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Homebound: The Long-Term Rise in Time Spent at Home Among U.S. Adults

160 points by o_nate 2y ago

janalsncm 2y ago
Is this not explained by remote work? Some portion of adults who used to spend ~50 hours at an office and commuting are spending it at home.
- i_read_news 2y ago
  That’s a factor, but there are other reasons. Saving money, more online entertainment, the general shift of things done in person are now online, and the dark patterns that keep us tied there.
  - zem 2y ago
    also the increasing unavailability and/or inviability of third spaces where you can just hang out without having to spend a ton of money and deal with unpleasant environments
    - bpodgursky 2y ago
      I really don't think this is the reason. Third places are demand-driven, there are a lot of places where a $2 coffee buys you an afternoon. People aren't bothering.
      - pavel_lishin 2y ago
        > there are a lot of places where a $2 coffee buys you an afternoon. But there also isn't much reason to go there if nobody else does. A weird network-effect thing, right? Like, I didn't bother walking down to the local Chilean bakery that serves food because it's mostly empty most of the time, and there's only so much I can chat to the folks working there about as a stranger who lives down the street.
      - mlinhares 2y ago
        They're not, they're made, just look at all the open streets projects happening all over the world, and specially in Europe. You need people activelly building these third places for them to exist and for people to go there. The US is building most of its new homes in anti-social car controlled environments, where you can't walk anywhere, everything has to be done by driving. Kids can't just roam the neighborhoods anymore and when they do people start asking if they should call the cops. We are sick and it doesn't look like there is much thinking in how to fix it.
      - chubot 2y ago
        You used US dollars as your unit, but I don’t think there’s anywhere in the US where coffee cost $2 anymore Granted I live in more expensive areas, but still
    - mjyoon 2y ago
      I don't buy this - there are third spaces where you don't need to spend money and they've been here forever and are usually accessible. Churches, libraries, parks, certain community recreational facilities, gyms ,etc. It's not a lack of spaces, it's an issue of getting to those spaces.
      - arccy 2y ago
        - churches: not really for the non religious - libraries: not if you want to actually talk to people - parks: only if the weather cooperates - certain community recreational facilities: spend money? too activity oriented - gyms: same as above
        mjyoon 2y ago
        The original poster said "spend a ton of money" (those places you spend money but not a "ton") and I've included churches as an example. This short list isn't comprehensive. Also, have you been to a library recently? There are now spaces where you can socialize and meet.
        shiroiushi 2y ago
        >The original poster said "spend a ton of money" (those places you spend money but not a "ton") Then why'd you put gyms in your list? You DO have to spend a ton of money to get a gym membership. And you can't cancel it because you have to sign a ridiculous contract and basically file a lawsuit to end the membership (not really, but it seems almost this bad).
        vel0city 2y ago
        > You DO have to spend a ton of money to get a gym membership. I've been off and on user of several different gyms over the years. I don't recall actually paying for a gym membership myself. It's usually been a gym at my apartment complex, or a gym at the office park where I work, or my employer covered a gym membership, or I got it through health insurance.
    - MattGaiser 2y ago
      Anecdotally, several managers of such spaces tell me they are dying from lack of use. I know my parents used them, but I never did. My friends used them a bit in university but stopped once they could afford something different. My local community centre's calendar has dried up, despite the space still being there. New neighborhoods sometimes don't even bother to build one now where I am, as there is no demand. Nobody demolished the churches or the libraries, but they have rapidly aging user bases. Rotary and other similar social clubs would love younger members, but younger people don't want them.
      - msds 2y ago
        As a consequence of the aging members, a lot of churches (particularly the less virulent mainstream protestant flavor) around here are merging congregations and getting demolished, to be replaced with more apartment buildings. Sometimes the parishioners will fight the good fight and get concessions made for affordable housing or other social goods.
  - ricksunny 2y ago
    Which particular dark patterns would you be referring to? Sounds intriguing, and the article doesn't mention dark patterns.
    - i_read_news 2y ago
      That’s my own take, not actual direct causation. But for example, I’ve experienced and witnessed time taken by endless scrolling design (I.e. TikTok) which could have been spent socially. Since I’ve take time away from such apps with patterns, I feel generally more content, but results may vary.
  - VancouverMan 2y ago
    A lot of formerly-enjoyable leisure activities outside the home have become a lot loss fun over the last few decades, too. I know a lot of people in the US, and especially Canada, who've stopped going to restaurants for example. They now cost too much, the food is often mediocre or even outright bad, the service is often terrible, parking can be an issue in some cities, and it's generally a miserable experience. Cooking at home, even if takes more effort, ends up being comparatively more enjoyable. That's also the case for movies, concerts, sporting events, exhibitions, and tourist venues. The tickets cost a lot relative to the enjoyment that's provided, and the pricing of food and drinks at such events can be astronomical. It has just become prohibitively expensive, especially for families, in addition to the other inconveniences (such as travel and parking) that can be associated with such events. Even something as simple as going to a beach or a lake has become an awful experience in Canada. A problem at Canadian beaches has been foreigners defecating in the sand, rather than using the proper washroom facilities. Even when that isn't happening, such places can be quite crowded and nowhere near as fun as they were in the past when they were quieter. I certainly can't blame people for not wanting to subject themselves to unpleasant experiences like those.
    - MattGaiser 2y ago
      Options have also expanded. The options are also not cooking at home vs going to a restaurant. There is now food delivery. It used to be that the only way to get ribs was to make them yourself or go to a restaurant and order them. But now a majority of my rib consumption is via Uber Eats. Movies used to be either in a theatre or a grainy home screen. The home screen is no longer grainy. Same with sports. You have to want the atmosphere to go to a game now. Beaches being crowded indicates use, so I wouldn't put it into the category of restaurant visits, movies, and sports, which are all declining categories overall.
      - freeone3000 2y ago
        We have a lot more people but the same amount of beach — even if people spend more total time at the beach, on average every person goes less often.
      - 2y ago
- toomuchtodo 2y ago
  Why go out if home is more comfortable?
- nox101 2y ago
  For me it's explained by (1) less shopping because I order online (2) more entertainment/distraction from online stuff (movies, youtube, tech news, anime, streamers, ....) (3) less office friends IMO partly because WFH. It's not that I'm spending time at home because I working, it's that I'm not going out with co-workers after work because we aren't starting the evening together like we used to. (3b) Same as above, I'm already at home because WFH so it's an effort to "go out". Where as when it was WFO I'd already be "out" and then stay out somewhere before coming home. Honestly I hate WFH. I know it's not coming back but "my" life is definitely worse because of WFH. I get that that's not true for many others.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - throwaway22032 2y ago
    WFH is fast food. It's more convenient and cheaper but worse for you.
    - phelddagrif 2y ago
      yes the extra 2 hours a day I get to spend with my wife and children is terrible for me. it's so obvious now.
mixtureoftakes 2y ago
[flagged]
samschooler 2y ago
Looking at the paper, page 564 [0] has the component graph. Looks like the key contributors are (in order of contribution): - Work-Related Activities (~35 minutes more at home) - Sleeping - Assumed at Home (~25 minutes more at home) - Leisure - Not On Computer (~22 minutes more at home) What I find interesting, is the key differences in total time spent. There seems to be generally more time spent sleeping actually (~25 more minutes), and that time comes from a decrease in socializing (-~15 minutes), and transportation (commuting, -~20 minutes). Overall, less commuting and more sleep seems good, but a decrease in socialization is not great, a full 1 3/4 hours a week decrease. [0]: https://sociologicalscience.com/download/vol_11/august/SocSci_v11_553to578_updated.pdf https://sociologicalscience.com/download/vol_11/august/SocSc...
- dawnerd 2y ago
  How is fewer hours of socializing bad? Maybe if you're the kind of person that things you have to always be in a social setting but there's lots of us that just want alone time. If I could get even an hour less a day around anyone else that would be massive for my mental health.
  - DiggyJohnson 2y ago
    Sure that's sometimes the case. But on the whole I would bet that the average American is more physically and emotionally isolated from their peers outside their immediate family or housemates than any other society in history. The analogy that came to mind was to image advising firefighters to avoid drowning the cat when they're trying to put out a house fire.
  - acabajoe 2y ago
    Americans at least are statistically lonelier now than they were before and it has a measurable negative effect on health. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/why-americans-are-lonelier-and-its-effects-on-our-health https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/why-americans-are-lonelier...
  - therealdrag0 2y ago
    There have been studies that found even inane socialization like ordering from a barista in person boosts happiness. Not everything we think we want is what our animal brain and body needs.
hintymad 2y ago
Maybe a trajectory question: will the US have a lot of people like Japan's Hikikomori?
- cpitman 2y ago
  I heard the term NEET (not in employment education or training) used for the first time on western media last week. I usually associate the term with Japan and the Hikikomori issues.
  - edu 2y ago
    In Spain and other LATAM countries we have the concept of "ni-ni" (ni estudia, ni trabaja = neither studies nor works). Although I'm pretty sure a lot of them don't spend all their time at home.
  - creata 2y ago
    Fun(-ish) fact: Although it's strongly associated with and was popularized by Japan, the term "NEET" came from Britain.
- bluefirebrand 2y ago
  I think the main thing preventing this from happening a lot in NA is how difficult it would be to maintain without family paying for everything But there's absolutely people with big trust funds or inheritances living this way. I knew a bunch of people who basically lived like this during COVID because of relief payments and they only very reluctantly found jobs again after it became clear that COVID payments were done and UBI was not on the near horizon. There's a similar category of people in the USA and Canada as well that I don't have a term for. They're just as checked out really, bouncing between part time minimum wage jobs. They tend to live with like 5 roommates all doing the same thing they are. They work as few hours as possible to pay for rent and food. Any money left over is going to weed/booze/both and videogames I think it's the same person who would be a Hikikomori, just adapted to NA economic realities
  - Dracophoenix 2y ago
mensetmanusman 2y ago
In Farming and Hunter days, we spent all the time at home.
- ok_dad 2y ago
  I’ve come to appreciate my home. I spend thousands of dollars a month on it, why wouldn’t I be there enjoying and maintaining it most of my time? I think the modern idea that you have to be out and about constantly is linked to our consumer culture and growth oriented economy. They want us to be out spending money we don’t have.
  - 331c8c71 2y ago
    For me the first association with "out" is "outdoors".
    - ok_dad 2y ago
      My house is quite nice, I live right next to a big park that's basically a cool forest with tons of short trails that take only a few minutes to traverse. I can go for a walk for 15 minutes through there from 9-5 every day other than Christmas!
  - dotnet00 2y ago
    Agreed. Every time we get a thread like this, the majority opinion seems to be to call it a bad thing and to blame technology. But, why shouldn't we be enjoying the place that is supposed to be our own? I can get a lot more work done when allowed to just be comfy working in my room without many disturbances. I can work on my hobbies and socialize with people who have the same hobbies, without any of us having to be able to come over.
  - 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 2y ago
    I live alone, so I get bored of being alone. When my girlfriend is over, I still want to meet other people. Before my divorce, I wanted to meet other people and not just be around my spouse all day.
- deleted 2y ago
steve1977 2y ago
If I understand correctly, the article looks at data from 2003 to 2022. I’m not sure if I would call that long-term. What about 1922 to 2022 for example? Or even longer. From what I understand from my parents and grandparents (I’m Gen X), they did quite a lot of stuff at home (i.e. meet friends, make music etc.) Going out was the exception, not the norm.
- advisedwang 2y ago
  Depends on what "going out" you mean. Restaurants - sure. But it seems plausible "a drink with colleagues after work" or "taking the kids to the library" or "going to a church activity" have all declined since the 1920s
  - steve1977 2y ago
    My one grandfather was a carpenter with a workshop in his basement for example. I’m pretty sure “a drink with colleagues after work” was very rarely a thing for him.
SoftTalker 2y ago
> Preliminary analysis indicates that time at home is associated with lower levels of happiness and less meaning I wonder if this is something that needs a closer look. I enjoy spending time at home. I'd rather be at home than pretty much anywhere else. Even before the pandemic I felt this way. The pandemic itself was like a vacation.
- eitally 2y ago
  I think it depends a lot on both the individual and how the time is spent at home. For folks who have engaging hobbies and other activities that lend themselves to home-based practice, it's entirely different than those for whom time at home is basically being shut-in and reclusive with little mental & emotional stimulation.
  - s1artibartfast 2y ago
    And also depends on if you have people over and a lot of human interaction in your home. Hosting a BBQ dinner party with family and friends it's obviously different than sitting alone browsing Netflix or reddit
  - jaredcwhite 2y ago
    > time at home is basically being shut-in and reclusive with little mental & emotional stimulation Me! That's me! I can barely even get to a mere 24 hours at home without feeling stir-crazy, and more than that you might as well dump ants all over my skin. But I'm very aware of other people (including family members I know) who are perfectly fine with days spent going nowhere…perhaps rarely even leaving their room. It makes no sense to me, but clearly this issue is very personality-dependent.
  - ethbr1 2y ago
    > engaging hobbies It's an important point. To use a nutrition metaphor, there are many new easily-available empty calories at home these days, that weren't previously available. The web. Online gaming. Social media. Streaming. Yet venturing outside into a social environment delivers a higher minimum level of nutritional value. You see other breathing humans, experience empathy and nature, and move your body. And critically... exercise being comfortable with being uncomfortable. (Aka, life) One of the quickest paths to crazy these days is becoming too comfortable in a stable, static, self-reinforcing life. You don't get any feedback that you're drifting pretty far off the median. (I mean, has anyone actually seen the Earth's curvature...?) Reality has a well-known bias towards reinforcing common sense and reminding you when you're wrong.
t-writescode 2y ago
We continue to lose our third spaces and a cohesive weekly ritual. Even places that flourished because they were third spaces, like Starbucks, are dropping their seating to lower numbers to “get rid of the riff raff” or whatever. The US is hilariously car-centric and when you’re not driving to go to work, there’s less of an urge to drive at any time; and, without walkability too, there’s even more loss in socializing. It’s all a net loss.
- chubot 2y ago
  Didn’t WFH mean that many people lost their second place? I remember reading about the third place many years ago, but that idea requires a second place!
  - SubiculumCode 2y ago
    Home. Work. And your third place.
  - katzinsky 2y ago
    Good riddance. As someone who still had third and even fourth places now I can focus on those.
  - t-writescode 2y ago
    "Third Space" - I admit, I should have capitalized it, since it's a proper noun. Third Space is a term coined to mean "not work nor home" and it was constructed during a time when WFH wasn't much of a thing. I use it because the term has a meaning that I intend to convey, not necessarily because it is a person's 'third main space' anymore. It was the place people gathered. Church, the bar, local park, etc.
    - chubot 2y ago
      I'm familiar with what a "third place" is ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_place https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_place I'm just remarking that the role of the second place -- the office -- has also been diminished Obviously you don't literally need the "second place" to have the "third place" -- but my point was that in-person interaction has been reduced even further, compared to the 1990's Probably in 1990, few people would have predicted that the second place would also go away, at least for some affluent part of the population
OutOfHere 2y ago
If I was not going to look for a remote job before, I'm definitely going to look for one now.
SubiculumCode 2y ago
It would help if being outside your house didn't mean spending a bunch of money...but in so many towns, that's all there is to find: Stores and restaurants, or a small yucky space on a bench between unsavory individuals with a drug habit. I've seen the EU pubs, yes beer, but also coffee, some money is spent, but it's also open to prolonged conversations with neighbors without looks at you to leave right away.
cm2012 2y ago
It's hard for me to emphasize with loneliness, as I've honestly never felt lonely a day in my life. It initially surprised me that people were bothered by working from home due to loneliness.
- charlie0 2y ago
  Does this resonate with you "I feel more alone around others than being by myself"? Loneliness != being alone
  - cm2012 2y ago
    Not really, I don't experience a feeling I would call loneliness in any situation.
anon291 2y ago
It's because the standard way we develop neighborhoods does not lend itself to people being able to leave their homes. My parents just bought a condo in a newer development in a rapidly growing metro, and while they can walk around their complex, there's no sidewalks to anywhere else, and even if there were, the city zoning laws means there's no corner cafe, bakery, or small-scale store like there really ought to be. It's so stupid and such an easy thing to fix: just require that each adjacent complex have a right of way and sidewalks and zone for cottage businesses every few blocks. Makes everything more pleasant, and people have something to do when they leave their house without having to get into the car. EDIT: This [1] is the kind of neighborhood i'm talking about. Growing rapidly, cheap housing -- great, but they're setting themselves up for real heartbreak because the complexes don't connect. To walk to the park that's not even a mile away requires walking on a huge, busy road. All they need to have to make it not feel dangerous is a dirt path and a required gate between complexes. That's it. [2] I'm honestly not sure why we think this kind of development is even normal. Roads really ought to connect. It also makes the traffic so much worse. I live two miles from downtown Portland and my street outside my house gets significantly less traffic than my parents. I fully expect to move my parents somewhere near us as they age. It's just not possible for them to leave the house when they get older without having to drive, whereas older people in my grid-based, sidewalk neighborhood can walk for miles and achieve their entire life. [1] https://www.google.com/maps/place/Clark+County+Fairgrounds/@45.7484249,-122.6642113,3200m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x5495b281e73740e5:0xb3a2f97437960dd5!8m2!3d45.7465972!4d-122.6645667!16s%2Fg%2F1td04rzp?entry=ttu https://www.google.com/maps/place/Clark+County+Fairgrounds/@... [2] Meanwhile, our park is technically farther away (about a mile) and we walk there almost everyday and know all the neighbors down the street. We just went to a party at one of the neighbor's homes and the only relation we have is that we wave at each other as their kids play in the yard and mine ride their bikes to the park. I want to leave the house half the time because I have friends outside. That's all you need.
- lr4444lr 2y ago
  How long are people really supposed to hang out at a corner cafe, bakery, or store? Don't these businesses want turnover? Libraries, rec centers, churches, parks, dance halls, and bars are where people are expected to spend time. Also, although I see little direct of screen time in the full report, large TVs, huge customizable option set, everything streaming on-demand, online shopping, immersive games, addictive internet behavior, etc., it does suggest these are at play, and could account for the hour and forty minutes lost.
_heimdall 2y ago
Its interesting that they focus only on the last 20 years. I'd really be more curious to see how that compares to a much longer timeline. How much time did people spend at home a hundred years ago? Or a thousand years ago?
janalsncm 2y ago
Many people mention the loss of third places as a contributing factor in these threads. Lower church attendance, the death of shopping malls, difficulties in accessing nice parks, etc. I am sympathetic to this idea. However, it is a very US-centric point of view as well. Many countries don’t have car-centric suburban sprawl that North America has. So I’m wondering if places seen as more walkable have the same trends of time spent at home, and if those trends are as strongly tied to quality of life problems.
- ethbr1 2y ago
  Obligatory mention for the well-titled Bowling Alone: The Collapse and Revival of American Community [0] (2000) [0] https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0684832836/ https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0684832836/
- karaterobot 2y ago
  Note that the article is about the U.S.
- chrisco255 2y ago
  The thing is the study covers 2003 to today. People talking about dramatic changes in suburban life but neighborhoods haven't changed much at all since 2003. What has changed is home entertainment has gotten more diverse. People stream movies more often than they go to the theater. People download the latest video games instead of going to game store. People stream instead of going to Blockbuster video. There is also a greater variety of food delivery options (Uber Eats, etc). You can have groceries delivered. People buy more of their purchases online like on Amazon and have it overnighted to their door. All these conveniences remove reasons to be out and about. In 2003 you still had to leave the house for most of these things.
- anal_reactor 2y ago
  I am European, lived in a few cities across a few countries. I have to say that it's very convenient to blame car-centric design for everything bad, but in reality, there is some deeper decay spreading through all developed societies. In my opinion there are two reasons for this. First, we form friendships of need: there are people to whom we're nice because we know we'll need their help one day. For a farmer it's better not to have an argument with the only guy in the village who owns a combine harvester, and especially not during the harvesting season. But nowadays literally the easiest way to live is to be a shut-in and just eat microwave food. We don't need friendships anymore, as in "having friends doesn't raise material standard of life". Second, we form friendships of pleasure: we talk to people that are essentially useless, but spending time with them just feels good for one reason or another. Recently we turned up individualism to the maximum which means that it's pretty much impossible to meet a person who has similar lifestyle, hobbies, and experiences, therefore could be a pleasant conversation partner. As a result, we just don't talk one to another because we don't enjoy it anymore. I really don't know what could be done here. I'm starting to think that this is simply a new form of environmental pressure that homo sapiens needs to adapt to. Don't fight the change, find ways to thrive in it.
shadowgovt 2y ago
Going outside involves spending money, so as long as the median income chart looks like this [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e2/US_GDP_per_capita_vs_median_household_income.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e2/US_GDP_p...], expect this trend to grow.
- charlie0 2y ago
  This is 100% true in the US because nearly everything is commercialized and built to create profit for someone. Third spaces resolves this, but there aren't many of those around if you exclude local parks.
  - shiroiushi 2y ago
    Even some of those require fees. For instance, the state of Virginia has many state parks, but to park at those parks requires paying a fee ($5 last I checked).
  - odessacubbage 2y ago
    even the parks have very restrictive hours in many cases.
dadjoker 2y ago
"The changes in daily life induced by the COVID-19 pandemic brought renewed attention to longstanding concerns about social isolation in the United States." Sigh, once again, it's wasn't COVID19 itself; it was the paranoid, destructive over-reaction that forced isolation that caused this.
- 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 2y ago
  Think of it like "At-most-once" vs "At-least-once" semantics. We were either going to overreact or underreact. You want to overreact to a thing like COVID-19.
dicroce 2y ago
Pet Peeve Time: Suburban neighborhoods these days typically only have a few entrances and exits... The effect of this is that unless you live in that neighborhood you won't enter it... This makes the streets quieter because you don't have any traffic passing through.. but it means that the major arteries have to have higher speeds... which I think isolates those neighborhoods.
- tinyhouse 2y ago
  Quite neighborhoods from traffic is great. How does this isolate neighborhoods? Are you talking about business isolation? I think the article is about people spending more time at home.
- hombre_fatal 2y ago
  You can see the Starbucks and grocery store from my cousin's house in some new suburbs they copy and paste around Texas, but it takes 30 minutes to walk to it because you have to snake back to the single entrance and then double back along the highway. Unless you want to hop a fence and walk through a ditch, which I did, to get there in 3 minutes. And there's certainly no path along the highway to ride your bike. So depressing especially once you've left the US and have seen how much better we could design our lives.
  - bgnn 2y ago
    That's depressing
tinyhouse 2y ago
So many people are working from home. Nice job Sherlock, adults spend more time at home since Covid... I agree it's an important issue though.
karaterobot 2y ago
Since removing the office from my life, I think I spend more time at home and more time in social spaces. Meaning, obviously I spend an extra eight hours a day at home, but I also go out more than I used to. When I worked in an office and commuted every day, I was so exhausted after work that I didn't want to do anything at night, and weekends were for recharging my battery for week to come. Now that I don't have to deal with that, I have a lot more motivation to go out and do fun stuff. The last five years have been the most active and happy time of my adult life. Probably not true for everyone, but true for me.
- yimmothathird 2y ago
  > Since removing the office from my life, I think I spend more time at home and more time in social spaces. Same here, I got out a lot more when I was WFH, even when I was hybrid, I would get out even on weekday afternoons/evenings and socialize a bit. But we were just dragged in office full time again, and it's once again rare for my to step outside after work. Now I'm more likely to be mental exhausted and spend my time napping, and consuming low energy entertaining before the next day.
hnpolicestate 2y ago
Endless comments, text and gibberish when the answer is just the smartphone.
francis_t_catte 2y ago
it's almost like western society, particularly in the united states, has spent the last 70 years intentionally stripping away community and easy access to a third place.
kpennell 2y ago
I really recommend the book Hanging Out: The Radical Power of Killing Time by Sheila Liming if you want to explore this issue more. Lots of interesting exploration about spending time in person.
Xiol32 2y ago
[flagged]
hasbot 2y ago
A factor I haven't seen mentioned here is weather. It's become so hot now that people are hiding indoors during the hottest parts of the day. After a while gotta consider if it's even worth going outside. Related: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41294489 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41294489
smm11 2y ago
I was just in a USA town called Jacksonville, NC, and noticed a very large area called The Commons, with schools, sports fields, parks, wooded areas, walking paths, ponds, courts, the whole thing. Really well-designed area. Very active with walkers, runners, cyclists, etc. But want a coffee? Check your phone, and see there's a coffee place maybe a half-mile away. Stop there after a run at The Commons, and it's a car-only place. (7-Brew)
perihelion_zero 2y ago
In one essay, Christopher Alexander calls suburb design schizophrenic, in reference to how suburb dwellers are forced more and more inward. It's certainly an appropriate description. I've lived in the suburbs for thirty something years and have never made a single friend there. Travel requires a car, and there's no place interesting you can get to without a car. The optimal strategy for life is therefore to pass the threshold of depression and insanity and become a computer-addicted robot who derives pleasure only from typing on the comments section of the internet. I've been thinking of ways to fix the problem but there's no bandage for removing the cars and redesigning the whole thing. I've thought of structures a clever person might be able to build to attract socialization, and I'm sure almost all of them are against zoning laws.

160 points by o_nate 2y ago

Is this not explained by remote work? Some portion of adults who used to spend ~50 hours at an office and commuting are spending it at home.

i_read_news 2y ago
That’s a factor, but there are other reasons. Saving money, more online entertainment, the general shift of things done in person are now online, and the dark patterns that keep us tied there.
- zem 2y ago
  also the increasing unavailability and/or inviability of third spaces where you can just hang out without having to spend a ton of money and deal with unpleasant environments
  - bpodgursky 2y ago
    I really don't think this is the reason. Third places are demand-driven, there are a lot of places where a $2 coffee buys you an afternoon. People aren't bothering.
    - pavel_lishin 2y ago
      > there are a lot of places where a $2 coffee buys you an afternoon. But there also isn't much reason to go there if nobody else does. A weird network-effect thing, right? Like, I didn't bother walking down to the local Chilean bakery that serves food because it's mostly empty most of the time, and there's only so much I can chat to the folks working there about as a stranger who lives down the street.
    - mlinhares 2y ago
      They're not, they're made, just look at all the open streets projects happening all over the world, and specially in Europe. You need people activelly building these third places for them to exist and for people to go there. The US is building most of its new homes in anti-social car controlled environments, where you can't walk anywhere, everything has to be done by driving. Kids can't just roam the neighborhoods anymore and when they do people start asking if they should call the cops. We are sick and it doesn't look like there is much thinking in how to fix it.
    - chubot 2y ago
      You used US dollars as your unit, but I don’t think there’s anywhere in the US where coffee cost $2 anymore Granted I live in more expensive areas, but still
  - mjyoon 2y ago
    I don't buy this - there are third spaces where you don't need to spend money and they've been here forever and are usually accessible. Churches, libraries, parks, certain community recreational facilities, gyms ,etc. It's not a lack of spaces, it's an issue of getting to those spaces.
    - arccy 2y ago
      - churches: not really for the non religious - libraries: not if you want to actually talk to people - parks: only if the weather cooperates - certain community recreational facilities: spend money? too activity oriented - gyms: same as above
      - mjyoon 2y ago
        The original poster said "spend a ton of money" (those places you spend money but not a "ton") and I've included churches as an example. This short list isn't comprehensive. Also, have you been to a library recently? There are now spaces where you can socialize and meet.
        shiroiushi 2y ago
        >The original poster said "spend a ton of money" (those places you spend money but not a "ton") Then why'd you put gyms in your list? You DO have to spend a ton of money to get a gym membership. And you can't cancel it because you have to sign a ridiculous contract and basically file a lawsuit to end the membership (not really, but it seems almost this bad).
        vel0city 2y ago
        > You DO have to spend a ton of money to get a gym membership. I've been off and on user of several different gyms over the years. I don't recall actually paying for a gym membership myself. It's usually been a gym at my apartment complex, or a gym at the office park where I work, or my employer covered a gym membership, or I got it through health insurance.
  - MattGaiser 2y ago
    Anecdotally, several managers of such spaces tell me they are dying from lack of use. I know my parents used them, but I never did. My friends used them a bit in university but stopped once they could afford something different. My local community centre's calendar has dried up, despite the space still being there. New neighborhoods sometimes don't even bother to build one now where I am, as there is no demand. Nobody demolished the churches or the libraries, but they have rapidly aging user bases. Rotary and other similar social clubs would love younger members, but younger people don't want them.
    - msds 2y ago
      As a consequence of the aging members, a lot of churches (particularly the less virulent mainstream protestant flavor) around here are merging congregations and getting demolished, to be replaced with more apartment buildings. Sometimes the parishioners will fight the good fight and get concessions made for affordable housing or other social goods.
- ricksunny 2y ago
  Which particular dark patterns would you be referring to? Sounds intriguing, and the article doesn't mention dark patterns.
  - i_read_news 2y ago
    That’s my own take, not actual direct causation. But for example, I’ve experienced and witnessed time taken by endless scrolling design (I.e. TikTok) which could have been spent socially. Since I’ve take time away from such apps with patterns, I feel generally more content, but results may vary.
- VancouverMan 2y ago
  A lot of formerly-enjoyable leisure activities outside the home have become a lot loss fun over the last few decades, too. I know a lot of people in the US, and especially Canada, who've stopped going to restaurants for example. They now cost too much, the food is often mediocre or even outright bad, the service is often terrible, parking can be an issue in some cities, and it's generally a miserable experience. Cooking at home, even if takes more effort, ends up being comparatively more enjoyable. That's also the case for movies, concerts, sporting events, exhibitions, and tourist venues. The tickets cost a lot relative to the enjoyment that's provided, and the pricing of food and drinks at such events can be astronomical. It has just become prohibitively expensive, especially for families, in addition to the other inconveniences (such as travel and parking) that can be associated with such events. Even something as simple as going to a beach or a lake has become an awful experience in Canada. A problem at Canadian beaches has been foreigners defecating in the sand, rather than using the proper washroom facilities. Even when that isn't happening, such places can be quite crowded and nowhere near as fun as they were in the past when they were quieter. I certainly can't blame people for not wanting to subject themselves to unpleasant experiences like those.
  - MattGaiser 2y ago
    Options have also expanded. The options are also not cooking at home vs going to a restaurant. There is now food delivery. It used to be that the only way to get ribs was to make them yourself or go to a restaurant and order them. But now a majority of my rib consumption is via Uber Eats. Movies used to be either in a theatre or a grainy home screen. The home screen is no longer grainy. Same with sports. You have to want the atmosphere to go to a game now. Beaches being crowded indicates use, so I wouldn't put it into the category of restaurant visits, movies, and sports, which are all declining categories overall.
    - freeone3000 2y ago
      We have a lot more people but the same amount of beach — even if people spend more total time at the beach, on average every person goes less often.
    - 2y ago
toomuchtodo 2y ago
Why go out if home is more comfortable?
nox101 2y ago
For me it's explained by (1) less shopping because I order online (2) more entertainment/distraction from online stuff (movies, youtube, tech news, anime, streamers, ....) (3) less office friends IMO partly because WFH. It's not that I'm spending time at home because I working, it's that I'm not going out with co-workers after work because we aren't starting the evening together like we used to. (3b) Same as above, I'm already at home because WFH so it's an effort to "go out". Where as when it was WFO I'd already be "out" and then stay out somewhere before coming home. Honestly I hate WFH. I know it's not coming back but "my" life is definitely worse because of WFH. I get that that's not true for many others.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- throwaway22032 2y ago
  WFH is fast food. It's more convenient and cheaper but worse for you.
  - phelddagrif 2y ago
    yes the extra 2 hours a day I get to spend with my wife and children is terrible for me. it's so obvious now.

mixtureoftakes 2y ago

[flagged]

samschooler 2y ago

Looking at the paper, page 564 [0] has the component graph. Looks like the key contributors are (in order of contribution): - Work-Related Activities (~35 minutes more at home) - Sleeping - Assumed at Home (~25 minutes more at home) - Leisure - Not On Computer (~22 minutes more at home) What I find interesting, is the key differences in total time spent. There seems to be generally more time spent sleeping actually (~25 more minutes), and that time comes from a decrease in socializing (-~15 minutes), and transportation (commuting, -~20 minutes). Overall, less commuting and more sleep seems good, but a decrease in socialization is not great, a full 1 3/4 hours a week decrease. [0]: https://sociologicalscience.com/download/vol_11/august/SocSci_v11_553to578_updated.pdf https://sociologicalscience.com/download/vol_11/august/SocSc...

dawnerd 2y ago
How is fewer hours of socializing bad? Maybe if you're the kind of person that things you have to always be in a social setting but there's lots of us that just want alone time. If I could get even an hour less a day around anyone else that would be massive for my mental health.
- DiggyJohnson 2y ago
  Sure that's sometimes the case. But on the whole I would bet that the average American is more physically and emotionally isolated from their peers outside their immediate family or housemates than any other society in history. The analogy that came to mind was to image advising firefighters to avoid drowning the cat when they're trying to put out a house fire.
- acabajoe 2y ago
  Americans at least are statistically lonelier now than they were before and it has a measurable negative effect on health. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/why-americans-are-lonelier-and-its-effects-on-our-health https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/why-americans-are-lonelier...
- therealdrag0 2y ago
  There have been studies that found even inane socialization like ordering from a barista in person boosts happiness. Not everything we think we want is what our animal brain and body needs.

hintymad 2y ago

Maybe a trajectory question: will the US have a lot of people like Japan's Hikikomori?

cpitman 2y ago
I heard the term NEET (not in employment education or training) used for the first time on western media last week. I usually associate the term with Japan and the Hikikomori issues.
- edu 2y ago
  In Spain and other LATAM countries we have the concept of "ni-ni" (ni estudia, ni trabaja = neither studies nor works). Although I'm pretty sure a lot of them don't spend all their time at home.
- creata 2y ago
  Fun(-ish) fact: Although it's strongly associated with and was popularized by Japan, the term "NEET" came from Britain.
bluefirebrand 2y ago
I think the main thing preventing this from happening a lot in NA is how difficult it would be to maintain without family paying for everything But there's absolutely people with big trust funds or inheritances living this way. I knew a bunch of people who basically lived like this during COVID because of relief payments and they only very reluctantly found jobs again after it became clear that COVID payments were done and UBI was not on the near horizon. There's a similar category of people in the USA and Canada as well that I don't have a term for. They're just as checked out really, bouncing between part time minimum wage jobs. They tend to live with like 5 roommates all doing the same thing they are. They work as few hours as possible to pay for rent and food. Any money left over is going to weed/booze/both and videogames I think it's the same person who would be a Hikikomori, just adapted to NA economic realities
- Dracophoenix 2y ago

mensetmanusman 2y ago

In Farming and Hunter days, we spent all the time at home.

ok_dad 2y ago
I’ve come to appreciate my home. I spend thousands of dollars a month on it, why wouldn’t I be there enjoying and maintaining it most of my time? I think the modern idea that you have to be out and about constantly is linked to our consumer culture and growth oriented economy. They want us to be out spending money we don’t have.
- 331c8c71 2y ago
  For me the first association with "out" is "outdoors".
  - ok_dad 2y ago
    My house is quite nice, I live right next to a big park that's basically a cool forest with tons of short trails that take only a few minutes to traverse. I can go for a walk for 15 minutes through there from 9-5 every day other than Christmas!
- dotnet00 2y ago
  Agreed. Every time we get a thread like this, the majority opinion seems to be to call it a bad thing and to blame technology. But, why shouldn't we be enjoying the place that is supposed to be our own? I can get a lot more work done when allowed to just be comfy working in my room without many disturbances. I can work on my hobbies and socialize with people who have the same hobbies, without any of us having to be able to come over.
- 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 2y ago
  I live alone, so I get bored of being alone. When my girlfriend is over, I still want to meet other people. Before my divorce, I wanted to meet other people and not just be around my spouse all day.
deleted 2y ago

steve1977 2y ago

If I understand correctly, the article looks at data from 2003 to 2022. I’m not sure if I would call that long-term. What about 1922 to 2022 for example? Or even longer. From what I understand from my parents and grandparents (I’m Gen X), they did quite a lot of stuff at home (i.e. meet friends, make music etc.) Going out was the exception, not the norm.

advisedwang 2y ago
Depends on what "going out" you mean. Restaurants - sure. But it seems plausible "a drink with colleagues after work" or "taking the kids to the library" or "going to a church activity" have all declined since the 1920s
- steve1977 2y ago
  My one grandfather was a carpenter with a workshop in his basement for example. I’m pretty sure “a drink with colleagues after work” was very rarely a thing for him.

SoftTalker 2y ago

> Preliminary analysis indicates that time at home is associated with lower levels of happiness and less meaning I wonder if this is something that needs a closer look. I enjoy spending time at home. I'd rather be at home than pretty much anywhere else. Even before the pandemic I felt this way. The pandemic itself was like a vacation.

eitally 2y ago
I think it depends a lot on both the individual and how the time is spent at home. For folks who have engaging hobbies and other activities that lend themselves to home-based practice, it's entirely different than those for whom time at home is basically being shut-in and reclusive with little mental & emotional stimulation.
- s1artibartfast 2y ago
  And also depends on if you have people over and a lot of human interaction in your home. Hosting a BBQ dinner party with family and friends it's obviously different than sitting alone browsing Netflix or reddit
- jaredcwhite 2y ago
  > time at home is basically being shut-in and reclusive with little mental & emotional stimulation Me! That's me! I can barely even get to a mere 24 hours at home without feeling stir-crazy, and more than that you might as well dump ants all over my skin. But I'm very aware of other people (including family members I know) who are perfectly fine with days spent going nowhere…perhaps rarely even leaving their room. It makes no sense to me, but clearly this issue is very personality-dependent.
- ethbr1 2y ago
  > engaging hobbies It's an important point. To use a nutrition metaphor, there are many new easily-available empty calories at home these days, that weren't previously available. The web. Online gaming. Social media. Streaming. Yet venturing outside into a social environment delivers a higher minimum level of nutritional value. You see other breathing humans, experience empathy and nature, and move your body. And critically... exercise being comfortable with being uncomfortable. (Aka, life) One of the quickest paths to crazy these days is becoming too comfortable in a stable, static, self-reinforcing life. You don't get any feedback that you're drifting pretty far off the median. (I mean, has anyone actually seen the Earth's curvature...?) Reality has a well-known bias towards reinforcing common sense and reminding you when you're wrong.

t-writescode 2y ago

We continue to lose our third spaces and a cohesive weekly ritual. Even places that flourished because they were third spaces, like Starbucks, are dropping their seating to lower numbers to “get rid of the riff raff” or whatever. The US is hilariously car-centric and when you’re not driving to go to work, there’s less of an urge to drive at any time; and, without walkability too, there’s even more loss in socializing. It’s all a net loss.

chubot 2y ago
Didn’t WFH mean that many people lost their second place? I remember reading about the third place many years ago, but that idea requires a second place!
- SubiculumCode 2y ago
  Home. Work. And your third place.
- katzinsky 2y ago
  Good riddance. As someone who still had third and even fourth places now I can focus on those.
- t-writescode 2y ago
  "Third Space" - I admit, I should have capitalized it, since it's a proper noun. Third Space is a term coined to mean "not work nor home" and it was constructed during a time when WFH wasn't much of a thing. I use it because the term has a meaning that I intend to convey, not necessarily because it is a person's 'third main space' anymore. It was the place people gathered. Church, the bar, local park, etc.
  - chubot 2y ago
    I'm familiar with what a "third place" is ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_place https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_place I'm just remarking that the role of the second place -- the office -- has also been diminished Obviously you don't literally need the "second place" to have the "third place" -- but my point was that in-person interaction has been reduced even further, compared to the 1990's Probably in 1990, few people would have predicted that the second place would also go away, at least for some affluent part of the population

OutOfHere 2y ago

If I was not going to look for a remote job before, I'm definitely going to look for one now.

SubiculumCode 2y ago

It would help if being outside your house didn't mean spending a bunch of money...but in so many towns, that's all there is to find: Stores and restaurants, or a small yucky space on a bench between unsavory individuals with a drug habit. I've seen the EU pubs, yes beer, but also coffee, some money is spent, but it's also open to prolonged conversations with neighbors without looks at you to leave right away.

cm2012 2y ago

It's hard for me to emphasize with loneliness, as I've honestly never felt lonely a day in my life. It initially surprised me that people were bothered by working from home due to loneliness.

charlie0 2y ago
Does this resonate with you "I feel more alone around others than being by myself"? Loneliness != being alone
- cm2012 2y ago
  Not really, I don't experience a feeling I would call loneliness in any situation.

anon291 2y ago

It's because the standard way we develop neighborhoods does not lend itself to people being able to leave their homes. My parents just bought a condo in a newer development in a rapidly growing metro, and while they can walk around their complex, there's no sidewalks to anywhere else, and even if there were, the city zoning laws means there's no corner cafe, bakery, or small-scale store like there really ought to be. It's so stupid and such an easy thing to fix: just require that each adjacent complex have a right of way and sidewalks and zone for cottage businesses every few blocks. Makes everything more pleasant, and people have something to do when they leave their house without having to get into the car. EDIT: This [1] is the kind of neighborhood i'm talking about. Growing rapidly, cheap housing -- great, but they're setting themselves up for real heartbreak because the complexes don't connect. To walk to the park that's not even a mile away requires walking on a huge, busy road. All they need to have to make it not feel dangerous is a dirt path and a required gate between complexes. That's it. [2] I'm honestly not sure why we think this kind of development is even normal. Roads really ought to connect. It also makes the traffic so much worse. I live two miles from downtown Portland and my street outside my house gets significantly less traffic than my parents. I fully expect to move my parents somewhere near us as they age. It's just not possible for them to leave the house when they get older without having to drive, whereas older people in my grid-based, sidewalk neighborhood can walk for miles and achieve their entire life. [1] https://www.google.com/maps/place/Clark+County+Fairgrounds/@45.7484249,-122.6642113,3200m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x5495b281e73740e5:0xb3a2f97437960dd5!8m2!3d45.7465972!4d-122.6645667!16s%2Fg%2F1td04rzp?entry=ttu https://www.google.com/maps/place/Clark+County+Fairgrounds/@... [2] Meanwhile, our park is technically farther away (about a mile) and we walk there almost everyday and know all the neighbors down the street. We just went to a party at one of the neighbor's homes and the only relation we have is that we wave at each other as their kids play in the yard and mine ride their bikes to the park. I want to leave the house half the time because I have friends outside. That's all you need.

lr4444lr 2y ago
How long are people really supposed to hang out at a corner cafe, bakery, or store? Don't these businesses want turnover? Libraries, rec centers, churches, parks, dance halls, and bars are where people are expected to spend time. Also, although I see little direct of screen time in the full report, large TVs, huge customizable option set, everything streaming on-demand, online shopping, immersive games, addictive internet behavior, etc., it does suggest these are at play, and could account for the hour and forty minutes lost.

_heimdall 2y ago

Its interesting that they focus only on the last 20 years. I'd really be more curious to see how that compares to a much longer timeline. How much time did people spend at home a hundred years ago? Or a thousand years ago?

janalsncm 2y ago

Many people mention the loss of third places as a contributing factor in these threads. Lower church attendance, the death of shopping malls, difficulties in accessing nice parks, etc. I am sympathetic to this idea. However, it is a very US-centric point of view as well. Many countries don’t have car-centric suburban sprawl that North America has. So I’m wondering if places seen as more walkable have the same trends of time spent at home, and if those trends are as strongly tied to quality of life problems.

ethbr1 2y ago
Obligatory mention for the well-titled Bowling Alone: The Collapse and Revival of American Community [0] (2000) [0] https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0684832836/ https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0684832836/
karaterobot 2y ago
Note that the article is about the U.S.
chrisco255 2y ago
The thing is the study covers 2003 to today. People talking about dramatic changes in suburban life but neighborhoods haven't changed much at all since 2003. What has changed is home entertainment has gotten more diverse. People stream movies more often than they go to the theater. People download the latest video games instead of going to game store. People stream instead of going to Blockbuster video. There is also a greater variety of food delivery options (Uber Eats, etc). You can have groceries delivered. People buy more of their purchases online like on Amazon and have it overnighted to their door. All these conveniences remove reasons to be out and about. In 2003 you still had to leave the house for most of these things.
anal_reactor 2y ago
I am European, lived in a few cities across a few countries. I have to say that it's very convenient to blame car-centric design for everything bad, but in reality, there is some deeper decay spreading through all developed societies. In my opinion there are two reasons for this. First, we form friendships of need: there are people to whom we're nice because we know we'll need their help one day. For a farmer it's better not to have an argument with the only guy in the village who owns a combine harvester, and especially not during the harvesting season. But nowadays literally the easiest way to live is to be a shut-in and just eat microwave food. We don't need friendships anymore, as in "having friends doesn't raise material standard of life". Second, we form friendships of pleasure: we talk to people that are essentially useless, but spending time with them just feels good for one reason or another. Recently we turned up individualism to the maximum which means that it's pretty much impossible to meet a person who has similar lifestyle, hobbies, and experiences, therefore could be a pleasant conversation partner. As a result, we just don't talk one to another because we don't enjoy it anymore. I really don't know what could be done here. I'm starting to think that this is simply a new form of environmental pressure that homo sapiens needs to adapt to. Don't fight the change, find ways to thrive in it.

shadowgovt 2y ago

Going outside involves spending money, so as long as the median income chart looks like this [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e2/US_GDP_per_capita_vs_median_household_income.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e2/US_GDP_p...], expect this trend to grow.

charlie0 2y ago
This is 100% true in the US because nearly everything is commercialized and built to create profit for someone. Third spaces resolves this, but there aren't many of those around if you exclude local parks.
- shiroiushi 2y ago
  Even some of those require fees. For instance, the state of Virginia has many state parks, but to park at those parks requires paying a fee ($5 last I checked).
- odessacubbage 2y ago
  even the parks have very restrictive hours in many cases.

dadjoker 2y ago

"The changes in daily life induced by the COVID-19 pandemic brought renewed attention to longstanding concerns about social isolation in the United States." Sigh, once again, it's wasn't COVID19 itself; it was the paranoid, destructive over-reaction that forced isolation that caused this.

01HNNWZ0MV43FF 2y ago
Think of it like "At-most-once" vs "At-least-once" semantics. We were either going to overreact or underreact. You want to overreact to a thing like COVID-19.

dicroce 2y ago

Pet Peeve Time: Suburban neighborhoods these days typically only have a few entrances and exits... The effect of this is that unless you live in that neighborhood you won't enter it... This makes the streets quieter because you don't have any traffic passing through.. but it means that the major arteries have to have higher speeds... which I think isolates those neighborhoods.

tinyhouse 2y ago
Quite neighborhoods from traffic is great. How does this isolate neighborhoods? Are you talking about business isolation? I think the article is about people spending more time at home.
hombre_fatal 2y ago
You can see the Starbucks and grocery store from my cousin's house in some new suburbs they copy and paste around Texas, but it takes 30 minutes to walk to it because you have to snake back to the single entrance and then double back along the highway. Unless you want to hop a fence and walk through a ditch, which I did, to get there in 3 minutes. And there's certainly no path along the highway to ride your bike. So depressing especially once you've left the US and have seen how much better we could design our lives.
- bgnn 2y ago
  That's depressing

tinyhouse 2y ago

So many people are working from home. Nice job Sherlock, adults spend more time at home since Covid... I agree it's an important issue though.

karaterobot 2y ago

Since removing the office from my life, I think I spend more time at home and more time in social spaces. Meaning, obviously I spend an extra eight hours a day at home, but I also go out more than I used to. When I worked in an office and commuted every day, I was so exhausted after work that I didn't want to do anything at night, and weekends were for recharging my battery for week to come. Now that I don't have to deal with that, I have a lot more motivation to go out and do fun stuff. The last five years have been the most active and happy time of my adult life. Probably not true for everyone, but true for me.

yimmothathird 2y ago
> Since removing the office from my life, I think I spend more time at home and more time in social spaces. Same here, I got out a lot more when I was WFH, even when I was hybrid, I would get out even on weekday afternoons/evenings and socialize a bit. But we were just dragged in office full time again, and it's once again rare for my to step outside after work. Now I'm more likely to be mental exhausted and spend my time napping, and consuming low energy entertaining before the next day.

hnpolicestate 2y ago

Endless comments, text and gibberish when the answer is just the smartphone.

francis_t_catte 2y ago

it's almost like western society, particularly in the united states, has spent the last 70 years intentionally stripping away community and easy access to a third place.

kpennell 2y ago

I really recommend the book Hanging Out: The Radical Power of Killing Time by Sheila Liming if you want to explore this issue more. Lots of interesting exploration about spending time in person.

Xiol32 2y ago

[flagged]

hasbot 2y ago

A factor I haven't seen mentioned here is weather. It's become so hot now that people are hiding indoors during the hottest parts of the day. After a while gotta consider if it's even worth going outside. Related: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41294489 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41294489

smm11 2y ago

I was just in a USA town called Jacksonville, NC, and noticed a very large area called The Commons, with schools, sports fields, parks, wooded areas, walking paths, ponds, courts, the whole thing. Really well-designed area. Very active with walkers, runners, cyclists, etc. But want a coffee? Check your phone, and see there's a coffee place maybe a half-mile away. Stop there after a run at The Commons, and it's a car-only place. (7-Brew)

perihelion_zero 2y ago

In one essay, Christopher Alexander calls suburb design schizophrenic, in reference to how suburb dwellers are forced more and more inward. It's certainly an appropriate description. I've lived in the suburbs for thirty something years and have never made a single friend there. Travel requires a car, and there's no place interesting you can get to without a car. The optimal strategy for life is therefore to pass the threshold of depression and insanity and become a computer-addicted robot who derives pleasure only from typing on the comments section of the internet. I've been thinking of ways to fix the problem but there's no bandage for removing the cars and redesigning the whole thing. I've thought of structures a clever person might be able to build to attract socialization, and I'm sure almost all of them are against zoning laws.