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Making your own hot sauce

232 points by hermitcrab 2y ago

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
hermitcrab 2y ago
Shop bought hot sauces are pretty 'meh' in my experience.
- willcipriano 2y ago
  I like Cholula.
  - upon_drumhead 2y ago
    Cholula is a fine hot sauce, but if you haven't expanded beyond it, there are sauces with a much deeper level of interesting flavors. Don't get me wrong, I'll douse a chicken wing in franks quite happily, but when it comes to my bacon and eggs in the morning, I prefer something smoked and fuller.
    - ngai_aku 2y ago
      What’s your recommended hot sauce for eggs?
      - upon_drumhead 2y ago
        I've been enjoying La Posta Hatch Smoked Chile the past month. It's nice and smoky with a decent kick. My last bottle was African Rhino Peri-Peri, which is a much brighter sauce then the smokey ones. https://lapostachileco.com/products/hatch-smoked-chile-hot-sauce https://lapostachileco.com/products/hatch-smoked-chile-hot-s... https://www.hotsauce.com/african-rhino-peri-peri-hot-sauce/ https://www.hotsauce.com/african-rhino-peri-peri-hot-sauce/
      - TwiztidK 2y ago
        Cantina Royale’s Tomasa hot sauce (more of a chili oil) is my favorite for eggs or potatoes. It has a nice smoky chili flavor and decent heat level. https://cantinaroyalhotsauce.com/collections/frontpage/products/tomasa-hot-sauce https://cantinaroyalhotsauce.com/collections/frontpage/produ... The runner up (and my favorite sauce for beans and rice) is The Brinery’s Aura Solanales. It’s like a fresher, more vibrant version of Franks/Crystal. https://www.thebrinery.com/our-products https://www.thebrinery.com/our-products
      - nemo44x 2y ago
        Chili Crunch is nice on eggs.
    - foobarian 2y ago
      I wish I could find how to make Frank's. The recipes on the Internet use the actual Frank's hot sauce as an ingredient.
      - upon_drumhead 2y ago
        I tried a copy-cat recipe one and it was underwealming. Later, I came across https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHlk4GviDXk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHlk4GviDXk which talks about their process. I think a key difference between the copy-cat recipes and real Franks is purely the fermentation. It's likely worth giving it a try with the fermentation advice going on here.
  - hermitcrab 2y ago
    Is that the stuff you get in lots of US restaurants? If so, think it is quite bland. Subjective obviously.
    - michaeldh 2y ago
      Most of the time that's Tabasco sauce.
      - shaklee3 2y ago
        Tabasco, tapatio, and Cholula are very common in Mexican restaurants in CA
    - nemo44x 2y ago
      I think you're thinking of Tabasco. Which is supposed to be bland as it doesn't exist to impart new flavors so much as rather make the thing you're eating hot and slightly acidic. Serves a purpose. Hot sauce is a spectrum of intensity and flavors and Tabasco is definitely on the subtle side of the flavor spectrum.
      - hermitcrab 2y ago
        It might have been Cholula brand tabasco. I don't remember.
  - __mharrison__ 2y ago
    I prefer Valentina to Cholula. Also cheaper.
  - krs_ 2y ago
    Cholula is okay but of the big brands I think El Yucateco is my favorite.
    - willcipriano 2y ago
      I like that as well, don't have it in my store.
- namdnay 2y ago
  I think it depends on the store. In Montreal there’s a “micro-saucery”, I love the concept (and their sauces are great)
- oldpersonintx 2y ago
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- samstave 2y ago
  I love all hot sauces, and my GF brings me random hot sauces often. Most recently gave me a bottle of https://i.imgur.com/f7o1FT9.png https://i.imgur.com/f7o1FT9.png TRUFF -- and my goodness, its my favorite one yet. Its amazing - and it pairs well with Wasabe Mayo... I rally need to make my own, but I mix raosted paprika into a lot of cooking I do with hotsauces...
dmoy 2y ago
Didn't see it mentioned in the article or picture, but you often get better results if you weigh down the stuff you're fermenting so it's always underneath the brine. Glass weights, literal rocks, or just an excess of brine, either way. If you do that, then the "fuzzies" the article mentioned basically never make an appearance.
- throwup238 2y ago
  > Glass weights, literal rocks, or just an excess of brine, either way. Alternatively, ziplock bag filled with water and a little air for buoyancy.
  - MathMonkeyMan 2y ago
    Or the top of an onion, pushed down. Saw that on youtube and it's the idea I like best.
  - bsilvereagle 2y ago
    > ziplock bag filled with water You’ll often see this done with brine instead of water so if the bag develops a leak the salt concentration of the ferment stays the same.
- hermitcrab 2y ago
  Author here. Fair comment. I did think about mentioning that. But I didn't want to get too much into the weeds. Better to watch some videos for all the details.
- zikduruqe 2y ago
  Well they can. It's called Kahm Yeast, https://melissaknorris.com/kahm-yeast/ https://melissaknorris.com/kahm-yeast/ I typically just skim it off. And you can't get botulism from fermenting. That is only in canning foods, since all the microbes are competing with each other. Good old C. botulinum can't hang.
doctorhandshake 2y ago
Can confirm most of this but I disagree with the advice to stop fermentation by any means. To the contrary I like to keep my lacto hot sauces fermenting in the fridge for a year before using them - much deeper, more complex flavor.
- Duanemclemore 2y ago
  Same. I have a fermented ghost pepper sauce that's been working in the fridge for almost a decade. I pretty much only use it to start other sauces these days but when I taste it, it's freaking fantastic.
- dunham 2y ago
  I also disagree with their lack of oxford comma. :) I did lacto once because I had a bunch of habanero from the farmers market and wanted something that could sit around for a while. But I usually don't plan ahead, so typically it's habanero and a garlic clove under the broiler and then blended with some lime juice - a bottle at a time, as needed. A recipe I got from Rick Bayless. The grocery store has been out for a few weeks, so I may need a different strategy. And I should branch out more.
  - waldothedog 2y ago
    Rick Bayless is my hero
- hermitcrab 2y ago
  I took a batch and A/B tested it. Simmering one half, but not the other. I preferred the simmered batch. Not much of a sample size though...
  - Dylan16807 2y ago
    Did you test it right away, or after some amount of time? If it improves the flavor right away, you can try option C of simmering not quite the entire batch, so that fermentation resumes after you recombine.
throwup238 2y ago
You don’t have to make a brine. I ferment my chilis in a vacuum sealed bag like those used for sous vide. Just pulse the ingredients a few times in a food processor and add 2% salt by weight. Since they don’t have much sugar I’ve never had to burp the bags. Makes it really easy to just have tons of bags fermenting without taking up lots of space or reusable containers. The Noma Guide to Fermentation has a lot more info.
- SmellTheGlove 2y ago
  Do you vacuum the bag and get all of the air out, or do you just kind of flatten it with your hand and seal it with space at the top for expansion? I assume it puffs up a lot. Do you have to vent and reseal it or can those bags handle it, assuming name brand food saver bags or something else that’s decent quality?
  - throwup238 2y ago
    I vacuum the bag with a Foodsaver but the displacement method with a ziplock bag probably works too. I’ve only ever had to vent ferments with lots of fruit sugars like blueberry habanero. I just cut the bag, force some of the air out, then fold it over and use a binder clip. I don’t reseal them because the salt pulls out their liquid and I don’t have a chamber vacuum sealer.
    - dunham 2y ago
      Good to know it can be done with a food saver. I have the book on my shelf, but never got around to reading it. I've used a ziplock of water as a fermentation weight. I didn't know I could use a chamber sealer, and I have one (the "cheap" model VP112S - at $600 and only 57 lbs. - but I bought it 7 years ago and it's still going). I think I need to try this with some chilis.
    - SmellTheGlove 2y ago
      Thanks! I’m going to give this a try. I have a food saver I just wasn’t sure if I should leave space in the bag or not. Sounds like not and just vent the bag if it inflates too much.
MarkMarine 2y ago
I make my own hot sauce, but they were all kind of blah until I started growing my own chilis. I grow the bird’s eye chilis (piri piri) that is an important part of a number of Portuguese dishes that I like, including wonderful piri piri oil that I drizzle on many things. I always have extra chilis at the end of the year so I make sauce. There is a Portuguese sauce made from fermented red (sweet, large) peppers that I’ve never been able to get right though. Finding a recipe online is tough because this is a family recipe that gets passed down, many families have their own take on it, and I’m in California and don’t have any Portuguese relatives. If anyone makes massa de pimentão and has a recipe please share
- silisili 2y ago
  If you haven't already tried them, take a look at siling labuyo. They are a little smaller and hotter, and IMO better tasting. I've had tons of luck growing them in the US, even indoors over a winter once(light lamp). I like them so much I picked my username after them :)
  - MarkMarine 2y ago
    Thanks for the recommendation, where did you get seeds for them?
    - silisili 2y ago
      https://www.ebay.com/itm/333733398766 https://www.ebay.com/itm/333733398766 I bought my last batch from that link and they tasted perfect. I used to just get them from local Filipino stores/communities, if you have any. A lot of people grew them when I was in Florida. My last house was in the desert, and wasn't able to find any locally so bought those off ebay.
- vram22 2y ago
  >started growing my own chilis I thought / have observed that the spelling "chili" (single letter l) was used for the US / Mexican dish called "chili con carne", and the spelling "chilly/chillies" was used for the hot pepper that came from the Americas and spread to much of the world. Edit: Wikipedia says both spellings are used for the hot pepper: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chili_pepper https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chili_pepper Edit 2: See the Spelling and usage section. It does not mention the y ending, but I have seen it in India.
shepherdjerred 2y ago
Anything home preserved makes me anxious. Canning, bottling, etc. It just sounds way too easy to poison yourself. That being said, this does sound really fun.
- namdnay 2y ago
  Anything that’s salty or acidic or sweet or fermented enough isn’t dangerous. So no risk for jams, hot sauces, beers, pickles etc. Canning fruit or vegetables requires more care
  - candiddevmike 2y ago
    There's a lot of steps you're missing. Just by virtue of having those qualities does not mean it's safe, there is probably a lot of prep, cleaning, and boiling involved.
    - namdnay 2y ago
      Even without those steps the worst you’ll get is fur on the top. As long as you’re putting the correct weight of salt There’s no danger
- candiddevmike 2y ago
  Agreed... I can never find a hot sauce ferment recipe that has weights and measurements like sauerkraut or kimchi. Everything is too eyeball-ey and makes me super paranoid about not getting the right salt and ph. Botulism scares the shit out of me.
  - ssl-3 2y ago
    There's only a few things to do with pepper ferments. It's not at all like baking a cake is. And it's far easier to accomplish safely than canning is. Only one ingredient must be measured before it is added: Salt. There is just not anything here that could be improved by adding specificity: 1. Use pure-ish water, if any water is used at all. Chlorine is bad. Buffering from dissolved minerals is also bad. (Distilled water is cheap; use that.) 2. Weigh water, if any, along with the peppers. 3. Add 2% non-iodized table salt, by weight. (Kosher salt works here, and has other uses.) 4. Mix it up in a suitable vessel (I prefer vacuum bags because the results are both flawless and easy), and put in a dark-ish place that is not cold. 5. Wait. That's really all there is.
ANarrativeApe 2y ago
I love that this has climbed to a medal position on the hacker news podium!
- hermitcrab 2y ago
  It dropped from 9th position to 85th position in about 30 minutes. So it appears that the mods or the HN algorithm weren't so happy about this.
  - hermitcrab 2y ago
    Now back to position 17.
    - imp0cat 2y ago
      It's still fermenting. ;)
- shever73 2y ago
  ...without even a recipe! I bookmarked it to read later, and was kind of disappointed that it was just a "I've learned how to make hot sauce" post.
  - hermitcrab 2y ago
    I didn't feel expert enough to be telling people what to do in detail. I just wanted people to understand that it was pretty straighforward to do and the results could be excellent. For more details watch a Youtube video by someone who knows a lot more about it (e.g. the Chillichump channel linked in the article).
smallerfish 2y ago
I get my chili ferments going with live kombucha. I used to use my own, but no longer maintain a running kombucha batch, so I just buy some ultra hippy kombucha whenever I'm ready to start a new chili ferment. Basic recipe: blend together chilis, kombucha, and some filler (e.g. carrots, or fruit).
- twic 2y ago
  I did the same. From my notes: "frozen chillies (30 g), machine-chopped, boiled up with spring water (35 ml) and Himalayan salt (2.5 g), left to cool, mixed with ginger live kombucha (35 ml), left for a week (i was in a rush). Future versions could use twice as much chilli. Tolerably hot, with a heat that plateaus and then lasts." The chillies would have been Numex Bailey which i grew myself. I pick the fruits when they're ripe and freeze them until i have enough for a batch of sauce, hence using frozen chillies. Should work fine with fresh too.
fitsumbelay 2y ago
the fermentation step is a new one to me. I've always been vinegar, chillies, garlic/onions in the blender and call it a day but the result was always a bit south of satisfactory. excellent post
meroes 2y ago
I usually go for a quick and dirty start-to-finish in a day recipe when I’m craving hot sauce. I don’t have much patience or long term storage or want to gamble with botulism, so I don’t ferment. A very very rough recipe is: - 4 lbs of dried chiles de arbol (no seeds or stems) - 1.5 lbs each of Serranos and Jalapeños - 1 lb of habaneros - 4 large carrots - half cup of garlic - about 2 gallons of white vinegar - a little salt and maybe a cup of water I like the idea of adding some mangoes from the link so maybe add 2-3? Rough chop everything and take out stems and the majority of seeds. Start heating the arbols in a very large boil pot outside (on a grill or its own propane burner). Then after 15 mins add the other peppers and salt. 15 mins later add the veggies, 5 mins later pour the vinegar and water if needed in so that it just covers the chiles. You might not use all the vinegar. Heat to a low boil for 2 hours. Let it cool for 20 mins, blend it in batches till smooth. Then transfer the blended batches back to the pot and reboil for 10 mins. Then pot directly into mason jars. Stir occasionally throughout so nothing burns, but some color is good at the beginning. It feels pretty safe. It’s very very hot but that’s how I like it and makes it last longer. It’s not as smooth as the off the shelf hot sauces, but not quite as thick as the chile hot sauce in Asian restaurants. Oh and don’t touch your eyes or sensitive areas. Maybe it’s just me but chiles have decreased in hotness in the past decade. Like a habanero or jalapeño is not as hot as they used to be. For jalapeños, there used to be like 1/5 that would floor you, so their average hotness was quite higher. Now it seems like all jalapeños I buy are the same, which reduces the average heat so I have to add more habaneros.
- cyb_ 2y ago
  The article below claims that milder store-bought peppers are the result of growers using different varieties, which is driven by larger (factory) consumers of the peppers. https://www.dmagazine.com/food-drink/2023/05/why-jalapeno-peppers-less-spicy-blame-aggies/ https://www.dmagazine.com/food-drink/2023/05/why-jalapeno-pe...
  - meroes 2y ago
    Ah that makes sense. Seems to be in large part because there are varieties that are lower heat but higher flavor, and ceteris paribus, getting away with less jalapeno for same or greater flavor saves money. I wonder if anyone's weighed the amount of actual jalapeno in a jar of tostito's queso. Probably like a quarter gram.
kylehotchkiss 2y ago
Your labels are my favorite! Love the rocket ship
r0s 2y ago
Hot take about fermentation in these recipes. > Lacto-ferment chillis with your choice of veg and/or fruit in a brine solution for a couple of weeks at room temperature. Room temperature is no kind of standard. Optimal fermentation is up to about 75f max. I live in the south and most of the year room temp for me is at least 76. I've ruined several batches of lacto-fermented experiments before making that connection. Don't get me started on vague salt measurements like "seawater" taste.
hansvm 2y ago
A few notes: 1. Botulism is nearly a non-issue in lacto fermentation. As the article mentions, salt and acid inhibit its growth. For an extra layer of protection, you can add a bit of vinegar at the start of the process to further encourage the growth of safe microorganisms. Botulism only starts becoming an issue when you have low-salt, low-acid preparations, or when you start the process like you would in traditional canning (boiling the fermentation mixture ahead of time -- getting rid of all competition for the botulism). If you cook the peppers you should make sure to pitch in a significant quantity of yeast and/or lactic acid producing bacteria. 1a. Botulism is a lot higher risk if you stabilize the mixture (the "simmering it in a pan to thicken" step) before storing it. That kills any safe microorganisms and again opens up the door for an infection from something dangerous (though, as the article mentions, it's less risky because of the accumulated salt and acid in the final product). 2. Mold requires a stable, aerobic environment to grow. Completely submerging the peppers suffices, as does using some form of air-lock, but you can also almost always get away with just stirring it twice each day. 3. Sugar can make the fermentation work better. The suggestion of fruit to achieve that is a great idea. As a side-note, mango is particularly delicious fermented on its own (halves or other large chunks, fermented just till there's a lot of CO2 bubbles, making them fruit chunks sparkly, no longer or it gets mushy). > kills off the fermentation. 4. That has pros and cons. Fermented foods "keep" better while still fermenting (in terms of food safety), but the texture and flavor can degrade (it varies, look at how fantastic kimchi is as an example of longer fermentations being beneficial). Once hybrid strategy if you still want the improved texture from cooking is to reserve some of the pre-cooked sauce and re-introduce after cooking, re-innoculating it with yeast and bacteria. It'll tend to keep a lot longer if you do so. The flavor changes can be good or bad. It'll build up pressure over time though, so don't seal it air-tight.
- tptacek 2y ago
  Just for what it's worth, for all the talk about botulism in all these stories, the US had just nineteen cases of confirmed food-borne botulism in 2019 (the last year I can see data for); about half were commercial, and 4 were an outbreak linked to "home-prepared fermented beluga flipper". I don't think fermented hot sauce is taking anybody out. At least, not that way. (I'm fascinated by this because it's an article of faith that you can't store garlic confit or garlic oil in the fridge, but it's very difficult to find a case of anyone contracting botulism from cooked garlic, and when I get taken out by a case of garlic botulism, you all have my permission to write your dunks directly onto my gravestone).
linsomniac 2y ago
Don't underestimate making a fresh rather than fermented sauce. Years ago at work I made a green chili sauce, basically just blended some peppers, vinegar, salt, and spices. I think it was 4-6 anaheims, a couple jalapinos, and garlic. Pretty simple and quite delicious. I'll also second the article's recommendation for Ring of Fire, the Habanero variety (they have a lot of varieties).
- cnity 2y ago
  I did this with mango and scotch bonnet peppers (with garlic and carrot, vinegar and seasoning) and it is very delicious.
- Dunati 2y ago
  If you blend this with some neutral vegetable oil, the sauce forms a creamy looking emulsion and is quite tasty.
- Sohcahtoa82 2y ago
  I've been kind of wanting to try to make a super-smokey pepper sauce. Thinking of getting poblanos, hatch, and/or jalapeno, smoking them on the pellet grill for 24+ hours using mesquite, then blending with vinegar, salt, and some spices.
SimianLogic 2y ago
My favorite DIY hot sauce is manzanos and dragonfruit. The little black seeds make it look awesome and manzanos are a nice slow burn.
jerrysievert 2y ago
I lacto-ferment hot sauce on a regular basis (and give most of it away). my go-to brine is by weight, which eliminates a bunch of issues: * 400g water * 26g salt this makes for a great brine without trying to estimate or "taste" it to see if it's ok. in addition, I sometimes use adjuncts: * garlic - this adds a lot of flavor to the sauce, but could add yeast if you're not careful * carrots - adds some vegetable flavor and a little bit of sweetness without adding sugar directly I also don't pasteurize it (heat it up after it's done, or add vinegar), since I prefer the natural change that the sauce has over time. I also don't "thicken" it, you can get a better sauce by using the correct amount of brine when you go to blend it at the end, if all else fails, any leftover brine can be used for other things (I have some great pickles that were started with a partial batch of brine). it's a fun hobby, but make sure that you can find a home for the extras if you aren't an avid hot sauce eater! editing to add some tips: 1. if you're dealing with hot peppers, use gloves - they help a lot! 2. the seeds and the pith add a lot of heat - you can remove them and get yourself delicious flavor without the pain.
- cshimmin 2y ago
  Have you ever made “hot” sauce with bell peppers? My wife has literally zero tolerance for spicy food, wondering if I could make some kind of capsaicin-free sauce that gives some of the flavor of eg sriracha or tapatio, etc.
  - ibejoeb 2y ago
    Yes, generally. It won't have the flavor of either of those, but you will be able to adjust that with with flavors that don't impart heat. For something like tapatio, probably garlic, cumin, and a more neutral vinegar like a greek white wine vinegar. Maybe even bay leaf. Stick with green bell peppers, because riper ones are going to be much fruitier. Also, check out Habanada peppers.
  - copperx 2y ago
    The better bet would be to use green tomatillos instead of peppers as the main flavor.
  - 2y ago
dzhiurgis 2y ago
Unsure if this is going to hit right spot, but if you can't be bothered with fermentation and prefer storing your chilli in freezer - try making Thai chilli dipping sauce - Nam Jim Jaew. Takes few minutes and stores for few weeks in fridge. Works well on avocado toast.
flobosg 2y ago
Related: “How to Make Fermented Hot Sauce” – https://www.seriouseats.com/fermented-hot-sauce-how-to https://www.seriouseats.com/fermented-hot-sauce-how-to (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32486504 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32486504)
VoodooJuJu 2y ago
>So make sure the fermentation vessel is airtight and everything is clean Making it airtight would actually increase the risk of botulism, because the bacteria is anaerobic. Also, the botulism bacteria wouldn't survive such an acidic and salty fermentation environment anyway. Have a better chance of getting both struck by lightning and winning the lottery multiple times in a row than dying from botulism, even in an environment that's ideal for it. I wonder why botulism even gets a mention in modern discussions of traditional fermenting and food preservation. It's unbelievably rare and really only occurs in modern preservation methods, like canning, and commercially-prepared food. I just don't understand why it gets a mention at all. When I see it pop up in tutorials about traditional curing and fermenting, it's an immediate red flag about the quality of the tutorial. It's one of those common misinformation things that won't die because of all the momentum behind it. And the misinformation ought to stop, because it's giving us cancer, because industry and home-curers think they need to load nitrites into their meat to make it safe, which is terrible for you.
- bsder 2y ago
  > I wonder why botulism even gets a mention in modern discussions of traditional fermenting and food preservation. Because too many "natural health" people don't understand actual health risks. Botulism pops up because "<flavor> infused oils" became a thing and people started dumping uncooked garlic into them. And then a bunch of people got sick with botulism because a low salt, neutral pH, anerobic (the oil blocks oxygen) environment is practically tailor-made for incubating botulism. "Classic" recipes for preservation generally make sure to have salt, nitrates, low pH and little oil/fat (and generally a combination of them). Guess why? Most pathogens don't like salts (curing) or acid (most canning). Some of the worst (like botulism) don't like oxygen and oil/fat can block oxygen. You can even see the ignorance in the comments here. Some people were talking about putting non-acidic things in a vacuum seal without a pressure boil (240-250F). No. Bad. Very Bad. Take a look at things playing out in "raw milk" right now. "Pasteurization" was hailed as a breakthrough for a reason--it is. I hate the "industrialization" of our food chain as much as anybody (I simply cannot find a tomato that doesn't suck). However, you solve that by breaking up the cartels--not by wiping out food safety. As for nitrates, a lot of the problem is the fact that the "industrial" process pumps the meat with a LOT more nitrates than people would use at home. When properly cured, most of the nitrates in meat have chemically reacted and there is very little residual. Industrial processes worry more about running out and so pump the meat so full of them that there is a ton of nitrate still left in the meat even after curing. It is this unreacted nitrate residue that seems to "cause problems".
janandonly 2y ago
It so happens that a few months back a friend of mine started to make his own hot sauces. Shameless plug for his Dutch website here: https://lavasaus.nl/ https://lavasaus.nl/
gwd 2y ago
> If you are careless, you could end up with botulism, one of the deadliest toxin known to man! So make sure the fermentation vessel is airtight and everything is clean. I'm not an expert, but from what I've heard about botulism, that's recklessly irresponsible advice. (Do your own research before taking the advice below.) The whole point is that: 1. Botulism spores are everywhere. 2. They only reproduce when the conditions are right. Guess what those conditions are? a) Not too acidic b) NO OXYGEN. 3. Soap doesn't kill them. Boiling at at STP doesn't kill them. The only way to kill them is to boil them at a high enough pressure that the temperature. Therefore, "make sure everything is clean" is useless advice; and "make sure everything is airtight" just helps you make sure the conditions are right to be poisoned. Two ways to counter botulism. Either: 1. Boil things at the right pressure for long enough (with a pressure gauge to make sure it's actually at the specified pressure) to kill the spores 2. Make sure it's acidic enough to keep the spores asleep. EDIT: My point wasn't "Don't bottle things like hot sauce at home". I bottle things at home myself. And I bet his recipe is perfectly safe -- not because he keeps things airtight and clean, but because it's acidic. If he had said, "Watch out for botulism but this is safe because it's acidic", then people using his recipe will make sure to keep things acidic as well, and if they dilute the acidity, they'll be warned to look up the pH required to be safe. But instead he said, "Watch out for botulism, make sure everything is airtight and clean"; which means people might take his recipe and reduce the acidity, believing themselves still to be safe because they're keeping things airtight and clean. That is what's reckless about the advice. Also, another condition botulism requires is to be above 5C. So what I actually do myself is bottle things that are acidic, and then keep them in the fridge. I don't typically make more than a few jars a year, so that's sufficient for me; if I was going to can things properly, I'd get pH testers and/or a pressure cooker with a gauge.
- nope-prime 2y ago
  [flagged]
- ipsento606 2y ago
  Botulism is a risk in the home canning of low-acidity foods. It is virtually unheard of in the lacto-fermentation of foods not containing animal products. I'm not aware of a single confirmed case in the US, ever. If anyone is concerned about it, the simplest thing to do is buy an inexpensive pH tester and confirm the brine's pH is below 4.6
woile 2y ago
I've also started preparing my own fermented hot sauce, you can find it here: https://www.reciperium.com/woile/fermented-chili-sauce https://www.reciperium.com/woile/fermented-chili-sauce It's delicious, I just recently started experimenting with fermentation
twic 2y ago
I made fermented hot sauce once, and i don't think it was sufficiently different to other kinds to be worth doing again. But then, i have only done it once! I think my favourite hot sauces have started by drying the chillies, then toasting them in a pan. This adds a lovely smoky, rich flavour. In terms of other additives, i recently made a rather long winded rum and coke themed hot sauce, the main lesson from which is that orange peel goes amazingly with chilli. I am now thinking about a chocolate orange hot sauce, built around toasted chillies, orange peel, and cocoa powder perhaps. Can i make an orange peel oleo saccharum using citric acid, and use that instead of vinegar? Should i make it oil-based? Use crème de cacao?! Much to ponder. If you're going to grow your own chillies, i can highly recommend NuMex Bailey: https://cpi.nmsu.edu/_assets/documents/Bailey.full_.pdf https://cpi.nmsu.edu/_assets/documents/Bailey.full_.pdf It's a pequin pepper, so very small, but hot and with good flavour. This particular strain grows like the clappers, forming a compact, dense bush, which is covered in flowers and then fruit, which as the paper says, are very easy to pick when ripe. The productivity in terms of mass of fruit per unit of pot area is far better than anything else i've grown. It seems to be impossible to kill, too.
- shadytrees 2y ago
  > I made fermented hot sauce once, and i don't think it was sufficiently different to other kinds to be worth doing again. But then, i have only done it once! +1. I spent hours lovingly sanitizing and prepping and waiting for habaneros to ferment; in the end, they added a bit of funky tang, but I didn't feel like it was worth the time. I realized that vinegar-based hot sauce recipes are quicker to iterate on and perfect and taste closer to what I prefer. However, it's all subjective! Watching something ferment in a container is inherently fun, in the way a terrarium with a small creature in it can be. YMMV.
- fullspectrumdev 2y ago
  This has given me some wonderful ideas for my next attempts at hot sauce. I wonder if I could get a nice flavour profile from using some smoked/toasted (dried) peppers and some untreated ones in a fermentation? Would there be a nice flavour combination of the Smokey and Tangy aspects that I enjoy? My last efforts at growing my own chilli’s were going extremely well until I went away for a month, forgot to leave instructions for their care, and they died off beyond recovery.
abrugsch 2y ago
Congrats on the hot sauce results! I made my own last summer too (first time making a sauce, I previously made Chilli Jams from my home grown peppers) and last summer I had a very productive Wraith chilli plant which produce pods far too hot to do much else with so I found a recipe I wanted to try. I didn't lacto-ferment them but I did make one similar to your mango one (I used a fresh pineapple and fresh mango plus some honey and IIRC cumin) and like yourself, found it one of the most amazing sauces I've ever had. It was sweet and tangy, super flavourful and HOT AS HELL! I put it on everything and because of the "chilli high" I was getting from it decided to nickname it Pineapple Express. I was hoping to make another batch this season but the plant, despite over-wintering well, has barely grown and is only just now producing flowers which I'm pretty sure will produce very small pods if they are even successful...
waffletower 2y ago
I have been making my own hot sauce for almost a decade and have chosen to skip fermentation, taqueria-style. I tend to make a blender-full at a time, use dried chiles, use a small amount of salt and vinegar and refrigerate what I make in a few dishwasher cleaned mason jars. We use it quickly enough that I have never noticed any unwanted mold or growth. I have commonly noticed such growth from opened store-bought salsa which is undoubtedly less acidic (and spicy).
sowbug 2y ago
Last year I tried making a Sriracha recipe, but had to use green jalapeños because I couldn't find red ones. I hear that a red jalapeño is simply a green one that was allowed to ripen, so I can see why farmers might not have the time to produce red ones. I'm now patiently growing some jalapeños in my backyard. Meanwhile, anyone know a source for red jalapeños?
- HeyLaughingBoy 2y ago
  Depending on your zone, they may not live long enough to turn red. I'm in MN and when growing serranos, I had to bring them inside before I got any red ones. Happily, though, they continued to fruit indoors throughout the winter.
  - sowbug 2y ago
    I hadn't thought of that. Fortunately, they're growing in a fabric pot, so I can take them in when the weather turns.
seanwilson 2y ago
For botulism, how risky is making jam? It's not that acidic, not salty, the fruit isn't heated to a high temperature, and the jam is put in a sealed container after so there's risks? I've seen white/green mold in homemade blueberry jam before but never figured out what went wrong there.
- ipsento606 2y ago
  most jam is very acidic so botulism is not a concern
MisterBastahrd 2y ago
If you're worried about sanitizing your gear to prevent infections in your product, do yourself a favor and buy some starsan from a homebrew shop. It's a food-safe sanitizer you use on the gear (bottles, spoons, etc) to ensure that it's safe.

232 points by hermitcrab 2y ago

deleted 2y ago

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hermitcrab 2y ago

Shop bought hot sauces are pretty 'meh' in my experience.

willcipriano 2y ago
I like Cholula.
- upon_drumhead 2y ago
  Cholula is a fine hot sauce, but if you haven't expanded beyond it, there are sauces with a much deeper level of interesting flavors. Don't get me wrong, I'll douse a chicken wing in franks quite happily, but when it comes to my bacon and eggs in the morning, I prefer something smoked and fuller.
  - ngai_aku 2y ago
    What’s your recommended hot sauce for eggs?
    - upon_drumhead 2y ago
      I've been enjoying La Posta Hatch Smoked Chile the past month. It's nice and smoky with a decent kick. My last bottle was African Rhino Peri-Peri, which is a much brighter sauce then the smokey ones. https://lapostachileco.com/products/hatch-smoked-chile-hot-sauce https://lapostachileco.com/products/hatch-smoked-chile-hot-s... https://www.hotsauce.com/african-rhino-peri-peri-hot-sauce/ https://www.hotsauce.com/african-rhino-peri-peri-hot-sauce/
    - TwiztidK 2y ago
      Cantina Royale’s Tomasa hot sauce (more of a chili oil) is my favorite for eggs or potatoes. It has a nice smoky chili flavor and decent heat level. https://cantinaroyalhotsauce.com/collections/frontpage/products/tomasa-hot-sauce https://cantinaroyalhotsauce.com/collections/frontpage/produ... The runner up (and my favorite sauce for beans and rice) is The Brinery’s Aura Solanales. It’s like a fresher, more vibrant version of Franks/Crystal. https://www.thebrinery.com/our-products https://www.thebrinery.com/our-products
    - nemo44x 2y ago
      Chili Crunch is nice on eggs.
  - foobarian 2y ago
    I wish I could find how to make Frank's. The recipes on the Internet use the actual Frank's hot sauce as an ingredient.
    - upon_drumhead 2y ago
      I tried a copy-cat recipe one and it was underwealming. Later, I came across https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHlk4GviDXk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHlk4GviDXk which talks about their process. I think a key difference between the copy-cat recipes and real Franks is purely the fermentation. It's likely worth giving it a try with the fermentation advice going on here.
- hermitcrab 2y ago
  Is that the stuff you get in lots of US restaurants? If so, think it is quite bland. Subjective obviously.
  - michaeldh 2y ago
    Most of the time that's Tabasco sauce.
    - shaklee3 2y ago
      Tabasco, tapatio, and Cholula are very common in Mexican restaurants in CA
  - nemo44x 2y ago
    I think you're thinking of Tabasco. Which is supposed to be bland as it doesn't exist to impart new flavors so much as rather make the thing you're eating hot and slightly acidic. Serves a purpose. Hot sauce is a spectrum of intensity and flavors and Tabasco is definitely on the subtle side of the flavor spectrum.
    - hermitcrab 2y ago
      It might have been Cholula brand tabasco. I don't remember.
- __mharrison__ 2y ago
  I prefer Valentina to Cholula. Also cheaper.
- krs_ 2y ago
  Cholula is okay but of the big brands I think El Yucateco is my favorite.
  - willcipriano 2y ago
    I like that as well, don't have it in my store.
namdnay 2y ago
I think it depends on the store. In Montreal there’s a “micro-saucery”, I love the concept (and their sauces are great)
oldpersonintx 2y ago
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samstave 2y ago
I love all hot sauces, and my GF brings me random hot sauces often. Most recently gave me a bottle of https://i.imgur.com/f7o1FT9.png https://i.imgur.com/f7o1FT9.png TRUFF -- and my goodness, its my favorite one yet. Its amazing - and it pairs well with Wasabe Mayo... I rally need to make my own, but I mix raosted paprika into a lot of cooking I do with hotsauces...

dmoy 2y ago

Didn't see it mentioned in the article or picture, but you often get better results if you weigh down the stuff you're fermenting so it's always underneath the brine. Glass weights, literal rocks, or just an excess of brine, either way. If you do that, then the "fuzzies" the article mentioned basically never make an appearance.

throwup238 2y ago
> Glass weights, literal rocks, or just an excess of brine, either way. Alternatively, ziplock bag filled with water and a little air for buoyancy.
- MathMonkeyMan 2y ago
  Or the top of an onion, pushed down. Saw that on youtube and it's the idea I like best.
- bsilvereagle 2y ago
  > ziplock bag filled with water You’ll often see this done with brine instead of water so if the bag develops a leak the salt concentration of the ferment stays the same.
hermitcrab 2y ago
Author here. Fair comment. I did think about mentioning that. But I didn't want to get too much into the weeds. Better to watch some videos for all the details.
zikduruqe 2y ago
Well they can. It's called Kahm Yeast, https://melissaknorris.com/kahm-yeast/ https://melissaknorris.com/kahm-yeast/ I typically just skim it off. And you can't get botulism from fermenting. That is only in canning foods, since all the microbes are competing with each other. Good old C. botulinum can't hang.

doctorhandshake 2y ago

Can confirm most of this but I disagree with the advice to stop fermentation by any means. To the contrary I like to keep my lacto hot sauces fermenting in the fridge for a year before using them - much deeper, more complex flavor.

Duanemclemore 2y ago
Same. I have a fermented ghost pepper sauce that's been working in the fridge for almost a decade. I pretty much only use it to start other sauces these days but when I taste it, it's freaking fantastic.
dunham 2y ago
I also disagree with their lack of oxford comma. :) I did lacto once because I had a bunch of habanero from the farmers market and wanted something that could sit around for a while. But I usually don't plan ahead, so typically it's habanero and a garlic clove under the broiler and then blended with some lime juice - a bottle at a time, as needed. A recipe I got from Rick Bayless. The grocery store has been out for a few weeks, so I may need a different strategy. And I should branch out more.
- waldothedog 2y ago
  Rick Bayless is my hero
hermitcrab 2y ago
I took a batch and A/B tested it. Simmering one half, but not the other. I preferred the simmered batch. Not much of a sample size though...
- Dylan16807 2y ago
  Did you test it right away, or after some amount of time? If it improves the flavor right away, you can try option C of simmering not quite the entire batch, so that fermentation resumes after you recombine.

throwup238 2y ago

You don’t have to make a brine. I ferment my chilis in a vacuum sealed bag like those used for sous vide. Just pulse the ingredients a few times in a food processor and add 2% salt by weight. Since they don’t have much sugar I’ve never had to burp the bags. Makes it really easy to just have tons of bags fermenting without taking up lots of space or reusable containers. The Noma Guide to Fermentation has a lot more info.

SmellTheGlove 2y ago
Do you vacuum the bag and get all of the air out, or do you just kind of flatten it with your hand and seal it with space at the top for expansion? I assume it puffs up a lot. Do you have to vent and reseal it or can those bags handle it, assuming name brand food saver bags or something else that’s decent quality?
- throwup238 2y ago
  I vacuum the bag with a Foodsaver but the displacement method with a ziplock bag probably works too. I’ve only ever had to vent ferments with lots of fruit sugars like blueberry habanero. I just cut the bag, force some of the air out, then fold it over and use a binder clip. I don’t reseal them because the salt pulls out their liquid and I don’t have a chamber vacuum sealer.
  - dunham 2y ago
    Good to know it can be done with a food saver. I have the book on my shelf, but never got around to reading it. I've used a ziplock of water as a fermentation weight. I didn't know I could use a chamber sealer, and I have one (the "cheap" model VP112S - at $600 and only 57 lbs. - but I bought it 7 years ago and it's still going). I think I need to try this with some chilis.
  - SmellTheGlove 2y ago
    Thanks! I’m going to give this a try. I have a food saver I just wasn’t sure if I should leave space in the bag or not. Sounds like not and just vent the bag if it inflates too much.

MarkMarine 2y ago

I make my own hot sauce, but they were all kind of blah until I started growing my own chilis. I grow the bird’s eye chilis (piri piri) that is an important part of a number of Portuguese dishes that I like, including wonderful piri piri oil that I drizzle on many things. I always have extra chilis at the end of the year so I make sauce. There is a Portuguese sauce made from fermented red (sweet, large) peppers that I’ve never been able to get right though. Finding a recipe online is tough because this is a family recipe that gets passed down, many families have their own take on it, and I’m in California and don’t have any Portuguese relatives. If anyone makes massa de pimentão and has a recipe please share

silisili 2y ago
If you haven't already tried them, take a look at siling labuyo. They are a little smaller and hotter, and IMO better tasting. I've had tons of luck growing them in the US, even indoors over a winter once(light lamp). I like them so much I picked my username after them :)
- MarkMarine 2y ago
  Thanks for the recommendation, where did you get seeds for them?
  - silisili 2y ago
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/333733398766 https://www.ebay.com/itm/333733398766 I bought my last batch from that link and they tasted perfect. I used to just get them from local Filipino stores/communities, if you have any. A lot of people grew them when I was in Florida. My last house was in the desert, and wasn't able to find any locally so bought those off ebay.
vram22 2y ago
>started growing my own chilis I thought / have observed that the spelling "chili" (single letter l) was used for the US / Mexican dish called "chili con carne", and the spelling "chilly/chillies" was used for the hot pepper that came from the Americas and spread to much of the world. Edit: Wikipedia says both spellings are used for the hot pepper: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chili_pepper https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chili_pepper Edit 2: See the Spelling and usage section. It does not mention the y ending, but I have seen it in India.

shepherdjerred 2y ago

Anything home preserved makes me anxious. Canning, bottling, etc. It just sounds way too easy to poison yourself. That being said, this does sound really fun.

namdnay 2y ago
Anything that’s salty or acidic or sweet or fermented enough isn’t dangerous. So no risk for jams, hot sauces, beers, pickles etc. Canning fruit or vegetables requires more care
- candiddevmike 2y ago
  There's a lot of steps you're missing. Just by virtue of having those qualities does not mean it's safe, there is probably a lot of prep, cleaning, and boiling involved.
  - namdnay 2y ago
    Even without those steps the worst you’ll get is fur on the top. As long as you’re putting the correct weight of salt There’s no danger
candiddevmike 2y ago
Agreed... I can never find a hot sauce ferment recipe that has weights and measurements like sauerkraut or kimchi. Everything is too eyeball-ey and makes me super paranoid about not getting the right salt and ph. Botulism scares the shit out of me.
- ssl-3 2y ago
  There's only a few things to do with pepper ferments. It's not at all like baking a cake is. And it's far easier to accomplish safely than canning is. Only one ingredient must be measured before it is added: Salt. There is just not anything here that could be improved by adding specificity: 1. Use pure-ish water, if any water is used at all. Chlorine is bad. Buffering from dissolved minerals is also bad. (Distilled water is cheap; use that.) 2. Weigh water, if any, along with the peppers. 3. Add 2% non-iodized table salt, by weight. (Kosher salt works here, and has other uses.) 4. Mix it up in a suitable vessel (I prefer vacuum bags because the results are both flawless and easy), and put in a dark-ish place that is not cold. 5. Wait. That's really all there is.

ANarrativeApe 2y ago

I love that this has climbed to a medal position on the hacker news podium!

hermitcrab 2y ago
It dropped from 9th position to 85th position in about 30 minutes. So it appears that the mods or the HN algorithm weren't so happy about this.
- hermitcrab 2y ago
  Now back to position 17.
  - imp0cat 2y ago
    It's still fermenting. ;)
shever73 2y ago
...without even a recipe! I bookmarked it to read later, and was kind of disappointed that it was just a "I've learned how to make hot sauce" post.
- hermitcrab 2y ago
  I didn't feel expert enough to be telling people what to do in detail. I just wanted people to understand that it was pretty straighforward to do and the results could be excellent. For more details watch a Youtube video by someone who knows a lot more about it (e.g. the Chillichump channel linked in the article).

smallerfish 2y ago

I get my chili ferments going with live kombucha. I used to use my own, but no longer maintain a running kombucha batch, so I just buy some ultra hippy kombucha whenever I'm ready to start a new chili ferment. Basic recipe: blend together chilis, kombucha, and some filler (e.g. carrots, or fruit).

twic 2y ago
I did the same. From my notes: "frozen chillies (30 g), machine-chopped, boiled up with spring water (35 ml) and Himalayan salt (2.5 g), left to cool, mixed with ginger live kombucha (35 ml), left for a week (i was in a rush). Future versions could use twice as much chilli. Tolerably hot, with a heat that plateaus and then lasts." The chillies would have been Numex Bailey which i grew myself. I pick the fruits when they're ripe and freeze them until i have enough for a batch of sauce, hence using frozen chillies. Should work fine with fresh too.

fitsumbelay 2y ago

the fermentation step is a new one to me. I've always been vinegar, chillies, garlic/onions in the blender and call it a day but the result was always a bit south of satisfactory. excellent post

meroes 2y ago

I usually go for a quick and dirty start-to-finish in a day recipe when I’m craving hot sauce. I don’t have much patience or long term storage or want to gamble with botulism, so I don’t ferment. A very very rough recipe is: - 4 lbs of dried chiles de arbol (no seeds or stems) - 1.5 lbs each of Serranos and Jalapeños - 1 lb of habaneros - 4 large carrots - half cup of garlic - about 2 gallons of white vinegar - a little salt and maybe a cup of water I like the idea of adding some mangoes from the link so maybe add 2-3? Rough chop everything and take out stems and the majority of seeds. Start heating the arbols in a very large boil pot outside (on a grill or its own propane burner). Then after 15 mins add the other peppers and salt. 15 mins later add the veggies, 5 mins later pour the vinegar and water if needed in so that it just covers the chiles. You might not use all the vinegar. Heat to a low boil for 2 hours. Let it cool for 20 mins, blend it in batches till smooth. Then transfer the blended batches back to the pot and reboil for 10 mins. Then pot directly into mason jars. Stir occasionally throughout so nothing burns, but some color is good at the beginning. It feels pretty safe. It’s very very hot but that’s how I like it and makes it last longer. It’s not as smooth as the off the shelf hot sauces, but not quite as thick as the chile hot sauce in Asian restaurants. Oh and don’t touch your eyes or sensitive areas. Maybe it’s just me but chiles have decreased in hotness in the past decade. Like a habanero or jalapeño is not as hot as they used to be. For jalapeños, there used to be like 1/5 that would floor you, so their average hotness was quite higher. Now it seems like all jalapeños I buy are the same, which reduces the average heat so I have to add more habaneros.

cyb_ 2y ago
The article below claims that milder store-bought peppers are the result of growers using different varieties, which is driven by larger (factory) consumers of the peppers. https://www.dmagazine.com/food-drink/2023/05/why-jalapeno-peppers-less-spicy-blame-aggies/ https://www.dmagazine.com/food-drink/2023/05/why-jalapeno-pe...
- meroes 2y ago
  Ah that makes sense. Seems to be in large part because there are varieties that are lower heat but higher flavor, and ceteris paribus, getting away with less jalapeno for same or greater flavor saves money. I wonder if anyone's weighed the amount of actual jalapeno in a jar of tostito's queso. Probably like a quarter gram.

kylehotchkiss 2y ago

Your labels are my favorite! Love the rocket ship

r0s 2y ago

Hot take about fermentation in these recipes. > Lacto-ferment chillis with your choice of veg and/or fruit in a brine solution for a couple of weeks at room temperature. Room temperature is no kind of standard. Optimal fermentation is up to about 75f max. I live in the south and most of the year room temp for me is at least 76. I've ruined several batches of lacto-fermented experiments before making that connection. Don't get me started on vague salt measurements like "seawater" taste.

hansvm 2y ago

A few notes: 1. Botulism is nearly a non-issue in lacto fermentation. As the article mentions, salt and acid inhibit its growth. For an extra layer of protection, you can add a bit of vinegar at the start of the process to further encourage the growth of safe microorganisms. Botulism only starts becoming an issue when you have low-salt, low-acid preparations, or when you start the process like you would in traditional canning (boiling the fermentation mixture ahead of time -- getting rid of all competition for the botulism). If you cook the peppers you should make sure to pitch in a significant quantity of yeast and/or lactic acid producing bacteria. 1a. Botulism is a lot higher risk if you stabilize the mixture (the "simmering it in a pan to thicken" step) before storing it. That kills any safe microorganisms and again opens up the door for an infection from something dangerous (though, as the article mentions, it's less risky because of the accumulated salt and acid in the final product). 2. Mold requires a stable, aerobic environment to grow. Completely submerging the peppers suffices, as does using some form of air-lock, but you can also almost always get away with just stirring it twice each day. 3. Sugar can make the fermentation work better. The suggestion of fruit to achieve that is a great idea. As a side-note, mango is particularly delicious fermented on its own (halves or other large chunks, fermented just till there's a lot of CO2 bubbles, making them fruit chunks sparkly, no longer or it gets mushy). > kills off the fermentation. 4. That has pros and cons. Fermented foods "keep" better while still fermenting (in terms of food safety), but the texture and flavor can degrade (it varies, look at how fantastic kimchi is as an example of longer fermentations being beneficial). Once hybrid strategy if you still want the improved texture from cooking is to reserve some of the pre-cooked sauce and re-introduce after cooking, re-innoculating it with yeast and bacteria. It'll tend to keep a lot longer if you do so. The flavor changes can be good or bad. It'll build up pressure over time though, so don't seal it air-tight.

tptacek 2y ago
Just for what it's worth, for all the talk about botulism in all these stories, the US had just nineteen cases of confirmed food-borne botulism in 2019 (the last year I can see data for); about half were commercial, and 4 were an outbreak linked to "home-prepared fermented beluga flipper". I don't think fermented hot sauce is taking anybody out. At least, not that way. (I'm fascinated by this because it's an article of faith that you can't store garlic confit or garlic oil in the fridge, but it's very difficult to find a case of anyone contracting botulism from cooked garlic, and when I get taken out by a case of garlic botulism, you all have my permission to write your dunks directly onto my gravestone).

linsomniac 2y ago

Don't underestimate making a fresh rather than fermented sauce. Years ago at work I made a green chili sauce, basically just blended some peppers, vinegar, salt, and spices. I think it was 4-6 anaheims, a couple jalapinos, and garlic. Pretty simple and quite delicious. I'll also second the article's recommendation for Ring of Fire, the Habanero variety (they have a lot of varieties).

cnity 2y ago
I did this with mango and scotch bonnet peppers (with garlic and carrot, vinegar and seasoning) and it is very delicious.
Dunati 2y ago
If you blend this with some neutral vegetable oil, the sauce forms a creamy looking emulsion and is quite tasty.
Sohcahtoa82 2y ago
I've been kind of wanting to try to make a super-smokey pepper sauce. Thinking of getting poblanos, hatch, and/or jalapeno, smoking them on the pellet grill for 24+ hours using mesquite, then blending with vinegar, salt, and some spices.

SimianLogic 2y ago

My favorite DIY hot sauce is manzanos and dragonfruit. The little black seeds make it look awesome and manzanos are a nice slow burn.

jerrysievert 2y ago

I lacto-ferment hot sauce on a regular basis (and give most of it away). my go-to brine is by weight, which eliminates a bunch of issues: * 400g water * 26g salt this makes for a great brine without trying to estimate or "taste" it to see if it's ok. in addition, I sometimes use adjuncts: * garlic - this adds a lot of flavor to the sauce, but could add yeast if you're not careful * carrots - adds some vegetable flavor and a little bit of sweetness without adding sugar directly I also don't pasteurize it (heat it up after it's done, or add vinegar), since I prefer the natural change that the sauce has over time. I also don't "thicken" it, you can get a better sauce by using the correct amount of brine when you go to blend it at the end, if all else fails, any leftover brine can be used for other things (I have some great pickles that were started with a partial batch of brine). it's a fun hobby, but make sure that you can find a home for the extras if you aren't an avid hot sauce eater! editing to add some tips: 1. if you're dealing with hot peppers, use gloves - they help a lot! 2. the seeds and the pith add a lot of heat - you can remove them and get yourself delicious flavor without the pain.

cshimmin 2y ago
Have you ever made “hot” sauce with bell peppers? My wife has literally zero tolerance for spicy food, wondering if I could make some kind of capsaicin-free sauce that gives some of the flavor of eg sriracha or tapatio, etc.
- ibejoeb 2y ago
  Yes, generally. It won't have the flavor of either of those, but you will be able to adjust that with with flavors that don't impart heat. For something like tapatio, probably garlic, cumin, and a more neutral vinegar like a greek white wine vinegar. Maybe even bay leaf. Stick with green bell peppers, because riper ones are going to be much fruitier. Also, check out Habanada peppers.
- copperx 2y ago
  The better bet would be to use green tomatillos instead of peppers as the main flavor.
- 2y ago

dzhiurgis 2y ago

Unsure if this is going to hit right spot, but if you can't be bothered with fermentation and prefer storing your chilli in freezer - try making Thai chilli dipping sauce - Nam Jim Jaew. Takes few minutes and stores for few weeks in fridge. Works well on avocado toast.

flobosg 2y ago

Related: “How to Make Fermented Hot Sauce” – https://www.seriouseats.com/fermented-hot-sauce-how-to https://www.seriouseats.com/fermented-hot-sauce-how-to (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32486504 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32486504)

VoodooJuJu 2y ago

>So make sure the fermentation vessel is airtight and everything is clean Making it airtight would actually increase the risk of botulism, because the bacteria is anaerobic. Also, the botulism bacteria wouldn't survive such an acidic and salty fermentation environment anyway. Have a better chance of getting both struck by lightning and winning the lottery multiple times in a row than dying from botulism, even in an environment that's ideal for it. I wonder why botulism even gets a mention in modern discussions of traditional fermenting and food preservation. It's unbelievably rare and really only occurs in modern preservation methods, like canning, and commercially-prepared food. I just don't understand why it gets a mention at all. When I see it pop up in tutorials about traditional curing and fermenting, it's an immediate red flag about the quality of the tutorial. It's one of those common misinformation things that won't die because of all the momentum behind it. And the misinformation ought to stop, because it's giving us cancer, because industry and home-curers think they need to load nitrites into their meat to make it safe, which is terrible for you.

bsder 2y ago
> I wonder why botulism even gets a mention in modern discussions of traditional fermenting and food preservation. Because too many "natural health" people don't understand actual health risks. Botulism pops up because "<flavor> infused oils" became a thing and people started dumping uncooked garlic into them. And then a bunch of people got sick with botulism because a low salt, neutral pH, anerobic (the oil blocks oxygen) environment is practically tailor-made for incubating botulism. "Classic" recipes for preservation generally make sure to have salt, nitrates, low pH and little oil/fat (and generally a combination of them). Guess why? Most pathogens don't like salts (curing) or acid (most canning). Some of the worst (like botulism) don't like oxygen and oil/fat can block oxygen. You can even see the ignorance in the comments here. Some people were talking about putting non-acidic things in a vacuum seal without a pressure boil (240-250F). No. Bad. Very Bad. Take a look at things playing out in "raw milk" right now. "Pasteurization" was hailed as a breakthrough for a reason--it is. I hate the "industrialization" of our food chain as much as anybody (I simply cannot find a tomato that doesn't suck). However, you solve that by breaking up the cartels--not by wiping out food safety. As for nitrates, a lot of the problem is the fact that the "industrial" process pumps the meat with a LOT more nitrates than people would use at home. When properly cured, most of the nitrates in meat have chemically reacted and there is very little residual. Industrial processes worry more about running out and so pump the meat so full of them that there is a ton of nitrate still left in the meat even after curing. It is this unreacted nitrate residue that seems to "cause problems".

janandonly 2y ago

It so happens that a few months back a friend of mine started to make his own hot sauces. Shameless plug for his Dutch website here: https://lavasaus.nl/ https://lavasaus.nl/

gwd 2y ago

> If you are careless, you could end up with botulism, one of the deadliest toxin known to man! So make sure the fermentation vessel is airtight and everything is clean. I'm not an expert, but from what I've heard about botulism, that's recklessly irresponsible advice. (Do your own research before taking the advice below.) The whole point is that: 1. Botulism spores are everywhere. 2. They only reproduce when the conditions are right. Guess what those conditions are? a) Not too acidic b) NO OXYGEN. 3. Soap doesn't kill them. Boiling at at STP doesn't kill them. The only way to kill them is to boil them at a high enough pressure that the temperature. Therefore, "make sure everything is clean" is useless advice; and "make sure everything is airtight" just helps you make sure the conditions are right to be poisoned. Two ways to counter botulism. Either: 1. Boil things at the right pressure for long enough (with a pressure gauge to make sure it's actually at the specified pressure) to kill the spores 2. Make sure it's acidic enough to keep the spores asleep. EDIT: My point wasn't "Don't bottle things like hot sauce at home". I bottle things at home myself. And I bet his recipe is perfectly safe -- not because he keeps things airtight and clean, but because it's acidic. If he had said, "Watch out for botulism but this is safe because it's acidic", then people using his recipe will make sure to keep things acidic as well, and if they dilute the acidity, they'll be warned to look up the pH required to be safe. But instead he said, "Watch out for botulism, make sure everything is airtight and clean"; which means people might take his recipe and reduce the acidity, believing themselves still to be safe because they're keeping things airtight and clean. That is what's reckless about the advice. Also, another condition botulism requires is to be above 5C. So what I actually do myself is bottle things that are acidic, and then keep them in the fridge. I don't typically make more than a few jars a year, so that's sufficient for me; if I was going to can things properly, I'd get pH testers and/or a pressure cooker with a gauge.

nope-prime 2y ago
[flagged]
ipsento606 2y ago
Botulism is a risk in the home canning of low-acidity foods. It is virtually unheard of in the lacto-fermentation of foods not containing animal products. I'm not aware of a single confirmed case in the US, ever. If anyone is concerned about it, the simplest thing to do is buy an inexpensive pH tester and confirm the brine's pH is below 4.6

woile 2y ago

I've also started preparing my own fermented hot sauce, you can find it here: https://www.reciperium.com/woile/fermented-chili-sauce https://www.reciperium.com/woile/fermented-chili-sauce It's delicious, I just recently started experimenting with fermentation

twic 2y ago

I made fermented hot sauce once, and i don't think it was sufficiently different to other kinds to be worth doing again. But then, i have only done it once! I think my favourite hot sauces have started by drying the chillies, then toasting them in a pan. This adds a lovely smoky, rich flavour. In terms of other additives, i recently made a rather long winded rum and coke themed hot sauce, the main lesson from which is that orange peel goes amazingly with chilli. I am now thinking about a chocolate orange hot sauce, built around toasted chillies, orange peel, and cocoa powder perhaps. Can i make an orange peel oleo saccharum using citric acid, and use that instead of vinegar? Should i make it oil-based? Use crème de cacao?! Much to ponder. If you're going to grow your own chillies, i can highly recommend NuMex Bailey: https://cpi.nmsu.edu/_assets/documents/Bailey.full_.pdf https://cpi.nmsu.edu/_assets/documents/Bailey.full_.pdf It's a pequin pepper, so very small, but hot and with good flavour. This particular strain grows like the clappers, forming a compact, dense bush, which is covered in flowers and then fruit, which as the paper says, are very easy to pick when ripe. The productivity in terms of mass of fruit per unit of pot area is far better than anything else i've grown. It seems to be impossible to kill, too.

shadytrees 2y ago
> I made fermented hot sauce once, and i don't think it was sufficiently different to other kinds to be worth doing again. But then, i have only done it once! +1. I spent hours lovingly sanitizing and prepping and waiting for habaneros to ferment; in the end, they added a bit of funky tang, but I didn't feel like it was worth the time. I realized that vinegar-based hot sauce recipes are quicker to iterate on and perfect and taste closer to what I prefer. However, it's all subjective! Watching something ferment in a container is inherently fun, in the way a terrarium with a small creature in it can be. YMMV.
fullspectrumdev 2y ago
This has given me some wonderful ideas for my next attempts at hot sauce. I wonder if I could get a nice flavour profile from using some smoked/toasted (dried) peppers and some untreated ones in a fermentation? Would there be a nice flavour combination of the Smokey and Tangy aspects that I enjoy? My last efforts at growing my own chilli’s were going extremely well until I went away for a month, forgot to leave instructions for their care, and they died off beyond recovery.

abrugsch 2y ago

Congrats on the hot sauce results! I made my own last summer too (first time making a sauce, I previously made Chilli Jams from my home grown peppers) and last summer I had a very productive Wraith chilli plant which produce pods far too hot to do much else with so I found a recipe I wanted to try. I didn't lacto-ferment them but I did make one similar to your mango one (I used a fresh pineapple and fresh mango plus some honey and IIRC cumin) and like yourself, found it one of the most amazing sauces I've ever had. It was sweet and tangy, super flavourful and HOT AS HELL! I put it on everything and because of the "chilli high" I was getting from it decided to nickname it Pineapple Express. I was hoping to make another batch this season but the plant, despite over-wintering well, has barely grown and is only just now producing flowers which I'm pretty sure will produce very small pods if they are even successful...

waffletower 2y ago

I have been making my own hot sauce for almost a decade and have chosen to skip fermentation, taqueria-style. I tend to make a blender-full at a time, use dried chiles, use a small amount of salt and vinegar and refrigerate what I make in a few dishwasher cleaned mason jars. We use it quickly enough that I have never noticed any unwanted mold or growth. I have commonly noticed such growth from opened store-bought salsa which is undoubtedly less acidic (and spicy).

sowbug 2y ago

Last year I tried making a Sriracha recipe, but had to use green jalapeños because I couldn't find red ones. I hear that a red jalapeño is simply a green one that was allowed to ripen, so I can see why farmers might not have the time to produce red ones. I'm now patiently growing some jalapeños in my backyard. Meanwhile, anyone know a source for red jalapeños?

HeyLaughingBoy 2y ago
Depending on your zone, they may not live long enough to turn red. I'm in MN and when growing serranos, I had to bring them inside before I got any red ones. Happily, though, they continued to fruit indoors throughout the winter.
- sowbug 2y ago
  I hadn't thought of that. Fortunately, they're growing in a fabric pot, so I can take them in when the weather turns.

seanwilson 2y ago

For botulism, how risky is making jam? It's not that acidic, not salty, the fruit isn't heated to a high temperature, and the jam is put in a sealed container after so there's risks? I've seen white/green mold in homemade blueberry jam before but never figured out what went wrong there.

ipsento606 2y ago
most jam is very acidic so botulism is not a concern

MisterBastahrd 2y ago

If you're worried about sanitizing your gear to prevent infections in your product, do yourself a favor and buy some starsan from a homebrew shop. It's a food-safe sanitizer you use on the gear (bottles, spoons, etc) to ensure that it's safe.