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Protip to anybody who wants to spend an extended amount of time overseas - you’re looking at a strong opportunity to join the list of people who have their acco
by kylehotchkiss 3y ago
Protip to anybody who wants to spend an extended amount of time overseas - you’re looking at a strong opportunity to join the list of people who have their accounts closed. Red flags include quantity of overseas debit card transactions, setting a PO Box (this one apparently is a very big red flag to banks) or a PMB as your bank address, lots of wire transfers.
Open multiple bank accounts at different banks, use services like wise.com for transfers, and limit your overseas spending with American cards to only a credit card issued with a bank that isn’t the same as your primary accounts.
Yay, patriot act. Glad we have so much energy focusing on legit bankers instead of the crypto that is actually funding multiple US adversaries at this very moment
- max51 3y agoThe bullshit you had to go through is the reason why a lot of people believe in bitcoin even if communities like NN love to pretend there is no use case for crypto.
- constantly 3y agoedit
- jdiff 3y agoCrypto has been a scam from the beginning, the only thing that's changed is the public perception after NFTs bombed massively and crypto was once again left without any use case.
- matheusmoreira 3y agoHuh? I've gotten paid for services in XMR. It already works. Even banks see the benefits of Ethereum.
- vivekd 3y agoDepends on where you live, if you live in Zimbabwe suddenly it starts to look very attractive. Too many countries play fast and loose with their currency.
- Mistletoe 3y agoI live in the USA and it's also very attractive. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/BOGMBASE https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/BOGMBASE
- jancsika 3y agoIt definitely has uses cases. E.g., use it to donate to sci-hub, ... ... It definitely has a use case.
- throw08112023 3y agoHey you dumb fuck, try living in a third world country and you'll find the use case real fast. Actually, you'll find out either way beause USA will collapse soon.
- MrVandemar 3y ago> on balance detrimental to society relatively recently Let's not forget Crypto mining has a not insignificant energy footprint, and is a driver of climate change. Really, detrimental to society from the get-go.
- ClumsyPilot 3y ago> Crypto mining has a not insignificant energy footprint So do casinos and Las Vegas. Its basically the same thing
- hanniabu 3y agoEthereum doesn't use mining and is incredibly energy efficient, estimated at 0.0026 TWh/yr (1/100th of Paypal) https://ethereum.org/en/energy-consumption/ https://ethereum.org/en/energy-consumption/
- JCharante 3y agominting coins and printing bills has a huge energy footprint too
- renewiltord 3y agoPatriot Act expired, no? Also, I've stayed abroad for a year or more and I just swapped the address to a friend's home. Kept my Google Fi, etc. and used my credit cards all internationally alone. I think I visited the US like once in a year and it was fine for the rest of the time. I lost my phone and actually activated my Google Fi SIM from abroad too (needed to use a Wireguard tunnel to the US).
- kylehotchkiss 3y agoI’m very impressed Google fi didn’t shut you off, I’ve heard around the web they do that pretty regularly within 3-4 months of moving
- cft 3y agoThat started only recently, around 2020ish. If you don't use the data (basic plan) and access your sms and vms via a web page using a VPN, you are ok (first hand experience, expat in EU)
- djangpy 3y agoStaying overseas, I also got my account locked last month when I invoiced a consulting client. Seemingly out of nowhere because the previous 22 invoices cleared without an issue. But I am properly set up for this. We initiated a refund, and then I invoiced them through another EU business I set up just for this type of scenario. Then I issued a B2B invoice to my business in Europe, from my LLC in Asia; which then paid it out to me as a salary. Fees are steep, but tax is low; so that balances out.
- zdragnar 3y agoIf you're still an American citizen, don't you technically still owe US to taxes on that "salary"? And since you're paying it as salary, I'm not sure that you're able to deduct any of the fees as expenses from what's owed.
- pests 3y agoThe foreign tax credit is provided to prevent the double tax burden when your foreign source income is taxed by both the United States and the foreign country. You just submit that you already paid taxes on that income to a foreign government and then no additional US taxes (to a limit, I beleive).
- Ridj48dhsnsh 3y agoIt's not that simple. There are a lot more details, but at a minimum you will still need to pay US taxes to the extent that the foreign government taxes at a lower rate. You'll also often still need to pay state income taxes.
- thsksbd 3y agoThat brings up very interesting questions: To which state would one owe taxes to since you're no linger a resident? Similarly, Americans abroad vote, but ppl in DC (not a state) cant? Can I avoid state taxes by sojourning in DC before moving abroad?
- gnicholas 3y agoWhat qualifies as an "extended amount of time overseas"? If you go on a vacation for 6-8 weeks, does that get you in trouble? I would think banks would want to keep big spenders who can afford months-long international travel.
- PumpkinSpice 3y agoA single retail account is of no consequence to a national bank that has tens of millions of customers. It doesn't matter if you're spending $10 or $50,000 a month. They care about you as an individual about as much as Google cares about a single Gmail account. If an algorithm flags you as potential trouble, off you go. If you want better service, there are two ways. One is to be an ultra high net worth individual. But the threshold for that is pretty high - from what I recall, real private banking nowadays starts around $5M to 10M in assets with a single institution. The term "millionaire" doesn't mean as much as it did in the 1990s. The other option is to go with a small local bank or a credit union. If you're in a CU with 10,000 members, it's a lot easier to resolve problems or discuss unique circumstances.
- KRAKRISMOTT 3y agoFor pseudo private banking, HSBC Premier is decent if you travel often to Europe or Asia. They are basically Wise for HNWs with a dash of money laundering thrown in.
- gnicholas 3y agoLooks like they have a $50 monthly account maintenance fee, unless you have $75k on deposit, a qualifying mortgage, or $5k in monthly direct deposit. I guess the latter is the easiest, but this is significantly more onerous than any bank I've looked at.
- KRAKRISMOTT 3y ago$75K/$5K per month is a very low threshold for private banking, other banks usually require somewhere in the three digits range.
- nanidin 3y agoI spent a year traveling in SE Asia circa 2012 and I didn’t have any problems with my bank account. n=1 and all that, and I didn’t have income coming from outside of the US, but I had countless ATM withdrawals and credit card spends. The only time a compliance officer has been in touch with me was when I was moving money to crypto exchanges.
- junofan 3y agoI did something similar and my banker told me to knock it off.
- Ridj48dhsnsh 3y agoWhat exactly did they tell you? I've been doing it for the last 7 years without any problems.
- nanidin 3y agoThe compliance officer was following up with me I think because it looked like I was doing structured transactions, back when crypto exchange max ACH was $500/day. I did some explanation of crypto and he was like “so it’s for investment?” and that was it.
- Klonoar 3y agoThe big factor is whether you change your address or not. Keep your US address on there and VPN (though frankly I’ve never needed to for anything other than Charles Schwab) and you often glide through unnoticed.
- nanidin 3y agoAhh, good point I was running my own VPN with all traffic coming through Dallas for financial stuff.
- csomar 3y ago2023 is very different to 2012. I remember back in the day you can open a paypal account with only an email and receive/send money with it. No kyc required.
- musictubes 3y agoI moved from the US to Yemen from 2006-2008. After I got the travel details figured out I realized I would need some way of getting money while I was there. Freaked out for a bit, figured that with the war on terror ongoing it would prove to be incredibly difficult. Turns out my ATM card worked fine while I was over there. I did let the bank know I would be there and I kept my address in the US though. My card got locked at one point which was a disaster since it was strictly a cash economy. I put the card into an ATM that was apparently being serviced or something. I had to get on Skype (remember Skype?) to call my bank to straighten it out. Once they gave me the go ahead I tried the next day only to be denied again. Turned out Visa wanted to talk to me as well. Thankfully they did not cancel the card, I have no idea how I would have gotten a replacement. Since I told the bank ahead of time that I was going to be going many places the ATM card worked all over the place: Yemen, Dubai, Qatar, Turkey, Greece, Malta… Everywhere except China lol. Had to use my credit card there.
- reaperman 3y agoI got put on a watch list during my time in Saudi and Abu Dhabi. Didnt affect my banking but every plane ticket i got for years had “SSSS”[0] printed/sharpied on it and all my luggage would get a secondary hand-search at every stop immediately pre-boarding both domestically and internationally. I am just average white US citizen who was working on oil rigs but most likely some of my whatsapp/facebook/iMessage contacts were related to families involved in dissidence against the Saudi government (because the oil region of Saudi is populated by a minority Shia group that is severely underrepresented in governance). Their mosques also had individuals with mental health issues who occasionally try to bomb the mosques in a very, very similar parallel to school shooters back home here in USA. 0: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secondary_Security_Screening_Selection https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secondary_Security_Screening...
- kylehotchkiss 3y agoSSSS isn’t related to having financial things. Booking a one way ticket transiting a middle eastern country to the US is often enough.
- 3y ago
- redox99 3y ago> Glad we have so much energy focusing on legit bankers instead of the crypto that is actually funding multiple US adversaries at this very moment Funny you criticize crypto, when it actually solves all the bullshit you're mentioning. It's so nice knowing for a fact that when I send or receive crypto, it will 100% arrive within moments, unlike the absolute shitfest that is international transfers (like SWIFT).
- lxgr 3y agoOn the other hand, crypto provides copious evidence for the need of some level of regulation.
- hanniabu 3y agoThe technology no, the tradfi companies that "use" it (aka custodial user funds) then yes, but those regulations exist since they're no different than any other financial product company.
- psychlops 3y agoFor conversations sake I'm curious about specific evidence. It's also fun to consider which country or group of countries would provide the regulations and enforcement.
- jurynulifcation 3y agoConsumer protections. Until there are rigorous consumer protections, crypto is only fit for scams imo.
- psychlops 3y ago> Consumer protections. Those are covered by local laws. What protections do you think are missing from crypto that is different from other areas?
- 3y ago
- BLKNSLVR 3y agoAgree with everything until the end. There should be more enforcement on dubious banking transactions, numerous Australian banks have had some big fines because they were literally facilitating money laundering on cartel-scale amounts of money for years. Makes me cringe when they crack down on a Joe Nobody who's obviously not, at even a quick glance, some kind of mule / druglord. By crypto I'm assuming you mean USD. Not only USD, but actual US weapons in the hands of US adversaries. Sigh.
- shiroiuma 3y ago>use services like wise.com for transfers Last I heard, wise.com is outright stealing people's money now. Otherwise, this is a good heads-up. Banking for expats can be tricky; a lot of US financial institutions don't want to service customers who live overseas, and will automatically cancel your account if they find out you don't live in the US. The US is looking more and more like the old Soviet Union, where people weren't allowed to leave. Even China doesn't have this problem; there are tons of Chinese expats living in democratic nations, and they don't have problems like this.
- JCharante 3y agoReally? Wise has been reliable for a long time and they've improved the partners they work with in the last year to get much faster transfer times. I've sent around 15-20k usd with wise
- ajhurliman 3y agoWise was reliable and cheap up until October when they cancelled all the business debit cards and changed all business account/ routing numbers, both with a 2 day heads up. There’s no way to pay any of the bills that require debit/credit cards, so I just had to get a brick and mortar account. Wise said they’re “working hard” on getting to issuing new debit cards, but can’t give any sort of timeline. I’ve moved the majority of my money out since it feels like they might fold soon, there’s just a lot of things on autopay with that account so it’s kind of a hassle to move everything off.
- jltsiren 3y agoProtip to anybody dealing with a bureaucracy, no matter whether it's automated or human-based, public or private, fair or oppressive: don't look weird. Bureaucracies function by finding the right category and using the appropriate process for the category. If they can't place you in the right category, you may be in trouble. To avoid that, you can try using products and services that signal the right category, even when they are more expensive and less convenient than the alternatives. Of course, that doesn't help if you don't just look weird but actually are weird. Spending a lot of time overseas is not weird in itself, because it's common enough. Some specific international situations are weird. Because such situations are rare, it's not cost-effective for the bureaucracy to develop processes for dealing with them fairly.
- zlg_codes 3y agoCool ,I'll remember that when I'm starving because my account was frozen. For 'efficiency'. I'm glad they care so much about me as a customer. Banks are about to lose more trust, and money. I'll be doing some research into my credit union as well. Can't trust these institutions, man.
- eganist 3y agoIf you're comfortable sharing, which one?
- zlg_codes 3y agoIt's in the PNW and rhymes with Win Far. Started as a teacher's union before opening up to the general public. I did some brief research into their background when I chose them, since I was looking for a no-frills checking account that wouldn't let me overdraft. Essentially just simple, "safe", normal banking or whatever, without fees. The only catch seems to be that I had to buy a share in the company that I assume they make interest on later. Seems fair enough, and I haven't heard of anyone's account being closed randomly, at least not yet.
- nicbou 3y agoI'm not weird and still got my accounts frozen due to a clerical error by the tax office. So did my tax advisor once. The onus should not be on us to fit their model, but on them to fit their model to reality.
- arthur_sav 3y ago> wise.com Wise is like Paypal 2.0. If you sneeze the wrong way, they'll freeze your account.
- EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 3y agoI have been residing overseas for the last 6 years, living in and visiting 27 countries in total. I also have 5 bank accounts and 9 cards, all registered to a virtual mail address and a VoiP phone number. No problems so far. Protip: chill.
- matwood 3y agoExpanding on your point, when people say 'overseas' they should be more specific. To take an extreme example, spending a bunch of time in France is different than say Somalia.
- EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 3y agoOnly half of those 27 countries were in Europe, others were all kinds of shitholes.
- thewaywego 3y ago>Yay, patriot act. Glad we have so much energy focusing on legit bankers instead of the crypto that is actually funding multiple US adversaries at this very moment I have never in my life seen someone identity a problem and then blame the solution this quickly.
- heisenberg302 3y agoI had an account in Wise, and I was transferring money between my accounts (all the names were same). Everything was legal but they closed my account and started replying to my emails with huge delays. I provided all the supportive documents for the transactions but they said they will keep the account closed (and according to the user agreement, it seems they can do it without providing the reason). They held significant amount of my money in the account, and it took a long time to withdraw it. Also, if you get flagged in one of these services, they usually send your info to similar companies and they either close your account or don't let you create new accounts.