12 ms·

Working in the Vision Pro [video]

134 points by cubefox 3y ago

robg 3y ago
Quick question: is it comfortable?
- exitb 3y ago
  That’s the main question. And I suspect, the reason why Apple has not pitched that sort of desk setup. I doubt this is comfortable enough to provide a full day, every day usage.
  - robg 3y ago
    Why I’m asking, feels a bit like the old iPad / desktop shorthand on consumption vs creation. I liked one review that compared Vision Pro to a highend TV, but not convinced it’s worth more than that.
    - lexlash 3y ago
      90% of my usage has been watching media. It won’t pair with laptops (haven’t had time to debug) and the eye-based UI isn’t great, and is outright awful when navigating iPad apps that don’t have working highlights. Scroll and tap gestures are amazingly smooth and accurate; it’s frustrating that there aren’t more ways to use that - I need to dig around in accessibility, I suspect…
- corethree 3y ago
  I think a recliner set up could work. In that position you can wear it all day.
  - xnx 3y ago
    I'm disappointed by how shallow even "in depth" reviews are that they don't mention this. A reclined position basically eliminates weight and balance issues. Additionally, using a traditional monitor in a reclined position is very difficult.
    - cubefox 3y ago
      For Meta's Quest headsets, third party manufacturers sell solid "halo" head straps, which are much more comfortable by distributing the weight mostly on top of the head instead of just pressing the headset to the face. Basically imitations of Sony's PlayStation VR. The top manufacturer is BoboVR, but they obviously haven't yet made one for the Vision Pro. I don't get why Meta and Apple don't include this as the default, given that it's obviously the optimal solution. Then again, at least Apple even used a heavy and unnecessary metal frame in the headset, so ergonomics clearly isn't their top priority.
      - Ancapistani 3y ago
        On the bright side, the AVP's "Lightning-like" connector for the arms means that it's at least theoretically possible for third parties to design whatever mounting hardware people want.
    - trevorkoob 3y ago
      testing lying down as we speak. Much more comfortable. The killer market for this device is business airline travel.
      - ghaff 3y ago
        I'll admit that air travel is the opportunity to read books and watch films that I don't do enough of at home.
    - layer8 3y ago
      > Additionally, using a traditional monitor in a reclined position is very difficult. A monitor isn’t much of an issue, just use a VESA mount. Keyboarding is more difficult in a reclined position, unless you can use it fully blind.
- giarc 3y ago
  Most reviews have said it's noticeable after a few hours, which is ok since the battery only lasts for 2.5 hours or so.
  - robg 3y ago
    That’s a movie though, not work. And taking it off for a lunch or snack break, does the user feel sore putting it back on? Is the 3rd or 4th session of the day so uncomfortable as to be limiting for an 8 hour work day?
- cubefox 3y ago
  I watched a few reviews. Some reviewers say it's not too heavy even after extended periods of time, others say it already gets uncomfortable on the face after 45 minutes with the default head strap. Some say the double head strap is much better, others say it doesn't make a big difference over the normal one.
  - lexlash 3y ago
    The big question is how it fits with your face and how sensitive you are to blur. The sweet spot requires precise positioning on your face - which means a tighter pull on the strap to hold it, and more discomfort if it was already uncomfortable.
  - kj99 3y ago
    I don’t notice the weight, and I’ve used mine for at least 4 hours a day since Friday. For me it was literally painful with the solo loop after less than 20 minutes, whereas with then dual loop it’s absolutely fine. There are lot of different shaped heads out there.
- lexlash 3y ago
  Yes and no. In order to get and maintain the best possible clarity, key for text, I have to wear it higher on my face than is comfortable and tighten the strap more than I would prefer. If I could wear it a little lower or with different supports on my face I could easily spend a full day in it; as it is, I’ve yet to spend more than 4h with it on. I find the Meta Quest Pro and 3 more comfortable, but the CV1 was the most comfortable. Can’t imagine using those for productivity though; the 3 is _ok_ for text but not stellar, and the pass through mode there is a joke compared to the Vision Pro. Viture and NReal (XReal now, I guess?) AR glasses don’t compare at all. Vastly more comfortable (if your face isn’t too wide) but tiny FOV and lots of fiddling required to get sharp text, with unavoidable blur at the edges of the screen. …I guess I’ve been an enthusiast since the Rift Kickstarter?
  - Eugr 3y ago
    I have an Xreal Air and don't find it comfortable at all unless I'm laying down. I have to use optical inserts, and it just keeps sliding down my nose all the time. Quest 3 is vastly more comfortable for me, especially with the Elite strap. Quest Pro, on the other hand, wasn't as comfortable due to the pressure to the forehead... I'll get my AVP later today, will compare then.
    - lexlash 3y ago
      Got LASIK in order to do research on stuff like this. I hated jamming my glasses in between my face and CV1; I can’t imagine the xreal working well with inserts - I have to keep it very close to my face in order for it to function.
      - Eugr 3y ago
        Even without the inserts and with contacts it was only marginally usable - it has a very narrow sweet spot and requires precise positioning. Not a big issue when watching movies, but a huge one when mirroring the laptop screen...
  - wkat4242 3y ago
    > …I guess I’ve been an enthusiast since the Rift Kickstarter? The rift CV1 was really comfortable because there wasn't a whole lot in it. No processing, no battery, no cameras. It was pretty light. And the strap was not built down to a price and skimped on to upsell the elite straps. Even the much heavier quest 1 was way more comfortable than the quest 2 and 3. Way better standard strap. So good an elite one wasn't even needed.
- orionsbelt 3y ago
  This is largely personal, as everyone’s face/head is different. Personally, it’s the most comfortable headset I’ve ever used. Many people recommend the dual loop strap, but I actually love the solo band and find it super comfortable. Many people are also experimenting with different ways to wear it. For example, I have been wearing mine with no light seal, which increases the FOV and I surprisingly find more comfortable. I think people need time to adapt on how to best wear it, and third party mods will be a thing. All that said, I wouldn’t want to wear it for 8 hours straight. It will continue to get lighter and more comfortable each generation.
  - dawnerd 3y ago
    I tried the dual loop and it ended up being more uncomfortable. It's really down to each persons build. For me I couldn't wear without a light seal, my eyebrows would touch the glass, and kinda already do with the normal cushion. Once you figure out how to get it just right it's pretty easy to stay in it for a lot longer. I went about six hours yesterday without any discomfort (I did get a smudge on the lens and was too stubborn to clean it).
eemil 3y ago
I like the idea of having presets in specific locations, like your grocery list next to your fridge. Or specific productivity apps near your desk/keyboard. Any idea if visionOS supports this, or if you have to set up the apps every time you come home?
- giarc 3y ago
  Having your grocery list always next to your fridge implies that you will be wearing this most of the day. Otherwise, why not just keep a list in Notes app or an actual physical list on the fridge?
  - Ancapistani 3y ago
    I do plan to use my AVP all day, at least for a while. I expect that there will be a moment where things "click". My brain will have adapter to the world with the computing overlay, and I'll be seeing a difficult (or impossible) to describe vision of the future. That said, I don't think that'll be practical long term. I'll do it long enough to get a taste for it, then I expect that I'll be using it in my office chair 90% of the time. I am looking forward to being able to use it while traveling (while my wife is driving, on an airplane, in hotels, etc.) to access my productive environment, though. That will be its primary utilitarian use. The reason I'm willing to spend the money is that I want to get in as early as possible on developing for the platform. I fully expect that the product line will survive and grow, and that in a handful of years they'll be smaller, lighter, cheaper, and as ubiquitous as smartphones are today. I want to be selling apps during that initial wide adoption.
  - wkat4242 3y ago
    Well you could sync it with your iPhone, right? I assume it's the same notes app that syncs through iCloud?
- ChicagoBoy11 3y ago
  It does, provided the headset isn't completely powered down. It is designed sort of with that in mind -- there's no off button, you just take it off and that's it, sort of like the Max headphones. But, if it is completely shut off, to my knowledge atm there is no persistence beyond that and the device will reset all window positions.
falcolas 3y ago
The passthrough looks and works better than expected, but also a bit fuzzier than expected. I do appreciate how crisp the "desktop" windows look though.
- rungabajje 3y ago
  This is a screen recording from the device, which is not necessarily the same thing as what you as a user see when wearing the headset. For example there’s no vignette or distortion towards the edges what so ever in the video.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - lexlash 3y ago
    It is very weird seeing edges in the real world that I know are 90 degree joins show up as curved in my peripheral vision while using pass through.
    - ErneX 3y ago
      Also keep in mind what the person is gazing at is what is higher res, the rest is lower res (foveated rendering to save resources).
  - TillE 3y ago
    As far as I can tell, the capture output is just a crop of the actual display. MKBHD was trying to demonstrate the FOV using his hands, which indicated that the limits of his view were significantly out of frame of the video.
- avalys 3y ago
  The pass through is indeed very fuzzy. All the reviews where people state “it’s like looking through clear safety goggles”, etc. are bogus. It’s like looking through a cell phone camera from about 10 years ago. Especially in low light (e.g. a home office.) The actual AR content, though, is amazingly sharp.
solardev 3y ago
I really appreciate the calm video without needless drama. By far the best video of it I've seen so far.
- aantix 3y ago
  Agree. This video has made me more intrigued than anything Apple has put out.
FirmwareBurner 3y ago
Turning your head ~90 degrees to the left just to be able to see Slack(or any other windows) is for me an productivity nerf, not a boost. What's wrong with Alt/Option - Tab instead? In my life I experimented with 3 monitors, 2 monitors, one monitor, ultra widescreens, square aspect ratio displays, and a mix of several of those, etc. and I find the best productivity setup is when I have everything centered in my narrow/focused field of view, regardless of how many displays there are or what their aspect ratio is. If I have too many or too wide displays, needing me to turn my head/neck to the side to see what's on them, it's just useless real estate and extra shit I have to manage and organize, wasting my brain power and concentration on managing the multi-monitor setup instead of on work. FWIW, currently I have a single 32 inch(27 would work too) 4k display straight in front of me, and switching workspaces via Meta Key + Scroll wheel is way more desk-real-estate, monetarily and energy eficient and more ergonomic than moving my neck to another display on the side that's just sitting there displaying a picture that nobody's looking at 90% of the time. But in a past job 12+ years ago, I loved having the two work-provided Philips 20 inch 4:3 1600x1200 IPS displays right in front of me. One of those in landscape with the IDE, the other rotated in portrait for the browser/documentation. That was peak DPI, windowing and ergonomics before 16:9 "HD" displays ruined vertical real estate and productivity with their "cinema" TV aspect ratio. Shame you can't get cheap monitors like those anymore in good condition(their CCFL lamps dimmed over time by now). Also, R.I.P. Philips display panels. Anyway, back on topic, this video feels like justifying the purchase with flashy multi window gimmicks instead of showing actual ergonomic improvements. The proof will be in the pudding. Will the author stick to that sprawling neck twisting setup long term, or will he switch back to a more conventional setup once the novelty of his new toy wears off and his video got enough views? FWIW 2, I have a Quest 3 for gaming, and could never use that for work due to the limited narrow FoV(~110°) that make it more like "binoculars vision" than actual virtual/augumented "reality". And according to the experience of MKBHD(Marques Brownlee) on YT, the Apple VP has an even narrower FoV than that. Ouch! That does not sound optimistic for productivity at all. IMHO 130°+ should be the norm for FoV going forward. Anything narrower and I feel like I'm wearing horse blinkers.
- andsoitis 3y ago
  Not only does more real estate imply ergonomics issues, real estate that's too sprawling leads to distraction.
Invictus0 3y ago
I have two side by side ultrawide 34" monitors. It's too much screen to use effectively. I rarely use more than just one monitor, and when I do use both, it's to put 3 very-zoomed-in windows up at the same time, not to have 6 windows open.
- Ancapistani 3y ago
  Have you considered mounting them one above the other? That's more effective IME. Alternatively, one horizontal and one vertical is nice if you're a terminal-heavy user.
toastercat 3y ago
This looks impractical. May be fun to watch a movie with, but since I rarely if ever watch movies by myself, kind of a no-go for me.
wnevets 3y ago
This is starting to me remind of when everyone was talking about replacing their Desktop/Laptop with an iPad and a Bluetooth keyboard for their work machine. I don't know anyone who was able to do so successfully.
- ghaff 3y ago
  I know a couple people who travel(ed) a lot who made it work for them. Personally I never could. (And a MacBook Air is sufficiently svelte and light these days I'm not sure I would make the effort.)
- IshKebab 3y ago
  I think there was some guy who wrote an entire game or app just using his phone. Definitely masochistic though! This video does not look remotely better than a normal PC.
- tambourine_man 3y ago
  It depends on your workflow. I'd never voluntarily infringe that burden uppon myself, but if you only work on terminal/slack/zoom all day, it's quite doable.
- Ancapistani 3y ago
  I did, for a while. 99% of my work is on a terminal. I used Blink for that, and connected to a remote machine via MOSH. MOSH reduces perceived latency by anticipating the update, and by sending only a diff between the client's display and the up-to-date emulated client on the server. I stopped because my 11" iPad Pro just wasn't large enough for most work, and because looking down at that screen wasn't practical if I'm sitting in a chair. For working from a hammock it was amazing - but my MBP has a larger screen, no network latency at all, and I can work fully offline if necessary. If I found myself between jobs again, I'd probably sell my laptops and go back to that setup. Other than saving money on hardware, there really isn't much point to it.
- cpuguy83 3y ago
  The experience really isn't that bad on iPad, except the apps you end up needing to use are kind of lacking... which of course does make it not wonderful. I did this for a couple of weeks with an 11 inch pro while my laptop was being repaired (blasted keyboard... then they broke the mainboard while replacing it). The 11inch is a little small and it made some things difficult, but not how you might think. The main thing with the size is the magic keyboard thing just didn't have enough room between the bottom of the screen and where my fingers need to be so I ended up hitting that a lot. The larger ipad actually doesn't have that problem. But... I should have just gone with a macbook air instead. Same price, roughly, same battery life, more power and versatility. Anyway, you didn't ask for a review but I gave you one anyway <3
js2 3y ago
How long I wonder before Apple is able to link multiple Vision Pros together so that people in the same physical space can share the same augmented reality? Imagine if when he says hello to his partner, she's also wearing a Vision Pro and is able to walk around their house seeing the same reality. That would make the VP much less isolating which is one of the main "I'd never use this" reasons I have against it. I could imagine in a few years time my wife and I each having these (our kids are grown and out of the house) and using them to work during the day and watch movies together at night. Now, not at $3,500 a piece and with all the compromises this device has. But a future device that's more affordable and has fewer compromises... maybe.
- audunw 3y ago
  I feel like it’s more or less guaranteed that Apple will end up implementing this eventually. Just as my wife and I can both connect our AirPods to the Apple TV and watch a movie while the kids are sleeping.
  - aaroninsf 3y ago
    Indeed, and, I have been waiting patiently for Siri to offer to read messages from you, in your voice, which is a useful component of having an avatar which has learned your facial expressions, and voice, and communication style, proxy for you. They have the data. They're good at repackaging the squick as sparkle.
- cubefox 3y ago
  This reminds me of some dystopian science fiction film where everyone is immersed in a shiny AR layer, while reality without the layer is dirty and derelict. Scene: A fancy nightclub, pretty people dancing to very loud music, surreal virtual objects and effects everywhere. Swap to reality: The music turns off. It's no longer night. An old, run-down building. Headset people in shabby clothes dancing to inaudible sounds, talking way too loudly, interacting with non-existent objects in the empty air. Everything is dusty. Beams of sunlight shining through half transparent windows. They haven't been cleaned for decades.
oxqbldpxo 3y ago
Hold for the headache. Great tech though.
CrimsonCape 3y ago
Correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't this just a fake "demo" crafted with Premier Pro type scene stabilization? Just an "artist" with a rendition of what this could be like?
- orionsbelt 3y ago
  No this is a screen recording from an actual Vision Pro which was released on Friday.
- hobo_mark 3y ago
  Not that I would know first-hand, but several other videos of the AVP in action look the same.
- ErneX 3y ago
  No, this is real footage captured from the device.
- cooper_ganglia 3y ago
  Nope, this a screen recording of the Vision Pro's passthrough. High quality video with rocksteady tracking to keep the windows perfectly in place! That same channel has a couple other videos with him using the AVP as well.
- ralfd 3y ago
  It is not a fake demo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZckj0SsWdU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZckj0SsWdU
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- kthartic 3y ago
  I believe this is a real screen capture from an actual Vision Pro (it came out last friday). The video description says "See what a real workflow looks like with the new #visionpro". There's more videos on his channel also :)
mancerayder 3y ago
Well, will it one day support Steam and PC or is this just another closed expensive piece of hardware we'll need to wait for the non-Apple walled garden equivalent?
- penjelly 3y ago
  consider also, games must be built with handtracking for it to work, controllers wont suffice. So not all vr games even if they do open it up.
- noidesto 3y ago
  Not as seamless as one might like. I stream games from my PC using moonlight. So far it's worked well.
- XCSme 3y ago
  > we'll need to wait for the non-Apple walled garden equivalent I assume Quest 2/3 already has those capabilities, or they will be added very soon to it, it can already remember things like your table/couch, display videos, etc.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
tambourine_man 3y ago
This is so cool. If they can shrink it or if it becomes socially acceptable to cosplay as a beetle constantly, this is the way. Now I just need to figure out how to type and mouse while laying in a hammock.
adverbly 3y ago
Looks cool... but man can these companies just stop it with the fake marketing content already? Between this and the Gemini demo its just so cringe to see obviously staged content. Dude just happens to walk by his partner who isn't doing any real work, but is instead playing with a tennis ball at exactly that moment, and who just randomly decides to immediately and without hesitation fucking yeet it at the guy wearing a headset who is clearly trying to make a recording. Come on people... what has tiktok done to us?
- ofcourseyoudo 3y ago
  I thought it would be funnier if she was packing her clothes in luggage and she threw her keys to him as she said "I'm leaving you"
  - wkat4242 3y ago
    Yeah or "those goggles or me, choose now!" :)
- Ancapistani 3y ago
  I thought it was just a funny thing that the author added in to highlight the effectiveness of the passthrough. It never occurred to me that it might have been intended to be "organic".
- ghostbrainalpha 3y ago
  The tennis ball was definitely planned, but I don't think its an Apple plant. This dude is kind of obsessed with the ball and trying to juggle with the headset on. https://www.youtube.com/shorts/b3__WACGQzY https://www.youtube.com/shorts/b3__WACGQzY
- antman123 3y ago
  what part of this was fake? Gemini video was sped up and cut and added voice. This is just a recording of the headset with no editing?
  - 3y ago
kj99 3y ago
I’m curious how that works out for him. I have been using mine fairy intensely for work since I got it on Friday, and I don’t do it anything remotely like that. I do use screen mirroring with my Mac, and it works well for me. My physical monitor is a 24” 4K, and I have my Vision Pro set to replicate that. It’s most comfortable to have it replicate a bigger display further back than the physical monitor, but in practice the FOV of the mirrored display is pretty similar to my real one. I have also found myself using a bunch of auxillary VP windows, but I don’t arrange them as fixed planes as if they were more monitors. I tend to open them much more dynamically and move them around. The gesture and eye tracking makes this practical so I see no reason to ‘fix’ them in place. You can do things like dragging a single note out of apple notes and placing it next to your Mac display, of even in front. Also there is no reason to have windows be these giant panels floating far away. It works just as well to have a messaging app be a 4 inch window floating just above your keyboard. It’s also easy to just grab these things and pull them in and out of your field of view. Another thing that is overlooked is that you can have a lot of windows overlapping each other in the virtual space and they ghost out of the way of the selected window if it is behind them, so you can work with a bunch of windows stacked front to back. I have enjoyed leaving things like the economist app open in front of a couch in another room and then walking in there to sit down when I’m taking a break from work. I also have been super productive sitting on my bed immersed in the white sands environment watching developers videos and reading docs in safari etc.
uicompat 3y ago
This was a great demo, and the spatial computing stuff is cool, but what? He’s showing off that he has a big screen tv playing a video, overlayed over his big screen tv, playing a video without anyone watching it. He shows video playing cooking tutorials in his kitchen when he and his partner are both in other rooms working at their desks. A “note” pinned to his fridge, that he can only see while wearing the headset. He shows a screen for playing his music pinned to a wall on the other side of the room. He either has to get up and move to that location to change his music, which is somehow being presented as better than having a tab open on his browser, or he would just use a tab open on his browser and the whole spatial setup is just flashy moot. I once had a desk setup with two screens where I angled one screen aggressively to the left to attempt to stop allowing the corporate chat program to distract my immediate vision and it hospitalized me with a chronic neck injury. This setup is ‘cool’ but I feel like we’ve already trudged these waters. I’m confused by the enthusiasm. Have we all forgot that we’ve been through this “virtual desktop” cycle already? Are these all people that just ignored the previous stereoscopic headsets as “toys” who are seduced into it this time around by APPL’s marketing that this is for “working adults”?
- kunai 3y ago
  I'm absolutely certain at this point that this video, the video of the kid on the subway, and the guy in the Tesla are all some sort of inorganic viral marketing campaign on Apple's part because they are also aware of how narrow and niche the market for this device is and are terrified it'll have low uptake. It isn't open and interoperable with a bunch of other software like the Quest or Reverb, you can't game on it because there's no SteamVR support, and the projected use cases are ridiculous gimmicks. It's also got a much narrower FoV than initially advertised and is limited to Apple's walled garden. For productivity, why would you pay $3500 for this when you could buy two huge 4K monitors and an impressively powerful PC/Mac instead and still have about 500 bucks left over? It's all so weird. It's like they're trying to make it seem normal to just use this thing out and about when the best applications of VR are interactive simulations and games that are best used indoors in controlled environments. Not a single mixed reality device (Google Glass, HoloLens) by Apple's competitors has ever made this type of use case work, and I have little faith that Apple has somehow overcome all of the obstacles that Google and Microsoft faced.
exitb 3y ago
What happens when you open the fridge door? Does the note move along, or clip through the door, into the fridge?
- dansalvato 3y ago
  I've done some experimenting with this. If a window is in focus, it occludes real-world objects, even those that are in front of the window. The real-world object becomes maybe 5% visible, so you can just barely see it. If the window is not in focus (like if you're not looking directly at it), then it goes 50/50 with real-world objects, so any real object in front of it becomes sort of a "ghost" in order for you to still be able to see the window. It never tries to occlude apps behind real-world objects, except for your hands, which do full occlusion, as shown in the video.
dansalvato 3y ago
I've been wearing AVP extensively these past few days, experimenting with using it for all kinds of things. As of now, I don't find it more efficient or seamless at doing much of anything. 1. There is no window management whatsoever. It would be great if I could stick apps to each other, or tile them in a frame, but I can't do that. I also can't stack windows—if I put one window behind another, the only way to access it is to move the front window out of the way, or to close it. Kind of ridiculous, because I'm pretty sure that problem was already solved in the early 80s, if not ealier. 2. The field of view is really narrow. I have a 32:9 curved monitor, and I can easily look at the "side" apps by tilting my head just a few degrees, with my eyes doing the rest of the work. AVP demands tilting your head much more in either direction to see the window content, making it much harder to momentarily glance at. 3. I've had awful luck with the MacBook screen projection. Others may not have this issue. After a couple minutes of using it, it begins to heavily stutter to the point of being unusable. The keyboard handoff randomly disconnects. And AVP doesn't yet support bluetooth mice, only trackpads (either the MacBook's built-in trackpad, or a Magic Trackpad). At least for normal desk work, AVP does not improve speed or efficiency in any way—it does the opposite. Hell, when I'm projecting my MacBook screen, I have to resist the temptation to just use desktop apps for everything, because they're so much faster and easier to use than the floating visionOS/iPadOS apps. It's the iPad all over again. If you're a seasoned PC power user, using AVP will only hurt your efficiency in the same way that it would to try offloading some of your work to an iPad. With that said, it does make certain things more enjoyable. Apple clearly didn't make this device as a solution to existing problems. The point is that it's a new relationship that we get to have with technology, which will possibly change the way we want to use technology. But for real, Apple hasn't launched a first-gen product this limited in use since the original iPhone. It has a long way to go before it actually starts making digital life more efficient, except for some highly specialized use cases.
- Ancapistani 3y ago
  > There is no window management whatsoever. FYI, Immersed is planning on releasing their app for visionOS. According to their employees on Discord, they're expecting that to happen around the end of February. Immersed is by far the best "virtual desktop" app I've ever used, so I expect it will solve most or all of the issues with Apple's implementation at launch. I'm guessing Apple will catch up eventually, but for now, I'd watch Immersed. > But for real, Apple hasn't launched a first-gen product this limited in use since the original iPhone. That's... oddly encouraging to hear. I'm 100% seeing this as a chance to get in on the early days of a new market, approximately of the same scope as the launch of the iPhone.
paxys 3y ago
Not being able to break out and spatially arrange different Mac windows on this thing is a major deal breaker right now. I don’t really care about all the apps published to the store. For real productivity I want a full desktop computer in front of me.
- nebulousnights 3y ago
  There is a github project that lets you do it. Let me try to find it.... here you go https://github.com/saagarjha/Ensemble https://github.com/saagarjha/Ensemble
12_throw_away 3y ago
So, what's the equivalent of carpal tunnel syndrome, but for your neck? Because that's all I could think about while watching this.
- niceice 3y ago
  Swole neck. Apple Vision Pro, the cure for tech neck.
micromacrofoot 3y ago
One caveat when watching screen captures like this is that they do not accurately capture the actual field of view, which is more akin to wearing an old pair of ski goggles. The review from The Verge has a simulated view halfway down the page. The screen captures are deceptive and strongly favor Apple's marketing. https://www.theverge.com/24054862/apple-vision-pro-review-vr-ar-headset-features-price https://www.theverge.com/24054862/apple-vision-pro-review-vr... People are nuts for walking around with public in these given how much you're limited, someone's going to get seriously injured because they missed something in their periphery.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
TurkishPoptart 3y ago
I expected a cable dongle and external battery to be dangling off this into his pocket, does AVP no longer require that to be connected for use?
- svachalek 3y ago
  It's there in the mirror shot. Just not as prominent as people expect maybe.
- wkat4242 3y ago
  It is. There isn't even a tiny battery that can last a couple minutes while you swap batteries. I would have expected at least that.
miiiiiike 3y ago
Took about 90 minutes for me to decide to send the Vision Pro back.
- lostmsu 3y ago
  This would be more useful with "why"
  - miiiiiike 3y ago
    Use it for 90 minutes, you’ll get it.
swozey 3y ago
Are these in every apple store to demo or are they so low volume they're all for sale?
- criddell 3y ago
  Demoing is hard because of the vision prescription (if needed) and the face scan required to get the light seals right. These things aren’t really designed for sharing. But you can buy one and if it isn’t what you hoped for, you can return it within 14 days. In my experience, returns at Apple are quick and easy.
  - dkonofalski 3y ago
    Apple has the prescription lenses in the stores. If you bring your glasses, they have a device that will shine some lights through your glasses to determine your prescription and pop out the correct lenses needed for the Vision demo.
    - wkat4242 3y ago
      I wonder how do they manage that with all the corrections needed like for astigmatism? That's a huge range of combinations.
      - dkonofalski 3y ago
        The intake form asks for certain things (like prism vision) and it also asks if you know your prescription ahead of time. I can't imagine that they'll have all of those specific fixes but, for the majority of people, you can simply go in and get the right prescriptions lenses. They even email you a link to get your specific prescription of lenses after the demo.
- remh 3y ago
  they are but you might need to book a time slot
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
fortran77 3y ago
Can it work at all with non-Apple computers?
htk 3y ago
Cool demo to show friends but I didn't learn anything new from this video. I was expecting something on the lines of how legible text is in the floating mac display, if the interaction between ipad apps/mac apps works well, is it better to use mac or ipad versions of apps, etc.
- lostmsu 3y ago
  At least on the video the text does not look crisp.
haburka 3y ago
Two things hidden from this view: 1. There is absurd motion blur whenever you move your head. This has to be some nausea prevention technique but it is extremely frustrating if you’re trying to look back and forth between screens. No setting for this of course because it’s apple. 2. You can have only one window that’s a virtual desktop. Everything else has to be a iOS app so that means you cant have a window for coding and for viewing the result in chrome unless you want to figure out how to code on iOS which does not have a vscode app! In general, everything being on iOS is an extreme nerf to its capabilities as a decent peripheral. It’s an iPad on your face. Do you want to figure out how to do your daily work on an iPad? If the virtual desktop was fully featured then it might be usable. Finally the windows are not curved which is worse than my meat space curved ultra wide monitor.
- wkat4242 3y ago
  > Finally the windows are not curved which is worse than my meat space curved ultra wide monitor. This one seems easily fixed. The Quest can already do this, you can choose if you want them curved or not. The others I imagine will be harder to fix but I agree they are big impediments for serious productivity.
fgsfds028374 3y ago
[dead]
lttlrck 3y ago
As a user of i3 and more recently sway for years now, there is no way I could adapt to this. I'd take a huge efficiency hit. Turning my head is for looking out the window or talking to colleagues/family...
timetraveller26 3y ago
Is this Microsoft Bob?
whoopsie 3y ago
Owner since Friday morning and developer with normally 17k pixels on 4 screens. If you’re seeking to 1:1 your existing flow, not yet. While my Studio Ultra delivers a lag-free crystal clear feed to the VP, not all “non IDE” apps work well in AVP native windows yet. But, if you exploit the strengths of the platform, it’s quite nice. I physically walk to my analytics station, meeting station, and programming station. The walking helps me think more intentionally between tasks. It is absolutely slower than multitasking IRL, but faster in terms of thought clarity. Like ideas in the shower. I’ve found a good part of two work days has been better spent in the Vision Pro. I doubt every work day will be the same. I wish I could walk between git work trees.
beefnugs 3y ago
I feel like technology always has a "this is not what i want" problem to huge portions of users. Why haven't we come up with amazing new ways of incredibly fast feedback? user: "send feedback : i want to quickly switch between windows and I cant seem to do this" developer : "Hey look here we have 3700 users who want faster task switching features" (submit task request to upper management) (approved) a month later, "hey user 7 feedbacks in the last month may have been solved, slap the naked zuckerberg dingus in your home area to hear more"
euroderf 3y ago
OT, but: Gruber makes the point [1] that AVP uses indirect manipulation, where the iPhone uses direct. "You don’t reach out and grab a window bar to move the window." So I have to wonder, did it occur to Apple to try direct manipulation ? The basis would be to emulate Reed Richards a.k.a. Mr Fantastic (elastic). [1] https://daringfireball.net/2024/02/simple_tricks_and_nonsense https://daringfireball.net/2024/02/simple_tricks_and_nonsens...
joshstrange 3y ago
At the end of the day the Apple Vision Pro is an iPad with an infinite screen and window management. If you can work on an iPad you can work better in the AVP. That’s not the case for me and it’s not the case for many people here at least. The AVP is an amazing content consumption device but not at the current price point IMHO. I’ve written daily about my experience with the AVP [0] and I’ve come to the conclusion that I don’t think it’s for me right now. I have zero doubt I will buy a future iteration of this device but this version doesn’t cut it for me. I went in eyes wide open, no pun intended, to the AVP. I knew from the start that it was a v1, early version, and essentially a dev kit++. I said in comments here on HN that returning it was always on the table for me. I’m going to give it a few more days but as things stand now, be retuning mine. Apple has created something magical and they knocked it out of the park but it needs improvements to become something I want to wear all the time. Improvements that I believe that Apple will make, that’s Apple’s super power, commitment. They don’t always follow through (the Mac for many years or things like the HomePod) but when they do they create amazing things. Heck, the iPad is something I build on top of (as does my company) because I/we know Apple is committed to it in a way that you can’t say for any other tablet maker. I can’t wait for fitter iterations of this device and for it to have its retina/iPhone 4 moment. [0] https://joshstrange.com https://joshstrange.com
- Terretta 3y ago
  Having used iPad Pro as daily driver since release of magic keyboard with trackpad, I agree with this take. In particular, if you already use the new iPadOS "Stage Manager" with your business, productivity, and code apps in workspace clusters, you can use all the same apps, tools, and workflows as easily, plus spatial affordances. Note that any iPad app, if pulled close to you to be about iPad sized within half an arm's reach, can be touched, scrolled, manipulated as if a literal iPad screen. This even works with apps such as Microsoft Whiteboard within Teams, you can write on the shared whiteboard with your fingertip. Of course, lack of solidity makes this far less precise than the literal iPad. If you find the iPad Pro w/ Magic Keyboard and Trackpad and the Stage Manager approach to multi-task work constraining relative to laptop, you will be even less happy with AVP. PS. This laptop and tablet case is one of the slimmest that carries both Macbook Pro 16" together with iPad Pro 13" in its Magic Keyboard w/ Trackpad "case" sleekly with plenty of space for all accessories: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07Y2Y9PYM/ https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07Y2Y9PYM/ It has a particularly nice pull strap that lifts the iPad out from the iPad slot. Carrying this case means you always have both with you. If your use of the iPad is so comfortable you prefer to reach for that over the Macbook for most things even when both are at hand, going to the Macbook only when you need to do something in terminal you can't do in Blink shell, you will probably be fine for remote work using AVP.

134 points by cubefox 3y ago

robg 3y ago

Quick question: is it comfortable?

exitb 3y ago
That’s the main question. And I suspect, the reason why Apple has not pitched that sort of desk setup. I doubt this is comfortable enough to provide a full day, every day usage.
- robg 3y ago
  Why I’m asking, feels a bit like the old iPad / desktop shorthand on consumption vs creation. I liked one review that compared Vision Pro to a highend TV, but not convinced it’s worth more than that.
  - lexlash 3y ago
    90% of my usage has been watching media. It won’t pair with laptops (haven’t had time to debug) and the eye-based UI isn’t great, and is outright awful when navigating iPad apps that don’t have working highlights. Scroll and tap gestures are amazingly smooth and accurate; it’s frustrating that there aren’t more ways to use that - I need to dig around in accessibility, I suspect…
corethree 3y ago
I think a recliner set up could work. In that position you can wear it all day.
- xnx 3y ago
  I'm disappointed by how shallow even "in depth" reviews are that they don't mention this. A reclined position basically eliminates weight and balance issues. Additionally, using a traditional monitor in a reclined position is very difficult.
  - cubefox 3y ago
    For Meta's Quest headsets, third party manufacturers sell solid "halo" head straps, which are much more comfortable by distributing the weight mostly on top of the head instead of just pressing the headset to the face. Basically imitations of Sony's PlayStation VR. The top manufacturer is BoboVR, but they obviously haven't yet made one for the Vision Pro. I don't get why Meta and Apple don't include this as the default, given that it's obviously the optimal solution. Then again, at least Apple even used a heavy and unnecessary metal frame in the headset, so ergonomics clearly isn't their top priority.
    - Ancapistani 3y ago
      On the bright side, the AVP's "Lightning-like" connector for the arms means that it's at least theoretically possible for third parties to design whatever mounting hardware people want.
  - trevorkoob 3y ago
    testing lying down as we speak. Much more comfortable. The killer market for this device is business airline travel.
    - ghaff 3y ago
      I'll admit that air travel is the opportunity to read books and watch films that I don't do enough of at home.
  - layer8 3y ago
    > Additionally, using a traditional monitor in a reclined position is very difficult. A monitor isn’t much of an issue, just use a VESA mount. Keyboarding is more difficult in a reclined position, unless you can use it fully blind.
giarc 3y ago
Most reviews have said it's noticeable after a few hours, which is ok since the battery only lasts for 2.5 hours or so.
- robg 3y ago
  That’s a movie though, not work. And taking it off for a lunch or snack break, does the user feel sore putting it back on? Is the 3rd or 4th session of the day so uncomfortable as to be limiting for an 8 hour work day?
cubefox 3y ago
I watched a few reviews. Some reviewers say it's not too heavy even after extended periods of time, others say it already gets uncomfortable on the face after 45 minutes with the default head strap. Some say the double head strap is much better, others say it doesn't make a big difference over the normal one.
- lexlash 3y ago
  The big question is how it fits with your face and how sensitive you are to blur. The sweet spot requires precise positioning on your face - which means a tighter pull on the strap to hold it, and more discomfort if it was already uncomfortable.
- kj99 3y ago
  I don’t notice the weight, and I’ve used mine for at least 4 hours a day since Friday. For me it was literally painful with the solo loop after less than 20 minutes, whereas with then dual loop it’s absolutely fine. There are lot of different shaped heads out there.
lexlash 3y ago
Yes and no. In order to get and maintain the best possible clarity, key for text, I have to wear it higher on my face than is comfortable and tighten the strap more than I would prefer. If I could wear it a little lower or with different supports on my face I could easily spend a full day in it; as it is, I’ve yet to spend more than 4h with it on. I find the Meta Quest Pro and 3 more comfortable, but the CV1 was the most comfortable. Can’t imagine using those for productivity though; the 3 is _ok_ for text but not stellar, and the pass through mode there is a joke compared to the Vision Pro. Viture and NReal (XReal now, I guess?) AR glasses don’t compare at all. Vastly more comfortable (if your face isn’t too wide) but tiny FOV and lots of fiddling required to get sharp text, with unavoidable blur at the edges of the screen. …I guess I’ve been an enthusiast since the Rift Kickstarter?
- Eugr 3y ago
  I have an Xreal Air and don't find it comfortable at all unless I'm laying down. I have to use optical inserts, and it just keeps sliding down my nose all the time. Quest 3 is vastly more comfortable for me, especially with the Elite strap. Quest Pro, on the other hand, wasn't as comfortable due to the pressure to the forehead... I'll get my AVP later today, will compare then.
  - lexlash 3y ago
    Got LASIK in order to do research on stuff like this. I hated jamming my glasses in between my face and CV1; I can’t imagine the xreal working well with inserts - I have to keep it very close to my face in order for it to function.
    - Eugr 3y ago
      Even without the inserts and with contacts it was only marginally usable - it has a very narrow sweet spot and requires precise positioning. Not a big issue when watching movies, but a huge one when mirroring the laptop screen...
- wkat4242 3y ago
  > …I guess I’ve been an enthusiast since the Rift Kickstarter? The rift CV1 was really comfortable because there wasn't a whole lot in it. No processing, no battery, no cameras. It was pretty light. And the strap was not built down to a price and skimped on to upsell the elite straps. Even the much heavier quest 1 was way more comfortable than the quest 2 and 3. Way better standard strap. So good an elite one wasn't even needed.
orionsbelt 3y ago
This is largely personal, as everyone’s face/head is different. Personally, it’s the most comfortable headset I’ve ever used. Many people recommend the dual loop strap, but I actually love the solo band and find it super comfortable. Many people are also experimenting with different ways to wear it. For example, I have been wearing mine with no light seal, which increases the FOV and I surprisingly find more comfortable. I think people need time to adapt on how to best wear it, and third party mods will be a thing. All that said, I wouldn’t want to wear it for 8 hours straight. It will continue to get lighter and more comfortable each generation.
- dawnerd 3y ago
  I tried the dual loop and it ended up being more uncomfortable. It's really down to each persons build. For me I couldn't wear without a light seal, my eyebrows would touch the glass, and kinda already do with the normal cushion. Once you figure out how to get it just right it's pretty easy to stay in it for a lot longer. I went about six hours yesterday without any discomfort (I did get a smudge on the lens and was too stubborn to clean it).

eemil 3y ago

I like the idea of having presets in specific locations, like your grocery list next to your fridge. Or specific productivity apps near your desk/keyboard. Any idea if visionOS supports this, or if you have to set up the apps every time you come home?

giarc 3y ago
Having your grocery list always next to your fridge implies that you will be wearing this most of the day. Otherwise, why not just keep a list in Notes app or an actual physical list on the fridge?
- Ancapistani 3y ago
  I do plan to use my AVP all day, at least for a while. I expect that there will be a moment where things "click". My brain will have adapter to the world with the computing overlay, and I'll be seeing a difficult (or impossible) to describe vision of the future. That said, I don't think that'll be practical long term. I'll do it long enough to get a taste for it, then I expect that I'll be using it in my office chair 90% of the time. I am looking forward to being able to use it while traveling (while my wife is driving, on an airplane, in hotels, etc.) to access my productive environment, though. That will be its primary utilitarian use. The reason I'm willing to spend the money is that I want to get in as early as possible on developing for the platform. I fully expect that the product line will survive and grow, and that in a handful of years they'll be smaller, lighter, cheaper, and as ubiquitous as smartphones are today. I want to be selling apps during that initial wide adoption.
- wkat4242 3y ago
  Well you could sync it with your iPhone, right? I assume it's the same notes app that syncs through iCloud?
ChicagoBoy11 3y ago
It does, provided the headset isn't completely powered down. It is designed sort of with that in mind -- there's no off button, you just take it off and that's it, sort of like the Max headphones. But, if it is completely shut off, to my knowledge atm there is no persistence beyond that and the device will reset all window positions.

falcolas 3y ago

The passthrough looks and works better than expected, but also a bit fuzzier than expected. I do appreciate how crisp the "desktop" windows look though.

rungabajje 3y ago
This is a screen recording from the device, which is not necessarily the same thing as what you as a user see when wearing the headset. For example there’s no vignette or distortion towards the edges what so ever in the video.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- lexlash 3y ago
  It is very weird seeing edges in the real world that I know are 90 degree joins show up as curved in my peripheral vision while using pass through.
  - ErneX 3y ago
    Also keep in mind what the person is gazing at is what is higher res, the rest is lower res (foveated rendering to save resources).
- TillE 3y ago
  As far as I can tell, the capture output is just a crop of the actual display. MKBHD was trying to demonstrate the FOV using his hands, which indicated that the limits of his view were significantly out of frame of the video.
avalys 3y ago
The pass through is indeed very fuzzy. All the reviews where people state “it’s like looking through clear safety goggles”, etc. are bogus. It’s like looking through a cell phone camera from about 10 years ago. Especially in low light (e.g. a home office.) The actual AR content, though, is amazingly sharp.

solardev 3y ago

I really appreciate the calm video without needless drama. By far the best video of it I've seen so far.

aantix 3y ago
Agree. This video has made me more intrigued than anything Apple has put out.

FirmwareBurner 3y ago

Turning your head ~90 degrees to the left just to be able to see Slack(or any other windows) is for me an productivity nerf, not a boost. What's wrong with Alt/Option - Tab instead? In my life I experimented with 3 monitors, 2 monitors, one monitor, ultra widescreens, square aspect ratio displays, and a mix of several of those, etc. and I find the best productivity setup is when I have everything centered in my narrow/focused field of view, regardless of how many displays there are or what their aspect ratio is. If I have too many or too wide displays, needing me to turn my head/neck to the side to see what's on them, it's just useless real estate and extra shit I have to manage and organize, wasting my brain power and concentration on managing the multi-monitor setup instead of on work. FWIW, currently I have a single 32 inch(27 would work too) 4k display straight in front of me, and switching workspaces via Meta Key + Scroll wheel is way more desk-real-estate, monetarily and energy eficient and more ergonomic than moving my neck to another display on the side that's just sitting there displaying a picture that nobody's looking at 90% of the time. But in a past job 12+ years ago, I loved having the two work-provided Philips 20 inch 4:3 1600x1200 IPS displays right in front of me. One of those in landscape with the IDE, the other rotated in portrait for the browser/documentation. That was peak DPI, windowing and ergonomics before 16:9 "HD" displays ruined vertical real estate and productivity with their "cinema" TV aspect ratio. Shame you can't get cheap monitors like those anymore in good condition(their CCFL lamps dimmed over time by now). Also, R.I.P. Philips display panels. Anyway, back on topic, this video feels like justifying the purchase with flashy multi window gimmicks instead of showing actual ergonomic improvements. The proof will be in the pudding. Will the author stick to that sprawling neck twisting setup long term, or will he switch back to a more conventional setup once the novelty of his new toy wears off and his video got enough views? FWIW 2, I have a Quest 3 for gaming, and could never use that for work due to the limited narrow FoV(~110°) that make it more like "binoculars vision" than actual virtual/augumented "reality". And according to the experience of MKBHD(Marques Brownlee) on YT, the Apple VP has an even narrower FoV than that. Ouch! That does not sound optimistic for productivity at all. IMHO 130°+ should be the norm for FoV going forward. Anything narrower and I feel like I'm wearing horse blinkers.

andsoitis 3y ago
Not only does more real estate imply ergonomics issues, real estate that's too sprawling leads to distraction.

Invictus0 3y ago

I have two side by side ultrawide 34" monitors. It's too much screen to use effectively. I rarely use more than just one monitor, and when I do use both, it's to put 3 very-zoomed-in windows up at the same time, not to have 6 windows open.

Ancapistani 3y ago
Have you considered mounting them one above the other? That's more effective IME. Alternatively, one horizontal and one vertical is nice if you're a terminal-heavy user.

toastercat 3y ago

This looks impractical. May be fun to watch a movie with, but since I rarely if ever watch movies by myself, kind of a no-go for me.

wnevets 3y ago

This is starting to me remind of when everyone was talking about replacing their Desktop/Laptop with an iPad and a Bluetooth keyboard for their work machine. I don't know anyone who was able to do so successfully.

ghaff 3y ago
I know a couple people who travel(ed) a lot who made it work for them. Personally I never could. (And a MacBook Air is sufficiently svelte and light these days I'm not sure I would make the effort.)
IshKebab 3y ago
I think there was some guy who wrote an entire game or app just using his phone. Definitely masochistic though! This video does not look remotely better than a normal PC.
tambourine_man 3y ago
It depends on your workflow. I'd never voluntarily infringe that burden uppon myself, but if you only work on terminal/slack/zoom all day, it's quite doable.
Ancapistani 3y ago
I did, for a while. 99% of my work is on a terminal. I used Blink for that, and connected to a remote machine via MOSH. MOSH reduces perceived latency by anticipating the update, and by sending only a diff between the client's display and the up-to-date emulated client on the server. I stopped because my 11" iPad Pro just wasn't large enough for most work, and because looking down at that screen wasn't practical if I'm sitting in a chair. For working from a hammock it was amazing - but my MBP has a larger screen, no network latency at all, and I can work fully offline if necessary. If I found myself between jobs again, I'd probably sell my laptops and go back to that setup. Other than saving money on hardware, there really isn't much point to it.
cpuguy83 3y ago
The experience really isn't that bad on iPad, except the apps you end up needing to use are kind of lacking... which of course does make it not wonderful. I did this for a couple of weeks with an 11 inch pro while my laptop was being repaired (blasted keyboard... then they broke the mainboard while replacing it). The 11inch is a little small and it made some things difficult, but not how you might think. The main thing with the size is the magic keyboard thing just didn't have enough room between the bottom of the screen and where my fingers need to be so I ended up hitting that a lot. The larger ipad actually doesn't have that problem. But... I should have just gone with a macbook air instead. Same price, roughly, same battery life, more power and versatility. Anyway, you didn't ask for a review but I gave you one anyway <3

js2 3y ago

How long I wonder before Apple is able to link multiple Vision Pros together so that people in the same physical space can share the same augmented reality? Imagine if when he says hello to his partner, she's also wearing a Vision Pro and is able to walk around their house seeing the same reality. That would make the VP much less isolating which is one of the main "I'd never use this" reasons I have against it. I could imagine in a few years time my wife and I each having these (our kids are grown and out of the house) and using them to work during the day and watch movies together at night. Now, not at $3,500 a piece and with all the compromises this device has. But a future device that's more affordable and has fewer compromises... maybe.

audunw 3y ago
I feel like it’s more or less guaranteed that Apple will end up implementing this eventually. Just as my wife and I can both connect our AirPods to the Apple TV and watch a movie while the kids are sleeping.
- aaroninsf 3y ago
  Indeed, and, I have been waiting patiently for Siri to offer to read messages from you, in your voice, which is a useful component of having an avatar which has learned your facial expressions, and voice, and communication style, proxy for you. They have the data. They're good at repackaging the squick as sparkle.
cubefox 3y ago
This reminds me of some dystopian science fiction film where everyone is immersed in a shiny AR layer, while reality without the layer is dirty and derelict. Scene: A fancy nightclub, pretty people dancing to very loud music, surreal virtual objects and effects everywhere. Swap to reality: The music turns off. It's no longer night. An old, run-down building. Headset people in shabby clothes dancing to inaudible sounds, talking way too loudly, interacting with non-existent objects in the empty air. Everything is dusty. Beams of sunlight shining through half transparent windows. They haven't been cleaned for decades.

oxqbldpxo 3y ago

Hold for the headache. Great tech though.

CrimsonCape 3y ago

Correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't this just a fake "demo" crafted with Premier Pro type scene stabilization? Just an "artist" with a rendition of what this could be like?

orionsbelt 3y ago
No this is a screen recording from an actual Vision Pro which was released on Friday.
hobo_mark 3y ago
Not that I would know first-hand, but several other videos of the AVP in action look the same.
ErneX 3y ago
No, this is real footage captured from the device.
cooper_ganglia 3y ago
Nope, this a screen recording of the Vision Pro's passthrough. High quality video with rocksteady tracking to keep the windows perfectly in place! That same channel has a couple other videos with him using the AVP as well.
ralfd 3y ago
It is not a fake demo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZckj0SsWdU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZckj0SsWdU
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
kthartic 3y ago
I believe this is a real screen capture from an actual Vision Pro (it came out last friday). The video description says "See what a real workflow looks like with the new #visionpro". There's more videos on his channel also :)

mancerayder 3y ago

Well, will it one day support Steam and PC or is this just another closed expensive piece of hardware we'll need to wait for the non-Apple walled garden equivalent?

penjelly 3y ago
consider also, games must be built with handtracking for it to work, controllers wont suffice. So not all vr games even if they do open it up.
noidesto 3y ago
Not as seamless as one might like. I stream games from my PC using moonlight. So far it's worked well.
XCSme 3y ago
> we'll need to wait for the non-Apple walled garden equivalent I assume Quest 2/3 already has those capabilities, or they will be added very soon to it, it can already remember things like your table/couch, display videos, etc.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

tambourine_man 3y ago

This is so cool. If they can shrink it or if it becomes socially acceptable to cosplay as a beetle constantly, this is the way. Now I just need to figure out how to type and mouse while laying in a hammock.

adverbly 3y ago

Looks cool... but man can these companies just stop it with the fake marketing content already? Between this and the Gemini demo its just so cringe to see obviously staged content. Dude just happens to walk by his partner who isn't doing any real work, but is instead playing with a tennis ball at exactly that moment, and who just randomly decides to immediately and without hesitation fucking yeet it at the guy wearing a headset who is clearly trying to make a recording. Come on people... what has tiktok done to us?

ofcourseyoudo 3y ago
I thought it would be funnier if she was packing her clothes in luggage and she threw her keys to him as she said "I'm leaving you"
- wkat4242 3y ago
  Yeah or "those goggles or me, choose now!" :)
Ancapistani 3y ago
I thought it was just a funny thing that the author added in to highlight the effectiveness of the passthrough. It never occurred to me that it might have been intended to be "organic".
ghostbrainalpha 3y ago
The tennis ball was definitely planned, but I don't think its an Apple plant. This dude is kind of obsessed with the ball and trying to juggle with the headset on. https://www.youtube.com/shorts/b3__WACGQzY https://www.youtube.com/shorts/b3__WACGQzY
antman123 3y ago
what part of this was fake? Gemini video was sped up and cut and added voice. This is just a recording of the headset with no editing?
- 3y ago

kj99 3y ago

I’m curious how that works out for him. I have been using mine fairy intensely for work since I got it on Friday, and I don’t do it anything remotely like that. I do use screen mirroring with my Mac, and it works well for me. My physical monitor is a 24” 4K, and I have my Vision Pro set to replicate that. It’s most comfortable to have it replicate a bigger display further back than the physical monitor, but in practice the FOV of the mirrored display is pretty similar to my real one. I have also found myself using a bunch of auxillary VP windows, but I don’t arrange them as fixed planes as if they were more monitors. I tend to open them much more dynamically and move them around. The gesture and eye tracking makes this practical so I see no reason to ‘fix’ them in place. You can do things like dragging a single note out of apple notes and placing it next to your Mac display, of even in front. Also there is no reason to have windows be these giant panels floating far away. It works just as well to have a messaging app be a 4 inch window floating just above your keyboard. It’s also easy to just grab these things and pull them in and out of your field of view. Another thing that is overlooked is that you can have a lot of windows overlapping each other in the virtual space and they ghost out of the way of the selected window if it is behind them, so you can work with a bunch of windows stacked front to back. I have enjoyed leaving things like the economist app open in front of a couch in another room and then walking in there to sit down when I’m taking a break from work. I also have been super productive sitting on my bed immersed in the white sands environment watching developers videos and reading docs in safari etc.

uicompat 3y ago

This was a great demo, and the spatial computing stuff is cool, but what? He’s showing off that he has a big screen tv playing a video, overlayed over his big screen tv, playing a video without anyone watching it. He shows video playing cooking tutorials in his kitchen when he and his partner are both in other rooms working at their desks. A “note” pinned to his fridge, that he can only see while wearing the headset. He shows a screen for playing his music pinned to a wall on the other side of the room. He either has to get up and move to that location to change his music, which is somehow being presented as better than having a tab open on his browser, or he would just use a tab open on his browser and the whole spatial setup is just flashy moot. I once had a desk setup with two screens where I angled one screen aggressively to the left to attempt to stop allowing the corporate chat program to distract my immediate vision and it hospitalized me with a chronic neck injury. This setup is ‘cool’ but I feel like we’ve already trudged these waters. I’m confused by the enthusiasm. Have we all forgot that we’ve been through this “virtual desktop” cycle already? Are these all people that just ignored the previous stereoscopic headsets as “toys” who are seduced into it this time around by APPL’s marketing that this is for “working adults”?

kunai 3y ago
I'm absolutely certain at this point that this video, the video of the kid on the subway, and the guy in the Tesla are all some sort of inorganic viral marketing campaign on Apple's part because they are also aware of how narrow and niche the market for this device is and are terrified it'll have low uptake. It isn't open and interoperable with a bunch of other software like the Quest or Reverb, you can't game on it because there's no SteamVR support, and the projected use cases are ridiculous gimmicks. It's also got a much narrower FoV than initially advertised and is limited to Apple's walled garden. For productivity, why would you pay $3500 for this when you could buy two huge 4K monitors and an impressively powerful PC/Mac instead and still have about 500 bucks left over? It's all so weird. It's like they're trying to make it seem normal to just use this thing out and about when the best applications of VR are interactive simulations and games that are best used indoors in controlled environments. Not a single mixed reality device (Google Glass, HoloLens) by Apple's competitors has ever made this type of use case work, and I have little faith that Apple has somehow overcome all of the obstacles that Google and Microsoft faced.

exitb 3y ago

What happens when you open the fridge door? Does the note move along, or clip through the door, into the fridge?

dansalvato 3y ago
I've done some experimenting with this. If a window is in focus, it occludes real-world objects, even those that are in front of the window. The real-world object becomes maybe 5% visible, so you can just barely see it. If the window is not in focus (like if you're not looking directly at it), then it goes 50/50 with real-world objects, so any real object in front of it becomes sort of a "ghost" in order for you to still be able to see the window. It never tries to occlude apps behind real-world objects, except for your hands, which do full occlusion, as shown in the video.

dansalvato 3y ago

I've been wearing AVP extensively these past few days, experimenting with using it for all kinds of things. As of now, I don't find it more efficient or seamless at doing much of anything. 1. There is no window management whatsoever. It would be great if I could stick apps to each other, or tile them in a frame, but I can't do that. I also can't stack windows—if I put one window behind another, the only way to access it is to move the front window out of the way, or to close it. Kind of ridiculous, because I'm pretty sure that problem was already solved in the early 80s, if not ealier. 2. The field of view is really narrow. I have a 32:9 curved monitor, and I can easily look at the "side" apps by tilting my head just a few degrees, with my eyes doing the rest of the work. AVP demands tilting your head much more in either direction to see the window content, making it much harder to momentarily glance at. 3. I've had awful luck with the MacBook screen projection. Others may not have this issue. After a couple minutes of using it, it begins to heavily stutter to the point of being unusable. The keyboard handoff randomly disconnects. And AVP doesn't yet support bluetooth mice, only trackpads (either the MacBook's built-in trackpad, or a Magic Trackpad). At least for normal desk work, AVP does not improve speed or efficiency in any way—it does the opposite. Hell, when I'm projecting my MacBook screen, I have to resist the temptation to just use desktop apps for everything, because they're so much faster and easier to use than the floating visionOS/iPadOS apps. It's the iPad all over again. If you're a seasoned PC power user, using AVP will only hurt your efficiency in the same way that it would to try offloading some of your work to an iPad. With that said, it does make certain things more enjoyable. Apple clearly didn't make this device as a solution to existing problems. The point is that it's a new relationship that we get to have with technology, which will possibly change the way we want to use technology. But for real, Apple hasn't launched a first-gen product this limited in use since the original iPhone. It has a long way to go before it actually starts making digital life more efficient, except for some highly specialized use cases.

Ancapistani 3y ago
> There is no window management whatsoever. FYI, Immersed is planning on releasing their app for visionOS. According to their employees on Discord, they're expecting that to happen around the end of February. Immersed is by far the best "virtual desktop" app I've ever used, so I expect it will solve most or all of the issues with Apple's implementation at launch. I'm guessing Apple will catch up eventually, but for now, I'd watch Immersed. > But for real, Apple hasn't launched a first-gen product this limited in use since the original iPhone. That's... oddly encouraging to hear. I'm 100% seeing this as a chance to get in on the early days of a new market, approximately of the same scope as the launch of the iPhone.

paxys 3y ago

Not being able to break out and spatially arrange different Mac windows on this thing is a major deal breaker right now. I don’t really care about all the apps published to the store. For real productivity I want a full desktop computer in front of me.

nebulousnights 3y ago
There is a github project that lets you do it. Let me try to find it.... here you go https://github.com/saagarjha/Ensemble https://github.com/saagarjha/Ensemble

12_throw_away 3y ago

So, what's the equivalent of carpal tunnel syndrome, but for your neck? Because that's all I could think about while watching this.

niceice 3y ago
Swole neck. Apple Vision Pro, the cure for tech neck.

micromacrofoot 3y ago

One caveat when watching screen captures like this is that they do not accurately capture the actual field of view, which is more akin to wearing an old pair of ski goggles. The review from The Verge has a simulated view halfway down the page. The screen captures are deceptive and strongly favor Apple's marketing. https://www.theverge.com/24054862/apple-vision-pro-review-vr-ar-headset-features-price https://www.theverge.com/24054862/apple-vision-pro-review-vr... People are nuts for walking around with public in these given how much you're limited, someone's going to get seriously injured because they missed something in their periphery.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

TurkishPoptart 3y ago

I expected a cable dongle and external battery to be dangling off this into his pocket, does AVP no longer require that to be connected for use?

svachalek 3y ago
It's there in the mirror shot. Just not as prominent as people expect maybe.
wkat4242 3y ago
It is. There isn't even a tiny battery that can last a couple minutes while you swap batteries. I would have expected at least that.

miiiiiike 3y ago

Took about 90 minutes for me to decide to send the Vision Pro back.

lostmsu 3y ago
This would be more useful with "why"
- miiiiiike 3y ago
  Use it for 90 minutes, you’ll get it.

swozey 3y ago

Are these in every apple store to demo or are they so low volume they're all for sale?

criddell 3y ago
Demoing is hard because of the vision prescription (if needed) and the face scan required to get the light seals right. These things aren’t really designed for sharing. But you can buy one and if it isn’t what you hoped for, you can return it within 14 days. In my experience, returns at Apple are quick and easy.
- dkonofalski 3y ago
  Apple has the prescription lenses in the stores. If you bring your glasses, they have a device that will shine some lights through your glasses to determine your prescription and pop out the correct lenses needed for the Vision demo.
  - wkat4242 3y ago
    I wonder how do they manage that with all the corrections needed like for astigmatism? That's a huge range of combinations.
    - dkonofalski 3y ago
      The intake form asks for certain things (like prism vision) and it also asks if you know your prescription ahead of time. I can't imagine that they'll have all of those specific fixes but, for the majority of people, you can simply go in and get the right prescriptions lenses. They even email you a link to get your specific prescription of lenses after the demo.
remh 3y ago
they are but you might need to book a time slot
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

fortran77 3y ago

Can it work at all with non-Apple computers?

htk 3y ago

Cool demo to show friends but I didn't learn anything new from this video. I was expecting something on the lines of how legible text is in the floating mac display, if the interaction between ipad apps/mac apps works well, is it better to use mac or ipad versions of apps, etc.

lostmsu 3y ago
At least on the video the text does not look crisp.

haburka 3y ago

Two things hidden from this view: 1. There is absurd motion blur whenever you move your head. This has to be some nausea prevention technique but it is extremely frustrating if you’re trying to look back and forth between screens. No setting for this of course because it’s apple. 2. You can have only one window that’s a virtual desktop. Everything else has to be a iOS app so that means you cant have a window for coding and for viewing the result in chrome unless you want to figure out how to code on iOS which does not have a vscode app! In general, everything being on iOS is an extreme nerf to its capabilities as a decent peripheral. It’s an iPad on your face. Do you want to figure out how to do your daily work on an iPad? If the virtual desktop was fully featured then it might be usable. Finally the windows are not curved which is worse than my meat space curved ultra wide monitor.

wkat4242 3y ago
> Finally the windows are not curved which is worse than my meat space curved ultra wide monitor. This one seems easily fixed. The Quest can already do this, you can choose if you want them curved or not. The others I imagine will be harder to fix but I agree they are big impediments for serious productivity.

fgsfds028374 3y ago

[dead]

lttlrck 3y ago

As a user of i3 and more recently sway for years now, there is no way I could adapt to this. I'd take a huge efficiency hit. Turning my head is for looking out the window or talking to colleagues/family...

timetraveller26 3y ago

Is this Microsoft Bob?

whoopsie 3y ago

Owner since Friday morning and developer with normally 17k pixels on 4 screens. If you’re seeking to 1:1 your existing flow, not yet. While my Studio Ultra delivers a lag-free crystal clear feed to the VP, not all “non IDE” apps work well in AVP native windows yet. But, if you exploit the strengths of the platform, it’s quite nice. I physically walk to my analytics station, meeting station, and programming station. The walking helps me think more intentionally between tasks. It is absolutely slower than multitasking IRL, but faster in terms of thought clarity. Like ideas in the shower. I’ve found a good part of two work days has been better spent in the Vision Pro. I doubt every work day will be the same. I wish I could walk between git work trees.

beefnugs 3y ago

I feel like technology always has a "this is not what i want" problem to huge portions of users. Why haven't we come up with amazing new ways of incredibly fast feedback? user: "send feedback : i want to quickly switch between windows and I cant seem to do this" developer : "Hey look here we have 3700 users who want faster task switching features" (submit task request to upper management) (approved) a month later, "hey user 7 feedbacks in the last month may have been solved, slap the naked zuckerberg dingus in your home area to hear more"

euroderf 3y ago

OT, but: Gruber makes the point [1] that AVP uses indirect manipulation, where the iPhone uses direct. "You don’t reach out and grab a window bar to move the window." So I have to wonder, did it occur to Apple to try direct manipulation ? The basis would be to emulate Reed Richards a.k.a. Mr Fantastic (elastic). [1] https://daringfireball.net/2024/02/simple_tricks_and_nonsense https://daringfireball.net/2024/02/simple_tricks_and_nonsens...

joshstrange 3y ago

At the end of the day the Apple Vision Pro is an iPad with an infinite screen and window management. If you can work on an iPad you can work better in the AVP. That’s not the case for me and it’s not the case for many people here at least. The AVP is an amazing content consumption device but not at the current price point IMHO. I’ve written daily about my experience with the AVP [0] and I’ve come to the conclusion that I don’t think it’s for me right now. I have zero doubt I will buy a future iteration of this device but this version doesn’t cut it for me. I went in eyes wide open, no pun intended, to the AVP. I knew from the start that it was a v1, early version, and essentially a dev kit++. I said in comments here on HN that returning it was always on the table for me. I’m going to give it a few more days but as things stand now, be retuning mine. Apple has created something magical and they knocked it out of the park but it needs improvements to become something I want to wear all the time. Improvements that I believe that Apple will make, that’s Apple’s super power, commitment. They don’t always follow through (the Mac for many years or things like the HomePod) but when they do they create amazing things. Heck, the iPad is something I build on top of (as does my company) because I/we know Apple is committed to it in a way that you can’t say for any other tablet maker. I can’t wait for fitter iterations of this device and for it to have its retina/iPhone 4 moment. [0] https://joshstrange.com https://joshstrange.com

Terretta 3y ago
Having used iPad Pro as daily driver since release of magic keyboard with trackpad, I agree with this take. In particular, if you already use the new iPadOS "Stage Manager" with your business, productivity, and code apps in workspace clusters, you can use all the same apps, tools, and workflows as easily, plus spatial affordances. Note that any iPad app, if pulled close to you to be about iPad sized within half an arm's reach, can be touched, scrolled, manipulated as if a literal iPad screen. This even works with apps such as Microsoft Whiteboard within Teams, you can write on the shared whiteboard with your fingertip. Of course, lack of solidity makes this far less precise than the literal iPad. If you find the iPad Pro w/ Magic Keyboard and Trackpad and the Stage Manager approach to multi-task work constraining relative to laptop, you will be even less happy with AVP. PS. This laptop and tablet case is one of the slimmest that carries both Macbook Pro 16" together with iPad Pro 13" in its Magic Keyboard w/ Trackpad "case" sleekly with plenty of space for all accessories: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07Y2Y9PYM/ https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07Y2Y9PYM/ It has a particularly nice pull strap that lifts the iPad out from the iPad slot. Carrying this case means you always have both with you. If your use of the iPad is so comfortable you prefer to reach for that over the Macbook for most things even when both are at hand, going to the Macbook only when you need to do something in terminal you can't do in Blink shell, you will probably be fine for remote work using AVP.