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DoorDash raises minimum pay to $29.93 per hour in NYC

• jimbok 3y ago
  "As always 100% of tips go to dashers" lol it was "as always" definitely remember reading that DD kept couriers tips...
  • ejstronge 3y ago
    They used tips (and may still use tips) to refund themselves for the minimum pay offered to dashers. The language was very deceptive, as giving a tip did not always increase the amount of money received by a dasher.
    • onlyrealcuzzo 3y ago
      I thought they got the tip if they got more than the minimum pay in tips. Otherwise, DD used the tip to pay them. Meaning - if you somehow work one job and it takes an entire hour - and you got a $10 tip - you would only make $29, not $29 + $10x1 = $39. If you worked 1 hour and did 5 jobs - each with $10 tips - you would get paid $50 - not $29 + $10x5 = $79.
      • Justsignedup 3y ago
        so my understanding is: don't tip on doordash after this. This means that the actual cost will be included in the work. I'm all for it. I hate tips, it is arbitrary and terrible.
      • squeaky-clean 3y ago
        There was a lot of backlash when it was revealed DoorDash was taking tips like the method you stated. Now they give the entire tip to the driver regardless of minimum pay. OP was making a joke that no, it's not "as always" because there wqs a pretty large scandal just a few years ago centered around DoorDash not paying 100% of tips.
    • quickthrower2 3y ago
      Can’t beat cash for appreciation money.
    • filoleg 3y ago
      > They used tips (and may still use tips) to refund themselves for the minimum pay offered to dashers. Not trying to make a stance one way or another, just wanted to make sure I understand what you meant by this correctly. Is what you are describing essentially the same way it works in the restaurant industry for waiters/servers? TLDR: waiters/servers in the US typically have a base pay that’s below the minimum wage, but they get to keep all the tips. However, if a waiter/server at the end of their pay period makes less with their base pay+tips than what the minimum wage for the area would be, the employer is legally on the hook for making up the difference to the employee.
      • toast0 3y ago
        > TLDR: waiters/servers typically have a base pay that’s below the minimum wage, but they get to keep all the tips. However, if a waiter/server at the end of their pay period makes less with their base pay+tips than what the minimum wage for the area would be, the employer is legally on the hook for making up the difference to the employee. I believe that's the federal rule, but several states with higher than federal minimum wages have a uniform minimum wage for tipped and non-tipped workers. If I'm reading the chart correctly[1], those states/territories include Alaska, California, Guam, Minnesota, Montana, Nevada, Oregon, and Washington. [1] https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped
      • ejstronge 3y ago
        It would seem to be the same - but also restaurant workers likely don’t hit the minimums frequently, since the kitchen would probably be unprofitable to run in settings where front of house are only making $3/hr.
  • dangrossman 3y ago
    Briefly, in 2019, until it made the news and the policy was changed so that drivers kept 100% of tips. There's more nuance than "DD was keeping tips", but plenty already written about that if you care to find the 2019 articles.
    • ryaneager 3y ago
      It’s not more nuanced they were skimming tips and got caught.
      • mrguyorama 3y ago
        Some programmer wrote that statement in the code, wrote the function that was given a tip amount and a driver profile and reduced the tip amount to give the driver under certain circumstances. Someone cut that ticket, brought it up in a grooming session, people asked and answered questions about exactly when a driver's pay should be docked. Other devs probably approved the PR. I bet it even has a clear and concise comment explaining the math and the business purpose. I bet there's a unit test about "do_not_overpay_driver_with_tip". Jesus I bet they all came onto HN and bitched about taxes and Unions after.
      • Sohcahtoa82 3y ago
        This 100%. They were stealing tips. Full stop. If a driver would be paid $5 for a delivery, and the customer tipped $5, the driver should receive $10. But what was effectively happening instead was that the pay would be reduced by the tip amount to as low as $2. So now that delivery would actually pay $2 plus the $5 for a total of $7. On longer range deliveries that might pay $10, the customer could tip $8 and the driver would still only make $10. Now, from what I understand, DD no longer does this practice and legitimately gives the entire tipped amount to the driver with no reduction in pay from DD, but DD lowered the base delivery pay to compensate. At the time, IIRC, DD tried to wordsmith what they were doing to not make it sound like they were stealing tips, and instead was simply subsidizing poor tippers with a higher base pay and acting like the keeping of the tip was just the removal of the poor-tip subsidy. I say to-may-toe, you say to-mah-toe, it's bullshit. They were stealing tips.
  • deleted 3y ago
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• Panini_Jones 3y ago
  DoorDash sent out an email yesterday informing customers of the changes. They only mentioned that tipping was moving to after the checkout step, but nothing else. I simultaneously decided to stop ordering DoorDash yesterday; I've been gaining too much weight recently and spending too much money.
• forgingahead 3y ago
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  • toomuchtodo 3y ago
    Living wage > consumer excess. Walk to the restaurant if you can't afford it.
    • dangrossman 3y ago
      The sick and disabled greatly value the advent of delivery apps. Not all who use them can reasonably "just pick it up yourself".
      • squokko 3y ago
        What did they do before DoorDash?
        • deleted 3y ago
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        • SoftTalker 3y ago
          Meals-on-Wheels or similar volunteers/charities that deliver meals, groceries, and essential supplies to the disabled and elderly.
      • kiba 3y ago
        If the economic of delivery apps are unviable in the first place, then it's unlikely these services would exist without the funding of venture capitalists.
      • skhr0680 3y ago
        Someone at the top should be paying for that, not someone at the bottom
      • toomuchtodo 3y ago
        So the suffering of the sick and disabled is of higher value (by some measure) than that of DoorDash gig workers? Why not both? DoorDash can have less profits, and government can provide some support, and everyone comes out ahead except shareholders getting a bit less return (oh noes) and management having lower comp (again, oh noes). These are the people doing the actual work. You are pitting the wrong socioeconomic strata against each other via your argument.
• pseg134 3y ago
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• koolba 3y ago
  > Dashers who deliver in NYC will now earn at least $29.93 per hour of active time, nearly twice NYC’s $15 minimum wage for other workers. What’s a realistic amount of “active time” per hour? I’m assuming waiting for a job is not active time right? > These new regulations will force us to raise fees for orders in New York City. In order to better balance the impact of these new costs, we’re moving the option to tip in the DoorDash app to after checkout. So hiding the tip until after closing the sale to pretend the total price is cheaper? Very classy. What’s funny is that the tip should come after the service is complete if it’s actually a tip for good service (otherwise how did you know what service you got?). But they’re clearly just trying to hide the true price.
  • ketzo 3y ago
    Wow I totally missed the “active” part, thanks for pointing that out. Would love to hear from someone with actual DD experience what percentage of time is “active,” and what you have to do to keep that time high?
    • koolba 3y ago
      > Wow I totally missed the “active” part, thanks for pointing that out. Years of less than honest players have taught me to read press releases like a lawyer redlining a contract. Every last word is in there for a reason.
    • wizardwes 3y ago
      Dashed for 3 years, it's highly variable. I probably averaged 50% or less tbh. Also, un-tipped orders are weighted more into the pay-by-time in my experience, since you can't say no. It also means you can't avoid slow/bad restaurants, or unsafe/low-tipping neighborhoods.
  • hoten 3y ago
    They should be forced to be honest and call it a bid, not a tip.
    • FriedPickles 3y ago
• dangrossman 3y ago
  "Tips" were effectively bids for service under the old model, as they were paid before the service was performed and determined whether a driver felt it worthwhile to accept that order. Now DoorDash will have to dynamically figure out how much to charge the customer to both interest drivers and meet this minimum pay requirement. I'm interested in seeing how it turns out.
  • pcl 3y ago
    The press release says they're paid "after checkout". I assume that that means immediately after payment of what appeared to be the price, but still before receipt.
  • deleted 3y ago
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  • SheinhardtWigCo 3y ago
    It wasn’t even that - just extra money for DoorDash, because they would increase their portion of the offer to compensate for a lower “tip”.
• dontcontactme 3y ago
  Interested in how they count hours - are the only hours counted the hours where you are actively picking up / delivering an order? Or are employees also compensated for time spent waiting/looking for orders?
• 19f191ty 3y ago
  Assuming a delivery worker works 5 hours a day for 5 days a week, that's roughly 35,916 usd. As a PhD student that hits hard.
  • wenc 3y ago
    As a former PhD student who made $28k (which was on the higher end, most made $20k) I’d always known there were better paying jobs out there. But I also lived in a LCOL city where my rent was $500 (room in an house with 5 roommates) and I lived super well.
    • 19f191ty 3y ago
      It's not just any job though. Food delivery is amongst the lowest skilled jobs, while research is amongst the highest. Also, good for you that you lived super well But not everyone is comfortable living with 5 roommates.
  • squeaky-clean 3y ago
    That's "active work" though. So you're also going to be spending a lot of extra time sitting in your car waiting for delivery offers to come in. Outside of lunch and dinner hours, you'll probably be spending an equal amount of time idle as you are "active" according to DD.
    • 19f191ty 3y ago
      I'm aware, that's why I counted just 25 (active) hours per week.
      • squeaky-clean 3y ago
        But that 25 active hours per week requires about 50 hours of working. You're just not paid for the 25 hours where you are waiting for an offer to come in. There's only about 3 hours per day when you can consistently get an offer within minutes of finishing one. And don't forget DoorDash doesn't pay for gas or other required maintenance from the extra use on your car.
• gnicholas 3y ago
  > With the changes required by NYC and the impact it will have on our system, we are pausing our Priority Access program, which gives Dashers who have high ratings priority on higher-paying offers. Since Dashers will earn a guaranteed minimum rate, the benefits offered by this program will not apply in NYC. The Top Dasher program is still available for qualified NYC Dashers. So they're guaranteeing higher pay for all workers, and cutting a benefit for their best workers? I wonder what kind of impact this will have. Will this encourage some of these top workers to leave the platform, since they can no longer get access to good orders based on their track record?
  • afavour 3y ago
    On the flip side it might encourage the bulk of drivers to stay with the platform if they were previously denied access to the best jobs.
    • 3462346346 3y ago
      Outside rush hour there's already not enough work in the sense that there will be long periods of waiting for orders in even very large cities. It seems like if anything they could afford to raise standards for the consumer by offering less to lower performing drivers to make contracting unappealing.
  • parthianshotgun 3y ago
    Rising tide lifts all ships. Maybe we'd get better overall throughput and less saturation, though I see where you're coming from. The tips might help no?
  • wizardwes 3y ago
    Trust me when I say, being in those high echelons isn't worth it for a driver. Everyone will be happier with this. Getting a higher rating priority usually means that you lost money, and are just planning to be dashing a ton at a lower quality the next month to offset it. You have to purposefully accept untipped orders at bad ROI restaurants to achieve those numbers.
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• perihelions 3y ago
  I read an interesting article about delivery drivers in NYC, specifically how much of the market was completely unregulated and illegal, and how people work within what functions as an underground economy: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/15/nyregion/migrant-delivery-unlicensed-moped.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/15/nyregion/migrant-delivery... The person doing the work often isn't the person registered with (e.g.) DoorDash. There's a whole economy of middlemen who resell straw buyers' credentials/accounts.
  • have_faith 3y ago
    This obviously happens with Uber also, and to some extent AirBnB. A lot of "super" hosts have someone completely different manage the listing and the host is really just a brand for the listing page at that point.
    • dannyw 3y ago
      That seems less problematic for Airbnb if you’re getting the actual listing as described.
  • markha 3y ago
    This seems to be the case in bay area too. The person delivering the food is not the same person in the DoorDash app. It used to be rare before but not anymore. (sample size of 1, as recent as 2 days ago).
• wouldbecouldbe 3y ago
  Just curious what do you pay in Nyc for delivery? Must be at least 15 dollars then?
  • mushufasa 3y ago
    yep
  • standardUser 3y ago
    It varies by app and they obfuscate the numbers by calling some things delivery fees and others service charges, etc. And they highly incentivize you to subscribe for $10/month to get rid of most of those fees. If you subscribe, you'll pay about $3-$6 in fees (factoring in the subscription cost). Without a subscription, more like $5-$9. Some restaurants will charge even higher delivery fees, like a flat $5 or $10 on top of the app fees, but they are the minority. And then there is the tip, which everyone does differently, but I think/hope most people tip at least $3. I consider $4-$6 to be a good range, though I can't explain why. Some apps encourage bigger tipping with their presets, including percentage tipping (like 10%, 15%, 20%), which could easily be $15 or more if it's from an expensive place. Overall, I'd estimate that most deliveries for 1-2 people cost from $6-$15 in fees + tips. I pay about $8 per delivery based on my ordering and tipping habits.
• 8bitben 3y ago
  The platform fees and the insane menu price markups that restaurants apply for delivery app orders have made it impractical to use Uber Eats & DoorDash for a couple years now IMO. I only ever consider using them when offered at least 50% off. Mandated minimum earnings will benefit the drivers, but that won't help drivers that have to quit the platforms because people stop using them.
  • kiba 3y ago
    They aren't really viable business models to begin with. Only VC funding can keep these online platform up.
    • hotpotamus 3y ago
      I've never really gotten this. We can speculate about the intelligence of VCs, but I assume most of them know a bit of basic math. I wonder if perhaps they are so deep into a bubble of wealth and privilege that to them, spending $50 for a (cold by the time it arrives) burger seemed reasonable. Perhaps they thought that once everyone could experience this for an amount of money they find trifling, it would catch on? I've used these services a time or two just to see what the fuss is about and I don't get it myself.
      • mym1990 3y ago
        The VCs are hoping to hype the product enough in the early stage to achieve a lucrative exit, and do that 10% of the time(or whatever). What happens with the product once the company is public is not of their concern.
      • johnnyanmac 3y ago
        >I've used these services a time or two just to see what the fuss is about and I don't get it myself. It's similar to fast food itself. convenient and cheap. these days the latter is falling off the wayside (again, just like modern fast food). It was invaluable during a pandemic to help encourage social distancing, but even if it was still cheap it was bound to fall off a bit (probably not to pre-pandemic levels, but no longer record customers). >I wonder if perhaps they are so deep into a bubble of wealth and privilege that to them, spending $50 for a (cold by the time it arrives) burger seemed reasonable. As others have mentioned, it's more a matter that VC's aren't necessarily looking to be the next big tech company. Many are looking for a profitable IPO and then move on to the next company. Lots of problems with enabling that model to begin with, but that's a whole other bucket of worms.
• itamarst 3y ago
  Visiting NYC a few weeks ago the bike-based restaurant delivery people were interesting to see, not a thing where I live. Relevant to "active time", they seemed to spend a lot of time during the day just waiting around...
• imadierich 3y ago
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• deleted 3y ago
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• bluSCALE4 3y ago
  I personally feel like outsourced delivery for hot food orders at peak hours is a flawed idea. I've used Grubhub and it seems like they try to group deliveries. In my situation, I had a driver pick up my food only to drive it around down and deliver it to me 40 minutes later. If I order from a place and they don't have a driver on staff, I won't order delivery.
  • Nextgrid 3y ago
    The problem isn't that they group orders, it's that you weren't aware of it and weren't given the choice. You were made to believe that you were paying for a direct order and it's only after the fact you realize but by then it's too late and getting your money back is a hassle. There would be no problems if you were given the choice upfront to pay less for a grouped order or more for a direct order. The problem is that these companies need to somehow pay for all that "growth & engagement" and so have insane overheads, so being upfront about the costs will mean they'd get no business, so instead they obfuscate it as much as possible like in the above scenario or outright steal drivers' tips.
    • bluSCALE4 3y ago
      Yeah, I mean, as I mentioned, I'm willing to order rolling the dice but once my order is picked up, they should do the right thing and be transparent. They have my money already and as you said, I now have the expectation that "I'm next".
  • quickthrower2 3y ago
    Seems insane that people living in inner cities need to get food delivered. Unless there is a good reason you are handicapped etc. or maybe just had a baby. But for most people routine delivery when you can walk 5 minutes and phone ahead that order is fine.
    • hypeatei 3y ago
      Not really insane when you consider that money can buy you more time. It's very convenient to get food delivered on these apps. Whether it's financially responsible or not depends on the individual.
• sonicanatidae 3y ago
  They can keep it. I refuse to bribe someone to deliver my food with a tip, before. I'm not even going to get into when a driver eats the meal, you have zero recourse, in practical terms. I'm done with companies not only charging more, but requiring that I assist them AGAIN with payroll. Fucking pay an actual wage or fuck off.
• levelz 3y ago
  In New York City five years ago I was switching from one IT career to another (Unix sysadmin to programmer), and was working part-time for a very small startup that had run out out of seed money, while interviewing for more lucrative positions (which I found four years ago). The founders were working a day job, and funding me out of pocket, which was to the tune of $100 a month. For a variety of reasons I decided to do Postmates deliveries, one reason being the flexibility. Running around Manhattan on cold November nights five years ago, I began to appreciate the $100 a month I was getting programming for this small startup at my desk at home or in their co-working space. If you don't have a bicycle or car, you pretty much need a metro-card, which goes to your expenses. Sometimes orders came in right away, sometimes I'd be sitting around for over 20 minutes waiting for one. The food pickup location was always within half a mile of my location. The quickest pickup offer to delivery for me was 23 minutes, longest was 52 minutes. With waits of up to half an hour before a next offer. Deliveries usually paid a little over $4, but there were bonuses of $2 for some deliveries, and you'd be paid for long distances or long waits for food. You would also get tips (up to $7). As I said, I was getting paid $100 a month to do some programming for a small startup, which seemed very little, but it was a lot easier than how much time and effort it took running around Manhattan to earn $100 from Postmates. About six months after doing occasional Postmates deliveries I was making over $60 an hour programming for a multi-national.
• gen220 3y ago
  Do other people in NYC use Doordash? Curious to understand people who do. Anecdotally, I never have even considered it – although it's true that I'm somebody who prefers choosing my own groceries. I feel like the value prop (i.e. value less [opportunity] costs) is de minimis to most in NYC, with abundant grocers and restaurants at every price point.
  • squeaky-clean 3y ago
    Yeah but then you have to leave your home. I know people who use it plenty because they're too lazy or busy (the person I know who uses it most is in med school and has basically no life currently except for studying and school). I use it when I'm too sick to leave home and I'm not stocked up on food. Or board game nights when we don't want someone to have to leave to pick up food. All the delivery apps have such bad customer experience though, we usually now just agree on food beforehand and have one person pick it up on their way.
  • Workaccount2 3y ago
    I did it (delivered) years ago. Absolutely blows my mind the kind of money people will spend to avoid 10 minutes of driving. Even now that I am making substantially more money, pretty much Doordash's prime demographic, I find it such a terrible deal that I simply cannot bring myself to use it.
• throwitaway222 3y ago
  Why not just get rid of prices and the contractors can just put in a price per delivery that makes it worth it to them?
• legitster 3y ago
  The NYC report is interesting but also very problematic. The justification of the minimum pay over NYC minimum wage is a mixture of reasonable (DoorDash not paying employee taxes, worker costs) and ... creative (like rolling in cost of living adjustments to minimum wage just because you can). More importantly: > First, the model assumes that, from 2023 to 2025, apps will respond to the minimum pay rate by increasing deliveries per hour worked from the current 1.63 to 2.50. This assumption is based on the Department’s identification, using the record-level data obtained from apps, of large differences between apps in the number of deliveries per hour. Their "model" is making HUGE assumptions about the apps being able to "innovate" in NY, based on data coming from their own black-box reported numbers. And nearly all of calculations about how the pricing, cost to businesses, customer price sensitivity, and take-home pay of the workers is entirely based on very flimsy projections. I have no problem if NY wants to level the playing field between employees and contractors so that apps have to pay fair. But they are taking things one step further just because they have the mandate to do so. And there's no way that the people setting policy based on these arbitrary numbers are ever going to be held accountable for them.
• blindriver 3y ago
  I worked in this industry and I know for a fact that if you don't include tipping in the checkout flow, tips will drop precipitously. But if drivers are being paid $30/hr, it's fair to drop tipping altogether. I would love for the US to eschew tipping culture like other countries and just pay a wage that is transparent.
  • deleted 3y ago
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  • imchillyb 3y ago
    > I would love for the US to eschew tipping culture like other countries and just pay a wage that is transparent. Few servers in the US share your sentiment. Servers are the aristocracy of the retail industry. They don't want their gravy train to run out. An decent server at a decent restaurant can easily clear 60k / year. An excellent server at an excellent restaurant can clear 6 figures. What other industry is this possible with so little training or experience?
  • givemeethekeys 3y ago
    How much does vehicle maintenance and fuel cost? Does that come out of the driver's pocket?
    • dannyw 3y ago
      Nearly everyone in NYC delivers using e-bikes.
• crmd 3y ago
  As an old person, I'd like to point out that my hometown of New York City had a dynamic, world class restaurant scene, including a cornucopia of home delivery, long before the tech platform companies found a way to siphon ~40% of consumer spend out of the local restaurant economy in exchange for some friction reduction. We were doing great. But you had a drawer full of paper menus and had to call the restaurant.
  • graphe 3y ago
    Did you experience the automats?
  • candiddevmike 3y ago
    And if you called the restaurant enough, you typically got on a first name basis with them and had incredible customer service. Now you're just another customer #47523 that created order #37324.
    • koolba 3y ago
      > And if you called the restaurant enough, you typically got on a first name basis with them and had incredible customer service. Also Caller ID isn’t that new.
      • Scoundreller 3y ago
        Caller ID made answering phones at work fun. When we saw "you know who" calling, we'd rock paper scissors and the loser would have to answer.
      • hiatus 3y ago
        I don't know about your experience but zero restaurants I've worked in had caller id.
      • throwaway2037 3y ago
        It existed since at least the 1990s in the US. Is 30 years enough for you?
• theappsecguy 3y ago
  I feel like the only viable model for these delivery apps is delivery with autonomous vehicles like Nuro (or any other, this is just the company I have heard of). Whether that’s actually viable and how soon, I have no idea, but the model as it stands does not work currently. A whole lot of people will lose income (no matter how mediocre) if this were to come to fruition though.
  • bobbylarrybobby 3y ago
    In New York, there is imply not enough space on the roads for autonomous vehicles to work for this purpose. Delivery only works now because delivery drivers all use bikes, e-bikes, and mopeds, which are immune to traffic.
    • SheinhardtWigCo 3y ago
      There’s no reason autonomous vehicles used for this purpose can’t also have smaller form factors.
• zepton 3y ago
  DoorDash is being misleading when they imply that NYC required a minimum wage of $29.93/hr for delivery workers. DoorDash could comply with the bylaw by paying its contractors $17.96/hr for the full time they work (including time waiting for orders). But DoorDash instead chose to use the "Alternate Method" which has a 67% higher minimum wage, but only for the time the contractor is actively delivering food (not standby time). (full text of bylaw: https://codelibrary.amlegal.com/codes/newyorkcity/latest/NYCrules/0-0-0-131803 https://codelibrary.amlegal.com/codes/newyorkcity/latest/NYC...) The implication that Dashers earn 2x more per hour than "other workers" earning minimum wage is false, since "other workers" are paid for 100% of the time they work, including when they are waiting for work.
  • darth_avocado 3y ago
    The other part of this is that Doordash workers need to pay for their own delivery vehicles (gas, upkeep etc.) which factors into the actual wages they get. They are not making significantly more than minimum wage workers.
    • CydeWeys 3y ago
      The delivery vehicles being used in NYC are almost entirely e-bikes, so the expense is not as big as you might be thinking. It's certainly nothing close to the cost to gig workers for running an Uber car.
      • interactivecode 3y ago
        So does it include health and sick pay for when you get injured or older and you’re less mobile? Cycling all the time could be way more taxing than driving.
        • CydeWeys 3y ago
          Of course it doesn't include any of that. It's "independent contracting". Though keep in mind they're throttle e-bikes, so there isn't a lot of actual pedaling going on. And as far as accumulated workplace injuries go, merely riding a bike is pretty easy compared to a lot of blue collar work. No, I think what'd get you here is the crashes.
• Rapzid 3y ago
  I quit using all those services due to the menu markup, service fees, and then the tipping shit ball topper. If I'm using I service for the express purpose of delivery, and paying a premium for it, I don't need a culture of expected tipping on top. I miss the days of Uber baking supply/demand pricing and that was the end of it.
• multicast 3y ago
  That's awful. That happens when bureaucrats, who often don't understand the most simple basics of economics, mandate socialist rules to private companies. The companies affected by these policies will now just fire people to keep staff cost on the same level as before, period. Thus less people trying to fulfill the role of the same amount of delivery guys as before. And such more stress to fulfill more orders in the same amount of time. In other words the situation for the delivery staff is worse than before. Doordash will now have a much higher staff turnover rate where drivers quit after a few months due to e.g. burnout and are replaced by new workers who intend to take the high wage but only for a few months. Serious long-term employee positions are now gone. And as always nobody forces anyone in any way to work for doordash - people have their own free will to choose to work for doordash for any dollar amount that is offered to them. No minimum wage is what creates competition between companies, all industries affected by minimum wages already have and will have shitty wages for ages to come. Switzerland as an example is a country where cleaners (CHF 4K a month on average) without any serious education earn a bit less than a well educated professional mechanic and 2x more than a local branch bank employee in Germany, simply because of no minimum wage restrictions (also after monthly living expenses in Switzerland which are relatively high in certain aspects).
  • standardUser 3y ago
    In Germany and the Nordic states wages are largely controlled by the powerful trade unions, the likes of which do not exist in the US and likely could not exist under current labor laws. Without powerful trade unions to set the floor, we have minimum wages. The alternative - allowing poverty wages - ensures the success of business models that can only survive by employing workers who rely on state aid (or are otherwise destitute). In effect, removing the wage floor just makes government bigger and almost everyone poorer.
    • multicast 3y ago
      > In effect, removing the wage floor just makes government bigger and almost everyone poorer. Nope, this is absolutely false, it is exactly the other way around. I am not quite sure what you are trying to accomplish with your whole comment. It neither makes sense nor is it strictly related to what I just posted. Did you want to debate an argument of mine, just post your personal views about labor in general or simply troll? I am always open for a discussion. Besides are labor unions (you are referring to the British english version) heavily involved in labor and wage discussions in the USA. The US is literally a labor union hell, so I don't get your point on that matter either.
• SheinhardtWigCo 3y ago
  > As always, 100% of a consumer’s tip goes to the Dasher. “As always” is a lie. Moving the tip prompt to after checkout is far more consequential than they’re admitting. Previously, the way it worked was that you could tip $0 and they would compensate by steadily increasing their offer for the job until a dasher accepted it. This essentially meant that pre-checkout “tips” were bonus money for DoorDash, not the workers. It sounds like that scam is finally going away. No wonder they refer to the regulatory changes as “bad policies”. This is coming in other major markets and they know it.
• manueljose46567 3y ago
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