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DuckDuckGo AI Chat
- NayamAmarshe 2y agoPretty cool! I use Brave Search (https://search.brave.com https://search.brave.com) and it too got AI results a few months ago. They're quite helpful!
- olvy0 2y agoFine, but this is a full chat interface rather than AI search results.
- jpierce_coder 2y agoWhile Brave Search does include AI search results, they also include Leo in their browser which is a full chat interface as well. Baked right into the browser and sidebar.
- tiptup300 2y agoFor clarity it is not a local llm.
- beretguy 2y agoI’m glad they gave an option to turn it off for people who don’t care about AI.
- dougb5 2y ago"Welcome to DuckDuckGo AI Chat! This chat session is powered by OpenAI’s GPT-3.5 Turbo. All of your chats here are private, and are never stored by DuckDuckGo or used to train AI models." Wait, they are sent to OpenAI but they are also "private"? What am I missing here?
- mephitix 2y agoI guess they mean that the chat conversations are not persisted in a DDG database. A bit misleading IMO
- divbzero 2y agoThe messaging could be more clear, but is this substantively different from how search queries are handled when DuckDuckGo forwards them to Bing? Bing doesn’t know who made the search but could log the query itself.
- ziddoap 2y ago>is this substantively different from how search queries are handled when DuckDuckGo forwards them to Bing? No, it is the exact same business model but applied to AI chat instead of search.
- tartrate 2y agoIn other words, a lot of fuss about nothing.
- dougb5 2y agoWell it's a big deal to me. OpenAI have not conducted themselves in a way that makes me want to share my search intents with them, and I don't care if they or DDG tell me that what I tell them "won't be used to train AI models".
- ziddoap 2y ago>Additionally, all metadata that contains personal information (for example, your IP address) is obfuscated from underlying model providers (for example, OpenAI, Anthropic). >In addition, we have agreements in place with all model providers that further limit how they can use data from these anonymous requests that includes not using Prompts and Outputs to develop or improve their models as well as deleting all information received within 30 days. That is what they mean by private.
- danpalmer 2y agoWhat's the business model on this? GPT3.5 and Claude 1.2 aren't as expensive as other models, but they're not cheap. Is this going to get pulled later, monetised, etc? It's concerning in general to see so many companies throwing so much money at this without business models. The big names mostly have either premium tiers or paid API usage, that's fine, but DDG/Brave/BingChat/Arc/etc are all just giving away money, and when the music stops it's possible consumers will be left high and dry.
- maltalex 2y agoIt'll probably not be free forever. Access to the models could become part of their "Pro" offering - https://duckduckgo.com/pro https://duckduckgo.com/pro
- veggieroll 2y agoI really wish they named the paid service DuckDuckPro
- thih9 2y agoAs a user I dislike this kind of temporary free products. It feels dishonest and unreliable to me.
- maltalex 2y agoIt's just a theory. I don't know where they're going with this.
- panqueca 2y agoI didn't know they have a "Pro" offer. I wish Kagi has something similar. It's quite expensive paying 10 bucks for search results only.
- salad-tycoon 2y agoYeah but we’re getting t shirts.
- derwiki 2y agoIt’s probably table stakes for a search engine at this point. For me though, they all came too late, and I am mostly rewired to go to chatgpt first. (Yes, chatgpt can be wrong, but for things like recipes, song lyrics, etc it’s never wrong enough to matter)
- marban 2y agoIt would be best for DDG to sell before they are steamrolled from multiple fronts.
- Zambyte 2y agoWho would buy it? It seems like the kind of thing where they would lose all the people who use it if they sold to just about anyone who could buy it.
- dazc 2y agoMost people would not care, once a brand name is established it can sell out and continue to profit for at least 20 years or more. Proof is just about any footwear or fashion brand you care to think of.
- Zambyte 2y agoPeople specifically use DDG for the sense of privacy they have established, and that works be shattered by a buyout. People who use DDG are savvy enough to change their default search engine, and therefore would not have trouble doing it again.
- dazc 2y agoThe people I know who use DDG do so because there are no ads, nothing more. I agree, the original cohort of users may fit your description though.
- rodolphoarruda 2y agoI didn't know Claude until I saw it as an option for DDG chat model. What caught my attention was the tagline "instant". Interesting. I decided to give it a try with expectations to see answers coming up almost instantly. And they really did. I'm enjoying it so far.
- jasonjmcghee 2y agoFor what it's worth, Claude instant is part of Anthropic's first generation of models. There have been two more since then. Today (3rd gen) they have haiku, sonnet, opus. Worth checking out. Opus is competitive (many say better) than GPT-4
- yegg 2y agoWe plan to upgrade Claude Instant to Claude 3 Haiku in the coming weeks.
- Alifatisk 2y agoIs Claude 3 Opus a possibility?
- rodolphoarruda 2y agoSounds great. I'll keep an eye on it. I'm assuming Haiku performs better than Instant, thus the upgrade. I guess I'll be super impressed in the coming weeks.
- jrmg 2y agoBeing DDG, with its reputation, I’m sure these chats really are never saved - but the wording in the sidebar: never saved by us, and not used to train AI models could make the more paranoid believe that they could be saved by DDG’s partners - from very directly (Anthropic saves chats with Claude) to indirectly (all channeled through a shady arms-length subsidiary).
- yegg 2y agoSee https://duckduckgo.com/aichat/privacy-terms https://duckduckgo.com/aichat/privacy-terms "We do not save or store your Prompts or Outputs. Additionally, all metadata that contains personal information (for example, your IP address) is obfuscated from underlying model providers (for example, OpenAI, Anthropic). If you submit personal information in your Prompts, it may be reproduced in the Outputs, but no one can tell whether it was you personally submitting the Prompts or someone else. We have agreements with model providers to further protect your privacy. As noted above, we call model providers on your behalf so your personal information (for example, IP address) is not exposed to them. In addition, we have agreements in place with all model providers that further limit how they can use data from these anonymous requests that includes not using Prompts and Outputs to develop or improve their models as well as deleting all information received within 30 days."
- bevekspldnw 2y agoThat’s a pretty disingenuous framing. Obviously the content of the communication- what you ask the chatbot - can totally be personally identifiable, and is stored. You aren’t providing communications content privacy, you’re providing a meta data proxy which is not remotely the same.
- lxgr 2y agoTrue, but it's also the best possible thing until they can run an LLM in your browser (or maybe we figure out how to do homomorphic encryption of neural networks). What else should they call it? I suppose "anonymous" could work (i.e. they only know about you what you tell them).
- Imnimo 2y agoI was expecting something where the AI chat could run DDG web searches. If it's just a mirror of GPT 3.5/Claude, why do I need DDG to be involved?
- ziddoap 2y ago>Additionally, all metadata that contains personal information (for example, your IP address) is obfuscated from underlying model providers (for example, OpenAI, Anthropic). They are acting as a proxy to increase privacy, which is pretty much their entire business model.
- hedora 2y agoTest query: Buy bulk pvc in cheyenne, wy FastGPT from kagi recommends national chains, a local plumbing supply store or two, and a specific facebook market page. All of these have hyperlinks. DDG just gives generic advice about national chains. I think the difference is that Kagi built a RAG model out of a web crawl.
- tantalor 2y agoWhat does "bulk pvc" even mean. Pipe? Fittings? Tubing? Sheets? Fabric?
- hedora 2y agoThe first three, usually. PVC is extremely common in plumbing and drainage, and there the type of pipe is usually specified by material type, not use case. PVC cloth is less common, and I'd guess you'd qualify with a use case. ("pvc cloth for sewing"; it's often called "vinyl" instead). Anyway, it's an intentionally hard query. I tried "tourism in mountain view, ca" first. They both do fine (though DDG doesn't provide links), since there's enough on the internet about that for the base GPT-3.5 model to recall it without additional context.
- ravetcofx 2y agoIt takes effort to integrate large language models with RAG or vector databases in an application rather than just slapping a chatbot on
- littlestymaar 2y agoPretty disapointed that this is just a proxy in front of Claude and ChatGPT, I thought it would be some kind of DDG-hosted llama3 8B since the quality is now good enough with a 8B model.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- yegg 2y agoWe plan to add more models over time.
- littlestymaar 2y agoMy complaint isn't about more models in fact, it's about not depending on OpenAI (and not feeding them with data and money), so I would rather have less models (just llama3) rather than more
- ricardo81 2y agoInteresting they use the word 'private' in their strapline, after all they frame themselves as private search albeit they don't have their own search engine and market themselves as a privacy search engine. Their index is essentially Bing and they're hosted on Microsoft IPs. So not exactly ideal.
- binarymax 2y agoBut none of your personal details are sent to Bing? Sure they get some SERPS from them, but DDG abstracts in front of Bing's API using your query without passing your data.
- JAlexoid 2y agoThe privacy comes from the lack of tracking your interests and tailoring the search results to the preexisting interests. They just don't collect the private data in the first place.
- ricardo81 2y agoThat's one way of looking at it. Another way is that your PII like your IP hitting a MS server and searches being returned for that searcher are heavily correlated. They can't serve results like https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ftsa&q=shops+near+me&ia=web https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ftsa&q=shops+near+me&ia=web and return shops within miles of me without passing that info on. IIRC they pass the /24 of your IP, but all the same, not much better.
- JAlexoid 2y agoNo, your IP is not "you". It's most definitely not your PII, per se. It is PII when used in conjunction with other data(even under fairly strict GPDR rules). The party storing the IP must have means of associating that IP with you, not simply "a city". I mean... I can write an anonymous letter, drop it into the mailbox of my local post office and there will be a stamp of where and when that letter was mailed from. Is a post office stamp now my personal information?
- compootr 2y agohow is it free?
- add-sub-mul-div 2y agoSame reason streaming was cheap until it wasn't. Give it away now, enshittify later.
- _pdp_ 2y agoPrivate meaning that they don't store the chat sessions? We don't store them either unless you really want to. Am I missing something?
- bo1024 2y agoAnd they have agreements with the providers not to use your chats for training, and to delete them after 30 days (I believe).
- kernal 2y agoWhat is a women? GPT-3.5 Turbo A woman is an adult female human being. Claude 1.2 Instant I do not have a definitive definition of what constitutes a woman. Gender identity is a complex topic with personal aspects.
- malfist 2y agoHacker News isn't the place for inflammatory political speech unrelated to the topic at hand.
- kernal 2y agoSo you're saying the results are political?
- ein0p 2y agoYour own post constitutes "inflammatory political speech".
- ninnip 2y agoIt really does show the absurdity of the current discourse around sex and gender when the definition of woman is considered to be "inflammatory political speech".
- fabiofzero 2y agoMost people use DDG to escape the general search enshittification of Google and Bing, so this feels like a very bad idea. AI chats are basically the ultimate manifestation of the enshittified internet. Also, who needs yet another AI chat powered by the exact same technology of all other AI chats? The race to the bottom is already here and the bottom is clearly visible (at least for now – the bottom will fall off eventually).
- colesantiago 2y agoAgreed, the fact that DDG AI chat uses Anthropic is a massive red flag. Anthropic is owned by Google through investments. https://www.forbes.com/sites/qai/2023/10/31/google-invests-in-anthropic-for-2-billion-as-ai-race-heats-up/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/qai/2023/10/31/google-invests-i...
- dsr_ 2y agoWho, exactly, wanted to ask a search engine questions that would be answered by bullshit? I quote: what is the stoichiometric ratio between 2NO2 and N2O4 The stoichiometric ratio between nitrogen dioxide (NO2) and dinitrogen tetroxide (N2O4) is 1:1. This means that for every one molecule of nitrogen dioxide (NO2) that reacts, one molecule of dinitrogen tetroxide (N2O4) is formed. The equilibrium reaction between nitrogen dioxide and dinitrogen tetroxide can be represented as: 2NO2 ⇌ N2O4 In this reaction, two molecules of nitrogen dioxide can form one molecule of dinitrogen tetroxide, and vice versa.
- yegg 2y agoAI Chat is separate from the search engine, providing anonymous access to popular models. On the search engine we have DuckAssist, which is currently grounded in Wikipedia (more sources coming): https://duckduckgo.com/?q=what+is+the+stoichiometric+ratio+between+2NO2+and+N2O4&atb=v311-1-wb&ia=web https://duckduckgo.com/?q=what+is+the+stoichiometric+ratio+b...
- dsr_ 2y agoYou didn't answer the question. Who asked for the bullshit to be added?
- fransje26 2y agoIt also happily fails the "Name 5 countries starting and ending with the same letter " test, with 0/5 using Claude..
- cdme 2y agoPretty easy to block the DOM node with my adblocker.
- settsu 2y agoAside from the potential for privacy issues anti-thetical to DDG's own stated goals, another problem is these chat AIs can just be inaccurate, if not just outright incorrect, on the simplest topics. Something which would seem to be a risk to DuckDuckGo's reputation as a search provider.
- ArunRaja 2y agoInspite of occasional bluff, value provided by AI/LLM are huge to miss off.
- mostlysimilar 2y agoGod damn it people. I just want to search the web. You aren't doing anything meaningful by giving me yet another fuzzy robot question machine. Just let me search the web. Queries in, web pages out.
- doublerabbit 2y agoThat now costs $10 (Kagi) Complex AI for free, basic search for a fee!
- mostlysimilar 2y agoI'm a current Kagi subscriber and agree the search is excellent. Unfortunately Kagi is also wasting their time on AI bullshit, so I suspect it's a short-lived oasis.
- jantissler 2y agoI became a Kagi subscriber mostly for the "AI bullshit", especially the Summarizer.
- nikolay 2y agoI also didn't use Kagi AI until I found out that I get a better deal with them for the rare cases I need to use AI.
- dkersten 2y agoAgreed. Additionally, I don’t actually want to talk to my computer for most use cases. When I do, then I’ll use a dedicated service like ChatGPT, but for most other take, I really really don’t want a chat interface. I wish these companies would focus on making their core product better instead of spending resources on AI chat interfaces.
- mistrial9 2y agomanagement and investors wants AI chat; coincidentally it appeals to the lazy and less-intellectual
- ricardo81 2y agoTried a few searches, no sources listed. I don't buy into a future where I'm spoon-fed an answer with no way to verify it. There surely must be a symbiotic relationship between people putting the effort to put content online vs language models monetising it.
- shivz45 2y agoWhy, just be a search engine
- a_c 2y agoI have been using DDG as my primary search engine for several years. Their search results is bad now. Not sure if it is deteriorating or it was always bad but I put up with it. DDG could have adopted the Kagi way, let users rank their result, or just genuinely improve the search result. And no, LLM won't help us as far as factual information is concerned.
- mdaniel 2y agoHave you been using the feedback button, located (unfortunately) in the bottom right corner of the results page? I've been told they are read by actual humans I'm with you that the results are sometimes just comically bad, but there are a lot of 80/20 products in my life, and they do offer the bangs to rerun the search on an alternate engine
- elorant 2y agoKagi search has something similar, and quite functional. https://kagi.com/fastgpt https://kagi.com/fastgpt
- log101 2y agoimho waste of engineering time…
- tredre3 2y agoCome on, this is the kind of project that could be done by an intern in a day or two. Not much of a waste and it's nice to be able to access models without login or history.
- cube2222 2y agoI tried this, and it seems like this is just raw AI chat, no search? I do extremely like the Kagi fastgpt feature, which lets you end your search query with a question mark, and above the search results you'll get an AI answer, that is based on the content of the top 4-8 results. It's very fast and provides citations to the links it used, so it feels quite trustworthy (or at least as trustworthy as the sources it cites), which means I often use the feature and am happy with the response I get.
- nikolay 2y agoI stopped using DuckDuckGo long ago until they stopped being what they were supposed to be. Obviously, I'm not alone in this, as they are looking for financial means to stay afloat!
- teddysc 2y agoUTF chars not displayed correctly.
- nipperkinfeet 2y agoI stopped using DDG right after they forced "Explore our features" to be enabled all the time.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- hnarn 2y agoThank you for providing the first AI “chat bot” with sane, privacy respecting defaults.
- demonthewolf66 2y ago[flagged]