12 ms·

No reasonable expectation of privacy in one's Google location data

218 points by DanAtC 2y ago

autoexec 2y ago
> Location History is turned off by default, so a user must take several affirmative steps before Google begins tracking and storing his Location History data. Do people really think Google isn't tracking location data without this setting enabled? How would anyone (save for a whistleblower) know? Location history seems like the data Google lets you collect/see for yourself, and not the totality of location data (which includes data collected from nearby wifi networks, nearby cellphones, and other bluetooth devices) that google collects. > Even after a user opts in, he maintains some control over his location data. He can review, edit, or delete any information that Google has already obtained. This is pretty misleading. You can see the location information your device sent to google, but you can't see or delete the assumptions that google has made about you based on that data. A list of GPS coordinates showing where you frequently go on Saturday nights isn't what people are concerned about Google having. The fact that those GPS coordinates show that you spend hours at, for example, a gay bar is more of an issue. It doesn't matter if you delete the list of GPS coordinates from your google account because what you can't delete is the "This user is gay and often goes to gay bars on Saturdays" flag that google put there the instant they got that data. No matter what you delete that data stays with Google along with the "here's how long this user stays at the gay bar, when they usually leave, where they go afterwards, and who they are with when they do" flags. I think what happened to this guy (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/google-tracked-his-bike-ride-past-burglarized-home-made-him-n1151761 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/google-tracked-his-bike...) is a good indication that the entire system and the way it's being used by police is flawed and dangerous. Even worse, the situation with google is just the tip of the iceberg because it's not just our phones that are tracking us. It's also our cell phone companies, the random cameras and license plate/toll transponder readers we pass by, our "smart" cars, etc. There's so much tracking going on that the typically American has zero control over at all, but which police (and others) could tap into. We really need more protections against this.
- ta8645 2y ago
  My mother was told that she spent over 200 hours shopping last month. When she looked into it, Google had tracked all the time spent at the retail store she operates. It was amusing and annoying at the same time. She never asked Google to track her location.
  - autoexec 2y ago
    Told by Google? Are they giving people stats like that? How did she get the message?
    - acomjean 2y ago
      They send an email. “You're receiving this email because you turned on Location History, a Google Account-level setting that creates Timeline, a personal map of your visited places, routes, and trips. You can view, edit, and delete this data anytime in Timeline. Timeline is changing. To avoid losing visits and routes, update your settings by December 8, 2024.“ ……
- Hnrobert42 2y ago
  I completely distrust Google. I have no Google apps on my iPhone. I don't use any Google services. But I do not believe they have any other identity-linked location data. The way you would know is that there would be an article about the police requesting it.
  - autoexec 2y ago
    > The way you would know is that there would be an article about the police requesting it. I think police just send requests to google for location info without specifying how that data was obtained. It's either, "Tell us everything you know about the location of this user between timestamp one and timestamp two", or "Tell us everything you know about all persons within however many miles of this location between timestamp one and timestamp two" and they don't bother sending requests like "Give us the data from your Location Reporting feature" or "Give us all the data from your Find My Phone feature" or "Give us all the data from your Nearby Connections API"
toomuchtodo 2y ago
Google is pushing location data to devices and purging it on servers. From a citation within my comment I’ve cited below: > This change means that Google will no longer respond to geofence warrants from law enforcement that request information on all devices near a particular incident. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40869536 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40869536 (edit to fix my mistake, thank you Centigonal!)
- Centigonal 2y ago
  purging it from their servers*
- judge2020 2y ago
  The actual accuracy is worse than before but it’s a welcome change. They do still offer a way to keep an encrypted backup of the database on Google servers (so you don’t lose it if you lose your phone) but its disabled by default and it doesn’t even have a modal popup making it easy to enable backups, you have to specifically click the UI button to see the modal with the info sheet and a button to enable backing it up.
  - modeless 2y ago
    Thank you for posting this. I had no idea that there was a default off option to keep encrypted backups. I would be pretty mad if I lost all my years of timeline data because I switched phones. It's ridiculous that Google didn't even show an option for this in the long and needlessly convoluted migration process.
    - renewiltord 2y ago
      It looks like they did the right thing since privacy advocates don't even consider that sufficiently difficult https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40959052 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40959052
      - paiute 2y ago
gleenn 2y ago
How is turning on a feature the same thing as handing data it collects to Google etc? I turned on computer backups, does that mean the feds can read all of that?
- lokar 2y ago
  Sharing your personal information with a 3rd party reduces your claim to privacy and 4th amendment rights.
  - ranger_danger 2y ago
    pretty sure one of the 47 agree buttons people blindly click on while using their phone has given them the permission already
    - lokar 2y ago
      I mean, you have no (or limited) 4th amendment rights in regards to information you have given or shared with someone else.
    - gruez 2y ago
      Source? According to the article it's presented to the user in pretty straightforward language: >Before he can activate the setting, however, Google always presents him language that explains the basics of the service. Moreover, most people did not blindly click through all the prompts: >Roughly one-third of active Google users have enabled Location History.
      - ranger_danger 2y ago
        I don't have a direct source but I found some other posts that suggest many people are unknowingly turning it on. "While this feature is turned off by default, many of Google's services and apps require it to be turned on, so unless you're actively keeping it off, there's a good chance it's enabled for your Google account." https://www.xda-developers.com/google-location-history/ https://www.xda-developers.com/google-location-history/ "lots of people seem to have it switched on without even realising" https://news.sophos.com/en-us/2017/10/03/the-google-tracking-feature-you-didnt-know-youd-switched-on/ https://news.sophos.com/en-us/2017/10/03/the-google-tracking... Also, "Turning off the timeline feature doesn’t remove Google’s access to your location data as long as you use it for navigation and Google searches." https://www.guidingtech.com/how-to-view-and-manage-location-history-in-google-maps/ https://www.guidingtech.com/how-to-view-and-manage-location-...
jmward01 2y ago
Missing from this is the reality that the modern world increasingly requires using these applications. It is meaningless to present an option you are forced to agree to. Additionally there is, to me, a big difference between me enabling an app to use my data for the service I believe it provides and them using it for everything else.
- vineyardmike 2y ago
  > enabling an app to use my data for the service I believe it provides and them using it for everything else. I completely agree, but I think we need to push society away from requiring for profit products into our life, or at least recognize that they have an association cost to the user. What is the reasonable expectation of a business to profit off a product that we’ve deemed “required”? Who would make or support a product they can’t profit on? In the EU, they required Facebook to offer a no-tracking version of the product, which meta replied by making a paid tier. Then they required Facebook to not charge for their no-tracking version. So why should facebook stay in the EU if it can’t profit from providing a service? While no one will shed a tear over Meta’s business, it is a massive way for people to connect with each other. Google Maps could theoretically suffer the same fate - and free access to maps seems like a public good. YouTube is another example that can be for the public good due to its educational content. The list of products that are “free” and probably good for society is huge now thanks to effective online advertising. I don’t want us to shed a tear for billionaire-corporations profit margins, but instead address that we’ve come to rely on them and they probably won’t be altruistic about watching their profits legislated away.
  - m463 2y ago
    > but I think we need to push society away from requiring for profit products into our life The following sites use google services and google analytics: irs.gov ftb.ca.gov (california state tax authority) dmv.ca.gov (california department of motor vehicles) how can you avoid these things? if money is involved, recaptcha is generally a non-blockable requirement.
  - photonthug 2y ago
jhallenworld 2y ago
One consolation: it works both ways with this kind of data. For example, it can corroborate your story.
- taneq 2y ago
  Is there any obligation to announce exonerating data found by prosecutors during a dragnet search? I was under the impression that they could just pick something that makes you look bad and build a case on that, and that unless your defence has access to all the same data (do they?) and is equally motivated and funded, that in this case you’re probably just boned.
  - jhallenworld 2y ago
    You have access to your own location data, at least if you have location history enabled. It's an interesting question if defense can request this data from google if you don't have it enabled..
  - hollerith 2y ago
    There is such an obligation. In fact, just yesterday, a judge dismissed a case in the middle of a trial to punish a prosecutor for not disclosing information to the defense -- and the information had only a tenuous relevance to the case: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jul/12/a-botched-prosecution-alec-baldwins-trial-gets-shock-ending-fit-for-hollywood https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jul/12/a-bo...
    - taneq 2y ago
      Huh, good to know! Thanks.
      - hollerith 2y ago
        More info: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brady_disclosure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brady_disclosure
- 2y ago
steelframe 2y ago
I run GrapheneOS on my phone and have all location permissions denied for everything except for (offline) Organic Maps. I also make it a habit of keeping airplane mode enabled except on the (very) rare occasion when I need to make an outbound phone call while out of the house. With the recent revelations about the triangulated location data that AT&T left exposed for all of its customers I don't feel like this is an overreaction.
- kibwen 2y ago
  It's not an overreaction. The idea of everyone willingly sharing the details of their every movement with sociopathic corporations who are beholden to national security letters would have been met with ridicule 30 years ago.
  - inejge 2y ago
    I don't think that actual history supports that assertion. 30 years ago, cellular networks were really taking off and people were starting to use mobile phones en masse. Always on, pinging the base stations, delivering that data to equally sociopathic and beholden carriers. The public was not up in arms. What's changed in the meantime, aside from the richness and granularity of location data, is awareness of the potential for the abuse of it all, supported by well-publicized incidents. Which is a good thing; the public is quite tolerant of invisible machinations, as long as they remain distant and abstract.
    - ramses0 2y ago
      No. The _ability_ to exploit it "en-masse" didn't exist 30 years ago. Random dell advertisement shows 16mb RAM (max 64mb), and 450mb HD. https://www.reddit.com/r/nostalgia/comments/49o9tm/dell_optiplex_magazine_advertisement_from_1994/ https://www.reddit.com/r/nostalgia/comments/49o9tm/dell_opti... Keep in mind, these are Mb, not Gb! Nowadays with a raspberry pi and a 128gb SD card you can go to town on "all location data for the last year for all American cell phones". Back in 1994, even coordinating reliable central writes of all that location data would have been extraordinarily complicated, and there was not yet a panopticon appetite that would attempt the endeavor without a heavily funded psychopath behind it. As "we the industry" have gotten more capable (and comfortable) processing huge quantities of data (eg: post map-reduce), and the hardware requirements have fallen to "my cell phone could compute it in an hour", the risk has increased tremendously. Same story with muskets, cannons and tanks vs AK-47's. "Gun Control" in the musket era is materially different than an era of AK-47's and drones. Same with data processing.
pau7l4u9 2y ago
[flagged]
BenFranklin100 2y ago
Get an iPhone. Android and iOS are equivalent, while Apple’s revenue is overwhelmingly based on hardware and services, unlike Google’s revenue which is overwhelmingly based on advertising and tracking.
- titaniumtown 2y ago
  I use GrapheneOS with my Pixel 7 with no issues. I won't ever buy an apple device. If the OS isn't opensource, I'm not buying it.
  - biglady654 2y ago
    Have you personally compiled and set up that OS on your Pixel 7?
- poisonborz 2y ago
  > Android and iOS are equivalent How can you write this after using both for like 10 minutes
  - BenFranklin100 2y ago
    iOS is a bit better, but honestly I think Android is just fine. I don’t see a big difference for most users.
    - poisonborz 2y ago
      HN ist not "most users". Yes they both have apps, an icon grid, a swipe down notification panel... but there are oceans of difference beyond that surface. HN is always full of new ones.
- add-sub-mul-div 2y ago
  Apple sells your traffic to Google for tens of billions of dollars. Of course they're not leaving the equivalent money on the table, they just hope people will be fooled by the indirection.
Sytten 2y ago
Is there an alternative to google location history that is privacy friendly? I like the feature during trips to record where I went. Maybe just me but when I get a bit nostalgic I like to retrace my steps and find again some lost memories/places.
- titaniumtown 2y ago
  I've personally heard of https://owntracks.org/ https://owntracks.org/ though I haven't been able to try it myself. Seems like a location history and see where other members of your instance are.
- boschfish 2y ago
  I have been using https://scoria.info/ https://scoria.info/. It is privacy first and offers great flexibility with how you can filter, view, and export your location data.
  - bad_username 2y ago
    Importing existing Google timeline data would be useful, but doesn't look like it's supported.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- modeless 2y ago
  Google Location History is privacy friendly now. It was just recently changed a month or two ago and it no longer works in the way the article describes. The history data is now stored on your phone. Cloud backups are optional and default off and always end-to-end encrypted if enabled, so your location history database is not ever accessible to any Google server. Google made this change in response to issues like the ones described in this article.
  - krackers 2y ago
    >not ever accessible to any google server How can they use it for ad targeting then?
treebeard901 2y ago
Location history is really just a setting asking if you want to see your own location data. All of your location data from the E911 system through to Google Play Services and on to maps, etc is constantly being collected then sold and collated among all these companies. It is impossible on a modern cellphone to fully disable reporting of your location to any provider in the stack.
rurban 2y ago
The SensorVault warrants going back decades were already explained in a 2019 nyt times article, which is stolen here. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/04/13/us/google-location-tracking-police.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/04/13/us/google-loc... They can even solve cold cases. What is new is that users can opt-out of location tracking. They won't purge SensorVault though (location reporting).
Quarondeau 2y ago
That is definitely not true for everyone who has had their Google account for years, because back then, location data was an opt-out feature. I definitely never actively opted in, and Google never disabled the tracking to force previous tacit consenters to opt in to account for the cultural shift from opt-out to opt-in, which probably happened in the early 2010s?
sans_souse 2y ago
I wonder if that entire User Location repo will one day end up leaked..
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

218 points by DanAtC 2y ago

> Location History is turned off by default, so a user must take several affirmative steps before Google begins tracking and storing his Location History data. Do people really think Google isn't tracking location data without this setting enabled? How would anyone (save for a whistleblower) know? Location history seems like the data Google lets you collect/see for yourself, and not the totality of location data (which includes data collected from nearby wifi networks, nearby cellphones, and other bluetooth devices) that google collects. > Even after a user opts in, he maintains some control over his location data. He can review, edit, or delete any information that Google has already obtained. This is pretty misleading. You can see the location information your device sent to google, but you can't see or delete the assumptions that google has made about you based on that data. A list of GPS coordinates showing where you frequently go on Saturday nights isn't what people are concerned about Google having. The fact that those GPS coordinates show that you spend hours at, for example, a gay bar is more of an issue. It doesn't matter if you delete the list of GPS coordinates from your google account because what you can't delete is the "This user is gay and often goes to gay bars on Saturdays" flag that google put there the instant they got that data. No matter what you delete that data stays with Google along with the "here's how long this user stays at the gay bar, when they usually leave, where they go afterwards, and who they are with when they do" flags. I think what happened to this guy (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/google-tracked-his-bike-ride-past-burglarized-home-made-him-n1151761 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/google-tracked-his-bike...) is a good indication that the entire system and the way it's being used by police is flawed and dangerous. Even worse, the situation with google is just the tip of the iceberg because it's not just our phones that are tracking us. It's also our cell phone companies, the random cameras and license plate/toll transponder readers we pass by, our "smart" cars, etc. There's so much tracking going on that the typically American has zero control over at all, but which police (and others) could tap into. We really need more protections against this.

ta8645 2y ago
My mother was told that she spent over 200 hours shopping last month. When she looked into it, Google had tracked all the time spent at the retail store she operates. It was amusing and annoying at the same time. She never asked Google to track her location.
- autoexec 2y ago
  Told by Google? Are they giving people stats like that? How did she get the message?
  - acomjean 2y ago
    They send an email. “You're receiving this email because you turned on Location History, a Google Account-level setting that creates Timeline, a personal map of your visited places, routes, and trips. You can view, edit, and delete this data anytime in Timeline. Timeline is changing. To avoid losing visits and routes, update your settings by December 8, 2024.“ ……
Hnrobert42 2y ago
I completely distrust Google. I have no Google apps on my iPhone. I don't use any Google services. But I do not believe they have any other identity-linked location data. The way you would know is that there would be an article about the police requesting it.
- autoexec 2y ago
  > The way you would know is that there would be an article about the police requesting it. I think police just send requests to google for location info without specifying how that data was obtained. It's either, "Tell us everything you know about the location of this user between timestamp one and timestamp two", or "Tell us everything you know about all persons within however many miles of this location between timestamp one and timestamp two" and they don't bother sending requests like "Give us the data from your Location Reporting feature" or "Give us all the data from your Find My Phone feature" or "Give us all the data from your Nearby Connections API"

toomuchtodo 2y ago

Google is pushing location data to devices and purging it on servers. From a citation within my comment I’ve cited below: > This change means that Google will no longer respond to geofence warrants from law enforcement that request information on all devices near a particular incident. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40869536 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40869536 (edit to fix my mistake, thank you Centigonal!)

Centigonal 2y ago
purging it from their servers*
judge2020 2y ago
The actual accuracy is worse than before but it’s a welcome change. They do still offer a way to keep an encrypted backup of the database on Google servers (so you don’t lose it if you lose your phone) but its disabled by default and it doesn’t even have a modal popup making it easy to enable backups, you have to specifically click the UI button to see the modal with the info sheet and a button to enable backing it up.
- modeless 2y ago
  Thank you for posting this. I had no idea that there was a default off option to keep encrypted backups. I would be pretty mad if I lost all my years of timeline data because I switched phones. It's ridiculous that Google didn't even show an option for this in the long and needlessly convoluted migration process.
  - renewiltord 2y ago
    It looks like they did the right thing since privacy advocates don't even consider that sufficiently difficult https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40959052 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40959052
    - paiute 2y ago

gleenn 2y ago

How is turning on a feature the same thing as handing data it collects to Google etc? I turned on computer backups, does that mean the feds can read all of that?

lokar 2y ago
Sharing your personal information with a 3rd party reduces your claim to privacy and 4th amendment rights.
- ranger_danger 2y ago
  pretty sure one of the 47 agree buttons people blindly click on while using their phone has given them the permission already
  - lokar 2y ago
    I mean, you have no (or limited) 4th amendment rights in regards to information you have given or shared with someone else.
  - gruez 2y ago
    Source? According to the article it's presented to the user in pretty straightforward language: >Before he can activate the setting, however, Google always presents him language that explains the basics of the service. Moreover, most people did not blindly click through all the prompts: >Roughly one-third of active Google users have enabled Location History.
    - ranger_danger 2y ago
      I don't have a direct source but I found some other posts that suggest many people are unknowingly turning it on. "While this feature is turned off by default, many of Google's services and apps require it to be turned on, so unless you're actively keeping it off, there's a good chance it's enabled for your Google account." https://www.xda-developers.com/google-location-history/ https://www.xda-developers.com/google-location-history/ "lots of people seem to have it switched on without even realising" https://news.sophos.com/en-us/2017/10/03/the-google-tracking-feature-you-didnt-know-youd-switched-on/ https://news.sophos.com/en-us/2017/10/03/the-google-tracking... Also, "Turning off the timeline feature doesn’t remove Google’s access to your location data as long as you use it for navigation and Google searches." https://www.guidingtech.com/how-to-view-and-manage-location-history-in-google-maps/ https://www.guidingtech.com/how-to-view-and-manage-location-...

jmward01 2y ago

Missing from this is the reality that the modern world increasingly requires using these applications. It is meaningless to present an option you are forced to agree to. Additionally there is, to me, a big difference between me enabling an app to use my data for the service I believe it provides and them using it for everything else.

vineyardmike 2y ago
> enabling an app to use my data for the service I believe it provides and them using it for everything else. I completely agree, but I think we need to push society away from requiring for profit products into our life, or at least recognize that they have an association cost to the user. What is the reasonable expectation of a business to profit off a product that we’ve deemed “required”? Who would make or support a product they can’t profit on? In the EU, they required Facebook to offer a no-tracking version of the product, which meta replied by making a paid tier. Then they required Facebook to not charge for their no-tracking version. So why should facebook stay in the EU if it can’t profit from providing a service? While no one will shed a tear over Meta’s business, it is a massive way for people to connect with each other. Google Maps could theoretically suffer the same fate - and free access to maps seems like a public good. YouTube is another example that can be for the public good due to its educational content. The list of products that are “free” and probably good for society is huge now thanks to effective online advertising. I don’t want us to shed a tear for billionaire-corporations profit margins, but instead address that we’ve come to rely on them and they probably won’t be altruistic about watching their profits legislated away.
- m463 2y ago
  > but I think we need to push society away from requiring for profit products into our life The following sites use google services and google analytics: irs.gov ftb.ca.gov (california state tax authority) dmv.ca.gov (california department of motor vehicles) how can you avoid these things? if money is involved, recaptcha is generally a non-blockable requirement.
- photonthug 2y ago

jhallenworld 2y ago

One consolation: it works both ways with this kind of data. For example, it can corroborate your story.

taneq 2y ago
Is there any obligation to announce exonerating data found by prosecutors during a dragnet search? I was under the impression that they could just pick something that makes you look bad and build a case on that, and that unless your defence has access to all the same data (do they?) and is equally motivated and funded, that in this case you’re probably just boned.
- jhallenworld 2y ago
  You have access to your own location data, at least if you have location history enabled. It's an interesting question if defense can request this data from google if you don't have it enabled..
- hollerith 2y ago
  There is such an obligation. In fact, just yesterday, a judge dismissed a case in the middle of a trial to punish a prosecutor for not disclosing information to the defense -- and the information had only a tenuous relevance to the case: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jul/12/a-botched-prosecution-alec-baldwins-trial-gets-shock-ending-fit-for-hollywood https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jul/12/a-bo...
  - taneq 2y ago
    Huh, good to know! Thanks.
    - hollerith 2y ago
      More info: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brady_disclosure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brady_disclosure
2y ago

steelframe 2y ago

I run GrapheneOS on my phone and have all location permissions denied for everything except for (offline) Organic Maps. I also make it a habit of keeping airplane mode enabled except on the (very) rare occasion when I need to make an outbound phone call while out of the house. With the recent revelations about the triangulated location data that AT&T left exposed for all of its customers I don't feel like this is an overreaction.

kibwen 2y ago
It's not an overreaction. The idea of everyone willingly sharing the details of their every movement with sociopathic corporations who are beholden to national security letters would have been met with ridicule 30 years ago.
- inejge 2y ago
  I don't think that actual history supports that assertion. 30 years ago, cellular networks were really taking off and people were starting to use mobile phones en masse. Always on, pinging the base stations, delivering that data to equally sociopathic and beholden carriers. The public was not up in arms. What's changed in the meantime, aside from the richness and granularity of location data, is awareness of the potential for the abuse of it all, supported by well-publicized incidents. Which is a good thing; the public is quite tolerant of invisible machinations, as long as they remain distant and abstract.
  - ramses0 2y ago
    No. The _ability_ to exploit it "en-masse" didn't exist 30 years ago. Random dell advertisement shows 16mb RAM (max 64mb), and 450mb HD. https://www.reddit.com/r/nostalgia/comments/49o9tm/dell_optiplex_magazine_advertisement_from_1994/ https://www.reddit.com/r/nostalgia/comments/49o9tm/dell_opti... Keep in mind, these are Mb, not Gb! Nowadays with a raspberry pi and a 128gb SD card you can go to town on "all location data for the last year for all American cell phones". Back in 1994, even coordinating reliable central writes of all that location data would have been extraordinarily complicated, and there was not yet a panopticon appetite that would attempt the endeavor without a heavily funded psychopath behind it. As "we the industry" have gotten more capable (and comfortable) processing huge quantities of data (eg: post map-reduce), and the hardware requirements have fallen to "my cell phone could compute it in an hour", the risk has increased tremendously. Same story with muskets, cannons and tanks vs AK-47's. "Gun Control" in the musket era is materially different than an era of AK-47's and drones. Same with data processing.

pau7l4u9 2y ago

[flagged]

BenFranklin100 2y ago

Get an iPhone. Android and iOS are equivalent, while Apple’s revenue is overwhelmingly based on hardware and services, unlike Google’s revenue which is overwhelmingly based on advertising and tracking.

titaniumtown 2y ago
I use GrapheneOS with my Pixel 7 with no issues. I won't ever buy an apple device. If the OS isn't opensource, I'm not buying it.
- biglady654 2y ago
  Have you personally compiled and set up that OS on your Pixel 7?
poisonborz 2y ago
> Android and iOS are equivalent How can you write this after using both for like 10 minutes
- BenFranklin100 2y ago
  iOS is a bit better, but honestly I think Android is just fine. I don’t see a big difference for most users.
  - poisonborz 2y ago
    HN ist not "most users". Yes they both have apps, an icon grid, a swipe down notification panel... but there are oceans of difference beyond that surface. HN is always full of new ones.
add-sub-mul-div 2y ago
Apple sells your traffic to Google for tens of billions of dollars. Of course they're not leaving the equivalent money on the table, they just hope people will be fooled by the indirection.

Sytten 2y ago

Is there an alternative to google location history that is privacy friendly? I like the feature during trips to record where I went. Maybe just me but when I get a bit nostalgic I like to retrace my steps and find again some lost memories/places.

titaniumtown 2y ago
I've personally heard of https://owntracks.org/ https://owntracks.org/ though I haven't been able to try it myself. Seems like a location history and see where other members of your instance are.
boschfish 2y ago
I have been using https://scoria.info/ https://scoria.info/. It is privacy first and offers great flexibility with how you can filter, view, and export your location data.
- bad_username 2y ago
  Importing existing Google timeline data would be useful, but doesn't look like it's supported.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
modeless 2y ago
Google Location History is privacy friendly now. It was just recently changed a month or two ago and it no longer works in the way the article describes. The history data is now stored on your phone. Cloud backups are optional and default off and always end-to-end encrypted if enabled, so your location history database is not ever accessible to any Google server. Google made this change in response to issues like the ones described in this article.
- krackers 2y ago
  >not ever accessible to any google server How can they use it for ad targeting then?

treebeard901 2y ago

Location history is really just a setting asking if you want to see your own location data. All of your location data from the E911 system through to Google Play Services and on to maps, etc is constantly being collected then sold and collated among all these companies. It is impossible on a modern cellphone to fully disable reporting of your location to any provider in the stack.

rurban 2y ago

The SensorVault warrants going back decades were already explained in a 2019 nyt times article, which is stolen here. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/04/13/us/google-location-tracking-police.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/04/13/us/google-loc... They can even solve cold cases. What is new is that users can opt-out of location tracking. They won't purge SensorVault though (location reporting).

Quarondeau 2y ago

That is definitely not true for everyone who has had their Google account for years, because back then, location data was an opt-out feature. I definitely never actively opted in, and Google never disabled the tracking to force previous tacit consenters to opt in to account for the cultural shift from opt-out to opt-in, which probably happened in the early 2010s?

sans_souse 2y ago

I wonder if that entire User Location repo will one day end up leaked..

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