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Amazing how fast this decision was reversed. It's truly awesome to see regulators standing up to walled gardens. This will greatly benefit both developers and c
by astlouis44 3y ago
Amazing how fast this decision was reversed. It's truly awesome to see regulators standing up to walled gardens. This will greatly benefit both developers and consumers.
- dkjaudyeqooe 3y agoThis is one of those things where there is only upside for everyone involved. Apple (and Google) need to be saved from themselves sometimes. Meanwhile the repeated reversals are making Apple look guilty and nefarious.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- toneyG 3y agoApple and Google are for-profit corporations. Im sure they would protest that they don't need saving
- throwaway14356 3y agoI want an iphone but if they want to end the industry i cant buy one
- holmesworcester 3y ago[flagged]
- Aldo_MX 3y agoThen buy 51% of shares, do a hostile takeover and stop their anti-competitive madness before it is too late. You don't need to do radical changes, just small actions like do not steal the tips students send to teachers. Going full-goblin mode and demanding 30% of all the money that moves through a phone is what is destroying Apple.
- autoexec 3y agoStudents are tipping teachers now? Tipping culture really has gone off the rails.
- mass_and_energy 3y agoCan someone please explain how this isn't bribery in disguise? I'd have graduated with honors if my teachers accepted tips
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- willcipriano 3y agoIf you tip enough they even put your name on one of the buildings.
- idontpost 3y ago[dead]
- Brian_K_White 3y agoIt's not bribery because it's not degree courses. You can go on countless apps and sites and pay to have people teach you stuff.
- nox101 3y agoI don't know what the op is referring to but just a guess. I know one app, HelloTalk where I think you can get paid to teach language. Think of it as zoom + twitch but centered around language learning. You can run a channel (twitch style) and you can take private "zoom" calls for money. Apple is probably taking 30% for those calls.
- Aldo_MX 3y agoTo people confused about "students tipping teachers", this is the context: https://techcrunch.com/2024/02/21/in-a-reversal-apple-is-now-demanding-30-of-the-donations-to-meditation-app-insight-timers-teachers/amp/ https://techcrunch.com/2024/02/21/in-a-reversal-apple-is-now...
- kjkjadksj 3y agoThey aren’t a single person. There are no doubt people in those orgs who might wish to do away with all the anticompetitive strongarmsmanship in the spirit of shared technological innovation. But, its not like they have agency to change anything and the shareholders just want a growth stock not actual technological progress, so thats how they end up managed.
- hinkley 3y agoA lot more ideological fights boil down to internal factions pushing things one way or the other than one would think. Smart people can make mischief visible or invisible without necessarily getting caught defecting or cooperating. Oops did I draw that regulator’s attention to the room where we keep the bodies? Silly me.
- blackbear_ 3y agoI must be missing something, how does the second sentence logically follow from the first one?
- vrachev 3y agoI liken good regulation as a way to prevent markets from getting stuck in a local maxima. That's generally what people mean from "saving them from themselves.
- tjoff 3y agoYeah we get to choose between google and apple. Lucky us...
- biscuitech 3y agoWould you rather have no choice? I get the sentiment, but it's nice to finally have lawmakers and regulators standing for what's right - for once.
- tshaddox 3y agoAren’t regulators by definition establishing regulations which make all choices more similar to each other?
- dwattttt 3y agoMore similar in that they force them to obey the regulations, yes. But regulations cover things like interoperability & anti-competitive behaviour, and here retaliatory actions. I'd very much like _all_ choices to be forced to behave the same w.r.t. not being able to retaliate against protected action, or all be forced to follow the same laws.
- wredue 3y agoSure. In the same way that all sports are similar in that most have regulations against fighting.
- tshaddox 3y agoBut we’re not in a situation where there are very few sports, where many people complain about the lack of choice in sports, and where regulators are attempting to eliminate one of the very few meaningful differences between the existing choices.
- kelnos 3y agoThere are plenty of ways to differentiate in a competitive market. Good regulations set baselines for fair play, both toward customers and competitors. Whether or not that makes some aspects of those choices more similar isn't really relevant. Or if it is, it's because it makes them similar in good ways. Ways that are pro-customer and pro-competition, but they won't do unless legally required.
- burnerthrow008 3y ago> This is one of those things where there is only upside for everyone involved. Except all of us who value privacy and security. Face it: the major competition between app stores is not going to be on price, but a race to the bottom on who can allow apps to fuck over users the hardest.
- freedomben 3y agoYou really think Apple is just going to abandon everything it believes in and trash their brand in a race to the bottom? If there's one company I don't expect that from, it's Apple. They may have highly dubious ethics but they are damn good at business and marketing, and I would be utterly shocked if they don't position themselves as the safe, privacy-friendly official app store. For people who don't enable side-loading, I wouldn't expect they'll even notice any changes.
- tpmoney 3y agoIt's not whether Apple will, it's the other developers that you might not have a choice to interact with. Sure, in the tech space, we're all imagining the great open source on iOS revolution. Gamers are anticipating their Fortnite. And I'm sure Facebook is anticipating not having to ask for permission to hoover up all your personal data. Sure you don't need facebook, but if you want to be using WhatsApp to communicate with your friends and family, you might not have a choice. Shady companies that sell shady spyware to schools "for the children" are looking forward to a much easier time rolling out the most invasive ideas they have. The ad companies are I'm sure salivating over telemetry libraries with extra detailed modes for non-Apple app store installations.
- freedomben 3y agoThat would certainly be an interesting turn of events if major apps like Facebook or Whatsapp decided to d-list from the app store and require their own store. Given Apple's current heavy fees and disincentives to do that, I'm guessing epic is probably the only company that will. I think a lot of people would refuse to install an alternative app store to get most apps. But most of all, I look at Android where alternative app stores are possible with essentially no cost, and even with Amazon's enormous resources behind it, they could not get an alternative app store to catch on. I can't think of any reason why it would be different on iOS, so ultimately I suppose I expect this to go nowhere and a few years from now there will be the epic game store and the main app store and everything for nearly everybody will just be on the app store like it is now. The alternative stores will just have the apps that Apple wouldn't approve, like porn apps or privacy invasive, etc
- throwaway5959 3y agoI don’t think the EU should be able to say what Apple or Google can or cannot do in terms of their products. You don’t see the US constantly fining Airbus.
- dkjaudyeqooe 3y agoWhy not? They tell US car makers what their products should do. The same for fruit growers, clothes makers and thousands of other businesses selling into the common market. It's called regulation and it's a normal part of modern life. We're a society of laws and they apply equally to everyone. If you don't like the laws either vote accordingly, talk to your representative, organise a political action, or leave for a more agreeable jurisdiction. Also, the US fined Airbus $582 million in 2020.
- NekkoDroid 3y agoI find it funny them bringing up aviation companies when it feels like every month Boeing appears in the news for something falling off their plan while in flight, be it doors or wheels. That is what happens when you let companies "do what ever they want" and mind you aviation is VERY REGULATED.
- SR2Z 3y agoThe regulatory regime for Boeing has not changed; Boeing has.
- spacedcowboy 3y agoAccording to the article it was because Epic met with Apple and gave better assurances that they'd play ball rather than deliberately break their contract like they did last time. Regulators don't seem to have had anything to do with it. --- So what changed? Apple tells 9to5Mac that it has held further discussions with Epic. The result is that Apple has received proper commitment that Epic will play by the rules as legally defined. “Following conversations with Epic, they have committed to follow the rules, including our DMA policies. As a result, Epic Sweden AB has been permitted to re-sign the developer agreement and accepted into the Apple Developer Program.”
- sharikous 3y agoHonestly what you describe seems to be an attempt by Apple PR to save face. They fear the spotlight on the fact that even on alternate stores only accounts controlled by Apple can publish apps, which might become the focus of new regulations
- stale2002 3y agoRegulators immediately started calling for an investigation and we're going to look into Apple’s termination of Epic’s developer account as a matter of priority.
- andruby 3y agoI’d like to believe that, and it’s probably true. Do you have a source though?
- thinkerswell 3y agoThis was an overreach by the EU. Android is open source, let Epic launch their own phone, or their own Android store. Methinks this crowd loves regulation a bit too much.
- znpy 3y agoImagine if the US had equivalent regulators as well...
- mike_d 3y agoWe would all be carrying around government approved Windows Mobile phones. Remember all this DMA stuff is coming from the same organization that wants to force Chrome and Firefox to accept TLS certificates issued by governments for any website they want: https://therecord.media/eu-urged-to-drop-law-website-authentication-certificates https://therecord.media/eu-urged-to-drop-law-website-authent...
- whynotmaybe 3y agoThis brings me the regret of all the time I spent building windows phone apps.
- kelnos 3y agoJust because a government organization wants to push some bad laws, it doesn't mean they can't also do good, and enact useful policies that are actually good for people.
- harkinian 3y ago[dead]
- g051051 3y agoIt's unlikely that "regulators" had anything to do with it, given the quick resolution. I'd be more inclined to think that Epic went back to Apple hat-in-hand and begged to be let back in, probably promising to muzzle Sweeney.
- agust 3y agoSure, Apple takes a strong decision which breaks a just-enforced law, and two days later they back down because they had a nice talk with Epic. /s The EU told Apple that breaking the law would have dire consequences. That's the only reason Apple backed down. Stop spreading Apple propaganda.
- johnnyanmac 3y agoIt's good scrutiny to have, but I'm surprised that there are now at leat 3 users here that really believe that Apple reversed course in 3 days out of the goodness of their hearts. I can't even get a response from many customer services in 3 days. No company thst big turns on a dime without extreme arm twisting.
- internetter 3y agoCan confirm. I've been waiting for Apple's developer support to reply to me since before this debacle. I finally got a response 2 hours ago – after I resolved my issue – that stated they are busy right now.
- kj100 3y ago> The EU told Apple that breaking the law would have dire consequences. That's the only reason Apple backed down. You have no idea that this is what happened. You're the one spreading propaganda. Why propagandize it at all? EPIC hates Apple and wants to see the App store dead. Apple reasonably didn't trust EPIC not to play games with the DMA. The EU asked EPIC to give an assurance that they would play by the rules and then forced Apple to accept that assurance. Neither of them won anything. Apple is forced to let EPIC in, and EPIC is forced to accept that Apple is complying with the DMA. That fits the facts. EPIC isn't a good guy. Apple isn't a good guy. The EU isn't a hero. Why try to paint any of them this way?
- nielsbot 3y agoFrom the article > “Following conversations with Epic, they have committed to follow the rules, including our DMA policies. As a result, Epic Sweden AB has been permitted to re-sign the developer agreement and accepted into the Apple Developer Program.”
- mike_d 3y agoThis needs to be higher up. Apple didn't budge, or cave, and regulators did not get involved. Epic could have avoided all this by just responding to Apple and signing the EU Addendum affirming they would stick to the laws. Instead they wanted to get into the news cycle. This is the policy they have to agree to: https://developer.apple.com/contact/request/download/alternate_eu_terms_addendum.pdf https://developer.apple.com/contact/request/download/alterna...
- lxgr 3y agoRegulators did get involved: https://twitter.com/ThierryBreton/status/1765793776692326891 https://twitter.com/ThierryBreton/status/1765793776692326891
- johnnyanmac 3y agoAnd news article https://www.reuters.com/technology/eu-regulators-seek-details-escalating-apple-epic-games-spat-2024-03-07/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/eu-regulators-seek-detail... Includes the tweet as well as confirmation they that the commission did talk to Apple on Thursday
- mike_d 3y agoHe tweeted something. There was some reporting he might have sent a letter asking questions too, the same as you or I could do. If any official action was taken it would have to be documented with a case: https://digital-markets-act-cases.ec.europa.eu/search https://digital-markets-act-cases.ec.europa.eu/search
- 3y ago
- roamerz 3y agoApple should offer 2 versions of the phone. One version for the consumers who appreciate the extra level of security and another for the rest.
- Moldoteck 3y agoApple should follow eu laws if it wants to do business withe eu. I know, sounds crazy right?
- roamerz 3y agoMy suggestion would give consumers an additional choice. Sounds like that is something you are against? I thought that this was what this was all about.
- Moldoteck 3y agoDma offers exactly that. Consumers can (or will be able to) choose to use apple defaults or not at any time of owning the device
- rahkiin 3y agoAs long as consumers can choose to download WhatsApp from the App Store and are then not forced to use some tracking Meta store. Dma is mostly about choice for a couple of developers. Not for users. No way will Epic publish games on their own and Apples store, they did not do it with the Epic Store either. Consumers did not have a choice where to buy when Epic bought exclusive access.
- maxhille 3y agoYou make it sound as if the Apple App Store did not track you.
- Moldoteck 3y agoAfaik on Android exactly this happens, consumers can download Whatsapp from google play or if they want, they may sideload it. Epic was not allowed to publish games on app store after avoiding 30% tax, so consumers were not able to install it from app store anyway so again, with this law, consumers in eu that may want to sideload instead of doing nothing at all, will be able to So just as I said, consumer takes decisions what apps to install and how to install them instead of apple. If you don't want to use sideloading - don't use it
- isodev 3y agoApple really didn’t make this easy for themselves. In addition to all the legal stuff, they literally gave “the finger” to every EU developer and customer of theirs.
- readyman 3y agoHow would this benefit consumers?
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- muro 3y agoI think this was all a distraction to give regulators some way to pretend they are doing something while retaining their ridiculous pricing structure and avoiding discussion on that.
- fauigerzigerk 3y agoI don't think they can possibly hope for that distraction to work. They know they will be under massive pressure to change this absurd pricing structure. I think their strategy is to move the point of reference for future negotiations to an extreme end of the spectrum of what could still be considered to comply with the letter of the law.
- belter 3y agoEU regulators show be noted for once. Because the US regulators are on their second siesta.
- veunes 3y agoIt reminds me of like two kids having a huge argument and regulators are their parents