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MyPowerbank hacks Santander bikes so London's homeless can charge their phones
- netsharc 3y agoMan, when I saw "hack" I thought the Santander bikes are e-bikes, and the hack would be a device that leeches power off their batteries...
- op00to 3y agoSame! Like, the bikes are charging via some inductive method, and the battery sucks off that. That’d be cool as hell!
- doublesocket 3y agoThey have some sort of battery that powers the lights. I wonder if the dock also charges those?
- chedabob 3y agoThey're powered by a dynamo, so probably only have the tiniest of batteries or capacitors necessary to keep the low-power lights on when not moving.
- kioleanu 3y agoNope just a fancier dynamo
- Geraldine30 3y ago[dead]
- EdSchouten 3y agoWhat’s the advantage of using those bicycles, as opposed to just having a crank on it? Pedaling a bicycle backwards isn’t really ergonomic.
- helpfulContrib 3y agoBicycles are among the most efficient energy conversion systems human-kind has ever invented .. the difference between a single lever (which, after all, is still an option with the existing design) and a bicycle lever/gear system, means all the difference in the world when the calories are, already, a regular daily concern for the target user. Plus, it gives the bikes utility when they're not being rented, since the rental bays often take up space in areas accessible to the homeless, its also quite convenient for the target users.
- extraduder_ire 3y agoThis doesn't use the gear system though. (aside from the large front sprocket driving the smaller one on the device) I'm quite surprised it can be built for £3, unless the battery is incredibly small.
- helpfulContrib 3y agoI believe there is also a social element to this, as it is rather an unfortunately overlooked detail that bike-rental bays are often installed by businesses throughout metropolitan regions as a means of discouraging the homeless, who cannot afford to use these devices, which storage after all consumes public space .. giving the homeless a way to extract value from things is, in my opinion, an admirably placed bit of design altruism, and I, for one, hope to see many more examples of this kind of thinking. I have often wondered what sort of conversion it would take to use an AK47 and a box of ammo to drill a well/pump water, instead of suppress human beings.. transformative technology is highly interesting, don't you agree? >I'm quite surprised it can be built for £3, unless the battery is incredibly small. Herein lies the rub - can the homeless build these things for £1 a piece, somewhere in London? Because if the answer is more oil-based traffic across the worlds oceans to get these things made, I'm afraid the irony of the builder/user distinction is rather unfortunate...
- SV_BubbleTime 3y agoThat cost would be at a volume no one would ever produce this at.
- serpix 3y agoA wall socket can be found just about anywhere, if you really need power quick there are fast charging powerbanks.
- helpfulContrib 3y agoHomelessness is a serious subject, especially in a city like London. The assumption that the homeless masses all have access to a powerbank, or a wall socket in one of the cities most notorious for class boundaries, is rather coarse.. perhaps you might at least think of it as more of a survival device for those who are using their bicycles to get far, far away from the grid ..
- arp242 3y ago[flagged]
- dmw_ng 3y agoPlenty of locations that used to be BT phone boxes were replaced with pillars featuring WiFi and USB charging. Is this not pretty widespread? This device seems a bit.. daft. Renting a Santander cycle costs 1.65 GBP. Add the high energy food required to supplement your diet after a 30 minute ride and this is looking closer to 3 or 4 quid for a phone charge, and that's before considering where the homeless person is going to securely stow their belongings while cycling. Luggage storage in Victoria is 5 GBP for 3 hours..
- jebarker 3y agoYou don't have to pay to rent the bike. The homeless person attaches the devices and then peddles on it stationary in the dock.
- mytailorisrich 3y agoIt is illegal to use a socket without permission and there aren't that many sockets accessible outdoor.
- tiahura 3y agoShouldn’t the strategy be to disincentivize bums congregating in your neighborhood?
- helpfulContrib 3y agoMaybe the strategy should be more to incentivize people to live more safely and comfortably in nature and less in their boxes of inordinate consumption. Homelessness could become a good thing, if we get our tech right. (Disclaimer: Tree-hugging hippy who believes we should be dropping Kelly Kettles, not bombs..)
- sp332 3y agoAverage rent in London is over $2,000 per month. You don’t have to be a bum to be homeless.
- jebarker 3y agoand median income in London appears to be ~41K GBP, so that rent would be about 80% of the income. No wonder there's lots of homelessness.
- devoutsalsa 3y agoIf you can’t buy boots, you can just buy the laces, so there’s no excuse to avoid pulling yourself up by your bootstraps #sarcasm
- Sakos 3y agoYes, the solution must be to redirect homeless elsewhere so they're no longer your problem, instead of actually helping people.
- circuit10 3y agoThese are people with a life and feelings and needs just as much as you. If you were in a rough situation and needed some help, how would it feel to have people dehumanise you with comments like this as if you’re some sort of pest and just want you to go away somewhere else instead of helping?
- groone 3y agoI think they would rather leave some USB port available than let you wear down their chains
- mytailorisrich 3y agoMore likely that they'll upgrade the bikes to lock the chain/pedals if this becomes a problem.
- uoaei 3y agoConsidering there's negligible tension on the chain when pedalling backwards it's not really going to have much of an effect. And the added gear ("jockey/pulley wheel") is plastic.
- londons_explore 3y agoNice prototype, but it doesn't actually work does it? Turns out that to transfer any significant torque (and therefore energy), you need either a larger gear, or a larger subtended angle, or a higher chain tension - and ideally all three. Since this device has none of those, I can be pretty confident that even after hours of pedalling, you won't have a charged phone. In fact, the video even shows the chain jumping showing that the generator gear isn't turning.
- Groxx 3y agoProbably also can't use magnets that can slide along the axis of power transfer... there's no way this works as designed. I do like the base idea of "why not just use the machines that are already idle everywhere" though.
- ecshafer 3y agoThat seems like par for the course in this day and age. A nice sentiment and idea, but it doesnt actually work. But that doesn’t stop it from going on the cv and a small marketing push about it.
- diydsp 3y agoYour comments about the gear size, etc. are interesting, but I don't see how they're strictly necessary. Can you explain? For example, can't an arbitrarily small gear work as long as the force contributing to the torque is sufficient? And isn't the force a product of the driving force (human leg/crank) and the load on the generator? And we can't see the load on the generator, so there may well be step-up gearing and high-flux motor inside the housing? BTW, I respect your project at https://omattos.com/2022/06/19/gym-power.html https://omattos.com/2022/06/19/gym-power.html I have also worked with human-powered generators (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huYJa2Du57g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huYJa2Du57g) and made a quick feasibility spreadsheet on the MyPowerbank at: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1X39ZgL86tmemdYv0r1JgtGTdIVM-mfuOdOGXDTTsczI/edit?usp=sharing https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1X39ZgL86tmemdYv0r1Jg... From my spreadsheet, this project looks plausible, but please feel free to add comments to it as you see fit. My spreadsheet's calcs indicate an average power of about 25 Watts to reach the 25 minute charging time claim. Note that average humans can easily sustain 100 Watts. I have assumed an iPhone 12 battery as that's the first that came up when I searched: https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=ihpone+battery+capacity https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=ihpone+... As far as the shaking chain, note also that the device base is shaking so we can not directly infer the cog idler pulley-cum-prime-mover is not also moving. In my experience with human-powered generators, the real obstacle was getting people to relax and focus and do nothing for longer than 2 minutes.
- tgsovlerkhgsel 3y agoAre there no libraries or homeless shelters where they could charge either a phone or a power bank? This seems more like an art project than a practical solution.
- afavour 3y agoIt’s definitely more of an attention grab than practical solution. Doesn’t invalidate it though.
- angrygoat 3y agoYes, at least here in Australia there are a lot of libraries, churches and other public places where charging is available. Rather than expecting those without homes to pedal for basic access to services, access to basic infrastructure like charging should be expanded – and dare I say, be bold and actually make housing available to all people.
- tgsovlerkhgsel 3y agoHaving to stay there while charging would still be a hurdle. Do they typically offer e.g. code-locked charging cabinets where you can leave a phone or power bank, or power bank swaps where they would lend (or give) away standardized power banks that could then be exchanged for full ones when empty?
- averageRoyalty 3y agoWhat is the hurdle of staying in a library whilst charging your phone or power bank?
- tgsovlerkhgsel 3y agoIt's incompatible with getting other stuff done, like hiking to the gym for a shower then going to work then going to the food bank. Just because someone is homeless doesn't mean they don't have anything better to do than sit around for hours watching a number go up.
- spaintech 3y agoWhile I applaud the intent to bring the issue of homelessness to the forefront of the media, I feel like this project is more about gaining self attention for the project rather than solving the issue all together. The ~20GBP for the 18650 or 27500 batteries, the probably ~5GBP of the PCB needed, ~15GBP for the chain hardware and magnets, you are looking for a >40GBP to put this together, you can today get a <10GBP USB hand crank, and you don’t have to use the words “hack” and name “Santander” on your blog. I’f there was intent, then a volume buy, with a go-fund-me campaign, you can get them hand cranks for <2GBP in volume, and it would have had a real impact… I hate it when serious matters are used just to draw attention to one self, IMHO.
- tmpX7dMeXU 3y agoComputer people have the biggest case of “everything looks like a nail”.
- dom96 3y agoI don’t see it as self promotion. Also regarding hand cranking: pedalling is almost surely far less strenuous and more efficient
- tomstuart 3y agoIt’s a student project, so the primary intent is to do the work necessary to graduate.
- fullspectrumdev 3y agoIt’s from CSM, a fairly well regarded art college, so you are right on the money. You see a lot of interesting projects like this come from art colleges - technically quite neat, with a “social message” or theme, but usually not going to translate well to the real world. That being said. I could see myself actually using something like this in a pinch.
- watwut 3y agoWhich I think is 100% ok for art or tech school or project. They are not supposed to be experts in social help, sociology or whatever. They kinda lack training for that. The are supposed to show practical skills and come up with an idea of a project that would demonstrate them.
- Waterluvian 3y agoHomeless people are known for having so much free time and energy that an hour of pedalling is a better solution than the two cents of wall power needed to charge things while they sit and correspond with potential employers, deal with paperwork, pay bills, figure out their kid’s school plans, and working out how to keep their healthcare without a full address. I dunno… this “idea” feels so ignorant that it’s basically offensive.
- gnsdrths 3y agoI'm American so as ignorant as I'm sure this sounds... Are the people who become homeless in London doing so for significantly different reasons than over here? Because most of the homeless in my city (a fairly large California coastal) aren't significantly engaged in any of the things you're alluding to and frankly would probably be happier with a bike that charged their phones since the ones who aren't just living in tents outside the 'clinic' typically roam the tourist districts to pan handle. The main issue I imagine that might be inconvenient for them is the ease of theft.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- Waterluvian 3y agoI’m not sure of the demographics in your region but are you sure your perception of homelessness is correct? Or is it just a bias where you only see the ones who aren’t busy trying to dig out?
- gnsdrths 3y agoMost of the homeless in my city migrated here from outside of the city (and often State) to come here for our weather, services, and lax attitude towards drug use as far as demographics go. We're a navy town so there's also a tragic sub-group of veterans with mental health issues but the bulk of our homeless (we actually use the term "transient" as side context) don't fall into this category and mainly came here for the conveniences. I'm sure there are some who are trying to "dig out" as you say but it's certainly not most of them and for the ones who aren't trying to do so a bike with charging capabilities would be both a mobility boost (again assuming theft wasn't a concern) and a general utility boost (smartphones are largely ubiquitous amongst our homeless and are actually extremely valuable as tools since they're both navigation aids and access points for online services offered to them in my city). This is why I was asking what the demographics of the homeless in London are like since if they resemble our population then the bike wouldn't be such a terrible idea (but I'm also still unsure about the practicality since while some of our homeless ride bikes most get around via public transit and so just putting chargers on busses would probably be more pragmatic as a service to them).
- dewey 3y agoFeels like the better solution would be to add public charging outlets (Fast food restaurants, malls,…) to OSM or some app showing them. Would also be a lot faster than paddling around and sweating.
- tgdnt 3y agoThis has to be a joke.
- karmakaze 3y agoTL;DR theory of operation > Talbot's product takes advantage of the fact that, without having to pay to take out one of these bikes, their chain will still move when pedalling backwards. This can power up the tiny pedal-powered generator contained in the portable charger. The electricity generated in the process is then stored in MyPowerbank's internal batteries, with around 25 minutes of pedalling equating to one full phone charge.
- khaki54 3y agoThere is approx zero chance that you can get a homeless person to do labor for 20 minutes, let alone the 2-5 hours this would actually take. By and large homeless are in such despair that they won't invest in activities that will benefit them in the future. If by some miracle this actually took off and all the bikes were now in use by homeless, non-paying customers, bike rental companies would implement blocking measures so they could actually get revenue. If the author used his resources and energy deliberately to get even a single homeless person back on track through conventional means, it would have a better impact on the world than this which is probably a net negative, all things considered.
- kingTug 3y agoIn America, about half of the homeless population is employed. "Homeless won't do labor" is a common misnomer.
- WarOnPrivacy 3y ago> There is approx zero chance that you can get a homeless person to do labor for 20 minutes, let alone the 2-5 hours this would actually take. And yet homeless people do labor. In fact routine living often requires much, much, much more labor when homeless, than when housed. They even have jobs. I worked when I was homeless (but was fired when they found out). That was long ago. Since then it's more difficult to find work; job portals erased most job opportunities. Of the few folks willing to give you work, you have a segment who take advantage and act in bad faith.
- Contusion3532 3y agoWow. What was their justification for firing you because of your lack of housing?
- WarOnPrivacy 3y agoThey didn't offer one. It came out I was living in my car and was told that day I wasn't needed any longer. When I started working there I was still living in the home I was born into. One day my mom, sister and I were suddenly given 2 weeks to vacate (it's complicated).
- version_five 3y agoI have an emergency radio with crank for power outages. I know it probably takes a lot of cranking to charge a phone, but I think that would reduce complexity and make it more universal than having to occupy a specific kind of bike sharing bike
- cultofmetatron 3y agoyou'd be cranking for two days straight to charge up your phone.
- op00to 3y agoOr you can do what NYC did and (sell the right to) put USB charging ports on every other block or so. In that case, you just have to source USB condoms instead of a whole rigamarole involving pedaling and stuff.
- asadhaider 3y agoThey converted a lot of telephone booths to kiosks which have free chargers built in and usually also free wifi, calls, and defibs. https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/06/bt-ad-stuffed-free-wi-fi-links-service-london/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/06/bt-ad... (old article, they're in a lot of major cities now and have been for a long time)
- op00to 3y agoI think they’re pretty cool. Privacy issues are important, but access is also important! It feels like the future. Like drinking fountains for information.
- NovemberWhiskey 3y agoFor those who don't have context on this: https://www.link.nyc/home.html https://www.link.nyc/home.html It's not just USB charging, it's also pretty fast wifi.
- HWR_14 3y agoExcept I don't think USB condoms work on USB-C ports. Or if they do, they downgrade the charging speed to almost nothing, locking it to 5V, 0.5amp.
- dazc 3y agoMost homeless people in the UK will be aware that they can charge phones in any public library. Also, most will have access to some kind of facility where they can also do stuff such as charge phones, have a shower and do laundry. If you present to the local authority as homeless you will usually be directed to a local charity that has these facilities. You will, likely, stay homeless but there is some basic help out there.
- WarOnPrivacy 3y ago> Most homeless people in the UK will be aware that they can charge phones in any public library. ..have access to some kind of facility to charge phones, have a shower and do laundry. You describe a different universe from US homelessness. Here there might be a tiny bit of religious outreach but the public (therefor public services) tends to lean toward hostility.
- dazc 3y agoSorry to hear that.
- onthecanposting 3y agoHomeless I've encountered are usually well fed and clothed and they always have cell phones. This includes the registered sex offenders with face tattoos.
- WarOnPrivacy 3y agoIt sounds like you encounter a fairly exclusive group of homeless folks. It's certainly unusual that they id themselves as sex offenders to you. I've been interacting with the local homeless community for over a decade. My ex is one. The only thing most of them are is homeless. Most have cell phones for a little while - until it gets lost or stolen or broken. Most are fed regularly sometimes and not other times. They have varying degrees of shelter on an irregular basis. Few are well clothed in a way that wouldn't be a concern in a job interview (or going inside a market or library). Few have a reliably usable address. In short, they fairly well represent unhoused Americans all over.
- thefurdrake 3y agoI see a lot of people who are down on this. I read the comments before the article, which was perhaps a mistake, because I went into the article thinking this was a lot less clever than it actually is. This is neat. This may not be The Most Practical Solution, but the idea of having a thing that you can carry around and turn local bikes into power generation seems like a perfectly-reasonable invention for me. We're talking about helping the homeless. They don't need the minmaxxed optimal solution. Not every homeless person may have access to a power outlet-- I don't know who wouldn't be able to move enough to pedal a bike but not enough to get to a public library, but that's really /not the point/. There are a lot of reasons that people end up homeless, and they can cause some really spotty/unreliable behavior. There's nothing wrong with adding ideas/solutions to the mix. There's no need for a concept like this to replace other solutions. We can use all the viable solutions at the same time.
- Frankmartin321 3y ago[dead]
- Eumenes 3y agohomeless have iphones?
- fullspectrumdev 3y agoYes. Just because you become homeless, doesn’t mean you lose every single item you own. A phone is one of the more useful/valuable possessions for a homeless person - you need some kind of internet/telephone device to engage with the services that can help you, for navigation, etc etc
- bunabhucan 3y agoI volunteer with homeless youth. A solar power bank with a light is $20 and a person experiencing homelessness can have it delivered to an Amazon locker. What this idea misses is that people experiencing homelessness are frequently time starved just trying to hustle in their day - getting to a minimum wage job without a car and the like.
- jimrandomh 3y agoThis is interesting as a gimmick, but it seems wildly impractical compared to charging a power bank from an A/C outlet in a public place. I expect most homeless people would rather have a power bank that's larger or cheaper than one that can charge from bike pedal power.
- bluescrn 3y agoThis seems about the most ridiculous way possible for a homeless person to charge a phone. If phone charging is really something that's been overlooked by the many organisations trying to help the homeless already, it's just a matter of providing a space with mains power and a few chargers - maybe homeless shelters, churches, or community centres, and letting people know where+when this is available. But I'd imagine that this is already a thing, and there's not really a need for silly contraptions? (Then try to draw attention to the problem of phones with non-user-replaceable batteries, as the world has a vast supply of inexpensive older phones, but they're no use to anybody if the battery doesn't hold a charge...)