20 ms·

Biohacking Lite (2020)

184 points by daco 3y ago

asicsp 3y ago
Previous discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23501021 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23501021 (731 points | June 12, 2020 | 362 comments)
m463 3y ago
interesting but it doesn't touch on blood sugar and insulin. Insulin is what tells your body to store the excess glucose circulating in your blood in your fat cells. manage your blood sugar for good things.
- sfjailbird 3y ago
  Agree, it's a bit odd that he did not focus on this, since he is obviously aware of it. It's the reason calories in/out is totally insufficient as a guide - what you eat affects hormones, which will hugely affect what you want to eat, and how it is metabolized. The advice about avoiding sugar is also clearly rooted in this effect, but without the explanation it it comes across as just another "mom said".
spondylosaurus 3y ago
> A human body is like an iPhone with a battery pack that can grow nearly indefinitely, and with the abundance of food around us we scarcely unplug from the charging outlet. In this case, the batteries are primarily the adipose tissue and triglycerides (fat) stored within, which are eagerly stockpiled (or sometimes also synthesized!) by your body to be burned for energy in case food becomes scarce. Incidentally, this is how/why liposuction works: if you remove fat cells from a certain area, your body can't store fat in that spot anymore. The flip side being that if you gain weight afterwards, it still has to go somewhere, but you can't/won't store fat in the lipo'd spot. And you can't remove every single fat cell in your body because you do need to store fat to stay alive, but it's good for sculpting specific areas. (I should add that I got a bit of lipo done ~6 months ago and I'm loving it so far. Very little in the way of pounds shed, but it made a huge difference for my silhouette, which is what I wanted.)
- kieckerjan 3y ago
  I am now reading _Eve: How The Female Body Drove 200 Million Years of Human Evolution_, Cat Bohannon's fascinating book on the female body from an evolutionary perspective. Only the first few chapters blew my mind a couple of times. Here is something she writes about liposuction: > It seems that women who have liposuction on their hips and thighs do grow back some of their fat, but they grow it back in different places. [...] As it turns out, women’s fat isn’t the same as men’s. Each fat deposit on our body is a little bit different, but women’s hip, buttock, and upper thigh fat, or “gluteofemoral” fat, is chock-full of unusual lipids: long-chain polyunsaturated fatty acids, or LC-PUFAs. (Think omega-3. Think fish oil.) Our livers are bad at making these kinds of fats from scratch, so we need to get most of them from our diet. And bodies that can become pregnant need them so they can make baby brains and retinas. > Most of the time, female gluteofemoral fat resists being metabolized. As many women know, these areas are the first places we gain weight and the last places we lose it. But in the last trimester of pregnancy—when the fetus ramps up its brain development and its own fat stores—the mother’s body starts retrieving and dumping these special lipids by the boatload into the baby’s body. This specialized hoovering of the mother’s gluteofemoral fat stores continues throughout the first year of breast-feeding—the most important time, as it happens, for infant brain and eye development. Some evolutionary biologists now believe that women evolved to have fatty hips precisely because they’re specialized to provide the building blocks for human babies’ big brains. Since we can’t get enough of those LC-PUFAs from our daily diet, women start storing them from childhood forward. Other primates don't seem to have this pattern. > Meanwhile, we found out just a few years ago--again someone finally asked the question--that a human girl's fat may be one of the best predictors for when she'll get her first period. [...] That is how important this fat is for reproduction. Our ovaries won't even kick in until we've stored up enough of this fat to form a decent baseline.
  - Perceval 3y ago
    I wonder if the childhood obesity trend and trend of younger and younger menses are connected
- charlysisto 3y ago
  Evolution indeed gave us fat storage which is one of those traits becoming unnecessary in the post industrial world of abundance. The problem is our body is more adapted to the too little rather than to the too much. E.g: fasting comes with a flurry of benefits (autophagy, mitophagy, ketones, microbiome reset, inflammation control....) in the absence of which our overall metabolism slowly poisons itself - you know the story, obesity, diabetes and so on. BTW keto (fast mimicking) diet was invited in the 20s in the Mayo clinic to cure epileptic children. I encourage people to have a look at the fascinating "Brain Energy" book from Chris Palmer (or watch him on youtube) to see what's underneath it and how metabolism and brain efficiency are linked
timzaman 3y ago
I recall andrej walking around the office at this time (tesla), bad-mouthing all the sugar products that came into his view, claiming they are weaponized; and very pleased if he saw any nuts. haha good times :)
- jb1991 3y ago
  I’ve known a few people like that. They think they figured out the proper way to live, and they love to judge everyone else’s bad choices. It gets old real fast.
  - tysam_and 3y ago
    Or, he could just be a person with opinions! Andrej seems to be rather down-to-earth from what I've seen ( though of course I could be incorrect D: )
    - jb1991 3y ago
      Being opinionated and being a judgmental are often the same thing. Not always, but one almost always follows the other.
      - tysam_and 3y ago
        Generally speaking, have not found that to be the case (this is a strong opinion for me).
daco 3y ago
> Avoid sugar like the plague, [...]including to a lesser extent natural sugar (apples, bananas, pears, etc - we’ve “weaponized” these fruits in the last few hundred years via strong artificial selection into actual candy bars), berries are ~okay. Is avoiding fruits a good recommendation?
- huytersd 3y ago
  I don’t know but I want this answered.
  - w10-1 3y ago
    fructose is the most bioavailable form of energy
    - euroderf 3y ago
      Fructose is tough on the liver, yes ?
- Elucalidavah 3y ago
  > Is avoiding fruits a good recommendation? Completely avoiding - no. Reducing fruit consumption to some sensible level - definitely. Hence "to a lesser extent".
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- hoseja 3y ago
  Sugarphobia is probably a fad too, along with seedoilphobia etc. Just eat balanced.
- thaumaturgy 3y ago
  If you need a sweet treat, some fruit is fine. If you're just starting to work on your diet and health, and you're trading fruit for chips or cake or any other "hyper-palatable" foods, great! Fresh fruit is undeniably a better choice. But, fruit juice is approximately as good for you as any soda, and as you try to optimize your diet more and more, you'll want more fibrous fruits, less sugary fruits, and eventually a little bit less fruit overall. But by then you'll already be pretty familiar with your goals and diet and how various foods fit in to them.
thomasfromcdnjs 3y ago
Everyone should just try carnivore, it is legit.
- eddtries 3y ago
  I'm skeptical of carnivore diets. I have tried similar diets, such as a meat-heavy keto diet, and while I agree you see a lot of weight loss quickly (mostly water weight though) I noticed a decrease in energy. For example my longer (1hr+) runs saw my mile times get 1-2 minutes longer without carbs. I looked into it and noticed the people I personally think are the fittest, that is ironman triathletes, all tend to follow the Mediterranean diet. I've come to the conclusion that's the best for me, because I've seen my energy levels increase on that diet, and from studies on life longevity etc believe it is THE best diet without starting to min-max specific things that might help individuals.
  - thomasfromcdnjs 3y ago
    Yeah, I just recommend it for people with health issues, and when your healthy again find your own natural diet. I also pretty much eat mediterranean too, makes me feel the best and has to be one of the most delicious diets.
antirez 3y ago
Estimating calories spent with the Apple Watch is not the best way. Just calculate your TDEE as an average, and in a conservative way (if you go to the gym 3 times a week and sit for your daily work you are moderately moving at best). Then use a deficit of 350 (if you are already quite fit) or 500 calories day. Make sure you don't cut too much on any specific macro especially protein while eating at a deficit, and finally lift weights while you are losing weight, to protect muscles over fat. To have the habit of doing 10k steps per day is great, I do it, but I noticed that most people struggle, so this may be something you add gradually. There is no need to complicate things too much. Make sure to: 1. Use an app like MyFitnessPal to track your calories. 2. Never use cheat days, when you don't eat clean (but must be a rare occasion) always stay inside your calories. Remember: a cheat day may compensate 5/6 days of eating at 350cals deficit VERY easily.
- eddtries 3y ago
  I could never make 10k steps routinely until I started jogging. Download the Couch to 5k (c25k) or couch to 10k/half-marathon/marathon and follow the fairly gentle introduction to running. You will hit 5k steps from the easiest runs and get to one hour walk/runs which can be 8k+ steps after a couple weeks. It's so so much easier than trying to just walk and honestly becomes fun after a couple weeks of sucking
- antirez 3y ago
  I noticed that on HN lately calories-deficit driven weight loss is considered controversial. I wonder what do you think about creationism VS evolution, folks.
- swah 3y ago
  My problem is moderation - I can't have a few squares of chocolate or 80g of yogurt, because the good stuff is so good...
shuiling 3y ago
[dead]
hxelk1 3y ago
About a year ago, I did two extended water fasts (24 and 16 days, about 8 weeks apart). I wanted to do a single 40 day one (just for kicks, to see if I last) but stopped after 24 days as I wasn't feeling well. I've lost 18 kg during the first one (102 kg -> 84 kg), then quickly regained about 4 kg, and lost about 10 kg during the second one (88 -> 78). After the second fast, I started resistance training between two and four times a week (with a brain-endowed gym coach). I'm currently down 14 kg (88 kg), but gained quite a lot of muscle. Though I can't recommend water fasting on blanket terms, if you're like me and you prefer short-term intense stress to long-term baseline stress, you may find that it's a great way to lose a lot of weight quickly, start feeling better about yourself and what your body is capable of, and get on the path to a healthier life style. It was truly a remarkable experience. For me, the trigger was https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaWVflQolmM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaWVflQolmM.
- g-b-r 3y ago
  Damn this seemed to mean 24 days without drinking water....
  - hxelk1 3y ago
    Haha, yeah, the name is very confusing :)
- Perz1val 3y ago
  Did you just yolo it or had a doctor supervising?
  - hxelk1 3y ago
    I tried to get my GP involved. Called the doctor's office, told the nurse about my endeavor and asked for a checkup (this was a week into the fast). The nurse basically told me that while she saw value in what I did, the doctor doesn't approve of fasting, and that it would be better to not even ask. She gave me contact info of another doctor, who was however five years dead by the time I tried to reach her the next morning. I figured out I won't let this stop me.
jrflowers 3y ago
TLDR: > maintaining an average deficit of 500kcal per day did lead to about 60% of the expected weight loss over the course of a year.
carlsborg 3y ago
The Mifflin-St Jeor equation equation for working out Base Metabolic Rate, as stated in this post, is for males. The original subtracts a different constant for females (-161 instead of -5). It is a 1990 paper. And it subtracts these arbitrary constants independent of the other variables, makes me think its limited in its usefulness. I believe that weight training, maybe even cardio, increases this BMR for many hours after the workout, so I dont agree with the "not a major contributor to losing weight" argument if its done regularly.
- stefs 3y ago
  yeah, it's a bit strange. generally, most papers say exercise isn't a huge contributor but at least in my case it makes all the difference. theoretically muscle mass burns few additional calories (see https://www.strongerbyscience.com/calories-muscle-burn/ https://www.strongerbyscience.com/calories-muscle-burn/) and you have to a lot of cardio to significantly push the envelope. as soon as i start weight training 3 times a week or endurance training 5 times a week (i'm bad at combining the two) i have to up my intake significantly just to keep my weight at the same level and gaining often means eating more than i'm comfortable with (considering my dietary preferences).
  - tysam_and 3y ago
    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17101527/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17101527/
    - PNewling 3y ago
      How does the paper you posted, about post exercise oxygen consumption, relate to weight loss as we have been discussing here? I don't mean this to be flippant, I just don't have time to do a deep dive on this paper and you didn't provide any context.
      - tysam_and 3y ago
        Reading the abstract is always a good start! ;PPPP "A number of investigators in the first half of the last century reported prolonged EPOC durations and that the EPOC was a major component of the thermic effect of activity. It was therefore thought that the EPOC was a major contributor to total daily energy expenditure and hence the maintenance of body mass. Investigations conducted over the last two or three decades have improved the experimental protocols used in the pioneering studies and therefore have more accurately characterized the EPOC. Evidence has accumulated to suggest an exponential relationship between exercise intensity and the magnitude of the EPOC for specific exercise durations. ... Notwithstanding the aforementioned, the earlier research optimism regarding an important role for the EPOC in weight loss is generally unfounded. This is further reinforced by acknowledging that the exercise stimuli required to promote a prolonged EPOC are unlikely to be tolerated by non-athletic individuals. The role of exercise in the maintenance of body mass is therefore predominantly mediated via the cumulative effect of the energy expenditure during the actual exercise."
WithinReason 3y ago
(2020)
kashif 3y ago
Wow, how much time is spent in composing these detailed and well illustrated posts!
lifeline82 3y ago
Human lost 1degree celsius of bodytemp in the last century. Base metabolic rate dropped 10% in the last 30 years. Modern diet are triggering torpor mechanism in human, blocking them into turning sugar to heat (thermogenesis), forcing them to store it into fat. An american aged 20 in 1970 would have 5 times more chance to be obese in 2000 compared to a french or swiss of same age, while consumming on average 500calories less per day which represents a deficit bigger than 7millions calories over 30 years.
- n2d4 3y ago
  The actual temperature delta is more like 0.3°C for two people born a century apart: https://elifesciences.org/articles/49555 https://elifesciences.org/articles/49555
peteforde 3y ago
I am confident that I'm in good company when I say that I hit this sort of paragraph like a brick wall: > Do not drink any calories (no soda, no alcohol, no juices, avoid milk). Avoid sugar like the plague, including carbohydrate-heavy foods that immediately break down to sugar (bread, rice, pasta, potatoes), including to a lesser extent natural sugar (apples, bananas, pears, etc - we’ve “weaponized” these fruits in the last few hundred years via strong artificial selection into actual candy bars), berries are ~okay. Avoid processed food. Look, I have nothing but respect for people who can read that and think, oh, cool, I hate everything that tastes good, is easy to access and leaves me feeling satisfied. For those of us who are still yoked in service to evil things like rice, this paragraph just makes us feel like we're fucked. Also: even introverts who love cooking at home occasionally have to go for dinner with clients, relatives or friends. While it's true that you can just order some naked bitter greens, this often doesn't feel like a socially normal thing to do (even though norms are changing, especially in large and progressive cities).
- Crystalin 3y ago
  It is surprisingly easy from a "feeling" perspective. Once you stop eating those, your body will become more addicted to other food. However, a single drop of sugar during your diet will make you starve for more sugar (That is what most people experience during their day and why they think avoiding soda is impossible)
- eddtries 3y ago
  I agree this sucks and I personally struggle to follow anything this strict because I love cooking AND I love eating (the perfect storm for obesity, sadly). However I found a good middle ground is to focus on "Avoid processed food" and sticking to whole foods. Try buy things that don't have bar codes, or stick to the outside of the supermarket (where they tend to put the fresh produce), or whatever.
  - amanaplanacanal 3y ago
    This is my strategy also. Do your shopping in the produce, butcher, and dairy sections. Stay away from the boxed crap in the middle, and at least for me the bakery section will likely be my eventual downfall. Of course this requires that you learn to cook, and have the time to do it. If you are going to restaurants all the time it’s a lot harder.
lagt_t 3y ago
Eat everything, eat balanced, count calories. Everything else is bad advice.
tpush 3y ago
> Avoid sugar like the plague, including carbohydrate-heavy foods that immediately break down to sugar (bread, rice, pasta, potatoes), including to a lesser extent natural sugar (apples, bananas, pears, etc - we’ve “weaponized” these fruits in the last few hundred years via strong artificial selection into actual candy bars), berries are ~okay. This is not an evidence-based approach. I swear all these nutrition grifter folks on YouTube and Twitter melted certain people's brain.
- davedx 3y ago
  Yup. Negotiating any writings on nutrition is like walking through an endless minefield of hearsay and bullshit. Otherwise a pretty good article though I thought.
- matisseverduyn 3y ago
  Avoiding sugar and fat is evidence-based, but wayyy too broadly applied. Depends on the person, the condition, and the rest of the diet. Some people who shouldn't be eating broccoli are... some people who should be eating fats are avoiding them... some people who should be eating sucrose are avoiding it because they think it's the same as taking in glucose and fructose independently. Lots of people replaced butter with margarine, which was worse. Another comment claims: "I recall andrej walking around the office at this time (tesla), bad-mouthing all the sugar products that came into his view, claiming they are weaponized; and very pleased if he saw any nuts." [1] This advice would actually kill me fairly quickly if I didn't know any better. The internet is full of prescriptions without qualifiers, and desperate people, (feeling very ill without answers from their doctors, or no access), willing to believe whatever opinions they find because it fits their current perspective without deviating too much. It might be better to just give people the tools they need to understand what's happening [2], and let them listen to their own symptoms to make changes, if they're willing and capable... [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38110001 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38110001 [2] https://www.roche.com/about/philanthropy/science-education/biochemical-pathways https://www.roche.com/about/philanthropy/science-education/b...
JR1427 3y ago
I can't be bothered to read the article, but I recently discovered I can lose weight fairly easily by, wait for it... just eating a little bit less of everything I already eat. Other than that, the only conscious change was to sometimes substitute a chocolate snack with an apple.
- JR1427 3y ago
  I should say that I did weigh myself every day. No need to analyse, but you do need feedback in order to know if what you're doing is working.
  - LastTrain 3y ago
    Same here, measure and eat less, but everyone is different and may require a different ritual. Whatever works!
  - majkinetor 3y ago
    Loosing it is easy, keeping it is superb hard. Call me in 5 years when you return everything and add some more as your diet is unsustainable.
    - JR1427 3y ago
      That's why it is important to keep weighing yourself, as it is very hard to otherwise notice slow weight gain.
- mnemoni_c 3y ago
  There has to be something like Dunning–Kruger effect but for situation where you try to improve something, learn a convoluted (and rarely scientifically confirmed) solution, apply it for like a month only to then crash back to the start and realise there is no workaround to eating less calories for example Instead of accepting that big, sustainable changes are not achieved through shortcuts, my brain needed some convoluted or painful solutions (like extended water fasting) which also makes you think like you "cracked the code" and you are better than your mum who told you to just not eat sugar
liampulles 3y ago
My biggest problem is eating something that makes me feel full, tastes good, can be prepared easily (or at least cookable and storable in bulk) and that does not turn into fat. Very open to suggestions here
- cassianoleal 3y ago
  Everything that can be used for energy will be stored as fat once you eat enough of it. What doesn’t just gets excreted. With that in mind, potatoes have a pretty high satiety index and I think they fit your criteria.
- dorfsmay 3y ago
  For satiety you need fiber and protein. All energy above your caloric needs turn into fat, regardless of what food source it comes from. Beans, lentils and whole grains have plenty of both protein and fiber. Meat and fish has plenty of protein. Fruits and other veggies have plenty of fiber. Personally I track my food to stay at a reasonable amount of calorie, ensure I have enough protein an fiber (I aim at 1.6g per kg of mass and above 50g per day respectively) and try to reach recommendations for vitamins and minerals, pick a guide for those, they're all more or less the same, most tracker apps use the US FDA one. It's really important to ramp up the amount of fiber, sudden increase will lead to bad news.
mfld 3y ago
Related question: is anyone happily using a walking pad or similar while coding?
phkx 3y ago
https://karpathy.github.io/2020/06/11/biohacking-lite/ https://karpathy.github.io/2020/06/11/biohacking-lite/ please use https links
francasso 3y ago
Great post, I had a different experience with the diet though. I lost 17kg in circa 4 months (an average of 1% body mass per week) while eating mostly carbs (240 g of pasta a day, 3 or 4 fruits) and vegetables. A couple of times a week I would eat 300g of chicken. The only physical exercise I do is running for 20 to 30 mins 3 times a week. I have to say I'm quite happy with the diet, I basically never feel hungry and I love pasta so it's enjoyable. Obviously you can't just cover the pasta in a calorie dense sauce and expect to lose weight, you still need to keep an eye on the calories.
- fadedsignal 3y ago
  What was your daily diet? Can you provide some details?
  - francasso 3y ago
    I skip breakfast (always did, not something that started with the diet), for lunch 120 g of pasta usually with tomato sauce, a banana and an apple. In the afternoon sometime I have a snack of some sort (between 150 to 300 kcal). For dinner either pasta with veggies, or a couple of potatoes with veggies cooked in an air fryer, or chicken a potato and veggies, again in an air fryer. I add more fruit of I'm still hungry. I drink water only, no liquid calories. I have a cheat meal two or three times a week (nothing crazy though, like I would eat a pizza and some cake for the cheat meal)
pallas_athena 3y ago
This has been the /fit/ sticky basically forever, and it's always a great read: https://liamrosen.com/fitness.html https://liamrosen.com/fitness.html

184 points by daco 3y ago

Previous discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23501021 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23501021 (731 points | June 12, 2020 | 362 comments)

m463 3y ago

interesting but it doesn't touch on blood sugar and insulin. Insulin is what tells your body to store the excess glucose circulating in your blood in your fat cells. manage your blood sugar for good things.

sfjailbird 3y ago
Agree, it's a bit odd that he did not focus on this, since he is obviously aware of it. It's the reason calories in/out is totally insufficient as a guide - what you eat affects hormones, which will hugely affect what you want to eat, and how it is metabolized. The advice about avoiding sugar is also clearly rooted in this effect, but without the explanation it it comes across as just another "mom said".

spondylosaurus 3y ago

> A human body is like an iPhone with a battery pack that can grow nearly indefinitely, and with the abundance of food around us we scarcely unplug from the charging outlet. In this case, the batteries are primarily the adipose tissue and triglycerides (fat) stored within, which are eagerly stockpiled (or sometimes also synthesized!) by your body to be burned for energy in case food becomes scarce. Incidentally, this is how/why liposuction works: if you remove fat cells from a certain area, your body can't store fat in that spot anymore. The flip side being that if you gain weight afterwards, it still has to go somewhere, but you can't/won't store fat in the lipo'd spot. And you can't remove every single fat cell in your body because you do need to store fat to stay alive, but it's good for sculpting specific areas. (I should add that I got a bit of lipo done ~6 months ago and I'm loving it so far. Very little in the way of pounds shed, but it made a huge difference for my silhouette, which is what I wanted.)

kieckerjan 3y ago
I am now reading _Eve: How The Female Body Drove 200 Million Years of Human Evolution_, Cat Bohannon's fascinating book on the female body from an evolutionary perspective. Only the first few chapters blew my mind a couple of times. Here is something she writes about liposuction: > It seems that women who have liposuction on their hips and thighs do grow back some of their fat, but they grow it back in different places. [...] As it turns out, women’s fat isn’t the same as men’s. Each fat deposit on our body is a little bit different, but women’s hip, buttock, and upper thigh fat, or “gluteofemoral” fat, is chock-full of unusual lipids: long-chain polyunsaturated fatty acids, or LC-PUFAs. (Think omega-3. Think fish oil.) Our livers are bad at making these kinds of fats from scratch, so we need to get most of them from our diet. And bodies that can become pregnant need them so they can make baby brains and retinas. > Most of the time, female gluteofemoral fat resists being metabolized. As many women know, these areas are the first places we gain weight and the last places we lose it. But in the last trimester of pregnancy—when the fetus ramps up its brain development and its own fat stores—the mother’s body starts retrieving and dumping these special lipids by the boatload into the baby’s body. This specialized hoovering of the mother’s gluteofemoral fat stores continues throughout the first year of breast-feeding—the most important time, as it happens, for infant brain and eye development. Some evolutionary biologists now believe that women evolved to have fatty hips precisely because they’re specialized to provide the building blocks for human babies’ big brains. Since we can’t get enough of those LC-PUFAs from our daily diet, women start storing them from childhood forward. Other primates don't seem to have this pattern. > Meanwhile, we found out just a few years ago--again someone finally asked the question--that a human girl's fat may be one of the best predictors for when she'll get her first period. [...] That is how important this fat is for reproduction. Our ovaries won't even kick in until we've stored up enough of this fat to form a decent baseline.
- Perceval 3y ago
  I wonder if the childhood obesity trend and trend of younger and younger menses are connected
charlysisto 3y ago
Evolution indeed gave us fat storage which is one of those traits becoming unnecessary in the post industrial world of abundance. The problem is our body is more adapted to the too little rather than to the too much. E.g: fasting comes with a flurry of benefits (autophagy, mitophagy, ketones, microbiome reset, inflammation control....) in the absence of which our overall metabolism slowly poisons itself - you know the story, obesity, diabetes and so on. BTW keto (fast mimicking) diet was invited in the 20s in the Mayo clinic to cure epileptic children. I encourage people to have a look at the fascinating "Brain Energy" book from Chris Palmer (or watch him on youtube) to see what's underneath it and how metabolism and brain efficiency are linked

timzaman 3y ago

I recall andrej walking around the office at this time (tesla), bad-mouthing all the sugar products that came into his view, claiming they are weaponized; and very pleased if he saw any nuts. haha good times :)

jb1991 3y ago
I’ve known a few people like that. They think they figured out the proper way to live, and they love to judge everyone else’s bad choices. It gets old real fast.
- tysam_and 3y ago
  Or, he could just be a person with opinions! Andrej seems to be rather down-to-earth from what I've seen ( though of course I could be incorrect D: )
  - jb1991 3y ago
    Being opinionated and being a judgmental are often the same thing. Not always, but one almost always follows the other.
    - tysam_and 3y ago
      Generally speaking, have not found that to be the case (this is a strong opinion for me).

daco 3y ago

> Avoid sugar like the plague, [...]including to a lesser extent natural sugar (apples, bananas, pears, etc - we’ve “weaponized” these fruits in the last few hundred years via strong artificial selection into actual candy bars), berries are ~okay. Is avoiding fruits a good recommendation?

huytersd 3y ago
I don’t know but I want this answered.
- w10-1 3y ago
  fructose is the most bioavailable form of energy
  - euroderf 3y ago
    Fructose is tough on the liver, yes ?
Elucalidavah 3y ago
> Is avoiding fruits a good recommendation? Completely avoiding - no. Reducing fruit consumption to some sensible level - definitely. Hence "to a lesser extent".
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
hoseja 3y ago
Sugarphobia is probably a fad too, along with seedoilphobia etc. Just eat balanced.
thaumaturgy 3y ago
If you need a sweet treat, some fruit is fine. If you're just starting to work on your diet and health, and you're trading fruit for chips or cake or any other "hyper-palatable" foods, great! Fresh fruit is undeniably a better choice. But, fruit juice is approximately as good for you as any soda, and as you try to optimize your diet more and more, you'll want more fibrous fruits, less sugary fruits, and eventually a little bit less fruit overall. But by then you'll already be pretty familiar with your goals and diet and how various foods fit in to them.

thomasfromcdnjs 3y ago

Everyone should just try carnivore, it is legit.

eddtries 3y ago
I'm skeptical of carnivore diets. I have tried similar diets, such as a meat-heavy keto diet, and while I agree you see a lot of weight loss quickly (mostly water weight though) I noticed a decrease in energy. For example my longer (1hr+) runs saw my mile times get 1-2 minutes longer without carbs. I looked into it and noticed the people I personally think are the fittest, that is ironman triathletes, all tend to follow the Mediterranean diet. I've come to the conclusion that's the best for me, because I've seen my energy levels increase on that diet, and from studies on life longevity etc believe it is THE best diet without starting to min-max specific things that might help individuals.
- thomasfromcdnjs 3y ago
  Yeah, I just recommend it for people with health issues, and when your healthy again find your own natural diet. I also pretty much eat mediterranean too, makes me feel the best and has to be one of the most delicious diets.

antirez 3y ago

Estimating calories spent with the Apple Watch is not the best way. Just calculate your TDEE as an average, and in a conservative way (if you go to the gym 3 times a week and sit for your daily work you are moderately moving at best). Then use a deficit of 350 (if you are already quite fit) or 500 calories day. Make sure you don't cut too much on any specific macro especially protein while eating at a deficit, and finally lift weights while you are losing weight, to protect muscles over fat. To have the habit of doing 10k steps per day is great, I do it, but I noticed that most people struggle, so this may be something you add gradually. There is no need to complicate things too much. Make sure to: 1. Use an app like MyFitnessPal to track your calories. 2. Never use cheat days, when you don't eat clean (but must be a rare occasion) always stay inside your calories. Remember: a cheat day may compensate 5/6 days of eating at 350cals deficit VERY easily.

eddtries 3y ago
I could never make 10k steps routinely until I started jogging. Download the Couch to 5k (c25k) or couch to 10k/half-marathon/marathon and follow the fairly gentle introduction to running. You will hit 5k steps from the easiest runs and get to one hour walk/runs which can be 8k+ steps after a couple weeks. It's so so much easier than trying to just walk and honestly becomes fun after a couple weeks of sucking
antirez 3y ago
I noticed that on HN lately calories-deficit driven weight loss is considered controversial. I wonder what do you think about creationism VS evolution, folks.
swah 3y ago
My problem is moderation - I can't have a few squares of chocolate or 80g of yogurt, because the good stuff is so good...

shuiling 3y ago

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hxelk1 3y ago

About a year ago, I did two extended water fasts (24 and 16 days, about 8 weeks apart). I wanted to do a single 40 day one (just for kicks, to see if I last) but stopped after 24 days as I wasn't feeling well. I've lost 18 kg during the first one (102 kg -> 84 kg), then quickly regained about 4 kg, and lost about 10 kg during the second one (88 -> 78). After the second fast, I started resistance training between two and four times a week (with a brain-endowed gym coach). I'm currently down 14 kg (88 kg), but gained quite a lot of muscle. Though I can't recommend water fasting on blanket terms, if you're like me and you prefer short-term intense stress to long-term baseline stress, you may find that it's a great way to lose a lot of weight quickly, start feeling better about yourself and what your body is capable of, and get on the path to a healthier life style. It was truly a remarkable experience. For me, the trigger was https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaWVflQolmM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaWVflQolmM.

g-b-r 3y ago
Damn this seemed to mean 24 days without drinking water....
- hxelk1 3y ago
  Haha, yeah, the name is very confusing :)
Perz1val 3y ago
Did you just yolo it or had a doctor supervising?
- hxelk1 3y ago
  I tried to get my GP involved. Called the doctor's office, told the nurse about my endeavor and asked for a checkup (this was a week into the fast). The nurse basically told me that while she saw value in what I did, the doctor doesn't approve of fasting, and that it would be better to not even ask. She gave me contact info of another doctor, who was however five years dead by the time I tried to reach her the next morning. I figured out I won't let this stop me.

jrflowers 3y ago

TLDR: > maintaining an average deficit of 500kcal per day did lead to about 60% of the expected weight loss over the course of a year.

carlsborg 3y ago

The Mifflin-St Jeor equation equation for working out Base Metabolic Rate, as stated in this post, is for males. The original subtracts a different constant for females (-161 instead of -5). It is a 1990 paper. And it subtracts these arbitrary constants independent of the other variables, makes me think its limited in its usefulness. I believe that weight training, maybe even cardio, increases this BMR for many hours after the workout, so I dont agree with the "not a major contributor to losing weight" argument if its done regularly.

stefs 3y ago
yeah, it's a bit strange. generally, most papers say exercise isn't a huge contributor but at least in my case it makes all the difference. theoretically muscle mass burns few additional calories (see https://www.strongerbyscience.com/calories-muscle-burn/ https://www.strongerbyscience.com/calories-muscle-burn/) and you have to a lot of cardio to significantly push the envelope. as soon as i start weight training 3 times a week or endurance training 5 times a week (i'm bad at combining the two) i have to up my intake significantly just to keep my weight at the same level and gaining often means eating more than i'm comfortable with (considering my dietary preferences).
- tysam_and 3y ago
  https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17101527/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17101527/
  - PNewling 3y ago
    How does the paper you posted, about post exercise oxygen consumption, relate to weight loss as we have been discussing here? I don't mean this to be flippant, I just don't have time to do a deep dive on this paper and you didn't provide any context.
    - tysam_and 3y ago
      Reading the abstract is always a good start! ;PPPP "A number of investigators in the first half of the last century reported prolonged EPOC durations and that the EPOC was a major component of the thermic effect of activity. It was therefore thought that the EPOC was a major contributor to total daily energy expenditure and hence the maintenance of body mass. Investigations conducted over the last two or three decades have improved the experimental protocols used in the pioneering studies and therefore have more accurately characterized the EPOC. Evidence has accumulated to suggest an exponential relationship between exercise intensity and the magnitude of the EPOC for specific exercise durations. ... Notwithstanding the aforementioned, the earlier research optimism regarding an important role for the EPOC in weight loss is generally unfounded. This is further reinforced by acknowledging that the exercise stimuli required to promote a prolonged EPOC are unlikely to be tolerated by non-athletic individuals. The role of exercise in the maintenance of body mass is therefore predominantly mediated via the cumulative effect of the energy expenditure during the actual exercise."

WithinReason 3y ago

(2020)

kashif 3y ago

Wow, how much time is spent in composing these detailed and well illustrated posts!

lifeline82 3y ago

Human lost 1degree celsius of bodytemp in the last century. Base metabolic rate dropped 10% in the last 30 years. Modern diet are triggering torpor mechanism in human, blocking them into turning sugar to heat (thermogenesis), forcing them to store it into fat. An american aged 20 in 1970 would have 5 times more chance to be obese in 2000 compared to a french or swiss of same age, while consumming on average 500calories less per day which represents a deficit bigger than 7millions calories over 30 years.

n2d4 3y ago
The actual temperature delta is more like 0.3°C for two people born a century apart: https://elifesciences.org/articles/49555 https://elifesciences.org/articles/49555

peteforde 3y ago

I am confident that I'm in good company when I say that I hit this sort of paragraph like a brick wall: > Do not drink any calories (no soda, no alcohol, no juices, avoid milk). Avoid sugar like the plague, including carbohydrate-heavy foods that immediately break down to sugar (bread, rice, pasta, potatoes), including to a lesser extent natural sugar (apples, bananas, pears, etc - we’ve “weaponized” these fruits in the last few hundred years via strong artificial selection into actual candy bars), berries are ~okay. Avoid processed food. Look, I have nothing but respect for people who can read that and think, oh, cool, I hate everything that tastes good, is easy to access and leaves me feeling satisfied. For those of us who are still yoked in service to evil things like rice, this paragraph just makes us feel like we're fucked. Also: even introverts who love cooking at home occasionally have to go for dinner with clients, relatives or friends. While it's true that you can just order some naked bitter greens, this often doesn't feel like a socially normal thing to do (even though norms are changing, especially in large and progressive cities).

Crystalin 3y ago
It is surprisingly easy from a "feeling" perspective. Once you stop eating those, your body will become more addicted to other food. However, a single drop of sugar during your diet will make you starve for more sugar (That is what most people experience during their day and why they think avoiding soda is impossible)
eddtries 3y ago
I agree this sucks and I personally struggle to follow anything this strict because I love cooking AND I love eating (the perfect storm for obesity, sadly). However I found a good middle ground is to focus on "Avoid processed food" and sticking to whole foods. Try buy things that don't have bar codes, or stick to the outside of the supermarket (where they tend to put the fresh produce), or whatever.
- amanaplanacanal 3y ago
  This is my strategy also. Do your shopping in the produce, butcher, and dairy sections. Stay away from the boxed crap in the middle, and at least for me the bakery section will likely be my eventual downfall. Of course this requires that you learn to cook, and have the time to do it. If you are going to restaurants all the time it’s a lot harder.

lagt_t 3y ago

Eat everything, eat balanced, count calories. Everything else is bad advice.

tpush 3y ago

> Avoid sugar like the plague, including carbohydrate-heavy foods that immediately break down to sugar (bread, rice, pasta, potatoes), including to a lesser extent natural sugar (apples, bananas, pears, etc - we’ve “weaponized” these fruits in the last few hundred years via strong artificial selection into actual candy bars), berries are ~okay. This is not an evidence-based approach. I swear all these nutrition grifter folks on YouTube and Twitter melted certain people's brain.

davedx 3y ago
Yup. Negotiating any writings on nutrition is like walking through an endless minefield of hearsay and bullshit. Otherwise a pretty good article though I thought.
matisseverduyn 3y ago
Avoiding sugar and fat is evidence-based, but wayyy too broadly applied. Depends on the person, the condition, and the rest of the diet. Some people who shouldn't be eating broccoli are... some people who should be eating fats are avoiding them... some people who should be eating sucrose are avoiding it because they think it's the same as taking in glucose and fructose independently. Lots of people replaced butter with margarine, which was worse. Another comment claims: "I recall andrej walking around the office at this time (tesla), bad-mouthing all the sugar products that came into his view, claiming they are weaponized; and very pleased if he saw any nuts." [1] This advice would actually kill me fairly quickly if I didn't know any better. The internet is full of prescriptions without qualifiers, and desperate people, (feeling very ill without answers from their doctors, or no access), willing to believe whatever opinions they find because it fits their current perspective without deviating too much. It might be better to just give people the tools they need to understand what's happening [2], and let them listen to their own symptoms to make changes, if they're willing and capable... [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38110001 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38110001 [2] https://www.roche.com/about/philanthropy/science-education/biochemical-pathways https://www.roche.com/about/philanthropy/science-education/b...

JR1427 3y ago

I can't be bothered to read the article, but I recently discovered I can lose weight fairly easily by, wait for it... just eating a little bit less of everything I already eat. Other than that, the only conscious change was to sometimes substitute a chocolate snack with an apple.

JR1427 3y ago
I should say that I did weigh myself every day. No need to analyse, but you do need feedback in order to know if what you're doing is working.
- LastTrain 3y ago
  Same here, measure and eat less, but everyone is different and may require a different ritual. Whatever works!
- majkinetor 3y ago
  Loosing it is easy, keeping it is superb hard. Call me in 5 years when you return everything and add some more as your diet is unsustainable.
  - JR1427 3y ago
    That's why it is important to keep weighing yourself, as it is very hard to otherwise notice slow weight gain.
mnemoni_c 3y ago
There has to be something like Dunning–Kruger effect but for situation where you try to improve something, learn a convoluted (and rarely scientifically confirmed) solution, apply it for like a month only to then crash back to the start and realise there is no workaround to eating less calories for example Instead of accepting that big, sustainable changes are not achieved through shortcuts, my brain needed some convoluted or painful solutions (like extended water fasting) which also makes you think like you "cracked the code" and you are better than your mum who told you to just not eat sugar

liampulles 3y ago

My biggest problem is eating something that makes me feel full, tastes good, can be prepared easily (or at least cookable and storable in bulk) and that does not turn into fat. Very open to suggestions here

cassianoleal 3y ago
Everything that can be used for energy will be stored as fat once you eat enough of it. What doesn’t just gets excreted. With that in mind, potatoes have a pretty high satiety index and I think they fit your criteria.
dorfsmay 3y ago
For satiety you need fiber and protein. All energy above your caloric needs turn into fat, regardless of what food source it comes from. Beans, lentils and whole grains have plenty of both protein and fiber. Meat and fish has plenty of protein. Fruits and other veggies have plenty of fiber. Personally I track my food to stay at a reasonable amount of calorie, ensure I have enough protein an fiber (I aim at 1.6g per kg of mass and above 50g per day respectively) and try to reach recommendations for vitamins and minerals, pick a guide for those, they're all more or less the same, most tracker apps use the US FDA one. It's really important to ramp up the amount of fiber, sudden increase will lead to bad news.

mfld 3y ago

Related question: is anyone happily using a walking pad or similar while coding?

phkx 3y ago

https://karpathy.github.io/2020/06/11/biohacking-lite/ https://karpathy.github.io/2020/06/11/biohacking-lite/ please use https links

francasso 3y ago

Great post, I had a different experience with the diet though. I lost 17kg in circa 4 months (an average of 1% body mass per week) while eating mostly carbs (240 g of pasta a day, 3 or 4 fruits) and vegetables. A couple of times a week I would eat 300g of chicken. The only physical exercise I do is running for 20 to 30 mins 3 times a week. I have to say I'm quite happy with the diet, I basically never feel hungry and I love pasta so it's enjoyable. Obviously you can't just cover the pasta in a calorie dense sauce and expect to lose weight, you still need to keep an eye on the calories.

fadedsignal 3y ago
What was your daily diet? Can you provide some details?
- francasso 3y ago
  I skip breakfast (always did, not something that started with the diet), for lunch 120 g of pasta usually with tomato sauce, a banana and an apple. In the afternoon sometime I have a snack of some sort (between 150 to 300 kcal). For dinner either pasta with veggies, or a couple of potatoes with veggies cooked in an air fryer, or chicken a potato and veggies, again in an air fryer. I add more fruit of I'm still hungry. I drink water only, no liquid calories. I have a cheat meal two or three times a week (nothing crazy though, like I would eat a pizza and some cake for the cheat meal)

pallas_athena 3y ago

This has been the /fit/ sticky basically forever, and it's always a great read: https://liamrosen.com/fitness.html https://liamrosen.com/fitness.html