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Gas pumps freeze at Calgary gas stations [video]
- nbarg 3y ago[flagged]
- MadnessASAP 3y agoUnfortunately the current premiere of Alberta is going to use this to justify going even more "all-in" on oil.
- declan_roberts 3y agoDang I hope that doesn’t make the arctic air colder.
- selimthegrim 3y agoIf only dang had the time away from moderating this forum to do that
- gmerc 3y agoExactly. Total energy in the atmosphere should worry everyone. Instead they think the effects are purely a net heat gain.
- CoastalCoder 3y ago> Instead they think the effects are purely a net heat gain. Whom do you mean by "they"?
- CoastalCoder 3y ago> If you are not terrified, you are not paying attention. Not everyone is terrified by calamity or existential threat.
- kspacewalk2 3y agoIt is certainly a calamity. The extent to which the threat is existential is very much open to debate, however. While doing nothing and letting it happen is a stupid and likely more costly choice in the long run, the idea of it being "existential" sounds like hyperbole to me. I suspect we'll adapt with moderate difficulty.
- CoastalCoder 3y ago> the idea of it being "existential" sounds like hyperbole to me I was speaking more generally about people's emotional responses to threats they perceive as calamitous or existential. I've noticed that as I get older, the emotional highs and lows are less pronounced than when I was younger. Probably some combination of life experience, growing historical perspective, and an acceptance everyone's mortality.
- Etheryte 3y agoThis is not really a useful nor practical perspective in my opinion. You can be fully aware of it, but still live your life without unnecessary stress. Similarly, one day you will inevitably, invariably die. That doesn't mean you should live the rest of your life in fear.
- hammyhavoc 3y agoFor anyone wanting further rabbit holes of intrigue, may I be so bold to suggest 'terror management theory'?
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- apwell23 3y agopay attention and do what exactly. Billions of people across the globe are just entering high energy consumption lifestyle across in next few decades.
- phmqk76 3y agoPay attention and stop emitting carbon. This is an opportunity to push a paradigm shift of accessible and clean energy, able to be produced just about anywhere, instead of having to go to great lengths to extract it and combust it. I welcome the developing world’s increasing appetite for electricity, let’s get it done in a way that enhances human life, instead of forcing mass migrations and, more likely, death sentences to people who are unfortunate enough to live in countries that will one day be inhospitable to people.
- apwell23 3y ago> Pay attention and stop emitting carbon. you had the opportunity to not emit carbon by not writing this comment. Why are you asking everyone else to do something you cant do yourself.
- elzbardico 3y agoFace the facts, if renewables were accessible, able to be produced everywhere and cheap as Big Green, Big Finance and Big Government says, the market would have already chosen it. But the reality is that renewables suck, and will completely obliterate the economy of every country pushing it blindly as it is already doing with Germany and the UK. Meanwhile this will do nothing to reduce the use of renewables, because while the G-7 is committing economic suicide, it is only making oil cheaper for the rest of the world that is eager to develop themselves. You can have as much bad science and marketing speak saying otherwise, but the energy prices tell the truth: Solar and Wind are fucking expensive. And we are justing playing with it because 40 years ago, we had people like you along with the Big Oil doing as much as they could to arrest the development of Nuclear Energy.
- mschuster91 3y ago> pay attention and do what exactly. Pressure politicians to at least - improve local climate. Cities experience more extreme temperatures, especially in summer, than rural areas do because of many cities lacking tree shade, especially (as usual...) in poor neighborhoods [1]. How this can be done? Get rid of parking strips alongside streets, plant trees there, and build out public transport such as buses, trams or subways to replace individual transportation. - help the local flora that does exist to become resilient - replace dying treets and bushes that can't cope with climate change with more resilient species, ban "mandatory mowing / watering / species of grass" clauses in HOAs (and enforce severe fines against anyone caught violating or pressuring HOA members to violate) - improve local emissions. Fossil cars still emit lots of NOx that are (among other effects) lung irritants [2], and all cars and trucks produce brake and tire dust that are both lung irritants and contribute to the microplastic problem. Again, the solution is to build out public transport, to ban entire classes of cars and to take care to provide housing that is near to employers to reduce the amount of miles traveled in the first place. - improve (or create!) "safe havens" for the community at large to mitigate the impact of climate change especially for the poorest and the elderly, like public "heat/cold rooms" for either winter or summer. Not everyone can afford installing or running AC systems or is allowed to install one in their first place, or the landlord doesn't care. - improve cities' water handling aka "sponge cities" to mitigate the effects of severe rain and snowfall events - basically, create local paths where water can pass through to become groundwater instead of overflowing storm drains and wastewater treatment plants All of this is basic stuff that will greatly improve the lives of residents in general and help become society at least able to adapt to climate change and its associated events, and in many cases does not require approval from higher-up authorities. Hell, a lot of it can even be done by (literal) grass-roots activists banding together. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jun/29/trees-america-cities-study-disparities https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jun/29/trees-am... [2] https://theicct.org/stack/vehicle-nox-emissions-the-basics/ https://theicct.org/stack/vehicle-nox-emissions-the-basics/ [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sponge_city https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sponge_city
- COGlory 3y agoBecause Calgary is cold? That's not remotely new. There was plenty of extreme weather before global warming, too. Edit: for those arguing otherwise: https://www.currentresults.com/Yearly-Weather/Canada/AB/Calgary/extreme-annual-calgary-low-temperature.php https://www.currentresults.com/Yearly-Weather/Canada/AB/Calg...
- aredox 3y agoBecause the Arctic sea ice melting means a more unstable polar vortex, which means very cold spells pushing very far south.
- criddell 3y agoCanada is one of the countries that could see a net benefit from global warming.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- josho 3y agoNot sure that’s true. It means droughts for the grain growing regions. It means extreme cold/warm cycles in the winter will kill off trees in the forests. It means more extreme cold days like this that puts stresses on their infrastructure (calgary also nearly had rolling blackouts last night).
- criddell 3y agoI don’t really know either. I’m just echoing what I read here: https://www.moodysanalytics.com/-/media/article/2019/economic-implications-of-climate-change.pdf https://www.moodysanalytics.com/-/media/article/2019/economi...
- josho 3y agoAs I read that report it seems to conclude that the rich nations will benefit from climate change. Which I suppose may explain why those same nations have largely done nothing to address carbon emissions.
- cgh 3y agoNot sure if you are familiar with this part of Canada, but it’s cold and the current temps aren’t close to the record lows. People are used to it.
- alkonaut 3y agoBus driver taps sign: Weather isn't climate. Occurrences of extreme weather isn't climate change. Long term trends in the frequency of extreme weather however, could be linked to climate change. But one dry or cold spell no matter how extreme isn't possible to attribute to climate change.
- aredox 3y agoThe melting of the Arctic sea ice is going to change the seasonal "typical" weather, though
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- aBioGuy 3y agoVehicular gas infrastructure is near 100 years of development and still has some edge cases. EV charging infrastructure is at about 10 years.
- ceejayoz 3y agoThe good news is we haven’t forgotten all the lessons learned, many of which will be applicable.
- osigurdson 3y agoIn cold climates, EVs should absolutely include a propane tank to generate passenger heat and bring the battery into its proper operating range. Generating high entropy heat with low entropy electricity from a battery offends my sensibilities.
- declan_roberts 3y agoAs someone that drives an EV in cold weather, a propane tank for heat would be a huge improvement.
- cwillu 3y agoAs long as you don't want to ever make use of underground parking.
- audunw 3y agoMost modern EVs have heat pumps. Not using heat pumps to generate heat - exploiting the larger than 100% efficiency you get in the process - offends my sensibilities. If we have propane, and want to use it for energy/heating, it’d be better to burn it at some large central efficient generator (perhaps supplying waste heat as district heating for nearby homes), and use the electricity to power heat pumps.
- bawolff 3y agoDon't heat pumps stop working around -25C? That is obviously not going to be effective in alberta. (Current temp -36C [not including windchill])
- lopkeny12ko 3y ago[flagged]
- gruez 3y agoIt's not an article. It's a video. Although to be fair you could be excused for thinking there was an article because local news sites almost always have "related videos" above the article that you tune it out.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- mmastrac 3y agoAs someone who lives in Calgary, a few random points: This is normal weather for us for a week or so every year. Some years we have longer snaps. Some years we have shorter snaps. When things get this cold, everything has a hard time functioning, including but not limited to infrastructure, people, vehicles and utilities. The electricity infrastructure in the province is poorly maintained and managed by the government and corporations that manage it. We have failed to invest in infrastructure that can handle both peak summer and winter loads. We received an emergency alert yesterday night describing how the grid was nearly at capacity. I wouldn't be surprised if we got another one today. The reason appears to be that both wind and gas generation are offline due to cold. Pool prices for electricity spiked to $1000/MWh (!). Electric vehicles would destroy the current grid because it's not even managed well enough to handle a barely electrified fleet of civilian vehicles. There's an argument that the EVs could act as a battery for the grid, but that would require significant technology investment that the province is not managed well enough to implement. There will still be arctic outflows even if the planet is warming up. Our winters will continue to suck despite the average global temps rising. Short story: the province is very cold, very badly managed, and there is not much anyone can do about it.
- voisin 3y agoPretty crazy that the gas generation goes offline in the cold when part of Danielle Smith’s rationale for a moratorium on renewables was “grid instability” requiring further study. Seems she panders to oil & gas, but the populace can’t be happy with the price of electricity!
- mmastrac 3y agoI don't think the population gets enough visibility into the price of electricity. Most of the population is on a fixed price plan and I don't understand the economics of it. I'm certain we'll hear about the "wind freezing" but nothing about why the gas plants were offline. Alberta is prime location for nuclear: remote, cold and environmentally stable. We could probably ween ourselves off gas plants in a few decades, build enough capacity for an EV-friendly grid and reduce emissions.
- bawolff 3y agoI'm confused by all this. I grew up in alberta (fort mcmurray which is north of calgary). I don't live there now. While obviously this is cold, it is not abnormally cold weather. Growing up we had weather on par with this or maybe a little colder at times. I dont remember gas pumps ever freezing. What gives?
- giantg2 3y agoMaybe the ethanol blend, especially if it has water in it?
- nightowl_games 3y agoProbably a mechanical failure with the pump
- giantg2 3y agoBased on the article and other comments, it sounds like it's actually freezing. What other mechanical failure would happen and the resolve itself as it got warmer?
- nightowl_games 3y agoI'm suggesting the pump is frozen and not the gasoline. I pump gas in -40C every year. This weather is normal.
- giantg2 3y agoIsn't the gasoline the only liquid in the pump? What else could be frozen?
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- cwillu 3y agoNothing unusual, same thing happens every year; some years it's just a day or two where it gets cold enough to be an issue (so that most people don't notice the issue with the pumps because they didn't need gas that day), some years it lasts a week or two.
- FredPret 3y agoI’m from a hot place and moved to Calgary a couple of years ago. I’ll never forget my first time driving in a cold snap like this. It was -35C and I forgot to plug in my gas powered car. It started the second time, but it drove so weirdly for half an hour. I think the various transmission fluids and lubricants must’ve been frozen or extra viscuous. But at least it worked! Would not want to be stuck in the mountains in an EV unless it had a propane tank or 800km range or something.
- BXLE_1-1-BitIs1 3y agoYep, even with a manual transmission in neutral you can feel the lubricant viscosity bringing up the clutch at -30C. My car's outside temperature display doesn't show temperature below -30 and it takes time for the radio to start working. Seat warmers are really appreciated as you don't need to wait for the engine to warm up enough to heat the interior. Block heaters run about 400W. It helps a lot to have a garage. When it's this cold, I also run a battery charger as living in a walkable neighborhood, I can go several days without using my car and the battery sags in the cold.
- maerF0x0 3y agoa charger like a trickle charger? Or do you mean a warmer (like diesels have those battery blankets) ?
- Klonoar 3y ago…did you drive it immediately after staring it? Barring any emergencies I always wait minimum 10 minutes in cold weather to let the fluids warm up and cycle through.
- jacquesm 3y agoI had a Honda Hybrid in Northern Ontario and it took a lot of planning to keep that car working during the coldest period of the year. Usually the dash would completely fail even if the engine would run and it took 1/2 hour or so for the car to properly warm up. I ended up keeping it indoors and only to roll it out just prior to a drive (and let it warm up outside to avoid CO2 poisoning).
- autoexec 3y agoIf you haven't already seen the video don't bother. There is no interesting visual of frozen gas pumps, just stock footage of gas pumps and people using ones that aren't frozen while a voice over says that some were freezing and that nothing could be done but to wait for them to unfreeze. The video adds nothing.
- andrewinardeer 3y agoI could hear the significant apathy in the gas station attendent's voice even though their comment was narrated by the presenter. That was nice.
- Panino 3y ago> just stock footage > The video adds nothing This seems to be the case more often than not. Who is the intended audience for these videos and what's the motivation? Usually they don't contain ads, and just suck bandwidth and take money to cobble together, so I don't see how anyone benefits.
- cwillu 3y agoFrozen gas pump is probably the most boring video possible, you squeeze the handle, and gas trickles out at a rate of a penny every couple seconds.
- pxeboot 3y agoIn some arctic locations, they keep the gas pumps fully enclosed and heated, with only the hoses accessible from the outside. You need to go in a little shed to swipe your card and select the grade. One example: https://www.go2moon.com/image/DaltonHwy/Dalton-S3.html https://www.go2moon.com/image/DaltonHwy/Dalton-S3.html
- jacquesm 3y agoThat's a clever solution!
- fleventynine 3y agoA reddit thread with anecdotes from EV owners during this cold snap: https://www.reddit.com/r/Calgary/comments/194yg8x/how_are_your_evs_doing_in_this_weather_genuinely/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Calgary/comments/194yg8x/how_are_yo... General consensus was that while some models lost ~40% of their range, the cars were more than adequate for getting around the city, even when parked on the street overnight.
- canucker2016 3y agofrom CBC, https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/ev-cold-northern-bc-1.7082896 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/ev-cold-nort...: ==== In 2023, Seattle-based firm Recurrent measured range loss in EVs at temperatures between –7 C and –1 C, and found 18 popular models had an average of 70 per cent of their range in freezing conditions, though there was a wide discrepancy depending on the vehicle. Starting with a full charge, Vejvoda's long-range 2020 Tesla Model 3 predicted he'd get to McBride with five to 10 per cent charge remaining. Instead, he said, the vehicle did better than expected and had about 25 per cent when he reached the charging point. He said the vehicle had about a 40- to 50-per-cent loss in efficiency. [stuff deleted] "That just goes to show that these cars have come a long way … but [this loss] would be the worst-case scenario," he said, adding he's only seen eight per cent loss during regular city use in –20 C weather. "The highway is not where an EV shines to begin with … and it's going to have more trouble because of the air flow under the battery being so cold." Rowell says it's important to note gas vehicles also lose efficiency in cold weather as frigid temperatures can affect fuel economy. ====
- NoPicklez 3y agoCould the "better than expected" aspect be partially because once the car is travelling there is heat generated within the bottom of the vehicle from both the engines and the battery use. Presumably that may warm up the area to a higher temperature.
- rkagerer 3y agoGasoline itself freezes at -75°C/-103°F. I gather the temperature in Calgary is around -30°C. So I presume it's the pump infrastructure that can't handle the cold, not the fuel itself freezing (which would also impact vehicles). I used to live in Ottawa where it got that cold at least once a year (I remember skiing in Tremblant once at -40°C) and their pumps still generally managed cope - at least before they started getting LCD screens.
- pi-e-sigma 3y agoGasoline can freeze well above -75°C/-103°F, it all depends on the actual composition and various additives. And even if it's not frozen it can be so sticky (viscous) that you can't use it anyway
- SoftTalker 3y agoOr it could have water in it. There's always some water in retail fuel. The pumps have filters to capture it, but if they freeze the fuel can't flow.
- jacquesm 3y agoThe water tends to pool at the bottom of the tank due to gravity. Source: former gas station owner. At -40 C the bigger issues are: pump lubrication, metal becoming brittle, shrinkage of parts made of different metals causing friction and wear (but this does tend to heat up the mechanism!), electronics malfunctioning. That's why we had very old pumps without any electronics at all and those functioned very well in deep winter, as long as we had power (for which we had a backup diesel generator). Not a single lost day of business in the four years that we owned that station. Far more modern stations nearby on highway 17 were doing much worse.
- cwillu 3y agoNo gas station in canada will have summer gas in the pumps in january, the switchover happens in september.
- Tiktaalik 3y agoWild stuff. We often read concern trolling about how BEVs will fail and struggle in winter climates but the reality is that ICE vehicles need a fair amount of special care in the winter as well, and the infrastructure is also fragile. This story here a remarkable example of that. Was chatting with my Dad about all this and he brought up his war stories of trying to get an ICE car to start in a Winnipeg winter. God help you if you didn't plug in the block heater.
- jacquesm 3y agoGod help if you did get your car running but ended up stranded by the roadside somewhere. Road travel in Canada in deep winter is a serious exercise in risk management, your life may well be on the line.
- milleramp 3y agoFor anyone wondering gasoline freezes around -40c or -40f, never knew this myself until now.