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Northlight technology in Alan Wake 2
- vagab0nd 3y ago> Reworked NPC locomotion I wish Cyberpunk 2077 had this. It's a very immersive game but man did those weird/glitchy NPC movements take me out of it.
- simbolit 3y agoLove the tone of the article. Example: Our marketing folks would say the characters are more responsive and lifelike than ever before; our internal dev notes described it as "the characters won't bump or get stuck into objects in tight spaces".
- wilg 3y agoThe perennial problem with marketing language seems to be that everything needs to be reworded to "make sense" to someone who doesn't know anything about the actual product that is being marketed.
- mpalmer 3y agoNot nearly as big a problem as the positive spin they feel compelled put on everything. When everything sounds like a win, nothing does.
- drstewart 3y agoIs the product marketed here a video game or a video game engine? Why do you expect every video game player to understand graphics programming?
- h4ch1 3y agoI don't see a harm in learning at least minor terminology to better bridge the communication gap between developers and consumers.
- drstewart 3y agoConsumers don't care about the details of how a game is developed. So what's the BENEFIT of doing this?
- chankstein38 3y agoDo you need to understand graphics programming to understand "The character won't get stuck in tight places"? They seem to do this because that sounds way more practical and way less magical than "The character is more lifelike!"
- m463 3y agoirl: small cramped house realtor: cozy charmer!
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- fennecfoxy 3y agoI mean, the latter part of that sentence is still all marketing language. The whole sentence is marketing. The comedy in it is marketing.
- kg 3y agoConsidering their size (a few hundred people for the whole studio AFAIK), Remedy consistently punches above their weight when it comes to graphics. Off the top of my head only Remedy and CD Projekt Red are able to compete with the big dogs (Unreal, Unity, EA Frostbite) when it comes to image fidelity and performance. Their GDC/siggraph/etc presentations are fantastic for anyone interested in computer graphics or technical art. Alan Wake 2 is easily one of the most beautiful (from a technical perspective - IMO also from an artistic one but that's a 100% subjective thing) games ever released and it still looks good even when you turn all the settings down, which is a true achievement. It's hard to make a game scale down to older hardware while still looking good. Though as commentators like Digital Foundry have noted, the game runs really badly if your GPU doesn't support Mesh Shaders (they mention the use of those for culling in the article). Mesh Shaders in this case enable a lot of really smart culling and dynamic level of detail so that things like coffee cups or tires can be perfectly round without having the 'every NPC has 10k-poly teeth in their mouth' problem that's currently sabotaging Cities Skylines 2's performance, and this is one of the big advantages offered by Unreal 5's Nanite.
- dharma1 3y agoSome extremely good GPU devs in Finland, demoscene prob has a lot to do with it. Remedy rocks. Isn’t CD Projekt Red moving to UE5 for future titles? Shame, Cyberpunk was gorgeous - would have loved a multiplayer game with that engine.
- capableweb 3y agoFunnily enough, both Colossal Order (Cities: Skylines 2 devs) and Remedy are Finnish companies, yet only one suffers from GPU performance issues.
- dharma1 3y agoOne is a small company developing a city builder in Unity, the other are ex demoscene GPU gods building a custom state-of-the-art engine themselves. Nuff said!
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- holoduke 3y agoIts refreshing to see something different than another unreal engine based game. It must be extremely challenging to have your own inhouse engine. The engine is one thing. The tooling to build levels, animations etc is maybe even harder. I guess it also gives some advantages. More control over low level architecture gives you more opportunities to optimize. Harder with a all purpose engine like Unreal. Cant wait to play this game.
- dundarious 3y agoThe continued legacy of demoscene.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- jamesfinlayson 3y ago> It must be extremely challenging to have your own inhouse engine. Agreed - there are so many off-the-shelf engines with big communities that you'd really have to need full control to do it yourself.
- henriquecm8 3y agoThis is why sad to see Cyberpunk moving to Unreal, it's a solid engine, it takes advantage of all CPU cores, unlike unreal. I'll never understand why have stuttering issues because of shader compilation, and most other in-house engines don't have that problem. And why it hasn't been improved yet, and even if they release an update to improve this tomorrow, it will take years to see games take advantage of it.
- rip_netrunner 3y agoIt's a huge resource sink to develop and manage your own engine (Cryengine in this case). No one wants to buy it because proper documentation, support, and updates for the engine would cost CDPR even more to produce. Making your own engine is only really feasible if you have a unique use-case that the existing engines don't provide (this is what led Bethesda to create the Gamebryo engine back in the day). Ultimately, it's more efficient from a cost and productivity system 98% of the time to use something off-the-shelf.
- squidsoup 3y agoTechnical achievements aside, this game is delightful, particularly if you're a fan of Twin Peaks or scandi noir. Highly recommended if you have a penchant for the weird or macabre. A milestone in interactive storytelling.
- add-sub-mul-div 3y agoIs this reasonably okay for someone who hasn't played Control or AW1, if they're not strict about needing to know all the backstory?
- wilg 3y agoYeah I played it without playing either. I did watch an AW1 recap halfway through. But its basically all so crazy its fun not knowing stuff too.
- lfkdev 3y agoAlan Wake has nothing todo with Control. AW1 is not important to know, but you'll miss some details.
- wilg 3y ago> Alan Wake has nothing todo with Control. Interesting theory.
- anaisbetts 3y ago...did we play the same game?
- rickstanley 3y agoIt has though. There are hints "everywhere" (not to be specific, otherwise I'll spoil it) in the game, but it's not vital to play AW2, I would add what you said about AW1, "you'll miss some details." AW2 is a step forward to the shared universe of Remedy.
- SketchySeaBeast 3y ago
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- SirMaster 3y agoIn the first example it's still really jarring how much their feet slide around on the ground, or sliding in place as they walk into an object without moving. I wonder when this will ever be solved. Don't get me wrong, the engine is incredible and the visuals and systems are some of the best we have seen.
- Tade0 3y agoI've seen a demonstration of a solution on the YouTube channel Two Minute Papers - it was actually about an algorithm that blended animations so that the transitions looked natural.
- jay_kyburz 3y agoI wonder how long it will be before we stop using animation and switch to an actual bipedal physics simulation where the agent actually knows how to walk and jump and run.
- Keyframe 3y agoWe were there over a decade ago with Euphoria, but I think they've stopped selling/developing it? GTA 4 used it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HauN98naZ9U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HauN98naZ9U
- ingenieros 3y agoThey were acquihired by Zynga of all companies which then promptly proceeded to kill off all their products.
- ajdoingnothing 3y agoGTA IV's tech was quite ahead of its time (2008), with the integration of Euphoria (which had to be integrated in-house by NaturalMotion engineers inside Rockstar's studio @ Edinburgh). The other comment correctly pointed out that NaturalMotion was acquired by Zynga, who in turn got acquired by Take-Two (parent of Rockstar Games).. So who knows, perhaps we'll still see an updated version in the sixth major instalment of the franchise.
- throwaway879423 3y agoAm I the only who have no interest in graphics fidelity, but would like to see more physics engines created to play with? Like a fully destructible world would be fun.
- cubefox 3y agoThere was actually a regress in this respect. Some ten years ago there was a "destructible physics" boom in many big games, but nowadays most games abandoned it. There seems to be a trade-off between graphical fidelity and the opportunity for physics-based manipulation of the environment.
- Geee 3y agoRemedy's previous game, Control, had probably one of the most impressive destructive environments. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12NORuGfcLc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12NORuGfcLc
- cubefox 3y agoThe game seems to use relatively simple flat geometry, like concrete walls and large glass windows. I would be surprised if they kept the destruction physics with the intricate geometry of Alan Wake 2.
- ClimaxGravely 3y agoNot to take anything away from Control. That game is a absolute masterpiece but the destruction in that game is largely cosmetic and often inconsequential to gameplay. So much that it could be pre-fractured offline.
- wilg 3y agoIt's also a whole game design challenge. It has to actually offer something fun and improve the gameplay.
- schmorptron 3y agoDidn't that happen because Nvidia bought physx when it was the cool new promising tech around and gimped it on anything non-Nvidia?
- spywaregorilla 3y agothe team behind some of the best content on the unreal marketplace did work on this game iirc. https://mawiunited.com/ https://mawiunited.com/ Wonderful content. I hope we see more shops like this building content for ue5
- rickstanley 3y agoI would love to know how they feel today about using D in their ecosystem, that is, if they still are, and see what challenges they have faced during AW2 development. For reference: - Using an Emerging Language in Quantum Break (https://ubm-twvideo01.s3.amazonaws.com/o1/vault/gdceurope2016/presentations/Watson_Ethan_D_Using_an.pdf https://ubm-twvideo01.s3.amazonaws.com/o1/vault/gdceurope201... ); - DConf 2016: Quantum Break: AAA Gaming With Some D Code -- Ethan Watson (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YjLW7anNfc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YjLW7anNfc).
- spookie 3y agoSame, would love to know more about it!
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- dom96 3y agoSame. My guess is that they no longer use D, seeing as the person doing those talks no longer works there and other big places like Facebook have ceased using it. But I'd love to be proven wrong!
- ferbivore 3y agoI don't think it was ever officially confirmed, but word is they excised all the D from their codebase after Quantum Break. They're certainly not looking for D programmers now. Possible starting point if you want to dig for sources: https://forum.dlang.org/post/lymybpygzfalbdgoaizr@forum.dlang.org https://forum.dlang.org/post/lymybpygzfalbdgoaizr@forum.dlan...
- daemin 3y agoAs with many things at games studios using a different language (or unique technology) is usually driven by a single person. Once they leave or move out of the place where they could contribute and maintain it, unless it has support and buy in from the rest of the team and studio, it starts to gets replaced. From the grapevine I heard there was one person that advocated for writing in D, though I'm not sure if they are still there or not any more.
- debugnik 3y agoYet another team that switches to Luau for scripting; they even made their own VS Code extension. I gave Luau a try recently but the syntax for external type declarations is undocumented and unstable, which made it awkward to test properly, and the available VS Code extensions default to a Roblox environment until you mess with their settings. So mixed feelings for now, I guess this is why they built their own tooling for it.
- hipadev23 3y ago> but the syntax for external type declarations is undocumented https://luau-lang.org/typecheck https://luau-lang.org/typecheck https://luau-lang.org/grammar https://luau-lang.org/grammar
- debugnik 3y agoThat's not it, I mean the "declare" statements that aren't even listed in the grammar, but are needed to give the type checker information about C API exports; I had to discover them by digging through source code. The analyzer even hardcodes a bunch of them. luau-lsp for example ships this globalTypes.d.lua file[1] for Roblox development and lets you configure your own. [1]: https://github.com/JohnnyMorganz/luau-lsp/blob/4b7872349d9b8803f514c1e61dc33b020ec25b80/scripts/globalTypes.d.lua https://github.com/JohnnyMorganz/luau-lsp/blob/4b7872349d9b8...
- jdance 3y agoI also have my own vscode extension for luau debugging, still have not moved to the type system due to lack of any decent class typing But the debugger is so good, I dont know any other debugger with such low overhead in any language
- d--b 3y agoThe rendering is really impressive. Character animation is not great. It's really an area where video games need to improve. Hopefully AI will help...
- Archelaos 3y agoSomehow the movement of the characters feels still quite uncanny to me. In the video about the "voxel-based character controller" the walking looks more like gliding. And in the first few second in "NPC locomotion" the walking just does not seem right. I think it is the fact that each step looks exactly the same and everyone uses the same step size. So the character are awkwardly tightly coordinated. One can see more variety later in the video, when the characters change individually between walking and running. That looks much more realistic. -- I wonder what makes it so difficult to generally achieve more variety in the movement details.
- m463 3y agoI wonder if someday there will be a walkgpt with normal or zombie modes.
- ljm 3y agoA lot of it becomes un-noticeable when you’re in the middle of the action. You’re too busy looking at other things. Although to support your point, pretty much every friendly NPC is stationary. Once the hostile zone in on you you’re not looking at how they walk - they’re shrouded in mist anyway. IMO control was a tech demo for all of this and it also supports why the enemy count is much lower and framed as a horror story.
- antiterra 3y ago> "the characters won't bump or get stuck into objects in tight spaces". After playing the first ‘boss’ in AW2, this is an amusing claim to read. The controls and environment interaction are maddening.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- beenBoutIT 3y agoI would label AW2 as garbage - a schizophrenia sim paired with a dull board game where you arrange post-it notes. Remedy/Sam Lake dropped the ball. Instead of making another game cut from the same brilliant Alan Wake cloth they botched it and took out most of what makes the original game great.
- Pr0ject217 3y agoI want to read it, but I don't want any spoilers (or, remove any surprise). I'll check it out after I've played the game!
- Strom 3y agoThere are no spoilers in the article. It's less revealing than the trailer.
- Asooka 3y agoMan, all these graphical enhancements and they still can't design a proper camera. Off-centre camera systems, aka "over the shoulder" cameras make me motion sick. I need the player to be in the centre of the screen or everything feels lopsided. By all means, do the RE4 zoom thing when the player aims a gun or similar, but while moving the camera should be horizontally centred. Halo tried something similar with giving the crosshair a vertical offset and while it didn't bother me personally, a lot of people complained it made them sick, so they added an option to move it back. The visual system in a lot of folks really doesn't like being off-centre compared to the body it's tasked with moving.
- sherry-sherry 3y ago>and they still can't design a proper camera They did, it's just not one you like. Most games that position the camera behind and centred have to zoom out or go weirdly high so you can still see what the character is looking at/heading towards. The off-centre camera allows you to be at the same height/viewpoint as the character and still see what's in front. Look at the Red Dead Redemption 2 camera position when walking vs Alan Wake 2, totally different viewpoints. Both are different artistic choices, I'd say both work well for each game.
- badsectoracula 3y agoYeah i agree but i think this ship has long sailed - over the shoulder cameras are pretty much everywhere these days. I avoided several 3rd person perspective games for this reason alone (some even had me feel nauseous) and eventually had to force myself to get used to it since i wanted to play some games that switched to it (e.g. Mass Effect 3). Nowadays i can play a game using it without feeling off but i still prefer it when games put the character at the center of the screen. (also i yelled at more than one game that had an option to switch shoulder but not put the character at the center - if you are bothering to implement this why not also add the center option? :-P)
- 59nadir 3y ago> Man, all these graphical enhancements and they still can't design a proper camera. There's absolutely nothing wrong with the camera, it's just not to your taste. They've made zero risky or offensive choices with the camera. > Off-centre camera systems, aka "over the shoulder" cameras make me motion sick. I need the player to be in the centre of the screen or everything feels lopsided. This is a you problem, though, and an extremely rare problem overall (rare enough for me to literally never hear about it in 25+ years of gaming). I don't think it's reasonable for you to expect the world of game development to cater to your very niche, specific issue.
- mcbrit 3y agoFrom the first few sentences of the article: "ECS meant that iteration was quick because adding new or modifying existing systems or game objects was easy, and performance gains were clear when saving and loading the Case Board." and there's an accompanying screenshot with perhaps 20 objects on a case board. I scanned through the rest of the article with one question in mind: what the hell? ECS is not a solution to putting 20 photos on a case board. You're pushing 100Ks or Ms of objects and need performance and are willing to suffer for performance = ECS. Not this. So, despite world class developer, I did not find the article credible. The main cause of the lack of credibility is the author of the article did not anticipate the reader glancing at the case board and the ECS claim and saying: bullshit. Alternatively, they did anticipate the claim, and were told to ship the article anyways.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- mcbrit 3y agoThe next section isn't better: We built a new Voxel-Based Character Control that enables smooth navigation in cramped, complex and dynamic environments; it makes character movement more natural and fluid. Fluid movement can be a problem, but "Voxel" is not what you did here, it's a marketing term. Maybe start with how a 2d collider for a 2d game should perhaps be a sphere smaller than the character (not a square, they get stuck on corners), and then say sth interesting about how you solved 3d. I am fairly certain that "voxel" isn't what happened, esp with the prior of "ECS".
- mcbrit 3y ago[flagged]
- LarsDu88 3y agoECS isn't just useful for performance. It's a better way to architect games and other sorts of software in a more data-oriented (rather than OOP oriented) way.
- mcbrit 3y ago
- jebarker 3y agoI always think glimpses of the custom tools used in game dev are really cool. I work in large scale ML systems and I wish there was similar effort put into tools for observability and debugging of neural networks. I'd be tempted to work on game dev tooling one day if there were more remote work opportunities.
- ugh123 3y ago>I wish there was similar effort put into tools for observability and debugging of neural networks. So do it. Then show it to your team and boss then boss's boss.
- lukasb 3y agoIsn't that https://wandb.ai/ https://wandb.ai/ ?
- sa-code 3y agoHow is WanDB different from postgres?
- jebarker 3y agoI like wandb but really it's just an aggregated metrics platform and it's cloud based design limits what's possible due to bandwidth constraints. I like this tool from Nvidia [1] for exploring CNN feature maps. That's more in line with what I'm talking about but it's is an offline tool. I am imagining tools that provide this granularity of information about networks in real-time during training. Disclosure: I work for nvidia [1] https://developer.nvidia.com/nvidia-fme https://developer.nvidia.com/nvidia-fme
- beefsack 3y agoECS architectures are used in a number of young open source game engines, such as Bevy[1]. I haven't done game development for a long time, but hearing about an architecture that does away with the heavy and complex OOP you often see in games makes me want to dip my toes in again and check it out. [1]: https://bevyengine.org/ https://bevyengine.org/
- fulafel 3y agoThere's also a history in applying ECS in older things, it started taking off in early 2000's, it's been bread and butter (though not universal) for long now, also in some open source engines. See eg https://github.com/Adelost/entity-component-systems-study#related-work https://github.com/Adelost/entity-component-systems-study#re...
- LarsDu88 3y agoWait, so they have an ECS game engine with a AAA renderer and nanite-like tech along with a lua based scripting engine and Hollywood level facial animation? They should release the engine. It's a solid competitor to Unreal (more scalable due to ECS, easier to write with Luau)
- dixie_land 3y agoWhen I got my 3090 back when it was first released, I was excited to finally play Control with ray tracing on, no luck. Now with Alan Wake 2 it barely runs High with ray tracing off. It's a visually stunning engine but it's just too demanding IMO.
- jjj123 3y agoI was playing on a 3080 and i second this. It was way too demanding for my card, at least with any ray tracing on. I just upgraded to a 4080 and it runs flawlessly though, I guess they were targeting 40-series cards for anything raytraced.
- starcraft2wol 3y agoLots of studios do. Turning internal software into a product for others is a different thing.
- jamesfinlayson 3y agoYeah, even Valve have (maybe surprisingly) chosen not to license the Source 2 engine.
- paavohtl 3y agoThat's technically not true – they've licensed it out to Facepunch to create a sequel to Garry's Mod (which was one of the most popular Source 1 games): https://sbox.facepunch.com/about/ https://sbox.facepunch.com/about/. It is the only one we are aware of though.
- Cloudef 3y agoWhen will northlight integrate libsm64 support?
- pragmatick 3y agoThe page is impossible to zoom. In my firefox the view doesn't change at all when I zoom out or in and on Chrome it only changes minimally.
- rolfus 3y agoJust checked in my browser (Vivaldi) and it zooms in and out just fine. On my phone Opera with the "force zoom" setting enabled also works.
- goimonkeen 3y ago[flagged]
- soulbadguy 3y agoI find it interesting that they switch to using lualu from roblock as the scripting environment. I am always curious why so many games techs use Lua for scripting. Especially when designed from scratch
- softfalcon 3y agoIt’s pretty much free to integrate Lua into a game at this point. Anything that can consume a C runtime can embed Lua scripting into itself. As such, we’ve been seeing it as a go to scripting environment for everything from Baldur’s Gate 1, to Warcraft III, to modern titles like Roblox.
- Tossrock 3y agoWorld of Warcraft used Lua, but Warcraft III used a proprietary language called JASS.
- softfalcon 3y agoYou are technically correct though, older versions only used JASS. However, LUA was added to Warcraft 3 in patch 1.31a [1]. > See World Editor Updates for more details on many additions and improvements including beta support for Lua [1](https://liquipedia.net/warcraft/Patch_1.31.0 https://liquipedia.net/warcraft/Patch_1.31.0)
- Tossrock 3y agoOh right, I forgot Reforged (and the accompanying changes to the base game) was a thing
- maccard 3y ago> am always curious why so many games techs use Lua for scripting. It's fast (relative to other scripting languages), familiar, and stupidly easy to embed in a C++ program.
- kaetemi 3y ago
- fennecfoxy 3y agoI meeeeeean: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5KOQkZOusE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5KOQkZOusE Following on from the old https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTqVhcrilrE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTqVhcrilrE Seems Alan Wake still has a bit of foot sliding. I wonder if they're still essentially playing an animation while moving the character "object" in a direction. Surely someone's already come up with a system where the character object isn't directly moved but instead moved in relation to an anchor, ie anchor foot to ground, taking a step naturally moves the character, now the foot in front anchors to the ground as the foot behind lifts. Done this way it would be cool to simulate slippery surfaces along with the ml animation models to get interesting "scrabbling for grip" effects like you see in the BD robots whenever they're kicked/on ice.
- doikor 3y agoSomething like that could work well with NPCs but would most likely introduce delay into the controls on the player character. Basically gameplay beats the animation in this case. On top of this a lot of the time you don't see your characters feet or if you do you are not really focusing on that during gameplay and won't notice them sliding.
- fennecfoxy 3y agoI suppose that's true. I just find it jarring that they've made their decisions for that based on reactivity whereas the entire visual style/physics etc are all "realistic". Once we figure out how to render games in true photorealism, it's gonna be so interesting to see how often studios make these sorts of stylistic/practical choices with animation.
- dagmx 3y agoAs I posted elsewhere, foot sliding is a solved issue technically. But you have to balance every single decision in game design against things like cost per frame and responsiveness. This isn’t some gotcha that the game devs didn’t notice or don’t know how to fix. It’s one they likely either decided had drawbacks or wasn’t an issue in practice.
- belalebrar 3y agoMan I CANNOT wait to play this game.
- redder23 3y agoI wonder if Alan Wake 2 would be possible in Unreal Engine 5. And look similar. Its a bit ironic because it was actually sponsored my Epic Games. The lightning is really gorgeous in the game and as always I think raytracing is not really worth the performance impact if. The game looks almost the exact same without. I wonder if you could tune the lightning in UE5 to look like that, I always wonder how much of a games looks is actually the engine and how much is just the art direction and the devs skills to get out of the engine what they want. I think the game itself was rather disappointing. Too much walking sym, combat was downgraded and less fun, made worse by too few save points at times so you fear to die to not get annoyed to do sections over and over again that makes you hesitant to play on hardest difficulty. Conclusion wall is way to basic and simple you can just quickly trail and error it. And it FORCES you to advance things on the wall that are clear anyway. I had it only one time where I left it for a while and when I look back into it she was like "we already got this" and put on a bunch of cards automatically, but generally speaking you need to advance it all the time. There is one situation, there is a place, where a reviewer passed by countless times and it turns out the key item you need ONLY appears when you advance the wall. Kind of stupid game design. Its a movie game mostly, a "press button to advance story" game. The first was like that as well but I think it had better and more gameplay, better pacing that was actually fun. Writing was obnoxiously pretentious and dragged on for too long. After 10 hours the same Alan Wake tropes get repeated over and over again and the game ends is a cliffhanger to shill some DLC. Really makes me loose my last bit of faith in the gamers, I already do not trust game "journalist" anymore for a long time but I at least could rely on userscores in the past, this game is like praised into high heavens by everyone for no reason. The best think it has to offer is graphics but they to not make for a good game. There are large areas in the game the story does not even lead you though, just some stupid collectibles and these boxes with stuff you do not need. I did not even find the crossbow and did not care to look up where to find it, just had a bunch of arrows. I think the game got many people a boner because of the graphics and their brain shut off. The actual game is actually not that good. And not to forget now how insanely woke the beginning of the game is, thanks to Sweet Baby Inc. they hired to rewrite the game with some woke trash dialog in the beginning and of course the race swap of Saga who was written a white Fin women. Her self made sweater does not fit her at all. 0.5% of Finnish women are black but hey DIVERSITY so they could just keep the story and hot two birds with once stone. My issue is not that she is black, my issue is that she was FORCED in by a company that should not exist, accompanied with woke cringe dialog. Because Remedy does not really care but is taken over by the woke mind virus. If they come up with a original story with a black lead they write themselves I am all for it, but not like this. But nobody cares and I am going to get downvoted for this, I know how it goes.