11 ms·

How to do things if you're not that smart and don't have any talent

356 points by mhb 3y ago

anigbrowl 3y ago
Dense, practical advice - well worth bookmarking.
malux85 3y ago
“Most people who are talented or smart are scared of doing things” I have noticed this a lot in my career, I think it’s because these people self identify as smart/talented and every time you attempt some task, there is the possibility of failure - and for the “smart” person, failing at a task takes a stab at the heart of their identity. Self cushioning in a cloud of rationales “well, I can’t do X but at least I’m smart” means that if “being smart” is ever questioned, the possibility of them failing terrifies them. This causes a paralysis. Its total nonsense of course - the path to any success is littered with failures - failures are prerequisites of success, and are not optional. I was an A student in school but I wasn’t naturally an A, I had to work for it, and I watched myself pass all of the “natural As” who snickered at me, told me my ideas were impossible, and then tried to join in when I showed them they weren’t. This went on throughout my career and is even happening now, there are people MUCH smarter than me at work, but through sheer willpower, grit and never giving up I have already achieved what they were telling me was impossible a year ago. This includes people like heads of departments at top tier universities - I was told my one that my idea on catalysis prediction was crazy and wouldn’t work - this man was the head of a certain department at an A-Tier US university, working in catalysis for 20 years, 6 months later, I have achieved it. Just keep working, asking questions, and adjusting course every day. If you’re gritty enough you can do it. I often wonder if this kind of “identity bounding” as well as “fear permutations” are the downward pressures on intellect in the Darwinian sense
- hooo 3y ago
  Can you share what you achieved? Your prose makes a lot of sense. I’m curious if it’s from experience or just sounds good.
- qup 3y ago
  I think the key difference is about adjusting course. The smart people make better adjustments. But you can make up for it by making more adjustments than they do. I've been lucky in that I've always loved experimenting, tinkering. The solution eventually presents itself.
- crooked-v 3y ago
  As one of those 'naturally smart' types, part of the trouble there for me is that everything is easy right up until it isn't. I was well into college before I ever had to actually study or prepare or do second drafts on anything at all to succeed, and for obvious reasons I sucked at it and crashed and burned completely with several subjects before I got any kind of grip on things.
  - wharvle 3y ago
    The good news is that addressing this kind of thing is the hot topic in gifted education, and has been for some time. The “I suddenly got very dumb” story’s nigh-universality has been noticed, and they’re working on fixing it. The bad news is that you may have been too early for that. Well, and also that I’m not sure how effective efforts to address it have actually been.
  - gonzo41 3y ago
    Grit is a trully underrated skill.
- akprasad 3y ago
  > for the “smart” person, failing at a task takes a stab at the heart of their identity. Self cushioning in a cloud of rationales “well, I can’t do X but at least I’m smart” means that if “being smart” is ever questioned, the possibility of them failing terrifies them. Yes, I see it much the same way. If you're curious, I wrote about a related theme a few years ago here [1]. > When the work is uncertain, she withers: uncertainty means the unknown, which means risk, which means failure, which means she's worthless. The thought of fumbling in the void terrifies her. [1]: https://arunkprasad.com/log/unlearning-perfectionism/ https://arunkprasad.com/log/unlearning-perfectionism/
- blooalien 3y ago
  Most people that I've taught (sometimes fairly advanced) computer skills to have been held back up to that point almost entirely by their own fears. First actions I've always taken is whatever I gotta do or say to get them past those fears so that the actual learning can begin. Once they're no longer scared of the subject matter at hand, they almost always have no troubles actually grasping the concepts (as long as they're explained in terms that make sense to them). Lotta folks are a lot smarter'n they give themselves credit for, even about things they think they can't understand, but their fears create a sort of self-fulfilling prophecy of failure.
broth 3y ago
I think most of the tips outlined in this article make sense for anyone wanting to succeed at something regardless of their talents or intellect. I think the working hard mentality should be approached with gumption and attention to detail as this can lead to high quality results.
pk-protect-ai 3y ago
Summary of the text: "How to herd a heard of nerds?"
- corethree 3y ago
  Given how people on HN think they're so smart I'm surprised this article got voted up. Usually it's some article about how high IQ correlates with people who drink water. They just vote up the article for self validation. Now it's an article for the Narutos of the world. Guess a good number of people think they're stupid. I think both sides are wrong.
  - the_only_law 3y ago
    > Guess a good number of people think they're stupid. My guess is it's mostly feigned humility and midwit cope.
  - Jensson 3y ago
    You must be new here, hard work beating talent is an extremely popular topic. People mostly reads these and see themselves as the superior side, if it is an article about hard work beating talent people see themselves as the hard worker, if it is an article about smart people doing X then of course the reader is on the smart side etc. So an article on how most hard work is wasted since it wasn't well thought out would also be popular since there the reader would view his hard work as fruitful and only dumber people than them are wasting their time. It is only when you start to poke hole in that self image people have built up that the downvotes starts to come. Most people aren't significantly smarter than their peer, most peoples hard work isn't well directed, but they don't want to hear those things.
    - corethree 3y ago
      No there's a lot of articles on IQ and intelligence. Less on hard work. Mainly because most people on here are programmers and the job and interview is related to intelligence. People who take pride in there programming skill think they're intelligent. As a programmer myself I think most programmers are average. Programming isn't a very hard job imo. It doesn't require a huge amount of intelligence hence the reason why it's one of the few occupations that can be entered without a degree, with self training, or a bootcamp. People think this is a field that requires high intelligence. This is false. It's a field that requires slightly above average intelligence mostly. It depends on your specialty but for the typical web dev software engineer it's more closer to average.
e2021 3y ago
This is good advice, but I think it is for people who think they are not smart, but are actually just inexperienced. I feel like someone who was actually not smart would have trouble executing on these steps
- AnotherGoodName 3y ago
  A group I've encountered that this could help are those without tenacity. I have smart friends who are hugely into tech who somehow remained unemployable even during the boom times in that industry. I try and try to push them towards opportunities but they argue 'I just have no natural talent for that' and stop before they even get started. Eg. they tried programming for 3 days, still hadn't fully groked it (because no one does in that amount of time!) and gave up with the above line. Somewhat frustrating to deal with as a friend and also clear cut in what's holding them back as an outside observer: they simply aren't aggressively fighting internal and external demons that tell them they aren't good enough for something. The mere suggestion that you can't possibly do something should fill you with burning determination and it's a positive emotion to feel in that scenario but they seem to just roll over.
  - peterfirefly 3y ago
    > 'I just have no natural talent for that' I thought all my life that I had no talent for video games. I recently installed Doom II (bought for around 2€ on the Microsoft Store) and two weeks later gzDoom. I did play around a bit with Doom 30 years ago and thought the graphics was nice but I wasn't good at it, was never going to be good at it, and it also wasn't all that interesting. About a month after the install I'm a fairly decent Doom player. I can complete all the three original Doom episodes (and the first one on Ultraviolence). Turns out I just never practiced enough -- and I didn't even need much of it!
  - SwiftyBug 3y ago
    > The mere suggestion that you can't possibly do something should fill you with burning determination I have not once felt that. I guess people just approach challenges differently.
  - 3y ago
draw_down 3y ago
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maxverse 3y ago
I'm a big believer in the fact that you have to hear the right lesson in the right way from the right source. This piece might not resonate with everyone, but it really spoke to me. I needed to hear it.
vidyesh 3y ago
This is really interesting but I disagree that this advice only applies to the "not smart" folks and likely applies to everyone, I like to think everyone is smart in their own domain until they are not the only smart person in the room. If you ask a smart person do the grunt work for their own work, they will be scared,a little clueless and might feel its unnecessary too but someone smarter than them asks them to do all this for them. The then smart person now thinks that they could help the smarter person achieve something they themselves cannot, extending their own intellect which will help them become a little smarter. I think the range of being smart of most people is very wide, extending all the time.
paxys 3y ago
From my experience in the tech industry I can say with utmost confidence that "not smart"/"talentless" people who are determined and hard-working lead to significantly better real world results than geniuses who are lazy, unmotivated or overall not action oriented. The vast majority of problems at any company are easy and don't need any big technological breakthroughs to solve. They are instead held back by (1) lack of effort or (2) lack of organization. If you can manage either (or preferably both) you will have a good career in the industry.
- chii 3y ago
  > (1) lack of effort or (2) lack of organization. (3) lack of reward I say the former 2 is caused by 3. Why would anyone put in over-time to solve a problem, if they dont know how well they'd get rewarded by it? It's why small/founder owned startups get more done with less, because they know themselves how much reward they'd get when putting in the hard yards.
  - iSnow 3y ago
    Small groups of like-minded people (from the same cultural and social background) move faster because they have less friction and a shared mission statement. That is something that translates badly to bigger groups, no matter the reward. Us tech guys already get rewarded with great working conditions and good pay.
    - jraph 3y ago
      > already get rewarded with great working conditions and good pay In addition to those, having clues that my work is appreciated (by colleagues / customers / users) plays a big role as well.
      - HPsquared 3y ago
        Making an effort in general (in all things: dressing well, speaking well, working hard) is almost completely a social activity. If there's nobody to impress, it's 10x harder to motivate myself. You end up having to imagine a hypothetical future person that your effort would impress, which is much less convincing to the lizard brain.
eddy_chan 3y ago
I think the writer just suffers a huge case of imposter syndrome! Most seemingly 'smart' and 'talented' people are just people who know that 'Hard work beats talent when talent fails to work hard'
- wharvle 3y ago
  I’m pretty sure the entire premise is more than a little facetious, and the author already knows this.
  - Jgrubb 3y ago
    I don’t think it’s facetious, I think it’s inspirational to point out that most of the time it’s just about hard work and doing the jobs nobody else is/wants to be doing.
AlbertCory 3y ago
Definitely one of the best headlines ever. I'm reminded of the hero in Idiocracy who claimed, "Whenever someone said 'lead, follow, or get out of way', I got out of the way."
senectus1 3y ago
I'd add only one thing: Be the person that solves problems. Employers want people that can solve their problems. they may not even care how it gets solved... as long as they problem they have will get solved so they can move forward. Often this takes talent and skill, but in my live I've found that sheer bloody minded persistence and doing things the hard way will often be exactly what is needed and appreciated.
- RHSman2 3y ago
  The ability to encourage others/organise and cut through the ‘swamp’. Is it intelligence? Absolute intelligence measured by results, not by IQ.
- krackers 3y ago
  Maybe also "be the one who understands the problem." Often times the problem that actually needs to be solved may be simpler than the problem you're tasked with solving, and being a small-brained person can help you from getting bogged down in unnecessary complexities.
punkspider 3y ago
Some of the author's other articles are worth reading as well. I read them instead of focusing on work and 100% don't regret it.
- ketzo 3y ago
  Hey no kidding, some pretty insightful stuff in their more newsletter/blog-y posts. Their medical research is way over my head but also seems extremely cool. Thanks for the rec!
RHSman2 3y ago
Building momentum is the number one thing.
satisfice 3y ago
Speaking as a talented person who has never been as talented as I dreamed to be— this is a great article.
gniv 3y ago
If you want to do big things, there is something else: borrow one or more smart persons. I was once part of an infrastructure project that I (and others on it) simply didn't know how to advance. At some point a few really smart folks got into a room and thought hard about it, and wrote a detailed roadmap. It was still hard to implement, but doable by us mortals. Sometimes you just have to admit defeat and ask for help.
- iSnow 3y ago
  Asking for help is completely underrated in a professional context, I feel. Too many attach their self-esteem to never asking.
zubairq 3y ago
Getting results or becoming rich has a magical property where overnight you are viewed as turning into a genius! ;) Having persistence and constantly monitoring yourself so that I did't get trapped in the weeds! That's how I got stuff done anyway, and I've never been considered very talented or smart! Except of course after I started to get results, at which point some people started to consider I was talented and smart :)
arisAlexis 3y ago
There could be a psychology study on how fast and who pressed or not on the link
- Applejinx 3y ago
  …and how many self-help books they have purchased over the course of their lives :) I'm certainly guilty of the latter, and recognized the link as something that would scratch that still-relevant itch. Though I've grown out of compulsively chasing the purple cow :)
  - arisAlexis 3y ago
    Also because clicking is a kind of admission that you are not that smart :)
devnonymous 3y ago
Great head fake of an article! These are exactly the things that make smart people smart!
- iSnow 3y ago
  Right? There's a lot in that for actually average to smart people who just struggle with the daily grind. e.g. making sure you reduce friction for the team (they give some example with antibody prep time, but it could also be build pipelines, or onboarding docs) is something a lead developer should have in mind and either do herself or create a ticket so it gets done.
wslh 3y ago
I always wonder why these articles are focused on the individual rather than teams or organizations. It is easier to leverage intelligence in a good organized team that individually. Even if it is an individual with enough resources (e.g. social capital) it he/she can recognize its own weakness and left other solve thos problems where you are not good or capable at. This is the importance of the vision (what) rather than the "how". The secret in execution is balancing these two things beyond focusing in the individual talent that is more connected with ego. For example, if suddenly you want to build and indy game and don't know about games but you have a good idea, team up with other people who know about that. Last, if time is not a hard pressure be patient. Look for example at people who apend years polishing ideas and creating software that is a craft [1]. [1] https://store.steampowered.com/app/1624540/Storyteller/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/1624540/Storyteller/
gadders 3y ago
"Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard."
robviren 3y ago
I am sad that I have but one up vote. I have made a career out of some of the behaviors described here. Asking dumb questions has saved me countless bad outcomes on projects. Being bold and just talking with the people who use the tools you build. So much of these soft skills are just ignored for being able to code a freaking linked list or some nonsense on a whiteboard.
- vixen99 3y ago
  Yes and of course they weren't dumb questions. As a young student beginning to attend research seminars I remember that it tended to be those at the top of the academic pecking order who asked the supposedly dumb questions most of us thought would likely make us look stupid.
jonplackett 3y ago
I'd love to share this article with a bunch of people - but I reckon they'd all take it as an insult!
StopHammoTime 3y ago
This is just good advice in general. The number one thing that has led to my career success (albeit at the cost of much stress) is following my Grandfather's adage: "Someone has to do it, and it might as well be me." I struggle day-to-day to convey to engineers that a grind is required, and sometimes work just needs to be done. People would rather take 60 hours writing a script, instead of just doing work that takes 10 hours (and I'm not even being facetious with that estimate).
- tonyedgecombe 3y ago
  You have to be careful though, otherwise you could end up being the guy who looks after all the printers.
  - Sammi 3y ago
    Be careful what you're good at is good advise. But be good at something is also good advice :)
lkadjal 3y ago
> Be audacious. Most people who are talented or smart are scared of doing things. I’m not sure why that is, but it’s more often than not the case. Because they are book smart. As in raised in right conditions and sent to the right schools. Also not smart enough to actually realise they will die one day and contemplate on that. They are focused on resume and status building as if they are eternal. Common traits involves plugging a lot of keywords while talking, posting a lot on twitter/linkedin/instagram etc If they do realise their own mortality they won't be so scared and not afraid to do anything meaningful.
MontgomeryPi2 3y ago
The article made me think of General Kurt von Hammerstein-Equord's officer classification: "I distinguish four types. There are clever, hardworking, stupid, and lazy officers. Usually two characteristics are combined. Some are clever and hardworking; their place is the General Staff. The next ones are stupid and lazy; they make up 90 percent of every army and are suited to routine duties. Anyone who is both clever and lazy is qualified for the highest leadership duties, because he possesses the mental clarity and strength of nerve necessary for difficult decisions. One must beware of anyone who is both stupid and hardworking; he must not be entrusted with any responsibility because he will always only cause damage."
- Jensson 3y ago
  That jives very well with the first point: "Be audacious. Most people who are talented or smart are scared of doing things." In general smart people want to understand what they are doing before they do it. This means you can often beat them at a task by simply doing without understanding, which is why General Kurt told us to be wary about such people.
  - nine_k 3y ago
    Doing without understanding usually misses some "obvious" detail, and that makes the whole thing a lot less useful, if not harmful.
    - mistermann 3y ago
      A concrete but flawed implementation can also be an excellent catalyst for brighter minds, gives them something newer to focus on, discuss, iterate on, etc.
  - rgavuliak 3y ago
    Yeah, I've seen too many bs created by people that thought they were much smarter than in reality.
    - 3y ago
iLoveOncall 3y ago
Here's another blog post that got popular on HN a few years ago and explains how doing much of what this article advises (not all) will get you nowhere: https://noidea.dog/glue https://noidea.dog/glue I don't think either are fully right or wrong, but I thought it was interesting to see the difference of opinion.
nycodez 3y ago
[flagged]
bamboozled 3y ago
discipline and perseverance
jroseattle 3y ago
I'm not sure if this was intended to "flip the script" on the talented & smart, as this is sage advice for any entrepreneur. It wouldn't surprise me if the author was trying to give the "T&S" permission to do things without getting in the way of themselves. I recently completed a project on behalf of a privately-held company in the financial sector. Big, successful, and very corporate. The owner (a single individual) was in town and spoke to a few leaders (biz, tech, marketing) in my group. His message: get in the weeds, learn the business, understand every function, ask questions, get outside your comfort zone, be persistent, act with urgency, and finish things. (Those were literally my notes from that meeting.) He gave his team room to do the things necessary to let their talent & smartness be most effective.
throw7 3y ago
An entrance plaque at "Schoellkopf Power Station" reads: to know what to do... wisdom to know how to do it... skill to do the thing as it should be done is ... service ...
cschep 3y ago
Great article. I felt like I was reading a guide on how to properly interact with the perfection monster in my own brain. Perhaps believing you're not smart and don't have talent leads to better work anyway! Clever. Great read.
kleton 3y ago
Was curious about the author: > I'd always admired Adaobi Adibe from many of our interactions. Whenever our paths crossed, I found that she spoke with a frankness and transparency that was rare to find, and often reiterated the importance of authenticity even in the most challenging of spaces. Her curiosity led her to build Jargon, technology which translates online jargon and makes information more accessible to the masses. She's also a researcher exploring organ manufacturing, and is currently undertaking a fellowship with the Old Vic. Adaobi is a woman with a great mind, but equally a woman on a mission. > At the age of 25, she has end-stage kidney failure. It's a life threatening condition which has had a considerable impact on her day-to-day life. However, it has also considerably altered her pursuits too. In her mission to build great things, kidney failure was not enough to deter her from her work, and in fact was inspired to look into solutions for end-stage kidney failure, and the distrust in medical professionalism which runs rampant in Black communities. Meet Adaobi - a woman on a mission.
prmoustache 3y ago
What about people who seem to be able to do things on their own but when they ask for help they turn totally stupid? Like I have a guy in my company who seems to handle some stuff well, but obviously for things where he lacks knowledge would often seek help. And then if you have him in a videocall, telling him how you think you would do he just turn into a robot that just type what you ask him to do with no sign of understanding what he is doing, like he put himself in cruise control mode.
RecycledEle 3y ago
I disagree with everything the author says. You do not have to be successful in any time frame. Just put in tine learning. Make one small goal after another, and burn hours until you are pretty good. People who are "natural athletes" often just spent their childhood practicing every sport they knew about. "Natural engineers" aften spent their childhood playing with test equipment. They git good through many years of practice not through being loud or audacious.

356 points by mhb 3y ago

Dense, practical advice - well worth bookmarking.

“Most people who are talented or smart are scared of doing things” I have noticed this a lot in my career, I think it’s because these people self identify as smart/talented and every time you attempt some task, there is the possibility of failure - and for the “smart” person, failing at a task takes a stab at the heart of their identity. Self cushioning in a cloud of rationales “well, I can’t do X but at least I’m smart” means that if “being smart” is ever questioned, the possibility of them failing terrifies them. This causes a paralysis. Its total nonsense of course - the path to any success is littered with failures - failures are prerequisites of success, and are not optional. I was an A student in school but I wasn’t naturally an A, I had to work for it, and I watched myself pass all of the “natural As” who snickered at me, told me my ideas were impossible, and then tried to join in when I showed them they weren’t. This went on throughout my career and is even happening now, there are people MUCH smarter than me at work, but through sheer willpower, grit and never giving up I have already achieved what they were telling me was impossible a year ago. This includes people like heads of departments at top tier universities - I was told my one that my idea on catalysis prediction was crazy and wouldn’t work - this man was the head of a certain department at an A-Tier US university, working in catalysis for 20 years, 6 months later, I have achieved it. Just keep working, asking questions, and adjusting course every day. If you’re gritty enough you can do it. I often wonder if this kind of “identity bounding” as well as “fear permutations” are the downward pressures on intellect in the Darwinian sense

hooo 3y ago
Can you share what you achieved? Your prose makes a lot of sense. I’m curious if it’s from experience or just sounds good.
qup 3y ago
I think the key difference is about adjusting course. The smart people make better adjustments. But you can make up for it by making more adjustments than they do. I've been lucky in that I've always loved experimenting, tinkering. The solution eventually presents itself.
crooked-v 3y ago
As one of those 'naturally smart' types, part of the trouble there for me is that everything is easy right up until it isn't. I was well into college before I ever had to actually study or prepare or do second drafts on anything at all to succeed, and for obvious reasons I sucked at it and crashed and burned completely with several subjects before I got any kind of grip on things.
- wharvle 3y ago
  The good news is that addressing this kind of thing is the hot topic in gifted education, and has been for some time. The “I suddenly got very dumb” story’s nigh-universality has been noticed, and they’re working on fixing it. The bad news is that you may have been too early for that. Well, and also that I’m not sure how effective efforts to address it have actually been.
- gonzo41 3y ago
  Grit is a trully underrated skill.
akprasad 3y ago
> for the “smart” person, failing at a task takes a stab at the heart of their identity. Self cushioning in a cloud of rationales “well, I can’t do X but at least I’m smart” means that if “being smart” is ever questioned, the possibility of them failing terrifies them. Yes, I see it much the same way. If you're curious, I wrote about a related theme a few years ago here [1]. > When the work is uncertain, she withers: uncertainty means the unknown, which means risk, which means failure, which means she's worthless. The thought of fumbling in the void terrifies her. [1]: https://arunkprasad.com/log/unlearning-perfectionism/ https://arunkprasad.com/log/unlearning-perfectionism/
blooalien 3y ago
Most people that I've taught (sometimes fairly advanced) computer skills to have been held back up to that point almost entirely by their own fears. First actions I've always taken is whatever I gotta do or say to get them past those fears so that the actual learning can begin. Once they're no longer scared of the subject matter at hand, they almost always have no troubles actually grasping the concepts (as long as they're explained in terms that make sense to them). Lotta folks are a lot smarter'n they give themselves credit for, even about things they think they can't understand, but their fears create a sort of self-fulfilling prophecy of failure.

broth 3y ago

I think most of the tips outlined in this article make sense for anyone wanting to succeed at something regardless of their talents or intellect. I think the working hard mentality should be approached with gumption and attention to detail as this can lead to high quality results.

pk-protect-ai 3y ago

Summary of the text: "How to herd a heard of nerds?"

corethree 3y ago
Given how people on HN think they're so smart I'm surprised this article got voted up. Usually it's some article about how high IQ correlates with people who drink water. They just vote up the article for self validation. Now it's an article for the Narutos of the world. Guess a good number of people think they're stupid. I think both sides are wrong.
- the_only_law 3y ago
  > Guess a good number of people think they're stupid. My guess is it's mostly feigned humility and midwit cope.
- Jensson 3y ago
  You must be new here, hard work beating talent is an extremely popular topic. People mostly reads these and see themselves as the superior side, if it is an article about hard work beating talent people see themselves as the hard worker, if it is an article about smart people doing X then of course the reader is on the smart side etc. So an article on how most hard work is wasted since it wasn't well thought out would also be popular since there the reader would view his hard work as fruitful and only dumber people than them are wasting their time. It is only when you start to poke hole in that self image people have built up that the downvotes starts to come. Most people aren't significantly smarter than their peer, most peoples hard work isn't well directed, but they don't want to hear those things.
  - corethree 3y ago
    No there's a lot of articles on IQ and intelligence. Less on hard work. Mainly because most people on here are programmers and the job and interview is related to intelligence. People who take pride in there programming skill think they're intelligent. As a programmer myself I think most programmers are average. Programming isn't a very hard job imo. It doesn't require a huge amount of intelligence hence the reason why it's one of the few occupations that can be entered without a degree, with self training, or a bootcamp. People think this is a field that requires high intelligence. This is false. It's a field that requires slightly above average intelligence mostly. It depends on your specialty but for the typical web dev software engineer it's more closer to average.

e2021 3y ago

This is good advice, but I think it is for people who think they are not smart, but are actually just inexperienced. I feel like someone who was actually not smart would have trouble executing on these steps

AnotherGoodName 3y ago
A group I've encountered that this could help are those without tenacity. I have smart friends who are hugely into tech who somehow remained unemployable even during the boom times in that industry. I try and try to push them towards opportunities but they argue 'I just have no natural talent for that' and stop before they even get started. Eg. they tried programming for 3 days, still hadn't fully groked it (because no one does in that amount of time!) and gave up with the above line. Somewhat frustrating to deal with as a friend and also clear cut in what's holding them back as an outside observer: they simply aren't aggressively fighting internal and external demons that tell them they aren't good enough for something. The mere suggestion that you can't possibly do something should fill you with burning determination and it's a positive emotion to feel in that scenario but they seem to just roll over.
- peterfirefly 3y ago
  > 'I just have no natural talent for that' I thought all my life that I had no talent for video games. I recently installed Doom II (bought for around 2€ on the Microsoft Store) and two weeks later gzDoom. I did play around a bit with Doom 30 years ago and thought the graphics was nice but I wasn't good at it, was never going to be good at it, and it also wasn't all that interesting. About a month after the install I'm a fairly decent Doom player. I can complete all the three original Doom episodes (and the first one on Ultraviolence). Turns out I just never practiced enough -- and I didn't even need much of it!
- SwiftyBug 3y ago
  > The mere suggestion that you can't possibly do something should fill you with burning determination I have not once felt that. I guess people just approach challenges differently.
- 3y ago

draw_down 3y ago

[dead]

maxverse 3y ago

I'm a big believer in the fact that you have to hear the right lesson in the right way from the right source. This piece might not resonate with everyone, but it really spoke to me. I needed to hear it.

vidyesh 3y ago

This is really interesting but I disagree that this advice only applies to the "not smart" folks and likely applies to everyone, I like to think everyone is smart in their own domain until they are not the only smart person in the room. If you ask a smart person do the grunt work for their own work, they will be scared,a little clueless and might feel its unnecessary too but someone smarter than them asks them to do all this for them. The then smart person now thinks that they could help the smarter person achieve something they themselves cannot, extending their own intellect which will help them become a little smarter. I think the range of being smart of most people is very wide, extending all the time.

paxys 3y ago

From my experience in the tech industry I can say with utmost confidence that "not smart"/"talentless" people who are determined and hard-working lead to significantly better real world results than geniuses who are lazy, unmotivated or overall not action oriented. The vast majority of problems at any company are easy and don't need any big technological breakthroughs to solve. They are instead held back by (1) lack of effort or (2) lack of organization. If you can manage either (or preferably both) you will have a good career in the industry.

chii 3y ago
> (1) lack of effort or (2) lack of organization. (3) lack of reward I say the former 2 is caused by 3. Why would anyone put in over-time to solve a problem, if they dont know how well they'd get rewarded by it? It's why small/founder owned startups get more done with less, because they know themselves how much reward they'd get when putting in the hard yards.
- iSnow 3y ago
  Small groups of like-minded people (from the same cultural and social background) move faster because they have less friction and a shared mission statement. That is something that translates badly to bigger groups, no matter the reward. Us tech guys already get rewarded with great working conditions and good pay.
  - jraph 3y ago
    > already get rewarded with great working conditions and good pay In addition to those, having clues that my work is appreciated (by colleagues / customers / users) plays a big role as well.
    - HPsquared 3y ago
      Making an effort in general (in all things: dressing well, speaking well, working hard) is almost completely a social activity. If there's nobody to impress, it's 10x harder to motivate myself. You end up having to imagine a hypothetical future person that your effort would impress, which is much less convincing to the lizard brain.

eddy_chan 3y ago

I think the writer just suffers a huge case of imposter syndrome! Most seemingly 'smart' and 'talented' people are just people who know that 'Hard work beats talent when talent fails to work hard'

wharvle 3y ago
I’m pretty sure the entire premise is more than a little facetious, and the author already knows this.
- Jgrubb 3y ago
  I don’t think it’s facetious, I think it’s inspirational to point out that most of the time it’s just about hard work and doing the jobs nobody else is/wants to be doing.

AlbertCory 3y ago

Definitely one of the best headlines ever. I'm reminded of the hero in Idiocracy who claimed, "Whenever someone said 'lead, follow, or get out of way', I got out of the way."

senectus1 3y ago

I'd add only one thing: Be the person that solves problems. Employers want people that can solve their problems. they may not even care how it gets solved... as long as they problem they have will get solved so they can move forward. Often this takes talent and skill, but in my live I've found that sheer bloody minded persistence and doing things the hard way will often be exactly what is needed and appreciated.

RHSman2 3y ago
The ability to encourage others/organise and cut through the ‘swamp’. Is it intelligence? Absolute intelligence measured by results, not by IQ.
krackers 3y ago
Maybe also "be the one who understands the problem." Often times the problem that actually needs to be solved may be simpler than the problem you're tasked with solving, and being a small-brained person can help you from getting bogged down in unnecessary complexities.

punkspider 3y ago

Some of the author's other articles are worth reading as well. I read them instead of focusing on work and 100% don't regret it.

ketzo 3y ago
Hey no kidding, some pretty insightful stuff in their more newsletter/blog-y posts. Their medical research is way over my head but also seems extremely cool. Thanks for the rec!

RHSman2 3y ago

Building momentum is the number one thing.

satisfice 3y ago

Speaking as a talented person who has never been as talented as I dreamed to be— this is a great article.

gniv 3y ago

If you want to do big things, there is something else: borrow one or more smart persons. I was once part of an infrastructure project that I (and others on it) simply didn't know how to advance. At some point a few really smart folks got into a room and thought hard about it, and wrote a detailed roadmap. It was still hard to implement, but doable by us mortals. Sometimes you just have to admit defeat and ask for help.

iSnow 3y ago
Asking for help is completely underrated in a professional context, I feel. Too many attach their self-esteem to never asking.

zubairq 3y ago

Getting results or becoming rich has a magical property where overnight you are viewed as turning into a genius! ;) Having persistence and constantly monitoring yourself so that I did't get trapped in the weeds! That's how I got stuff done anyway, and I've never been considered very talented or smart! Except of course after I started to get results, at which point some people started to consider I was talented and smart :)

arisAlexis 3y ago

There could be a psychology study on how fast and who pressed or not on the link

Applejinx 3y ago
…and how many self-help books they have purchased over the course of their lives :) I'm certainly guilty of the latter, and recognized the link as something that would scratch that still-relevant itch. Though I've grown out of compulsively chasing the purple cow :)
- arisAlexis 3y ago
  Also because clicking is a kind of admission that you are not that smart :)

devnonymous 3y ago

Great head fake of an article! These are exactly the things that make smart people smart!

iSnow 3y ago
Right? There's a lot in that for actually average to smart people who just struggle with the daily grind. e.g. making sure you reduce friction for the team (they give some example with antibody prep time, but it could also be build pipelines, or onboarding docs) is something a lead developer should have in mind and either do herself or create a ticket so it gets done.

wslh 3y ago

I always wonder why these articles are focused on the individual rather than teams or organizations. It is easier to leverage intelligence in a good organized team that individually. Even if it is an individual with enough resources (e.g. social capital) it he/she can recognize its own weakness and left other solve thos problems where you are not good or capable at. This is the importance of the vision (what) rather than the "how". The secret in execution is balancing these two things beyond focusing in the individual talent that is more connected with ego. For example, if suddenly you want to build and indy game and don't know about games but you have a good idea, team up with other people who know about that. Last, if time is not a hard pressure be patient. Look for example at people who apend years polishing ideas and creating software that is a craft [1]. [1] https://store.steampowered.com/app/1624540/Storyteller/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/1624540/Storyteller/

gadders 3y ago

"Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard."

robviren 3y ago

I am sad that I have but one up vote. I have made a career out of some of the behaviors described here. Asking dumb questions has saved me countless bad outcomes on projects. Being bold and just talking with the people who use the tools you build. So much of these soft skills are just ignored for being able to code a freaking linked list or some nonsense on a whiteboard.

vixen99 3y ago
Yes and of course they weren't dumb questions. As a young student beginning to attend research seminars I remember that it tended to be those at the top of the academic pecking order who asked the supposedly dumb questions most of us thought would likely make us look stupid.

jonplackett 3y ago

I'd love to share this article with a bunch of people - but I reckon they'd all take it as an insult!

StopHammoTime 3y ago

This is just good advice in general. The number one thing that has led to my career success (albeit at the cost of much stress) is following my Grandfather's adage: "Someone has to do it, and it might as well be me." I struggle day-to-day to convey to engineers that a grind is required, and sometimes work just needs to be done. People would rather take 60 hours writing a script, instead of just doing work that takes 10 hours (and I'm not even being facetious with that estimate).

tonyedgecombe 3y ago
You have to be careful though, otherwise you could end up being the guy who looks after all the printers.
- Sammi 3y ago
  Be careful what you're good at is good advise. But be good at something is also good advice :)

lkadjal 3y ago

> Be audacious. Most people who are talented or smart are scared of doing things. I’m not sure why that is, but it’s more often than not the case. Because they are book smart. As in raised in right conditions and sent to the right schools. Also not smart enough to actually realise they will die one day and contemplate on that. They are focused on resume and status building as if they are eternal. Common traits involves plugging a lot of keywords while talking, posting a lot on twitter/linkedin/instagram etc If they do realise their own mortality they won't be so scared and not afraid to do anything meaningful.

MontgomeryPi2 3y ago

The article made me think of General Kurt von Hammerstein-Equord's officer classification: "I distinguish four types. There are clever, hardworking, stupid, and lazy officers. Usually two characteristics are combined. Some are clever and hardworking; their place is the General Staff. The next ones are stupid and lazy; they make up 90 percent of every army and are suited to routine duties. Anyone who is both clever and lazy is qualified for the highest leadership duties, because he possesses the mental clarity and strength of nerve necessary for difficult decisions. One must beware of anyone who is both stupid and hardworking; he must not be entrusted with any responsibility because he will always only cause damage."

Jensson 3y ago
That jives very well with the first point: "Be audacious. Most people who are talented or smart are scared of doing things." In general smart people want to understand what they are doing before they do it. This means you can often beat them at a task by simply doing without understanding, which is why General Kurt told us to be wary about such people.
- nine_k 3y ago
  Doing without understanding usually misses some "obvious" detail, and that makes the whole thing a lot less useful, if not harmful.
  - mistermann 3y ago
    A concrete but flawed implementation can also be an excellent catalyst for brighter minds, gives them something newer to focus on, discuss, iterate on, etc.
- rgavuliak 3y ago
  Yeah, I've seen too many bs created by people that thought they were much smarter than in reality.
  - 3y ago

iLoveOncall 3y ago

Here's another blog post that got popular on HN a few years ago and explains how doing much of what this article advises (not all) will get you nowhere: https://noidea.dog/glue https://noidea.dog/glue I don't think either are fully right or wrong, but I thought it was interesting to see the difference of opinion.

nycodez 3y ago

[flagged]

bamboozled 3y ago

discipline and perseverance

jroseattle 3y ago

I'm not sure if this was intended to "flip the script" on the talented & smart, as this is sage advice for any entrepreneur. It wouldn't surprise me if the author was trying to give the "T&S" permission to do things without getting in the way of themselves. I recently completed a project on behalf of a privately-held company in the financial sector. Big, successful, and very corporate. The owner (a single individual) was in town and spoke to a few leaders (biz, tech, marketing) in my group. His message: get in the weeds, learn the business, understand every function, ask questions, get outside your comfort zone, be persistent, act with urgency, and finish things. (Those were literally my notes from that meeting.) He gave his team room to do the things necessary to let their talent & smartness be most effective.

throw7 3y ago

An entrance plaque at "Schoellkopf Power Station" reads: to know what to do... wisdom to know how to do it... skill to do the thing as it should be done is ... service ...

cschep 3y ago

Great article. I felt like I was reading a guide on how to properly interact with the perfection monster in my own brain. Perhaps believing you're not smart and don't have talent leads to better work anyway! Clever. Great read.

kleton 3y ago

Was curious about the author: > I'd always admired Adaobi Adibe from many of our interactions. Whenever our paths crossed, I found that she spoke with a frankness and transparency that was rare to find, and often reiterated the importance of authenticity even in the most challenging of spaces. Her curiosity led her to build Jargon, technology which translates online jargon and makes information more accessible to the masses. She's also a researcher exploring organ manufacturing, and is currently undertaking a fellowship with the Old Vic. Adaobi is a woman with a great mind, but equally a woman on a mission. > At the age of 25, she has end-stage kidney failure. It's a life threatening condition which has had a considerable impact on her day-to-day life. However, it has also considerably altered her pursuits too. In her mission to build great things, kidney failure was not enough to deter her from her work, and in fact was inspired to look into solutions for end-stage kidney failure, and the distrust in medical professionalism which runs rampant in Black communities. Meet Adaobi - a woman on a mission.

prmoustache 3y ago

What about people who seem to be able to do things on their own but when they ask for help they turn totally stupid? Like I have a guy in my company who seems to handle some stuff well, but obviously for things where he lacks knowledge would often seek help. And then if you have him in a videocall, telling him how you think you would do he just turn into a robot that just type what you ask him to do with no sign of understanding what he is doing, like he put himself in cruise control mode.

RecycledEle 3y ago

I disagree with everything the author says. You do not have to be successful in any time frame. Just put in tine learning. Make one small goal after another, and burn hours until you are pretty good. People who are "natural athletes" often just spent their childhood practicing every sport they knew about. "Natural engineers" aften spent their childhood playing with test equipment. They git good through many years of practice not through being loud or audacious.