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Introducing Copilot+ PCs

• Friedduck 2y ago
  Microsoft still can’t manage file and email search so I’ll remain skeptical of any and all announcements about being able to locate what’s on my PC.
• cyanydeez 2y ago
  Really seems like their play is to use their business suite to sell huge privacy invasive tools under the guise of computing improvements. This iteration of Microsoft products gonna really go for the throat.
• PDSCodes 2y ago
  It feels desperate, rushed and ill thought through. They seem desperate to be ahead and they will frighten people away from the usefulness of ai.
  • jimt1234 2y ago
    I think this describes almost all AI products being promoted these days. They all seem rushed-to-market, in an attempt to get a boost to the company's stock price: "They're an AI company! BUY!"
    • PDSCodes 2y ago
      Smells like the late 90s dot com bubble! Everyone on the bandwagon. Put out a landing page with AI on it and ride the hype train. MS are pouring a lot into this - can they sustain it!
• Havoc 2y ago
  There is a giant hole in their pitch. Recall is supposed to be local only right? Thats what makes the record everything ok… Now imagine you actively use it and it has all your memory and history. And then your SSD dies. They’re going to have to push this to cloud for backup - the entire thing. But they can’t say that part out loud at this stage because people will freak
  • eightysixfour 2y ago
    Or you could just lose that history, which is basically a bonus for the experience, not a necessity. The competitor to this, rewind.ai lets you set your retention policy and deletes on a rolling basis anyways.
    • Havoc 2y ago
      If you want this to be the new computer use paradigm then it has to be durable and long term. Same as any other info storage like Evernote and friends. Doesn’t really work if it’s flakey or impermanent
      • eightysixfour 2y ago
        The value of the data shrinks dramatically over time for this kind of data, I have been using rewind for around a year now and don’t think I have ever liked back past three months.
        • Havoc 2y ago
          You’re probably right about declining value over time. Is that for personal use thoug? At work I’m routinely going through year+ old mails.
          • eightysixfour 2y ago
            Yes, but that isn’t what I really use it for. An example recent use was to pull up a recording of a conversation I had on zoom to see a detail on one of the slides I couldn’t remember. Prior to that it was searching for a specific set of words I knew I had seen in a proprietary dataset (think Ipsos/Gartner) that their own search wasn’t finding. I generally don’t need/recall those kinds of details after a certain time and will accept those losses.
  • creatonez 2y ago
    > They’re going to have to push this to cloud for backup - the entire thing. But they can’t say that part out loud at this stage because people will freak This doesn't mean unencrypted, though. Will have to wait and see how much it exposes and how the key management works. I'm not optimistic but it does seem rather unlikely they would botch the privacy of a constantly screenshotting daemon, it would be a little on-the-nose even with MS's horrendous privacy record.
• skenderbeu 2y ago
  Zune inspired?
• theshrike79 2y ago
  But is it a normal Windows PC that supports normal Windows software or the weird abomination they had last time that supported a few specific apps and nothing else?
  • goosedragons 2y ago
    It's normal Windows, just on ARM. Windows on ARM already supports x32 and x64 emulation. Pretty much the only stuff that doesn't work is hardware drivers (to be expected) and games with kernel level anti-cheat (also expected). They've also announced a new 20% faster x64 emulation layer. Recently there's been a big push of apps getting native ARM ports too, Chrome for example.
    • TiredOfLife 2y ago
      The Chrome one was interesting as Chromium and as conequence VSCode and Edge had arm versions for years
  • TiredOfLife 2y ago
    For the last 5 years starting with Windows 10 (Snapdragon 835 based devices) you could run any x86 software (that doesn't require driver/drm rootkit) and 64bit emulation was added with Windows 11 (when intel patents ended). Sometimes it feels like the commenters on HN are being kept in suspended animation for 10 years then revived for a couple of days to comment then put back to sleep.
• thesuitonym 2y ago
  Again?
  • Rebelgecko 2y ago
    This time it has AI in it
    • bithavoc 2y ago
      It's Windows 8 AI Edition
    • sockaddr 2y ago
      AI is now that crusty squirt bottle full of mystery beige sauce they squirt all over everything at the food truck. Yum. Just drench my whole OS in this.
  • jsheard 2y ago
    Yeah I was going to say. The very first Surfaces in 2012-2013 were ARM-based (using Nvidia Tegra), then they switched to Intel, then they tried ARM again in 2019-2020 (using Qcom Snapdragon) then went back to Intel again. Third times the charm? At the very least they seem to have decent x86 emulation performance this time.
    • baybal2 2y ago
      [dead]
    • TiredOfLife 2y ago
      The last consumer Surface tablet before this was Surface Pro 9 with ARM and it came out less than 2 years ago.
• hehdhdjehehegwv 2y ago
  Wow, I’m continually floored by how bad Intel shit the bed. I remember not too long ago the only computer you would see is a “wintel” with a few esoteric graphic designers in Mac. I guess it’s now “warm”?
  • coliveira 2y ago
    And Apple was forced to move the Mac to X64. Intel was completely dominant 15 years ago.
    • hehdhdjehehegwv 2y ago
      Not only that, it probably saved Apple!
      • DamnYuppie 2y ago
        The iPod saved Apple, the iPhone made it the powerhouse it is now. Everything else seems like marginal impact. The new chip is nice and helps them have more control over and lower prices but as of yet doesn't seem to be an immediate game changer.
        • hehdhdjehehegwv 2y ago
          Disagree, the power series Mac’s were in the verge of not being able to run photoshop on par with windows. The last core group to keep the Mac alive was designers. If Apple had stuck with power series they wouldn’t have survived.
  • Dalewyn 2y ago
    Intel (and AMD) are also going to be part of this line of computers: >We look forward to expanding through deep partnerships with Intel and AMD, starting with Lunar Lake and Strix. We will bring new Copilot+ PC experiences at a later date. I'm not blaming Microsoft for skipping Meteor Lake, it's been an awkward generation to say the least. Of course, if Lunar Lake sees delays then Intel really has shat the mattress.
• jacobgorm 2y ago
  I hope the Snapdragon D3D12 drivers come with actually working H265 video support, unlike on AMD where this is broken and no one seems to bother to fix it.
• dr_ 2y ago
  If they're true to the demo, the new Surface devices look impressive, with the Surface Pro clearly pushing in the direction that most have wanted the iPad Pro to go for some time. Microsoft has clearly been baking AI into their laptops and the updated Windows 11. Will be interesting to see what Apple has up their sleeves next month.
• rychco 2y ago
  > Microsoft calls the new Laptop a “Copilot Plus PC” I'd rather have a reliable ARM device, sans Copilot - which MS hasn't proved they're capable of yet. > Whether these computers can match or outdo Apple’s custom silicon remains to be seen I would be shocked if this were ever the case.
• srameshc 2y ago
  Big news here is Qualcomm’s Snapdragon is now for PCs.
• RobotToaster 2y ago
  Could be good if any software can use it for other offline models like stable diffusion.
  • rcarmo 2y ago
    They literally demoed a Stable Diffusion equivalent with ControlNet-style guided drawing.
• Animats 2y ago
  Will this run locally, or is part of the work outsourced? With "Recall", can law enforcement ask your laptop "Has your user done anything suspicious lately"?
  • Hamuko 2y ago
    Can I call an AI expert as my witness to explain what "hallucination" is?
  • soapdog 2y ago
    Coverage on Windows Central says it is all local. As for the law enforcement question, it doesn't matter. If they want to get info from your computer, they will and they don't need AI to help.
    • mlindner 2y ago
      > As for the law enforcement question, it doesn't matter. If they want to get info from your computer, they will and they don't need AI to help. This is a poor take. Law enforcement needs a warrant to seize your computer to get your data normally. Law enforcement only needs a compliant and willing corporate person to willingly give over your data to law enforcement. It's about who owns it and where is it located and the protections around it.
      • croes 2y ago
        Getting a warrant isn't that hard either.
        • milkshakes 2y ago
          getting a warrant requires probable cause, and a judge to approve it. maybe that's not hard, maybe it is, but i'd personally prefer more steps being required to access what data i have.
          • bitwize 2y ago
• delusional 2y ago
  The AI is the least interesting part of this announcement. Microsoft is giving ARM another try with a special branding that's supposed to guarantee some level of performance and quality. That's possibly huge news.
  • jsheard 2y ago
    It's also notable that Qualcomm is officially upstreaming kernel support for the Snapdragon Elite platform that Microsoft is pushing, so those systems may actually not suck at running Linux.
    • user_7832 2y ago
      In the past a few Snapdragon 8 Gen x chip dev kits have had Linux support if I recall correctly. I'd love to have built a device out of them but they seem quite expensive unfortunately for consumers ($800-1000, often from grey market sources). It's nonetheless good to see Linux support.
      • akr4s1a 2y ago
        Snapdragon 8cx Gen 3 chip laptops are only just getting there. Last time I tried to daily it maybe 6 months ago, they didn't even have hardware rendering on the GPU, everything was rendered on the CPU. Ubuntu and Armbian have custom images for the x13s, no idea about the Volterra but it's much worse than the windows on ARM experience for that laptop and that's saying something.
        • user_7832 2y ago
          That's disappointing :(
    • jwells89 2y ago
      Yeah, “ARM-based Linux laptop with 22h battery life” is much more interesting to me than “Windows 11 ARM-based AI PC”. If the TPU can eventually be utilized by open models under Linux that’s just a cherry on top.
• candiddevmike 2y ago
  Is Microsoft Copilot and GitHub Copilot the same thing?
  • delusional 2y ago
    No. Microsoft aren't even clear with their own copilot branding in the core MS products. In MS-land, anything to do with AI is just labeled Copilot right now.
  • Handy-Man 2y ago
    Copilot is Microsoft's branding for all things AI for their products.
    • adastra22 2y ago
      Except when it is actually Copilot, in which case they call it "Github Copilot."
  • deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  • yett 2y ago
    No. It's more like ChatGPT
  • RedShift1 2y ago
    Yesn't, just like Teams and Teams are the same thing.
    • andyp-kw 2y ago
      Teams, Teams and Skype.
      • bitwize 2y ago
        Don't forget .NET, which simultaneously referred to an abstract machine runtime, an SOA strategy involving SOAP and XML, rebranded versions of Microsoft services intended to align with this strategy, and even Microsoft's centralized authentication service (called .NET Passport at first). It wasn't until later years that Microsoft associated the brand more or less strictly with the runtime. Not to pick too much on Microsoft, Sun had previously done the same thing with Java, sticking Java stickers on anything and everything they could get away with. Arguably, it worked: Java was the buzz of the industry in the late nineties and table stakes for greenfield enterprise development in the early 2000s -- unless you were using .NET.
• mlindner 2y ago
  My only question is how much of the models is being run offline and how much is the computer just siphoning up all the actions you do and feeding it into the cloud. Microsoft has a very bad history with user privacy, especially lately.
• jmclnx 2y ago
  Well I know which model to avoid should I need to pick up new hardware. But to be honest, more then likely I would pick up an old Thinkpad.
• skilled 2y ago
  There is an official link now so hopefully it can be changed as it has more clear details, https://blogs.microsoft.com/blog/2024/05/20/introducing-copilot-pcs/ https://blogs.microsoft.com/blog/2024/05/20/introducing-copi...
  • dang 2y ago
    Changed now from https://www.theverge.com/2024/5/20/24160486/microsoft-copilot-plus-ai-arm-chips-pc-surface-event https://www.theverge.com/2024/5/20/24160486/microsoft-copilo.... Thanks!
• sturza 2y ago
  Microsoft's Strategy and Products: Microsoft is shifting away from Intel chips, favoring Qualcomm's latest Snapdragon X Elite processors. The new Qualcomm chips boast better performance, power efficiency, and battery life, aiming to compete with Apple Silicon. Microsoft is launching Copilot Plus PCs, featuring built-in AI hardware for enhanced performance. Surface AI Announcements: Major updates to the Surface lineup. Introduction of a new era of AI-driven PCs. Asus Vivobook S 15 (S5507): Powered by Qualcomm's Snapdragon X-series processors. Features 45 TOPS of neural processing power for AI-driven programs. Thinner chassis and display bezels compared to previous models. DaVinci Resolve AI Features: Uses Copilot Plus PCs’ neural processing unit for AI color corrections. CPU and GPU offload tasks to the NPU. Acer Swift 14 AI: Powered by Qualcomm Snapdragon processors. Supports new AI features in Windows 11. Configurable with up to 32GB of memory and 1TB of SSD storage. HP Laptop Lineup: Streamlining of product lines to OmniBook (consumer-focused), EliteBook, and ProBook (corporate-oriented). Dell Qualcomm Laptops: Announcing five Qualcomm Snapdragon laptops, including XPS 13 (9345), Inspiron 14, and Latitude models. Offers multiple display options and up to 64GB of memory. Lenovo Laptops: Introducing Yoga Slim 7x 14 Gen 9 and a new ThinkPad with Snapdragon processors. Features include up to 32GB of memory, 1TB SSD storage, and a 14.5-inch OLED touch display. Adobe Creative Cloud on Arm64: Full Creative Cloud suite available for new Copilot Plus laptops. Native Arm64 versions of Photoshop, Lightroom, Firefly, and Express. Microsoft Real-time Translation: New translation feature available across any video calling or entertainment app. Demonstrated real-time translation capabilities. New Surface Pro: First Surface Pro with an OLED display. Capable of producing perfect blacks and HDR output. Powered by Qualcomm Snapdragon X processors, up to 90% faster than previous models. Surface Laptop: Arm-based Surface Laptop with Qualcomm’s Snapdragon X Elite or Plus chip. Configurable with up to 64GB of RAM and 1TB SSD storage. Available in multiple colors. Copilot Plus PCs: New branding highlighting built-in AI hardware and support for AI features across Windows. Supported by major laptop manufacturers including Dell, Lenovo, Samsung, HP, Acer, and Asus. Copilot Assistant: Upgraded to GPT-4o. Demonstrated guiding a player through Minecraft using GPT-4o for real-time interaction. Recall Tool: AI-powered tool that logs and retrieves everything you see and do on your PC. Can track activities in apps, meetings, and web research. Opera Browser for Windows on Arm: Native version for Snapdragon-powered Windows devices. Promises over double the speeds of emulated versions. Dell's Future XPS Plans: Confidential document leak reveals detailed specs and future plans for XPS 13 variants. Includes multiple display options and Snapdragon X Elite chips. Qualcomm Snapdragon X Plus Processor: Entry-level laptop chip with 10 cores and 45 TOPS NPU for AI applications. Competes with Apple, Intel, and AMD on speed.
• chucke1992 2y ago
  Actually the event was pretty cool. Would be neat if everything works as stated.
• ffhhj 2y ago
  And Microsoft sends all that info to their servers for better telemetry right?
• NotYourLawyer 2y ago
  Everything Microsoft does to Windows these days just makes me want Apple hardware.
• brcmthrowaway 2y ago
  M$ giving Apple a run for its money.
• arrty88 2y ago
  Do these qcom powered ARM systems have better battery life for laptops versus intel?
• LogHouse 2y ago
  I know HN has a large Apple following but as a Windows lover (yah yah, I know), I am very excited about these announcements!
  • adastra22 2y ago
    I recently got back into the Windows ecosystem, and I gotta say it's pretty nice. I'm excited too!
• aquir 2y ago
  The only issue is that these all run Windows…bloated, annoying, privacy intrusive in-your-face OS
  • binkethy 2y ago
    That is true. I do not use windows anymore. None of my servers ever ran windows. One can only pretend that closed source operating systems ate acceptable for so long before one has to address the lack of configurability, in a deep sense. I found it odd that your comment was greyed out. I find this disturbing, to be frank.
  • resource_waste 2y ago
    I cannot imagine building on Microsoft in 2024. They have aggressively thrown their weight around doing anti-consumer moves. These are the warning signs they don't need to care about their customers and can fully exploit their market monopoly. I still have ads after an update in windows 11 pro. Not to mention I have file explorer bugs and one note path hijacking annoyances. Legacy software is why we still use windows. There is nothing better about windows than say, Fedora.
    • wilsonnb3 2y ago
      > Legacy software is why we still use windows. There is nothing better about windows than say, Fedora. Except, of course, the legacy software support.
      • NotYourLawyer 2y ago
        And hardware support.
        • eviks 2y ago
          And some non-legacy software. Otherwise it's worse.
    • whalesalad 2y ago
• binkethy 2y ago
  I suspect that there will be a LOT of TPU e-waste in about 3-5 years. One can call me reactionary, but I see a greater benefit in providing SIMD primitives for known bottlenecks, co-processing for known inner loops, than to continually jump through the hoop of committing passing trends to hardware. I suspect thst Microsoft will implement brilliantly on a bad idea, but that it still won't gain much traction, as Co-pilot is not the code assistant we need. But since hammers are in fashion, expect attempts to shoehorn the world into nails.
  • jeroenhd 2y ago
    If vendors will go for strictly on-die TPUs, then maybe. However, I expect these machines to be quite capable without the AI hype. I hope ar least some laptop vendors will use PCIe cards for their TPUs so that there's an upgrade path of sorts, and reusing older cards for simpler models remains possible.
  • deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  • stanleykm 2y ago
    LLMs aside I would guess we may see more modest use cases for TPU/NPUs on PC. Phones have been coming with them for several years now - granted with stronger use cases around AR, photo retouching, and voice assistants. Maybe you are right though.
• tk90 2y ago
  The "Recall" part is interesting - I wonder if they're running RAG locally to achieve that? Interested to see how it works under the hood...
  • amai 2y ago
    I also would be interested about this. Because I somehow expect that this screen logging feature is ripe for a security disaster. This is not just your browser history. Imagine a video of everything you ever did on your PC ending up in the internet.
    • walterbell 2y ago
      RaaS (RAT-as-a-Service).
• andyp-kw 2y ago
  I can't remember seeing Qualcomm CPU's before. The name makes me think of WiFi cards. With Intel stock taking a dive recently, I can't help but feel that the processor landscape is changing.
  • adastra22 2y ago
    Qualcomm makes the CPUs in most android devices, as well as VR/AR (e.g. Meta's Quest line). Qualcomm probably makes more CPUs (and GPUs) than any other vendor. https://www.pcgamesn.com/intel/qualcomm-snapdragon-x-elite-benchmarks https://www.pcgamesn.com/intel/qualcomm-snapdragon-x-elite-b...
  • re-thc 2y ago
    This is Nuvia, whom Qualcomm acquired earlier. They came from Apple before that.
  • TiredOfLife 2y ago
    They have been making cpus for windows for 11+ years
• roschdal 2y ago
  What do we need it for?
• 999900000999 2y ago
  1300$ for the 16GB Asus laptop. That's actually not bad, I'm gonna toss a 4TB M2 in one of these. I doubt it'll actually clear 18 hours of battery life, but I'd be happy with 10.
• deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
• Eldar_ 2y ago
  That’s a bubble
  • MangoCoffee 2y ago
    "AI PC", it's a new buzz in Computex 2024 event.
• DeathArrow 2y ago
  I bet Intel is not happy.
  • MangoCoffee 2y ago
    Why? It runs on Intel/AMD's NPU. it's the new buzz "AI" PC in Copmputex 2024 CNBC talking about AI PC: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEoStisYAVo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEoStisYAVo
• r1chardnl 2y ago
  Is this is it or did they already lock down "their" hardware so you wouldn't be able to install alongside or solely another operating system? It seems that it's something we shouldn't take for granted as of now that the separation of OS and hardware allows you to install Linux or any other homebrew operating system on "your" computer.
• phkahler 2y ago
  To really be an AI PC, I'd want to be able to run something like llama 3 70B locally, and that's going to need a lot of RAM. Even running a 7B will take 14GB if it's fp16. So these really just need to be able to run a few MS AI apps. A quick googling tells me things like the Gen-AI in photoshop is actually done in the cloud, so that should still work but doesn't really require a special "AI PC".
  • coder543 2y ago
    No, 7B LLMs only need about 4GB of RAM. There is extremely little quality loss from dropping to 4-bit for LLMs, and that “extremely little” becomes “virtually unmeasurable” loss when going to 8-bit. No one should be running these models on local devices at fp16 outside of research, since fp16 makes them half as fast as q8_0 and requires twice as much RAM for no benefit. If a model is inadequate for a task at 4-bit, then there's virtually no chance it's going to be adequate at fp16. Microsoft has also been doing a lot of research into smaller models with the Phi series, and I would be surprised if Phi3 (or a hypothetical Phi4) doesn’t show up at some point under the hood.
    • Tankenstein 2y ago
      The original commenter mentioned 70B, not 7B.
      • coder543 2y ago
        I had already read the comment I was responding to, and they actually mentioned both. Here's the exact quote for the 7B: "Even running a 7B will take 14GB if it's fp16." Since they called out a specific amount of memory that is entirely irrelevant to anyone actually running 7B models, I was responding to that. I'm certain that no one at Microsoft is talking about running 70B models on consumer devices. 7B models are actually a practical consideration for the hardware that exists today.
        • Tankenstein 2y ago
          Makes sense, your argument is clear now, my mistake.
• Pesthuf 2y ago
  [flagged]
  • deleted 2y ago
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• drevil-v2 2y ago
  Being the designated "tech" person for my extended family and friends circle, I don't think I could recommend this to any of them because of the privacy nightmare. At least with Apple you have a single vendor who is vertically integrated and makes a huge song and dance about data privacy. Even if you discount their PR and marketing spin, IMHO you are still miles ahead of the likes of Microsoft + (pick one) HP, Asus, Lenovo and the rest of them. There is no way I would trust any of them not to take advantage of the data gold mine.
  • lolinder 2y ago
    Are they actually collecting new data to enable these features? Or is all of this data collected no matter what version of Windows you have installed? It seems to me that what you just said is an argument against Windows in general, not against these new features.
    • onemoresoop 2y ago
      It's probably easier for MS to just collect that no matter what so I doubt they'd stop themselves from doing it.
  • resource_waste 2y ago
    >At least with Apple > Even if you discount their PR and marketing spin, It doesnt seem like you were able to do that.
  • rogerthis 2y ago
    As it has been said so many times, tech privacy aware people are the minority. It won't make any difference for my non-tech neighbor (in fact, he will probably be delighted if it helps him with something).
    • grugagag 2y ago
      Not if you tell them beware, all this will be used against you in some way in the future.
• haunter 2y ago
  Apple will do this in ~3 years or so and everyone will call it the biggest leap (“visionary”) in the history of computers
  • jazzyjackson 2y ago
    they've been doing it already since the M1... on device OCR and photoshop filters using onboard NPU cores
• jamesdepp 2y ago
  I am honestly not excited about the "AI" tech here--I'm excited about the battery life improvements that will come from using ARM chips. Battery life was the reason I chose an M1 laptop over the alternatives. Hopefully we can get some more competition in the space with these new chips!
• sys_64738 2y ago
  Are they secure boot locked or can we crowbar Linux aarch64 onto them?
• sylens 2y ago
  Looking at the landing page for the new Surface devices (https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/surface https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/surface) the top third of the page looks really amateurish in terms of web design. Clicking one of the "Meet the new" buttons really drives it home.
  • deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  • jamesdepp 2y ago
    Looks like they're relying on system fonts instead of serving them over the web. It uses Segoe UI (a Windows font) by default. I tried accessing the page via Fedora and iOS and neither load the font correctly.
    • Dalewyn 2y ago
      >Looks like they're relying on system fonts instead of serving them over the web. This is a good thing. Using system fonts means less bandwidth consumed, more privacy (presumably), faster rendering, and better consistency with the rest of the user's environment. The only failure could be not serving a web font as a failsafe, but I'm not going to count that against them because I hate the idea of web fonts. Edit: Actually, nevermind all that. Microsoft is serving Segoe UI as a web font in addition to referring to the system copy.[1] If that's not rendering properly, either Microsoft got the URL wrong or something is fubar on the browsers concerned. [1]: https://blogs.microsoft.com/wp-content/themes/ms-blogs/style.min.css?ver=1.3.10 https://blogs.microsoft.com/wp-content/themes/ms-blogs/style...
• f6v 2y ago
  The thing is that everything I need just works on my ARM Mac and it’s been so for couple years already. Yet I keep hearing that “MS is committing to ARM”. Don’t get me wrong, I’d love myself a Surface that’s super fast, responsive, has many app and good battery life. But I just can’t get myself to buy one whenever I try it in the store. So MBP+iPad it is, year after year.
• dvt 2y ago
  It's clear that AI can be the catalyst for creating a lot of customer-facing value. (Though I still contend that the current incarnation of large language models ain't it yet.) Requiring a powerful (and power-hungry) GPU in all devices is non-tenable, so having a dedicated NPU is a pretty sleek way forward (that, to be fair, Apple spearheaded). I'm very curious to see what APIs will be open to developers, because I think "next billion-dollar startup"-style value-generation won't be found in the generative aspect of these models, but rather the promise of automation, synthesis, summarization, agent invocation, and so on.
  • wayeq 2y ago
    > It's clear that AI can be the catalyst for creating a lot of customer-facing value. It clearly will be a catalyst for creating a lot of shareholder value... I'm less sure about the customer facing value of a lot of these products.
    • dvt 2y ago
      > I'm less sure about the customer facing value of a lot of these products. I agree, but mostly due to the fact that there are no "products" yet.
• deleted 2y ago
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• DeathArrow 2y ago
  People even coined a term for Microsoft-Intel symbiosis: Wintel. Most often Windows meant Intel and Intel meant Windows. I wonder how this will fare for the future of x86. Maybe Intel will focus on the server market.
• adastra22 2y ago
  Minimum RAM requirements of 16GB. Hopefully this will force Apple to move from 8GB/16GB consumer models to 16GB/32GB.
  • resource_waste 2y ago
    Different consumer base. Enterprise/high end use vs front end or SSH. I don't see why you'd ever need more than 4-8GB for a Macbook.
    • adastra22 2y ago
      Base macOS uses more than 4GB, or close to it, on a fresh install right after booting. 8GB really is a minimum for macOS. But tons of consumers use their computers in ways that require more resident pages in memory, like having hundreds of open tabs in Chrome or Safari. 8GB is getting really constricting even for casual use.
• josefresco 2y ago
  Are these suitable gaming laptops? I run local LLMs (Ollama) using my NVIDIA graphics card but I can't tell if these ARM chips are suitable for gaming.
  • Dalewyn 2y ago
    I hope you realize that most of the gaming world runs on ARM CPUs and iGPUs today. Smartphones and tablets far outnumber gaming PCs.
    • bibanez 2y ago
      I intuit parent was referring to PC gaming, which is far more demanding than mobile gaming. Also, most PC games are compiled to x86_64, which means there will need to be a virtualization layer for non-native games (the majority), which will add latency.
    • tredre3 2y ago
      You're made that same comment several times in this thread. But: - All gaming PCs are x86 - PS5 and Xbox are x86 - Handheld PCs (Steam Deck, Legion, etc) are x86 This is the market people are talking about when they say "gaming" and you know it.
      • Dalewyn 2y ago
        Just because most gamers game on mobile and consoles do not make them any less of gamers. PC gamers are a minority, not the majority; PC Master Race is a meme and not reality. If anyone wants to refer to PC gamers, refer as such. "Gamers" with no additional descriptors by definition is anyone who games, and that includes gamers who play on mobile and consoles.
      • TiredOfLife 2y ago
        Arm based Nintendo switch has sold more than PS5 an xbox Series combined
  • TiredOfLife 2y ago
• glutamate 2y ago
  > The new Flex Keyboard, which costs $450 and comes with a Slim Pen... [0] At that price, I would expect a Generously Voluminous Pen and a whole lot more... [0] https://www.theverge.com/2024/5/20/24160707/microsoft-surface-pro-price-release-date-ai https://www.theverge.com/2024/5/20/24160707/microsoft-surfac...
  • deergomoo 2y ago
    They have surely just looked at the price of an iPad Magic Keyboard + Apple Pencil and thought, “yeah we can probably get away with that too”. Not sure how well that will go given that even the most ardent Apple fans will concede that a keyboard case costing approximately the same as one whole entry-level iPad is a bit much.
• chickenWing 2y ago
  The real danger of AI is it will annoy us all to death as companies keep jamming it into everything.
• golergka 2y ago
  How much ads would I expect on this out of the box? A banner in the start menu, ad notifications, what else?
  • askonomm 2y ago
    I heard that they are even experimenting with full-screen ads!
• isoprophlex 2y ago
  Their "copilot" brand is so weird and... muddled. There's the AI code assistant thing that github actually started, there's the horrible chatbot maker GUI demoware, there's AI stuff you might be able to do with your sharepoint (if only you could get hold of the right ms sales rep to take your money), there's an app that does genai things on your personal MS account... And now there's a Surface rebrand? That org chart meme about Microsoft being little fiefdoms pointing guns at eachother never stops being relevant. [1] https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-copilot/microsoft-copilot-studio https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-copilot/microsoft-... [2] https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-365/blog/2023/05/02/welcome-to-the-new-era-of-sharepoint-and-onedrive-in-microsoft-365/ https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-365/blog/2023/05/0... [3] https://copilot.microsoft.com/ https://copilot.microsoft.com/ And [4] the meme itself, as you really can't convince me the above is the result of a coherent company-wide strategy https://i.insider.com/51dfec8469bedd5e19000017 https://i.insider.com/51dfec8469bedd5e19000017
  • wizzwizz4 2y ago
    The original [4]: https://goomics.net/62/ https://goomics.net/62/ (and its sequel: https://goomics.net/329/ https://goomics.net/329/).
    • isoprophlex 2y ago
      That sequel is (also) just wonderfully accurate!
    • dweinus 2y ago
      100% accurate. Impressive
    • biglyburrito 2y ago
      Never heard of this comic before... thank you for sharing!
  • chatmasta 2y ago
    Their first co-pilot (which still exists) was about pairing a second Xbox controller to your console.
• tempaccount420 2y ago
  40 TOPS is not that impressive, an iPhone 15 Pro has 35 TOPS.
  • callalex 2y ago
    These kind of stats really need a “for 30s” and “for 10m” qualifiers. I strongly suspect that an iPhone will start throttling within seconds of not minutes compared to a laptop with a fan. (Although there are definitely laptops with fans that still throttle within minutes, and they usually have a fruit on the side of them.)
  • layer8 2y ago
    “TOPS” isn’t a standardized measure, you can’t compare them like that.
• MangoCoffee 2y ago
  Its a new buzz "AI PC". Company like Intel is happy that this is happening, it run on NPU from Intel/AMD. This AI PC buzz is supposed to help sell more x86/Windows.
• gjsman-1000 2y ago
  Oh joy, Pluton is back.
  • gigel82 2y ago
    What do you mean back? Pluton has been shipping in all mainstream CPUs for at least 1 year.
• deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
• beretguy 2y ago
  I hope gaming on Linux keeps getting better. I don’t see myself using anything beyond windows 10.
  • __loam 2y ago
    Same. Our household has one pc from 2019 running windows, 3 on Linux, and one Mac, plus two macs from work. The only thing keeping me on windows is league of legends and stone art programs and I might get a mac to do that.
    • branon 2y ago
      League runs on Linux easy, all you need is patched Wine: https://github.com/GloriousEggroll/wine-ge-custom/releases/tag/GE-Proton8-27-LoL https://github.com/GloriousEggroll/wine-ge-custom/releases/t... It's easiest to use this via software like Lutris or Bottles.
      • notJim 2y ago
        > X runs on Linux easy, all you need is patched Y Glad to hear some things never change
      • paranoidxprod 2y ago
        I don't believe there is a workaround for Vanguard (Riot's kernel level anti-cheat) meaning there's nothing you can do on Linux. See https://lutris.net/games/league-of-legends/ https://lutris.net/games/league-of-legends/
      • __loam 2y ago
        Yeah sorry not trying to get banned. I'll just get a mac.
    • freedomben 2y ago
      We've been linux-only now for quite a few years, and I've been really pleased with how much we can get done without Windows (or Mac). All the Windows only games we play work great on Proton (disclaimer: we don't do any games with anti-cheat though). The only thing that I still must have Windows for is a Cricut machine that my wife has. I've got it working in a KVM VM though with USB pass through.
• cjk2 2y ago
  If the following does not happen in 2 years I will eat my hat: They will have performance problems. They will have compatibility problems. They will have poor repairability and zero repair network and support. The software will be abandoned and completely useless within 18 months. They will fail very early but just outside a standard 1 year warranty. This will be a lot of e-waste. Regulatory or national bodies will step in and force privacy regulations which make all of this unworkable.
  • gigel82 2y ago
    Wait, are you the other guy that bought a Windows Surface RT? :) We should make a club.
    • cjk2 2y ago
      Um, err, yeah :(
    • tomcam 2y ago
      I’m in lol
    • nyanpasu64 2y ago
      I'd join, but Metro Internet Explorer crashes whenever I try to message, and the tablet battery won't last me the trip to the club...
  • genewitch 2y ago
    If in 18 months anyone feels that their ARM laptop isn't cutting it, i'll gladly pay $0.15/$1.00 for them. I know lots of people who could definitely benefit from a laptop that cannot afford them, and IME ARM runs linux just fine.
    • cjk2 2y ago
      I suspect they will be locked down like the RT devices were...
• joshstrange 2y ago
  There are a number of aspect of this I find very interesting if only so that Apple has to come up with an answer to them (which I'm sure we will see some of at WWDC) but the "Copilot" brand is clear as mud... It's like that period they added ".NET" to bunch of things but way worse.
• jarjoura 2y ago
  The coordinated launch of real ARM laptops across 4 different companies, Dell, Lenovo, HP and Samsung is quite an achievement for Microsoft after a decade of failed ARM launches. This seems uniquely different to me because, there is a real and marketable limitation to what you can find in Intel/AMD (the lack of NPU). Before Microsoft pushed ARM as an option for "all day battery power" however, the huuuuuge tradeoff was compatibility with your existing tools and very underwhelming performance. However, can I just complain for a moment?! Why are these laptops shipping with fixed options at exactly 1TB of storage and only 16 GB of memory with no way to specify different configurations? So with all this cross-company coordination and opportunity for eyeballs on this renewed ARM push, they still felt the timid 16 GB would be more than enough to generate excitement? Yes, yes, I know, it's fine for a generic office product, but am I the only one who is thinking this is a red flag, and this is going to be just another failed launch and huge missed opportunity at wider ARM adoption?
  • winwang 2y ago
    Does AMD lack NPUs on mobile still? It should be coming quite soon, apparently 40 TOPs.
    • wmf 2y ago
      Ryzen 7000 had a slow (not Windows-certified) NPU and Ryzen 8000 has a full-speed NPU.
  • danybittel 2y ago
    Both Intel's and AMD's newer chips have NPUs as well. They are also better in the power consumption area, not as good as arm though. I don't see a reason they can get there as well, the actual instruction set does not matter much for power consumption. The MS announcement also talks about Intel/AMD favors of their "Copilot+ PCs"
• Gant1 2y ago
  "Connected to and enhanced by the large language models (LLMs) running in our Azure Cloud in concert with small language models (SLMs)..." Remember Scroogled? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-y2mqoDjQXI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-y2mqoDjQXI
• OnionBlender 2y ago
  > "Easily find and remember what you have seen in your PC with Recall" I can't even get Windows File Explorer to reliably search for a file by name. It frequently freezes or shows no results.
  • Findecanor 2y ago
    You're lucky to get that far. I got a tablet with 32-bit Windows 10, which doesn't get updates any more. When I tap the search box, the on-screen keyboard appears ... and then immediately closes again.
  • TiredOfLife 2y ago
    Exactly my experience using Steam Deck desktop mode
    • mpeg 2y ago
      I'm curious, why install windows on the deck?
      • TiredOfLife 2y ago
        I mean in KDE. Using Dolphin.
        • Joe_Cool 2y ago
          I think Valve disable baloo (understandable since you don't want file indexing while gaming). That's probably why the default KDE search will perform poorly. You should be able to use KFind which will work kind of like the Windows XP search.
          • TiredOfLife 2y ago
            Thanks. While looking up KFind I found FSearch. That's almost VoidTools Everything.
  • 2y ago
• nenadg 2y ago
  <spoiler> productivity goes 1000+% wages not so much </spoiler>
• JaneLovesDotNet 2y ago
  There's a little mention that's easy to miss: > With a powerful new emulator, Prism, your apps run great, whether native or emulated. Curious to hear more about what strides they've made there. UPDATE: Found more details here -> https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/05/microsoft-says-prism-translation-layer-does-for-arm-pcs-what-rosetta-did-for-macs/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/05/microsoft-says-prism... 10-20% faster emulation
  • genewitch 2y ago
    I ran windows under qemu, with a GPU, and a dedicated soundcard, and multi-monitor for years - even though ostensibly there was a 10-15% "overhead" due to emulation/virtualization. I had exactly zero issues, and to be quite frank i couldn't tell any difference in framerates, especially compared to my windows laptop running the same games with roughly equivalent GPUs.
    • user_7832 2y ago
      Could you share a little more about your setup? I assume a linux host, and perhaps 2 GPUs with one per OS? I'm guessing it's a desktop build and not a laptop (iGPU+dGPU)? I've really wanted to switch fully to linux, but I still use some "power" features in MS Office which apparently don't play nice on linux. Dualbooting Fedora is decent... when I can understand what's happening and don't need to go 4 layers deep every time I have a problem, unfortunately.
      • genewitch 2y ago
        ryzen 3700 64GB(total), gentoo on NVME, nvidia 1060; windows on another NVME as a qcow (or whatever), nvidia 1070ti, 8 physical cores no HT, 32-48GB RAM. you have to disable the specific GPU you want to use for another OS in the kernel command line - this means you need two different spec/brand GPUs, probably. There were some tweaks that i could probably dig out eventually, but most of what i used to troubleshoot were the archlinux wiki and forum posts pointing to blogs. However if you're just needing Office, just installing windows in qemu on literally any GPU will probably be just fine! you can rsync the qcow to back up the entire windows OS. for me to run games and audio software in windows my command line was: qemu-system-x86_64 -enable-kvm -m 1024 -cpu host,kvm=off -smp 4,sockets=1,cores=4,threads=1 -device virtio-scsi-pci,id=scsi -device vfio-pci,host=0d:00.0,x-vga=on -device vfio-pci,host=0d:00.1 -drive if=pflash,format=raw,readonly,file=/mnt/m2bay/ovmf/OVMF_CODE.fd -drive if=pflash,format=raw,file=/mnt/m2bay/ovmf/OVMF_VARS.fd -drive file=/mnt/m2bay/windows10-01.img,id=disk,format=raw,if=none -device scsi-hd,drive=disk -drive file=/mnt/synology/iso/Windows_10-32_64_pro_home.iso,id=isocd,if=none -device scsi-cd,drive=isocd -drive file=/mnt/synology/iso/virtio-win/virtio-win-0.1.171.iso,id=virtiocd,if=none -device ide-cd,bus=ide.1,drive=virtiocd -usb -device usb-host,hostbus=1,vendorid=0x046d,productid=0xc31c -device usb-host,hostbus=5,vendorid=0x1a2c,productid=0x0042 -soundhw hda -vga none -object input-linux,id=kbd,evdev=/dev/input/by-id/usb-Logitech_USB_Receiver-event-kbd,grab_all=y -object input-linux,id=mouse,evdev=/dev/input/by-id/usb-Logitech_USB_Receiver-if01-event-mouse you press both ctrl buttons to switch back and forth between host and guest, windows gets its own ip. Running office wouldn't require >60% of that stuff i should note that command line is probably from the first time i got it working, i'd have to boot that machine to get the latest version
• llsf 2y ago
  I cannot wait to see Apple's response. While Microsoft announcement seems rush and products half backed/thought, there are on to something. I would hope Apple would learn from it, and find the right path. I would really like to have a AI companion that runs locally, on my dev laptop, tailored for my developer's needs. Something optimized for the hardware, and yet with tight privacy. Apple... your turn!
  • jerlam 2y ago
    Apple WWDC is in three weeks. I am not sure they can change anything based on the Microsoft announcement.
    • KeplerBoy 2y ago
      I am sure Apple is not surprised by any of this and they are not too worried. They have had competent arm chips for years and will board the ai hypetrain in time.
      • llsf 2y ago
        Just cannot wait to see what they have been cooking :)
    • llsf 2y ago
      I agree that it might not arrive at WWDC unless Apple was already working on it for several years... Nonetheless, I see this Microsoft initiative as a canary in the AI coal mine. I would hope Apple would learn from it.
  • ppeetteerr 2y ago
    I don't know if this is the case for others, but I'm seeing missing images on their laptop and tablet marketing pages. The new product line feels very rushed.
  • jazzyjackson 2y ago
    These don't run LLM locally
• dweinus 2y ago
  Genuinely curious: do any of the features/use cases they market here sound appealing to people? I am struggling to imagine wanting to use any of them. I can, however, easily imagine the sound my cooling fan will make while the NPU is running 24/7.
  • DariusKocar 2y ago
    I find this useful as a productivity tool. For example, this can give me my standup update summary. It knows what I worked on and can summarize it for me. AI/LLMs are great at staying organized over huge amounts of data and this is the perfect application. disclosure: I am the founder of Perfect Memory AI https://www.perfectmemory.ai/ https://www.perfectmemory.ai/ that does something very similar today.
    • chx 2y ago
      Until the day it submits something to standup you don't want to and don't tell me you will always carefully filter it and then in best case you get fired. Worst case, you get criminally prosecuted. Jesus, you people never learn.
  • PKop 2y ago
    Not in the least. I'm looking forward to when this trend dies and all of these worse than useless features hopefully get scrapped. Meanwhile there is now extra hardware being put inside new laptops. I wonder if we'll be able to buy CPU's without NPU's?
  • keyringlight 2y ago
    My feeling is much of this client AI hardware push is to dodge the power cost. They're looking at spending $100B on a 5GW 'Stargate' datacenter for AI, and paying back that investment will go better without the ongoing (forever?) costs of running the resulting models centrally.
  • makeitdouble 2y ago
    Honestly no. But then computer marketing hasn't sounded appealing for a while IMHO. Were you excited by the Bezos charts explaining Apple Silicon's blow away performance ? or how the Macbooc Pro M3 is the proest macbook you'ever seen, or how delightful the spaceness or midnightness of the metal finish is ? The machines themselves might actually be pretty good, and have an impact on our daily lives with better battery, better keyboards, clearer screens etc. But expecting the marketing events to honestly assert the incremental improvements is a tall order.
• kotaKat 2y ago
  Can we stop forcing this on the consumers, Microsoft? Please? For once? Can you take "no" for once?
• AdamH12113 2y ago
  Billions of dollars to cram "AI" down our throats, but they can't be bothered to get Excel back up to the level of quality and performance it had 20 years ago.
  • AdamH12113 2y ago
    In retaliation for this comment, Excel glitched out and deleted fifteen minutes' worth of carefully-formatted graphs when I tried to save.
    • teitoklien 2y ago
      Words have consequences -- Bing Chan, from Redmond, Washington.
    • mandibeet 2y ago
      Just can imagine the feeling...
  • BitwiseFool 2y ago
    One thing that has continued to baffle me about Excel is the fact that they force worksheet tabs and the scrollbar to co-exist in the same pane. Why in the world can I not have a full horizontal scrollbar and a full width tab collection?
  • yazzku 2y ago
    Imagine the crass software quality of an AI startup on top of 30+ years of legacy code. That's Copilot+PC for you, boys. Enjoy it to the fullest when your company IT sends it your way.
  • geophph 2y ago
    Still blows my mind that, in the year 2024, it is still unable to open two workbooks with the same name
    • wvenable 2y ago
      It would break the VBA API.
• _diyar 2y ago
  I believe this is only the beginning of the modern OS with a user-interface that is based around AI. Imagine the platform lock-in from a lifetimes worth of meta-data around interactions with an AI agent, which obviously will not be transferable between vendors.
  • onemoresoop 2y ago
    The modern OS that nobody asked for. This could backfire pretty badly if it doesn't succeed. We're still in a hype bubble. When the bubble bursts some thing will stay but many will be washed away
  • beoberha 2y ago
    No chance id want to use these features for personal use for pretty much your exact reason. But for work - man I can’t wait.
  • walterbell 2y ago
    > obviously will not be transferable between vendors. EU DMA regulators could intervene on data portability, https://blog.google/around-the-globe/google-europe/an-update-on-our-preparations-for-the-dma/ https://blog.google/around-the-globe/google-europe/an-update...
• ilikeitdark 2y ago
  Someone convince me that Microsoft isn't just some giant practical joke.
• butterlesstoast 2y ago
  Just came here to say. This has become my all time favorite HN thread.
• afiodorov 2y ago
  >Live Captions now has live translations and will turn any audio that passes through your PC into a single, English-language caption experience, in real time on your screen across all your apps consistently. You can translate any live or pre-recorded audio in any app or video platform from over 40 languages into English subtitles instantly, automatically and even while you’re offline. Wow that's an amazing feature!
  • walterbell 2y ago
    Multi-language Whisper! https://github.com/openai/whisper https://github.com/openai/whisper
• beoberha 2y ago
  I work for Microsoft, so take what I say with a grain of salt. I could not be more excited for these AI productivity features built into the OS. “Recall” is almost exactly what I’ve been dreaming of since the AI boom. I didn’t catch it in the release, but something that can “record” my work life and do things like auto-manage my todo list or answer a question I had about how I did something a year ago is the killer AI product I’ve been waiting for. Not sure I’d want this as a personal device, but would be amazing for work.
  • mellosouls 2y ago
    Possibly, but instant-find software already exists (eg copernic desktop search), and the extra functionality posited by Recall sounds like a potential surveillance nightmare in workplaces given Microsoft's form in the corporate arena.
    • walterbell 2y ago
      Lawsuit discovery fodder.
• michaelteter 2y ago
  I'd like to know what their battery life estimates are with Outlook and Teams running. My guess is ~2 hours.
• arresin 2y ago
  What I don’t understand about this that they tried it by shoehorning it into windows updates (without asking if you wanted it) and it was (in my bubble at least) universally loathed. Does anyone know anyone actually using and enjoying the windows 11 “copilot” update?
• bambax 2y ago
  > We set out to solve one of the most frustrating problems we encounter daily – finding something we know we have seen before on our PC. Today, we must remember what file folder it was stored in, what website it was on, or scroll through hundreds of emails trying to find it. It is indeed frustrating that one still cannot search effectively a local device, but it doesn't need AI to solve. It needs a proper search engine, and Microsoft has resisted that, for some mysterious reason, for 30+ years.
  • baby 2y ago
    I don’t understand why you say it doesn’t need AI. It’s like saying a financial application doesn’t need a database. Maybe it can use something else, but who cares what technology is used as long as it’s good? I’m willing to believe that AI is making this tech much more effective
  • fassssst 2y ago
    Search engines use language models.
    • relyks 2y ago
      Not all do and the ones intended for desktop search likely shouldn't. Something like an inverted index would be a much better solution imo
    • kasabali 2y ago
      For a long time they didn't, and they'd worked better than ever.
  • JohnFen 2y ago
    It's really baffling, isn't it? A part of me wonders if Microsoft is simply unable to figure out how to make a good Windows search and so is looking for AI to do it for them. But it seems like shooting a mosquito with an elephant gun.
    • butterNaN 2y ago
• outside1234 2y ago
  Sounds like the ActiveX of PCs
• fusspawn 2y ago
  ok but what about desktops and non oem silicon
• brap 2y ago
  I feel like we’re at the “3D TV” phase of AI right now.
• victor106 2y ago
  Thanks but no thanks, Not buying or requesting another Windows pc ever again. Its full of adware and spyware at this point. even though I do like Satya's MSFT better than Balmer's.
• srid 2y ago
  Would I still be able to run Ubuntu in WSL when using these Copilot PCs running an ARM processor?
  • dstaley 2y ago
    You can already do that today with existing ARM-powered Windows devices (well, most of them anyway).
• throw7 2y ago
  "You are always in control with privacy you can trust." Sure Jan. Maybe Microsoft should start with proving to us they can actually can keep their private keys secure for starters.
  • yazzku 2y ago
    A company that is at this point considered a national security threat. Yeah, you can certainly trust them with your privacy.
  • proactivesvcs 2y ago
    We're not always in control when telemetry cannot be turned off, when informed consent cannot be given, when choices are repeatedly overridden. They've proven this time and time again, as well as being unable to keep their own house in order.
• paxys 2y ago
  Still waiting for an actual use case for these things. And no, "easily generate AI images" is not one of them, no matter how much Microsoft likes to push it.
  • munchler 2y ago
    Running high-powered AI locally seems like a pretty good use case to me. Cloud-based AI, like OpenAI sells, is expensive and provides inadequate privacy. I want a truly personal computer, not a dumb client.
    • layer8 2y ago
      Running high-powered AI locally is not a use case, it’s something one has to provide use cases for.
      • russdpale 2y ago
        If the chance of hallucination could be statistically guaranteed to be near 0, then it would have many more use cases, imo... but why would I have it summarize a pdf or write some complex code or something if I have to always double check everything for accuracy? A calculator has no use case if it might be wrong.
  • vel0city 2y ago
    Being able to vaguely ask my computer "what that cooking thing Greg talked about and I looked up on that kitchen supply website three months ago" and have it instantly pull up the chat and the web page is pretty handy. Having my computer automatically reference some document I was supposed to look at an hour before a meeting scheduled titled "Important Document Review Meeting" even though it's not attached but on some vague share and a deep directory I forgot about would be nice as well. Maybe this would do that.
  • deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
• moskie 2y ago
  A "Creativity" slider.
• dustedcodes 2y ago
  The word Copilot has been used for so much shit now by Microsoft that it’s literally vomit inducing at this point. Say one more time Copilot and I’m gonna lose it.
  • TiredOfLife 2y ago
    Copilot, Copilot, Copilot!
• redml 2y ago
  the last few years focused on short term conversion metrics for bing and edge have already done their damage, its going to be an uphill battle for them
• davidgerard 2y ago
  meanwhile, Windows 11 is so awful that a game developer can find Linux to be a better desktop for game dev: https://brodybrooks.com/posts/2024-linuxgamedev/ https://brodybrooks.com/posts/2024-linuxgamedev/
• wslh 2y ago
  VS Code optimized would be a better catch, just saying...
  • TiredOfLife 2y ago
    Arm 64 version of VS code came out 4 years ago
    • wslh 2y ago
      I meant the name.
• tornadron 2y ago
  reading all of these comments, reminded me of the old "Microsoft iPod" video, had to dig it up and still kinda relevant---it's 18 years old (!!!) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUXnJraKM3k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUXnJraKM3k
• hollowturtle 2y ago
  “New era” everywhere
• deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
• deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
• hollowturtle 2y ago
  Can I click the Copilot button and ask the os to debloat himself?
• malshe 2y ago
  Somewhat OT but still related - I am using less AI in the last few weeks. I pay for ChatGPT but I barely use it. I sometimes use Perplexity but then also verify the response using Google search, which means I don't use Perplexity often. It's certainly early but as a consumer I feel the AI hype is just that.
• w_for_wumbo 2y ago
  "In fact, 87% of the total app minutes people spend in apps today have native Arm versions." - Are they meaning web browsers? I'm pretty sure the majority of time people spend in apps are web browsers, so it feels incredibly misleading if that's what they're referring to.
  • GartzenDeHaes 2y ago
    Probably whatever they're calling Windows Store apps now, universal windows app or something. These are .net applications that are natively compiled when installed (I think).
  • TiredOfLife 2y ago
    Browser, Office and VS Code
• Multicomp 2y ago
  Pluton will be on by default per the article. This is MS latest play to lockdown PCs from being general purpose computers to 'large mobile phones' and the ARM platform seems to be the trojan horse to get that across the line. * grabs tinfoil hat, considers how it depressingly hasn't worked before, puts it on anyways *
• walterbell 2y ago
  This Apple-genesis (Nuvia) and Microsoft-led (Pluton) Arm Oryon hardware provides rare boot standardization and optional upstream Linux on Arm EL2. With enterprise PC OEMs on board, there should be a healthy supply of used Arm Linux laptops in a few years. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40350408#40355554 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40350408#40355554 The system firmware will ship with 3 boot modes selectable via the setup interface: - Windows (this one has the Windows tcblauncher escalated to EL2 through Secure Launch) - Linux (this one stays at EL1) - Linux w/ KVM (which jumps to EL2 [at ExitBootServices] before kernel handover) Mainline Linux support is underway via Linaro/Qualcomm and Dell supports Ubuntu Linux as a first class OS. Linux support won't be perfect in OryonV1, but if enough customers use these devices with Linux, it can only improve. Device trees are likely still needed for Linux. Arm SystemReady SR/ES assumes sane ACPI tables. That's something that Snapdragon X (1st-gen) very much doesn't have. The ACPI tables present there are pretty much only usable for Windows if you want full functionality.. ESXi-Arm is bootable, but a number of patches were required. April 2024 video & slides: https://eoss24.sched.com/event/1aBEy/enabling-linux-support-with-upstream-kernel-on-snapdragon-x1-elite-socs-rajendra-nayak-qualcomm-innovation-center-inc https://eoss24.sched.com/event/1aBEy/enabling-linux-support-... > the upstream kernel was used during the Snapdragon X1 Elite SoC Linux bringup.. demo booting upstream kernel with a Debian/Ubuntu userspace on a Snapdragon X1 Elite QRD (Qualcomm Reference Device).. Boot to console support has already landed on kernel version v6.7 and is on track to have remaining kernel support land by the time the first commercial device with X1 Elite SoC comes out on the market.
• nerdright 2y ago
  Terminal -> GUI -> Voice Interface Looks like the circle to "humanizing" the computer interface is complete. The GUI is going to become the new terminal.
• zachmu 2y ago
  If Microsoft thinks I'm going to let Windows store screenshots of my work every second indefinitely with their current approach to online identity and privacy, they are nuts.
• adamtaylor_13 2y ago
  Tone-deaf. The last thing I want is AI deciding into which column of my start menu I’d like my Ads crammed. How about Microsoft design an OS that isn’t actively user-hostile and then, maybe, _maybe_ bake in some AI around that?
• baidifnaoxi 2y ago
  This feels like classic Microsoft. Put some great marketing out there. , claim the victory and deliver the actual product months from now. This puts any other vendor or company in a bad place with investors and the public. You have to love it. Shrewd as hell.
• TwoNineFive 2y ago
  A "Copilot". Like someone who stands there and makes sure you make the right decisions. A "minder", if you will.
• amkkma 2y ago
  Anyone know how the hardware compares to the latest mac laptops for running LLMs locally? (compute and vram, shared or otherwise)
• WuxiFingerHold 2y ago
  This gives me instant urges to install i3 as WM on my Linux Machine.
• firejake308 2y ago
  Their Recall feature reminds me of a startup called Rem that posted on here a few weeks ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38787892 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38787892
• squigglydonut 2y ago
  Just make Clippy, it's what the people want.
• rldjbpin 2y ago
  personally i am not all that excited with their hardware prospects, but am curious about all the "optimizations" they did at the OS level. if they are real, can they bother trickling that in the x86 builds, pretty please? i feel they are at the crossroads for supporting legacy, decade-old stuff with an architecture switch. i wonder if they are compromising on all that for the ARM variant.
• Blackstrat 2y ago
  Say goodbye to what little privacy we have left.
• darthrupert 2y ago
  Could be a very decent laptop if it runs Linux. But why pay Microsoft for an OS you're not going to use? I hope System76 has ARMs up their sleeve.
• ssahoo 2y ago
  Hey copilot, generate name for our next hardware product that sounds similar to windows xp professional with service pack 2. Cortana: Sure thing, here you go.