24 ms·

Please don't make me use another QR code restaurant menu

214 points by laurex 3y ago

anonzzzies 3y ago
My two favourite places here went to qr including payment. It’s the best. There are horribly bad ways of doing it but I really like this way.
batch12 3y ago
I just tell the wait staff / restaurant no.
gmerc 3y ago
It’s awesome … consumers scan the QR and still pay service charge.
- mattl 3y ago
  You aren’t picking up your food from the kitchen and fetching your own drinks, so yes there’s an implied or explicit service charge.
  - ketchupdebugger 3y ago
    should that service charge be lowered? or stay the same? You are getting less service.
    - mattl 3y ago
      What less service are you getting? You’re ordering from the same person, you’re just choosing your food from a PDF/nightmare website vs a paper menu.
      - mulmen 3y ago
        I will absolutely tip less for a nightmare website. The less service part is I have to scan the QR code.
      - scythe 3y ago
        Some people in this thread describe ordering online from the table. Others are talking about menu links but you order from the waiter.
        mattl 3y ago
        I’ve yet to experience the self-ordering QR code thing, which sounds quite useful. In the UK, some chains had apps where you could order. In the US, at least here in New England a menu QR code is a link to a PDF or a nightmare website (recently saw one that was a canva.com presentation formatted for a desktop computer or a TV) — a paper menu is almost always better around here.
        gmerc 3y ago
        In Asia this is quickly becoming the norm.
    - almostnormal 3y ago
      The server provides data to the phone/tablet, that's service, too, and needs to be paid.
  - Scarblac 3y ago
    And people cook the food, people do the dishes, people clean the restaurant, do maintenance on the chairs... All costs that should simply be part of the quoted price.
- ponector 3y ago
  And don't forget tips! 25% minimum!
- frabbit 3y ago
  And we get to collect data on the customer! There's just no end to the wins!
mattl 3y ago
In theory a digital menu should be better for accessibility but I’ve found they’re either a link to a PDF (which offers some ability to zoom in) or they’re a hideous nightmare website with no easy way to increase font sizes due to them being more like a presentation rather than a simple menu.
- whartung 3y ago
  Yea, my experience as well. Cramming a 11x14 foldout menu onto a phone pdf is not a good UX. That said, I find the kiosk app at Panera Bread a much better experience than ordering from the menu simply because there’s a lot more information. Options, bread types, ingredients, etc. You can claw that out of the clerk, but it’s a bit arduous. So it can be done well. It just isn’t. And it’s don’t really blame the restaurants either. A comprehensive digital experience is really not their ballywick. Then there was a time I went to an Italian restaurant in Brooklyn. There, we had no menus. The server came up, “What do you want?” “Well, what do you have?” “We’re an Italian restaurant. What do you want?” And I told him, and I got it. I mean, indeed, it was an Italian restaurant.
Salgat 3y ago
I'll buck the trend and say that I love QR code menus. It lets us order at our own pace, even after our initial order, without waiting on the waiter. Additionally, my wife and I can both queue up what we want in the cart on each of our own phones and discuss before submitting the order. It's just way more convenient, the whole "wait on a stranger to take our order" thing isn't a necessary component of the restaurant experience for me, and if I need to ask questions, I've never had issues waving over a worker to help.
- chrisdalke 3y ago
  Full mobile ordering is great, but there’s lots of places that have the worst of both worlds: a QR code linking to a digital menu, but still take orders with the waiter
  - rahimnathwani 3y ago
    Yeah bonus points if the digital menu is a regular-sized PDF, meaning anyone over 20 has to pan and zoom.
  - dakial1 3y ago
    QR. code that takes you to a Google Drive PDF with a scan of the printed menu.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - davchana 3y ago
      To top that, that QR code is distorted before printed, like rectangle. Happened to me in central valley.
      - solardev 3y ago
        Was it still scannable? I thought they had perspective correction built in, given that any picture you take of one will always have some distortion? edit: 2022 discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36174607 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36174607
spirit557 3y ago
The only time I can midly bear a digital menu is if it's a single PDF file that I can pinch and zoom. Otherwise it just feels obnoxious to have to tap thru menus or only see my choices isolated in multiple pages based on a category or something. It feels awkward to sit down with people at a restaurant then we all are tapping away thru some stupid interface for a menu. If it's a single PDF file that one can pinch and zoom around thats the only time I dont get extremely annoyed by this whole thing.
- modeless 3y ago
  As long as the text in the PDF is real text that can be searched, rather than just a bunch of JPEGs in a PDF wrapper.
- vendiddy 3y ago
  Some of the PDFs I've seen weigh in at 50mb! I want a mobile friendly page that loads in a second.
- seattle_spring 3y ago
  PDFs suck for foreign countries since you can't as easily translate the content on demand like a website in a browser. Otherwise, totally agreed.
  - mattl 3y ago
    I’d imagine they’re also more frustrating because data while roaming is typically much slower.
    - tom_ 3y ago
      It can also be fantastically expensive. Roaming data charges for my phone outside the EU: £5/MByte.
      - mattl 3y ago
        The data to download a menu is more than the meal. Is free wifi common in Europe? I remember it being quite hard to find a hotspot. Same in the UK.. UK had those “the cloud” things in places.
floren 3y ago
I kinda make a point of asking the waiter for a physical menu anymore, and they usually give a very understanding smile and go grab one for me. I hope if enough people ask (in a non-shitty way) for paper menus that restaurant owners might get the picture. Or they'll just implement the standard business playbook, which is "do what we really want to do and claim it's what the customers demanded"... or the new twist post-2020, "do what we've been desperate to do for years and claim it's for health reasons"
tail_exchange 3y ago
I'm probably in the minority, but I don't see what's so appealing with physical menus. I never actually cared whether a restaurant has one or the other, I will just use whatever they have, but I would much rather use a QR Code menu on my phone (especially if it allows me to order without talking to a waiter) than using a greasy, bulky menu that everyone else touches. I get that there are some disadvantages, but some of the ones listed in the article seem to be grasping at straws. Important historical documents? Give me a break. I don't know if this is a generational thing or not, but my friends (from 20 to 35) don't care for physical menus either.
- Dalewyn 3y ago
  It's not so much that physical menus are good/better, it's that needing to open a digital menu on your phone when you're already in the restaurant and (presumably) paying to be served is the literal opposite of service. The really fancy restaurants even have the waiter verbally tell you their menu, or at least their special(s) of the day.
  - tail_exchange 3y ago
    I think that's completely subjective, because if I'm indifferent between the two mediums, then the service is not worse. I'd say it depends a lot on the restaurant. If I'm in a pricey restaurant, then give me both, because I want an experience tailored for me. If I'm in a Pub, please give me a digital menu, because god knows what is encrusted in those physical menus. Now, having to listen to a waiter recite a menu from memory is just plain bizarre. I've been to a lot of fancy restaurants and I've never seen this. The specialty of the day? Sure. But never the whole menu. Worse than having a written menu in a format you don't like would be having no written menu at all.
  - scythe 3y ago
    I never liked the version where the waiter explains the menu options because I always forget them by the time I need to order.
jrochkind1 3y ago
A pub I used to love is now order on the QR code menu, pay on the app it leads you to -- you see a server exactly once to drop off your food. I still tip 20% every time because that's how I roll, but it doesn't feel great, and mostly I just don't go there anymore. I'm on the computer and mostly by myself all day, if I'm out I actually want to not be on my phone and be interacting with humans? If I am out with a group, the last thing we want is to all by on our phones ordering (and being distracted by notifications etc)
neogodless 3y ago
Nice restaurants have (physically) big menus that are easy to scan and read. You can see sections, specials, and you can browse easily. Smart phones are typically less than 7" across. Best case scenario is they learn from McDonald's (which uses like a 35" screen...) with big categories to click and then a few items per category. But it'll still be tiny.
- seattle_spring 3y ago
  Usually nice restaurants have small menus with only a few carefully selected options based on the season. Which restaurants are you referring to that have "big menus"?
  - neogodless 3y ago
    I mean physically large menus. Not menus with a large quantity of selection.
  - lozenge 3y ago
    I know a wide range of nice restaurants. There's the seasonal French guff you mention, but there's also pizzas, places that have breakfast menus, curry houses...
    - brewdad 3y ago
      A curry house can have delicious food. I don't know that I've ever considered a curry house a nice restaurant.
    - seattle_spring 3y ago
      Hmm I am definitely not referring to French restaurants, at least not more than 2-3% of what I'm thinking of but ok.
jandrese 3y ago
I'm personally a bit torn on this. One of my local restaurants has the QR menu and it is a whole system. The waiter doesn't even come to the table, you just put your order in on your phone and they deliver it when it is ready. All in all, it's much more efficient and it means you're never waiting for your waiter to reappear if you want to order another drink or something. You also pay the bill through your phone, which avoids the need to hand your credit card to the waiter. It probably saves at least 5-10 minutes per table, meaning possibly one more turnover during each dinner period. You do lose a bit in the personal interaction. There's also no chance to ask the waiter questions about the menu or ask for recommendations.
- COGlory 3y ago
  Soon there will be a GPT that will handle questions and recommendations. And probably a robot that will bring you your food.
- shostack 3y ago
  A local restaurant did this. However in making you pay for your order up front they also ask for the tip then. And they play the usual games to try and get you to pay more than the typical 20%. The server drops your food off and you never see them again. It's a horrible experience.
  - southernplaces7 3y ago
    20% ? what the fuck justifies that as an automatic tip, except exceptionally good service. Absurd nonsense. All the more so if you barely interacted with the supposed waiter during your ordering process.
neverrroot 3y ago
I prefer a real menu, but there are people that feel pressure when holding one, or interacting with the personnel, but I’m not convinced they do the right thing for themselves trying to keep it digital to avoid interaction in the real world with real people. There are of course a few advantages to having a menu available immediately, including for ordering something afterwards, but I got into the habit of always asking for a menu to be left at the table. Not only for this reason. In general I also enjoy interacting with the personnel when ordering, having a real menu definitely helps with that.
bdcrazy 3y ago
I can imagine if it hasn't happened yet, it will happen soon enough where QR code menus will be tailored to the person. Change the order of items and possibly even costs to try and drive the individual diner to choose the options that are better for the restaurant. Digital menus already offer many of these perks for the restaurant, and I suspect forcing around the margins can definitely make a difference at the expense of the customer.
- wait_a_minute 3y ago
  Yeah, this is why I don’t want to use QR codes. Prices need to be set in writing and be the same for everyone, although I’m okay with things like discounts for seniors, students, active service members, etc.
- asvitkine 3y ago
  I don't see that happening except at very big businesses like chains. Most locally owned restaurants have trouble maintaining a working website let alone something so complicated.
  - paleotrope 3y ago
    That's where a lean and hungry third party startup comes in and offers to take a little piece of that action in exchange for handling all the backend work.
- morkalork 3y ago
  Tack on some image recognition to gauge customers "value" as they walk in and track where they sit. See a party sporting luxury bags and watches and charge them a little bit extra eh? Add in some facial recognition too to keep prices consistent between visits and voilà.
- kragen 3y ago
  right, fingerprint the user's browser, or leak the phone mac address, so you can offer low promotional prices to new diners for their first month
- 3y ago
dbg31415 3y ago
> I’m not alone in my dislike of QR codes. OK, but there are so many great uses for them! Wifi passwords... just let people scan a photo to join the network. Duh! Sharing your contact details... why are we messing with Bluetooth when both Apple and Android support QR codes?! Next time you're at a convention, just set your contact card (Vcard QR Code) as your phone home screen image... so much easier to share details vs. watching people try and bump between devices not knowing if it'll work. "Did you get it, I don't know if I'm bumping in the right place... did it send? Do you have airdrop on?" Ha. It's silly. No clue why Apple and Android don't just have a QR share option. =P Sending SMS... I love the "vote for X with this code, vote for Y with this code" options. Just an easy way to network people, again, regardless of what device they are on. QR codes are great! Maye not if you want to go to Italy and feel a paper menu, maybe not so much... but there's still plenty of great uses for QR codes. https://www.qr-code-generator.com/ https://www.qr-code-generator.com/
sschueller 3y ago
I refuse to go to any restaurant in Switzerland that has qr only menu and does not accept cash. Not accepting cash is against the law[1] but sadly there is no penalty defined. The argument is always it costs to much to deal with cash. You know what also costs money? Cleaning the kitchen, I wonder what other laws these companies think are ok to ignore. [1] https://www.fedlex.admin.ch/eli/cc/2000/186/en#art_3 https://www.fedlex.admin.ch/eli/cc/2000/186/en#art_3
- randomdata 3y ago
  Interesting law. That means that if you want to take a holiday from work you can just pay your employer the equivalent cash value of your labour instead of showing up and there is nothing your employer can say about it since they are always required to accept money as payment. In fact, you can evade all contractual obligation by offering money in place of what was expected to be paid. I can see why it isn't generally honoured.
  - sschueller 3y ago
    I don't have a problem with certain exceptions for online only retail or other specific cases. For example if you are a very small business. The law needs an update for sure.
    - randomdata 3y ago
      Wouldn't it be much be easier to list the small handful of cases where you want it to apply? Think I am going to pay you in my house when you pay me money for said house? Ha! By this law, I can simply give you your money back. You are obligated to accept it since you must always accept money as payment, and now the house you lived in prior is gone. Seems incredibly problematic for the vast majority of transactions. Which is no doubt why nobody actually follows it.
      - sschueller 3y ago
        A million Swiss francs in bill form isn't that much. We have CHF 1,000 denominated bills and the law states the maximum in coins is CHF 100 that you have to accept.
graton 3y ago
Another thing with digital menus is it will allow restaurants to do dynamic pricing. A bit harder with paper menus.
- taftster 3y ago
  Sadly, you are correct. It used to be that prices didn't change that frequently and a printed menu would not be too much overhead. Now, prices are changing so rapidly, it's a non-trivial cost associated with printing new menus every time the price changes. I think digital menus are accommodating of the restaurant owner, in this regard. But they sure suck for customers, or at least, for this customer.
- randycupertino 3y ago
  And remove things if they're sold out, easily add specials etc.
dougbarrett 3y ago
I've seen this argument come up frequently and I find this is just a weird hill to die on. I can see where the author is coming from as far as taking you out of the experience, but QR codes and NFC absolutely have a place in the restaurant ordering experience and I'm here for it.
seattle_spring 3y ago
Interesting that the person in OP was in Italy when they realized they hated QR menus. I'm in a South American city where the QR menus are pervasive, and I love it because it's so, so easy to immediately translate it to English. I get that you can take a photo of a physical menu and do the same thing with Lens, but the QR menu removes a few pieces of friction and has generally been a positive feature.
naitgacem 3y ago
Honestly, if I'm going to a restaurant especially with other people, I prefer to leave my phone behind. I try to never bring a "smart" device. This QR code thing is just another mine in the field of trying to live in society today without a smartphone. Other notable mines being online banking, apps to access government issues documents. A lot of this nowadays require an app. If i want to find out my health insurance status? it's an app, no website. Heck even checking my grades at uni requires i install some sketchy app! it used to be posted at the department entrance...
alt227 3y ago
My family and I go to a cafe for breakfast most saturday mornings. The one place we usually go to has no phone signal at all anywhere in the ~150 seat restuarant. Its part of the reason I like going there. We turned up last weekend to see they had put new QR code menus on all the tables. I had no intention of using them so I ordered from the counter as I usually do, knowing they wouldnt even work because of the lack of phone signal. I spent over an hour that day silently chuckling as I watched pretty much every single customer pick up the QR code menu and try to use it. I saw a few get really annoyed and end up leaving. Im not sure how much damage the place did to their clientel in a single day, but I went back yesterday and they had all been removed. You couldnt make it up!
- rolph 3y ago
  sounds like a good case for preserving opt-outs anytime you try something new.
- workingdog 3y ago
  Please tell them. They probably got a huckster in there who sold them the QR code madness by promising them increased sales.
  - AussieWog93 3y ago
    Slight tangent: I've noticed that robot waiters seem to never actually be doing their jobs, and the presence of one in the store is the sign of the restaurant being poorly managed. The idea that there could be hucksters selling these door to door to bad managers explains so so much.
- addandsubtract 3y ago
  Wait until someone encodes an entire menu in the QR code.
  - WelcomeShorty 3y ago
    With the (ATM) highest version of QR codes and the minimal error correction, you're limited to 4,296 bytes(0). And V40 is not something I've seen(1) in the wild :) 0: https://www.qrcode.com/en/about/version.html https://www.qrcode.com/en/about/version.html 1: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Qr-code-ver-40.svg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Qr-code-ver-40.svg
digitalsushi 3y ago
I think they are great. Last night we went to a little Thai restaurant in New Hampshire and we self-seated, sat down, realized there was a QR code for menus and to register that the table was occupied; a half hour later two bowls of pad thai were delievered to our table for 70 dollars plus 20% tip. For 84 bucks we had a small meal and almost no human interaction: the perfect night for half of us, and the worst experience possible for the other. Whether I'm being completely sarcastic or not is not detectable because this thing is damned divisive.
- b112 3y ago
  I hope it's sarcastic at 84 dollars for two bowls!!
- geodel 3y ago
  Wow, two awesome bowls of Pad Thai under 100 dollars with no human interaction. Sign me up!
mherdeg 3y ago
It's fascinating to me that we went from "embedding important information in QR codes is silly because they look ridiculous and no one will ever use them" ( https://picturesofpeoplescanningqrcodes.tumblr.com/ https://picturesofpeoplescanningqrcodes.tumblr.com/ ) all the way to "sweet, I can read the whole menu online and order and pay when I'm ready, this is great" in like 3 months.
- thfuran 3y ago
  There are surely groups of people holding those opinions, but I don't many move from one to the other in any given three month period.
- smt88 3y ago
  That only happened because of Covid, which was, to put it mildly, a driver of major cultural shifts.
arthurgibson 3y ago
This reads like a farewell and it probably is the next generation of dining. In North America the workforce isn’t there to staff restaurants and some of these digital menus allow you to order without staff needing to support it. We should start to encourage some online menu standards though to welcome it in.
poulsbohemian 3y ago
Supposedly the new trend is no menus or service at all - instead, you order at the counter even at more upscale places…
kshahkshah 3y ago
I don’t like them. But I’m not sure how many people in this thread have friends in hospitality who are owners. They LOVE them. Labor costs are killing restaurants, not having wait staff makes a huge difference to them
ok123456 3y ago
If the restaurant has so many things on the menu where it's a cost savings to do this, there is no cooking real happening there. Everything is frozen and reheated . Don't waste your time and money there.
- smt88 3y ago
  This is always a cost-saver. Paper menus are never free, and they get filthy or damaged easily. You should see a QR code as indicating the opposite, actually: that the menu is refreshed often enough that paper is impractical.
  - ok123456 3y ago
    Lamination solves the problem of them getting dirty and damaged. The QR code thing happens more often than not at chain restaurants, which are just reheating frozen slop, rather than bistros that are changing their menu daily.
    - smt88 3y ago
      Laminating menus is even more expensive and makes the problem worse. > The QR code thing happens more often than not at chain restaurants, which are just reheating frozen slop, rather than bistros that are changing their menu daily. This is the opposite of my experience. I can't think of a chain that uses them. Chains have enough money to print laminated menus, and their menus don't change.
- rolph 3y ago
  there was a time when senior kitchen staff, actually went shopping, for quality ingredients.
frankus 3y ago
Now that there’s no longer a giant pool of unemployed workers in North America who could otherwise be employed to courier food orders from a restaurant’s table to its kitchen, there’s a real tradeoff between a human doing a job that only a human can do and a human doing a job that a robot (or a website) could easily do with current tech.
kindatrue 3y ago
Counterpoint: I don't love getting sticky paper menus full of stains... or for the ones that are in folios, full of crumbs.
- will5421 3y ago
  If the menus are dirty, imagine what the kitchen’s like. Now, with QR codes, you can’t tell.
xcskier56 3y ago
One weird thing I’ve noticed is that many of these pdf menu in the us are hosted on an s3 bucket in the EU. I’ve tried ti see a pattern in the applications but haven’t noticed anything
bitwize 3y ago
I've seen this maybe once or twice. Maybe it's just a matter of which restaurants we choose to patronize, but virtually all of them offer paper or laminate menus for us to use. The only time we are forced to use an electronic menu is when we order via DoorDash.
lasean 3y ago
Side Topic (Menus With Photos): There seems perception in the US that menus with pictures of the food are less sophisticated or cater to a less discerning clientele. In Asia, photos of the food in the menu is more of the norm than the exception (even for more upscale places). I discover more items I like when the photos are present. I would take QR codes with foods photos over a physical menu without (even for a $$$$ restaurant.
- prmoustache 3y ago
  Unless the photos are of a very good quality and the print hasn't been washed out over the year, food pictures in menus usually give me disgust.
  - lasean 3y ago
    Agree. That's point. I'd rather scan a QR code that links to great photos than have a printed menu with no photos. They informally call them food picture books in restaurants I've eaten at in China, Indonesia, Japan, and Singapore. Example: https://www.kawanointernational.com/assets/file/KADO%2008%202023%20.pdf https://www.kawanointernational.com/assets/file/KADO%2008%20...
sublinear 3y ago
Slightly off topic, but since we're complaining about restaurant menus I think most of them are a complete mess in the first place. They either try to cram too much on one page, or require too many pages. It's not even necessarily that there are too many items, but that the design is shitty. Extra turd points if the page wastes the margins with noisy decoration or stock photos of drunk people smiling wielding margaritas or whatever and half of it is redundant ads for their specials. Don't get me started about glossy paper that's impossible to read under the glare of the accent lighting festooning the tables.
LAC-Tech 3y ago
I remember a lot of the breakfast places in Taiwan they had this little notepad on the front counter. It had the entire menu on it, printed on plain paper about a5 size. You'd take a piece of paper, and tick the boxes next to the item you wanted to order, then take it back up to the front. Solves all the problems this QR code thing does, while being cheaper, more convenient, and reliable.
marcuskaz 3y ago
What I hate about QR code ordering is that it puts me in charge of getting everything right. It takes way too much time, so when I go out with my family I have to hunt around for each item, make sure I put it in exactly how they want it, and now any mistake even if the kitchen goofed is now my mistake. "Dad, you ordered it wrong! There's ketchup on my burger" Plus half the time I forget to even enter my own order trying to get everyone else's and double checking it's all correct. So my meal comes out late. The paying and getting up and leaving without having to wait for the waiter to bring the check is nice, but the ordering part is not worth the hassle.
- crazygringo 3y ago
  > and now any mistake even if the kitchen goofed is now my mistake. Funny, in my experience it's precisely the opposite. It means I never have to feel awkward because there's no longer any uncertainty over whether I said the wrong thing or the server wrote it down wrong. If the food or drinks come out wrong, there's irrefutable proof I ordered correctly, and it's the kitchen's job to fix it. (And in my experience in restaurants, 95% of the time something has come out wrong, it's been the server's fault, not the kitchen's. So with QR ordering the problem almost goes away completely.)
  - porphyra 3y ago
    Yes exactly, it's so annoying to have to make sure if the server actually heard what I said. And often near the end of a meal we would be waiting for a dish that never came and be unsure whether the kitchen is just taking a long time, whether we forgot to order it, whether the server forgot it, etc. If there had been a digital order receipt then there would never be any question.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- mft_ 3y ago
  (I wrote an earlier reply to you, then deleted it, but keep on thinking about your post, so have come back to it. Please feel free to ignore me completely, but be sure that this brief comment is written with the very best of intentions.) I (obviously) have no particular insight into your situation, but I can't help thinking that in the situation you describe, QR code ordering isn't the root cause of your stress, but is maybe triggering stress related to other issues within your group dynamic? Consider a generic family group: in general, on most occasions, should they be able to work out how to order food together without too much stress being generated? I don't think that's an unreasonable expectation. And if you're not able to do this, maybe it's time to both introspect and discuss (with your partner, and/or children?) why - and consider new approaches to the situation and the problem.
lemoncookiechip 3y ago
Much prefer the touchpad approach, where they have one near each table, you pick what you want and it goes directly to the kitchen and runs up a tab. At the end you pay like normal and that's it. It's a digital menu that doesn't require my device in any way. These are rare from what I've experienced though.
nsxwolf 3y ago
When you're going out as a family of 6, passing around a single iPhone is a nightmare. Making customers actually order from the phone is nightmare^3.
- maximus-decimus 3y ago
  I'm honestly curious what age kids start having a phone with a data plan these days. It's wild that the IPhone barely existed when I finish high school 15 years ago and that now I'm asking myself if 5 years olds all have ones.
  - nsxwolf 3y ago
    Most of the kids in my 12 year old’s class have their own phone. For now, we have one “kids phone” that we let them pass around in case one is getting dropped off at sports, or a friend’s house or something.
xyst 3y ago
I don’t see an issue with QR code menus. It’s the poor UX I have an issue with. Often times it’s just a pdf or image that results in unnecessary pinching/zooming. I’ve used great “qr code” menus but the plethora of shit implementations make it unattractive as a whole.
- dredmorbius 3y ago
  Contrast: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39070466 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39070466>
dang 3y ago
Related. Others? People Hate QR-Code Menus. Now Restaurants Are Ditching Them - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36094653 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36094653 - May 2023 (16 comments) The QR-code menu is being shown the door - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36065666 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36065666 - May 2023 (368 comments) Off the menu: why restaurants are ditching QR codes - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36053661 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36053661 - May 2023 (1 comment) The Restaurant Industry’s Worst Idea: QR Code Menus - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33387760 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33387760 - Oct 2022 (636 comments) QR code menus are the death of civilization - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31758817 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31758817 - June 2022 (11 comments) Ads on QR code menu of the restaurant - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30391754 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30391754 - Feb 2022 (8 comments) Show HN: An app to create QR Menus - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29305129 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29305129 - Nov 2021 (29 comments) QR codes have replaced restaurant menus. Industry experts say it isn’t a fad - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28259474 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28259474 - Aug 2021 (23 comments) Ask HN: What's been the best usage for QR code apart from restaurants menus? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27815545 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27815545 - July 2021 (30 comments) Bring back menus, QR codes are terrible - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27671392 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27671392 - June 2021 (710 comments) Show HN: I built a simple QR menu creator for restaurants to avoid Coronavirus - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24847657 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24847657 - Oct 2020 (4 comments) QR Menu Creator - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24847588 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24847588 - Oct 2020 (2 comments)
gwbas1c 3y ago
I've encountered so many QR code menus that don't work that I don't even bother anymore. At this point I act mildly insulted when I'm told that there's no paper menu. (I say something like, "Really, there's no more paper menu? I don't do QR codes.") Go ahead and call me stubborn: I have a 0-tolerance policy for broken tech, and that bridge is already burnt.
oliwarner 3y ago
But also, letting me pay and leave without having to catch the eye of an overworked, underpaid waiter, mime paying and wait for the one card-reader to become available is golden. Why not both? Online ordering via table-unique QR if you want it, otherwise wait for service. They're all going through the same system so you can mix and match.
r0s 3y ago
QR codes seems to be living on borrowed time, saved from obscurity by the pandemic. Why can't my phone just read a printed URL by now? There's no reason the same information can't be human readable as well as easy for my phone to scan. I suppose it would require some kind of design paradigm to really denote text that could also be scanned, maybe a specific font style. Anyway it seem likely to me QR codes are eventually replaced by simple text.
- mixmastamyk 3y ago
  QR is more compact and higher accuracy.
  - r0s 3y ago
    And not human readable, is my point. The value tradeoff in accuracy and compactness is the question. Will that be enough to sustain QR codes? I don't think so. Also most QR codes seem to include a text url nearby the code anyway, so there goes the "compactness" argument. In that case it's redundant information as well.
    - mixmastamyk 3y ago
      The compactness refers to the length of the url. Most mobile oriented stuff prefers portrait orientation. Not to mention colors, fonts etc. QR avoids all these issues. Maybe something better will come along but will have similarities.
      - r0s 3y ago
        QR has the same contrast requirement for colors to be read. I'm not sure about this compactness idea, especially since the text url is usually right there with the QR code, in the same space.
eh_why_not 3y ago
Perhaps the best setup is for restaurants to implement both systems; physical menu available as well as QR. Question for people who prefer QR: how do you know you're not getting priced higher than other customers?
- prmoustache 3y ago
  You are not priced differently if you order from a menu obtained by a QR code. It seems people are mixing up qrcode linked menus with online ordering. These are 2 different things.
  - brewdad 3y ago
    Well you could be getting priced differently. Restaurants could place different QR codes at "desirable" tables compared to the average or worst tables in the house. Would you know? I'm not aware of any place doing this but it's a simple example that wouldn't even require any type of dynamic pricing setup just a second or third version of the menu with a unique link.
NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
What I've been doing for fast-food is to order ahead of time, usually while I'm en route on the bus. Google Maps has a unified interface that links out to the various delivery services, and the restaurant's own website if it's available. Then I order a meal for pickup, and it's all specified and paid in whatever app I used. Then I arrive at the restaurant and my meal is all bagged up to go, then I tell the counter girl that this meal is "for here" and may I please have a knife? "No, we don't have knives anymore." How about a tray? "No, due to the COVID-19 pandemic." So far they have tolerated my presence as I sit at a table and eat the meal on top of the paper bag.
OfficeChad 3y ago
[dead]
o0ower0o 3y ago
I get the nostalgic nature of the article, but it feels unfair as it seems to compare the "best physical menu experience" to the "worst digital" one. At its best, a menu can be a nice leather "book". At its worst, it is a one page plastic menu that has been touched by hundreds of people before you and never cleaned, it is also probably ruined or broken on the corners and in the middle, and has also a lot hand-made corrections to ingredients and prices that makes reading it way more frustrating. At the same time, a digital menu can be easy to navigate (with sections based on first courses, second courses, appetizers, etc.), it can show you the pictures of the food you're going to order and, sometimes, allows you to order without waiting for someone. Even at their worse, I still prefer the digital version as it is more hygienic and I don't have to wait 15 minutes for a waiter if they forget to bring one to the table (and then we also have to share that between 6 people).
- Beldin 3y ago
  The article is about menus, not ordering. Physical menus can include photos and be easy to navigate. Most physical menus have separate sections for appetizer, side dishes, main course, etc. It's possible to incorporate ordering online into a paper menu (QR code/codes) for folks who don't want to wave at a waiter. In addition, a physical menu does not require you to use data or log on to the restaurant's wifi, is guaranteed not to track your browsing through the menu, can take up far more physical space than available on a phone screen, and won't start the dinner by everyone looking at their phones (and someone forced to help out the technically-challenged party member). Ordering without waiting is nice. Navigating a digital menu is too often a pain. Want to add a drink? That's on another tab, please wait while we load&render, no it's further down, oh you wanted non-alcoholic? Want to change your main? Okay, let's first remove it (load basket), go back to ordering, go back to main dishes... Oh didn't you want that appetizer? Load again and scroll to see if your memory triggers... etc etc etc. sigh.
efields 3y ago
I’d just like restaurants, cafes, etc to have an easier time operating here in the states. There is so much overhead to just serve people food, the most foundational service to offer a person. Do I have specific examples? No, but industry friends, anecdotal stories, etc…
hscontinuity 3y ago
I have extensive restaurant experience on all levels and while philosophically the importance of that experience would subjectively suggest a bias in my statements, I assure you I offer only my philosophical approach to this particular dilemma in the industry. QR codes aren't novel in their approach to information; they are rather applicably similar barcodes. I think generally speaking most would agree. This is the disconnect for most of humans. Generally speaking, when instituting out-of-the-norm operating standards in a generally selective common environment, most tradition is bonded with rather than against. Such as a QR code as an example in replacing physical menus with physically-required experiences. Such as; walking in to physical place, sitting down or standing somewhere, picking up or looking at a written menu, speaking to someone (perhaps soon enough to be, some thing), ordering something to eat, eating said items, paying for said items, maybe a visit to the loo or not, and leaving the physical establishment. When you insert a new method that (generally speaking) detracts from societal norms, it isn't a question of whether it works or doesn't work it's purely a matter of fucntion for the experience. Example: If there were a true 'ghost kitchen' which also had a (let's just say hypothetically) street-facing counter window due to (again, hypothetically) extremely small real estate space for the transactional process of obtaining the food, like a 2x2' window where you pickup the food - and the entirety of the transactional process from the financial arm of this experience, were to functionally as such: scan QR code above window, place order, pay/send order, wait nearby window, pickup food as ready. That'd make sense. But not so much when you or you and a group or more are interested in sitting down inside a physical space, expecting a physical experience. The two are not equal and should be used as the experience is required, in my very humble, 25+ years of experience in this very industry, opinion.
AussieWog93 3y ago
Really enjoy the irony that an article complaining about how technology ruined dining shoves a full-page popup in your face while you're halfway through the article.
bhpm 3y ago
I'm not sure I've ever seen anyone forced to use a QR code restaurant menu. As other comments have said, the wait staff is usually more than happy to grab a physical menu for you. For me, though, I use it as an opportunity to ask the wait staff what they recommend.
phreack 3y ago
A different point of view from a particular experience. In a country with rampant accelerating inflation, QR codes brought on by pandemic protocols were an unexpected saviour to the problem of having to mark up prices every week or month. The experience itself sucks in most places as you might have seen due to terrible tech stacks to host the menu, but the benefit of not having to print or markup so many menus have made QR a must. Funnily, I have an unfounded hunch that making price hikes so easy have in fact helped speed up inflation by a small bit.
Pelayu 3y ago
My main complaint about QR codes used like this is that at most restaurants I have been to will link to a pdf file that you then have to pinch-zoom all around the document to read it on your small phone screen - a bad UX.
ta_9390 3y ago
I have left many coffee shops just after enter without ordering because they only have QR menu and no WiFi. It feels insulting that I need to spend my limited Data package just to help you earn money. Even when the waiter offer to show me the menu on his phone, it felt overcomplicated process and I cannot imagine a business delibrately making it that difficult to order without expecting profits to decrease.
apexalpha 3y ago
I think QR code menu's can be a great. You can show your menu in every language imaginable. You can let guests filter for allergies or dietary restrictions. You can easily update your menu's if something runs out or changes. There are many benefits. But please, people. Have a normal menu, too. You are not McDonalds, and if you want to be I expect McDonalds pricing too.
advael 3y ago
It really seems like a lot of little complaints people have about little technological choices (like QR code menus) are increasingly complaints about the larger technological context they exist in (like the mobile ecosystem, controlled by the apple-google duopoly to fragment our attention, harvest tons of personal data, and lock us in to the platform) I used to think this was an old person thing, but I see a lot of younger people who seem to resent their phones lately too. I got into tech because it was and still is fascinating and full of potential, but it's hard to deny that tech companies have become the poster child for this monopoly-sludge economy that is making so many people persistently miserable. That's how I read this article: A person who views even a pretty minor aspect of an experience (The florid prose and descriptions the author likes in menus could easily be on a QR-accessed menu too) as tainted by the presence of tech. It's a weird little tic of a complaint without that context, but in our current cultural moment it's not that strange, and says a lot about said moment
- EasyMark 3y ago
  Yeah I convinced my nephew to buy a 96 F150 extended cab that was basically rebuilt from the ground up and while it doesn't have all the modern amenities, he's the one everyone wants to hop in the car and go somewhere. they think it's cool and see that it's basically a great experience, if a lot more minimalistic than a Tesla. It's still got AC/heat/great stereo system(thanks to me!)/power steering/foot room. I think younger people can appreciate that tech doesn't necessarily bring a lot of added utility.
curtisblaine 3y ago
I like the modern trend of ordering through a website and having your food served at the table without needing to interact with anyone. The amount of forced interaction in normal life is already unbearable. Anything that removes it is welcome.
kanbara 3y ago
when people feel the need to write "impassioned polemic"s about the use of technology in reducing paper waste and moving the world into the modern era, i have to think of principal skinner from the simpsons. i love and appreciate the world greatly, and physical objects too, but i've never once felt a thrill from touching a paper menu which outweighed the convenience of using a QR code and mobile system to order food. the joy of dining out comes from social interaction not holding a menu
wkat4242 3y ago
Here in Barcelona it's mainly Asian restaurants that still do this. Indeed extremely annoying. It also kinda breaks the etiquette "when in a restaurant you're not messing with your phone" because all the phones end up on the table and stay there.
sokitome 3y ago
I totally agree with the premise of Anne's article. Using a QR code for a menu or to place an order is so sterile and just ruins part of the reason for going to a restaurant in the first place, which is some sort of social interaction. Using a QR code to pay the bill is even more obnoxious as now a third party is being interjected into the payment/data tracking wheel of user surveillance. Technology is a great thing, but it can certainly be used in ways that are just plain degrading to a considerate life as a human being.
rodrigo5244 3y ago
The same thing could be said about online posts. Please don't make me use another online post, write an article in a magazine for me to read.
sandmn 3y ago
I don't mind QR code menus too much but often they are paired with ordering/payment system and these are too unreliable. Sometimes it can take my order, sometimes it just can't or I have to ask a friend with a different phone. Also, typing you card number on a phone is irritating, not to mention that I know nothing about that website and how secure it is.
GnarfGnarf 3y ago
I hate the bad design of the QR menus. You come in looking for a burger, and they make you wade through page after page of beer and wine.
antisol 3y ago
What do you mean "make"? 1. Stand up, say to cashier "I'm going somewhere that has an actual menu" 2. Go to another restaurant that has an actual menu 3. Order Food 4. Eat Food
southernplaces7 3y ago
Just don't use the QR. Flatly refuse. you're the customer and it's not an unreasonable line to draw. If they don't like it enough to not adapt, one less customer.
- hEzo 3y ago
  So without a QR, there's also one less customer who needs a QR to order.
gloosx 3y ago
oh i hate these too, and especially the places which completely remove the paper menus and leave only the digital version available, setting a requirement for customer to have a charged smartphone with internet connection with you. I don't even always carry my phone with me when i'm dining out, and even when i do, it can be out of battery or data plan, so it is always some asking for the freaking charger and wifi password, waiting until it have enough juice to turn on, going through public router captive menus etc before i can see the menu, absolutely outrageous feature of the new world
fennecbutt 3y ago
As a millennial I actually prefer QR/order to table menus apart from fancier restaurants (places like Gordon Ramsay's). This guy talks about appreciating the weight and realness of a physical menu, but the proceeds to write an article about it that I'm reading online and not in a paper newspaper or magazine.

214 points by laurex 3y ago

My two favourite places here went to qr including payment. It’s the best. There are horribly bad ways of doing it but I really like this way.

batch12 3y ago

I just tell the wait staff / restaurant no.

gmerc 3y ago

It’s awesome … consumers scan the QR and still pay service charge.

mattl 3y ago
You aren’t picking up your food from the kitchen and fetching your own drinks, so yes there’s an implied or explicit service charge.
- ketchupdebugger 3y ago
  should that service charge be lowered? or stay the same? You are getting less service.
  - mattl 3y ago
    What less service are you getting? You’re ordering from the same person, you’re just choosing your food from a PDF/nightmare website vs a paper menu.
    - mulmen 3y ago
      I will absolutely tip less for a nightmare website. The less service part is I have to scan the QR code.
    - scythe 3y ago
      Some people in this thread describe ordering online from the table. Others are talking about menu links but you order from the waiter.
      - mattl 3y ago
        I’ve yet to experience the self-ordering QR code thing, which sounds quite useful. In the UK, some chains had apps where you could order. In the US, at least here in New England a menu QR code is a link to a PDF or a nightmare website (recently saw one that was a canva.com presentation formatted for a desktop computer or a TV) — a paper menu is almost always better around here.
        gmerc 3y ago
        In Asia this is quickly becoming the norm.
  - almostnormal 3y ago
    The server provides data to the phone/tablet, that's service, too, and needs to be paid.
- Scarblac 3y ago
  And people cook the food, people do the dishes, people clean the restaurant, do maintenance on the chairs... All costs that should simply be part of the quoted price.
ponector 3y ago
And don't forget tips! 25% minimum!
frabbit 3y ago
And we get to collect data on the customer! There's just no end to the wins!

mattl 3y ago

In theory a digital menu should be better for accessibility but I’ve found they’re either a link to a PDF (which offers some ability to zoom in) or they’re a hideous nightmare website with no easy way to increase font sizes due to them being more like a presentation rather than a simple menu.

whartung 3y ago
Yea, my experience as well. Cramming a 11x14 foldout menu onto a phone pdf is not a good UX. That said, I find the kiosk app at Panera Bread a much better experience than ordering from the menu simply because there’s a lot more information. Options, bread types, ingredients, etc. You can claw that out of the clerk, but it’s a bit arduous. So it can be done well. It just isn’t. And it’s don’t really blame the restaurants either. A comprehensive digital experience is really not their ballywick. Then there was a time I went to an Italian restaurant in Brooklyn. There, we had no menus. The server came up, “What do you want?” “Well, what do you have?” “We’re an Italian restaurant. What do you want?” And I told him, and I got it. I mean, indeed, it was an Italian restaurant.

Salgat 3y ago

I'll buck the trend and say that I love QR code menus. It lets us order at our own pace, even after our initial order, without waiting on the waiter. Additionally, my wife and I can both queue up what we want in the cart on each of our own phones and discuss before submitting the order. It's just way more convenient, the whole "wait on a stranger to take our order" thing isn't a necessary component of the restaurant experience for me, and if I need to ask questions, I've never had issues waving over a worker to help.

chrisdalke 3y ago
Full mobile ordering is great, but there’s lots of places that have the worst of both worlds: a QR code linking to a digital menu, but still take orders with the waiter
- rahimnathwani 3y ago
  Yeah bonus points if the digital menu is a regular-sized PDF, meaning anyone over 20 has to pan and zoom.
- dakial1 3y ago
  QR. code that takes you to a Google Drive PDF with a scan of the printed menu.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - davchana 3y ago
    To top that, that QR code is distorted before printed, like rectangle. Happened to me in central valley.
    - solardev 3y ago
      Was it still scannable? I thought they had perspective correction built in, given that any picture you take of one will always have some distortion? edit: 2022 discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36174607 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36174607

spirit557 3y ago

The only time I can midly bear a digital menu is if it's a single PDF file that I can pinch and zoom. Otherwise it just feels obnoxious to have to tap thru menus or only see my choices isolated in multiple pages based on a category or something. It feels awkward to sit down with people at a restaurant then we all are tapping away thru some stupid interface for a menu. If it's a single PDF file that one can pinch and zoom around thats the only time I dont get extremely annoyed by this whole thing.

modeless 3y ago
As long as the text in the PDF is real text that can be searched, rather than just a bunch of JPEGs in a PDF wrapper.
vendiddy 3y ago
Some of the PDFs I've seen weigh in at 50mb! I want a mobile friendly page that loads in a second.
seattle_spring 3y ago
PDFs suck for foreign countries since you can't as easily translate the content on demand like a website in a browser. Otherwise, totally agreed.
- mattl 3y ago
  I’d imagine they’re also more frustrating because data while roaming is typically much slower.
  - tom_ 3y ago
    It can also be fantastically expensive. Roaming data charges for my phone outside the EU: £5/MByte.
    - mattl 3y ago
      The data to download a menu is more than the meal. Is free wifi common in Europe? I remember it being quite hard to find a hotspot. Same in the UK.. UK had those “the cloud” things in places.

floren 3y ago

I kinda make a point of asking the waiter for a physical menu anymore, and they usually give a very understanding smile and go grab one for me. I hope if enough people ask (in a non-shitty way) for paper menus that restaurant owners might get the picture. Or they'll just implement the standard business playbook, which is "do what we really want to do and claim it's what the customers demanded"... or the new twist post-2020, "do what we've been desperate to do for years and claim it's for health reasons"

tail_exchange 3y ago

I'm probably in the minority, but I don't see what's so appealing with physical menus. I never actually cared whether a restaurant has one or the other, I will just use whatever they have, but I would much rather use a QR Code menu on my phone (especially if it allows me to order without talking to a waiter) than using a greasy, bulky menu that everyone else touches. I get that there are some disadvantages, but some of the ones listed in the article seem to be grasping at straws. Important historical documents? Give me a break. I don't know if this is a generational thing or not, but my friends (from 20 to 35) don't care for physical menus either.

Dalewyn 3y ago
It's not so much that physical menus are good/better, it's that needing to open a digital menu on your phone when you're already in the restaurant and (presumably) paying to be served is the literal opposite of service. The really fancy restaurants even have the waiter verbally tell you their menu, or at least their special(s) of the day.
- tail_exchange 3y ago
  I think that's completely subjective, because if I'm indifferent between the two mediums, then the service is not worse. I'd say it depends a lot on the restaurant. If I'm in a pricey restaurant, then give me both, because I want an experience tailored for me. If I'm in a Pub, please give me a digital menu, because god knows what is encrusted in those physical menus. Now, having to listen to a waiter recite a menu from memory is just plain bizarre. I've been to a lot of fancy restaurants and I've never seen this. The specialty of the day? Sure. But never the whole menu. Worse than having a written menu in a format you don't like would be having no written menu at all.
- scythe 3y ago
  I never liked the version where the waiter explains the menu options because I always forget them by the time I need to order.

jrochkind1 3y ago

A pub I used to love is now order on the QR code menu, pay on the app it leads you to -- you see a server exactly once to drop off your food. I still tip 20% every time because that's how I roll, but it doesn't feel great, and mostly I just don't go there anymore. I'm on the computer and mostly by myself all day, if I'm out I actually want to not be on my phone and be interacting with humans? If I am out with a group, the last thing we want is to all by on our phones ordering (and being distracted by notifications etc)

neogodless 3y ago

Nice restaurants have (physically) big menus that are easy to scan and read. You can see sections, specials, and you can browse easily. Smart phones are typically less than 7" across. Best case scenario is they learn from McDonald's (which uses like a 35" screen...) with big categories to click and then a few items per category. But it'll still be tiny.

seattle_spring 3y ago
Usually nice restaurants have small menus with only a few carefully selected options based on the season. Which restaurants are you referring to that have "big menus"?
- neogodless 3y ago
  I mean physically large menus. Not menus with a large quantity of selection.
- lozenge 3y ago
  I know a wide range of nice restaurants. There's the seasonal French guff you mention, but there's also pizzas, places that have breakfast menus, curry houses...
  - brewdad 3y ago
    A curry house can have delicious food. I don't know that I've ever considered a curry house a nice restaurant.
  - seattle_spring 3y ago
    Hmm I am definitely not referring to French restaurants, at least not more than 2-3% of what I'm thinking of but ok.

jandrese 3y ago

I'm personally a bit torn on this. One of my local restaurants has the QR menu and it is a whole system. The waiter doesn't even come to the table, you just put your order in on your phone and they deliver it when it is ready. All in all, it's much more efficient and it means you're never waiting for your waiter to reappear if you want to order another drink or something. You also pay the bill through your phone, which avoids the need to hand your credit card to the waiter. It probably saves at least 5-10 minutes per table, meaning possibly one more turnover during each dinner period. You do lose a bit in the personal interaction. There's also no chance to ask the waiter questions about the menu or ask for recommendations.

COGlory 3y ago
Soon there will be a GPT that will handle questions and recommendations. And probably a robot that will bring you your food.
shostack 3y ago
A local restaurant did this. However in making you pay for your order up front they also ask for the tip then. And they play the usual games to try and get you to pay more than the typical 20%. The server drops your food off and you never see them again. It's a horrible experience.
- southernplaces7 3y ago
  20% ? what the fuck justifies that as an automatic tip, except exceptionally good service. Absurd nonsense. All the more so if you barely interacted with the supposed waiter during your ordering process.

neverrroot 3y ago

I prefer a real menu, but there are people that feel pressure when holding one, or interacting with the personnel, but I’m not convinced they do the right thing for themselves trying to keep it digital to avoid interaction in the real world with real people. There are of course a few advantages to having a menu available immediately, including for ordering something afterwards, but I got into the habit of always asking for a menu to be left at the table. Not only for this reason. In general I also enjoy interacting with the personnel when ordering, having a real menu definitely helps with that.

bdcrazy 3y ago

I can imagine if it hasn't happened yet, it will happen soon enough where QR code menus will be tailored to the person. Change the order of items and possibly even costs to try and drive the individual diner to choose the options that are better for the restaurant. Digital menus already offer many of these perks for the restaurant, and I suspect forcing around the margins can definitely make a difference at the expense of the customer.

wait_a_minute 3y ago
Yeah, this is why I don’t want to use QR codes. Prices need to be set in writing and be the same for everyone, although I’m okay with things like discounts for seniors, students, active service members, etc.
asvitkine 3y ago
I don't see that happening except at very big businesses like chains. Most locally owned restaurants have trouble maintaining a working website let alone something so complicated.
- paleotrope 3y ago
  That's where a lean and hungry third party startup comes in and offers to take a little piece of that action in exchange for handling all the backend work.
morkalork 3y ago
Tack on some image recognition to gauge customers "value" as they walk in and track where they sit. See a party sporting luxury bags and watches and charge them a little bit extra eh? Add in some facial recognition too to keep prices consistent between visits and voilà.
kragen 3y ago
right, fingerprint the user's browser, or leak the phone mac address, so you can offer low promotional prices to new diners for their first month
3y ago

dbg31415 3y ago

> I’m not alone in my dislike of QR codes. OK, but there are so many great uses for them! Wifi passwords... just let people scan a photo to join the network. Duh! Sharing your contact details... why are we messing with Bluetooth when both Apple and Android support QR codes?! Next time you're at a convention, just set your contact card (Vcard QR Code) as your phone home screen image... so much easier to share details vs. watching people try and bump between devices not knowing if it'll work. "Did you get it, I don't know if I'm bumping in the right place... did it send? Do you have airdrop on?" Ha. It's silly. No clue why Apple and Android don't just have a QR share option. =P Sending SMS... I love the "vote for X with this code, vote for Y with this code" options. Just an easy way to network people, again, regardless of what device they are on. QR codes are great! Maye not if you want to go to Italy and feel a paper menu, maybe not so much... but there's still plenty of great uses for QR codes. https://www.qr-code-generator.com/ https://www.qr-code-generator.com/

sschueller 3y ago

I refuse to go to any restaurant in Switzerland that has qr only menu and does not accept cash. Not accepting cash is against the law[1] but sadly there is no penalty defined. The argument is always it costs to much to deal with cash. You know what also costs money? Cleaning the kitchen, I wonder what other laws these companies think are ok to ignore. [1] https://www.fedlex.admin.ch/eli/cc/2000/186/en#art_3 https://www.fedlex.admin.ch/eli/cc/2000/186/en#art_3

randomdata 3y ago
Interesting law. That means that if you want to take a holiday from work you can just pay your employer the equivalent cash value of your labour instead of showing up and there is nothing your employer can say about it since they are always required to accept money as payment. In fact, you can evade all contractual obligation by offering money in place of what was expected to be paid. I can see why it isn't generally honoured.
- sschueller 3y ago
  I don't have a problem with certain exceptions for online only retail or other specific cases. For example if you are a very small business. The law needs an update for sure.
  - randomdata 3y ago
    Wouldn't it be much be easier to list the small handful of cases where you want it to apply? Think I am going to pay you in my house when you pay me money for said house? Ha! By this law, I can simply give you your money back. You are obligated to accept it since you must always accept money as payment, and now the house you lived in prior is gone. Seems incredibly problematic for the vast majority of transactions. Which is no doubt why nobody actually follows it.
    - sschueller 3y ago
      A million Swiss francs in bill form isn't that much. We have CHF 1,000 denominated bills and the law states the maximum in coins is CHF 100 that you have to accept.

graton 3y ago

Another thing with digital menus is it will allow restaurants to do dynamic pricing. A bit harder with paper menus.

taftster 3y ago
Sadly, you are correct. It used to be that prices didn't change that frequently and a printed menu would not be too much overhead. Now, prices are changing so rapidly, it's a non-trivial cost associated with printing new menus every time the price changes. I think digital menus are accommodating of the restaurant owner, in this regard. But they sure suck for customers, or at least, for this customer.
randycupertino 3y ago
And remove things if they're sold out, easily add specials etc.

dougbarrett 3y ago

I've seen this argument come up frequently and I find this is just a weird hill to die on. I can see where the author is coming from as far as taking you out of the experience, but QR codes and NFC absolutely have a place in the restaurant ordering experience and I'm here for it.

seattle_spring 3y ago

Interesting that the person in OP was in Italy when they realized they hated QR menus. I'm in a South American city where the QR menus are pervasive, and I love it because it's so, so easy to immediately translate it to English. I get that you can take a photo of a physical menu and do the same thing with Lens, but the QR menu removes a few pieces of friction and has generally been a positive feature.

naitgacem 3y ago

Honestly, if I'm going to a restaurant especially with other people, I prefer to leave my phone behind. I try to never bring a "smart" device. This QR code thing is just another mine in the field of trying to live in society today without a smartphone. Other notable mines being online banking, apps to access government issues documents. A lot of this nowadays require an app. If i want to find out my health insurance status? it's an app, no website. Heck even checking my grades at uni requires i install some sketchy app! it used to be posted at the department entrance...

alt227 3y ago

My family and I go to a cafe for breakfast most saturday mornings. The one place we usually go to has no phone signal at all anywhere in the ~150 seat restuarant. Its part of the reason I like going there. We turned up last weekend to see they had put new QR code menus on all the tables. I had no intention of using them so I ordered from the counter as I usually do, knowing they wouldnt even work because of the lack of phone signal. I spent over an hour that day silently chuckling as I watched pretty much every single customer pick up the QR code menu and try to use it. I saw a few get really annoyed and end up leaving. Im not sure how much damage the place did to their clientel in a single day, but I went back yesterday and they had all been removed. You couldnt make it up!

rolph 3y ago
sounds like a good case for preserving opt-outs anytime you try something new.
workingdog 3y ago
Please tell them. They probably got a huckster in there who sold them the QR code madness by promising them increased sales.
- AussieWog93 3y ago
  Slight tangent: I've noticed that robot waiters seem to never actually be doing their jobs, and the presence of one in the store is the sign of the restaurant being poorly managed. The idea that there could be hucksters selling these door to door to bad managers explains so so much.
addandsubtract 3y ago
Wait until someone encodes an entire menu in the QR code.
- WelcomeShorty 3y ago
  With the (ATM) highest version of QR codes and the minimal error correction, you're limited to 4,296 bytes(0). And V40 is not something I've seen(1) in the wild :) 0: https://www.qrcode.com/en/about/version.html https://www.qrcode.com/en/about/version.html 1: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Qr-code-ver-40.svg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Qr-code-ver-40.svg

digitalsushi 3y ago

I think they are great. Last night we went to a little Thai restaurant in New Hampshire and we self-seated, sat down, realized there was a QR code for menus and to register that the table was occupied; a half hour later two bowls of pad thai were delievered to our table for 70 dollars plus 20% tip. For 84 bucks we had a small meal and almost no human interaction: the perfect night for half of us, and the worst experience possible for the other. Whether I'm being completely sarcastic or not is not detectable because this thing is damned divisive.

b112 3y ago
I hope it's sarcastic at 84 dollars for two bowls!!
geodel 3y ago
Wow, two awesome bowls of Pad Thai under 100 dollars with no human interaction. Sign me up!

mherdeg 3y ago

It's fascinating to me that we went from "embedding important information in QR codes is silly because they look ridiculous and no one will ever use them" ( https://picturesofpeoplescanningqrcodes.tumblr.com/ https://picturesofpeoplescanningqrcodes.tumblr.com/ ) all the way to "sweet, I can read the whole menu online and order and pay when I'm ready, this is great" in like 3 months.

thfuran 3y ago
There are surely groups of people holding those opinions, but I don't many move from one to the other in any given three month period.
smt88 3y ago
That only happened because of Covid, which was, to put it mildly, a driver of major cultural shifts.

arthurgibson 3y ago

This reads like a farewell and it probably is the next generation of dining. In North America the workforce isn’t there to staff restaurants and some of these digital menus allow you to order without staff needing to support it. We should start to encourage some online menu standards though to welcome it in.

poulsbohemian 3y ago

Supposedly the new trend is no menus or service at all - instead, you order at the counter even at more upscale places…

kshahkshah 3y ago

I don’t like them. But I’m not sure how many people in this thread have friends in hospitality who are owners. They LOVE them. Labor costs are killing restaurants, not having wait staff makes a huge difference to them

ok123456 3y ago

If the restaurant has so many things on the menu where it's a cost savings to do this, there is no cooking real happening there. Everything is frozen and reheated . Don't waste your time and money there.

smt88 3y ago
This is always a cost-saver. Paper menus are never free, and they get filthy or damaged easily. You should see a QR code as indicating the opposite, actually: that the menu is refreshed often enough that paper is impractical.
- ok123456 3y ago
  Lamination solves the problem of them getting dirty and damaged. The QR code thing happens more often than not at chain restaurants, which are just reheating frozen slop, rather than bistros that are changing their menu daily.
  - smt88 3y ago
    Laminating menus is even more expensive and makes the problem worse. > The QR code thing happens more often than not at chain restaurants, which are just reheating frozen slop, rather than bistros that are changing their menu daily. This is the opposite of my experience. I can't think of a chain that uses them. Chains have enough money to print laminated menus, and their menus don't change.
rolph 3y ago
there was a time when senior kitchen staff, actually went shopping, for quality ingredients.

frankus 3y ago

Now that there’s no longer a giant pool of unemployed workers in North America who could otherwise be employed to courier food orders from a restaurant’s table to its kitchen, there’s a real tradeoff between a human doing a job that only a human can do and a human doing a job that a robot (or a website) could easily do with current tech.

kindatrue 3y ago

Counterpoint: I don't love getting sticky paper menus full of stains... or for the ones that are in folios, full of crumbs.

will5421 3y ago
If the menus are dirty, imagine what the kitchen’s like. Now, with QR codes, you can’t tell.

xcskier56 3y ago

One weird thing I’ve noticed is that many of these pdf menu in the us are hosted on an s3 bucket in the EU. I’ve tried ti see a pattern in the applications but haven’t noticed anything

bitwize 3y ago

I've seen this maybe once or twice. Maybe it's just a matter of which restaurants we choose to patronize, but virtually all of them offer paper or laminate menus for us to use. The only time we are forced to use an electronic menu is when we order via DoorDash.

lasean 3y ago

Side Topic (Menus With Photos): There seems perception in the US that menus with pictures of the food are less sophisticated or cater to a less discerning clientele. In Asia, photos of the food in the menu is more of the norm than the exception (even for more upscale places). I discover more items I like when the photos are present. I would take QR codes with foods photos over a physical menu without (even for a $$$$ restaurant.

prmoustache 3y ago
Unless the photos are of a very good quality and the print hasn't been washed out over the year, food pictures in menus usually give me disgust.
- lasean 3y ago
  Agree. That's point. I'd rather scan a QR code that links to great photos than have a printed menu with no photos. They informally call them food picture books in restaurants I've eaten at in China, Indonesia, Japan, and Singapore. Example: https://www.kawanointernational.com/assets/file/KADO%2008%202023%20.pdf https://www.kawanointernational.com/assets/file/KADO%2008%20...

sublinear 3y ago

Slightly off topic, but since we're complaining about restaurant menus I think most of them are a complete mess in the first place. They either try to cram too much on one page, or require too many pages. It's not even necessarily that there are too many items, but that the design is shitty. Extra turd points if the page wastes the margins with noisy decoration or stock photos of drunk people smiling wielding margaritas or whatever and half of it is redundant ads for their specials. Don't get me started about glossy paper that's impossible to read under the glare of the accent lighting festooning the tables.

LAC-Tech 3y ago

I remember a lot of the breakfast places in Taiwan they had this little notepad on the front counter. It had the entire menu on it, printed on plain paper about a5 size. You'd take a piece of paper, and tick the boxes next to the item you wanted to order, then take it back up to the front. Solves all the problems this QR code thing does, while being cheaper, more convenient, and reliable.

marcuskaz 3y ago

What I hate about QR code ordering is that it puts me in charge of getting everything right. It takes way too much time, so when I go out with my family I have to hunt around for each item, make sure I put it in exactly how they want it, and now any mistake even if the kitchen goofed is now my mistake. "Dad, you ordered it wrong! There's ketchup on my burger" Plus half the time I forget to even enter my own order trying to get everyone else's and double checking it's all correct. So my meal comes out late. The paying and getting up and leaving without having to wait for the waiter to bring the check is nice, but the ordering part is not worth the hassle.

crazygringo 3y ago
> and now any mistake even if the kitchen goofed is now my mistake. Funny, in my experience it's precisely the opposite. It means I never have to feel awkward because there's no longer any uncertainty over whether I said the wrong thing or the server wrote it down wrong. If the food or drinks come out wrong, there's irrefutable proof I ordered correctly, and it's the kitchen's job to fix it. (And in my experience in restaurants, 95% of the time something has come out wrong, it's been the server's fault, not the kitchen's. So with QR ordering the problem almost goes away completely.)
- porphyra 3y ago
  Yes exactly, it's so annoying to have to make sure if the server actually heard what I said. And often near the end of a meal we would be waiting for a dish that never came and be unsure whether the kitchen is just taking a long time, whether we forgot to order it, whether the server forgot it, etc. If there had been a digital order receipt then there would never be any question.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
mft_ 3y ago
(I wrote an earlier reply to you, then deleted it, but keep on thinking about your post, so have come back to it. Please feel free to ignore me completely, but be sure that this brief comment is written with the very best of intentions.) I (obviously) have no particular insight into your situation, but I can't help thinking that in the situation you describe, QR code ordering isn't the root cause of your stress, but is maybe triggering stress related to other issues within your group dynamic? Consider a generic family group: in general, on most occasions, should they be able to work out how to order food together without too much stress being generated? I don't think that's an unreasonable expectation. And if you're not able to do this, maybe it's time to both introspect and discuss (with your partner, and/or children?) why - and consider new approaches to the situation and the problem.

lemoncookiechip 3y ago

Much prefer the touchpad approach, where they have one near each table, you pick what you want and it goes directly to the kitchen and runs up a tab. At the end you pay like normal and that's it. It's a digital menu that doesn't require my device in any way. These are rare from what I've experienced though.

nsxwolf 3y ago

When you're going out as a family of 6, passing around a single iPhone is a nightmare. Making customers actually order from the phone is nightmare^3.

maximus-decimus 3y ago
I'm honestly curious what age kids start having a phone with a data plan these days. It's wild that the IPhone barely existed when I finish high school 15 years ago and that now I'm asking myself if 5 years olds all have ones.
- nsxwolf 3y ago
  Most of the kids in my 12 year old’s class have their own phone. For now, we have one “kids phone” that we let them pass around in case one is getting dropped off at sports, or a friend’s house or something.

xyst 3y ago

I don’t see an issue with QR code menus. It’s the poor UX I have an issue with. Often times it’s just a pdf or image that results in unnecessary pinching/zooming. I’ve used great “qr code” menus but the plethora of shit implementations make it unattractive as a whole.

dredmorbius 3y ago
Contrast: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39070466 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39070466>

dang 3y ago

Related. Others? People Hate QR-Code Menus. Now Restaurants Are Ditching Them - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36094653 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36094653 - May 2023 (16 comments) The QR-code menu is being shown the door - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36065666 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36065666 - May 2023 (368 comments) Off the menu: why restaurants are ditching QR codes - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36053661 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36053661 - May 2023 (1 comment) The Restaurant Industry’s Worst Idea: QR Code Menus - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33387760 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33387760 - Oct 2022 (636 comments) QR code menus are the death of civilization - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31758817 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31758817 - June 2022 (11 comments) Ads on QR code menu of the restaurant - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30391754 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30391754 - Feb 2022 (8 comments) Show HN: An app to create QR Menus - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29305129 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29305129 - Nov 2021 (29 comments) QR codes have replaced restaurant menus. Industry experts say it isn’t a fad - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28259474 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28259474 - Aug 2021 (23 comments) Ask HN: What's been the best usage for QR code apart from restaurants menus? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27815545 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27815545 - July 2021 (30 comments) Bring back menus, QR codes are terrible - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27671392 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27671392 - June 2021 (710 comments) Show HN: I built a simple QR menu creator for restaurants to avoid Coronavirus - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24847657 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24847657 - Oct 2020 (4 comments) QR Menu Creator - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24847588 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24847588 - Oct 2020 (2 comments)

gwbas1c 3y ago

I've encountered so many QR code menus that don't work that I don't even bother anymore. At this point I act mildly insulted when I'm told that there's no paper menu. (I say something like, "Really, there's no more paper menu? I don't do QR codes.") Go ahead and call me stubborn: I have a 0-tolerance policy for broken tech, and that bridge is already burnt.

oliwarner 3y ago

But also, letting me pay and leave without having to catch the eye of an overworked, underpaid waiter, mime paying and wait for the one card-reader to become available is golden. Why not both? Online ordering via table-unique QR if you want it, otherwise wait for service. They're all going through the same system so you can mix and match.

r0s 3y ago

QR codes seems to be living on borrowed time, saved from obscurity by the pandemic. Why can't my phone just read a printed URL by now? There's no reason the same information can't be human readable as well as easy for my phone to scan. I suppose it would require some kind of design paradigm to really denote text that could also be scanned, maybe a specific font style. Anyway it seem likely to me QR codes are eventually replaced by simple text.

mixmastamyk 3y ago
QR is more compact and higher accuracy.
- r0s 3y ago
  And not human readable, is my point. The value tradeoff in accuracy and compactness is the question. Will that be enough to sustain QR codes? I don't think so. Also most QR codes seem to include a text url nearby the code anyway, so there goes the "compactness" argument. In that case it's redundant information as well.
  - mixmastamyk 3y ago
    The compactness refers to the length of the url. Most mobile oriented stuff prefers portrait orientation. Not to mention colors, fonts etc. QR avoids all these issues. Maybe something better will come along but will have similarities.
    - r0s 3y ago
      QR has the same contrast requirement for colors to be read. I'm not sure about this compactness idea, especially since the text url is usually right there with the QR code, in the same space.

eh_why_not 3y ago

Perhaps the best setup is for restaurants to implement both systems; physical menu available as well as QR. Question for people who prefer QR: how do you know you're not getting priced higher than other customers?

prmoustache 3y ago
You are not priced differently if you order from a menu obtained by a QR code. It seems people are mixing up qrcode linked menus with online ordering. These are 2 different things.
- brewdad 3y ago
  Well you could be getting priced differently. Restaurants could place different QR codes at "desirable" tables compared to the average or worst tables in the house. Would you know? I'm not aware of any place doing this but it's a simple example that wouldn't even require any type of dynamic pricing setup just a second or third version of the menu with a unique link.

NoZebra120vClip 3y ago

What I've been doing for fast-food is to order ahead of time, usually while I'm en route on the bus. Google Maps has a unified interface that links out to the various delivery services, and the restaurant's own website if it's available. Then I order a meal for pickup, and it's all specified and paid in whatever app I used. Then I arrive at the restaurant and my meal is all bagged up to go, then I tell the counter girl that this meal is "for here" and may I please have a knife? "No, we don't have knives anymore." How about a tray? "No, due to the COVID-19 pandemic." So far they have tolerated my presence as I sit at a table and eat the meal on top of the paper bag.

OfficeChad 3y ago

[dead]

o0ower0o 3y ago

I get the nostalgic nature of the article, but it feels unfair as it seems to compare the "best physical menu experience" to the "worst digital" one. At its best, a menu can be a nice leather "book". At its worst, it is a one page plastic menu that has been touched by hundreds of people before you and never cleaned, it is also probably ruined or broken on the corners and in the middle, and has also a lot hand-made corrections to ingredients and prices that makes reading it way more frustrating. At the same time, a digital menu can be easy to navigate (with sections based on first courses, second courses, appetizers, etc.), it can show you the pictures of the food you're going to order and, sometimes, allows you to order without waiting for someone. Even at their worse, I still prefer the digital version as it is more hygienic and I don't have to wait 15 minutes for a waiter if they forget to bring one to the table (and then we also have to share that between 6 people).

Beldin 3y ago
The article is about menus, not ordering. Physical menus can include photos and be easy to navigate. Most physical menus have separate sections for appetizer, side dishes, main course, etc. It's possible to incorporate ordering online into a paper menu (QR code/codes) for folks who don't want to wave at a waiter. In addition, a physical menu does not require you to use data or log on to the restaurant's wifi, is guaranteed not to track your browsing through the menu, can take up far more physical space than available on a phone screen, and won't start the dinner by everyone looking at their phones (and someone forced to help out the technically-challenged party member). Ordering without waiting is nice. Navigating a digital menu is too often a pain. Want to add a drink? That's on another tab, please wait while we load&render, no it's further down, oh you wanted non-alcoholic? Want to change your main? Okay, let's first remove it (load basket), go back to ordering, go back to main dishes... Oh didn't you want that appetizer? Load again and scroll to see if your memory triggers... etc etc etc. sigh.

efields 3y ago

I’d just like restaurants, cafes, etc to have an easier time operating here in the states. There is so much overhead to just serve people food, the most foundational service to offer a person. Do I have specific examples? No, but industry friends, anecdotal stories, etc…

hscontinuity 3y ago

I have extensive restaurant experience on all levels and while philosophically the importance of that experience would subjectively suggest a bias in my statements, I assure you I offer only my philosophical approach to this particular dilemma in the industry. QR codes aren't novel in their approach to information; they are rather applicably similar barcodes. I think generally speaking most would agree. This is the disconnect for most of humans. Generally speaking, when instituting out-of-the-norm operating standards in a generally selective common environment, most tradition is bonded with rather than against. Such as a QR code as an example in replacing physical menus with physically-required experiences. Such as; walking in to physical place, sitting down or standing somewhere, picking up or looking at a written menu, speaking to someone (perhaps soon enough to be, some thing), ordering something to eat, eating said items, paying for said items, maybe a visit to the loo or not, and leaving the physical establishment. When you insert a new method that (generally speaking) detracts from societal norms, it isn't a question of whether it works or doesn't work it's purely a matter of fucntion for the experience. Example: If there were a true 'ghost kitchen' which also had a (let's just say hypothetically) street-facing counter window due to (again, hypothetically) extremely small real estate space for the transactional process of obtaining the food, like a 2x2' window where you pickup the food - and the entirety of the transactional process from the financial arm of this experience, were to functionally as such: scan QR code above window, place order, pay/send order, wait nearby window, pickup food as ready. That'd make sense. But not so much when you or you and a group or more are interested in sitting down inside a physical space, expecting a physical experience. The two are not equal and should be used as the experience is required, in my very humble, 25+ years of experience in this very industry, opinion.

AussieWog93 3y ago

Really enjoy the irony that an article complaining about how technology ruined dining shoves a full-page popup in your face while you're halfway through the article.

bhpm 3y ago

I'm not sure I've ever seen anyone forced to use a QR code restaurant menu. As other comments have said, the wait staff is usually more than happy to grab a physical menu for you. For me, though, I use it as an opportunity to ask the wait staff what they recommend.

phreack 3y ago

A different point of view from a particular experience. In a country with rampant accelerating inflation, QR codes brought on by pandemic protocols were an unexpected saviour to the problem of having to mark up prices every week or month. The experience itself sucks in most places as you might have seen due to terrible tech stacks to host the menu, but the benefit of not having to print or markup so many menus have made QR a must. Funnily, I have an unfounded hunch that making price hikes so easy have in fact helped speed up inflation by a small bit.

Pelayu 3y ago

My main complaint about QR codes used like this is that at most restaurants I have been to will link to a pdf file that you then have to pinch-zoom all around the document to read it on your small phone screen - a bad UX.

ta_9390 3y ago

I have left many coffee shops just after enter without ordering because they only have QR menu and no WiFi. It feels insulting that I need to spend my limited Data package just to help you earn money. Even when the waiter offer to show me the menu on his phone, it felt overcomplicated process and I cannot imagine a business delibrately making it that difficult to order without expecting profits to decrease.

apexalpha 3y ago

I think QR code menu's can be a great. You can show your menu in every language imaginable. You can let guests filter for allergies or dietary restrictions. You can easily update your menu's if something runs out or changes. There are many benefits. But please, people. Have a normal menu, too. You are not McDonalds, and if you want to be I expect McDonalds pricing too.

advael 3y ago

It really seems like a lot of little complaints people have about little technological choices (like QR code menus) are increasingly complaints about the larger technological context they exist in (like the mobile ecosystem, controlled by the apple-google duopoly to fragment our attention, harvest tons of personal data, and lock us in to the platform) I used to think this was an old person thing, but I see a lot of younger people who seem to resent their phones lately too. I got into tech because it was and still is fascinating and full of potential, but it's hard to deny that tech companies have become the poster child for this monopoly-sludge economy that is making so many people persistently miserable. That's how I read this article: A person who views even a pretty minor aspect of an experience (The florid prose and descriptions the author likes in menus could easily be on a QR-accessed menu too) as tainted by the presence of tech. It's a weird little tic of a complaint without that context, but in our current cultural moment it's not that strange, and says a lot about said moment

EasyMark 3y ago
Yeah I convinced my nephew to buy a 96 F150 extended cab that was basically rebuilt from the ground up and while it doesn't have all the modern amenities, he's the one everyone wants to hop in the car and go somewhere. they think it's cool and see that it's basically a great experience, if a lot more minimalistic than a Tesla. It's still got AC/heat/great stereo system(thanks to me!)/power steering/foot room. I think younger people can appreciate that tech doesn't necessarily bring a lot of added utility.

curtisblaine 3y ago

I like the modern trend of ordering through a website and having your food served at the table without needing to interact with anyone. The amount of forced interaction in normal life is already unbearable. Anything that removes it is welcome.

kanbara 3y ago

when people feel the need to write "impassioned polemic"s about the use of technology in reducing paper waste and moving the world into the modern era, i have to think of principal skinner from the simpsons. i love and appreciate the world greatly, and physical objects too, but i've never once felt a thrill from touching a paper menu which outweighed the convenience of using a QR code and mobile system to order food. the joy of dining out comes from social interaction not holding a menu

wkat4242 3y ago

Here in Barcelona it's mainly Asian restaurants that still do this. Indeed extremely annoying. It also kinda breaks the etiquette "when in a restaurant you're not messing with your phone" because all the phones end up on the table and stay there.

sokitome 3y ago

I totally agree with the premise of Anne's article. Using a QR code for a menu or to place an order is so sterile and just ruins part of the reason for going to a restaurant in the first place, which is some sort of social interaction. Using a QR code to pay the bill is even more obnoxious as now a third party is being interjected into the payment/data tracking wheel of user surveillance. Technology is a great thing, but it can certainly be used in ways that are just plain degrading to a considerate life as a human being.

rodrigo5244 3y ago

The same thing could be said about online posts. Please don't make me use another online post, write an article in a magazine for me to read.

sandmn 3y ago

I don't mind QR code menus too much but often they are paired with ordering/payment system and these are too unreliable. Sometimes it can take my order, sometimes it just can't or I have to ask a friend with a different phone. Also, typing you card number on a phone is irritating, not to mention that I know nothing about that website and how secure it is.

GnarfGnarf 3y ago

I hate the bad design of the QR menus. You come in looking for a burger, and they make you wade through page after page of beer and wine.

antisol 3y ago

What do you mean "make"? 1. Stand up, say to cashier "I'm going somewhere that has an actual menu" 2. Go to another restaurant that has an actual menu 3. Order Food 4. Eat Food

southernplaces7 3y ago

Just don't use the QR. Flatly refuse. you're the customer and it's not an unreasonable line to draw. If they don't like it enough to not adapt, one less customer.

hEzo 3y ago
So without a QR, there's also one less customer who needs a QR to order.

gloosx 3y ago

oh i hate these too, and especially the places which completely remove the paper menus and leave only the digital version available, setting a requirement for customer to have a charged smartphone with internet connection with you. I don't even always carry my phone with me when i'm dining out, and even when i do, it can be out of battery or data plan, so it is always some asking for the freaking charger and wifi password, waiting until it have enough juice to turn on, going through public router captive menus etc before i can see the menu, absolutely outrageous feature of the new world

fennecbutt 3y ago

As a millennial I actually prefer QR/order to table menus apart from fancier restaurants (places like Gordon Ramsay's). This guy talks about appreciating the weight and realness of a physical menu, but the proceeds to write an article about it that I'm reading online and not in a paper newspaper or magazine.