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Intel Launches Intel Core 14th Gen Desktop Processors for Enthusiasts
- spandextwins 3y agoApparently only Apple can get ecores working.
- rsynnott 3y agoApple had the advantage that heterogenous core setups coincided with a major architecture change, so third parties more or less had to change stuff _anyway_. Also arguably a different culture; your average Windows developer is accustomed to a status quo where you don't really _have_ to change anything; things will basically keep more or less working. Whereas Apple will quite happily break third party apps which don't keep up to date. You see something similar with HiDPI; within a year or two after Apple introducing HiDPI, it was rare to see third party problems with it, but most third party software never really worked with Microsoft's original attempt, and even their more Apple-like modern one is still quite poorly supported. (Interestingly, MacOS long had a hidden "smart" form of HiDPI quite similar to the old Windows one; used to show up in John Siracusa's MacOS reviews from long before the first HiDPI Macs. They presumably decided third party developers would struggle with it, and bypassed it for the fairly dumb pixel-doubling thing they use today, though).
- jshier 3y agoApple also has the advantage of reusing their ecores for other things, like the watch and HomePod mini. Does Intel reuse theirs for anything?
- nicolaslem 3y agoI am pretty sure it's the other way around, Intel reused their existing cores found in Atom CPUs and put them in their desktop lineup as e-cores.
- rsynnott 3y agoYeah, at time of introduction, Intel would have had a lot more experience of their e-cores than Apple. The e-cores in the M1 were, I believe, net-new and reused later (old Apple Watches just had process-shrunk former phone cores, I think).
- phant0mas 3y agoIt seems it's either exactly the same or barely an improvement from the 13th series https://youtu.be/2MvvCr-thM8?si=V8bOAF0RrajkXuth https://youtu.be/2MvvCr-thM8?si=V8bOAF0RrajkXuth
- Aardwolf 3y agoTargeted at enthusiasts... But enthusiasts are those who will know
- placatedmayhem 3y agoIt feels like the "for enthusiasts" branding is really just marketing for those less in the know who want to get something because it's targeted at experts. Somewhat similar to the now-prolific superficial "pro" branding on spec-bump higher tiers of the same "non-pro" products.
- reactordev 3y ago"For Enthusiasts" is a calling beacon for those not in the know. "I want to have the best of the best, but don't know what that is" are then duped into buying the latest sales gimmick. Anytime someone says "who" they are targeting, it's not their target audience. They are targeting folks who want to be "who" they are targeting.
- kuschku 3y agoThey're called 14900, 14700, etc. But truly, they're just 13th Gen processors with slightly different names. The 14700 actually got some new E cores, which actually makes a difference (12 vs the old 8, making a total of 28 instead of 24 cores). But the 14600 and 14900 are exactly identical to their predecessors, at a higher price. The only major difference so far is that these chips by default don't have the typical power limit set, so they can actually achieve about +2-3% more performance in gaming at +100% more power draw. GN famously called the 11700K a "waste of perfectly fine sand", but that description fits the 14600 and 14900 even better.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- jchw 3y agoTo be fair, the 11xxx series was pretty brazen. If I remember correctly, they literally regressed in many benchmarks. At least this is just functionally identical. Clearly, the correct move is to buy 13th gen parts at their current street prices; or maybe Ryzen depending on what your priorities are. The only good news is that it's hard to go too wrong in this era; I've had great success with CPU upgrades and new boxen in the past few years on both sides of the aisle.
- happycube 3y agoAt least the 11th gen was a different core instead of the Nth skylake rehash, and the only consumer line to have AVX-512.
- segfaultbuserr 3y agoThey're merely rebranded Intel Core 13th Gen chips, with a performance difference around 1% at the same clock frequency. Reviewers found their CPUIDs report the same model and even stepping. Some rumors previously claimed possible minor improvements to the on-die memory controller or voltage regulation, but both turned out to be false. The only differences are slightly increased clock frequencies, and also slightly increased L2 and L3 cache sizes in some lower-end SKUs (that were already physically present on the silicon but previously fused off in cheaper models). Thus, think of them as some new SKUs in the 13th Gen product line with slightly higher specs at the same MSRP (but may or may not be cheaper at retail prices). Apparently the reason is that Intel was experiencing production difficulties on Meteor Lake, so this new generation is skipped for desktops in favor of an exclusive launch for mobile (and HTPC desktops) platforms. Wait until December 14th, 2023 for the real new CPUs.
- baal80spam 3y agoThis is correct. Here's a nice and comprehensive rundown https://www.techspot.com/review/2749-intel-core-14th-gen-cpus/ https://www.techspot.com/review/2749-intel-core-14th-gen-cpu... The power consumption seems really high.
- type0 3y agoHey be positive, if your place is cold during the winter months it could double as a heating element.
- anticensor 3y agoI would have never thought I would have to keep separate summer and winter tunings for my CPU and memory.
- xctr94 3y agoWait for Intel Lake Michigan, which freezes in winter and stays relatively cool in summer. I jest, but I don’t understand how they’re getting power regulation so hit-and-miss.
- Jeff_Brown 3y agoI always wonder how advances at the frontier affect prices for unenthusiastic people like me who buy middling systems. (This year for the first time OLED laptops seem cheap to me. Apparently that was invented in 1987.)
- AmVess 3y agoThey are cheap. I bought an Asus Zenbook 14 OLED for $699. It has 14 inch 120 Hz OLED screen, 16 thread Intel i7. Solid build quality throughout. Metal exterior, very good keyboard and trackpad. It doesn't have a discrete GPU, but I don't game on it, so it is not needed.
- suprjami 3y agoYou can play games on Intel HD graphics. Even my 8th gen NUC does Vulkan and runs plenty of games just fine. At least the crap old games and emulators I want to play.
- happycube 3y agoDepends on the competition - intel was serving up dual-core so-called i5's and i7's on mobile until AMD looked to finally bring something competitive.
- jeffbee 3y agoThe most recent of those were 5W TDP "Amber Lake" CPUs from 5 years ago. To my recollection, AMD had nothing to offer in that space at that time, and as far as I can find AMD has not ever shipped a 5W mobile SoC with any number of cores (Geode notwithstanding).
- rsaxvc 3y agoAnd it took about ten years to go from one OLED to a small embedded display in a stereo.
- wmf 3y agoFor example, a quad-core CPU has dropped from ~$330 to ~$100 and it's ~40% faster.
- s3p 3y agoThey don't mention the process node they're manufacturing this on, but I would assume it's intel 4. Sapphire rapids was the old priority at Intel and that was always run on Intel 4 nodes, so I assume it will be the same here. Hoping intel can get down to their 20A and 18A nodes as fast as possible to finally be competitive with ARM competitors on a performance per watt basis.
- icegreentea2 3y agoNo, it's Intel 7 (same as 12th and 13th gen). Meteor Lake (the mobile 14XXX chips...) will be on Intel 4.
- type0 3y agoWhich of these CPUs support ECC memory with approriate motherboard?
- orthoxerox 3y agoCPUs, like smartphones, don't really need an upgrade every year, but the manufacturers feel the need to come up with a new lineup each year, even when the changes are minimal at best and cosmetic at worst. Most desktop CPUs are already very good enough at their job and don't need an upgrade. There are exceptional workloads where CPU speed is a bottleneck, but I think we have run out of easy ways to improve it. I upgraded from Intel 3570K (a 2012 CPU!) to AMD 5600X two years ago simply because the old motherboard had no M.2 slots and honestly didn't feel any difference in CPU speed.
- KptMarchewa 3y agoGPU manufacturers at least got out of that mentality.
- HPsquared 3y agoThe nice thing with GPUs is that the performance actually scales quite linearly with price.
- ericpauley 3y agoLove the 3570K. I recently added an M2 SSD to a machine using a PCIe adapter. The board even supported booting from it after an update. Thanks ASRock!
- serf 3y agomost CPU upgrades in my household now only occur either due to 1) missing chipset features that newer games/media want to use, or 2) patches to fix security holes have slowed the thing to a crawl. On a disconnected PC without specific CPU feature requirements i'd keep the things forever, it hasn't been a 'speed' or 'cores' thing for quite some time it feels.
- kubik369 3y agoJust as a heads up, you could have used a PCIe m.2 riser if you had the empty slots for it. You might not be able to directly boot from it with an older BIOS/UEFI, but that is easily workaroundable.
- sidkshatriya 3y agohttps://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/sku/236773/intel-core-i9-processor-14900k-36m-cache-up-to-6-00-ghz/specifications.html https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/sku/236773/... > Lithography: Intel 7 Very disappointing that we're still on Intel 7. I was hoping for Intel 4 at the very least.
- astrodust 3y agoThey'll stumble through Intel 6 and later Intel 5.5 for a couple of years before hitting that mark at the rate things are going.
- BearOso 3y agoAt this rate, SMIC with its ex-TSMC employees and stolen IP is going to surpass them pretty quickly. That's unfortunate, as we could really use a leading-edge fab that is separate from the volatile political relations in East Asia.
- astrodust 3y agoBoth Intel and TSMC are committed to building fabs, though they are building in Arizona, a state not exactly known for its abundance of fresh water. You'd think West Virginia would pull out all the stops to make something like this happen. They have the space, the water...
- paulmd 3y agopower quality is a factor counting against snowier regions. like there was an intel plant manager on here at one point who commented that they regularly traced individual spikes/surges to specific trees taking grid zones down etc. e: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28683036 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28683036 Columbus is an interesting choice for intel given that it does experience some winter. Personally I'd say something like WV does seem like a pretty good choice especially if you could get hydro power, it's very very stable especially if you could get a dedicated circuit to the dam with a dedicated turbine or two following your power needs. Age-old tradition for large projects, hydro is a very controllable stable bulk power source. On the downside, big winter snowstorms/etc, mountain weather is intense etc and tbh any blasting might be problematic at these scales. geological stability is already a concern for fab quality, actual mining ops in the area might be problematic. (I wonder if fracking in some areas would be problematic as well. this could easily be a "bolted into bedrock" type thing. well, bedrock may have some thumping in the midwest too.) They really optimize for total disaster rate overall, modulo tax breaks and operating costs etc. Winter is a big downside, arizona doesn't have weather other than "hot" afaik. water can be "solved". just take it from farmers.
- minimaul 3y agoThe power draw on these compared to AMD feels absolutely bizarre - in an age where we're supposed to be trying to conserve resources, it feels ridiculously wasteful to burst up to 430W [1] for minor gains. That's over 200W more than the approximately equivalent AMD chip (the 7950X), for practically no performance over it. 1. https://www.anandtech.com/show/21084/intel-core-i9-14900k-core-i7-14700k-and-core-i5-14600k-review-raptor-lake-refreshed/6 https://www.anandtech.com/show/21084/intel-core-i9-14900k-co...
- brucethemoose2 3y agoAnd the 7950X is still very turbo happy for minimal gains. The 7800X3D is a good example of what it would be like capped to "just" 5GHz and a lower all-core TDP.
- Mistletoe 3y agohttps://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/environment/sustainability.html https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/environment/sustaina... Don’t worry, they are committed to sustainability.
- xctr94 3y agoThe picture on that link clearly shows how you can heat up greenhouses by running 14th gen. CPUs at modest speeds. On a more serious note, kudos to them if these numbers are true. That’s a decent amount of renewables and waste reduction at such an industrial scale.
- AshamedCaptain 3y agoOn the other hand, I believe idle power usage is generally lower on Intel parts than on AMD parts, which is usually something that is less methodically reviewed and generally far more important than this peak power shenanigans.
- minimaul 3y agoYou're right, this is much harder to find reputable numbers for :/ https://www.guru3d.com/review/intel-core-i7-13700k-review/page-6/ https://www.guru3d.com/review/intel-core-i7-13700k-review/pa... is the closest I can find, and it's whole PC power draw - and it has them all fairly even. I suspect it's dominated by other components like GPU, though?
- AdamN 3y ago[OT] What's the future of x86? Seems like ARM for servers has taken over in so many places and continues to grow at the expense of x86
- dboreham 3y agoNot really. ARM servers are quite hard to find (e.g. none at Digitalocean), and ARM builds of common software projects are often missing. The server world overwhelmingly still runs on X86.
- johnklos 3y agoFor some of us, compiling from source is the ONLY way to do things. If there's a zero day, I'm not going to sit around waiting for someone else to make a binary. Likewise, simply as a matter of principle, I won't run software that won't seamlessly compile on non-x86 architectures. It's much better that way in the long run. I run ARM, and I have yet to find anything that won't compile on it, unlike, say, UltraSPARC, PowerPC or Alpha, for which edge cases aren't exceptionally rare.
- tester756 3y ago>For some of us, compiling from source is the ONLY way to do things. If there's a zero day, I'm not going to sit around waiting for someone else to make a binary. Usually binaries are available at the very similar moment the fix is published
- johnklos 3y agoSure, but sometimes they're not. Those sometimes can be very, very critical. Think of the Red Hat (and others) local privilege escalation, for example: Red Hat released a CVE with vague language and with no clear steps to take. If you ran a server that had lots of users, some of whom might be mischievous, you'd be pissed, because you'd be wondering what the heck to do before one of your mischievous users did something.
- 3y ago
- dboreham 3y ago"This one goes to 14"
- amelius 3y ago"For enthusiasts", as opposed to "for the risk-averse"?
- jupp0r 3y agoThe whole announcement doesn't even mention caches once, when that's one of the defining drivers of performance in games and elsewhere, much more so than turbo boost clock rates, which can't be thermally sustained in games anyway mostly.
- Am4TIfIsER0ppos 3y ago> desktop processors > for enthusiasts > has efficiency cores nice joke I must say
- a_vanderbilt 3y agoGiven that these processors are intended for enthusiasts (who presumably want maximum performance), why are they including efficiency cores? Would it not be more beneficial to include a lower amount of higher performing cores?
- faeriechangling 3y agoThey provide more multi-threaded performance given the same amount of silicon used.
- a_vanderbilt 3y agoThank you for your answer. Presumably due to the lack of context switching and dedicating the entirety of core time to process that isn't high priority?
- mmaniac 3y ago[dead]
- andy_ppp 3y agoWill Intel get working 3nm (TSMC marketing equivalent)? Have they purchased the ASML High NA machines in similar quantities to TSMC for example?
- varispeed 3y agoIntel is back to their tricks by reselling the same old CPUs as new. Not sure why would "enthusiast" want any "efficient" cores? For low latency and real time workloads your system is as fast as your slowest core. Unless you can turn them off? Then why pollute the die with these? They have lost the plot.
- Havoc 3y ago>Unless you can turn them off? Then the background tasks need to run on the performance cores slowing down your main workload. > Then why pollute the die with these? That's partially the point - they're much much smaller than P cores physically. So if you can move some non-critical stuff off the P cores at a very low die space cost then that's a win. ...all of which assumes correct & intelligent scheduling which I gather isn't always the case
- varispeed 3y agoWhat you saying makes sense, but I am thinking that this may be false economy. It of course depends on the nature of background tasks, but likely they would have a chance to finish quicker on a performance core than on efficiency core and if main workload depends on those e.g. something generating an event, you still are probably going to get a performance penalty greater than if everything was running on P cores or if main task needs I/O and slow background process is blocking it for longer.
- wmf 3y agoThere's a lot of discussion of the details in this thread but I don't want people to miss the big picture: No one should buy Intel processors under any circumstances. All Intel processors suck now. Maybe that will change in the future, but if you're buying anything today, buy AMD.
- Scarbutt 3y agoWhat AMD CPU beats an i3-13100 in price/performance?
- wmf 3y agoOK, you got me there. The 13100 is actually a great value.
- suprjami 3y agoWhat person buying an i3 cares about performance?
- Scarbutt 3y agoNo one should buy Intel processors under any circumstances.
- suprjami 3y agoAMD have their problems too. Nobody likes to talk about the insane NPS configuration or the models where some cores have good L3 cache and some don't. These cause real problems which are very difficult to diagnose. I know this because I'm the one solving them for customers. Good luck if you're running a workload affected by the CVE solved in the latest Zen 3/4 microcode update, goodbye HPC cluster investment.
- tibbydudeza 3y agoI got a 13900 recently - upgraded from an old i7-6700 system. What a difference when running a Jetbrains IDE :) For me Intel was the best bang for the bucks - AM5 and DDR5 is so expensive where I live.