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> Very hard for me to understand why, in a world of Google docs, anyone would want to deal with the bloated mess that is ms office. For knowledge workers who l

> Very hard for me to understand why, in a world of Google docs, anyone would want to deal with the bloated mess that is ms office. For knowledge workers who live in these tools, the difference is stark. Even for companies who've standardized on Google Workspace or Apple iWork, advanced users will need Microsoft Office.

worldsayshi 3y ago
What features in Office are essential for those users that you don't get from Google? If you're talking about Excel I can imagine there are such features but not so much in other apps.
- benhurmarcel 3y ago
  Google Docs can't automatically number headings, figures, and tables. It also can't automatically update cross-references ("see Figure 3 in Section 3.4"). Some colleagues have issues because it can't handle very large documents too (above a few hundred pages).
- ravelfan 3y ago
  I hate Microsoft products in general but Excel is just good. It is not one feature but the whole package as a system. It is basically the opposite of most MS products. There is not one feature that stands out as to why I hate Word, it is the summation of all the little things I hate about it that is the issue.
- pphysch 3y ago
  I think it's less about feature parity and more that the users have spent tens of thousands of hours in MS office and don't want to relearn all the shortcuts and menus and subtle behaviors -- muscle memory stuff.
  - ishtanbul 3y ago
    All the plugins for excel, word and powerpoint integration. And we have to be able to send attachments with actual files, not links. Law firms and banks are pretty set in their ways here. It has to be office and windows. Google sheets doesn’t remotely compare to excel for serious financial modeling.
- jeremyjh 3y ago
  It’s always mainly about Excel, but some people are really set on Outlook, too.
  - bombcar 3y ago
    From my experience it is Excel first, PowerPoint second, followed by Outlook and, last, Word. The order varies depending on what you do, each can become absolutely critical.
  - jasonjayr 3y ago
    Oh boy. Outlook users are in for a surprise with "New Outlook" is forced on them in the near future. Microsoft has been pushing and warning about this change for some time ....
    - Semaphor 3y ago
      I use outlook for work mails and tried new outlook for a short while. It’s like an alpha version, it’s not even close to feature parity, a pure showcase for a new design. If it ever becomes the only version, I’m switching to thunderbird.
      - PawgerZ 3y ago
        I used the default Mail Microsoft Store app for the past 2 years at work. The past 6 months, it's been telling me to move to Outlook desktop app. A couple weeks ago, it wouldn't allow me to use the Microsoft Store app anymore, so I installed the desktop version, tried to login, and got an error message that my account would only work on the webapp. Set up Thunderbird on my work desktop that day, and haven't looked back. Wish I would have way sooner, to be honest.
        Semaphor 3y ago
        You inspired me, decided to set up Thunderbird and give it a week or so to see how it feels ;)
- xw38011 3y ago
  > What features in Office are essential for those users that you don't get from Google? Backward compatibility with existing documents that are already in Word. Also, for those knowledge workers who aren’t in tech, the high likelihood that the recipient can open the document with correct formatting.
  - Ziggy_Zaggy 3y ago
    ...why not just print to PDF then since all browswer support PDF?
    - tremon 3y ago
      ...since then they will send you back a scan of a printed-out copy of said PDF in which they scribbled their comments and modifications with pen and marker?
- maxcoder4 3y ago
  I am exclusively Google office user, but... Out of the top of my head: * Google docs are uglier than Microsoft word documents. This matters when I prepare an offer that I want to send to a client, and it should look good. * Google slides are hideous, and the only reason I get away with using them is because programmers (including me) have no taste[1] * Related to the looks, I sometimes buy paid document templates that I can use to format my offers. They often have an option to download a docx file, but it's complex through that you can't important it to Google docs without breaking it completely. * Word/Libreoffice works offline (maybe docs with serviceworkers too? It never worked for me when I needed it). * You can use word to generate documents using a template, don't think it's possible with Google docs * Macros are not supported in Google docs And I'm a complete noob when it comes to document editing software and actively avoid it. I can only imagine how much powerusers miss. [1] https://medium.com/@laurajavier/google-slides-is-actually-hilarious-83c1ced857ee https://medium.com/@laurajavier/google-slides-is-actually-hi...
  - elevatedastalt 3y ago
    Is it just about the default font? Most office workers have 0 sense of aesthetics and sometimes official guidelines actively make things ugly (like forcing fonts like Times New Roman on everyone). Or the cutesy Calibri on official notices.
  - WWLink 3y ago
    MS Word templates are one of the most awful things I've ever messed with. I had a fun time using them with pandoc to produce autogenerated word documents. ARGH! The nightmares! We should just all get off our butts and learn LaTeX! Not that I have. ahhahahaha.
  - lokar 3y ago
    Word is also ugly. When I care what it looks like I use LaTeX.
- lern_too_spel 3y ago
  https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/linear-format-equations-using-unicodemath-and-latex-in-word-2e00618d-b1fd-49d8-8cb4-8d17f25754f8 https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/linear-format-equ...
- francisdavey 3y ago
  As a commercial lawyer, I often have to exchange drafts with another lawyer somewhere else. Almost everyone will accept Word, far fewer are happy with a Google doc. Obviously I can generate a Word document from Google, but that isn't quite the same. A specific problem in this scenario is tracked changes. Google has a history/version control but it does not map particularly well onto Word's tracked changes, which the other party will understand and is likely to want to use. Passing things into and out of Google will often result in loss of useful information like that. Personally: Word is the absolute best piece of software for dealing with numbered lists that is easily available. In many ways it is terrible of course, but it is less terrible than anything else. Getting numbering right is important. Google has gotten better. It used to be very bad at larger and more complicated documents. But it still doesn't have all I need to write a really good contract (at least by my standards of "really good").
shrimp_emoji 3y ago
In that case, they can use FreeOffice, whose office suite is indistinguishable from MS Office and works on Mac and Linux! (Granted, I say that as someone who very much does not live in those tools except as a rare hardship imposed by normies society.)
- UberFly 3y ago
  Suggestions based on ignorance of the product isn't the best place to start.
  - bruce511 3y ago
    This. Believe me, Office and Office clones are very distinguishable. It's like saying a Macdonalds burger is indistinguishable from a Gordon Ramsey burger. They may both be food, but they are very much not the same thing. There's a reason people use Office. Pretending that reason does not exist does not make the argument for switching better.
    - gitaarik 3y ago
      Well probably the reason most people use it is because they are ignorant about the alternatives and ignorant about the vendor lock-in character of M§.
    - dmbche 3y ago
      I've been using libreoffice for maybe 10 years now? I don't remember what I'm missing, could you name one or two killer features of ms office?
      - bruce511 3y ago
        You're happy with what you are using, so that's great, and I'm not knocking that. But the difference is not 'killer features". The difference is in the million small details and polish. The integrations, formats, UI, workflow, things it just "gets right" that I don't even know its doing. I try Libre Office every once in a while. But each time I try it just feels old and clunky. It's all in the tiny details that add up to the overall experience. Clearly you're not missing anything since you're happy with what you have. But going from Office to LibreOffice is painful. Not bullet-wound painful, more like thousand-paper-cuts painful.
UberFly 3y ago
This is true. Among other things, I do a lot of label printing and the tools in MS Word are miles more mature. You get these same types of responses when people list off all the alternatives to Photoshop. Just not the same.
- HKH2 3y ago
  Well it really depends on how you use the programs you are comparing.
davchana 3y ago
Yes, my pet peeve is printing as pdf. You can control line thickness, size, placement of row borders to pixel perfect in Excel & it will get printed to pdf or paper exactly as it is. But not from Google Sheets or Excel Web, even same excel sheel imported in these & then printed will have slight difference in what you see on screen and what gets printed. I understand its because of browsers limitations to place stuff on pixel scale.
7thaccount 3y ago
Mostly because of network effects and wanting software that will be supported for another three decades potentially and can open my document long-term. Google cancels products all the time and has practically no vision.

worldsayshi 3y ago

What features in Office are essential for those users that you don't get from Google? If you're talking about Excel I can imagine there are such features but not so much in other apps.

benhurmarcel 3y ago
Google Docs can't automatically number headings, figures, and tables. It also can't automatically update cross-references ("see Figure 3 in Section 3.4"). Some colleagues have issues because it can't handle very large documents too (above a few hundred pages).
ravelfan 3y ago
I hate Microsoft products in general but Excel is just good. It is not one feature but the whole package as a system. It is basically the opposite of most MS products. There is not one feature that stands out as to why I hate Word, it is the summation of all the little things I hate about it that is the issue.
pphysch 3y ago
I think it's less about feature parity and more that the users have spent tens of thousands of hours in MS office and don't want to relearn all the shortcuts and menus and subtle behaviors -- muscle memory stuff.
- ishtanbul 3y ago
  All the plugins for excel, word and powerpoint integration. And we have to be able to send attachments with actual files, not links. Law firms and banks are pretty set in their ways here. It has to be office and windows. Google sheets doesn’t remotely compare to excel for serious financial modeling.
jeremyjh 3y ago
It’s always mainly about Excel, but some people are really set on Outlook, too.
- bombcar 3y ago
  From my experience it is Excel first, PowerPoint second, followed by Outlook and, last, Word. The order varies depending on what you do, each can become absolutely critical.
- jasonjayr 3y ago
  Oh boy. Outlook users are in for a surprise with "New Outlook" is forced on them in the near future. Microsoft has been pushing and warning about this change for some time ....
  - Semaphor 3y ago
    I use outlook for work mails and tried new outlook for a short while. It’s like an alpha version, it’s not even close to feature parity, a pure showcase for a new design. If it ever becomes the only version, I’m switching to thunderbird.
    - PawgerZ 3y ago
      I used the default Mail Microsoft Store app for the past 2 years at work. The past 6 months, it's been telling me to move to Outlook desktop app. A couple weeks ago, it wouldn't allow me to use the Microsoft Store app anymore, so I installed the desktop version, tried to login, and got an error message that my account would only work on the webapp. Set up Thunderbird on my work desktop that day, and haven't looked back. Wish I would have way sooner, to be honest.
      - Semaphor 3y ago
        You inspired me, decided to set up Thunderbird and give it a week or so to see how it feels ;)
xw38011 3y ago
> What features in Office are essential for those users that you don't get from Google? Backward compatibility with existing documents that are already in Word. Also, for those knowledge workers who aren’t in tech, the high likelihood that the recipient can open the document with correct formatting.
- Ziggy_Zaggy 3y ago
  ...why not just print to PDF then since all browswer support PDF?
  - tremon 3y ago
    ...since then they will send you back a scan of a printed-out copy of said PDF in which they scribbled their comments and modifications with pen and marker?
maxcoder4 3y ago
I am exclusively Google office user, but... Out of the top of my head: * Google docs are uglier than Microsoft word documents. This matters when I prepare an offer that I want to send to a client, and it should look good. * Google slides are hideous, and the only reason I get away with using them is because programmers (including me) have no taste[1] * Related to the looks, I sometimes buy paid document templates that I can use to format my offers. They often have an option to download a docx file, but it's complex through that you can't important it to Google docs without breaking it completely. * Word/Libreoffice works offline (maybe docs with serviceworkers too? It never worked for me when I needed it). * You can use word to generate documents using a template, don't think it's possible with Google docs * Macros are not supported in Google docs And I'm a complete noob when it comes to document editing software and actively avoid it. I can only imagine how much powerusers miss. [1] https://medium.com/@laurajavier/google-slides-is-actually-hilarious-83c1ced857ee https://medium.com/@laurajavier/google-slides-is-actually-hi...
- elevatedastalt 3y ago
  Is it just about the default font? Most office workers have 0 sense of aesthetics and sometimes official guidelines actively make things ugly (like forcing fonts like Times New Roman on everyone). Or the cutesy Calibri on official notices.
- WWLink 3y ago
  MS Word templates are one of the most awful things I've ever messed with. I had a fun time using them with pandoc to produce autogenerated word documents. ARGH! The nightmares! We should just all get off our butts and learn LaTeX! Not that I have. ahhahahaha.
- lokar 3y ago
  Word is also ugly. When I care what it looks like I use LaTeX.
lern_too_spel 3y ago
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/linear-format-equations-using-unicodemath-and-latex-in-word-2e00618d-b1fd-49d8-8cb4-8d17f25754f8 https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/linear-format-equ...
francisdavey 3y ago
As a commercial lawyer, I often have to exchange drafts with another lawyer somewhere else. Almost everyone will accept Word, far fewer are happy with a Google doc. Obviously I can generate a Word document from Google, but that isn't quite the same. A specific problem in this scenario is tracked changes. Google has a history/version control but it does not map particularly well onto Word's tracked changes, which the other party will understand and is likely to want to use. Passing things into and out of Google will often result in loss of useful information like that. Personally: Word is the absolute best piece of software for dealing with numbered lists that is easily available. In many ways it is terrible of course, but it is less terrible than anything else. Getting numbering right is important. Google has gotten better. It used to be very bad at larger and more complicated documents. But it still doesn't have all I need to write a really good contract (at least by my standards of "really good").

shrimp_emoji 3y ago

In that case, they can use FreeOffice, whose office suite is indistinguishable from MS Office and works on Mac and Linux! (Granted, I say that as someone who very much does not live in those tools except as a rare hardship imposed by normies society.)

UberFly 3y ago
Suggestions based on ignorance of the product isn't the best place to start.
- bruce511 3y ago
  This. Believe me, Office and Office clones are very distinguishable. It's like saying a Macdonalds burger is indistinguishable from a Gordon Ramsey burger. They may both be food, but they are very much not the same thing. There's a reason people use Office. Pretending that reason does not exist does not make the argument for switching better.
  - gitaarik 3y ago
    Well probably the reason most people use it is because they are ignorant about the alternatives and ignorant about the vendor lock-in character of M§.
  - dmbche 3y ago
    I've been using libreoffice for maybe 10 years now? I don't remember what I'm missing, could you name one or two killer features of ms office?
    - bruce511 3y ago
      You're happy with what you are using, so that's great, and I'm not knocking that. But the difference is not 'killer features". The difference is in the million small details and polish. The integrations, formats, UI, workflow, things it just "gets right" that I don't even know its doing. I try Libre Office every once in a while. But each time I try it just feels old and clunky. It's all in the tiny details that add up to the overall experience. Clearly you're not missing anything since you're happy with what you have. But going from Office to LibreOffice is painful. Not bullet-wound painful, more like thousand-paper-cuts painful.

UberFly 3y ago

This is true. Among other things, I do a lot of label printing and the tools in MS Word are miles more mature. You get these same types of responses when people list off all the alternatives to Photoshop. Just not the same.

HKH2 3y ago
Well it really depends on how you use the programs you are comparing.

davchana 3y ago

Yes, my pet peeve is printing as pdf. You can control line thickness, size, placement of row borders to pixel perfect in Excel & it will get printed to pdf or paper exactly as it is. But not from Google Sheets or Excel Web, even same excel sheel imported in these & then printed will have slight difference in what you see on screen and what gets printed. I understand its because of browsers limitations to place stuff on pixel scale.

7thaccount 3y ago

Mostly because of network effects and wanting software that will be supported for another three decades potentially and can open my document long-term. Google cancels products all the time and has practically no vision.