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Raspberry Pi 5: available now
- amelius 3y agoBut is it still the most attractive SBC at its price point?
- pizza234 3y agoI haven't checked, but Odroid are/were more competitive AFAIR (RPi's have a better software support, though).
- justin66 3y agoIf you aren't buying a thousand of them, how much does "price point" really matter to you?
- dividedbyzero 3y agoLots of people buy these on a finite hobby budget.
- justin66 3y agoIs there some missing context here, like "...and they only have ten dollars to spend on hobbies during the entirety of 2023 due to the famine wracking their homeland?" I mean, when you're talking about things (items in your "finite hobby budget") that cost less than a hundred dollars, why are you going to fuss about the "price point?" I am intrigued by how much this appears to matter to people who comment on Raspberry Pi threads. Hobbyists spent, at times, thousands or even tens of thousands of dollars on microcomputers in the eighties, and that was real money back then. Even the quaint ZX whatevers that were sold in Europe were, in inflation-adjusted terms, much more expensive than a Pi. Perhaps that's why I find these recurring concerns about how much an inexpensive SBC costs to be a bit baffling, particularly in the case of a hobbiest who is only buying one of them.
- lagniappe 3y agoThere exists life outside of the first world where that 10 dollars is worth more
- timthorn 3y agoIf you're a child not earning your own money, price point matters enormously. I remember rarely ordering electronic components from Maplin because of the P&P charge which was massive compared to my pocket money. Though I did get a buzz from my first CASHTEL order: https://worldradiohistory.com/UK/Mapelin/Maplin%20Electronics%201983-06.pdf https://worldradiohistory.com/UK/Mapelin/Maplin%20Electronic...
- justin66 3y agoSo my missing context as to why people obsess over price differences on the order of $20 when talking about single-board computers in Raspberry Pi-related comment threads is... they're thinking of the children?
- timthorn 3y agoThat's the market RPi was initially established for
- justin66 3y agoAnd there is a much more powerful Raspberry Pi (model 3) available at the original price point of the Raspberry Pi. Or others like the zero that are even cheaper, and still more capable in some ways. I'm not sure having a new one available that is quite a bit more powerful and costs $25 more is hurting those kids.
- peppercat10 3y agoInexpensive isn't a fixed value. A hobbyist can be someone able to splurge thousands on tech because they find it fun, but they may as well just be someone who only has 50€ at the end of the month and wants to tinker with a microcomputer they read about online.
- michaelt 3y ago> If you aren't buying a thousand of them, how much does "price point" really matter to you? A lot of recreational tinkerers are already giving up their free time, and accepting a slightly inferior product to the commercial options. To also spend more would be a step too far :) Getting my 20-year-old mono laser printer network-enabled with $20 of hardware: Smart, e-waste-reducing move, even if it only supports 300dpi. Doing the same thing with $100 of hardware: Why waste the time, when a brand new mono laser would cost less, offer better print quality, and have built in wifi? Setting up a DIY networked camera with $50 of hardware: Fun little hobby project, maybe more secure than the sketchy cloud options and cheap imports that never get firmware updates. Doing the same thing with $130 of hardware: Just buy from Axis or Pelco or whoever. They'll have figured out the waterproofing, and the night vision, and the PoE, and nobody will call you a dumbass for buying the "wRoNg tYpE oF mIcRoSdcArD"
- poulpy123 3y agoOnly very rich people can say the price point doesn't matter for them. For normal people, buying something is always a matter of balancing alternatives, not even talking about poor people for which it is even more dire
- pulse7 3y agoIf the community is part of the price you pay, then yes...
- ajsnigrutin 3y agoSadly, yes. You can buy whatever else you want, even cheaper and better today, and after three years, getting a modern supported OS will be a total pain, due to binary blobs, custom drivers, custom "design solutions" etc. RaspberryPi is currently the only SBC where you can take any revision of it and still get fully working(! yes, even wifi, bluetooth, etc.) software for it, even if it's not the newest and the greatest model.
- _cenw 3y agox86 based SBCs being the notable exception, since you're very likely going to get an Intel CPU that's in the lineage to Atom (and now E-Cores)
- MrBuddyCasino 3y agoThe first gen Pi Zero W isn't really supported anymore due to the outdated ISA. But other than that, you're right.
- yjftsjthsd-h 3y agoIt's my understanding that https://www.armbian.com/ https://www.armbian.com/ has quite broad hardware support, and there are boards from Orange Pi and Pine64 that boast actual mainline kernel support, so this is more a case of a fragmented ecosystem than there being zero competitors that can meet or exceed pis.
- megous 3y agoThis is just nonsense. There are plenty of old (6-7 year old boards) very well supported in Linux. I've been using several such boards for that long. If anything, support gets better with time, usually.
- LeafItAlone 3y agoWhich SBCs are you referring to?
- megous 3y ago
- dtx1 3y agoYou have 3 choices: 1. Raspberry Pi 2. X86 System 3. Barely functioning SOCs with no mainline support and major software issues until eternity.
- imtringued 3y agoYeah. Just go with x86. If you like adventures go with the Raspberry Pi. If all you need is the cheapest CPU, then enjoy messing around with obsolete kernels I guess.
- dividedbyzero 3y agoI believe the Pi is also pretty much the only sensible choice for GPIO support on Linux.
- dividedbyzero 3y agoThere are so many subtly different smallish x86 systems though that finding one that's cheap, power-efficient, fast, extensible, reasonably quiet and well supported on Linux is pretty difficult. At least to me.
- dboreham 3y agoI have a bunch of these systems from the past few years related to my work building self-hosted decentralized systems. Most recent is this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BVLS7ZHP https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BVLS7ZHP and so far it's working well. I'm running Ubuntu 22 and I have the stock internal SSD plus an externally attached 2T M.2 NVMe drive (via USB3.2 and this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08RVC6F9Y https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08RVC6F9Y).
- glimshe 3y agox86 has the best cost/benefit nowadays, especially for server/desktop applications. Just a random example from Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/KAMRUI-Computer-Computers-Business-Recreation/dp/B0C6CYZL4J https://www.amazon.com/KAMRUI-Computer-Computers-Business-Re...
- 3y ago
- mschuster91 3y agoYes, I'd say that - RPi is, through its moat, the only player in town where you as an user (hobbyist, corporate, ODM) can be assured that there's reasonable build quality, availability of parts, and especially the tooling around it.
- bhouston 3y agoOrange PI 5 Plus is faster (10% faster single threaded, 200% faster multicore per Geekbench) and also supports up to 32GB of memory. It has decent support, but not anything like the Raspberry Pi ecosystem. So if you want a SBC that is fast for special well defined projects, go with Orange PI 5 Plus, but if you want one for arbitrary hobby projects with tons of support everywhere, go with the Raspberry Pi series.
- Havoc 3y agoI’ve never seen a 32gb for sale?
- bhouston 3y agoThey are available for pre-order via the official Orange Pi store on AliExpress right now, slated to ship in November. I know since I was about to pull the trigger on this one: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005006119813607.html https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005006119813607.html
- eropple 3y agoI have both two OPi5's and an OPi5 Plus, and honestly? It's not a problem. Armbian support's there and is emphatically Good Enough for the 90%+ case. They're excellent boards. If you want to talk about bad support, let's talk about something like the NanoPi R5 series. Oof.
- rjsw 3y agoWhat is wrong with NanoPi? I was thinking of getting an R6C to use for RK3588 development.
- eropple 3y agoThe vendor OS is clunky and weird, Armbian doesn't have support (for the R5C at least), it doesn't have NVMe support (only a wireless m.2), flashing the eMMC is really weird...I wouldn't buy another NanoPi. I quite like the Orange Pi 5's for RK3588 boards though.
- contrarian1234 3y agoLibreComputer boards are some of the best supported ones that just run standards Debian/Ubuntu ARM builds
- esskay 3y agoTechnically yes but in most cases you dont need an sbc. An old Lenovo Thinkcentre or Dell OptiPlex Micro can end up being cheaper by the time you add all the additional expenses onto the pi (storage, power, case, etc). The micropc's are also infinately better performing and are upgradable.
- DrammBA 3y agoWhat about energy usage for the next few years?
- doubled112 3y agoHow much does a Raspberry Pi 4/5 use with some sort of external storage running? How much does one cost once you factor in a case, cooling, storage, and a power supply? I paid $195 NEW for a Beelink S12 Mini with 16GB RAM, 500GB NVMe, and an Intel N95 CPU I believe it is said to idle at about 8W. It's a powerful enough machine you could run a bunch of small VMs on it, assuming your workload didn't involve GPIO or other hardware things. I rolled a handful of RPis into VMs on one Orange Pi 5 because it has memory to do so and I wasn't using anything Pi specific.
- poulpy123 3y agoon their website the cheapest lenovo is 500€ and the cheapest dell is 600€ while a kit R5 is 150€, not at all the same price
- esskay 3y agoYeah I'm not referring to new ones. Ebay. Dirt cheap and even the ones several generations old are very power efficient and vastly outperform the pi on both performance and cost.
- mschild 3y agoIf you're looking for one to buy, or any other version for that matter, rpilocator is pretty good. https://rpilocator.com/ https://rpilocator.com/
- moffkalast 3y agoI doubt there will be any listed on that for months, the first two preorder batches from the day it was announced are scheduled to deliver November to January. I would imagine that since then there have probably been enough preorders to fill their production quota until 2025.
- peppercat10 3y agoI wonder if the RPi5 is finally enough for browsing the web and watching media without hiccups. My experience with RPi4 was too sluggish.
- amelius 3y agoWhich is kind of silly because a cheap chinese phone of $100 can play media without problems, and it includes a screen.
- esskay 3y agoThe Pi's a bit limited due to its pretty terrible I/O performance, finicky power system and the insistance on sticking with old broadcom chips. The broadcom thing made sense to begin with, they got a great deal on the pricing. But with the likes of the Rock Pro being pretty much on a price parallel now (and higher performing) it no longer makes sense.
- guappa 3y agoNo cpu is ever enough for modern web.
- sgt 3y agoThis is true, or was true until Apple released the M1 / M2 chips.
- Engineering-MD 3y agoEven then new Reddit makes safari stutter if scroll too long/several tabs
- sgt 3y agoCrazy. I think this is why people stick to the old reddit design. Or use mobile, but is that properly using reddit?
- 3y ago
- joshstrange 3y agoAnd they are promptly out of stock, I assume. I've owned every Raspberry Pi since the first one but I think the 4 was my last one. They are fun to tinker with with but not great for long-term use in my experience. I felt like I had to babysit it way too often, it absolutely wasn't a "setup an forgot" device, again in my experience. It'd be rock solid for 2-3 months then randomly stop working, rinse and repeat. A little bit back I bought a cheap (~$250) mini pc to run Home Assistant on and I haven't looked back. The Raspberry Pi 4 did decent at that job but was a little flakey for my liking and I even had a special case with an m.2 adapter so I didn't have to use the SD card. And before "$XX < $200" (whatever these are going for now), I spent over $100 for my RPi 4 (top ram, I think 4? or was it 8?) especially since you need a case, power supply, etc. Also I had to buy a m.2 ssd and that special adapter. EDIT: I don't doubt that some of you don't have stability issues and/or have a Raspberry 1 that's been running since release without issue. That just wasn't my experience. Maybe that's my fault, I don't know. I know that I bought "raw" boards, kits from multiple suppliers, and expensive cases that came with approved power supplies but without fail in a couple months it wouldn't be pingable/ssh-able and I'd have to power cycle it and sometimes the software on it would just lock up (same software wouldn't have issue on my home server). In the end maybe I'm an idiot or not smart enough to manage a RPi but especially after the stock issues not too long ago and who the RPi Foundation prioritized, coupled with my experience of the hardware, I'm not really interested in the platform.
- CyberDildonics 3y agoI've had a pi 4 running pi hole untouched for multiple years.
- eropple 3y agoMine runs the Unifi controller and PiHole on a Pi 3 and it has survived, untouched, across four separate moves. Helps to properly tune logging to not over-wear the SD card. My three Orange Pi 5's are in my home k8s cluster (mostly as local GitHub Actions arm64 builders, but also have m.2 storage for Longhorn and run the occasional one-off) will probably tick along without being looked at again for years.
- 3y ago
- BaculumMeumEst 3y agothey still use sd cards? jesus christ.
- steve_adams_86 3y agoWhat would you prefer?
- BaculumMeumEst 3y agoliterally anything that does not bring the entire system, which is comprised of hardware that would be otherwise very fast, to a grinding halt, on so many common operations. why not just solder on some damn flash memory and make that the default? why force everyone to buy an SD card for every single device and deal with ungodly slow IO?
- VikingCoder 3y agoCan I please have a Raspberry Pi 500? I like the idea of the Pi 400 - a computer inside a keyboard. And I'm looking forward to having a Pi 5 inside one. Anyone know when I can buy one of these for my daughter?
- MisterTea 3y agoIf a Pi 500 were to be made it should be a carrier case for the Pi5 compute module. The Pi as a keyboard form factor is too limiting.
- HankB99 3y agoAgreed, mostly because I'm looking forward to the CM5. But I do have a Pi 5 on pre-ordered along with the official wall wort and the active cooler. I skipped the case because I'm thinking about a Flirc and wondering if Coolermaster will bring out a Pi 5 version of their 4B case.
- HankB99 3y agoFor weeks Microcenter (in the US) listed them as available 23 October. When I checked yesterday I see "Available on Nov 03,2023".[0] I wonder why that is. [0] The test on the page looks like "AVAILABLE" and copies as " Available on Nov 03,2023 "
- benterix 3y agoI'm sorry but it got too expensive and hence lost its main advantage. These days I use second-hand desktop mini-pcs that cost minimally more than the full Rpi set (charger, CD card, case, SBC) but are much more powerful. For anything involving WiFi/IoT, I use ESP32 - far less expensive and very easy to use. And for cases where WiFi is not needed, we have tons of interesting solutions and few reasons to use the Pi.
- zamadatix 3y agoThese are the two high RAM models but I expect the low RAM model to retain the same $35 price. That's no microntroller cost but if you can get away with such they also have the Pico these days which is $4.
- dragontamer 3y agoPico has its own problems: 1. VQFN package is a pain to deal with. You can't use a soldering iron, so its reflow-only and therefore requires hotplate + reflow hot air to deal with. Due to the difficulty of rework, you likely can't use the soldering iron+solder wick technique to fix solder bridges, for example... and therefore also require a soldering stencil to work with (gotta deposit the correct amount of solder-paste and hope everything works out good). Inspection requires X-Rays as well because everything is "under" the package, so you can't even visually inspect your joints. I definitely prefer TQFP (seems to be the package with the biggest inventory in practice), and enjoy even the larger SSOP or even SOIC packages available from some competitors. All competitors offer VQFN as an option as well, in case you are truly size-constrained. But in my experience, a 9mmx9mm TQFP-32 is perfectly fine (7x7mm raw, but the leads take up another 1mm for total of 2mm added on the two sides). Your 32-traces are going to take up like half an inch of routing space anyway, so its not like the 5mmx5mm VQFN saves much space in practice IMO (IE: You'll need 6-layers or something... and/or to cut out lines to really take advantage of the space-savings from a VQFN) Note: Hobbyists _should_ be using hotplates to do the bulk of their surface-mount soldering jobs. But accessibility to soldering iron for rework / touching up problems is a huge advantage to TQFP. 2. 0kB of on-board flash. RP2040 requires external components to boot, complicating the flashing / loading / bootup process. 3. Poor sleep specs, for a microcontroller. Your typical AVR DD (modern ATMega), or STM32G0, or Ti MSP430 / MSPM0 are all in the dozens or low-hundreds of microamps sleep (with some competitors in the ~hundreds of nanoamps for deepest sleep states). RP2040 sleeps at ~0.5mA to 1mA, an order of magnitude more power. 4. Poor power specs, for a microcontroller. Your typical AVR DD, SAMD, STM32G0, Ti MSP430 / MSPM0 are maybe single-digit mA (under 10mA across the board). RP2040 is like 20mA. I kid you not: an 8-bitter like AVR DD can be going full-tilt at like 4MHz or 8MHz and still have less power-usage than RP2040 *at idle*. 5. Lack of peripherals. RP2040 has PIO and SRAM as superpowers... but its got fewer timers, ADCs, DACs, OpAmps, Comparators, than all of its competitors. --------------- RP2040's main superpower is its 264kB of SRAM. If you need gobs and gobs of SRAM, RP2040 is probably the right choice. All other situations? I'm pretty sure you'd prefer a 12-bit differential ADC with 16x gain (ex: AVR64EA48), or 12-bit differential ADC (no PGA) + 3x OpAmps (ex: AVR128DB64) and multiple comparators and 4x onboard Vref, or 2x Zero-drift OpAmps + 1x general-purpose OpAmp (ex: TI's MSPM0 line). Honestly, I'm not impressed by the Pico for general purpose use. The Pico works as a specialized compute-device (high SRAM, high MHz and dual-core), but this is simply impractical for many applications. You'd really rather have ADCs or Comparators in more typical electrical designs. Combo'd with the high-power usage (probably from all that redundant RAM the RP2040 has), and its difficult to recommend. -------- Going in the other way: Cortex-M4F cores with a floating-point unit, even at 64MHz, will be much-much-much faster than a 200MHz RP2040. Why? Because hardware float32 matter. Why do you have 264kB of SRAM when you don't even have a floating-point unit? The RP2040 can't even be a good DSP-like system with all that compute power because you gotta software-emulate floats. So if you _actually_ need compute power, you'd probably should be picking an STM32F4 (aka: Cortex-M4F) processor instead. RP2040 sits in this awkward zone where its got gobs of SRAM + MHz but is stuck on Cortex-M0+ (lacking floats, and other key instructions), so it doesn't actually have very fast compute in a very common case that matters... So yeah, RP2040 works if you're willing to rewrite to integer-fixed point... if you don't need peripherals like ADCs or ACs, if you're willing to spend more power and complexity (due to the lack of on-board Flash), and are willing to use leadless VQFN packages. Its... quite a niche IMO.
- squarefoot 3y agoToo little, too late, too expensive. With the RP2040 they showed the world that they can still make very interesting products that fill the low footprint and low cost niche, but the battle for cheap and powerful Linux boards in my opinion is lost; the competition already won in that field and today is years ahead.
- galangalalgol 3y agoMosern microcontrollers are extremely capable, I agree. But they aren't running a recognizable OS yet. It seems like the only thing holding them back is the ram size generally. The processors on these things obliterate my first linux machine. Is there a reason we have the offerings we do? A kiosk could absolutely be run on a rp2040 if it had more memory.
- ianburrell 3y agoThe RP2040 doesn't have an MMU so it can't run full OS. The RP2040 is also really slow, 133MHz. The RP2040 doesn't have a display connector. If you want to run kiosk, Pi Zero is a much better choice. It already has all that stuff. It is $10 vs $4. It runs normal OS.
- idkyall 3y agoProbably from the RPI perspective it's just due to product segmentation. The Pi Zero 2 W is ~$15, has 512mb ram, and runs full linux with wireless compatibility, video output, etc. Easier to up-sell you on that rather than try to bridge the gap with a $10 product between the two. I think the Pico/RP2040 works great for most basic electronics projects, and honestly you can get surprisingly far with its processor, up to even basic 3d graphics.[1] [1] https://sites.google.com/site/tedrossin/home/electronics/raspberry-pi-pico https://sites.google.com/site/tedrossin/home/electronics/ras...
- alex_john_m 3y agoI checked all Eastern Europe retailers on their website and none of them seem to be having the board in stock. All of them are either taking preorders or say they will start deliveries in late december or early january. The only retailers that seem to have any stock at all are in the UK and buying from there is a nightmare due to brexit (assuming the boards ever arrive at all - they have a nasty habbit of taking people's money but never deliver).
- fanf2 3y agoI guess the delays are due to regulatory paperwork, as the blog post suggested.
- devwastaken 3y agoReminder that rpi refuses to specially sell to educators, the supposed target and whole purpose of their mission. Those that need them can't get it because the purchasing processes in orgs means they're out of stock before it can be bought.
- random_dork1 3y agoThat is weird! Can you share a source?
- worldofmatthew 3y agoTomorrow I will collect my Raspberry Pi 5 :) (From the official Raspberry pi store)
- synergy20 3y agoAt this price and power consumption, considering the extra cost of a solid housing etc, those small factor x86 boxes make more sense to me, I have no plan to acquire a RPi5 for now.
- unethical_ban 3y agoI had to buy a case fan to set atop my Intel 4port mini PC, otherwise it would hard lock due to heat. Now, I needed it for the network ports, but there are tradeoffs.
- musha68k 3y agoCan anyone recommend a forward looking “JBOD case” holding the rpi5 that maybe has room for ample cooling for 24/7 usage? Basically for something like a “DIY Asustor” ++ build? Any 2c much appreciated.
- magixx 3y agoIt's unfortunate but unless you're willing to spend quite a bit of money (or are willing to forgo compactness) these are hard to find especially for 3.5" drives. Radxa did have the Taco and Mediasonic does make compact 4/8 bay JBODs bur these are USB only. There are also various NVME to SATA/SAS adapters but these mostly make use of port multipliers and speed won't be amazing. You'll probably also want some SATA backplanes to make wiring less nightmarish but these are annoying to source at a reasonable price. My latest idea I had for something semi compact and performant was to try and use a USB4 SSD enclosure with adapters to connect a full size PCIE card. You'd then get a Thunderbolt DAS theoretically.
- theyinwhy 3y agoBe aware that TB 3/4 is only PCIe3, 4 lanes (each 8Gbit) = 32 gbit
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- mastax 3y agoThey've been releasing videos which talk about various aspects of the Pi 5 design in some detail, and I've found them really interesting: https://www.youtube.com/@raspberrypi/videos https://www.youtube.com/@raspberrypi/videos I was surprised by just how much of the hardware and software of the Pi 5 was custom designed by (or for) the Raspberry Pi org. Custom MIPI implementation, custom IO chip, custom image signal processor, custom camera drivers (w/libcamera), custom video drivers (w/Mesa+DRM). They were able to cut out pretty much all of the Broadcom firmware and the VideoCore is no longer handling the bootup process.
- my123 3y ago> the VideoCore is no longer handling the bootup process. Nope that part remains. The VideoCore VPU does almost nothing other than that and power management on the RPi5 though
- cmrdporcupine 3y agoRK3588 looks like a far more interesting SoC & product to me now.
- walterbell 3y agoHave you seen a RK3588 SBC that supports OP-TEE, i.e. allows the owner to run custom TrustZone code?
- cmrdporcupine 3y agoNot something I have looked into. I've had my eye on https://turingpi.com/product/turing-rk1/ https://turingpi.com/product/turing-rk1/
- yding 3y agoI’m going to be a contrarian and say that I really appreciate that they went for a high performing/more expensive SoC this time. When I had to buy a SBC last time I couldn’t bring myself to get the Pi 4 because it was missing core features (4K HDR decode) vs the alternatives. But I love the community around Raspberry Pi and it’ll definitely increase my options with this SBC.
- rldjbpin 3y agois it though? checked all official resellers for two countries and the model is not readily available anywhere. i figured that after a decade of selling millions of Pis, they could establish direct sales channels by now. but instead we are still stuck with re-resellers who charge a hefty markup on marketplaces people outside of electronics would ever visit. this is like the major critcism that remains for me with their original mission. the price might have started being accessible, but to buy one has almost never been so.