17 ms·

Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

• airbreather 3y ago
  years ago I went to the local fete in a town of some 200 people about an hour from the main city in our state (Australia) and I bought what I think is the best toaster I have ever seen, no moving parts. It was sort of like a little metal toast cave with a single rod like element running along the back. It used reflectance from that heating element to toast - you put the toast in horizontally and it was like a very small toaster oven with no door, but more stylish. And I wish I could fully remember but there may have been some kind of auto off device and some nuances for toasting one side more than the other, but because it was like a frog mouth opening you could fit fat bread, buns, rolls, you could do toasted cheese and so on. I could see why maybe some safety factors could be a problem in a modern world, but there were grills and guards to protect against accidental contact, it was double skinned to prevent external temps getting to hot to touch or ignite things, and it was about 50 years old when I got it and still working perfectly. If I ever see another one I am buying it regardless of price. I feel that success would only be likely if you presented a new (or old) paradigm on what a toaster is. I mean, you can always just break out the heat gun, it's loud, inefficient, maybe a little dangerous, but you can get your toast exactly how you want it. Second last toaster I bought I decided to lash out on a fancy $150 one - it lasted no longer than the $20 and toasted no better, so now I just go with low end ones.\
• PaulHoule 3y ago
  Great idea!
  • deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
• taivare 3y ago
  Good idea here is a catchy brand name which you’ll need . . Call it ‘Your Toast!’
  • mtmail 3y ago
    https://www.uspto.gov/ https://www.uspto.gov/ trademark search shows 'Your Toast' is not registered. 'Freedom Toast' was registered three times in the past but not currently.
    • jpm_sd 3y ago
      It could be a whole line of products. Make Breakfast Great Again!?
• photoGrant 3y ago
  I'd say you've found a slightly slower way of setting fire to your money
  • lazide 3y ago
    Than what? Hardware burns capital way faster than software (in general). Though it’s easier to spin BS reasons to burn billions on software maybe, since no one is expecting to actually hold the thing?
    • throwup238 3y ago
      > Than what? It's slightly slower than starting an airline or just making a giant money bonfire.
      • eru 3y ago
        Compare https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K_Foundation_Burn_a_Million_Quid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K_Foundation_Burn_a_Million_Qu...
        • throwup238 3y ago
          At least they got a famous art piece out of it. All OP will have afterwards is a bunch of unsold toasters and a newfound appreciation for bankruptcy protection.
          • eru 3y ago
            Well, OP would get a good story and life experience, too.
            • lazide 3y ago
              The same could be said about sticking your finger into a light socket. Less potential upside in that case though, hah.
• scrps 3y ago
  In my experience and not that I have tried every model but enough to say I am guessing they all suck as badly as the ones I have had. Space to improve exist, heating elements need fresh designs and more consistant heat distribution, should also be simple, I dont want options I want toast quick and easy.
  • alexanderchr 3y ago
    Tried this one from 1948? It’s only been downhill from there. https://youtube.com/watch?v=1OfxlSG6q5Y https://youtube.com/watch?v=1OfxlSG6q5Y
    • ink_13 3y ago
      If you're going to go to the effort to build a luxury/fancy toaster, this is the mechanism to use. Since the antique Sunbeam is increasingly hard to find, might actually be a compelling product, too, on top of the "Made in the USA" label.
    • scrps 3y ago
      It really has, I love that thing!
• gumballindie 3y ago
  No, you shouldnt learn how to build toasters. You should learn how to find people that build toasters, and have them build an MVP, take it to market see how it sells.
• account4mypc 3y ago
  my toaster is pretty crappy - i'd buy your toaster! my list of complaints - strong smell of chemicals when i first started using it - can be hard to remove things without burning myself e.g. english muffins - sometimes it burns things/sometimes it doesn't toast them enough. i have figured out which settings work for some common use cases, but it feels like a toaster should be able to figure it out w/out crazy complexity.
• vavooom 3y ago
  I wonder if there is a way to engineer a 'smart' toaster (no WiFi or major chip mind you) that could improve the detection of burning. Maybe the use of improved PID controller / ability to brown to your desired 'shade' of toastiness. Would be interesting to see!
  • meatmanek 3y ago
    I would love a toaster where the dial is a gradient from white to brown to black, and it uses a reflectometer (several?) to toast until the bread is the right color.
    • MostlyStable 3y ago
      That was invented nearly 100 years ago, and was discontinued in the 90s (and the commenter above you linked to a video about it). I advocate for doing that kind of design upthread. In my personal opinion, they died out about 10-15 years before the new wave of high end kitchen implements would have justified the higher price.
  • Marioheld 3y ago
    There is already a smart toaster that toasts the toast according to the desired browning level and not simply according to time. It even manages completely without high-tech. The only catch is that the model is 70 years old and is no longer in production. But there is a great video from Technology Connections on YouTube about it: The Antique Toaster that's Better than Yours Link: https://youtu.be/1OfxlSG6q5Y?feature=shared https://youtu.be/1OfxlSG6q5Y?feature=shared
• kstenerud 3y ago
  It would be nice to have an AI powered toaster that can provide me with early morning toast and light conversation.
  • YPPH 3y ago
    Go on, start imagining. You wake up to make your toast, press the button down, and see: * Sorry, you must complete a critical system update before proceeding. * Wi-Fi unavailable, please check the network. * Your AccuToast (TM) subscription has expired. Please update your details on the web. * Non-genuine bread detected, please ensure you purchase AccuToast (TM) certified bread. * Tampering detected, contact manufacturer.
    • User23 3y ago
      This happened with Pantelligent, except it just went dark because of a patent lawsuit. The app stopped working and the device became useless.
    • SantalBlush 3y ago
      Also, the AccuToast (TM) displays ads, to "help cover costs".
    • 6510 3y ago
      > Sorry, you must complete a critical system update before proceeding. backup systems! > Wi-Fi unavailable, please check the network. Ethernet and satellite connectivity! > Your AccuToast (TM) subscription has expired. Please update your details on the web. bread delivery service! (like hp ink) > Non-genuine bread detected, please ensure you purchase AccuToast (TM) certified bread. Right, you cant just laser the images onto anything. > Tampering detected, contact manufacturer. A flying toaster that returns to the mother-ship when poorly treated. edit: The true American toaster: It slices a whole loaf of bread, deep fries it then sugar coats the slices in randomized blue white and red patterns with stars. It should be gold with a picture of Trump on the side.
    • dylan604 3y ago
      Or wake up in the morning to find out the nightly OTA firmware update was bad and bricked your toaster.
• Humphrey 3y ago
  In Australia toasters are a weird product category. I cannot see any correlation to price and features/quality. The colour and style seems to be the only thing that separately them. I think a toaster that is objectively better than other toasters would be cool, but I've but it would be hard to beat my 10 year old A$20 Kmart toaster. But I suspect it would be a very difficult market to break into.
  • YPPH 3y ago
    Also Australian - agreed. I got a toaster and kettle combo from a premium appliance manufacturer for Christmas. I've since seen the exact same kit in Aldi under their own brand. It's not just similar, it's the exact same product.
  • farhanhubble 3y ago
    Also in Australia and in my experience everything here lacks aesthetics, quality and technological innovation, and is still a ripoff. The Kmart stuff is at least value for money and sometimes is quality too and owning it makes the most sense.
• MattGaiser 3y ago
  I have seen the lack of an American made toaster appear in several venues, so there is pretty clearly some interest in this topic. How many would buy one is another matter. I worked for a company that made customized versions of relatively basic electrical devices and they didn't spend much money on it (couple thousand for the prototypes and the devices they disassembled to copy). The one pitfall they did note was that being the best in quality was difficult and expensive and focused on being valuable in another niche. I am not sure that you need to make a good toaster. It may be sufficient to have an American toaster, even if it is no better than a typical toaster.
  • Dig1t 3y ago
    That is really interesting and it mirrors my intuition: there are 0 toasters on the market that have "Made in the USA" stamped on them. I think that there may be a decent sized market of people who will pay extra for that stamp on a normal household toaster.
    • ska 3y ago
      In the UK context, there seem to still be at least on "local" company: https://www.dualit.com/collections/toasters https://www.dualit.com/collections/toasters You can get NA versions, but they aren't cheap. I'm not sure why that company survived and US variants didn't.
      • domh 3y ago
        I used one of these at a hotel recently and the toast quality was second to none. When my current toaster bites the dust I'll be investing in one of these. I'm fed up with buying cheap stuff that's designed to break after 3 years.
    • deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    • kube-system 3y ago
      There are hundreds of toasters made in USA, but they're mostly commercial models because that is the only market willing to spend enough on a toaster to absorb the labor costs.
• spencerchubb 3y ago
  I know very little about toasters but I am rooting for you. Don't see much of these types of businesses on hackernews
  • dylan604 3y ago
    Sounds like the next Juicero potential. Maybe they can sell more if they make it "smart" so it can post a tweet about all of your toasting adventures. Then they'd be on HN. Oh, of course it'd have to be written in Rust
• quacked 3y ago
  I've had a similar idea, except in addition to toasters, it's midsize pickup trucks, washing machines, dryers, dishwashers... What I've found is that regulations make it impossible to sell simple machines, labor costs make it impossible to compete on price, lawyers make it impossible to go to market without being sued, and consumers who say they want reliable, well-made goods will balk and buy cheap stuff en masse when it comes down to the wire. And that's if you actually succeed in designing and manufacturing a good product. Someone could do it, I think. But I'm deterred by all the stuff I just wrote, and the people who succeed in businesses that seriously challenge the status quo are the ones aren't deterred by that stuff. And for every one guy who does succeed in pressuring the status quo, a hundred guys flame out... but again, guys who succeed aren't deterred by that either!
  • dylan604 3y ago
    >lawyers make it impossible to go to market without being sued, This would be my biggest concern. The potential field full of landmines that is the patent process would give me pause. Not spending the money to properly research because of bootstrapping the process could ultimately be more expensive if some other company comes after you for patent infringement. Whatever your idea is, I would definitely do some investigating before investing too much time and effort getting too far down the road to ultimately hit a patent caused dead end.
    • voakbasda 3y ago
      The trick is to tie it up in court for years, while you milk the marketplace. If you lose, pivot. That seems to be a standard playbook.
      • dylan604 3y ago
        I doubt a bootstrapped company has the finances to afford lawyers to tie it up for years. That's a lawyer's wet dream of a case being extended for years. The billing on a case like that alone could make someone a partner. Just because one side's legal playbook says delay, the other side can equally try to speed things along. Underestimate opposing counsel at your own expense, especially when they are funded with deeper pockets than yours.
• francisofascii 3y ago
  I assume the safety protocols required are an immense challenge. My recent toaster, for example, didn’t stop cooking and caught my cabinets on fire.
• bhag2066 3y ago
  Why not set your sights a bit higher? In Europe there's a few companies making locally sourced and more sustainable wind turbines the seem to be doing quite well.
• groby_b 3y ago
  This depends entirely on how much money you have to waste. I'd suggest, at the very least: * Hiring somebody who knows manufacturing to walk you through what you need to set this up. * Figuring out the cost of building a toaster in the USA * Figuring out the regulatory hurdles. * Figuring out if the people who keep clamoring for a national toaster infrastructure are willing to pay the actual money that requires. My experience is that a large number of people who profess to want built-in-USA want this only at a price point meeting current toasters. But with much better quality. If I were to jump into this market, I'd seriously consider running this as a lifestyle luxury item business, charging the few true believers a fortune for a "bespoke toaster hand-made entirely in the U.S.A", build them to last forever, and then maybe automate and build out into the mid-range from there. I'd still only do this with somebody with manufacturing knowledge working with/for me. And ideally with somebody else's money.
• passedandfuture 3y ago
  It almost seems like you're asking for permission. Instead, start this project if you're passionate about it and post your progress here on HN. I'm sure you can get lots of presales that way.
• hellbanTHIS 3y ago
  Add a voice assistant that only talks about toast. It can answer any question as long as it's about toast.
  • gnabgib 3y ago
    "You know the last time you had toast. 18 days ago, 11.36, Tuesday 3rd, two rounds. I mean, what's the point in buying a toaster with artificial intelligence if you don't like toast. I mean, this is my job. This is cruel, just cruel." (Call it Talkie)
  • imp0cat 3y ago
    I know you're kidding (are you?) but this can be easily accoplished by using the ChatGPT app with custom prompt and a bluetooth handsfree. You can also use the same trick to create talking plush toys, just hide the HF inside. ;)
• tptacek 3y ago
  Slot toasters, or toaster ovens? In an ironic way given your background, toaster ovens probably set you up against untenable competition: everybody who has ever built a toaster oven is currently jamming SBCs into them to run PID for "smart toasters". Prices are coming down and features are going up, plus these are product line extensions that create further price pressure on "non-smart toasters". There could be room to do something interesting with slot toasters, which are sort of a forgotten category.
• neelc 3y ago
  Maybe unrelated, but I have a Deciso DEC2752, which is an OPNsense firewall appliance. For some reason Deciso made it in the Netherlands instead of China or Taiwan. I don't know for sure how much cheaper, or more expensive it would be if it was Asian-made. It's unique for sure. It's a bit pricey but other firewalls were less-than-statisfactory. Chinese Mini PC boxes were too little, Supermicro Front I/O boxes were too much. I don't exactly like Netgate's alternative either.
  • c_o_n_v_e_x 3y ago
    "Made in" laws can be "hacked." For example, I can purchase fully manufactured printed circuit board assemblies in Taiwan or China. I then ship those boards to Singapore where I load firmware and do all my testing. I can then say that the products were "Made in Singapore" because the value of the firmware is greater than the entire hardware BoM. The above example comes from a colleague who used to work in the SSD business.
• vturner 3y ago
  Wish I could offer more than best wishes, but I am in a similar boat: pondering some product ideas while working as a SWE. This line caught my attention - "I also love learning about mechanical engineering and manufacturing" How do you go about that? Have you found any good books, YouTube videos, etc. that are accessible for us SWEs?
  • methodical 3y ago
    This may be a difference in learning preference, but I've always found the easiest way for me to learn about new topics was to jump into them directly. Supplemental reading could certainly help of course, so I apologize that I have nothing to provide in that area, but if you're interested in it I'd recommend just jumping in with simple projects and learning on your own from there- with assistance from just searching around for fundamentals on google. I hate to be the quote person, but I think this one fits perfectly; "The best time to plant a tree was 100 years ago, but the second best time is now" or "A journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step". Ignoring the cliche quotes, I'd just say the best thing you can do is dive in without any direct guidance and navigate the unknowns yourself. At the end of the day, starting off in the wrong direction is better than not starting at all. Good luck on your adventure!
    • vturner 3y ago
      Thank-you!
  • dv35z 3y ago
    Search for & take tours of community maker-spaces in your city. You’ll find people (often SWE) who switched over to 3D printing, metal working, robotics, wood working & more. They have classes, so you can get certified to use the tools - and you’ll just learn by hanging out, meeting fellow makers & checking out their projects. Best of luck on the journey - it’s a ton of fun.
  • iancmceachern 3y ago
    Check out: The secret life of machines. Engineer guy Tech ingredients Asianometry Fran's Lab And soon mine!
• User23 3y ago
  This is the kind of thing Kickstarter is for. It gives you a way to both raise funds and reliably establish that demand exists. And if the campaign fails then no harm no foul.
• rahimnathwani 3y ago
  How much do you think people would be willing to pay for this toaster? How many people like that are there? What will it cost you to make? For toasters or similar, what is the typical ratio of manufacturing cost to retail price? Is this enough to pay for distribution, marketing, logistics and returns?
• danielodievich 3y ago
  Related and relevant read https://www.thomasthwaites.com/the-toaster-project/ https://www.thomasthwaites.com/the-toaster-project/.
• ChilledTonic 3y ago
  Have you looked at other high quality toaster makers abroad? Dualit is in the UK and has been manufacturing high quality, hand built toaster for a long time, but most consumers would balk at the prices they ask for their appliances and I doubt you as a startup would be able to manufacture a toaster any cheaper. https://www.dualit.com/collections/classic-toasters https://www.dualit.com/collections/classic-toasters https://www.dualit.com/collections/spares https://www.dualit.com/collections/spares Frankly, I don't even own one, in spite of being a champion of the "buy it once" mentality. But it's on the bucket list.
  • pony_sheared 3y ago
    My in-laws had a Dualit toaster. I am convinced this brand only survives in the market because people think they want one to signify that they've "made it", like getting an Aga. The incredibly loud mechanical timer drove us all nuts. We always forgot to change the heating element (#slices) selector, so invariably ended up with one uncooked piece of bread. The pop up function is beefy but difficult to get escape velocity on small items. They eventually ditched it and went back to a £20 long slice Cookworks from Argos. They still have the Aga (also bloody annoying).
  • rexfuzzle 3y ago
    I have a dualit toaster and absolutely love it! You can get spare parts for it and repair it yourself. To me it's worth the 3x premium of its the only one I ever have to buy in my life. Yes, the timer is a bit loud and you have to think about how done you want the toast ever time, but it becomes automatic, i.e. I just know what the right setting is for a bagel.
  • gmac 3y ago
    The good thing about a Dualit is that, because (with repairs) they last approximately forever, you can always buy one second-hand. I paid about 3x what I would normally pay for a toaster for one on eBay. I expect it to last much more than 3x as long (a decent standard toaster usually lasts us around 3 years before something breaks unrepairably).
  • pfannkuchen 3y ago
• rvnx 3y ago
  Aren't the best toasters in Japan ?
  • mitthrowaway2 3y ago
    I haven't seen much in the way of pop-up toasters, but for toaster ovens, at least, they have really taken it above and beyond. Plenty of made-in-Japan models too. Unfortunately, toasters are one of those appliances that can be sensitive to grid voltage, so a toaster bought in Japan might not work as well in other countries.
    • fomine3 3y ago
      How much soft is top priority for luxury toasters market, so pop-up is nonsense because steam go out from the top.
• starky 3y ago
  I think you are greatly over-estimating how many people would be willing to pay the cost of a North American made toaster. This would require an absolute ton of capital to do it on anything above a craft scale. The challenges of design, testing, certification (very important for a device that could burn your house down), manufacturing, supply chain, and support that are all specialized careers in themselves. I've got more than decade of experience in designing products that are built in North America. I wouldn't touch a project like this unless it had a team of people with the proven manufacturing experience heading it up and some very convincing numbers about the commercial viability of the product because I don't believe they exist. There is good reason why the market only has commercial kitchen grade devices available.
  • dylan604 3y ago
    > I think you are greatly over-estimating how many people would be willing to pay the cost of a North American made toaster. Who wants a $75+ toaster just because it was "Made In USA"? Is it going to make toast better than a $15 toaster "Hecho In Mexico" or whatever other country? Even making the infrastructure to make a toaster would not do much in the way of increasing the manufacturing abilities in the US. What could it do if the War Powers Act were invoked? Or, am I just way too much of a simpleton to be able to see potential?
    • photonbeam 3y ago
      Id pay hundreds for a toaster built like a tank Not because I need that, I just enjoy overly heavy things
      • dylan604 3y ago
        The thing about heavy things is their sheer size. There's only so much counter space and cabinet storage. Then again, if you have the disposable cash to spend that kind of money on a toaster, you probably have a kitchen larger than the majority of people's apartment
        • 3y ago
• eru 3y ago
  People might _say_ they want something made locally, but when it comes to _spending_ money, they mostly care about price and quality, less about patriotism. Compare the paper 'Prejudice is Free, but Discrimination has Costs' https://cdn.mises.org/14_2_3_0.pdf https://cdn.mises.org/14_2_3_0.pdf In any case, if you are interested in fancy toasters, you might like to have a look at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OfxlSG6q5Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OfxlSG6q5Y
• mike-d 3y ago
  Check out the Fastlane Forum to get info on the areas you are lacking. There are some people there can help you find info in the areas you lacking.
• kraig911 3y ago
  I see so much stuff like bespoke bicycles and clothes made by 'craftsmen' in the USA. Maybe something like that industry but for kitchen appliances would be cool.
• reeddavid 3y ago
  Yes, you should do this. Will you add your contact info to your profile, or contact me from mine? I've been thinking the exact same thing about toasters. Here was my recent comment in the "Generation Junk" thread a few weeks ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38796570 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38796570
  • Dig1t 3y ago
    I should have put my email in my profile before posting, I just sent you an email :)
• snakeyjake 3y ago
  I also like buying things made locally, restricting the aperture of a product's origin to its absolute smallest possible in relation to my residence. I've even found tools made in my state! Whether or not you should try is up to you. But it is possible. Companies CAN compete with low-wage low-regulation areas but usually only on the high end. You can buy toasters from Ritter that are made in Germany and they retail for around $200. After a very cursory search I found a 1939 Sears catalog that listed an old-fashioned (a heating element surrounded by A-frame to hold the toast) toaster for $0.89 and a "Deluxe Automatic Toaster" for $8.95. A "Deluxe Automatic Toaster" is the kind that everyone buys today with adjustable toasting and automatic pop-up. $8.95 in 1939 is... $200. So you might want to start by doing some research into what people might want in a product once the price trends towards the high end of the market. My gut tells me, just based my desires and products that are still successfully being manufactured in the US that simplicity, robustness, and repairability are all extremely high, and wifi-enabled smartshit is very, VERY low on the "want" scale. Products like Vornado air circulators (dumb), Bunn coffee makers (dumb), and Red Wing boots (dumb) are all made domestically and have all been on the market for decades and cheap imports haven't killed them off yet-- and they are all simple, robust, and repairable. So DO NOT TRY TO MAKE THE JUICERO OF TOASTERS. Make a residential version of the Waring commercial toasters, something with good industrial design, simplicity, and repairability, made domestically (Waring moved production of their 4-slice toasters overseas long ago). Someone who spends $350 on Red Wing boots is willing to spend that much because they WILL get them resoled. Someone willing to spend $200 on a toaster probably attempts to estimate how long it will last, and is smart enough to know that a wifi chip or microcontroller is an unnecessary complication. I work in a field that makes physical things, but not mass-produced things. One pitfall I have observed with software folks moving in to manufacturing, such as programmers getting an MBA and PMP and moving into management is that the amount of time and money it takes to actually make a real physical object is almost incomprehensible to them. Also incomprehensible are the very real and very important quality control and safety components to manufacturing. Of course, if you worked on software in a safety-critical field this is old news.
• voisin 3y ago
  How about air poppers for popcorn? I have cycled through literally a dozen and all modern incarnations are totally shit, with improper designs that lead to way too many unpopped kernels. This is a market that could use the Dyson touch…
• defrost 3y ago
  ^F Solar No matches (yet) ??!! This is your niche, a bespoke toasting fork and a foldaway reflective parabolic trench, all stamped with a discreet Americab flag. * nuclear will take too long. * HVDS (High Vis Direct Sunlight) reflective tubes can pipe in sunlight from Australia during winter. * Rapid Early Scale Up Marketing - essential to get the volume before the bubble bursts. ( DM me for VC terms and assorted quotes from The Tibetian Book of the Dead )
• jws 3y ago
  I married into toaster moguls. When they sold out in '97, domestic toasters had been infeasible for years already. And this was for a company where all the knowledge, equipment, and facilities had beed paid for many decades before. (They invented the electric pop-up toaster for certain definitions of electric pop-up toaster.) Toasters are refined brilliance, if done right. The concept of "done" is computed using an analog computer programmed by human experts. (Ok, its usually a bimetal strip but it is placed so that the cooling of the moist bread keeps it from going off and your lighter-darker input is biasing when it considers the toast done.) Tear apart some toasters. There won't be anything in a modern cheap toaster that isn't absolutely required. Ask yourself why everything is the way it is. Research the UL requirements. I have the corporate 2 pound copper ball that had to be dropped on things from prescribed heights and not cause malfunction. Make sure you can hit this targets with what you think you can build. Also check the CE, they might have more modern rules. Be ready for litigation. Toasters catch fire. The toaster moguls were horrified whenever they saw someone's toaster under a cabinet. Decades after selling the business they were still being sued by mesothelioma suits for things like a repairman that got lung cancer and repaired home appliances, so he probably might have worked on one of their 1920's models with asbestos insulation. Don't let it stop you, but put the backup insurance into the expenses.
  • iancmceachern 3y ago
    I think it's a steel ball. Either way, it's a terrifying object, that ball, when flying through the air.
  • carabiner 3y ago
    I worked at a small aircraft company and one of the oldtimers told me lawsuits almost sank the company multiple times. As human transport, people WILL die in your product. Whether it's your fault or theirs, the lawsuits are a huge amount of money and no less important than the engineering quality. And so the company got lawyers and even a lawyer for president, not an engineer, and is still doing really well.
  • arghwhat 3y ago
    > Toasters are refined brilliance, if done right. The concept of "done" is computed using an analog computer programmed by human experts. That hasn't been the case in ages. Modern cheap toasters use a dedicated toaster chip (... yes), which is a plain timer but with built-in retained heat compensation for when the toaster is used back-to-back. Fewer components equals cheaper toaster. A very fancy toaster would have sensor for the bread (mimicking the Sunbeam) rather than a timer, but that's not common. Either way, any toaster you buy today is a digital computer. :)
• h317 3y ago
  About a month ago, I bought a toaster for Christmas, and, while walking in the alley and checking prices offline and online, I was mesmerized by the price strategies. With quantities that toasters operate in, their production cost is around a few dollars, and I bought one for $50 without any digital features. If you are planning to build one in the USA, you will probably need to tell yourself what "build in the USA" means. Is it PCB printing, PCB assembly, plastic production, mold production, cool design features, coil design, final assembly, or some combination of the above? You will be surprised to find some of the requirements to put "made in the X country." I do product development professionally, so take the comment as my bias, but it is a light project to start with as there are minimum components, you can build the entire thing in the garage, and it is something that everyone around you can give feedback on. Almost like an art project. Anyway, I would love to share any info you may find useful to start. Email in the profile, if you are interested.
• fxtentacle 3y ago
  I'd say give it a virtual try :) Fusion 360 is a horrible cloud lock-in, but it's also cheap and feature complete. Custom injection parts are expensive, but thin sheet metal you can cut at your local hackerspace. And now just try if you can design the mechanical functionality using only off-the-shelf screws and sheet metal parts with easy bend sequence. The control stuff is easy and cheap. KiCad is your friend. Once you have a prototype showing the rudimentary mechanical parts, you'll have a much better idea of the work and costs involved. Plan for about 8x mark-up from production costs to end-user price. And last but not least, many projects die because they cannot access the relevant market cheaply enough. I used to sell bikinis online, which was fun and profitable in the beginning. But once all those other boutique fashion brands started spamming Instagram, acquiring customers became too expensive so the entire operation wasn't profitable anymore. So try to estimate how much it'll cost you to advertise to prospective customers.
• deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
• c_o_n_v_e_x 3y ago
  >I also love learning about mechanical engineering and manufacturing, but have never actually tried making anything. I strongly recommend you hire professionals for this. I've worked as a Product Manager for physical products. There is a gulf of knowledge between designing something in CAD and designing something that will endure the rigors of toasting for 20 years. The previous sentence doesn't even cover the gulf of knowledge between taking a prototype to a design that's meant for mass production. I'm interested in creating a portfolio of open source appliances. Stuff that will last for life (or is at least repairable). If it's a "smart" applicance and open source, you don't need to worry about your appliance spying on you or being at the whims of a vendor who bricks your device for whatever reason.
  • jacknews 3y ago
    "I'm interested in creating a portfolio of open source appliances." Yes I'm very interested in that idea too. One thing I think is vital is to separate the UI and any smart features from the rest of the device. For example, cheap induction cookers have a single mcu which has the code for running the induction heater, and also runs the UI, with just a cheap display/button board as the physical interface. This mcu package seems to be at the heart of a huge number of brands, which are all then stuck with the same terrible UI. If the ui was running on it's own mcu, talking spi or whatever to the main controller, makers could differentiate with their own UIs. And hackers could hack.
• wenc 3y ago
  If I had money and was looking for a high end toaster, I'd pay $200+ for a European toaster like SMEG. It'd be more for the aesthetics than the functionality. When you're paying that much money for a functional item, you're buying into a story. When you have a SMEG appliance, you're buying a sophisticated identity and a conversation piece. You're telling people you appreciate Dieter Rams type industrial design. Somehow a Made in Michigan toaster doesn't have the same cachet. Neither do Black and Deckers or Cuisinarts. (that said, Breville from Australia is getting away charging $200 for its toasters)
  • tailrecursion 3y ago
    I agree, and this is just a by-the-way comment about Smeg. I always assumed Smeg was a bargain-basement brand because of its espresso machines, which appear to be rebadged Delonghi devices. There's one model that looks like a clone of the Dedica for example. As another commenter pointed out, coffee-makers are one area where people are willing to pay thousands, e.g. espresso machines made in Italy or Germany that are robust and largely authentic.* *Even though many follow virtually the same design and are made from near-commodity parts.
• jacknews 3y ago
  OK now I'm starting to think we live in the matrix - I've spend the last 24 hours (unemployed currently, you see) looking at toasters and designs, with the same idea. And because my toaster just broke. The state of toasters seems quite dire. Most are basically the same mechanism internally with different style covers. Some quick learnings/thoughts: - why are they open at the top? Some expensive Japanese toasters are more like grills or ovens, and sealing in steam seems to be key to their hyped results. - commercial toasters and some like west bend have 'drop thru' toasting, where the toast drops out of the bottom when done instead of popping up. Nice design. - Two slot toasters always power both slots even when toasting one slice. - Many toasters don't allow you to change the timer mid-toast. I mean you can change it, but it doesn't do anything until next cycle. Also few indicate how much time is left. - crumb trays don't work for many toasters, they're too narrow compared with all the places crumbs fall. - expensive 'old school' toasters like Dualit just don't have the features, and are too clunky. - the toasters with windows toast much more slowly (use tube heaters instead of a 'grid' of nichrome) and the window is useless anyway since the heater element makes everything orange. - One thing I find amusing is some reviewers are testing these $100,$200 toasters with regular supermarket chorleywood bread. I mean at least toast some actual bread, not foam.
  • throwup238 3y ago
    > - One thing I find amusing is some reviewers are testing these $100,$200 toasters with regular supermarket chorleywood bread. I mean at least toast some actual bread, not foam. If you didn't make the biga, poolish, or starter, it's not really bread. It’s just processed wheat product. </pointless elitism>
    • jacknews 3y ago
      <pointless comment ... /> A $200 toaster is already elitist, especially given that they don't seem to actually toast any better than the cheapest models. So why test with 'poor people's bread'? lol. Seriously though, I have a bread machine, maybe the cheapest model (lidl equivalent) which I love because of how easy it is to repair, and I make my own bread with little effort for maybe 1/2 the price of supermarket bread, and a world of difference in quality.
• ekimehtor 3y ago
  Why not try getting toasters from the reuse centres that divert such things from the landfill? Most times it's just a thermal fuse that pops due to a jammed piece of toast. That's a very cheap and easy repair and if you can't fix it, you can resell the heating elements for a good price.
• JohnnyHerz 3y ago
  I personally lament the total lack of quality kitchen appliances and would gladly pay a premium for quality long lasting appliances. I think that a toaster is a good place to start!
  • MostlyStable 3y ago
    What's funny about this is that, while very far from perfect, kitchen appliances is one of the realms where it's easier than just about any other market segment to find high quality, well designed, long lasting devices. Yes, there is whole oceans of cheap disposable garbage, but for people who care, you can get a high quality version of just about every single kitchen thing you might want.
• ekimehtor 3y ago
  https://a.co/d/2g7cOrc https://a.co/d/2g7cOrc folding Camp stove toaster Improve these so they will work on kitchen stoves and toast a custom logo or message on the bread. With a decent marketing campaign you could probably buy these Wholesale, modify them slightly and resell for 2 to 3 times the price.
  • ekimehtor 3y ago
    https://youtu.be/HPQbKTJPsU4?si=Z9SOFUaxupkr6LFA https://youtu.be/HPQbKTJPsU4?si=Z9SOFUaxupkr6LFA This wire bender looks fairly easy to make would work well to make custom logos or messages.
• slake 3y ago
  I don't know about toaster ovens but I've been considering if people would start building 'smart appliances' but with stock open source software. Eg A 'smart tv' with stock linux or something like that. For eg. I like Amazon echo as a device, but I don't like the Amazon software ecosystem around it. Could you produce an open device with the same hardware capabilities?
  • myself248 3y ago
    Oh my god, yes. I will buy a dishwasher if the controls are just a plain old ladder-logic PLC or something equivalently hackable. All I want is to tweak a few programs according to my relative cost of water vs energy, my personal value of time, my typical dish dirtiness, etc. The built-in programs make all the wrong assumptions. There's no reason I should need to contact a server in Virginia, much less China, to do that. Also, to OP's point, a narrow-slot toaster. I don't eat bagels or texas toast, I don't need wide-slots that waste energy and take longer. I just want a plain old single-function narrow slot toaster, which is apparently even more rare than the mythical single-roll of toilet paper. I would _happily_ pay 5x for one made in the USA.
• anmorgan 3y ago
  To mix in with other's comments. It's always good to have a target in sight, but building a physical product with no experience will be a long, expensive journey. I make physical and digital products as a consultant, the first thing I tell entrepreneurs is get to your first prototype. Not even an MVP, just something functional with the core features. Some times these are partial prototypes that work out various sub-systems. In this case, the actuation mechanisms, the heating elements with power, digital / physical controls, etc. After that, the real work begins. You need to get to a complete working prototype. The other thing I like to say is just because someone else has made it, or something similar, doesn't mean I know how to make it. It just means it's technically feasible. If you start looking at the parts of the toaster, you need to electrical engineering, mechanical engineering, material science, embedded software engineering, probably some industrial design and user experience design if you get that far. Even user research if you want to better understand the user and market. Once you get to a first iteration, and typically before, you need to engage UL and FCC, usually through third parties to start testing for certifications and engineering refinement. You also need to start engaging contract manufacturers to understand how to work within limitations of their capabilities and your design. A toaster may seem simple, but I assure it is not. Then couple all of this with legal considerations as mentioned in other comments and whether or not it's even a practical business model. This is quite a large endeavor. But if you are going to do anything, start small.
  • Cacti 3y ago
    no, a toaster is actually pretty simple lol. the issue is that production at scale for millions of customers, for practically anything at all, is not simple. all of the things you point to are true, but they are true of many other goods and products. also, you are assuming they need or care about profit.
    • anmorgan 3y ago
      Let me rephrase that. A toaster is functionally simple, but designing, engineering, manufacturing, and creating a business selling toasters is not. Also I'm making the assumption it is for profit since they started off with "I'm wanting to start a business"
• iancmceachern 3y ago
  I do this for a living. Setting up a small operation and doing the physical actions of designing, manufacturing and selling the toasters is the easy, fun and obvious part. I figure what your looking for, advice wise, is what's not obvious. A few things you'll need: -Product liability insurance, this isn't isn't easy or inexpensive to get. You need to have a lot of the below in place to get it. - UL certification (or equivalent) this can be between $10-60k in total, you need this for anything that plugs into AC mains, anything that has a heater, a safety function, etc. - FCC EMC/EMI testing, you need this if you do any intentional transmitting, have anything with digital electronics, etc. This is also pretty expensive. Then you need to iterate the design until you meet the above. I'm sure I'm missing some things
  • c_o_n_v_e_x 3y ago
    >I'm sure I'm missing some things Manufacturing tooling and test jigs A quality management system Support and RMA systems PLM software although you could probably get away with excel for a while > UL certification / FCC A lot of other certs if you want to sell into overseas markets... Luckily the US market is pretty big
  • jongjong 3y ago
    Everything is regulated these days and it usually costs a fortune and helps nobody except incumbents. Makes everything feel rigged and makes me not want to participate in the economy. I wish we could go back to a time when everyone takes their own risks and has to do their own research. Manufacturers could optionally pay some standards company to add some safety label to it to help boost customer confidence but it should not be compulsory. We're all going to die eventually and this obsession with safety is unhealthy and probably kills more people than it protects (e.g. due to the mental distress they cause and false peace of mind which dumbs down consumers and makes them feel like they don't need to do their own research... Not to mention the social harms caused by the passive 'trust the experts' mindset).
    • iancmceachern 3y ago
      I dont know. They killed hundreds building the Brooklyn Bridge, the hoover dam. So many horror stories of things like that xray shield sizer or lawn darts, or laundry mangles, etc. That world wasn't better for anyone but the robber barrons.
• jancsika 3y ago
  Two alternatives: 1. Design a machine that uses air streams to eventually dehydrate the outer faces of the bread, then shoots puffs of pre-fabbed soot/butter mix on the result. Bonus: market for add-on soot/butter packs. 2. Design a machine that is by default always on fire, which will temporarily reduce the heat to a glowing red when you hit a button to make toast. That way failures merely return the device back to its original burning state (albeit with a temporary burnt toast smell).
• neonlights84 3y ago
  Given all of the regulatory obstacles and logistical headaches surrounding manufactured products these days, I personally feel that mechanical/electrical entrepreneurship is a path to ruin. Since you're in software already, would it not make more sense to create a strictly-digital product? Keep your day job, work at your own pace on software products (ideally with a partner), and see whether the market actually wants what you're selling.
  • cbracketdash 3y ago
    Enter Elon Musk with Tesla, SpaceX, Starlink, & Neuralink... he seems to have it figured out
    • tarikjn 3y ago
      And the only thing that seems to be ruining him is the pure software play (Twitter)
      • neonlights84 3y ago
        When you change a mostly-working product, failure is probable. Especially when you attempt to monetize and politicize in a space that is diametrically against those goals.
    • stephen_g 3y ago
      Doesn't only one of those companies actually make any profit so far? And even then, its stock price still regarded as likely over-valued given the P/E ratios of any of its peers?
    • deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    • neonlights84 3y ago
      For every success story, there are 9+ failures.
    • throwawayffffas 3y ago
• Tempest1981 3y ago
  If you do, please film and document everything -- I would enjoy watching a Netflix documentary on your journey.
• nl 3y ago
  Are the dynamics of the toaster market more like coffee machines (where a high-end play absolutely can work) or like microwaves (where there seems to be limited evidence that it would).
• vidarh 3y ago
  Try to make one. Somewhere you won't set fire to. Fire risk would be my biggest fear with going for a toaster. Make sure you comply with safety regulations and get liability insurance... Don't listen if people say it's too hard. They may well be right, or not, but they don't know whether you're the right person to figure out a new angle or not and it's easier to try something new before you learn all the ways it can go wrong. Learn those after you've made a couple of (cheap prototype) attempts Don't read up too much on the how before you try. You want to learn how the competition works, but sometimes interesting realisations come from trying to figure it out yourself first without anything maki g you reject your apporoach out of hand. But it will be harder than you think. Just make sure you don't underestimate the marketing. Making a good product is less than half the job - especially if you're going to compete in a space where you're unlikely to be able to compete on price, quality isn't enough - you also need a convincing story about the quality. I think in this case, a story about why you've made surprising realisations about a modern take of a return to something sturdy, reliable and simple might be powerful. "I just wanted...(but modern products ...)" is powerful. Your product might or might not actually be simpler, but if you're going for people nostalgic for US manufacturing (which is larger than ever before, just employing fewer relative to output), then selling the idea that something has been lost with modern devices allows for both pushing price expectations and getting customers to forgive eccentricities that otherwise might be considered issues as long as the story justifies it.
• Stratoscope 3y ago
  Historical background: http://www.toastermuseum.com/ http://www.toastermuseum.com/
• carabiner 3y ago
  I just know every kickstarter involving consumer electronics takes 3-5x more time and money than they had anticipated. Coffee makers come to mind. So be ready for tons of costly iteration and surprises. Maybe do it for a hobby and if you have zero interest in turning a profit.
• mieses 3y ago
  You could move to Argentina. If Milei survives you might be able to start a business there. edit: or approach this as DIY kit where you are not selling the toaster but the components as separate items and a set of instructions. less regulations and better repairability.
• MostlyStable 3y ago
  If you make one like the Sunbeam Automatic Beyond Belief toaster, and you can keep the price <$150, you've got at least one customer. -edit- After thinking about this a little more, I could go higher than that price point. But higher than that and I'd want any non BIFL parts to be user serviceable/replaceable.
  • nothercastle 3y ago
    200 seems fair
  • deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
• devwastaken 3y ago
  Regardless of how good the product is it will be remade 10x cheaper and sold on Amazon and Alibaba by manufacturing in China. They don't play fair, they don't need the certs or product requirements you do. They are allowed to sell defective by design products and there are no consequences. Domestic producers are liable for everything. There is a reason domestic products failed. Any kind of rekindling is soon extinguished when you saturate customers willing to pay top dollar.
• akg_67 3y ago
  > as a software engineer with 0 experience building physical things, should I try building this? It is almost impossible to have a fully "US made" toaster. I expect any toaster will have quite a few "overseas made" components. At best, you might make "Assembled in US" toasters. You already received enough info on potential challenges in manufacturing toasters. Instead, a good alternative solution might be to focus on making add-ons for toasters built by others. What are the concerns toaster users have? Identify those and see how you can solve some of those using software and hardware. For example, a few concerns might be around making a perfect toast or safety: how not to over-burn toasts, how to turn off toaster when smoke started to come out, etc. Solve a problem that toaster users might have.
  • farhanhubble 3y ago
    This is pretty good advice. Build an accessory: - Sensors / Alarms: a la phone accessories - Cleaning: ??? - Coolness factor: Jibbitz for Crocs I recently bought a USB cable with a tiny power display on one end and it is the most useful and cool thing I have owned in a while.
• nektro 3y ago
  obligatory: http://www.thetoasterproject.org http://www.thetoasterproject.org
• analog31 3y ago
  Hi. I'm a software engineer, and I'm here to burn your house down. ;-) You'll need traditional engineers (mechanical design and electrical), and people who actually know manufacturing operations from sourcing to shipping. Perhaps a way into this kind of business is to do it in reverse: Lend your software skills to a manufacturing business and soak up as much as you can about how it works.
• moron4hire 3y ago
  Just call your company something like "Teenage Engineering" and you can then charge an arm and a leg for basic product designs running bad software in a nice, clean, totally-not-ripped-off-from-Braun case.
• webworker 3y ago
  tbh I'd buy your toaster if you made it
• lvturner 3y ago
  Would selling in kit form change liabilities significantly?
• tarikjn 3y ago
  I am a Software Engineer like you. I got started in making physical products in 2017 first with 3d printing, and today I do design for manufacturing. This might surprise some here, but if you can do 100% of the design and get good at it, it's possible to bootstrap a hardware company, even as a solo founder. I know it because I've done it. However I intentionally started with physical products with no electronics in them. I also tried manufacturing in the USA initially but quickly realized it to be uneconomical and too slow, especially for bootstrapped consumer products. My advice: 1. make a breadboard prototype @ home & design the product on your computer 2. have prototype parts made in China until you are satisfied with the final assembly 3. once you have pre-order volume, have the molds & dies made in China, import the tooling in the USA and setup your own shop. The other thing is getting good at Industrial design takes a few years, it's not necessarily intuitive -- you have to understand the processes that you are designing for and get good at making drawings and hiring shops. It won't happen in a year unless you just focus on one part/process, so I would team up with someone who has that experience. Feel free to contact me, info on my profile, happy to chat & help out.
  • medler 3y ago
    > get good at making drawings and hiring shops What is “hiring shops?”
    • tarikjn 3y ago
      Machining & Prototyping shops or "on-demand manufacturers". That involves choosing a region, evaluating the options/making a list, contacting a few and having a NNN ready for them to sign, getting 3-4 quotes for every parts in different MOQs, managing information on a need-to-know basis (to have some level protection beyond your NNN), managing these relationships etc. There is a lot more as the processes move to die/mold making as you go up in quantities and these have their own design requirements & ownership agreements.
• qiqitori 3y ago
  Maybe off-topic, but having recently repaired a cheap-ass toaster, maybe some insights: When you get a cheap toaster, they will probably have a design flaw: when the toaster pops up, there will be arcing. This means that the toaster will only last a few years. My repair was in this section. The heat eventually desoldered the mains pad on the PCB. You can maybe repair it once and get another year out of it, after that the PCB will be very charred and brittle. The fact that the PCB gets toasted a little bit every time probably isn't great for your health either, so I think I wouldn't recommend repairing toasters with this flaw, unless you have some clever plan to get around this problem. My new toaster is a name-brand one. And I don't see any light when it pops up, so maybe it's fine. I've also seen other name-brand toasters that were only replaced because they got filthy -- due to improper maintenance I must add :p My toaster was mostly made of metal that was bent into the shape of a toaster, plus plastic on the outside. To disassemble it, you have to use pliers to bend some interlocking metal bits into a different shape. That should be pretty cheap to manufacture! The pop-op logic was very simple, not even sure if it used a chip or not. If it did, probably nothing digital, maybe just a 555. Single-sided cheap circuit board. I want the following functions: stop button, extra long button, short button, single slot operation. Most people are probably comfortable with a toaster that just lets you adjust the duration. But if you add sensors that can reliably(!) detect how much browner your toast or bread has become compared to when it was inserted, go for it. If that sensor goes haywire after two years, then don't bother IMO. If you can add odor or smoke sensors that react when the toast is burnt, that might be nice too. (Course they might go off when you run the toaster for the first time to burn off the lubricant(?), so that may add some complexity)
• farhanhubble 3y ago
  I'd hop on if it was kitchen storage. Kitchens are getting smaller, the appliance list is getting longer but the only storage you get is a few drawers and a stupid cabinet.
• farhanhubble 3y ago
  There's always a market for a toaster that looks like a printer with infrared laser head for toasting and costs 100 dollars. Check out Rotimatic:https://rotimatic.com/ https://rotimatic.com/ I don't own one but it seems to be on the wishlist of every Indian living abroad.
  • nothercastle 3y ago
    That sounds amazing too bad it works poorly
• colechristensen 3y ago
  > as a software engineer with 0 experience building physical things, should I try building this? No. You’ll feel really bad when your homebrew toaster burns down somebody’s house and kills their kids. There are very many fields you’d need expertise in to do this at all and you don’t seem to have much of an idea of what you don’t know. Getting hardware products off the ground is hard and requires tons of time and money. After all of that you’d have a really tough time selling anybody on the idea of buying your toaster which would have to be much more expensive than you imagine. You would have to start on something way simpler.
• tailrecursion 3y ago
  You appear to have your heart set on toasters, and that's fine. A coffee roaster for the prosumer, however, strikes me as a more interesting product to make. I think there's still an opportunity to make a better or at least different product, and the area has been heating up recently. It's a lot like a toaster, if you think about it. And there's more opportunity for software and hardware integration ("roast profiling"). I also have a question: if a product is sold as a kit where the buyer performs the "final assembly", does that alleviate any of the burden with UL testing, FCC, or product liability?
• pompino 3y ago
  Okay, I see a lot of people discouraging you, so I'll try to be positive. I say go for it! However, your motivations don't seem very clear to me. What exactly are you trying to achieve with this venture?
• g-b-r 3y ago
  https://www.danielsen.com/jokes/objecttoaster.txt https://www.danielsen.com/jokes/objecttoaster.txt
• schainks 3y ago
  I love this idea and the competition is fierce from Chinese companies. Check out Robam’s combi ovens, like this one: https://robamliving.com/collections/steam-oven/products/robam-ct763 https://robamliving.com/collections/steam-oven/products/roba... This thing can toast, steam, bake, and air fry. It is objectively good at all of those functions, and it is used every day. The only thing it doesn’t have is the ability to add custom programs, but most of the built in functions can be used for recipes other than what they suggest. That being said, if I could get the same thing at the same price point, made in USA, I would. I also would like a properly engineered waffle iron that is made in the USA. The whole waffle iron market today is dogshit compared to the waffle Iron I got my mom in the 90s. It still works, it is easy to use and clean. Somehow a similar design is no longer available on the open market and the options are all variations on trash.
  • imp0cat 3y ago
    How reliable are these things? Seems like it packs a lot heat into quite a small package.
    • schainks 3y ago
      We use ours at least 2x/day, and we are about 6 months in. It gets rid of heat well and heats up quick. My biggest gripe is I can't turn down the volume of the beeps it makes.
• ohyes 3y ago
  Physical objects are literally the worst thing to sell. As a fellow software developer I urge you to stay the hell away from hardware. So many things that can go wrong with a physical device that you can do nothing about. Also, it’s expensive as hell getting the proper certification for whatever you’re making, even if it works well.
• atoav 3y ago
  As someone who builds and designs hardware for music as a hobby since a decade (but to a somewhat industrial standard): Unless you have history in hardware or someone with a lot of experience in it, I'd advice against it, if your plan is to earn a living. If your plan is to learn something, go on. Hardware is, well, hard. You will figure out why things cost the amount they do, and you will wonder why, till you find all the tricks manufacturers pull off – with the most important one being economies of scale. There will be many prototypes, and sometimes you will end with something that is extremely cool, but entirely to expensive for what it does. Sometimes things will fail for unknown reasons. There are tons of regulations your device will need to respect (and you need to know them). Why don't you start building the toaster in your sparetime and figure out whether that object is a thing that could sit on the right spot in the market with some automation? If the answer is that you lack the hardware skill, I would caution against moving forward unless you got the market side all figured out and know your product would work financially. Then this would be about finding a person that fills your gaps.
• ForestCritter 3y ago
  If it makes you feel warm and crunchy...
• conductr 3y ago
  A lot of great comments already but I'll add my opinion on search volume for 'toasters made in usa'. My feel is that a bulk of it is people looking for old fashioned toasters like showcased in this link; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OfxlSG6q5Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OfxlSG6q5Y
  • Dig1t 3y ago
    I love this channel! Yeah, I wish I could just buy a new one of these toasters. That’s basically exactly what I’d like to build. I would personally pay a good premium for one, and I think there is probably a decent number of people who would as well. It would be a niche product, but still maybe worth pursuing?
• xivzgrev 3y ago
  two pieces of advice: First, you don’t need anyone’s permission here. If you want to build American made toasters, go do it! Second, before you dive into this I’d recommend a little more due diligence. Around requirements sure (there was a good post in comments on different certs youd need). But more around validating demand: why doesn’t this exist already? As someone mentioned, are there enough consumers that would pay a premium for American made appliance? Or like the article you linked mentioned: no one is going to buy a $300 toaster. So how would you get the costs down?
  • qup 3y ago
    > First, you don’t need anyone’s permission here. If you want to build American made toasters, go do it! I similarly say: op, YOU are the expert. Do not defer this decision to anyone else. Do not weigh the opinions of unknown commenters equally with your own.
• blasdel 3y ago
  Read the book first, in 2010 a UK man built one from scratch as best he could http://www.thetoasterproject.org/page2.htm http://www.thetoasterproject.org/page2.htm https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1568989970/ https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1568989970/
• nimish 3y ago
  The absolute best toasting toaster I've ever used is basically a couple of resistors in a sheet metal case with a spring timer: Dualit Classic. It's comically overpriced but it does one thing and does it well.
  • Symbiote 3y ago
    It is also made in the UK, so it's essentially exactly what the poster wants. Maybe an easier business would be marketing European-made devices to Americans. Is "Made in the UK/Germany/France/Italy/EU" etc valuable to Americans?
• nox101 3y ago
  I'm curious what is a good quality toaster in your mind? Also, why does it need to be "made in the USA"? There seems to be lots of expensive "high-end" toasters. Is your only setting point "made in the USA"? Does the population of people who care about "made in the USA" overlap with people who are likely to pay for this toaster vs the $19 toaster from target? https://www.target.com/p/kitchensmith-by-bella-4-slice-toaster/-/A-88264028 https://www.target.com/p/kitchensmith-by-bella-4-slice-toast...
• Incipient 3y ago
  A fairly obvious note, and aside from the technical discussions, 90% of your challenge will be marketing. You need to build a brand that exudes quality and value. I have zero idea about marketing and branding, but it's damn hard/expensive.
  • bufferoverflow 3y ago
    Just add AI.
• aspectmin 3y ago
  A few thoughts. 1 - do it. Absolutely do it. 2 - I love being around first time entrepreneurs- they don’t know about the bumps ahead in the journey so they just plough through. This is a great thing. Once you’ve ploughed through, you learn about all of this and it either causes you to be too afraid to do another, or to try to warn everyone else off by describing how impossible it is (doesn’t work and doesn’t help), or you get the bug and keep building more and more. 3) You’ve identified what seems like an awesome opportunity. Go chase it. Don’t spend too much time talking. Endless talk is the death of entrepreneurial endeavors. Do more talk less. Sounds like a super fun opportunity during which you’ll learn so much along the way. 4) Two entrepreneur credos: A) when you see an opportunity the door is already closing. Get moving. Did I mention more talk less do? B) the universe is interesting. The moment you start on an endeavor, the people you need to be successful just come out of the woodwork. It’s like you become attuned to the universe. Just gotta pay attention. Sorry - sounds preachy, but I’ve found it to be true over and over again. It’s like they find you through the cosmos. Don’t listen to the naysayers. Those who say it can’t be done should stand aside for those who are doing it. Welcome to the entrepreneurial journey. Pretty much the most fun you can have in business. All the best.
• netcan 3y ago
  So... It sounds that you're up for a meander. Do it. I suspect that both the public interest in domestically manufactured toasters and your interest are related. There's something basic about a toaster. The basic consumer electronic appliances. Also... just an idea... How about a Non-electric toaster? Lighter gas. Ethanol. Just an idea.
• OhNoNotAgain_99 3y ago
  [dead]
• bythreads 3y ago
  all your skills are moot if you don't know how to sell. Don't make the common mistake of "iterating in the basement" and when you need to goto market you flop around, spend too much time on a website and kinda expect things to "just happen". I would not start ANYTHING before you figure out if you like this part of it, otherwise its just a "expensive hobby". To figure this out, find something on Alibaba that costs a nickel that you think has some value, buy 10.000 units of it - figure out the shipping and import rigamarole and try selling it however you think works best. if you like that experience and find it fun, and can "hack" it - return to your toaster.
  • markdown 3y ago
    10,000.
• whilenot-dev 3y ago
  Just here to give a ref to The Toaster Project[0] and its accompanied TED talk[1] from Designer Thomas Thwaites[2]. [0]: http://www.thetoasterproject.org/ http://www.thetoasterproject.org/ [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ODzO7Lz_pw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ODzO7Lz_pw [2]: https://www.thomasthwaites.com/ https://www.thomasthwaites.com/
• quickthrower2 3y ago
  All I can say is my biggest bugbear with toaster is the crumbs just all fall out despite having a way to catch/release them. So that is a good problem to solve. Also make the slots wider. For things like Turkish bread.
• zabzonk 3y ago
  i'm sure this has been posted in thread before (if so i didn't see it) but here is a review of an insane toaster presented by the lovely sarah: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJ-KZzVUV7U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJ-KZzVUV7U
• vardump 3y ago
  I'd love to buy a hand mixer that doesn't have plastic gearing, which is approximately 100% of the market. Those just keep breaking. I'd buy one with durable metal parts even if it costs 2-3x normal price level.
• ChrisMarshallNY 3y ago
  As long as you keep it simple. Here’s an old joke on the topic: http://www.solipsys.co.uk/new/TheParableOfTheToaster.html http://www.solipsys.co.uk/new/TheParableOfTheToaster.html
• poisonborz 3y ago
  I don't really get these "Made in <our country>" slogans. For livestock/plants/food/cuisine, or well known existing domestic brands, sure. But new businesses just using nationalism as a selling point is strange. That foreign land may have better standards for safety/manufacturing as your own. Fair profit lands with your local government regardless where stuff came from. Materials travelling around the world: what ensures your local craftsman will not use foreign materials or tools. A world where most production is localised is more environment damaging than the distributed economy we have now.
  • imp0cat 3y ago
    > That foreign land may have better standards for safety/manufacturing as your own. That is very hard to believe (at least if you live in Europe or US).
• sh4wthing 3y ago
  Love it, I've considered doing toasters. I run a space startup in Australia making hardware for satellites. Would love to chat. I've been a long time lurker but made an account for this ha ha.
  • Dig1t 3y ago
    I’d love to chat, I just sent you an email. :)
• squokko 3y ago
  making the toaster is the easy part; getting anyone to buy the toaster is the hard part. The demand is gatekept by companies like Google and Amazon and they will extract almost all of your profit
• aqwsde 3y ago
  Let me put this into perspective as an outsider: ``` I have been looking at starting a business and am a Dentist with lots of experience. I also love learning about masonry and construction, but have never actually tried building anything. Lately, I have been interested in buying things that are made locally. One construction item that I would like to invest in is a brick house; I did a lot of searching online, and this seems to be something that has a decent amount of demand. There does seem to be a market opportunity for high-quality houses made locally. My question is: as a dentist with zero experience building physical things, should I try building brick houses? I have plenty of space to set up a small operation and a little capital to get started. What are the pitfalls? Has anyone with a dental background moved into constructing physical items like this? ``` Don't expect your former job knowledge to be of much use for this endeavor. This does not mean "Don't do it!" but rather "Be aware of the scope!". Good luck!
• josefresco 3y ago
  Fellow hacker here who invented a physical product I brought to market: No. I sold it first chance I got because no software engineer wants to be in “manufacturing hell”.
• joelanman 3y ago
  A related old art project: Making a toaster from scratch by Thomas Thwaites https://www.dezeen.com/2009/06/27/the-toaster-project-by-thomas-thwaites/ https://www.dezeen.com/2009/06/27/the-toaster-project-by-tho...
• welzel 3y ago
  I like to encourage you to go on this adventure to learn why a toaster made in USA could be the single most horrifying idea a founder can have. I would like to encourage you to become a founder and milk every insight out of this idea you can get. Don´t walk away now, go all in and learn in order to protect you from sinking years of your life into a bad idea (Spoiler: your next idea might be even worse) 1. research the cost of producing a production-ready physical product. You need millions of up-front investment and a couple of years of funding. 2. research how a toaster is sold. Spoiler: you need attention and access to a target audience. What would be your customer acquisition cost to sell 100K units? 3. what is the customer lifetime value of a person who bought your toaster? Spoiler: your competition might be a 10 USD made-in-china piece of crap, so people a willing to spend 25 USD on something that is not dead-on-arrival. How much do you need to charge for a made-in-USA toaster? 99 USD? 299 USD? 4. how much do you need to spend on branding and marketing to get the value of "made-in-USA" attached to the toaster? 10M? 50M? 5. how will your life look like, when you manage to pull this off to sell 10K toasters? My assumption: it will be a constant nightmare/living hell, as you now have a mountain of dept, high running costs and many people asking you to sell the next 100k toasters...
• prepend 3y ago
  I would like to buy a good toaster. I’d easily pay $100, maybe more. It seems all the toaster models are pretty crappy. They’re hard to clean. It’s hard to guess how to set things to toast properly. But it’s acceptable. I don’t like using my toaster, but I do. I think there’s some small market in improving things that everyone uses because they must, but makes people angry to use (cable, phone service, air travel, toasters, etc).
  • throwawayffffas 3y ago
    Get an electric grill, or a panini press. They cost about 100 bucks, if they have removable plates they are easy to clean, it takes like a minute to make toast, and you can make more things than just toast.
• SMAAART 3y ago
  You could bring this https://www.theverge.com/22801890/sunbeam-radiant-control-toaster-t20-t35-vista https://www.theverge.com/22801890/sunbeam-radiant-control-to... back to market.
  • wscott 3y ago
    I was confused by the comments here. Surely someone is going to post the Technology Connections video on the toaster. I see you did it indirectly. That video is great.
• RecycledEle 3y ago
  Toasters cook food so be aware of the many regulations in that area.
• fkyoureadthedoc 3y ago
  Since toasting is a non starter, I've been wanting an heirloom quality artisan salad spinner, maybe you can look into that. Everything out there is plastic junk that breaks too fast. Where are all the stainless spinners???
• rmbyrro 3y ago
  Although I feel sad for saying this, what I think is sane is: don't compete with the Chinese. Unless you can build an audience of extremely loyal fans. In that case, I'd suggest to start pitching your vision for a US-made toaster and sell a refundable pre-purchase (like 10% of the toaster). If you can't attract a large enough fan base, you won't be successful, I'm afraid.
• diydsp 3y ago
  Absolutely do not use your own capital for this. Make a compelling presentation and shop it out to investors. Use a mixture of logic, financial figures, and storytelling. Do not start from scratch, but get the most experienced people for your team. Remember: manufacturing is the lowest part of the SMILE curve. That's why things are not made in the USA.
• chris-orgmenta 3y ago
  I think it might be worth starting with pure mechanical simple goods, and working from there? E.g. Specialised bbq tongs might be an easier entry point, allow you to build up the machinery, drills, laser cutters, mould injection equipment, etc. Putting the electronics aspect aside for now will mean you can get things to market now, rather than that extra level of design, QC, legislation etc. 0-to-toaster is a big jump, and we wouldn't attempt a monolithic deliverable like that in software-dev...
• Dowwie 3y ago
  First thing that came to mind was an ImpulseLabs Toaster, powered by their high-output battery. Maybe you should reach out to the leadership and introduce yourself? https://www.impulselabs.com/faqs https://www.impulselabs.com/faqs
• evanjrowley 3y ago
  Try doing a Kickstarter. Over the years, I've spent way more money than I should have on Kickstarter projects that are highly specific and non-refundable. Both of these characteristics will likely be important to leverage as you are starting out this venture. Kickstarter targeted advertising through Facebook and Instagram seem to be very good at getting your product in front of people willing to buy it - even if it's an expensive American-made toaster. Once you have a prototype, you may want to consider getting a review by Technology Connections. He's done multiple on toaster design novelty: https://youtu.be/zLFG068HtgM?si=LkiWH2n8mtZJ6JBK https://youtu.be/zLFG068HtgM?si=LkiWH2n8mtZJ6JBK https://youtu.be/1OfxlSG6q5Y?si=eOFYQRVUNq-zqFaS https://youtu.be/1OfxlSG6q5Y?si=eOFYQRVUNq-zqFaS https://youtu.be/2vcdbtAca0Y?si=iKY-Y2CjhoABQeWd https://youtu.be/2vcdbtAca0Y?si=iKY-Y2CjhoABQeWd https://youtu.be/bLk1cjZ4ll0?si=lZt3zngxOmeHdN22 https://youtu.be/bLk1cjZ4ll0?si=lZt3zngxOmeHdN22
• ElevenLathe 3y ago
  I don't think it's a good idea, for many reasons which are better-defined elsewhere in this discussion. That said, if you do decide to do this, it would IMO be foolish not to contact your congressional delegation (probably state legislators too) and try to get something. On-shoring manufacturing is politically very en vogue in DC right now, and I wouldn't be surprised if you could get some kind of grant, tax credits, liability waiver, guaranteed government orders, or something else to "entice" you to do this in your state (maybe even shop around among states/municipalities and see if you can get them to outbid each other). This isn't exactly pro-social behavior, but it will probably work, where "work" means you will be able to extract something, not that you will be able to turn your toaster business into a going concern.
• wvh 3y ago
  I've been trying to buy a toaster for the last two months. People seem to either get the cheapest models, or some get "the Smeg" or another expensive name brand that has the same designer product in a zillion colours. There are a few mid-price models (like Bosch) that still seem to be manufactured "locally", but for some reason they are hard to find at the moment. You can't compete with the stream of cheap crap from China (I'm not implying that all of those are bad; just brand labels slapped on random products). The question is if you can become "the Smeg" and have people pay extra for your name. That sort of brand recognition will take a lot of time and effort, and need to be aimed at a certain kind of customer that has both money and cares beyond the appliance's function.
• happytiger 3y ago
  I think it’s a great idea. I would do the opposite of what most of the comments on here do and build the speed queen of toasters.
• fuzzfactor 3y ago
  Provided that blueprints are already finalized, and certain distribution eagerly awaits to consume the amount of product you intend to manufacture at the rate you intend to produce, it all boils down to raw materials and labor in an American fabrication/assembly facility. When you do the math focused on the manufacturing task alone, you can come up with a baseline estimate on what it might cost to make each item and how that compares to what it will sell for, wholesale of course since this is just manufacturing. This would be your "toaster baseline". Now you may plan to produce an artisan product but toasters themselves are not only a commodity but the market has been saturated for quite some time. You can't expect to compete with the mainstream on price or volume, but that's OK you're not going to be able to make that many to begin with. Never mind how few you make, if you make money on every one, and through some excellent good fortune you can sell all you make, you will be profitable. Whether that's enough profit in comparison to other oportunities, well you have your baseline to work from. You might be able to find an alternative product (most likely addressing a completely different market), which can be produced at similar unit expenditures in similar facilities, but sell for a better price into its market in such a way as to be a much better choice. Maybe better off with something that's not a commodity, maybe so, you have to do the math. If you're expecting the manufacturing phase alone to be a core value-adding operation.
• anonu 3y ago
  I think "Made in the USA" has tremendous cachet. However, I do not think people will pay up for it unless there is something unique being offered.
• geemee 3y ago
  There is an ace ted talk about a guy making a toaster from scratch... only ~11 mins.. recommended https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ODzO7Lz_pw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ODzO7Lz_pw
• wiskinator 3y ago
  Ask yourself why you want something that is made in the US. I have long had the same bias, and I am trying to understand it myself. Is it perceived quality of the final object? Do you feel that the environmental impact of shipping is worth overcoming? Do you want to keep money in local communities? Do you just think Americans make things right? What’s your goal here. Also read about the too numerous to count HW kickstarter projects that 10x their funding goal and then still never deliver. Also go read everything [Bunnie Huang](https://www.bunniestudios.com/ https://www.bunniestudios.com/) has written.
• gcheong 3y ago
  Find a way to bring back this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OfxlSG6q5Y&t=0s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OfxlSG6q5Y&t=0s
  • kuba-orlik 3y ago
    I came to the comments to post exactly that link :D