8 ms·
Ford patents in-car system that eavesdrops so it can play you ads
- jokellum 2y agoLouis rossmann video talking about this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5euh13nd10g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5euh13nd10g Had a decision earlier this year to buy a Tesla vs a dumber car. 2019 Silverado I think has the best middle ground on terms of "smart" tech that is still easy to repair and doesn't sell my info to insurance companies.
- garbagewoman 2y agoIts ok, nobody asked for Louis Rossmans disingenuous take on anything
- wruza 2y agoWhy hate the guy? He has a real repair shop afaik, and mostly talks sense.
- garbagewoman 2y agoIf you know the vaguest thing about the topic he is talking about, you will know that he frequently omits critical context in order to get clicks. I am guessing that is what you mean by “mostly talks sense”
- userbinator 2y agoUnfortunately that's a disease that has infected nearly all Youtubers beyond a certain level of popularity.
- wruza 2y agoThere’s an effect (forgot the name) when you read an article about your area of expertise and think it’s awful. But then you read something you don’t know in the same journal and its okay. Are you sure that’s not the case here? I mean, I don’t watch Louis and blocked him due to my non-interest and him being populist-ish with auditory, but talking this way about him is too much, imo.
- garbagewoman 2y agoThis isn’t about the effect you are referring to. He has domain knowledge about what he is talking about. He isn’t Fox News 6 Cincinnati.
- wruza 2y agoThis reference doesn’t help me understand the issue. He disingenuous and omits critical context, isn’t fox news. Well, fine, I guess.
- topspin 2y ago> still easy to repair By the time you get to 2019 and the GM T1XX platform the entire drivetrain is as complex as any modern vehicle: AFM/DFM, VVT, E85, Active Thermal Management, Start/Stop, 10L80/90, dynamic stability, etc. In other words, once it starts breaking down out of warranty, repair is uneconomic: non-dealer shops and owners don't have the tools, can't get affordable parts and aren't qualified to do the work, just like all other modern vehicles. The last years that GM trucks were actually easy and cost effective to repair, but still relatively "modern" (decent PCM, effective air bags, standard anti-lock, etc.,) were 1999-2006 (GMT800) and 2007-2014 (GMT900), the former more so than the latter. Any professional mechanic can successfully repair almost anything on the vehicle and parts are readily available at reasonable cost.
- moandcompany 2y agoMid-2000s era car technology seems to have been the sweet spot across most brands for technology improvements while still having practical serviceability and maintainability.
- topspin 2y agoI'd agree with that timeline with regard to US domestic truck platforms, which famously lagged cars in complexity by about a decade. A lot of 2000's cars definitely do not qualify. The notion of a "sweet spot" is valid. All the classic safety and reliability problems were solved, yet the vehicles (again, truck platforms) are tractable in terms of service.
- DougN7 2y agoI don’t think manufacturers are purposely making the cars harder to repair - they have to meet stricter and stricter fuel and air quality standards, so need more and more tech to squeeze out more /same performance while burning less fuel, or burning more thoroughly.
- topspin 2y agoSure. This is all self evident. Understanding the motivations of manufacturers, however, yields little value: the products they're making now are post-warranty disposable, despite the staggering cost and whatever intent manufacturers might have. All of this has produced amazing ICE engineering. GM's base model gas truck engine, the L3B, is making 325hp from 166ci under 27psi of boost. Such ratios tell you everything you need to know about the long term fate of that drivetrain: there is zero margin for error, because everything is operating very near the limit of materials science and the capabilities of advanced manufacturing. When it fails, shortly after the warranty expires, fixing it will not be economic.
- isoprophlex 2y agoFrom the article: > there’s a recognition that an occupant’s “natural inclination to seek minimal or no ads” should be balanced with “maximum opportunity for ad-based monetization.” Or, you know, you just don't try to monetize every fucking second your users interact with your (expensive, paid-for) product. Every day we get just a little closer to the future Philip K Dick promised us in Ubik: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=Ubik%20door%20joe%20chip&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
- nicbou 2y agoThey really said the quiet part out loud
- autoexec 2y ago> It could also identify your voice and recognize you and your ad preferences, and those of your passengers. This must be a quote from Ford right? Here's a hint Ford, you don't need voice recognition for that because the ad preference of everyone in the car is always that you don't push ads at us.
- PeterStuer 2y agoI think you are misundrrstanding the 'your' in the qoute. It is not refering to 'what you prefer', but to what ad-preference profile is associated with you in the adiverse.
- hinkley 2y agoI always feel weirdly conflicted about people patenting things that I’d rather nobody use at all. There was a “clever” CSS trick a coworker did to take a simple task and make it into a daredevil stunt. Just baffling that someone would want to do it that way. I guess someone thought it was novel because they talked about patenting it. My response was, “by all means please do. I never want to see this again in the next 19 years.” They interpreted that as criticism and decided not to pursue it. I’m not sure how they saw through my subterfuge. It’s a mystery.
- barelycompetent 2y agoThe title is false and the article is click bait fake outrage spam. This is a published application for a patent. It has not been granted. The success rate for patent applications is surprisingly low. This will likely never be granted, or granted after many limitations* have been added by Ford. Last, just because Ford is trying to patent something does not mean they will ever actually implement that IRL. * "Limitation" has a specific meaning in patent law.
- b112 2y agoWhat does the patent being granted have to do with anything? At all? Whether Ford is granted or not granted the patent is irrelevant in this conversation, the fact it attempted to patent it is the issue. What the patent office does has no relevance here at all. None. Nada. And every company that even thinks like this should be publicly lambasted, raked over the coals, and shunned!
- esquivalience 2y agoI'd be more sympathetic to this response if the article didn't begin with: > Yeah, you read the headline right. Ford has patented a system... The fact is that it is not protected by a patent. That said, the fact that they are _trying_ to and investing in their attempts is indeed worth attention, as it indicates they think it's a good idea. Just without the sloppy reporting.
- barelycompetent 2y agoThe point is that the title is false. Ford hasn't patented this.
- b112 2y agoThat's fine. I would not have responded if you simply stated this. However by discussing how the patent may not be approved, in the same post where you say ford may not use it, you give the impression you think there is a moral or ethical difference for Ford between the patent being approved or not. There isn't.
- b112 2y agoI thought it'd be Waymo first: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38010602 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38010602
- poikroequ 2y agoI guess one good thing about this patent is it may prevent other automakers from implementing such systems.
- TheDong 2y agoPatents can be licensed, and automakers are already effectively at a patent stalemate, so any enforcement is unlikely. Just like Microsoft's various patents on Linux haven't stopped companies from making Android phones, just resulted in some of them paying Microsoft money for patent licensing.
- petepete 2y agoI only listen to ad free radio while driving. The thought that the tranquility of Radio 3 would be interrupted by an advert disgusts me. I would never buy a car that had this, no matter how smart it was.
- dehrmann 2y agoGood news is it prevents anyone else from doing it, too.
- x3y1 2y agoThis is a wonderful idea. Patent obnoxious inventions to prevent anyone from implementing them.
- noisy_boy 2y agoNothing stops others from licensing them.
- x3y1 2y agoIn the US at least, it would be the patent holder’s choice if they want to license their patent (in most situations, if I understand correctly). When I patent advertising on vegetables, I won’t let anyone license it.
- uvesten 2y agoLike this? https://www.schweizerbauer.ch/markt-preise/marktmeldungen/laser-logo-auf-obst-und-gemuese/ https://www.schweizerbauer.ch/markt-preise/marktmeldungen/la... (Sorry, article is in german, it’s about laser-engraved fruits and vegetables. I’ve seen a few in the stores around here… (Switzerland))
- graemep 2y agoThey do no have to license it, but they probably will. It will probably be included in cross-licensing agreements.
- FerretFred 2y agoDriving along in (say) a Datsun, and suddenly hearing an ad saying"wouldn't you rather be driving a cool new Ford?"
- ziofill 2y ago
- moandcompany 2y agoThe dystopian future of mobility will be free-to-ride, self-driving cars operating as taxis where we have to pay to exit and are incentivized to pay to opt-out of ads.
- a2128 2y agoNon-premium subscription users will be driven through less efficient routes and dirt roads to increase ad watchtime and reduce congestion for premium customers. If you don't tip the driverless car in advance, it may choose to eject you at any point, potentially leaving you even further from your destination than you were
- 93po 2y agoI bet the more likely option is that it will force you to drive through a restaurant drive through whether you want to buy something there or not. Most people are gonna be like "I'm here and having to wait anyway, I may as well". I know it'd work on me if I wouldn't refuse out of the principle of it
- heresie-dabord 2y ago> self-driving [...] taxis where we have to pay to exit "Would you like an Economy Exit or a Business Class Exit? For a Business Class Exit, the vehicle will come to a complete stop before opening the door."
- Sharlin 2y agoHonestly, the sort of future wouldn’t bother me where the unsustainable mode (cars) would have to use ads to help cover what are now negative externalities, and walking, biking, and transit would be the ad-free options. But of course it won’t be like that.
- Telemakhos 2y agoThat sounds like a maintenance nightmare. Owners maintain vehicles, renters have no incentive to, but people who feel trapped in a vehicle that requires an exit fee and treats them adversarially with ads will feel incentivized to vandalize the vehicle.
- UberFly 2y agoWhen I'm filling my gas tank and the screen on the pump is blaring ads at me I want to smash it. Car companies, please don't also make us want to smash our dash-boards.
- TaylorAlexander 2y agoThose gas station ads are so offensive to the senses. I want so desperately for them to stop. I used to live near Cupertino, and the Valero station on De Anza and Prospect always played the local classical radio station. Driving a car is pretty tiring, and to take a break and have loud ads projected at you only adds to the stress. To instead step out of your car to modestly amplified classical music is really much better. I always made a point to stop at that specific station for gas. We really need to be more mindful of the world we create for one another.
- wruza 2y agoWhat we really need is to stop praising CEO and marketing idiots who do that and normalize punching bad people in the face. There’s too much of them in the world who do bad things consciously and cover behind ignorance and inaccessibility. Atrocious interactions by technical means should be considered misdemeanors and treated respectively. There’s no difference between a flashing ads screen and a street sales guy buzzing in your ear, a car playing ads at you and a guy knocking on your window selling nonsense. Voting with your money doesn’t work when you normalize screaming at you with no consequences.
- lostlogin 2y agoDigital signs with super bright lights are just so dystopian. We can be far away from vigilantes killing them. I’d sponsor the odd hit.
- saagarjha 2y agoYeah, until you realize why they're doing it. Hint: it's to drive away "undesirables" like roaming teenagers and homeless people.
- bobim 2y agoHow can you design a car with safety in mind and then propose this? Driver's attention is not available for anything but the road in principle. At anytime. Ford is Boeinging or what?
- al_borland 2y agoI’m no fan of ads, but by your logic this would also mean no radio/music, no cup holders, or anything else that could shift attention off the road. Where does the line get drawn?
- waterhouse 2y agoOne could argue that the whole point of ads is to draw your attention and put things into your memory, which is not necessarily the case for those other things. Some radio programs probably are meant to draw attention, but you could notice this and switch away, which brings us to... > Where does the line get drawn? Ideally by the person who knows most intimately how badly you're being distracted, i.e. you. (Until they get the ability to scan your brain.)
- al_borland 2y agoSelf reporting of distraction doesn’t seem to work so good, as evidenced by the number of people texting, scrolling social, or whatever else on their phone, while driving. Before phone, we still saw men shaving and women putting on their makeup. I have 0 faith in people to self regulate and avoid distractions while driving. At least at a population level.
- eth0up 2y ago>Where does the line get drawn? At eavesdropping. It's so absurd.. I think anything goes at this point, so long as the line gets pushed back a bit.
- carlmr 2y agoMusic is something people want. It can help people concentrate and stay alert. Cup holders allow you to have a good place to put your drink without being distracted. They help you keep attention on the road by not spilling your coffee on your lap. Ads don't help anybody with staying alert or doing any other tasks in the car. They're meant to capture your attention for selling you something.
- BLKNSLVR 2y agoI'm not sure how unexpected audio/video will go with driving regulations. I've got a 2009 car that makes me click "agree" before i can change the radio station.
- tjpnz 2y agoI'm thinking of patenting a system where many consumers make a conscious decision not to buy their next car from Ford.
- LtWorf 2y agoUnfortunately people might not know that in advance.
- bryanrasmussen 2y agoKA-CHING - now everybody who wants to make an eavesdropping car system that plays you ads will have to pay Ford in order to add this feature to their cars!
- nprateem 2y agoThat's literally why patents exist.
- bryanrasmussen 2y agoyes, but there are also reasons why irony exists. Especially if you layer it just right.
- nprateem 2y agoIronically I don't think think you know what irony is.
- bryanrasmussen 2y agoshall I explain the ironies of the situation? I wouldn't think it necessary.
- buro9 2y agoI'm not sure it's patentable given that smart TVs already do this, the prior art is obvious.
- LtWorf 2y agoBut not "in a car"… see it's completely different now!
- globalnode 2y agowheres it going to get the ads from if your not connected to any data channel? is it going to store them on the car? get them from wireless towers? or just assume a data channel perhaps.
- yashg 2y agoEverything is becoming about ads. Ads, ads everywhere. On phone, on computer, now even car. This despite everyone knowing that consumers HATE ads. It's like companies are using ads as a ransom. Pay us more money on a regular basis else we will make your life miserable with ads and more ads.
- 9dev 2y agoAnd then, once everyone is paying more, they pull the coup de grace, and show you ads again! Netflix and Prime and Spotify started with this a while ago; I guess the temptation is just too big to let corporate greed run free. I guess we’ve come full circle, and the next iteration will see people pirating stuff again. It’s going to be interesting to see what we can do against ads on devices like cars though…
- lostlogin 2y ago> It’s going to be interesting to see what we can do against ads on devices like cars though If you can find a way to get by with minimal car use, it’s amazing. Not possible for many/most, but wow is Ford trying to push people away. > the next iteration will see people pirating stuff again With automation the world has become amazing. The first rule of fight club applies.
- a1o 2y ago> The first rule of fight club applies You wouldn't download a car?
- 9dev 2y agoWell, I don’t know. Buying a dumb TV is more expensive than getting a „smart“ one these days, and I understand why. Doubt it will be different with cars.
- effingwewt 2y agoI don't. You aren't signing some contract that the item will cost less woth ads- because it doesn't. They charge us more for a dumb tv because they know we hate ads enough to pay more to lose them. Ad companies have become actual Mafia. They should be paying us for our attention. Period.
- leemailll 2y agoimaging ford is granted and then sue around and win
- dukeofdoom 2y agoIn-Car System That Eavesdrops So It Can alert authorities
- theginger 2y agoHow is this patentable? This is existing tech used in a way that has been speculated about for nearly 20 years. This is not an innovation or invention.
- nicce 2y agoSomething recently relevant: https://www.dexerto.com/tech/google-facebook-partner-admits-it-can-listen-to-device-microphone-to-serve-ads-2888041/ https://www.dexerto.com/tech/google-facebook-partner-admits-...
- franga2000 2y agoEverything is patentable if your patent lawyer is expensive enough
- LightBug1 2y agoI'm never buying a car newer that, say, 2000 ever again.
- ivanjermakov 2y agoToo bad most laws require[1] every car to have ABS, ESP and other electronic features not present in cars of that era. https://web.archive.org/web/20160918065210/http://www.nhtsa.gov/Laws+%26+Regulations/Electronic+Stability+Control+%28ESC%29 https://web.archive.org/web/20160918065210/http://www.nhtsa....
- LightBug1 2y agoOk, I'll just stick with my 69 Bug.
- spencerflem 2y agoThat just applies to new cars, you can still drive the old ones legally
- oldpersonintx 2y ago[dead]
- aucisson_masque 2y ago> Submitting patent applications is a normal part of any strong business as the process protects new ideas and helps us build a robust portfolio of intellectual property. The ideas described within a patent application should not be viewed as an indication of our business or product plans. Who are they kidding seriously ? In my country they sell Dacia car, that's the cheapest and 'shitiest' car you can buy that is made in Europe. It has very few electronic so few bullshit, even the windows doesn't have electrical motor for the passenger At least you don't get Ford creeping on you.
- Ylpertnodi 2y agoIn my eu country, Dacia is not considered the "shitiest" by a long, long way for exactly the reason you give: no bullshit.
- icebergonfire 2y ago> even the windows doesn't have electrical motor for the passenger I guess this may depend on the specific trim you purchase? I personally have a 2022 Jogger something or other and all of my windows are push-button electric.
- aucisson_masque 2y agoYes,i may be wrong about other car because i only checked the sandero.
- khana 2y ago[dead]
- ziofill 2y agoAnd I guess disconnecting the microphones will void the warranty?
- Tempest1981 2y ago> It could also identify your voice and recognize you and your ad preferences, and those of your passengers Imagine the ads an Uber driver will be receiving, after chatting with hundreds of random passengers a month.
- Bluestein 2y agoThey will monetize the time spent in your car. The car is yours. Your time is theirs to market.-
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- PeterStuer 2y agoCould we reference the STASI as prior art?
- agys 2y agoNot directly related but a small town in Switzerland decided to ban public advertisement (billboards). The motivation is to avoid visual noise/pollution and “We didn’t recognize any public interest in having billboards”. https://www.msn.com/en-ph/money/markets/a-swiss-town-banned-billboards-zurich-bern-may-soon-follow/ar-BB1qEmXa https://www.msn.com/en-ph/money/markets/a-swiss-town-banned-...
- jajko 2y agoWell whole country has pleasantly few ads everywhere. No ads along roads and highways for example. Drive to eastern more primitive parts of EU and many massive billboards will try to steal your attention constantly, everywhere. One of easy examples of corruption in plain sight, yes mostly nobody cares.
- Eddy_Viscosity2 2y agoPeople do care, but institutional corruption is just to hard to fight once ingrained. Others may simply just not know anything different because that's how its always been.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- ssss11 2y agoOh great
- quacksilver 2y agoI wonder if you will get car radios with an 'ad-blocker' that will cut out radio ads and play their own in the gaps created. Sort of like Brave browser was trying to do. Would this be legal?
- jmclnx 2y agoWell I have added ford to my what is becoming a long list of Autos I will never buy.
- mceachen 2y agoUnfortunately this has been in the works for years already—this is from 2021: https://www.vice.com/en/article/ford-wants-billboards-to-beam-distracting-ads-to-screens-inside-your-car/ https://www.vice.com/en/article/ford-wants-billboards-to-bea...
- floressandra5 2y ago[dead]