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Rabbit: LLM-First Mobile Phone
- ramoz 3y agoThe biggest competitor to Apple and google is ChatGPT. The future of manual human interactions is certainly limited. (It will definitely end up looking like movie Her). OpenAI is in best position to redefine the edge OS’s that get us there.
- ergocoder 3y agoI'll call it. This is vaporware. This is similar to Fast and Bolt. 2 reasons: - It will be better as a phone. People will not use it and the initial hype will die quickly. - It is seemingly useful but useless in practice because many things are impossible to do. The demo is already so fake. With the two above reasons, the momentum and funding will dry up quickly. Check back in a year.
- polishdude20 3y agoWhat's a "far field mic"? You mean a microphone? Like what all phones have?
- anentropic 3y agoHaven't watched the keynote yet, but this looks approx what I thought at beginning of last year Apple should have been building instead of Vision Pro
- mondobe 3y agoHaven't seen anyone mention just how bad the website design is here. The homepage ran at single-digit FPS on my (pretty powerful) laptop, and I noticed performance hits where there really shouldn't have been. Besides that, there are too many animations where a few sentences or pictures would do. Elsewhere, thick walls of text, sometimes barely indistinguishable in color from the background. The site seems to be an omen of the product itself: cool in concept, but touch-and-go in implementation.
- galenguyer 3y agoAlso, it made me rotate my phone into landscape view. I guess that's one way to not have to deal with responsive design
- geuis 3y agoI think you mean portrait mode. But yeah that immediately made me not care about whatever this is. If someone is too lazy to make their site responsive, that's fine. But when they go out of their way to make the site unusable, that's another thing entirely.
- phito 3y agoOn my phone, I get a big "Share" button right in front of the keynotes video player. It also prevents me from skipping around the video, no way I'm watching all of that. I tried to go into landscape to fix it, qnd I get a black screen asking me to go back to portait mode. I don't know how you can get such basic things so wrong.
- rfwhyte 3y agoWithout a complete accounting of this companies ties to the CCP, there's literally ZERO chance I'd ever use their man in the middle attack vector device. Giving all my most sensitive login credentials to a Chinese company that's trying very hard not to be seen as a Chinese company seems like a totally sane and safe thing to do...
- lgleason 3y agoFeels like this is a natural effect of peak AI hype.
- rabuse 3y agoWe have definitely not peaked yet... I expect so much more crap, the likes of which shitcoins have never seen.
- grok29 3y ago[dead]
- qainsights 3y agoIs it using OpenAI under the hood?
- taytus 3y agoWhy did they turn off comments on their YouTube video? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22wlLy7hKP4&ab_channel=rabbit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22wlLy7hKP4&ab_channel=rabbi... This smells fishy.
- crotchfire 3y agoPlease enable JavaScript to view this website
- huy77 3y agoI am convinced that this company is 1-man standing. The man made this whole thing up himself.
- Quinzel 3y agoThe actual device looks like the kind of toy smart phone you give a toddler for their toy box, and I genuinely don’t see a need for a new device. The AI in the device could be installed on any smartphone surely? Are they pitching the device to try and make their product seem more tangible and get buy-in from more people?
- shoulderfake 3y ago[dead]
- nextworddev 3y agoLooks like vaporware to me
- gumby 3y agoI think this is Apple's plan for the apple watch. I see my gf leave the house without her beloved iphone, making calls, listening to messages etc with her airpods connected to her watch. She doesn't even touch it. I might even have tried it myself if Siri didn't suck to much. My experiments in this regard were...discouraging. Perhaps she radically restricts her use to things Siri understands (unlikely in her case) or she just knows how to speak in a way aligned to siri's expectations). Though the other night I did awake to her her firmly saying "flashlight. flashlight. flashlight." for a bit followed by "shit" and a bit of fumbling at her wrist.
- nunez 3y agoi do the same when i go to the gym or go on a bike ride. some apps are a bit of a pain to use on their own (trying to join a meeting from a calendar invite doesn't work because hrefs aren't tappable), but overall, i really like the experience and wish i could do it more often.
- cedws 3y agoI can't tell if it's tongue-in-cheek but the keynote is extremely similar to the first iPhone keynote.
- akraut 3y agoFYI: Anyone that decides to throw down just to see when the hardware comes out, the return policy is 14 days after money changes hands
- DrNosferatu 3y agoIt’s the wrong form format: - It should be a Smart Watch! (or smart glasses, perhaps later) With a companion web dashboard to be used from the user’s smartphone, tablet or PC.
- rufusthedogwoof 3y agoI feel like we could do this on a steam deck with docker, ollama, mistral, and crewai. push a button and talk to the ear buds. On wifi at least. without a camera. Not sure if any models are trained with app screenshots and interactions quite yet though. Shouldn't be long.
- unknown2342 3y agovery inspiring. I like to primitive UX things: the scroll wheel and the turning camera and the button. If I had 200 bucks for fun, I would spend them.
- unnouinceput 3y agoQuote: "Pre-order now". Just like for games, "no, I don't think I will". I'll let the quirks be ironed first then I'll see the reviews.
- sebramirez 3y agoI genuinely think this tech is really cool for old or disabled people who can all of a sudden interface with their devices with just natural language, that said I legitimately just do not see the appeal for regular users but cool tech nonetheless.
- Dwanesr 3y agoWho is Arthur Ashe
- akrymski 3y agoImagine reading HN on this thing. Voice chat with your computer is possibly the worst input method. UIs exist for a reason. Clicking a few buttons is much faster than a conversation. The future of computing doesn't look like a bot that's automating some website UI actions. A legal aside: if an airline wants to make a sucky UI because its trying to upsell, should it be legal to allow users to skip over it? Is a company's website any different to their physical storefront?
- krunck 3y agoNo thanks. I'll wait until the LLM/AI is resident on the phone and can be updated/replaced by the end user.
- intrasight 3y agoSame. And I don't think we'll have to wait long - perhaps a year.
- srirach 3y agoThat orange was incredibly hard on my eyes
- LASR 3y agoQuick feedback if the founders are watching this: Please allow controls on your keynote video. The video production quality looks great. But I am not watching it if I don't know if it's a 30s one or a 30minute one.
- marcellus23 3y agoMaybe they just added it, but I do see controls there (Safari).
- qup 3y agoI do also. (Firefox) It's a vimeo embed Edit: My feedback is that it's too slow. I wish the features were shown off before I had to get a layman's education for several minutes. I'm also really concerned that his uber will arrive before the pizza. I like the device. It seems easy enough for my elderly father to use, and he won't lose it as "one of the websites" he can ask for help. There's something important about the focus a physical device brings; he can remember how to use it, where it's at, etc. The GPT UI I built him gets lost in his bookmarks, and he forgets it exists.
- a2128 3y agoA while ago I came across a website with a video player that gaslights you with a logarithmic progress bar. It had me fooled for a while into thinking the video has only 2-3 minutes left, before I finally clicked the pop-out button in Firefox and realized I was only 20% of the way through a 45 minute video.
- 2Gkashmiri 3y agoIs there a Firefox extension for android that can take over the js crap that people call video players and give something decent? I know there are open in x but that isn't seamless. I just want a video player that is standard across the Board. Like safari on iOS used to turn any video on browser to a standard video player window with normal controls.
- throwanem 3y ago
- htrp 3y agoIsn't Gemini nano being integrated into all of the new pixels?
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- rgbrgb 3y agoNote that this is a Teenage Engineering collab! Pretty exciting and a crazy low price point for something with their name on it. This isn't a phone though right? The title seems wrong.
- jadengeller 3y agoYeah, the price difference between this and Teenage Engineering's own products is wild! It's worth noting the Playdate (by Panic) is designed by Teenage Engineering and also just $200. https://shop.play.date https://shop.play.date
- yellow_postit 3y agoI was pleasantly surprised by the Play date and feel ok at this price point taking a bet that this will be an enjoyable novelty.
- DennisAleynikov 3y agoI need to start my teenage engineering collab collection. Such wonderful and refreshing experiences. I’ve used my friends playdate but never took the plunge and it’s wonderful, haptics and everything
- natch 3y agoOn their hiring page they are looking for VoIP experience so maybe maybe a VoIP device.
- natch 3y agook wow if that’s true the credibility just went way up. Interesting.
- pbronez 3y agoNeat idea, worth a try. Privacy story will be interesting.
- 80scyborgninja 3y agohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2h-Hl3lewg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2h-Hl3lewg
- ChrisArchitect 3y agoOfficial: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22wlLy7hKP4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22wlLy7hKP4
- leetharris 3y agoI am almost never a hater on people trying ambitious things, but man this is one of the most "doomed to fail" things I've ever seen. You've got absolutely insane market saturation by two major players that have some of the most advanced AI teams on the planet. Almost nobody is going to buy an "LLM-first phone," they will just wait for Apple or Google to put an LLM into their existing phone.
- drawnwren 3y agoI think the optimistic take for investors is maybe they make some interesting LLM-phone tech and get acquired?
- ttul 3y agoThat seems unlikely given that both Apple and Google have been employing the world's top ML scientists for years, have unlimited budgets, have better access to customers than any startup (to find out what customers want), and ... need I go on? Yes, it's nice that "Rabbit" is exploring this area and being innovative, but unless their particular take on mobile phones catches the world unexpectedly by storm, nobody will mourn their passing when the money runs out later this year.
- msephton 3y agoRabbit already seem to be in year 4. Over $30M in funding. And the founder/s have prior history in the field.
- com2kid 3y ago> That seems unlikely given that both Apple and Google have been employing the world's top ML scientists for years, have unlimited budgets, have better access to customers than any startup (to find out what customers want), and ... need I go on? Yes, it's nice that "Rabbit" is exploring this area and being innovative, but unless their particular take on mobile phones catches the world unexpectedly by storm, nobody will mourn their passing when the money runs out later this year. I worked with one of the (many) teams at Microsoft who worked on Cortana. The way the team leader explained it to me is that Cortana could do a lot more, but internal corporate politics prevented it. Rather than implementing the best solutions to user's problems, they had to do things like ensure Bing search handled certain results, to make sure that team stayed happy. Or to take it to the extreme, if someone at Google came up with a device that directly beamed 100% correct search results into your brain, Google would never release the product because of the loss of search ad revenue.
- tracyhenry 3y agoMy hot take: ALL AI wearable companies should return their money to investors, and wait for the AR glasses by Apple. AR glasses are the ultimate form factor. And as much as I hate monopoly, Apple has the right app/dev ecosystem, and will make Siri work.
- terafo 3y agoVision Pro isn't really supposed to be used outside.
- tracyhenry 3y agoI'm talking about AR glasses, not Vision Pro.
- daveguy 3y agoDo we know an ETA on those?
- whywhywhywhy 3y agoThe fact the Vision Pro is passthrough VR instead of an AR screen on glass (as in when the battery is dead you see black, not see the room with no AR) says that it's far away.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- dweekly 3y agoOr while moving.
- rvz 3y agoAbsolutely correct. The AR glasses race is between Apple and Meta Platforms. This 'LLM-first phone' looks like a solution in search of a problem. But we'll see.
- pizzafeelsright 3y agoNo one, including us, will be able to use personally identifiable information (your name, phone number, email address, etc.) for any purpose other than serving you. Has some CPP vibes.
- samb1729 3y agoCPP?
- ryanklee 3y agoIt's an LLM technology that allows certain models to run on CPUs rather than big beefy GPUs. Makes running locally viable for consumers.
- muricula 3y agoIs there a specific paper or something you can point me to? Or are you talking about like llama.cpp? Because I thought that referred to the fact that it was originally one c++ file named llama.cpp?
- airstrike 3y agoInteresting idea, kudos. Definitely advances the conversation, even if it doesn't ultimately emerge as the winner
- rsolva 3y agoThat Teenage Engineering is collaborating on this makes this a very interesting device. But I would not call it a phone? A pocket assistant maybe?
- Gys 3y agoWhere did you see them mentioned? For sure makes it more real!
- syassami 3y agohttps://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20231221415633/en/rabbit-inc.-Raises-Additional-10M-to-Launch-First-AI-Hardware-to-Replace-App-based-Operating-Systems https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20231221415633/en/rab...
- furyofantares 3y agoIn the video when they first show the actual device.
- swalsh 3y agoSmart phones are closer to smart cameras. I use the phone app maybe once a month. I'd argue it might be viable to build a smart phone that has no phone.
- sergiotapia 3y agoSmall enough that I would carry it in my shirt pocket or back pocket for anything. Looks very slick and at a very good price. Will buy three for my siblings this christmas.
- edude03 3y agoI read the comments before I watched the video and I'm actually way more optimistic about this now than I was expecting to be. Yes, google or apple will probably ship LLMs on their phones eventually and make an overall more compelling product than Rabbit _if_ you're only willing to have one device. Considering the relatively low price (and assuming they actually deliver it in a timely fashion) I can see this being useful as a pocket assistant between now and whenever google et al eventually catch up, and potentially past then if rabbit keeps innovating.
- ssgodderidge 3y agoI see this as less of a competitor to a smartphone, and more of a competitor to a Light Phone [1]. Seems like it might help folks avoid doom-scrolling in a similar way, while providing a higher level of functionality. [1] https://www.thelightphone.com/shop/products/light-phone-ii-black https://www.thelightphone.com/shop/products/light-phone-ii-b...
- northes 3y agoI don't want to be mean, but... - the keynote video isn't scrollable behind the giant "share" button - the text on the keynote page is incredibly difficult to read (small text + very low contrast) - the homepage is full of dizzying animations that don't tell me anything about what the "phone" is actually supposed to do - "How it works" is just a set of animated cards. Once you figure out they're clickable (hoverable?), they spin around to reveal... half-formed ad copy? I wanted to know how it worked. I'm willing to believe this is a real product only because of the "research" page, but it feels more like an aspiring web designer's portfolio piece. The flashiness of it all makes it really difficult to figure out what anything actually is.
- superfrank 3y agoI only skimmed the video, but I have to agree. The biggest problem I see is that I don't want to talk to my phone for a lot of things. If I'm having a text conversation or trying to look up something on the internet while I'm in a crowded room, I don't want to use my voice for that. If fact, while there are some things that I would find this helpful for, I would say the majority of the interactions with my phone are things I would actually prefer to have a keyboard for. While this thing does have a touchscreen keyboard it seems to me like the biggest selling point of the phone is actually something I don't want to use most of the time. I can't really see this succeeding for that reason.
- ShamelessC 3y agoThat rotating camera seems doomed to break easily.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- supafastcoder 3y agoThese demos are always the same: “<Product> find me the closest pizza” Who actually interacts with a device like that? Is it an important problem enough to be paying $199 while I can do the same thing (often even better) with my phone?
- rchaud 3y agoPeople that buy Alexas in droves.
- fxd123 3y ago"Amazon Alexa is a “colossal failure,” on pace to lose $10 billion this year" (2022) https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/11/amazon-alexa-is-a-colossal-failure-on-pace-to-lose-10-billion-this-year/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/11/amazon-alexa-is-a-co...
- zyang 3y agoDoes the LLM run on device or in cloud. Can't find any info on the website but I assume device that size everything runs in the backend?
- spaboleo 3y agoCloud since a web interface and email interaction are showcased in the keynote.
- thatguysaguy 3y agoDef cloud, we don't have the tech to run what they're doing on that small of a device atm. (At least not at that price point).
- jadengeller 3y agoI'll admit the device is very cute, but without a solution to prompt injection, you'd be a fool to give this access to your accounts.
- YarickR2 3y ago>the future of human-machine interface No. I could go deep into "rare language, weird slang, local dialect" hole, but simple "No" would be enough. Their website is exceedingly non user-friendly, too
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- caligarn 3y agoI think what’s impressive here is their approach to “Teach Mode”, which essentially teaches the average consumer how machine learning works. I think that’s already a much better approach than Humane Ai and provides a better path long term for where this could go. This approach of a Large Action Model that can control any of your apps by watching you use them is a unique implementation for a hardware device. The hardware isn’t super impressive but the approach has staying power. It’s always way less invasive than Humane AI pin, it’s deliberate usage.
- furyofantares 3y agoI'd totally buy a ChatGPT+ device for my 7yo and I imagine people around the house would use it quite a bit. Not sure I want to replace any other actions yet. Probably someday, but touch + apps is actually just incredibly good. A sub-1yo can start learning to use a smartphone / ipad, and a 6yo can put together an uber eats order. I'm not saying it can't be improved on, and I fully want a competent voice assistant in my phone. But it's gonna be real hard to do better than what we already have in our pockets on the things they're already good at. So this presentation fell flat is for me are when it was talking about doing things pretty much everyone does just fine on their phone. But it was very exciting to imagine a ChatGPT+ device sitting around the house for anyone to pick up and interact with.
- mt_ 3y agoInnovation for e-waste rennovation.
- popey 3y agoHeh, Rabbit (another one) was a location-specific mobile phone company in the UK back in the early 1990's. You had to be near an antenna to make or receive a call. It's the first thing that came to mind when this post came up. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbit_(telecommunications) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbit_(telecommunications)
- natch 3y agoSo many questions. Is this a YC company? Did they apply? Does anyone know anything about them at all? It just screams scam to me. Who would give them $200 for vapor? [Edit: I have been told the device has been demoed in a comment below, so perhaps it might be real.] Let’s say Apple were to do this. Apple would take years to get it right but when they announced it would be with a date with an accuracy to within a certain quarter. And it would just work on day one. Of course it would be saddled with subscriptions, but it would be real. It just doesn’t smell right that a team led by a guy who can’t manage to pronounce his own first name clearly could think through all the issues and have a coherent vision within a year of when LLMs really took off. Another possibility my paranoid mind comes up with here is the team/founder caught wind of some half baked research from inside Apple and decided they would try to pull a fast one and whip out a product before Apple could. And by the way, again of course it’s vapor, until it’s not, but we are still at the “it is” stage.
- wenc 3y ago> It just doesn’t smell right that a team led by a guy who can’t manage to pronounce his own first name clearly could think through all the issues and have a coherent vision within a year of when LLMs really took off. Weird ad hominem. Your entire comment reeks of a bundle of biases.
- c_o_n_v_e_x 3y agoA few colleagues and I were baffled about the launch. Anecdotally, between the group, we consume a huge amount of tech news daily and were all caught off guard by the launch. How were 10k sold in a day if no one's heard of this company before?
- swyx 3y ago> Who would give them $200 for vapor? this doesnt qualify for vapor - they have shown the device in use, and announced a ship date.
- whstl 3y agoThe CEO was/is also the CEO in an YC company: https://www.ycombinator.com/companies/raven-tech https://www.ycombinator.com/companies/raven-tech (Click the LinkedIn icon for more info) Don't know the current status.
- wangii 3y agogreat, the new OS war is coming! the question is, who gets the network effect bottle neck right?
- VickWildman 3y agoThe website and the first 5 minutes of the keynote fails to convey what the device does exactly, other than that it meant to replace smartphones, which can't be right. This form factor would be inconvenient for watching videos and that's one of the most common uses of smartphones. They should just market it as a pocket assistant and make it do one thing exceptionally well. It's a losing strategy to try to be everything for everyone instead of just trying to dominate a small beachhead market. Smartphones with better assistants are coming, but there is no reason to compete with them. Just differentiate the damn product.
- v9v 3y agoI'm curious how they plan on covering the cost of their cloud services without a subscription fee.
- uni_baconcat 3y agoLLM-first phone, but LLM not run locally? I can't accept that.
- freediver 3y agoOne of the most impressive product launches I've seen recently. Looks almost too good to be true. Good luck to the team.
- fooqux 3y ago>Looks almost too good to be true. That's because it is. Telling my phone to "edit images on Photoshop" (one of their examples) just doesn't seem feasible in the majority of interactions.
- freediver 3y agoThey sold 10k units in first 24h, so there must be other fools like me who thought they are onto something. Looks like a new category of devices being born.
- rburhum 3y agoSidenote: I find it funny that somebody that is trying to create a product that competes with Apple and Google ends up showing both of their logos in many places of their most important marketing video.
- pmelendez 3y agoI am definitely not the target audience for this. I am that person that keeps typing while people send voice notes, and now the only way to interact with this device is via voice? :(
- ianbicking 3y agoThis was what I had hoped might be possible years ago working on a voice assistant for a browser (Firefox Voice). That was all prototypish and desktop-focused, but the real potential I saw was in remote control of a cloud-based browser. Voice assistants without a way to execute actions are pretty limited. Google/Siri/Alexa built up those actions through sheer effort, creating integrations for everything, carefully handling the conflicts, etc. A cloud-based browser has the potential to maintain context and perform actions across everything right away, without that huge investment and need for market share, nor buy-in from service providers. I'm not sure how exactly they handle the communication between that browser and the phone, but at least my sense of this is that they are doing what I imagine is "standard" browser automation (which is much more advanced with LLMs) and then something to reinterpret the output for the phone. You can do a lot with the mobile view of the sites, but they seem to be going further. (For something like Spotify I wonder if they are doing something site-specific) The use of a browser offers interesting possibilities for auditing what is happening. With something like GPT Plugins you can see the JSON, but it's not really equivalent to what you as a user understand. Looking at them using Discord, it makes me think they must be doing automation through vision, detecting pixel locations, etc, as Discord is deliberately hard to automate.
- com2kid 3y agoIMHO based on the few screenshots they showed in the background when talking about their LAM, I think they are either using something like the accessibility APIs to interact with the UI tree directly.
- miki123211 3y agoAccessibility APIs are another way to do it. You can't break them because you have a bunch of angry blind people at your doorstep, but accessibility and automation are very closely related. If you expose your UI to a screen reader, you also expose it to whatever other apps want access.
- paweladamczuk 3y ago> LAM completes these tasks for you on virtual environments in our cloud > no subscription required This does not compute for me.
- LegitShady 3y agoIf you're not paying money you're the product. Sometimes you're both.
- gmuslera 3y agoThe future is now. At least the 5 next minutes, but then it will keep changing and what you do with an intended expire time of at least a year will be badly obsolete and moldy in a month. That is the problem doing end user hardware tied to a technology that is changing very fast and where most of the innovation may be out of your sight, being carried by your main competitors.
- whstl 3y agoIf it's a cloud device, like most people here are speculating it is, then the hardware doesn't matter that much. There are other worries, such as privacy and keeping the cloud alive, though, but the hardware doesn't seem to be the limiting factor here.
- Krasnol 3y agoI'd buy that for my elderly parents who are overwhelmed with apps. Probably not the first model but the next one for sure if it can text and phone too. I think there is a market for this and even though I despise talking to a device, I can see the use and I can see how it could bridge a world which is getting too complicated.
- frogamel 3y agoI must be missing something here. I used to work on a voice assistant product and everything demoed is pretty bog standard stuff: play music, shop, order food, get Uber rides, ask random queries, recognize images. This also runs into the same core issue as voice assistants, which is that it's way easier to transmit complex thoughts/actions on a nice big visual UI than it is to convert those thoughts/actions into verbal instructions. For example, when people order food from an online menu, most people are not fine with "get me the closest pizza available". They're usually considering complex tradeoffs between lots of factors: alternative restaurants nearby, how visually appealing is pictures of the food, health content, other options on the menu including their prices and content and how well they complement other dishes, etc. Figuring out how to express these preferences via a back-and-forth with an AI is more tedious than just looking at a visual interface and letting your subconscious process all this information into a choice.
- dogprez 3y agoIt does have a screen for output. In they demo they showed it displaying a stock graph. As for input, I suspect elucidating your desires verbally is a muscle that is developed, like learning to program or be a writer. The assistants of yore are so error prone and slow people may not have got to that level, LLM might be the difference there.
- com2kid 3y ago> play music I can be driving in my car, say "OK Google, open Spotify" and Google happily replies "OK, opening Spotify on your TV". Lovely. I have a Spotify playlist called "kid's music". "OK Google, play the Spotify playlist Kid's Music", and it'll go and play someone else's public playlist called Kid's Music. Even sending messages barely works. "Ok Google, send a message to <wife's name because I cannot say "my wife" due to how unintelligent Google assistant is> on Facebook Messenger saying ...." "Sorry, I cannot send messages through Facebook Messenger". It can read messages from Facebook Messenger, but not send them, lovely. I had Music playing on my phone, I wanted to know what song it was. "Ok Google, what song is playing", soon as I say that, the music stops and now Google assistant is listening to nothing. Right now I cannot say "OK Google, go to Discord channel <foo> and summarize the day's conversation". > which is that it's way easier to transmit complex thoughts/actions on a nice big visual UI Depends on the task. Some are better on a UI (I want to see pictures of the dishes before I order), some are better with voice or natural language input. Even on my PC, I could see some tasks being easier with an LLM "Close all code editors I haven't touched in a week." "Clean up my browser tabs by closing out all YouTube, reddit, and hacker news tabs. Keep open any tabs involving AI research or LLMs."
- infotainment 3y agoAs usual with Teenage Engineering, I love the hardware design, but this aspect of the software is a letdown: > rabbit OS operates apps on our secured cloud, so you don’t have to. Log into the apps you’d like rabbit to use on your system through the rabbit hole to relay control. You only need to do this once per app. So things don't run on the device, but on the cloud. Unfortunate.
- wmf 3y agoThe device is $200 and appears to be smaller than a phone so yeah, it does not run AI locally. I assume Siri doesn't run locally on Apple Watch or AirPods either.
- tuckerman 3y agoNot that it refutes your general point, but the latest Apple watch runs (at least some) Siri requests locally on the device.
- slashink 3y agoYeah it sets timers, that's about it. Not saying this product is good but the intention of what they are trying to enable here is a world apart from what Apple is running on the watch.
- armadsen 3y agoMy understanding is that in recent versions of iOS (and iPadOS) Siri runs a decent percentage of requests locally as well.
- mqus 3y ago"operates apps so you don't have to" -> "to use, use a different PC, open the browser app and log into spotify" so... you also still have to have another PC and operate apps on it.
- whstl 3y ago
- thallavajhula 3y agoTeenage Engineering's hardware design is so cool. I'm a fan of their aesthetics. Their color choices are great too.
- hbn 3y agoI don't use my Playdate as much as I'd like but I just love clicking around in the menus, pulling out and docking the crank. Even just how it looks sitting on my desk, with the bright yellow plastic and bright purple flip cover. It's a beautiful piece of hardware.
- i80and 3y agoThey're almost an interactive art project that somehow got enough of an audience to sell their artwork en masse. I'm very glad they exist, but I'm always a bit flummoxed by what they make and manage to sell.
- munificent 3y agoI don't know about their other gear, but they sold a lot of OP-1s.
- yungporko 3y agoif TE are selling it for $200, it must only be worth $20.
- ancientworldnow 3y agoTE did the hardware design, it's not a TE product. It's like those old hard drives "designed by Porsche" etc.
- scblock 3y agoHow can you so badly fail at even saying what the hell this is on your shitty glossy web site? What is this? The page is just a list of hardware 'features' with large but unclear pictures. "push to talk button" ok, so? "far-field mike" ok, so? "360 degree rotational eye" so what? "analog scroll wheel" that does what? "usb-c plus sim card slot" which gives me what? There's a video but I shouldn't have to watch a video.
- xcv123 3y agoSeems like AI generated garbage
- astroalex 3y agoI totally agree. The video does actually show the product, and it looks interesting, but the other parts of the website are a big turn off.
- nusl 3y agoThis is a bit harsh. I feel that you can figure out what the device is before even scrolling. It’s a companion device that you can interact with to get assistance with various things, and the features you mention are how it gets instructions and information.
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- annexrichmond 3y agoI wasn't able to figure out what this device is or what it's for from their home page. I did get a better idea by reading the HN comments though.
- clarebear123 3y agoYea I didn't want to watch the video and had no idea what it was, my best guess was it was a quirky non-smart phone, never occurred to me it might be a "companion device" whatever that is exactly.
- 3y ago
- drcongo 3y agoI thought this was going to be a Teenage Engineering sex toy and I'm slightly disappointed that it isn't.
- lucasban 3y agoNice, clicky buttons
- brcmthrowaway 3y agoHow does this compare to the Humane device?
- noman-land 3y agoIt appears to be $500 cheaper and is a handheld device rather than one that is worn. It also has a screen.
- crubier 3y agoI have no idea whatsoever about what this device is doing but I'm pretty sure it should have been just a mobile app
- riscy 3y agoYeah the "OS" appears to be their backend that boils down to your login credentials + something like Selenium WebDriver + ChatGPT. The R1 device is just a thin client.
- patja 3y agoKind of a hilarious take if you watch the keynote where significant time and a moving backdrop are devoted to highlighting the miasma of navigating across 100 apps on a smartphone. Decrying "just install another app" is a big part of the raison d'etre for the whole product!
- yungporko 3y agono it really should have been an app, this thing is stupid. "phones have too many apps so buy this toy device and also keep your phone because you're still going to need it to do most things"
- pazimzadeh 3y agoYeah but I'd rather have an extra app than having to carry around two devices
- crubier 3y agoyeah sure but also maybe the keynote presenter is completely deluded
- thih9 3y agoThe device offers some nice privacy friendly hardware UI, like a push to talk button or a swivel camera. Also, being an alternative to the smartphone seems sort of a point of this device.
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- max_ 3y agoWho ever comes up with these Teenage Engineering designs is an actual, real genius!
- msephton 3y agoJesper Kouthoofd
- sergiomattei 3y agoThis landing page is an utter failure. I can’t believe this got past anyone. I’ve read the whole thing and I still have no idea what it does or what problem it solves. I’m not watching a Keynote to find out either. Who made this?
- progbits 3y agoTeenage Engineering is always like this. The hardware looks really cool (aesthetically I mean; no value judgment on quality or such) but they seem to have looked at Apple presentations and though those are not pretentious enough.
- hiatus 3y ago> but they seem to have looked at Apple presentations and though those are not pretentious enough. The design is by Teenage Engineering but is not sold by them.
- LegitShady 3y agoIts made for TE fanboys who will buy anything TE releases. A TE product for only $200? They'll order 5. Problem to solve? Why would that matter? It's a fashion lifestyle product.
- qingcharles 3y agoThe keynote takes forever to tell you what the thing does. It is a cool toy, and the price is low, but I don't know if it will go anywhere.
- tapoxi 3y agoIt's a neat idea but I'm not sure what the audience is. "It's simpler", but you still need to manage a bunch of integrations from a computer? It can't seem to make phone calls? I just want something that I can give my 93 year old grandfather so he can order a ride and get reminders about his prescriptions. Rabbit seems like a device that misses an audience that actually needs a simpler smartphone.
- Krasnol 3y agoMy elderly parents were my idea too, and the fact that I can manage the integration from my computer is actually a plus here. It's not like you have to do it all the time. It has to be able to make phone calls and text on WhatsApp/Signal too, though.
- canucker2016 3y agothe screen looks like it may be too small for people who have vision problems - no idea if one can adjust the text size used. But the device does "say" the text, so if the user has decent hearing, they could rely on the audio versus reading the text. Now if multiple in the same area were using this device, it may get chaotic/confusing, but no moreso than multiple people having loud voice conversations in one place.
- tomtheelder 3y agoI think the intended audience is really anyone and everyone. It’s a very grand vision. I definitely see the appeal. I do not like owning and using a smartphone. A more functional device with a pared back interface is exactly what I would want, and I think they’re _is_ a decent slice of people out there who agree. You see that in the dumb phone and minimalist phone market that’s popped up. That said my experiences with LLMs are that they are woefully underbaked for this kind of thing, and it’s a really tough sell to me on a privacy basis as well. But for older folks I’m not sure I agree that the market is missed. I suspect the idea would be that you would manage the web portion for your grandfather and then he can just chat to the device. Unclear if it can make calls though, that does seem like a miss!
- 3y ago
- tptacek 3y agoThis seems like one of the least expensive things Teenage Engineering has done.
- schaefer 3y agoSame street price as the play.date, similar form factor? Both by Teenage Engineering. [1]: https://play.date https://play.date
- much-to-learn 3y agoInstantly thought it looked like a red play date with a different gimmick. (No crank but scroll wheel and 360 cam)
- mardifoufs 3y agoYeah it's not a TE product, just a TM design I think. Though to be honest the price is very suspect, TE is usually very expensive but this is too cheap for what it claims it is.
- nycticorax 3y agoCan someone who has watched the keynote tell me what this device is for?
- asadalt 3y agotalk to llm bot
- rhinoceraptor 3y agoIt's a client device to an LLM that can use software on your behalf, presumably running on Android and Chrome/Linux VMs that they host. You log in to their web portal, authenticate various apps as you would on your own phone, and then the LLM can do everything you can do. You can also train it to do specific tasks. When you press the button on the side, you speak as you would type to ChatGPT, but now the LLM can do arbitrary things as you.
- josephwegner 3y agoHow in the world are they going to make money on this? Perhaps the hardware is cheap to manufacture, but with no subscription I feel like they are going to get taken to the cleaner on LLM API fees. Even if they're running the LLM themselves, it's not cheap. Could they really be getting enough margin on the device to pay their staff _and_ all of that infra? Or maybe this is another VC-backed sale price :)
- nwoli 3y agoI figured it’s local llms on the device
- whywhywhywhy 3y agoIt's not powerful enough for that, 2018 chipset -> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38938330 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38938330 "No subscription" definitely sounds good to get people in the door but it seems short sighted in the long run, can't be making much on $200 and the more it's used the more that margin is eaten. Presumably they will roll out a sub at some point for extra features but then you get the backlash of "You said no subscription".
- radicalbyte 3y agoLoss leader and data collection play? EDIT: it's 100% the razor model, they want the device out there so they own your interaction with "service providers"; i.e. they take a cut of everything to do. Middle men.
- diebeforei485 3y agoPresumably the optional data sim plans. It's not much different than Sony selling PlayStations at a low price but making money off the games.
- pmuse 3y agoCool product but I agree with others that their site does not really demonstrate the value proposition of the device in a clear way. You shouldn't have to watch the keynote to understand what it is. I also have a hard time believing it will work as well as they say it does gen-1 at a $200 price point. I'm very skeptical. The teenage engineering design is nice though, looks like something out of the movie Her.
- modeless 3y ago$199 with no subscription? You must have to bring your own data sim card. Or can it get its connection from your phone? And is the AI stuff running locally on the device? Impressive if so. Suspicious if not; there's no way the service remains free forever. Pretty compelling price, and I'm certain the vision of AI agents that can use any existing app or website to take actions on your behalf is the future of computing. But there's no room in my pocket for a second device. I don't see how a device is going to succeed when an equivalent app for existing phones seems around the corner.
- niutech 3y agoIt's indeed suspicious. You're sending your voice samples, your various services accounts, your location and more private data to some proprietary black box in some public cloud. Sorry, but this is a privacy nightmare. It should be open source and self-hosted like Mycroft (https://mycroft.ai https://mycroft.ai) or Leon (https://getleon.ai https://getleon.ai) to be trustworthy.
- threatofrain 3y agoThe AI runs on their cloud. It's unfortunate but the industry is only starting to catch onto on-device models language models.
- helloericsf 3y agoNeed to submit your OpenAI API key to use the full service. :P
- ilaksh 3y agoIt's not a matter of "catching on". There are smaller models and they have been looking into putting useful models on device from day one. It's just the fact that the models that can currently run on a mobile device are not effective enough. It is about the most memory and compute intensive type of application ever. In particular, models that can reason or follow instructions reliably and for general purpose are too big to run quickly on mobile devices. They are putting models on phones, but they do not have general purpose assistant capabilities. This may change in the next few years though.
- huhtenberg 3y agoWeird, no media gets loaded on the site if the uBlock is on.
- mightyham 3y agoThe value preposition here seems pretty weak. AI voice assistants are, in my experience, one of the worst ways to interact with a computer. What does this device offer that I can't already do on my cell phone?
- PostOnce 3y agoA weird cellphone that runs everything from the cloud? There's no way this isn't a nonfunctional brick in 18-36 months when they go bust.
- fragmede 3y agoTeenage engineering has been around long enough they won't go bust in 2 years.
- simonw 3y agoThe hardware was designed by Teenage Engineering but the company producing the device (and presumably operating the cloud services it depends on) is separate.
- PostOnce 3y agoThe hardware looks cool as can be; I have total faith in Teenage Engineering, and no faith in this other random startup's cloud AI (especially since we're in an AI hype bubble and their funding is going to run out at some point)
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- pixelpoet 3y agoThe "keynote" (is that what we're calling advertising videos now?) was pretty awful, and I'm unconvinced that making people unable to even use smartphones (which has already supplanted computer literacy for most) is progress. Extra negative taste points for wanting a "cool SUV" for a trip to London.
- dhumph 3y agoI don't know about others, but I don't want something else to carry in my pocket.. especially something that duplicates what i can already do, just in a different way. seems like it's connecting to external services but i'm not sure why siri couldn't do that.
- hauget 3y agoI hope they succeed. Would buy this if it worked offline. Wish Pebble hadn't gone broke and had launched their Pebble Core device. Always thought it was a great idea.
- endofreach 3y agoHow do companies like this get funding? Do they get it before even having a prototype?
- qingcharles 3y agoWalk into VC meeting, say "LLM", collect cash... profit?
- Hamuko 3y agoI assume by selling products to customers.
- endofreach 3y agoIts serious question. I am stuck in a loop of taking clients money to bootstrap my startup but i need much more to pay a few other engineers to show companies like these that they produce garbage. Even apple is running in the totally wrong direction. Until now i was under the impression i'd need to hustle more to earn cash & build the prototype. But that won't be fast enough. I can't watch people that just don't get it but try to imitate apple (website, keynote, lol) with just some bullshit. The more i watch from the sidelines, the more i am reassured that we are building something incredible that nobody sees coming. But we are not located in the EU, not the US. So i am not sure what i should do.
- com2kid 3y agoThe founder launched a product previously, which means he has a track record of leading an engineering team to success. > But we are not located in the EU, not the US. So i am not sure what i should do. Keep the team in the EU, founders move to US, become a global remote company, raise funding in the US.
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- canucker2016 3y agoExperience in the domain. They must have had a prototype to get their initial $20M funding (Oct 4) as well as another $10M announced 10 weeks later (just 3 weeks ago). see https://www.rabbit.tech/updates/rabbit-raises-20m https://www.rabbit.tech/updates/rabbit-raises-20m and https://www.rabbit.tech/updates/rabbit-raises-additional-10m https://www.rabbit.tech/updates/rabbit-raises-additional-10m But the actual rabbit device in the keynote could have come later. The cloud backend including the LLM is independent of the rabbit device. They could've demo'ed an app on an iPhone to show the VCs - there's nothing rabbit-device-specific that an iPhone or Android phone couldn't do.
- theogravity 3y agoNot sure why they felt they needed their own hardware for this. They could have built it for multiple platforms to get more traction / usage.
- rchaud 3y agoTE is known for hardware design. To be honest, nobody cares about another app promising to improve some aspect of your life.
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- aae42 3y ago> To be honest, nobody cares about another app promising to improve some aspect of your life thisssss... many of the comments are wondering why this thing is a hardware device instead of an app and i think this is the answer
- ramesh31 3y agoEveryone wants so badly to be first to market with the "next big thing" after smart phones. And all of them fail the "so it's a phone, but just less capable?" test. A neat toy for hobbyists, but most people can't justify carrying two devices. And as soon as you add phone functionality to it... you've just made a new (more awkward) smartphone.
- niels_bom 3y agoThey’re all computers, whether you can make phonecalls with them is actually not that interesting. My takeaway of their angle is: the companies making the apps and services that are used a lot often have incentives that aren’t aligned with their users. People want to see baby photos, Facebook wants to sell ads, people want to find information, Google wants to sell ads, people want to see what their friends are doing Instagram wants to sell ads. The “LAM” promises to wrap a lot of stuff under an interface. The device itself is just the access point. I like the angle. I don’t see it working with today’s quality of LLM understanding human intent nor with all of the siloed platforms.
- thih9 3y agoNote that this is not a Teenage Engineering product. This is a product sold by Rabbit - and they hired TE to help as a design agency.
- whywhywhywhy 3y agoThink it's a mistake having the main product design team as an external resource not a core part of the company. Wont be a coherent vision.
- swalsh 3y agoI don't think the hardware is the main product. I think the AI is, but they didn't want to be "just an app" they want to be the first OS for the new way of computing. So they designed a new device. I wouldn't be surprised if they open up to OEM's to start making all kinds of devices.
- F7F7F7 3y agoI’m extremely bearish on this app. But Pininfarina basically saved Ferrari, revived Ferrari’s little brother Maserati and gave life back to Volvo. If done right (clearly defined roles, collaboration, design maturity etc) it works well.
- wkat4242 3y agoI think the hardware is just a gimmick. It gives the proposition more 'body' and is great for marketing. But really, this is screaming to be an app. There is literally nothing this thing can do that the phone in all of our pockets can't. Especially integrated with our smartwatches for ease of use. So why have a separate device for it? It makes no sense. I think the hardware is just there to make it not 'just another app' in the press, really. And that the app version will come soon after the physical product releases and will take over 99% of the installed base. And of course if this takes off they'll be quickly acquired by Apple, Microsoft, Google or Samsung. I bet that's what they're aiming for.
- mclightning 3y ago
- barrenko 3y agoCan it make calls?
- rib3ye 3y agoHiding the screen during the ticket purchase userflow/UI at 15:20 is laughable.
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- nderjung 3y agoThe biggest take away from this is the LAM-over-email which was hidden away in one of the demos. This has a lot more potential (esp. in a business context) in my opinion than the phone itself. Being able to directly email an autonomous agent or even CC one later into a conversation with instructions can be a game-changer. Not only would the replies be faster but the result could be cheaper compared to a human equivalent. One use case which comes to mind is, which was also demo'd, is making trip arrangements. In the demo, the spoken request to book a trip to London was long and precise; no way I would get that right the first time on any push-to-talk device. At my company, we use a travel agent for business trips which we email and they book everything and send over receipts and tickets. I could just as well be emailing a LLM/LAM.
- aetherspawn 3y agoI wish they put it next to something, I have difficulty understanding the size of it. People in this thread are talking about it like it’s tiny, but I got the impression from the pictures that it was gameboy size.
- layer8 3y agoLook into the keynote. Gameboy-sized is about right.
- canucker2016 3y agotheir keynote shows a person using the device, which is about the size of their palm. the screen is about 3/4 width of the actual device.
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- realo 3y agoNowadays we don't really buy hardware or software... We buy into ecosystems. The Android crowd, the Apple gang, etc... Once you are member of one ecosystem, friction is high enough usually to keep you in. Moreover, many of the eco-customers wear more than one device.. phone, watch ... So... why would I buy into yet another ecosystem with a third device to carry? And no... most eco-clients will not abandon their current ecosystem that easily. The 360 degree camera is quite nice, though...
- _jplc 3y agoGiving your credentials to an AI to buy stuff online by scraping a web interface is a perfectly sane and safe idea that won't have any unexpected consequences whatsoever.
- SparkyMcUnicorn 3y agoIn the keynote they claim to not store credentials and seem to imply they're using OAuth.
- LegitShady 3y agoI can just get an amazon echo if I want that.
- herval 3y ago“Alexa, buy an iphone 15”
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- ChrisArchitect 3y agoLooks alot like a play.date? Think I had forgotten TE did the design for that
- ChrisArchitect 3y agoWhat is the backstory of Rabbit? They had to get Jesse to do this keynote with his arms in the air the whole time?
- georgehill 3y agoVery interesting approach teachable agents. There is something similar, but without screen recording [1]. 1. https://github.com/vignshwarar/AI-Employe#:~:text=we%20don't%20record%20the%20screen%2C%20microphone%2C%20or%20camera%2C%20but%20we%20do%20record%20the%20dom%20element%20changes https://github.com/vignshwarar/AI-Employe#:~:text=we%20don't...
- mjhagen 3y agoThe pitch video makes me think of General Magic.
- underyx 3y agoTwo things in the keynote that seem faked: 1. at 13:13 there's a demo ordering a ride 'to home', then the user requests a car change to fit six people, and what's shown as a seamless switch from UberX to UberXL also updates the destination from the home address to LAX airport. 2. at 14:05 the device confirms and recites a pizza order, but the screen displays "chesse" with a typo while the voice reads out "cheese", so either the audio or the visuals is faked. My guess is that all of the on-device graphics were hand-written and hand-animated which would explain both mistakes. I stopped watching at that point. Am sort of sad to see Teenage Engineering associated with a product that seems so sloppy and/or shady.
- joezydeco 3y agoIs there any text-to-speech engine that would pronounce Cillian Murphy's name correctly on the first try?
- shermantanktop 3y agoIt’d be doing better than most people if it could.
- thatguysaguy 3y agoAnother time he's talking and typing at the same time, but says a different thing than he "types".
- covercash 3y agoRight after you stopped watching, he books an entire vacation - flights, hotel, car rental, activities - and says he is given multiple options to choose from but shows none of the options, just an itinerary that he quickly scrolls through.
- jonplackett 3y agoThe idea that anyone is going to book a vacation this way is ridiculous. Vacations take extensive thought. There’s no way a voice interface would work for this even if it was the Star Trek computer.
- everythingctl 3y agoHas any startup succeeded by starting out offering shiny hardware running innovative new software, all of which they have to develop? It seems like a fatal dilution of focus to have to worry about the design and logistics of a fancy dumb terminal widget when you also have to get the software/AI/app integration stuff right. Just make an app with text and voice interaction. Accept that the thing in our pockets with a screen and an internet connection is going to be a smartphone. You will not build an own-hardware moat with these weird little bits of e-waste.
- paxys 3y agoI don't think there has been a single successful hardware startup in the last decade, so the answer to your question is safely "no" without even going into specifics. Which is sad, because I'm sure there's room for a lot more innovative devices in the world outside of a single glass rectangle in your pocket that everyone must plug into in some way. The economics of the industry just makes it very hard for them to survive, and we all lose out because of it.
- sbarre 3y agoAnalogue ( https://www.analogue.co/ https://www.analogue.co/ ) comes to mind.. Genki Things is another... I'm sure there are others?
- endofreach 3y ago> The economics of the industry just makes it very hard for them to survive Care to expand on that?
- paxys 3y agoHardware companies have (1) greater costs to get off the ground (2) longer periods of development (3) higher incremental cost per sale (so harder to scale) (4) slower iteration speed, and (5) just overall a lot riskier than pure software. A VC fund is going to see a startup with a groundbreaking innovate hardware device next to one building a cookie cutter SaaS app and still invest in the latter, because it just makes more business sense for them. No one outside of Apple/Google/Microsoft and the like is pouring 10 years and billions of dollars towards releasing a new device.
- xvector 3y agoThis may just be the shittiest product website I've ever seen. It conveys absolutely nothing of value about the product. What problem does it solve? It's just "ooh, pretty pictures, buttons and camera." Seriously? I'm supposed to trust a product from a company that can't even tell me what it's about without making me sit through a 25-minute keynote? Are they out of their minds?
- zombiwoof 3y agoimagine everyone in the airport lounge all with these.
- impulser_ 3y ago[flagged]
- herval 3y agoIn this case, it’s a hardware maker company, so I’d say it’s expected? There’s tons and tons of startups doing software-only agents for your phone too
- pedalpete 3y agoCompletely agree with you along with a single caveat. I do think some of the UX of these devices offer something your mobile phone doesn't but in the name of testing the market, it would make more sense for them to build devices that are currently accessories to your phone, see what use case is getting traction and if a self contained device is necessary. What I find surprising about these devices is that not only am I paying a lot for the device, presumably because they over-built on software so they could have a stand-along experience, but I also have to have a 2nd SIM for it? Is everyone paying $50/month for each mobile connection?
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- animex 3y agoI know the $1000 device in my pocket is capable of all the things they implemented ... do I just wait for a Rabbit clone app? Or will Apple/Google just enhance their native offerings to include this sort of thing. I absolutely agree with the premise. Our phones are just mini-desktop computers accumulating unused programs that don't integrate with each other storing random bits of data all over itself. The whole device seems to be a more polished semantic web that we were promised years ago albeit being brute forced by AI because interop never evolved.
- msephton 3y agoApple would have to walk back some of their stance on privacy and/or their App Store rules. I hope they do, but I'm not holding my breath. Until then I'm cheering for people who are daring to think different.
- F7F7F7 3y agoFind a bored dev with a weekend on their hand and a spare Raspberry Pi. You’ll get your Rabbit clone.
- plasticbugs 3y agoIt's a striking condemnation of the current state of things that my $1K+ mobile phone does not do anything close to what's in this demo. I would pay $200 just to have a voice assistant that isn't totally incapable of playing songs requested like "Play SONG_TITLE from ALBUM_TITLE". As an example, yesterday my daughter asked for a song from Snow White. EDITED FOR CORRECTNESS (originally I said I asked for Heigh Ho from Cinderella) In the car I say, "Hey Siri, play Heigh Ho from the Snow White Soundtrack". Siri: "Sure, here's Snow (Hey Oh) by Red Hot Chili Peppers" (try it yourself!) Why are Alexa and Siri still so useless, inaccurate and inconsistent? Why can't I yet ask Siri to "book me a ride via Uber from location X to location Y" or "reorder the same thing I got last Tuesday from Uber Eats"? I assume it's down to compute costs, but I would absolutely pay an additional subscription fee for more intelligence behind these voice assistants.
- supertimor 3y agoI got it to work with Siri but had to give it a slightly different prompt. “Play Heigh-Ho from Disney’s Snow White soundtrack,” seems to work. Edit: I tried it a couple of more times with the same prompt and this is not consistently reproducible, so yeah, Siri is still pretty bad at this.
- herval 3y agoTo be fair, all of that seems quite easily done with an app - your phone should be more than capable of running those models. I’d imagine something like siri or alexa isn’t evolving as fast since the server side cost at their scale would be astronomical..
- dabluecaboose 3y ago>I say, "Hey Siri, play Heigh Ho from the Cinderella Soundtrack". It probably doesn't help that "Heigh Ho" is from Snow White https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSj2h34ZrmY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSj2h34ZrmY
- plasticbugs 3y agoSorry, I did actually ask for Snow White in the car! And it played a song called "Snow". Haha, reproducing it here at my desk I mistakenly said "Cinderella"
- leephillips 3y agoI watched the first 2:51 or so of the keynote. The guy made a series of assertions that he seemed to think were self-evident. I disagreed with every one, without exception. I gave up when he described the LLM as “artificial intelligence”. I don’t think I’ll be a customer.
- tamimio 3y ago> rabbit OS operates apps on our secured cloud, so you don’t have to Absolutely Not!
- 1shooner 3y agoIt's ok, all you authenticated accounts are protected by trust me bro.
- starkparker 3y agohttps://www.rabbit.tech/rabbit-os https://www.rabbit.tech/rabbit-os: > Record your actions, explain them with your voice, and play them to rabbit OS. LAM will learn the nuances and create a rabbit that can be applied to various scenarios. > What if you create a rabbit that could be useful to others? You can monetize and distribute it on our upcoming rabbit store. This is neat right up until "monetize", where everything flips from being a potentially cool community group of reproducible actions, to a pile of spam and bot-generated bullshit
- tamimio 3y agoNext on tiktok: How I became a millionaire from this device selling my bot!! Link in bio!!
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- alkonaut 3y agoI'm not talking to computers still. It's a border I just can't cross. Like I'd literally rather stop and type on my car display than try to voice in a destination. And I'd if I'm cooking and my hands are greasy wash my hands and pick up my phone and tap in a timer for 5 minutes rather than try some "set timer for 5 minutes" voice command. Not sure I ever will start talking to computers, but not this year at least. Anyone else feel the same way? It's part because in public it feels extremely dumb. But mostly I think it's the frustration. At least fumbling on touchscreen characters is a known frustration. Trying to voice-in a Scandinavian street name is worse.
- spacemadness 3y agoI set timers while cooking with speech all the time and I don’t see why that seems weird to you. I just think of it like some natural language parser helping me do something instead of talking to myself. Is it talking to yourself you find strange?
- sbarre 3y agoFunny you say this, using Siri to set timers when cooking was my "gateway drug" to using voice features on my phone more broadly. For the longest time it was literally the only thing I used Siri for (cooking timers), but now I use Siri for setting reminders and other similar transactional stuff on my phone, and I use voice dictation for texts all the time in the car, and even sometimes when I'm walking in the cold and just don't want to take my gloves off.. And it works great. And it doesn't feel weird at all.
- triyambakam 3y agoI agree that it's really dumb, especially in public.
- sbarre 3y agoI respect your feeling/position on this, but I don't understand it... What feels "dumb" about it? Is the perception of others towards you when you do this? Because that ship has sailed, people Vlog on the sidewalk and do TikTok videos in the subway, and Facetime their mom or brother at the grocery store or in the mall and have long video conversations with each other out loud.. I'm not saying this to be dismissive. As a GenX'er it took me a while to normalize this behaviour even to myself, but I've accepted now that these kinds of interactions with devices are just everyday occurrences and literally no one cares. They can be obnoxious for sure, but just using TTS/Siri on your phone is like the nicest version of this interaction I can imagine. ;-)
- karmakaze 3y agoWhy does this have to be a competing device? It can do it all on a web page. For that matter put it all in a watch and lose the smartphone.
- karmakaze 3y agoIn case I'm not making sense, imagine if OpenAI made an iOS/Android app with subscription, what chance does a new piece of hardware have to compete against that low-friction install base? Only after getting the users should smartphones be replaced with a bespoke device. The only need for doing the device first is if the service is effectively commoditized so need to differentiate somehow.
- ark4n 3y agoMost people won't want to carry multiple devices, and I doubt people will sacrifice their existing phone. When Apple implement something remotely similar to this into iOS (WWDC this year, anyone?), it will likely render products like this obsolete. Honourable mention, Teenage Engineering crushing it with the hardware, as usual.
- etoxin 3y agoAppears that only people from the northern hemisphere can order this, Shame.
- canucker2016 3y agoSpecifically, from https://www.rabbit.tech/faq https://www.rabbit.tech/faq: (US buyers get priority) ==== Do you ship outside of the United States? Yes, we currently sell to customers in the United States, Canada, United Kingdom, certain countries in the European Union (Denmark, France, Germany, Ireland, Italy, Netherlands, Spain, Sweden), Korea, and Japan. We will ship r1 devices only to mailing addresses in those countries/jurisdictions. When will my r1 be shipped? We expect to begin shipping r1 to US addresses for Pre-Sale Purchases in March-April 2024. Shipping to non-US addresses for international orders and fulfillment of Pre-Orders are expected to begin later in 2024,but we do not have a more definite estimate at this time. Shipping estimates are subject to change based on our manufacturing capacity and component availability. An exact shipping date is not available beyond the expected shipping window listed above. Please be assured that we will fulfill orders as quickly as possible in the order they were received. We will update this FAQ page with regard to shipping within the United States and shipping for international orders with the latest information on shipping window estimates as soon as we have that information. ====
- ojbyrne 3y agoI was going to spend some time criticizing/ridiculing this ("analog scroll wheel" in the feature list made me lol) but then I saw the price. $200? Maybe.
- yzydserd 3y agoI store the playdate in one sock. I can store this in the paired sock for a few hours of light per year.
- mathewsanders 3y agoIt’s a really interesting product that I’m not going to buy! Declarative interfaces that allow you to describe what you want and use agents to go out to different services and chain them together is a cool idea: I don’t want to spend time using dozens of different apps with different (often poorly designed) interfaces. Having a push to talk hardware button instead seems less clunky than a “hey siri” key phrase (I use Siri dozens of times a day but unfortunately ‘raise to talk’ feature on Apple Watch has never worked well for me). I’m curious how their LAM works with interfaces being updated- if they need to retrain with UI updates or if it’s flexible enough to be stable with UI changes and new features etc. I currently use ChatGTP sessions to dive into various topics I’m interested in, and explore ideas- I do like the idea of dedicated hardware that would allow this, but it’s something I imagine I’d keep on the coffee table at home, I don’t want to get a dedicated SIM and data connection or carry around another device. They’ve raised $30M and I wish them well, I hope they survive and have me as a customer in the future.
- cfr2023 3y ago[flagged]
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- Calamityjanitor 3y agoThis is exactly what Siri wanted to be. Compare with the original Siri keynote https://vimeo.com/5424527 https://vimeo.com/5424527 I can't find the exact ~2010 article from before being bought by Apple. I remember in an interview they were talking about making a web agent that could operate and perform tasks on any website, to avoid being locked out by APIs.
- wkat4242 3y agoYeah it's sad that Siri stagnated as soon as Apple bought it. They had some great ideas.
- yreg 3y agoI'm very interested in what Apple does with LLMs on iDevices. They have the right hardware for it and they have all the motivation, with their focus on on-device processing. OTOH they also have a pretty bad history with their AI assistant.
- anentropic 3y agoThey should have been building this instead of Vision Pro white elephant
- F7F7F7 3y agoThey could buy OpenAI two times with just their cash on hand. This isn’t a case where they had to choose one or the other (not saying that you’re saying that). It seems like they were genuinely caught off guard. They let almost the entire original Siri team walk didn’t they?
- gffrd 3y agoI've been surprised that Apple hasn't done more to keep pushing beyond the app boundary. The primary pitch for Rabbit from the keynote is basically "it's a layer that sits atop the broken model of modern phones." I think we all agree that the 'evolved state' of phones and apps is disappointing compared to where it could be / where we expected it would go. They (Apple) are now in the position of being seen as laggards, caught with their pants down by companies releasing products whose core conceits are built atop inefficiency of their "core" models. For both Humane and Rabbit, it's hard for me to imagine that there's enough "there" there for these to be beyond niche products that don't get starved out by the border-expansion of Apple / Android over the next few years … but I would have also guessed that A+A would have been further out front of this.
- lbotos 3y agoThis is HN... so what OS do we think this is running? Android under the hood? Anyone know more about hardware or screen res? I wonder how hard it would be to root this device and use it for the hardware.
- com2kid 3y agoYou can browse their job listings and see the device is running AOSP.
- canucker2016 3y agoSince Teenage Engineering has been mentioned as a design partner, I'd look at the specs for the Playdate and give it a spec bump. Based on the rabbit keynote showing a colour screen - take a Playdate device, turn 90 degrees counterclockwise and reduce the height-now-width since you don't need a controller, just a roller wheel, pushbutton, and rotating camera. Quick web search states a Playdate device has a 168MHz ARM Cortex M7 and a 400x240 LCD B&W screen.
- snvzz 3y agoPlaydate seemed interesting, until I read the words "proprietary SDK". Hell no. This is no better than a gameboy or whatever the current Nintendo console is.
- numpad0 3y agoEither some sort of Linux with custom GUI, OR bone-stock AOSP + custom app. If I were in some sort of CTO role I'd push AOSP route, as an individual dreaming idealist I'd be inclined towards the former.
- qwertox 3y agoI'd prefer it as an app. I already have the hardware and there'd be no need for an additional card in the data plan.
- rhinoceraptor 3y agoThe hardware device itself is a bit of a red herring. It's really a server-side LLM that is trained to use software on your behalf, presumably against server-side Android/Chrome VMs that you authenticate to various apps/services with OAuth. At first it seems a bit like a kludge, but I don't really see any other way to create the dream sci-fi robot assistant. It has to be able to do things as you, and it would be impossible to manually integrate with every website or service.
- ukuina 3y agoPut this way, $199 seems overpriced!
- rhinoceraptor 3y agoIt doesn't cover that many months of expensive GPU compute and Chrome VMs, though. The "No Subscription" promise is very dubious unless this is a play for selling user data.
- jmull 3y agoI'm not sure people want an LLM assistant that can actually do things like spend their money. A minor convenience when it works well. A major inconvenience when it doesn't. (And it doesn't take a lot of imagination to come up with nightmare scenarios.) Love the gadget, though. I feel like I want to eat it or build a Lego castle around it, or just look at it more.
- nabakin 3y agoThey have a confirmation dialogue in the keynote. As long as they do that well and for every important action, I don't think it will be a problem
- rcarmo 3y agoFunny thing that the keynote only demoed “Confirm” and never “Correct”/“Change this”, etc.
- gigglesupstairs 3y agoMay be because "change this" is vague and more of a broad function and may need more clarifications. Users may have more clearer commands, like "cancel this", "I don't like this, provide an alternative" or "can you go back one step?" etc. User can just speak those requests out loud since device is listening.
- nabakin 3y agoAbsolutely and that will be a major usability problem when LLMs get things wrong as they so often do
- qup 3y agoAt one point he asked for a more relaxed version of the initial vacation plans.
- jmull 3y agoHow do you know the LLM is going to do what you confirmed? There's a fundamental tension here: either you limit the LLM to a set of fixed actions that a user can individually understand and confirm. Or you let it figure out what to do and how to do it given a higher-level goal. In the first case, it's limited and not really better than a well-designed site or app. In the second it's powerful but can run amok. E.g., did it really fill out that four page order form for that e-bike you asked it to order? Maybe it uses the debit card instead of your credit card and your checking account is overdrawn. Maybe it sets the delivery address to your brother's address. Maybe it orders two bikes or 10 or the wrong model or wrong size. OR It asks/confirms each step of the way so there's little chance for mistakes. This is an inherent problem with any kind of delegation. You either micro manage the details or trust your agent to get them right.
- amadeuspagel 3y agoWhat's the advantage of this vs a smartphone? Realistically, are you going to carry two gadgets with you? I feel like a lot of people don't like the smartphone, because, being a general purpose computer, it takes away the excuse to buy all sorts of different gadgets.
- dstaley 3y agoFollow up question: why does this need dedicated hardware? What does a dedicated $200 device do that the same app running on a smartphone can’t?
- ZiiS 3y agoEnsure you are invested $200 in using it. Very few will pay that for an App.
- bronco21016 3y agoYet people readily pay $99/year for apps all the time. I think the reason this isn’t an app is because the gate keepers don’t want competition. Looking at you Siri.
- amadeuspagel 3y agoOn android, you can set different apps as default assistant, and ChatGPT is working on that: https://www.androidauthority.com/chatgpt-replace-google-assistant-3399920/ https://www.androidauthority.com/chatgpt-replace-google-assi...
- wkat4242 3y agoDo they really? I don't even pay that much for my entire O365 suite. The most expensive app I pay for is Telegram Premium at 30$ per year. And that's really worth it for me for the translation otherwise I would have thought twice.
- drcode 3y agohaving a purpose built device reduces number of clicks and other friction. currently phones are hostile to AI interaction (not that I'm entertaining this specific device)
- rmah 3y agoI can't even tell what that gadget is for. I can't tell what it does. There is nothing about what it can do for me (or anyone for that matter).
- nabakin 3y agoThere's a keynote which explains it pretty well. It's basically a cheap phone focused 100% around an LLM assistant
- nabakin 3y agoI can't see this product outcompeting Apple, Google, Samsung, etc. At best, if it gets enough interest, it will be copied and improved like what happened with Pebble and smart watches
- elliotpage 3y agoI scrolled the webste twice but I cannot figure out what this object is for?
- paxys 3y agoYou have to watch a 30 minute keynote to find out, which is bizarre. No thanks..
- squarefoot 3y agoThis is pretty much what everyone saw coming when LLM became a reality: that is, eliminating the usual human-machine interface because now the machine can understand what we say and instructing it through keypresses and clicks becomes unnecessary. In a few years everyone will carry a device like this one, and "call Jim, the one I met the other day, not my brother" or "start writing an email to all my associates" etc. will become a reality, and visual interfaces will be relegated to contexts where we actually want visual interaction, such as photos, movies, games, etc. All cool, but unfortunately there's a catch: a device that can run AI locally and connect to the Internet without depending on a proprietary cloud, as of today can't fit in a pocket and can't cost $199, therefore it will depend on services that will have a cost in money and privacy. Also, since this is looks like nothing more than an audio/video interface to a remote cloud AI, everything it does can be replicated on a smartphone app.
- paxys 3y ago> In a few years everyone will carry a device like this one, and ... Yes, but that device is a smartphone. I can't see a future in which standalone devices that are simply ChatGPT API shells are actually viable, unless they add some significant capabilities that a phone app or built-in phone assistant doesn't have.
- imiric 3y agoA smartphone is still too difficult to use and confusing for many people. There is a large market of users that would benefit from AI tools if it can be packaged in a user-friendly way. This is the first device I've seen that seems to succeed at this, if their keynote can be trusted. Not to mention the price. This is a fifth of the price of most flagship smartphones.
- cal85 3y agoI mostly agree but think you underestimate the “contexts where we actually want visual interaction” - a screen is not just for consuming visual media. It might be that all input is spoken, but output will always need a screen, because spoken word is just incredibly low bandwidth compared to a good text layout. Imagine an order confirmation page for a complex food delivery order, where you’ve made a couple of item modifications and you’re using a promotional deal for a discount on the total price. You can take in all that info in 2 seconds if it’s nicely laid out on a screen. Compare that to having to listen carefully to a voice reciting it all for you. And same goes for things like just browsing other songs by the same artist you’re listening to. Text on a screen, with good typographical layout for fast mental processing, will still be the best output format for many use cases.
- cwrichardkim 3y agoI think the interesting bit here is actually the teachable mode (19:30 in the vid): https://youtu.be/22wlLy7hKP4?t=1174 https://youtu.be/22wlLy7hKP4?t=1174 there are tools that exist that teach agents what to do, but the ability to have them on command and return a nice little summary in a neat UI is actually kind of compelling. It also feeds the company routine information to fine tune agents and maybe results in a dev ecosystem of some kind? need to learn more about how the system prevents some of the concerns hear like taking undesirable actions on your behalf
- rcarmo 3y agoIf Siri worked like this, it would have fulfilled its intended purpose.
- cloverich 3y agoIt's a bit hard to imagine this doesn't get eaten by Siri and the like. The main issue with bots like Siri is they are very stupid. But w/ ChatGPT, the tech is now available to fix that.
- dvt 3y agoI feel like the R1 is getting a lot of weird hate here on HN. I get it, it's a bit pretentious and wants to be very Apple-like, yadda yadda. Probably not that much value generation, it's overpriced, and no one wants to carry another thing in their pocket. And yes, the company will likely go bankrupt (or pivot into something less exciting). It's also all in the cloud (no local inference) so it doesn't really even "do" that much. But seriously: this is (or should be) the future of computing. The fact that things like OS self-organization, system-wide (+cloud) search, basic automation, etc. is so broken on modern operating systems is just plain bizarre. For example, if I wanted to do a simple find-and-replace on my 2021 M1, I'd have to use something like grep (a tool originally written by Ken Thompson in 1973—a half century before my laptop was built) and look up flags and syntax I inevitably constantly forget. We should have been past this at least 15 years ago.
- danso 3y ago> * For example, if I wanted to do a simple find-and-replace on my 2021 M1, I'd have to use something like grep (a tool originally written by Ken Thompson in 1973—a half century before my laptop was built) and look up flags and syntax I inevitably constantly forget. We should have been past this at least 15 years ago.* What does the oldness (and long usefulness) of grep have to do with the problem you described, which is the very hard problem of translating natural human speech into machine commands?
- anentropic 3y ago100% agree all these points!
- hkkevinchow 3y agoI think the hate is that the website and the promotion videos are too advanced to the point where there were no MVPs, progress, or found limitations in between. On the other hand, the terms they used are too strong to be true. Are they building an OS from the ground up, or just calling ChatGPT API to do stuff and calling it an OS? And of course, looking at Linkedin, the founder(s) are NOT convincing either.
- andybak 3y ago
- thecrumb 3y agoAll I really saw is an awkward looking device (sorry TE) that probably wouldn't fit in my pocket, and would probably break if dropped. And whatever they paid for the keynote was a waste of money. If you can't explain how this works in about 30 seconds - I don't care.
- mondrian 3y ago[dead]
- Darthy 3y agoIn the linked keynote, Jesse Lyu mentions that LLM won't help us actually do tasks - there are currently no so-called "agents" that do something simple like book a flight - the best way to do it is still to click the buttons yourself. Rabbit means to solve that by creating a "LAM", a "Large Action model", which is a service by Rabbit that will click interfaces for you. I'm not sure this is the right approach - if it is successful, it will lead to more centralisation around Rabbit. I agree this is a problem, but I feel a better approach would be to have a market of agents that for a small fee actually handle the whole transaction for you. So there might be multiple parties that say they can buy Delta Flight DL101 tomorrow 21:10 for various prices - some might be a service like the Rabbit LAM, others might be booking platforms, and there might even be airlines themselves. And now an agent-concierge that you choose once at the start will look at all the parties, and then pick and buy the right flight for you. This will make the problem a problem of an open market, where good speedy service is promoted, and prices get ever lower. And if the Rabbit LAM gets outcompeted by an ever better speedier solution, that would be a good thing. (This will also allow us to move away from our current dreaded attention-based economy where e.g. a booking websites tries to exploit your required presence during waiting times, which the LAMs would also solve, but, like I said, let's not move towards more centralisation.)
- abrichr 3y ago> Rabbit means to solve that by creating a "LAM", a "Large Action model", which is a service by Rabbit that will click interfaces for you. https://openadapt.ai https://openadapt.ai is an open source app that runs on your local machine that clicks interfaces for you -— but only for repetitive tasks that you show it how to do.
- F7F7F7 3y agoQA teams have been doing this sort of stuff for decades. With a little know how and an hour you could record a user doing something in the DOM and play it back. There’s no magic here.
- msephton 3y agoBut if we're not careful this will circle back to apps/silos. What I'd like to see is the Smalltalk approach: data providers that are able to send/receive messages, and can be connected together to achieve a goal. Even better if the connecting is done by the "machine" after I issue a command.
- TheCleric 3y agoThis is never going to work for me because I don’t want to talk to my computer. When I’m in public my voice is noise pollution at best and is telling everyone around me what I’m doing at worst. Call me weird but I don’t want everyone around me essentially hearing every thought I’m looking up in real time. Feels creepy.
- jareklupinski 3y agowatching the keynote, I was about to click Buy until I saw all the steps that required a laptop... i feel a revolution shouldnt require so much tethering to other services through the hardware you are looking to replace? if they keep iterating towards a truly standalone product, I think they'll hit all the notes we've been waiting for from a post-cellphone portable device or can I make an AI agent to set it up for me :)
- genman 3y agoWhat ever it is but this website is completely unusable on Firefox.
- BoppreH 3y agoThe keynote is near science fiction, but the actual implementation is leaving me badly confused. - Did it really scan the whole table to add a new column? As in, OCR? What would happen if I had more than one screenful of data, and who in their right mind would trust the OCR'ed output? - How can it access the Discord account for the "teach mode"? Is it stealing your (sensitive and expiring!) cookies to reproduce the actions on their cloud? Or worse yet, running instructions from the AI on your local machine? - It shows structured results from Spotify and Uber on the r1's screen. Does it have custom integration with all those apps? What happens when the API changes (Twitter), or they don't support an app I need (local taxi), or the app is averse to third-party integration (WhatsApp), or I need an "advanced" feature (payment methods on Uber)? - Why in the VC hell are they basing their revenue on a one-time sale of a clearly unnecessary electronic gadget (my phone already has all that!), when their biggest variable costs will be recurring cloud expenses?
- whywhywhywhy 3y ago> It shows structured results from Spotify and Uber on the r1's screen. Does it have custom integration with all those apps? Yeah there is a screenshot of a list of logins floating around, uber and spotify were on it. Wouldn't be too interested in having it logging in to my account on a cloud machine on other things.
- namanyayg 3y ago> How can it access the Discord account for the "teach mode"? Is it stealing your (sensitive and expiring!) cookies to reproduce the actions on their cloud? Or worse yet, running instructions from the AI on your local machine? That's what I caught too. It mentioned somewhere on their site that you'll have to provide login credentials through their Rabbit Hole dashboard panel of all services you want to use. It breaks the services' ToS but I guess most people don't care much about giving their passwords. There's no other practical way to integrate with multiple services.
- theamk 3y ago> who in their right mind would trust the OCR'ed output? > Is it stealing your (sensitive and expiring!) cookies > running instructions from the AI on your local machine Based on my interaction with LLM enthusiasts, there are plenty of people would happily bet their career, give up all their credentials, and grant full access to all their devices to LLM if they are promised something cool. See the stories about lawyers giving LLM-generated materials to the judge for an example, or journalists submitting LLM-generated articles. Yes, this occasionally ruins someone's day. No, this would not stop true enthusiast from trusting the model again.
- angryasian 3y agoIts interesting but not all apps or services offer integrations. You still have a problem with oauth and logging in.
- Ecko123 3y ago[dead]
- serf 3y agothe keynote failed me at "Shake the device to create a keyboard on the screen". if the whole damn point of suffering with your goofy wildly colored mostly-incompatible mobile device is a talkable LLM, then "shake to keyboard" is a failure. at $200 i'd rather just buy any of the plethora of sbc mini devices with cell phone antennas and play with LLMs myself without the black box that I can't touch. a uconsole or similar is , generally speaking, cheaper AND open-ish -- it's a fool's errand to trust a non-paid subscription service to continue existing.
- trunnell 3y agoRed flags: 1) Price seems too low for unlimited LLM usage and there's no monthly fee... so maybe you are the product? 2) Website has no information on the people behind this. 3) In the keynote, the demo of logging into to other services like Spotify appears to just be stealing the auth tokens from the laptop and shipping them to the R1 device. Not a good sign. 4) The founder's voice-over insists that "we value privacy" and "we do not hack" and "we do not create fake users." Protests too much? 5) They're not really addressing the trust-building necessary to convince people to use this like a personal assistant. It's waaaay too opaque. Neat product, though. Maybe they're just launching super early, nothing is figured out yet, the website isn't done, etc.
- bArray 3y ago> 1) Price seems too low for unlimited LLM usage and there's no monthly fee... so maybe you are the product? It only needs to last a few months until all the devices are palmed off to kids. There is a 0% chance this makes it to year 2. > 2) Website has no information on the people behind this. All the better to run with the money. Given there won't be a second device, they should have charged more. I suspect they charged less because it simply performs _that_ poorly. > 3) In the keynote, the demo of logging into to other services like Spotify appears to just be stealing the auth tokens from the laptop and shipping them to the R1 device. Not a good sign. It's worse, it's not processed locally at all. That means that it's all done in some random cloud. > 4) The founder's voice-over insists that "we value privacy" and "we do not hack" and "we do not create fake users." Protests too much? I've never murdered anybody and there's no point looking in the forest!
- gumballindie 3y ago> 1) Price seems too low for unlimited LLM usage and there's no monthly fee... so maybe you are the product? With AI you are always the product - how else can it be "trained".
- fillskills 3y agoTHIS - pricing and security/privacy. Specially #1,2,3. Saying this despite ordering one. There is definitely a lot of scope to this new way to interacting. Really hoping these get addressed soon.
- fxd123 3y agoThis keynote really makes it seem like a scam. For example the "plan travel" section hardly shows anything. He just says "It's all been planned out, I just confirm, confirm, confirm..."- while the camera cuts to him tapping the device without showing anything on the screen.
- computerliker 3y agoThe device itself is really cute. I'm not sure about handing oauth tokens to all my accounts to a third party for them to run huginn/selenium on a backend that might not be online for more than a year. I'm barely comfortable with Alexa having a connection to my iTunes for podcasts. What happens when Uber or whoever decides to throw a captcha between Rabbit and the web frontend? I'd like to see it do more than help me buy things. Teach mode seems to be the main way to do productivity tasks? https://github.com/huginn/huginn https://github.com/huginn/huginn
- gaoryrt 3y agoHe is the founder of RavenTech. Baidu acquired RavenTech and he became the leader of Baidu's smart hardware division, and then launched the Raven H, which you may have heard of. https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2017/11/16/16664846/teenage-engineering-h-smart-speaker-r-robot-arm https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2017/11/16/16664846/...
- thebradbain 3y agoThat’s actually really helpful context, and absolutely swayed the needle from “no track record vaporware company salesman” to “maybe he actually has the experience to pull this off”
- mhuesler 3y agoThe AI first OS is a step in the right direction. I just don't think that a new device in this format is necessary yet. Regardless - I'm missing visual feedback in the current version. It's too open-ended so a list of suggestions on what to do would be helpful for example. Overall pretty cool MVP tho. Excited to see what's next!
- dang 3y agoOther links for figuring out what this is: https://www.theverge.com/2024/1/9/24030667/rabbit-r1-ai-action-model-price-release-date https://www.theverge.com/2024/1/9/24030667/rabbit-r1-ai-acti... (via https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38933819 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38933819, but no comments there) https://techcrunch.com/2024/01/09/can-a-striking-design-set-rabbits-r1-pocket-ai-apart-from-a-gaggle-of-virtual-assistants/ https://techcrunch.com/2024/01/09/can-a-striking-design-set-... (via https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38932575 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38932575, but no comments there) https://www.tomsguide.com/reviews/rabbit-r1 https://www.tomsguide.com/reviews/rabbit-r1
- krazydad 3y agoThe most troublesome part of this demo for me was the one tablespoon of mayo it wanted you to add to your vegetable omelet. Yikes.
- alabhyajindal 3y agoNot having a subscription is shocking. I really like the device and LAM sounds promising. I just don't see how they are going to make money offering unlimited LLM + LAM capabilities without a subscription service.
- crakhamster01 3y agoThis is a pretty neat device. I think they might be more successful if they targeted the anti-smartphone crowd, but I can see why they would want to chase the bigger market. Lyu hit the nail on the head when he said that smartphones are mostly for entertainment/wasting time these days. I definitely know of friends who want to (or try to) go smartphone free, but the apps mentioned in the keynote make it a large inconvenience. A $200 device that offers much of the convenience of a smartphone without the distraction sounds like a good fit for that crowd.
- amne 3y agoI don't think he touched the scroll wheel in the keynote. Why is it there? What does it do? I found it awkward he scrolled by touching the screen across the damn scroll wheel. Just use it. At least in the keynote. And then there are so many questions about the hardware capabilities of this device: - where is the inference running? I don't believe it's on the device. And if it's in the cloud then why make the claim it is under 500ms? Is that just a "don't you guys have low-latency 4g at home?" moment? - how is that tiny camera capable of parsing a small-text table with 100% accuracy? the optics just don't allow it to. - what's the battery life with that kind of usage? If inference is running on device it must be very low. Just thinking that my GPU pulls 50-100W on average (with spikes to 200W) just to suggest code I still don't think rabbit is doing anything on device. If it's cloud based then 4g is also a battery destroyer. Maybe that's why the device is so big: huge battery inside. The "teach" session was definitely cool. But at this point it must be magic because there's no way that thing browsed to a discord server, authenticated with hallucinated credentials and it just worked.
- whywhywhywhy 3y ago>I don't think he touched the scroll wheel in the keynote. Why is it there? Same vibe as Humane not using the projector for almost anything and then explicitly saying "You dont have to use it" in an interview. Like why add it then
- FireInsight 3y agoFrom > rabbit OS operates apps on our secured cloud, so you don’t have to. Log into the apps you’d like rabbit to use on your system through the rabbit hole to relay control. You only need to do this once per app. it seems that this device doesn't run anything locally, everything is in the cloud.
- com2kid 3y ago> it seems that this device doesn't run anything locally, everything is in the cloud. For apps w/o a web interface, presumably they have an Android emulator running somewhere and they controlling it with their LAM and feeding the results back to end users. They can even feed sensor data from the Rabbit phone (e.g. GPS) to the emulator. It is a brilliant solution to the problems they are facing, but their cost model must be extreme. "No subscription required" means I am wondering what their "pay as you go" pricing will be!
- WesolyKubeczek 3y agoTo summarize, it’s a pocket piece of e-waste.
- mschwarz 3y agoI want this to be legit, but I fear we’ve entered the ICO phase of the AI boom
- bluecrab 3y agoIf it's relying on the cloud then you're better off using an app on your phone.
- chernoby 3y agoi confused, why don't you just create an app
- z61a 3y agoseems too good to be true. Uber, doordash, and travel planning are too fast to be true...
- kuter 3y agoFew points: - Not sure if people would want to "talk to" a device in public. - Anything and more that this device do can be done by a smart phone that people already have. - I feel like people prefer using a UI interface instead of speech.An example to this behavior might be using delivery apps instead of calling a restaurant. - Looks too wide to fit into most pockets.
- freediver 3y agoI too thought that was the problem, but th emovie "Her" made it look like it is not going to be.
- lamfm95 3y agoIt feels like a gimmick to me. The response speed is just too slow
- eurekin 3y agoTheranos resemblance is off the charts
- andy_ppp 3y agoYes, of course a hardware startup have a better product than Open AI. Definitely not an entirely faked demo… my suggestion is that this will not happen for 5 years at least.
- rabbit-vibrator 3y agoThe website - looks like its trying to emualte apple. The key note = The speakers hand movements and gestures are funny, emualting apple again. The demo of the device, faked. Funny - When it switches cameras back to the guy holding the device and hes just nodding, looks totally fake... all in all.. fake and trying to copy apple. Can't people be original anymore? Is this an early April fools?
- gandalfthepink 3y agomeh!