in NC post-Helene. Pretty sure it was FM but I reallllly didn’t expect to ever “need” radio again!
- helf 2y ago[dead]
- dj_gitmo 2y agoI am surprised the a liberal senator would try protecting AM radio. AM talk radio is very right wing and it definitely contributed to the radicalization of the American right-wing. I remember when AM radio was a major boogie man for liberals.
- FergusArgyll 2y agoThe urge to regulate is stronger...
- VyseofArcadia 2y agoWe need to have a conversation, as a society, about how we cannot rely exclusively on complex things with many modes of failure. We need simple tools to stick around for when we hit one of those many modes of failure. I own a robotic vacuum cleaner. I also own a broom.
- j45 2y agoRadio is important. Both in and out of a car. Having one in a car always has it with you when you’re in the car, where a portable one might not be with you or have batteries.
- 1970-01-01 2y agoWhy doesn't someone train AI with AM? It's mostly talk radio, and more factual than the Internet.
- sigmar 2y ago>It's mostly talk radio, and more factual than the Internet. are you joking? coast to coast is worse than 4chan
- kazinator 2y agoIn the Vancouver area of British columbia, Canada, an important AM station recently went defunct: AM 730 Traffic. That was like the only reason to tune into AM anything around here while driving, unless you're into talk radio. Problem with that traffic station model is that you don't have a captive audience. Once the listener groks the traffic situation for their trip, they flip to another station (more likely than not FM, by the way) or their bluetooth or wired connection to their phone. That listener heard one or two ads at most (often none at all). People not driving have no reason to listen, either. All the music stations encourage people to listen all day. "We are here for you while you work, or for your entire drive."
- amatecha 2y agowtf, they shut down AM 730? That's brutal. It used to be essential listening on the drive out to work, back when I actually drove to/from work.
- INTPenis 2y agoWhy don't I ever see a headline like "Congress fights for affordable healthcare for everyone" or "Congress fights for worker's rights for everyone". They're fighting for AM radio instead. Maybe they're not fighting for the people at all. To keep it technical, speaking of a disaster warning system, Israel uses text messages to warn their citizens of attacks. It doesn't get more battle tested than that.
- paganel 2y agoDoesn’t seem to have worked a year ago to this day.
- jve 2y agoTIL that AM radio is still a thing... But I see valid use cases listed. I dunno if it would even click in case of emergency to even try turning to AM instead of FM. I live in Europe, own a US car Toyota Sienna and I cannot use FM radio (completely) because turns out (and I also learned it few weeks ago) that in US, only uneven channels are used (101.3, 101.5, etc). And I cannot tune it to 101.4!
- consp 2y agoCan we at least have non US radios in the EU in that case? AM is dead here, while for the US there might be a use case.
- yourusername 2y agoDoes it matter if your car can receive some extra bands you don't use? I only use DAB in my car but it can receive AM/FM also even if i've never used that functionality.
- juliangmp 2y ago> The radio industry has been fighting back, lobbying for legislation that would force carmakers to install AM radios as a matter of public interest. Kinda stopped reading there, it's clear that this is just a desperate attempt to save a dying market for no reason.
- loongloong 2y agoThe China Government seems to be referencing the USA and EU regulations to also mandate it for vehicles in China https://www.nrta.gov.cn/art/2024/9/19/art_114_68922.html https://www.nrta.gov.cn/art/2024/9/19/art_114_68922.html translated : https://translate.google.com/?sl=auto&tl=en&text=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nrta.gov.cn%2Fart%2F2024%2F9%2F19%2Fart_114_68922.html&op=websites https://translate.google.com/?sl=auto&tl=en&text=https%3A%2F...
- quailfarmer 2y agoWe’ve added digital side bands to “FM” broadcast radio. We’ve fully replaced analog broadcast TV with digital. We can solve this problem, with proper planning. Develop a digital modulation that captures human voice and degrades gracefully, fund the development of ICs to demodulate it, require AM stations to install a new modulation equipment, and gradually migrating all stations to a hybrid mode with both analog and digital transmission. All new cars must use the new version, which is far more resilient to interference. In 50 years you get to turn the analog transmissions off.
- tjohns 2y agoWhy would you turn the analog transmission off? Being able to pick up a station with virtually any radio ever built, or even a simple circuit you can build from spare parts in your house [1]...even if you're on the fringe edge of reception (though it might not sound great) is entire point of AM. You would be throwing all of that away. Digital is a convenience. Analog is a lifeline. [1]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxhole_radio https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxhole_radio
- alnwlsn 2y agoThis already exists - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_Radio https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_Radio
- sandworm101 2y agoNo mention of the relevant politics? AM radio is talk radio, the home of the strongest political opinions. AM radio targets a narrow demographic: those with enough money to own a car and drive to work, but not sophisticated/rich enough to pay for streaming services. The protection of AM also rings true with the older generation who wish to slow or reverse the pace of technological change. I realize that HN attempts to avoid politics but this is a solidly partisan issue and part of the larger "culture war".
- Eumenes 2y ago> AM radio targets a narrow demographic: those with enough money to own a car and drive to work, but not sophisticated/rich enough to pay for streaming services. 91.7% of American households have at least one vehicle. Podcasts are free?
- childintime 2y agoAny time my car radio switches to AM there is major discomfort. It's time to say goodbye, and the future should be on the phone. Any time congress gets involved many millions are spent. Again when a law is passed. Again by the manufacturers. These costs mandate the future should be supported, not the past. Mandate that cell towers, at least along major highways, survive indefinitely on solar. A degraded service level would be acceptable, no video for example. Require satellite internet fallback! Do it now. Any highway parking spot should have abundant charging opportunities (on solar) and drinking fountains. Prepare for the inevitable big disasters coming.
- googledocsftw 2y agoA bit of crackle and you wanna throw out AM?
- childintime 2y agoNo, AM is never used. So there is no station, just some loud hammering noises. The urge to get rid of that makes driving more dangerous.
- mensetmanusman 2y agoNational security means anti-fragile technology.
- sanj 2y agoA recent software update enables AM radio in Ford EVs: https://es.ford.com/support/how-tos/ford-technology/software-update-highlights/am-broadcast-radio-software-update/ https://es.ford.com/support/how-tos/ford-technology/software...
- FrustratedMonky 2y agoIt's such a no-brainer to keep the AM option, I'm not sure why this is controversial. It's like we've become so comfortable we've forgotten the experience of a disaster. So comfortable with our phones always being on. Who wants digital lock in during an Emergency. Phone : Alert. "We've been notified there is an Emergency in your area, please download the app to find out more"
- kj4ips 2y agoI have a vehicle w/o AM radio, and our local traffic authority uses an AM station for traffic and other civil alerts. It's really annoying that it is absent. The FM is also an afterthought, the antenna system under-performs horribly, and appears to actually be //inside// the cabin.
- javier_e06 2y agoThere was a Netflix movie last year or so about an attack on the US where people outside NYC was meandering aimlessly trying to get Internet signal in their phones while NYC appeared to be under attack I they where lost without their phones. Are people that dense? All military radios support AM radio waveform I would not purchase a vehicle without AM radio support.
- albrewer 2y ago> Are people that dense? did you not observe 30% of the world population's actions between 2020 and 2023?
- jlv2 2y agoI owned cars with an AM radio for 30 years. I never used it. I've now owned cars without an AM radio for 10 years. I don't miss it.
- sn 2y agoThe way to do this is with MA3, not traditional AM: https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2020/12/03/2020-25252/all-digital-am-broadcasting-revitalization-of-the-am-radio-service https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2020/12/03/2020-25... "In addition, digital broadcasting allows visual and other metadata, such as song and artist identification, station identification, and emergency information, to be transmitted along with the audio content." https://www.radioworld.com/tech-and-gear/upgrading-an-am-to-all-digital-why-how-and-lessons-learned https://www.radioworld.com/tech-and-gear/upgrading-an-am-to-... It looks like MA3 has a longer range: https://www.radioworld.com/columns-and-views/guest-commentaries/all-digital-ma3 https://www.radioworld.com/columns-and-views/guest-commentar...
- adolph 2y agoA moderately compelling argument for mandating AM radio receivers in vehicles is that AM Radio has an incumbent position in emergency broadcast of communications. Would a small portable radio optionally powered by a vehicle's accessory port suffice? Does the AM Radio feature need to be tightly integrated with the vehicle's other systems? Here is an example of one that retails for $11, albeit using 2x AA batteries. https://www.amazon.com/J-166-Transistor-Excellent-Reception-PRUNUS/dp/B09KBX1BHF/ https://www.amazon.com/J-166-Transistor-Excellent-Reception-...
- diebeforei485 2y agoI have a portable AM/FM/WB radio in case of earthquakes or other disasters (it's the Wirecutter recommended one). This regulation seems somewhat sensible but I'm not sure what the point is if it interferes with EV motors.
- Componica 2y agoIn our area of the rural Midwest, a local AM station made a niche for themselves being the critical go to point of information during tornado, storm, flooding, and derecho warnings. Sadly as the storms keep showing up more often and more powerful, I've actual bought a couple more portable AM/FM radios spread around the house because of it. There have been several times being in a car during those warnings that that AM station was the only reliable source of information.