33 ms·

Slack AI Training with Customer Data

• rglullis 2y ago
  For those considering moving away from Slack: https://matrix.org/ecosystem/hosting/ https://matrix.org/ecosystem/hosting/
• jjgreen 2y ago
  “But look, you found the notice, didn’t you?” “Yes,” said Arthur, “yes I did. It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying ‘Beware of the Leopard.”
• tikkun 2y ago
  Eugh. Has anyone compiled a list of companies that do this, so I can avoid them? If anyone knows of other companies training on customer data without an easy highly visible toggle opt out, please comment them below.
  • berniedurfee 2y ago
    *
  • weikju 2y ago
    *
  • ceruleanseas 2y ago
    We can fight back by not posting anything useful or accurate to the internet until there are protections in place and each person gets to decide how their data is used and whether they are compensated for it.
    • spywaregorilla 2y ago
      [flagged]
  • porksoda 2y ago
    [flagged]
  • goles 2y ago
    Synology updated this policy back in March (Happened to be a Friday afternoon). Services Data Collection Disclosure "Synology only uses the information we obtain from technical support requests to resolve your issue. After removing your personal information, we may use some of the technical details to generate bug reports if the problem was previously unknown to implement a solution for our products." "Synology utilizes the information gathered through technical support requests exclusively for issue resolution purposes. Following the removal of personal data, certain technical details may be utilized for generating bug reports, especially for previously unidentified problems, aimed at implementing solutions for our product line. Additionally, Synology may transmit anonymized technical information to Microsoft Azure and leverage its OpenAI services to enhance the overall technical support experience. Synology will ensure that personally identifiable information, such as names, phone numbers, addresses, email addresses, IP addresses and product serial numbers, is excluded from this process." I used to just delete privacy policy update emails and the like but now I make a habit of going in to diff them to see if these have been slipped in.
    • arresin 2y ago
      Like the other poster it would be great to have a name and shame site that lists companies training on customer data
  • paxys 2y ago
    It would be easier to compile a list of companies that don't do this. The list:
    • internetter 2y ago
      Nonsense. There are plenty of companies that don't have shit policies like this. A vast majority, even. Stop normalizing it.
    • hosteur 2y ago
      My company does not do this and have no plans to do such a thing.
      • berniedurfee 2y ago
        Lol, my favorite corpo-speak. I’m not eating a steak and have no plans to eat a steak. Ask again tomorrow.
  • kepano 2y ago
    if your data is stored in a database that a company can freely read and access (i.e. not end-to-end encrypted), the company will eventually update their ToS so they can use your data for AI training — the incentives are too strong to resist https://twitter.com/kepano/status/1688610782509211648 https://twitter.com/kepano/status/1688610782509211648 https://twitter.com/kepano/status/1682829662370557952 https://twitter.com/kepano/status/1682829662370557952
    • ncr100 2y ago
      And the penalty is unnoticeable to these companies.
• tylerrobinson 2y ago
  > If you want to exclude your Customer Data from helping train Slack global models, you can opt out. Well gee whiz, you want to help your old pal Slack, don’t you? It’s such a slap in the face. And the opt-out is only available by email where more friction could be introduced.
  • bionhoward 2y ago
    “Do not access the Services in order to build a similar or competitive product or service or copy any ideas, features, functions, or graphics of the Services;” https://slack.com/acceptable-use-policy https://slack.com/acceptable-use-policy I wonder if OpenAI wishes they could train ChatGPT on their corporate chat history? How ironic ? Or they don’t care?
  • nyc_data_geek 2y ago
    So slimy that this isn't instead an opt-in!
    • padolsey 2y ago
      They know, as well, that opt-in simply wouldn’t give them the scale they’d need for meaningful training data. They’re being very intentionally self interested and unconcerned with their customers best interests.
  • ttul 2y ago
    Real change requires legislation.
  • deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
• hex4def6 2y ago
  I'm confused about this statement: "When developing AI/ML models or otherwise analyzing Customer Data, Slack can’t access the underlying content. We have various technical measures preventing this from occurring" "Can't" is a strong word. I'm curious how an AI model could access data, but Slack, Inc itself couldn't. I suspect they mean "doesn't" instead of "can't", unless I'm missing something.
  • EGreg 2y ago
    Every company that promises "end-to-end encryption" is just pinky-swearing to you also. Like Telegram or WhatsApp
    • LelouBil 2y ago
      Yeah, at least if the client is open source you could verify.
      • 8372049 2y ago
        "If you can read assembly, all programs are open source." Sure, it's easier and less effort if the program is actually open source, but it's absolutely still possible to verify on bytecode, decompiled or disassembled programs, too.
    • int_19h 2y ago
      Telegram client is open source, so you can see what exactly happens there when you enable E2EE.
      • EGreg 2y ago
        Reproducible builds somehow ?
        • shultays 2y ago
          https://core.telegram.org/reproducible-builds https://core.telegram.org/reproducible-builds
• nomad-nigiri 2y ago
  Isn’t Salesforce’s primary value proposition trust?
  • deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  • tbdfm 2y ago
    Salesforce's primary value proposition is that software quality doesn't matter.
• icoe 2y ago
  Not to be glib, but this why we built Tonic Textual (www.tonic.ai/textual). It’s both very challenging and very important to protect data in training workflows. We designed Textual to make it easy to both redact sensitive data and replace it with contextually relevant synthetic data.
  • Ephil012 2y ago
    To add on to this: I think it should be mentioned that Slack says they'll prevent data leakage across workspaces in their model, but don't explain how they do this. They don't seem to go into any detail about their data safeguards and how they're excluding sensitive info from training. Textual is good for this purpose since it redacts PII thus preventing it from being leaked by the trained model. Disclaimer: I work at Tonic
    • a2128 2y ago
      How do you handle proprietary data being leaked? Sure you can easily detect and redact names and phone numbers and addresses, but without significant context it seems difficult to detect whether "11 spices - mix with 2 cups of white flour ... 2/3 teaspoons of salt, 1/2 teaspoons of thyme [...]" is just a normal public recipe or a trade secret kept closely guarded for 70 years
      • icoe 2y ago
        Fair question, but you have to consider the realistic alternatives. For most of our customers inaction isn't an option. The combination of NER models + synthesis LLMs actually handles these types of cases fairly well. I put your comment into our web app and this was the output: How do you handle proprietary data being leaked? Sure you can easily detect and redact names and phone numbers and addresses, but without significant context it seems difficult to detect whether "17 spices - mix with 2lbs of white flour ... half teaspoon of salt, 1 tablespoon of thyme [...]" is just a normal public recipe or a trade secret kept closely guarded for 75 years.
• paxys 2y ago
  > Data will not leak across workspaces. > If you want to exclude your Customer Data from helping train Slack global models, you can opt out. I don't understand how both these statements can be true. If they are using your data to train models used across workspaces then it WILL leak. If they aren't then why do they need an opt out? Edit: reading through the examples of AI use at the bottom of the page (search results, emoji suggestions, autocomplete), my guess is this policy was put in place a decade ago and doesn't have anything to do with LLMs. Another edit: From https://slack.com/help/articles/28310650165907-Security-for-Slack-AI https://slack.com/help/articles/28310650165907-Security-for-... > Customer data is never used to train large language models (LLMs). So yeah, sounds like a nothingburger.
  • fallingsquirrel 2y ago
    There are no data leaks in Ba Sing Se.
  • whimsicalism 2y ago
    They're saying they won't train generative models that will literally regurgitate your text, my guess is classifiers are fair game in their interpretation
    • swatcoder 2y ago
      You are assuming they're saying that, because it's one charitable interpretation of what they're saying. But they haven't actually said that. It also happens that people say things based on faulty or disputed beliefs of their own, or people willfully misrprepresent things, etc Until they actually do say something as explicit as what you suggest, they haven't said anything of the sort.
      • whimsicalism 2y ago
        > Data will not leak across workspaces. For any model that will be used broadly across all of our customers, we do not build or train these models in such a way that they could learn, memorize, or be able to reproduce some part of Customer Data. I feel like that is explicitly what this is saying.
• blhack 2y ago
  How could this possibly comply with European "right to be forgotten" legislation? In fact, how could any of these AI models comply with that? If a user requests to be forgotten, is the entire model retrained (I don't think so).
  • whimsicalism 2y ago
    > how could any of these AI models comply with that? If a user requests to be forgotten, is the entire model retrained (I don't think so). I don't believe that is the current interpretation of GDPR, etc. - if the model is trained, it doesn't have to be deleted due to a RTBF request afaik. there is significant legal uncertainty here Recent GDPR court decisions mean that this is probably still non-compliant due to the fact that it is opt-out rather than opt-in. Likely they are just filtering out all data produced in the EEA.
    • 8372049 2y ago
      > Likely they are just filtering out all data produced in the EEA. Likely they are just hoping to not get caught and/or consider it cost of doing business. GDPR has truly shown us (as if we didn't already know) that compliance must be enforced.
  • beefnugs 2y ago
    This "ai" scam going on now is the ultimate convoluted process to hide sooo much tomfuckery: theres no such thing as copyright anymore! this isn't stealing anything, its transforming it! you must opt out before we train our model on the entire internet! (and we still won't spits in our face) this isn't going to reduce any jobs at all! (every company on earth fires 15% of everyone immediately) you must return to office immediately or be fired! (so we get more car data teehee) this one weird trick will turn you into the ultimate productive programmer! (but we will be selling it to individuals not really making profitable products with it ourselves) and finally the most aggregious and dangerous: censorship at the lowest level of information before it can ever get anywhere near peoples fingertips or eyeballs.
    • 2y ago
• ramijames 2y ago
  I bet Discord is next.
  • herpdyderp 2y ago
    I bet Discord is already doing it.
  • reportgunner 2y ago
    I regularly get ads or content on tiktok based on what I discuss in DMs on discord. It takes about an hour or sometimes even less.
    • nurple 2y ago
      Same, but on YouTube.
• blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
  I can’t believe Slack added a bunch of AI features, without having admins opt into enabling them, and then put out a policy that requests that you send an email to have an opt out from your data being used for training. All of this should be opt-in and should respect the administrator’s prerogative. Very irresponsible for Salesforce (parent company) and I’ll be reconsidering if we continue using them, if this is the low trust way in which they will operate. We don’t have time to keep policing these things.
  • paxys 2y ago
    I would suggest not getting your knowledge of the world from the titles of upvoted HN posts and instead do your own research.
• light_hue_1 2y ago
  This is the final push we needed to move to Discord. Bye slack. We won't miss you.
  • noman-land 2y ago
    Discord is not a better option than Slack. They are basically the same thing. Matrix is a better option from a privacy standpoint, just not from a UX one.
    • FujiApple 2y ago
      I recently tried Zulip [1] again after a few years and the UX is much improved on web and mobile, worth a look (it is OSS and you can self host). [1] https://zulip.com/ https://zulip.com/
      • noman-land 2y ago
        Thanks! I'll check it out.
  • Shekelphile 2y ago
    It is a bold assumption to think that discord hasn't always been using harvested text/voice/video data to train models.
• morkalork 2y ago
  I pity the users who have to put up with an AI trained on my slack conversations ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
• budududuroiu 2y ago
  > We offer customers a choice around these practices If you’re so customer-first, and make it so easy to opt out, just make it opt-in instead. Oh wait, you’re just a lying pathetic corpo
  • hu3 2y ago
    Sadly, even Firefox is using opt-out these days. I feel we're going downhill with regards to privacy. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40355982 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40355982 > What Firefox’s search data collection means for you > We understand that any new data collection might spark some questions. Simply put, this new method only categorizes the websites that show up in your searches — not the specifics of what you’re personally looking up. > Sensitive topics, like searching for particular health care services, are categorized only under broad terms like health or society. Your search activities are handled with the same level of confidentiality as all other data regardless of any local laws surrounding certain health services. > Remember, you can always opt out of sending any technical or usage data to Firefox. Here’s a step-by-step guide on how to adjust your settings. We also don’t collect category data when you use Private Browsing mode on Firefox. > As far as user experience goes, you won’t see any visible changes in your browsing. Our new approach to data will just enable us to better refine our product features and offerings in ways that matter to you.
    • budududuroiu 2y ago
      Yeah these statements are always so benevolent, with the patronising undertone of “this is for your own good, for a better experience”. SMH
• CatWChainsaw 2y ago
  Opt-out and arbitration should both be illegal.
• zmmmmm 2y ago
  > For any model that will be used broadly across all of our customers, we do not build or train these models in such a way that they could learn, memorise, or be able to reproduce some part of Customer Data This feels so full of subtle qualifiers and weasel words that it generates far more distrust than trust. It only refers to models used "broadly across all" customers - so if it's (a) not used "broadly" or (b) only used for some subset of customers, the whole statement doesn't apply. Which actually sounds really bad because the logical implication is that data CAN leak outside those circumstances. They need to reword this. Whoever wrote it is a liability.
  • mayank 2y ago
    > They need to reword this. Whoever wrote it is a liability Sounds like it’s been written specifically to avoid liability.
    • MingFengLiu 2y ago
      I'm sure it was lawyers. It's always lawyers.
      • cqqxo4zV46cp 2y ago
        Yes, lawyers do tend to have a part to play in writing things that present a legally binding commitment being made by an organisation. Developers really can’t throw stones from their glass houses here. How many of you have a pre-canned spiel explaining why the complexities of whichever codebase you spend your days on are ACTUALLY necessary, and are certainly NOT the result of over-engineering? Thought so.
        • ben_w 2y ago
          > How many of you have a pre-canned spiel explaining why the complexities of whichever codebase you spend your days on are ACTUALLY necessary, and are certainly NOT the result of over-engineering? Thought so. Hm, now you mention it, I don't think I've ever seen this specific example. Not that we don't have jargon that's bordering on cant, leading to our words being easily mis-comprehended by outsiders: https://i.imgur.com/SL88Z6g.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/SL88Z6g.jpeg Canned cliches are also the only thing I get whenever I try to find out why anyone likes the VIPER design pattern — and that's despite being totally convinced that (one of) the people I was talking to, had genuinely and sincerely considered my confusion and had actually experimented with a different approach to see if my point was valid.
• deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
• Rebuff5007 2y ago
  How can anyone in their right mind think building AI for emoji selection is a remotely good use of time...
  • dlandis 2y ago
    > "These types of thoughtful personalizations and improvements are only possible if we study and understand how our users interact with Slack." LOL
  • barkbyte 2y ago
    I’d use that, at work. It would be a welcome improvement to their product.
  • nextworddev 2y ago
    it's just a justification for collecting tokens
    • TechDebtDevin 2y ago
      Tokens (outside of a few trillion ) are worthless imo, I think OAI has pushed that limit, let the others chase them with billions into the ocean of useless conversational data and drown.
  • deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
• nyc_data_geek 2y ago
  Story time. I was at a VC conference last year and if I learned nothing else there, I learned how to spell "AI". Every single exhibitor just about had their signage proudly proclaiming their capabilities in this area, but one in particular struck me. They were touting the API integrations they could offer to train their "Enterprise AI"/LLM, and among those integrations were things like M365, Slack, etc. It struck me because of the garbage in, garbage out problem. I'd like to think that the amount of shitposting I do on Slack personally will poison that particular well of training data, but this seems to point to a larger problem to me. LLM's don't have a concept of truth or reality, or awareness of any sort. If the training data they are fed is poorly quality checked/unsanitized by human intelligence, the outputs will be as useless/noisy as the original data set. It feels to me that in the frothy rush to capture market buzz and VC, this is being forgotten. Am I missing something, here?
  • beeboobaa3 2y ago
    More ignored than forgotten.
    • nyc_data_geek 2y ago
      Wallpapered over?
  • leoh 2y ago
    Yes, consider an existing LLM being given “shitpost-y” messages and asking it if there is anything interesting in there. It could probably summarize it well and that could then be used for training another LLM. etc etc
    • nyc_data_geek 2y ago
      This assumes everything in the training data set is accurate. Sometimes people are wrong, obtuse, sarcastic, etc. LLM's don't have any way of detecting or accounting for this, do they? That output, then being used to train other LLM's, just creates an ouroboros of AI generated dogshit.
• dfcarney 2y ago
  In case this is helpful to anyone else, I opted out earlier today with an email to feedback@slack.com Subject: Slack Global Model opt-out request. Body: <my workspace>.slack.com Please opt the above Slack Workspace out of training of Slack Global Models.
  • noman-land 2y ago
    Make sure you put a period at the end of the subject line. Their quoted text includes a period at the end. Please also scold them for behaving unethically and perhaps breaking the law.
    • dfcarney 2y ago
      Updated!
    • jgalt212 2y ago
      We just opted out. I told them our lawyers have been instructed to watch them like a hawk.
    • drcongo 2y ago
      The period is outside the quotes though, are you suggesting we should have the quotes too?
      • noman-land 2y ago
        The section from the OP I'm referring to is: Contact us to opt out. If you want to exclude your Customer Data from Slack global models, you can opt out. To opt out, please have your Org or Workspace Owners or Primary Owner contact our Customer Experience team at feedback@slack.com with your Workspace/Org URL and the subject line “Slack Global model opt-out request.” We will process your request and respond once the opt out has been completed. That includes a period before inside the quotes which would suggest a period inside the subject line.
        • drcongo 2y ago
• pyromaker 2y ago
  >Our mission is to build a product that makes work life simpler, more pleasant and more productive. I know it would be impossible but I wish we go back to the days when we didn't have Slack (or tools alike). Our Slack is a cesspool of people complaining, talking behind other people's backs, echo chamber of negativity etc. That probably speaks more to the overall culture of the company, but Slack certainly doesn't help.You can also say "tool is not the problem, people are" - sure, we can always explain things away, but Slack certainly plays a role here.
  • matthewmacleod 2y ago
    No, I don’t think Slack does play a role in this. It is quite literally a communication tool (and I’d argue one that encourages far _more_ open communication than others). If Slack is a cesspool, that’s because your company culture is a cesspool.
    • grob-gambit 2y ago
      I think open communication in a toxic environment can obviously amplify toxicity or at least less open communication can act as a damper on toxicity. Slack is surely not the generator of toxicity but it seems obvious it could act at increasing the bandwidth. You can't have it both ways.
  • vasco 2y ago
    I disagree slack plays a role. You only mentioned human aspects, nothing to do with technology. There was always going to be instant messaging as software once computers and networks were invented. You'd just say this happens over email and blame email.
  • rjh29 2y ago
    > That probably speaks more to the overall culture of the company Yep. Fun fact, my last workplace had a fairly nontoxic Slack... but there was a whole second Slack dedicated to bitching and shitposting where the bosses weren't invited. Humans gonna human.
• koolba 2y ago
  > We offer Customers a choice around these practices. If you want to exclude your Customer Data from helping train Slack global models, you can opt out. If you opt out, Customer Data on your workspace will only be used to improve the experience on your own workspace and you will still enjoy all of the benefits of our globally trained AI/ML models without contributing to the underlying models. Why would anyone not opt-out? (Besides not knowing they have to of course…) Seems like only a losing situation.
  • m463 2y ago
    > Why would anyone not opt-out? This is basically like all privacy on the internet. Everyone WOULD opt-out, if it was easy, and it becomes a whack-a-optput game. note how you opt-out (generic contact us), and what happens when you do opt-out (they still train anyway)
    • halostatue 2y ago
      When we send our notice, we are going to be sending a notice that we want none of our data used for any ML training from Slack or anyone else.
    • __loam 2y ago
      Opt out should be the default by law
      • hackernewds 2y ago
        so upgrades and customer approves everything? slippery slope to over regulation
        • __loam 2y ago
          The status quo is consumer abuse.
        • yellow_postit 2y ago
          Hence the cookie banners
• matt3210 2y ago
  Consent should be opt-in not opt-out. Yes means yes!
  • noman-land 2y ago
    Can we start going a step further by demanding that consent must be opt-in and not opt-out? Requesting isn't good enough.
    • 8372049 2y ago
      GDPR got that covered, now it just needs to become global, and enforced.
• kepano 2y ago
  In summary, you must opt-out if you want to exclude your data from global models. Incredibly confusing language since they also vaguely state that "data will not leak across workspaces". Use tools that cannot leak data not "will not".
  • creativeSlumber 2y ago
    what is the difference between "will not" and "cannot" in legalese?
    • glennericksen 2y ago
      "Will not" allows the existence of a bridge but it's not on your route and you say you're not going to go over it. "Cannot" is the absence of a bridge or the ability to cross it.
      • gketuma 2y ago
        Wow, well explained.
    • purplejacket 2y ago
      My off leash dog will not bite you, he is well behaved. My dog at home cannot bite you, he is too far away.
  • semitones 2y ago
    Aren't all tools, essentially, just one API call away from "leaking data"?
    • kepano 2y ago
      In this case they mean leak into the global model — so no. You can have sovereignty of your data if you use an open protocol like IRC or Matrix, or a self-hosted tool like Zulip, Mattermost, Rocket Chat, etc
  • mvkel 2y ago
• persedes 2y ago
  can't wait for someone to recreate the secret keys that were shared via slack using those models.
• deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
• deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
• r_thambapillai 2y ago
  The incentive for first party tool providers to do this is going to be huge, whether its Slack, Google, Microsoft, or really any other SaaS tool. Ultimately, if business want to avoid getting commoditized by their vendors, they need be in control of their data, and their AI strategy. And that probably ultimately means turning off all of these small-utility-very-expensive-and-might-ruin-your-business features, and actually creating a centralized, access controlled, well governed knowledge base which you can plug any open source or black box LLM, from any provider.
  • jonnycomputer 2y ago
    "commoditized by their vendors" is exactly the phrase I was looking for. It's why I wanted my co to self-host Mattermost instead of using Slack.
  • arresin 2y ago
    It’s definitely a moral hazard (/opportunity). As a reminder, by default on windows 11 Microsoft syncs your files to their server.
    • Liquix 2y ago
      all your files? no way that cozy of a blanket statement can be true. if you kept cycling in drives full of /dev/random you could fill up M$ servers with petabytes of junk? sounds like an appealing weekend project
• kyleee 2y ago
  This should be opt in
• nextworddev 2y ago
  Reminder that Slack is owned by SalesForce
• jonnycomputer 2y ago
  Is this new? As in, when was this policy developed?
  • mc110 2y ago
    From https://web.archive.org/web/20230101000000*/https://slack.com/intl/en-gb/trust/data-management/privacy-principles https://web.archive.org/web/20230101000000*/https://slack.co... it looks like they changed this sometime between 01-Apr-2023 and 18-Oct-2023
    • lopuhin 2y ago
      Then the date of 5th July 2023 looks likely as this is the date from which overall privacy policy is in effect: https://slack.com/intl/en-gb/trust/privacy/privacy-policy https://slack.com/intl/en-gb/trust/privacy/privacy-policy Interesting choice of date btw
• awinter-py 2y ago
  if shitty TOS turns out to be the thing that bends the arc of history from AI to privacy, it would make me so happy
• jonnycomputer 2y ago
  This is, once again, why I wanted us to go to self-hosted Mattermost instead of Slack. I recognize Slack is probably the better product (or mostly better), but you have to own your data.
• jonnycomputer 2y ago
  It should be opt-in. Not opt-out.
• ds 2y ago
  Just another read to mass delete your Slack DM's before you quit your job/move to another job. https://redact.dev https://redact.dev (my startup) makes this easy.
• xyst 2y ago
  The gold rush for data is wild. Private companies selling us out. - Slack - Discord - Reddit - Stackoverflow Let’s just hope this data gold rush dies out faster than the web3 craze before OpenAI reaches critical mass and gets access to government server farms. Alphabet boys have server farms of domestic and foreign surveillance and intelligence. Exabytes of data [1] [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_Data_Center https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_Data_Center
  • ilrwbwrkhv 2y ago
    I mean slack is sold off. Founders made money. For all intents and purposes it's dead software.
    • Liquix 2y ago
      proprietary software that no one who cares about privacy or security should use? absolutely. dead? not exactly
    • smileysteve 2y ago
      It's owned by Salesforce;n if they stop growing it, it'll go the way of Heroku - and that breach didn't go well.
    • eggdaft 2y ago
      I actually think Slack is great and it has improved over the last 12 months.
    • whywhywhywhy 2y ago
      The data it has is incredibly valuable if they build their own product or sell it off. You essentially have org charts of entire companies and people asking for things and getting responses and working back and forth together long term. In terms of building agents for doing real work this could be more valuable than things like Reddit.
  • bigstrat2003 2y ago
    Don't forget Dropbox: https://twitter.com/Werner/status/1734890651378975007 https://twitter.com/Werner/status/1734890651378975007
• mvkel 2y ago
  > we do not build or train these models in such a way that they could learn, memorise, or be able to reproduce some part of Customer Data They don't "build" them this way (whatever that means) but if training data is somehow leaked, they're off the hook because they didn't build it that way?
• lagniappe 2y ago
  > Contact us to opt out. If you want to exclude your Customer Data from Slack global models, you can opt out. To opt out, please have your Org or Workspace Owners or Primary Owner contact our Customer Experience team at feedback@slack.com with your Workspace/Org URL and the subject line “Slack Global model opt-out request.” We will process your request and respond once the opt out has been completed. This is not ok. We didn't have to reach out by email to sign up, this should be a toggle in the UI. This is deliberately high friction.
• gtirloni 2y ago
  > To develop AI/ML models, our systems analyze Customer Data (e.g. messages, content, and files) submitted to Slack as well as Other Information (including usage information) > We have technical controls in place to prevent access. When developing AI/ML models or otherwise analyzing Customer Data, Slack can’t access the underlying content *> you want to exclude your Customer Data from helping train Slack global models, you can opt out. Yeah...
• rank0 2y ago
  Even if salesforce has the purest intentions of following policy your data is still at risk. In real life policies have to be enforced and it's not always technically feasible to do so. It doesn’t even have to be calculated or malicious!
• willmadden 2y ago
  They are breaking a lot of laws by doing this. There are plenty of regulated industries in healthcare and financial services using slack.
  • bostik 2y ago
    Indeed. I flagged this internally the first thing this morning, and fully expect to field questions from our clients over the next couple of weeks as the news percolates through to upper echelons. I can tolerate Slack and/or Salesforce at large building per-customer overlays on top of a generic LLM. Those at least can provide actual business value[ß], and give their AI teams something to experiment on. But feeding gazillion companies' internal (and workspace-joined!) chats to a global model? Hell no. Unsurprisingly, we opted out a few hours ago. ß: a smart, context-aware autocomplete for those who need to type a lot on their phones would not be a bad idea. The current generation of autocorrupt is obnoxious.
• chefandy 2y ago
  I wonder how many people that are really mad about these guys or SE using their professional output to train models thought commercial artists were just being whiny sore losers when Deviant Art, Adobe, OpenAI, Stability, et al did it to them.
  • Liquix 2y ago
    squarely in the former camp. there's something deeply abhorrent about creating a place that encourages people to share and build and collaborate, then turning around and using their creative output to put more money in shareholder pockets. i deleted my reddit and github accounts when they decided the millions of dollars per month they're receiving from their users wasn't enough. don't have the power to move our shop off slack but rest assured many will as a result of this announcement.
    • chefandy 2y ago
      Yeah I haven't put a new codebease on GH in years. It's kind of a PITA hosting my own gitea server for personal projects but letting MS copy my work to help make my professional skillset less valuable is far less palatable. Companies doing this would make me much less angry if they used an opt-in model only for future data. I didn't have a crystal ball and I don't have a time machine, so I simply can't stop these companies from using my work for their gain.
      • 8372049 2y ago
        Why do you think it's a pain to host the Gitea?
        • chefandy 2y ago
          Compared to hosting other things? Nothing! It's great. Hosting my own service rather than using a free SaaS solution that is entirely someone else's problem? There's a significant difference there. I've been running Linux servers either professionally or personally for almost 25 years, so it's not like it's a giant problem... but my work has been increasingly non-technical over the past 5 years or so, so even minor hiccups require re-acclimating myself to the requisite constructs and tools (wait, how do cron time patterns work? How do I test a variable in bash for this one-liner? How do iptables rules work again?) It's not a deal breaker, but given the context, it's definitely not not a pain in the ass, either.
• curious_cat_163 2y ago
  The nerve.
• IceHegel 2y ago
  Canceling my company’s slack as we speak. Not cool.
• austinkhale 2y ago
  Wow. I understand business models that are freemium but for a premium priced B2B product? This feels like an incredible rug pull. This changes things for me.
• hehdhdjehehegwv 2y ago
  I long ago replaced Slack with Signal chat rooms. You can set an auto delete and it’s all secure to start with. Also, free.
  • hyping9 2y ago
    Cool. Now do it for a 3,000 person org with varied tech skills and patience.
    • hehdhdjehehegwv 2y ago
      There is no way a chat room with 3,000 people is remotely useful to anybody.
      • hyping9 2y ago
        Right, that's why thousands of enterprises use them.
• deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
• nutanc 2y ago
  > We offer Customers a choice around these practices. If you want to exclude your Customer Data from helping train Slack global models, you can opt out. If you opt out, Customer Data on your workspace will only be used to improve the experience on your own workspace and you will still enjoy all of the benefits of our globally trained AI/ML models without contributing to the underlying models. Sick and tired of these default opt in explicit opt out legalese. The default should be opt out. Just stop using my data.
• paulv 2y ago
  It seems like we've entered an era where not only are you paying for software with money, you're also paying for software with your data, privacy implications be damned. I would love to see people picking f/oss instead.
  • eggdaft 2y ago
    Problems with f/oss for business applications: 1. Great UX folks almost never work for free. So the UX of nearly all OSS is awful. 2. Great software comes from a close connection to users. When your software is an OS kernel that works just fine for programmers, but how many OSS folks want to spend their free time on zoom talking to hundreds of businesses and understanding their needs, so they can give them free software? See also: year of Linux desktop
    • AlexandrB 2y ago
      The good news for FOSS is that the UX of most commercial software is also awful and generally getting worse. The bad news is that FOSS software is copying a lot of the same UX trends.
• deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
• _mh56 2y ago
  > Contact us to opt out. If you want to exclude your Customer Data from Slack global models, you can opt out. To opt out, please have your org, workspace owners or primary owner contact our Customer Experience team at feedback@slack.com Sounds like an invitation for malicious compliance. Anyone can email them a huge text with workspace buried somewhere and they have to decipher it somehow. Example [Answer is Org-12-Wp]: " FORMAL DIRECTIVE AND BINDING COVENANT WHEREAS, the Parties to this Formal Directive and Binding Covenant, to wit: [Your Name] (hereinafter referred to as "Principal") and [AI Company Name] (hereinafter referred to as "Technological Partner"), wish to enter into a binding agreement regarding certain parameters for the training of an artificial intelligence system; AND WHEREAS, the Principal maintains control and discretion over certain proprietary data repositories constituting segmented information habitats; AND WHEREAS, the Principal desires to exempt one such segmented information habitat, namely the combined loci identified as "Org", the region denoted as "12", and the territory designated "Wp", from inclusion in the training data utilized by the Technological Partner for machine learning purposes; NOW, THEREFORE, in consideration of the mutual covenants and promises contained herein, the receipt and sufficiency of which are hereby acknowledged, the Parties agree as follows: DEFINITIONS 1.1 "Restricted Information Habitat" shall refer to the proprietary data repository identified by the Principal as the conjoined loci of "Org", the region "12", and the territory "Wp". OBLIGATIONS OF TECHNOLOGICAL PARTNER 2.1 The Technological Partner shall implement all reasonably necessary technical and organizational measures to ensure that the Restricted Information Habitat, as defined herein, is excluded from any training data sets utilized for machine learning model development and/or refinement. 2.2 The Technological Partner shall maintain an auditable record of compliance with the provisions of this Formal Directive and Binding Covenant, said record being subject to inspection by the Principal upon reasonable notice. REMEDIES 3.1 In the event of a material breach... [Additional legalese] IN WITNESS WHEREOF, the Parties have executed this Formal Directive and Binding Covenant."
• ugh123 2y ago
  Whatever the models used, or type of data within accounts this operates on, this clause would be red lined in most of the big customer accounts that have leverage during the sales/renewal process. Small to medium accounts will be supplying most of this data.
• theyinwhy 2y ago
  Good we moved to matrix already. I just hope they start putting more emphasis on Element X, which message handling is broken on iOS for weeks now.
  • Arathorn 2y ago
    Element X is where all the effort is going, and should be working really well. How is msg handling broken?
    • drcongo 2y ago
      Not the OP here, but I've tried really hard to use Element X and it crashes constantly.
      • Arathorn 2y ago
        i think i can count the number of crashes i've had with Element X iOS on fingers of one hand since dogfooding it since last summer (whereas classic Element iOS would crash every few days). Is this on Android or iOS? Was it a recent build? If so, which one? It really shouldn't be crashing.
    • theyinwhy 2y ago
      I need to go back to the overview whenever I receive a new message, as the reply form is broken after each message received.
      • Arathorn 2y ago
        Hm. is this on iOS or Android, and what version? This is first i've heard of this; it should be rock solid. Am wondering if you're stuck on an ancient version or something.
• barrenko 2y ago
  "Interacting" with HR is just going to get weirder, isn't it?
• tifik 2y ago
  Well I really hope this massively blows up in their face when all of Europe goes to work just about now, and then North America in 5-8 hours. Let's see if we have another Helldivers 2 event that makes them do a hard backpedal after losing thousands of large customers that will not under any circumstances take the chance. I have a friend with a law firm who just called me yesterday for advice as he's thinking about switching to Slack from Teams. I gave him a glowing recommendation because it is literally night and day, but there is no way in hell he takes any chance any sensitive legal discussions leak out through prompt hacking. He might even be liable himself for knowingly using a tool that spells out "we read and reuse your conversations".
  • p1esk 2y ago
    But you can opt out, right? So what’s the problem? Also, is Teams (and other messengers) any different?
    • apignotti 2y ago
      You can opt-out by manually writing an email to them. The process matters.
      • deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
      • whatevaa 2y ago
        They could make it even better, like requiring signed/certified physical mail /s. Or fax...
        • lproven 2y ago
          :-D
    • troupo 2y ago
      > But you can opt out, right? So what’s the problem? This thinking is the problem. "Oh, we just added your entire private/privileged/NDA/corporate information to our training set without your consent. What's the problem?" Opt-out must be the default. Edit: By "Opt-out must be the default." I mean: no one's data must be included until they explicitly give consent via an opt-in :)
• luckyshot 2y ago
  So if you want to opt out, there's no setting to switch, you need to send an email with a specific subject: > Contact us to opt out. [...] To opt out, please have your Org or Workspace Owners or Primary Owner contact our Customer Experience team at feedback@slack.com with your Workspace/Org URL and the subject line “Slack Global model opt-out request.” [...]
• BillFranklin 2y ago
  Slack has been using customer data for ML for years. Look at their search feature - it uses learning to rank, a machine learning approach that tracks content, clicks etc. It sounds like the worry is this overfit generative AI will spew out some private input verbatim… which I can see happening honestly. Look at GitHub copilot, it’s almost a copy paste machine.
• nxpnsv 2y ago
  How do the self hosted alternatives compare?
• oytis 2y ago
  So much to "if you are not paying you are the product". There is nothing that can stop companies from using your sweet sweet data once give it them.
• frexs 2y ago
  > To develop AI/ML models, our systems analyse Customer Data (e.g. messages, content and files) submitted to Slack This Is Fine.
• musha68k 2y ago
  This is as systemically concerning as the data practices seen on Discord with integrations like statbot.net, though at least Slack is being transparent about it. Regardless, I find all of this highly problematic.
  • 8372049 2y ago
    Disord's TOS used to say "we may sell all your convos, including your private ones". Then some time later, they suddenly they changed it to noooo, we would never sell aaanything, and didn't even update the "last changed" date. I deleted my Discord account and stopped using them immediately after I noticed the TOS, but them sneakily trying to cover it up later completely ruined any lingering trust I might have had in them. And this is just one of many, many problems associated with the platform.
• ptman 2y ago
  We really need to start using self-hosted solutions. Like matrix / element for team messaging. It's ok not wanting to run your own hardware at your own premises. But the solution is to run a solution that is end-to-end encrypted so that the hosting service cannot get at the data. cryptpad.fr is another great piece of software.
  • neop1x 2y ago
    Zulip (https://zulip.com/ https://zulip.com/) seems to be a great self-hosted python-based alternative to Slack/Teams.
  • evtothedev 2y ago
    You could checkout [Campfire](https://once.com/campfire https://once.com/campfire). You get teh source code (Ruby on Rails) and you deploy wherever. We're running ours on a digital ocean droplet.
• ellisnguyen 2y ago
  Can we organize some sort of boycott somehow somewhere? Something in court possible? This is not just some analytics data or email names, this is potential leakage of secrets and private conversations for thousands of companies and millions of individuals. Ridiculous.
• yorwba 2y ago
  "We protect privacy while doing so by separating our model from Customer Data. We use external models (not trained on Slack messages) to evaluate topic similarity, outputting numerical scores. Our global model only makes recommendations based on these numerical scores and non-Customer Data." I think this deserves more attention. For many tasks like contextual recommendations, you can get most of the way by using an off-the-shelf model, but then you get a floating-point output and need to translate it into a binary "show this to the user, yes or no?" decision. That could be a simple thresholding model "score > θ", but that single parameter still needs to be trained somehow. I wonder how many trainable parameters people objecting to Slack's training policy would be willing to accept.
• Stem0037 2y ago
  While Slack emphasizes that customers own their data, the default of Customer Data being used to train AI/ML models (even if aggregated and disassociated) may not align with all customers' expectations of data ownership and control.
• Ekaros 2y ago
  I would expect this from free service, but from paid service with non trivial cost... It seems insane... Maybe whole model of doing business is broken...
• tazer 2y ago
  Does this mean that even if you’re not using Slack AI they are training on our data? If not opted out?
• cess11 2y ago
  Don't see what they're paying their customers for this data. Is it mentioned elsewhere?
• OG_BeerMe 2y ago
  You can opt-out Contact us to opt out. If you want to exclude your Customer Data from Slack global models, you can opt out. To opt out, please have your Org or Workspace Owners or Primary Owner contact our Customer Experience team at feedback@slack.com with your Workspace/Org URL and the subject line “Slack Global model opt-out request.” We will process your request and respond once the opt out has been completed.
  • tirpen 2y ago
    If a company opts out, do you guarantee that all information from their instance that you have already used for training is somehow completely removed from the "global models" you have used it to train? If not, it's not really an opt-out, is it? The data remains compromised.
• vertex17 2y ago
  Products that have search, autocomplete, etc… use rankers that are trained on System Metadata to build the core experience. Microsoft Teams, Slack, etc… all do the same thing under the hood. Nobody is pumping the text into an LLM training. The examples make this very clear as well. Comment section here is divorced from reality.
• WhiteNoiz3 2y ago
  To add some nuance to this conversation, what they are using this for is Channel recommendations, Search results, Autocomplete, and Emoji suggestion and the model(s) they train are specific to your workspace (not shared between workspaces). All of which seem like they could be handled fairly privately using some sort of vector (embeddings) search. I am not defending Slack, and I can think of number of cases where training on slack messages could go very badly (ie, exposing private conversations, data leakage between workspaces, etc), but I think it helps to understand the context before reacting. Personally, I do think we need better controls over how our data is used and slack should be able to do better than "Email us to opt out".
  • wolfwyrd 2y ago
    The way it's written means this just isn't the case. They _MAY_ use it for what you have mentioned above. They explicitly say "...here are a few examples of improvements..." and "How Slack may use Customer Data" (emph mine). They also... may not? And use it for completely different things that can expose who knows what via prompt hacking.
    • WhiteNoiz3 2y ago
      Agreed, and that is my concern as well that if people get too comfortable with it then companies will keep pushing the bounds of what is acceptable. We will need companies to be transparent about ALL the things they are using our data for.
  • JackC 2y ago
    > the model(s) they train are specific to your workspace (not shared between workspaces) That's incorrect -- they're stating that they use your "messages, content, and files" to train "global models" that are used across workspaces. They're also stating that they ensure no private information can leak from workspace to workspace in this way. It's up to you if you're comfortable with that.
    • WhiteNoiz3 2y ago
      From the wording, it sounds like they are conscious of the potential for data leakage and have taken steps to avoid it. It really depends on how they are applying AI/ML. It can be done in a private way if you are thoughtful about how you do it. For example: Their channel recommendations: "We use external models (not trained on Slack messages) to evaluate topic similarity, outputting numerical scores. Our global model only makes recommendations based on these numerical scores and non-Customer Data" Meaning they use a non-slack trained model to generate embeddings for search. Then they apply a recommender system (which is mostly ML not an LLM). This sounds like it can be kept private. Search results: "We do this based on historical search results and previous engagements without learning from the underlying text of the search query, result, or proxy" Again, this is probably a combination of non-slack trained embeddings with machine learning algos based on engagement. This sounds like it can be kept private and team specific. autocomplete: "These suggestions are local and sourced from common public message phrases in the user’s workspace." I would be concerned about private messages being leaked via autocomplete, but if it's based on public messages specific to your team, that should be ok? Emoji suggestions: "using the content and sentiment of the message, the historic usage of the emoji [in your team]" Again, it sounds like they are using models for sentiment analysis (which they probably didn't train themselves and even if they did, don't really leak any training data) and some ML or other algos to pick common emojis specific to your team. To me these are all standard applications of NLP / ML that have been around for a long time.
• donfotto 2y ago
  > Emoji suggestion: Slack might suggest emoji reactions to messages using the content and sentiment of the message, the historic usage of the emoji and the frequency of use of the emoji in the team in various contexts. For instance, if [PARTY EMOJI] is a common reaction to celebratory messages in a particular channel, we will suggest that users react to new, similarly positive messages with [PARTY EMOJI]. Finally someone has figured out a sensible application for "AI". This is the future. Soon "AI" will have a similar connotation as "NFT".
  • deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  • apwell23 2y ago
    "leadership" at my company tallies emoji reactions to their shitty slack messages and not reacting with emojies over a period of time is considered a slight against them. I had to up my slack emoji game after joining my current employer
    • tifik 2y ago
      That sounds literally the same as "flare" from office space: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7SNEdjftno https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7SNEdjftno
    • berniedurfee 2y ago
      Yikes! Thats some pretty heavy insecurity signals from leadership. Please like us! Sad.
  • latexr 2y ago
    And it continues: > To do this while protecting Customer Data, we might use an external model (not trained on Slack messages) to classify the sentiment of the message. Our model would then suggest an emoji only considering the frequency with which a particular emoji has been associated with messages of that sentiment in that workspace. This is so stupid and needlessly complicated. And all it does is remove personality from messages, suggesting everyone conforms to the same reactions.
• jgalt212 2y ago
  I honestly don't know what special kind of idiot OKd this project. In any finance org, or finance dept of public cos, these chats will include material non public information. If such information leaks across internal Chinese walls or externally, Slack opens itself up to customer litigation and SEC enforcement actions.
• usernamevasile 2y ago
  they are not the only ones doing it; see how Meta is doing it: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/open-letter-meta-vasile-tiple-emqde?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_ios&utm_campaign=share_via https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/open-letter-meta-vasile-tiple...
• cleansy 2y ago
  If you send the opt out message to slack, take the second and include ceo@salesforce.com. Helps to get it done faster in most cases
• ENGNR 2y ago
  We’ll only use it for… choosing an emoji, and… a fun little internal only stock picker tool, that suggests to us some fun stocks to buy based on the anonymised real time inner monologue of hundreds of thousands of tech companies
• cowpig 2y ago
  To all the people asking about self-hosted alternatives, I can recommend zulip[0], and this article[1] explaining why. [0] https://zulip.com/ https://zulip.com/ [1] https://monadical.com/posts/how-to-make-remote-work-part-two-zulip.html# https://monadical.com/posts/how-to-make-remote-work-part-two...
• hyping9 2y ago
  Imagine thinking content you post online is NOT used to train AI data, in 2024. Seriously, just imagine for a second being that befuddled and out of touch.
• Dwedit 2y ago
  Unlike public web data, slack data is not public. This is a problem.
• arshakarap 2y ago
  That's risky. Zoom wouldn't approve.
• mvkel 2y ago
  How does one technically opt-out after model training is completed? You can't exactly go into the model and "erase" parts of the corpus post-hoc. Like when you send an email to feedback@slack.com with that perfect subject like (jeez, really?) what exactly does the customer support rep do on their end to opt you out? Now is definitely the time to get/stay loud. If it dies down, the precedent has been set.
• lars_francke 2y ago
  I contacted support to opt out.. Here is the answer. "Hi there, Thank you for reaching out to Slack support. Your opt-out request has been completed. For clarity, Slack has platform-level machine learning models for things like channel and emoji recommendations and search results. We do not build or train these models in such a way that they could learn, memorize, or be able to reproduce some part of customer data. Our published policies cover those here (https://slack.com/trust/data-management/privacy-principles https://slack.com/trust/data-management/privacy-principles), and as shared above your opt out request has been processed. Slack AI is a separately purchased add-on that uses Large Language Models (LLMs) but does not train those LLMs on customer data. Slack AI uses LLMs hosted directly within Slack’s AWS infrastructure, so that customer data remains in-house and is not shared with any LLM provider. This ensures that Customer Data stays in that organization’s control and exclusively for that organization’s use. You can read more about how we’ve built Slack AI to be secure and private here: https://slack.engineering/how-we-built-slack-ai-to-be-secure-and-private/ https://slack.engineering/how-we-built-slack-ai-to-be-secure.... Kind regards, Best regards,"
  • ssahoo 2y ago
    So in otherwords: we feed our AI your data. We share that with no one else. (Wait until our next TOS update)
  • goldcaddy77 2y ago
    I got the same canned response. Followed up asking for more details and got crickets.
    • theshrike79 2y ago
      It's not like L1 support can make official statements on their own initiative. That was written by someone higher up and they're just copypasting it to panicked customers.
  • mikl 2y ago
    Just completely disingenuous that they still pretend to care about customer privacy after rolling this out with silent-opt-in and without adding an easy opt-out option in the Slack admin panel.
• deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
• laurex 2y ago
  We will only see more of this as time goes on and there’s so little impetus for companies to do anything that respects privacy when this data is power and freely accessible by virtue of owning the servers. If you haven’t read Technofuedalism, the to;dr is that what we once saw as tools for our entertainment or convenience now own our inputs and use us as free labour, and operate at scales where we have little to no power to protect our interests. For a quick summary: https://www.wired.com/story/yanis-varoufakis-technofeudalism-interview/ https://www.wired.com/story/yanis-varoufakis-technofeudalism...
• DataDaemon 2y ago
  Sorry, don't trust them anymore. Trust is everything. Work is done. Thank you and goodbye.
• cameldrv 2y ago
  It’s very difficult to ensure no data leakage, even for something like an Emoji prediction model. If you can try a large number of inputs and see what the suggested emoji is, that’s going to give you information about the training set. I wouldn’t be surprised to see a trading company or two pop up trying to exploit this to get insider information.
• tivert 2y ago
  IMHO people should create "googlebomb" channels to mess with their training, maybe with the goal to get their autocomplete to offer offensive or nonsensical suggestions. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_bombing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_bombing
• theGeatZhopa 2y ago
  in Europe, it is be possible to demand the clearance of all the user's data. It would be a beginning.
• ajbeach22 2y ago
  This feels like a corporate greed play, on what should be a relatively simple chat application. Slack has quickly become just another enterprise solution in search of shareholder value at expensive of data privacy. Regulation of these companies should be more apparent to people, but sadly, is not. I would recommend https://mattermost.com https://mattermost.com as an alternative.
• 1vuio0pswjnm7 2y ago
  The only way customers will know they can opt-out is if they read this "Privacy Principles" page?
• niutech 2y ago
  It's high time to ditch Slack for slimmer, faster and privacy-respecting open source alternatives: https://itsfoss.com/open-source-slack-alternative/ https://itsfoss.com/open-source-slack-alternative/
• eccoolidge 2y ago
  I wonder whether something like this could be used to address the problem? https://www.tonic.ai/textual https://www.tonic.ai/textual
• yx2zhang 2y ago
  fake news
• yx2zhang 2y ago
  Fake News
• theflyinghorse 2y ago
  This is a direct threat to my startup business. Who's to say they wouldn't sell our process as an AI tool after a few TOS changes?
• CodeWriter23 2y ago
  What did they think was going to happen? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • rvnx 2y ago
    Basically don't give your sensitive data to a third-party if you don't want prying eyes on it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • ant6n 2y ago
    Wasn’t there a big discussion on HN when Slack changed their privacy policy to say that they will steal all private conversations and use them for AI and some such?
  • IshKebab 2y ago
    Not this. It's a pretty crazy policy. As far as I know no other major tech company (Google, Microsoft, Amazon, etc.) uses their customers' private data to train public AI because that would be suicidal.
    • CodeWriter23 2y ago
      I think you are ignoring the most fundamental fact of the Tech Industry. Regardless of what they may say, they break laws, regulations and societal norms in the name of disruption, and have a tendency to lobby to have their abhorrent behavior legalized after the fact. If one is honest about it, one can plainly see the outcomes this kind of behavior has for tech is hardly ever negative. “Suicidal” though it may seem the just outcome, is hardly in alignment with reality.
      • IshKebab 2y ago
        Let's wait and see. I imagine Slack is going to backpedal on this pretty quickly. > Regardless of what they may say, they break laws, regulations and societal norms in the name of disruption, and have a tendency to lobby to have their abhorrent behavior legalized after the fact. This isn't illegal though. Or at least not clearly illegal. It's suicidal because customers are going to absolutely hate it, not because it's illegal. My company is moving from Google to Microsoft over imaginary security concerns (despite the fact that Microsot has been hacked far more than Google!). Imagine if there are real deliberate issues like this. (Fortunately we don't use Slack.)
• matt3210 2y ago
  I’m building a state of the art aircraft. I won’t allow my companies slack messages answering questions from the competition
• OptionOfT 2y ago
  What happened to "when you're not paying, you're not the customer, you're the product.". Here people are clearly paying, and yet, slowly that is being eroded as well.
  • slater 2y ago
    Never underestimate how imaginative the "numbers must always go up!!1~"-brained folks can be.
• gdiamos 2y ago
  Does it count as a public disclosure if you disclose an invention to a slack AI? The Wikipedia definition says: “a communication to one or more members of the public”. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_disclosure https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_disclosure
  • staticautomatic 2y ago
    Slack itself isn’t “the public” and if you disclosed on a public channel, the fact that it was via Slack would be immaterial.
• wslh 2y ago
  So, we are paying for Slack and we are the product?
• anonyados 2y ago
  Ha, the perfect embodiment of how capitalism works. Use public or private data in this case to build models to profit. Even in a paid service where your data is supposed to be private, you are not even in control of how your data is used.