6 ms·

> The woman who originally owned the painting passed away just two days after the sale, leaving her three heirs to inherit her estate. Thanks grandma!

dmix 3y ago
> Four years ago, when she began clearing out her home ahead of a move, she intended to throw out the painting, unaware of its true value, per the Guardian’s Kim Willsher. Luckily, her family called in an expert to appraise items on the property. The unusual depiction of Christ caught the eye of the expert, who assumed it could be worth hundreds of thousands. Thanks to the family wise choice to call an appraiser and the appraiser's good eye for art. btw is it normal for families to call appraisers? Or was it likely grandma had lots of nice antique things. Or maybe was wealthy (mentioning a "hot plate" indicates probably not).
- orwin 3y ago
  btw is it normal for families to call appraisers? In France, yes. They aren't art specialists, but it helps with dividing the estate.
  - dmix 3y ago
    Well then give this appraiser some recognition, hopefully inspiring others in her industry.
- mguijarr 3y ago
  > btw is it normal for families to call appraisers? Well, sorry to say but no, it is not "normal" in the sense every family does this - something only seen for rich people or those who have problems dividing wealth
  - kergonath 3y ago
    You have to do it any time there are more than one child, because then the estate needs to be divided up accurately. You also have to do it any time there is anything significant in the inherited properties, because this needs to be taxed. It’s something a notary require to execute the deceased’s will, you cannot not do it in general. You need it also for houses and buildings, in which case an assessment from an estate agent is usually enough.
- 5555624 3y ago
  > btw is it normal for families to call appraisers? When my mother passed away, my sister contacted a firm to handle the estate sale. They had several people who appraised things. How qualified were they? It varied. The guys who appraised the jewelry and antique furniture were spot on; but, the one who looked at all the Asian stuff seemed clueless. (Since they were getting a percentage, you'd think they'd try to be accurate.)
- OJFord 3y ago
  > btw is it normal for families to call appraisers? Or was it likely grandma had lots of nice antique things. It read to me like they were (rightly!) concerned she was disposing of things she didn't want any more inappropriately, without recognising what she had - she couldn't remember where it came from. If they didn't know either, then fair enough and good call I think. Local auctioneer would be a pretty reasonable/cheap starting point (but decent chance of recognising when to consult a specialist) if there's no particular reason to think there's anything very valuable I would think.
amelius 3y ago
And thanks guy from 1280 who made it possible in the first place.
TacticalCoder 3y ago
> Thanks grandma! Because it's grandma who found the art piece and not her grandkids and because grandma live in France [1], grandkids shall see approximately six millions EUR (divided by the number of grandkids) of the 20 millions EUR this would sell for. Inheritance taxes above 1.8m in France are 45%. Grandma to kids: 55%. Kids to grandkids: another 55%. I mean, three kids getting 2m each is nice but let's not kid ourselves here: it's the state that can thank grandma as over two generations they'll be taking 14 millions EUR out of 20 millions EUR. And grandma is not free to do what she wants with the money: should she decide to give the money, the donation would be taxed at inheritance rate (45%: which I'm sure komrades find totally cromulent and probably even not enough). (which shall greatly help a state-owned entity like the Louvre museum to acquire the masterpiece btw) Uncle Sam (well, it's french cousin): "Thanks grandma!" indeed. [1] I live in a country which has zero inheritance taxes and zero taxes when donating money and zero taxes on capital gains (if you held things like stocks/art pieces/collectible cars or whatever really besides real estate for more than six months). Income tax goes as high as 42% though but after you've paid your income tax, your money is yours and you basically do what the fuck you want with it.
- yieldcrv 3y ago
  Maybe she used a trust and circumvented all of this, who knows?
- dfc 3y ago
  What country are you from?
  - otteromkram 3y ago
    Estonia.
    - kergonath 3y ago
      Honest question: how is lower inheritance tax and higher income tax a better situation? It’s much more fair to tax inheritance, which is something you get just by chance, compared to income, which is something you have to work for. Low inheritance tax also leads to wealth concentration over generations, and worse inequality. This is compounded because rich people get a lot of their wealth from capital gains, which usually are not taxed as income, so income tax is in effect a tax on the middle class. I don’t know enough about Estonia to comment on how well it works, but without more detail it sounds really bad.

dmix 3y ago

> Four years ago, when she began clearing out her home ahead of a move, she intended to throw out the painting, unaware of its true value, per the Guardian’s Kim Willsher. Luckily, her family called in an expert to appraise items on the property. The unusual depiction of Christ caught the eye of the expert, who assumed it could be worth hundreds of thousands. Thanks to the family wise choice to call an appraiser and the appraiser's good eye for art. btw is it normal for families to call appraisers? Or was it likely grandma had lots of nice antique things. Or maybe was wealthy (mentioning a "hot plate" indicates probably not).

orwin 3y ago
btw is it normal for families to call appraisers? In France, yes. They aren't art specialists, but it helps with dividing the estate.
- dmix 3y ago
  Well then give this appraiser some recognition, hopefully inspiring others in her industry.
mguijarr 3y ago
> btw is it normal for families to call appraisers? Well, sorry to say but no, it is not "normal" in the sense every family does this - something only seen for rich people or those who have problems dividing wealth
- kergonath 3y ago
  You have to do it any time there are more than one child, because then the estate needs to be divided up accurately. You also have to do it any time there is anything significant in the inherited properties, because this needs to be taxed. It’s something a notary require to execute the deceased’s will, you cannot not do it in general. You need it also for houses and buildings, in which case an assessment from an estate agent is usually enough.
5555624 3y ago
> btw is it normal for families to call appraisers? When my mother passed away, my sister contacted a firm to handle the estate sale. They had several people who appraised things. How qualified were they? It varied. The guys who appraised the jewelry and antique furniture were spot on; but, the one who looked at all the Asian stuff seemed clueless. (Since they were getting a percentage, you'd think they'd try to be accurate.)
OJFord 3y ago
> btw is it normal for families to call appraisers? Or was it likely grandma had lots of nice antique things. It read to me like they were (rightly!) concerned she was disposing of things she didn't want any more inappropriately, without recognising what she had - she couldn't remember where it came from. If they didn't know either, then fair enough and good call I think. Local auctioneer would be a pretty reasonable/cheap starting point (but decent chance of recognising when to consult a specialist) if there's no particular reason to think there's anything very valuable I would think.

amelius 3y ago

And thanks guy from 1280 who made it possible in the first place.

TacticalCoder 3y ago

> Thanks grandma! Because it's grandma who found the art piece and not her grandkids and because grandma live in France [1], grandkids shall see approximately six millions EUR (divided by the number of grandkids) of the 20 millions EUR this would sell for. Inheritance taxes above 1.8m in France are 45%. Grandma to kids: 55%. Kids to grandkids: another 55%. I mean, three kids getting 2m each is nice but let's not kid ourselves here: it's the state that can thank grandma as over two generations they'll be taking 14 millions EUR out of 20 millions EUR. And grandma is not free to do what she wants with the money: should she decide to give the money, the donation would be taxed at inheritance rate (45%: which I'm sure komrades find totally cromulent and probably even not enough). (which shall greatly help a state-owned entity like the Louvre museum to acquire the masterpiece btw) Uncle Sam (well, it's french cousin): "Thanks grandma!" indeed. [1] I live in a country which has zero inheritance taxes and zero taxes when donating money and zero taxes on capital gains (if you held things like stocks/art pieces/collectible cars or whatever really besides real estate for more than six months). Income tax goes as high as 42% though but after you've paid your income tax, your money is yours and you basically do what the fuck you want with it.

yieldcrv 3y ago
Maybe she used a trust and circumvented all of this, who knows?
dfc 3y ago
What country are you from?
- otteromkram 3y ago
  Estonia.
  - kergonath 3y ago
    Honest question: how is lower inheritance tax and higher income tax a better situation? It’s much more fair to tax inheritance, which is something you get just by chance, compared to income, which is something you have to work for. Low inheritance tax also leads to wealth concentration over generations, and worse inequality. This is compounded because rich people get a lot of their wealth from capital gains, which usually are not taxed as income, so income tax is in effect a tax on the middle class. I don’t know enough about Estonia to comment on how well it works, but without more detail it sounds really bad.