28 ms·

macOS Sonoma is available today

435 points by mfiguiere 3y ago

zitterbewegung 3y ago
I’ve been on the release candidates and the OS is very stable and I haven’t found any major breakages or random crashes . Also, homebrew has been working great and lots of other open source software S
- nelsonfigueroa 3y ago
  Good to know! I was debating whether or not I should wait for a *.1 update.
  - ThePowerOfFuet 3y ago
    This is NEVER a bad idea.
    - chatmasta 3y ago
      It's a bad idea for release schedules that don't backport security patches to earlier major versions, but luckily that doesn't apply to Apple.
- kstrauser 3y ago
  Same for me, mostly. I had bumped into problems with apps I use: * Little Snitch needs a nightly build (status: fixed) * SoundSource doesn't work (status: fixed) * SpamSieve v2 doesn't work because Mail.app removed plugin support in favor of extensions. (status: SpamSieve v3 is out now and works) * Marked 2 broke on docs shorter than 999 visible bytes (status: still broken. Workaround: BBEdit text filter to add a bunch of lorem ipsum) * Bartender 4 doesn't work. (status: Bartender 5 is out and works) The OS itself and 1st-party apps have been mostly fine from the first beta.
  - bombcar 3y ago
    Bartender 5 is paid upgrade and only for Sonoma+ - but if you bought 4 in the last year+ it's a free upgrade. Time to put all these damn shoves and pitchforks back ...
    - kstrauser 3y ago
      True. That’s a fair policy, even if I wasn’t able to use the discount.
  - prmoustache 3y ago
    "doesn't work (status: fixed)" What the hell does that mean? If it is fixed, doesn't it means it works?
    - amazingman 3y ago
      The language of the parent is in the past tense, i.e. they ran into these issues along the way during the release candidate phase.
- shepherdjerred 3y ago
  There were a lot of problems early on, but it quickly became stable for me
signal_space 3y ago
the only thing this update borked for me is the safari kagi plugin
- leipert 3y ago
  Same on iOS 17
  - kstrauser 3y ago
    It works on my iPhone. To be clear, I'm not a Kagi support person or anything, and also not arguing that anyone's wrong for saying it's not working for them. Just saying, it is working for some people on Mac and iPhone, so it's not totally borked.
    - leipert 3y ago
      True. I just followed the instructions again and it is working. Apparently I had to allow access on all websites again and change the search engine from DDG to Google for the extension to work.
      - kstrauser 3y ago
        Interesting! I wouldn't have suspected the DDG part. I'll keep that in mind if it ever causes problems here.
- kstrauser 3y ago
  Huh. I'm using it without problems. Any chance you're using multiple Safari profiles (new feature in Sonoma) and it's not enabled in the profile you have active?
  - signal_space 3y ago
    ill double check but i mentioned it on the forums and they suggested i use orion https://kagifeedback.org/d/1708-inconsistently-redirects-to-kagi-search-on-safari-170-macos-sonoma https://kagifeedback.org/d/1708-inconsistently-redirects-to-...
fh9302 3y ago
For those curious, yes Apple did fix the Sonoma firewall bug reported by Mullvad. https://mullvad.net/en/blog/2023/9/22/macos-14-sonoma-firewall-bug-fixed/ https://mullvad.net/en/blog/2023/9/22/macos-14-sonoma-firewa...
- elashri 3y ago
  I was about to submit the same comment. This was the thing that would have prevented me from upgrading. I searched if it waa fixed. As it would have affected Little snitch and Mullvad VPN which is essential apps on my mac.
- kdrag0n 3y ago
  Yep, OrbStack's networking issue (similar PF bug) was also fixed in RC 2.
  - mdeeks 3y ago
    What about the dynamic memory allocation bug?
    - kdrag0n 3y ago
      No news on that :/
- l5870uoo9y 3y ago
  Have this affected other VPN clients as well?
- nodesocket 3y ago
  Does the built-in Apple firewall allow blocking of specific applications sending outbound traffic? I know you can block inbound traffic per application.
  - sbuk 3y ago
    Depends on what you mean by builtin. The one in settings? No. pf does, however, allow you to do this. Murus is what you need if you want/need a frontend for pf.
magnio 3y ago
Most notable change to me: > Notes: Users can view PDFs and scans of presentations, assignments, research papers, and more right inside Notes. They can also create links from one note to another to relate ideas and content. Can I annotate on PDFs in Notes as well, obviating the need for Goodnotes and friends?
- dkonofalski 3y ago
  PDF Annotation is already a system-wide OS-level feature thanks to Preview so you should be able to.
mj4e 3y ago
How do you get it? Not showing in settings.
- rogueresearch 3y ago
  https://mrmacintosh.com/macos-sonoma-full-installer-database-download-directly-from-apple/ https://mrmacintosh.com/macos-sonoma-full-installer-database...
  - mj4e 3y ago
    Thanks. Is it not available from Apple directly though?
    - mj4e 3y ago
      It's right at the top of the Mac App Store as 'featured' with this story. Yet somehoe it doesn't include an install link! https://apps.apple.com/gb/story/id1699686314 https://apps.apple.com/gb/story/id1699686314 EDIT - COMMAND + R in the settings app will reload the page
      - JoshGlazebrook 3y ago
        (In Settings -> Software Update) if anyone else is having issues figuring it out.
      - sigzero 3y ago
        That's just a "what's new". You can't install it from there.
- dddddaviddddd 3y ago
  Settings -> General -> Software Update, then Command-R if you still don't see it.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
Almondsetat 3y ago
You realize OS innovation has ground to a halt when the first feature advertised in a new version is screen savers
- RetpolineDrama 3y ago
  The new screen savers were bumped up the priority queue because Apple has a bunch of QD-OLED computers coming next year and they're worried about burn-in.
  - esafak 3y ago
    Got a source for that?
- tptacek 3y ago
  This is not the first macOS release (well, maybe the first one where they called it "macOS") where the headline feature involved screens and widgets.
  - Alex3917 3y ago
    I look forward to them removing all this functionality in four or five years, and then reintroducing it as a stunning new innovation in another four or five years after that.
    - Hoasi 3y ago
      Adobe has been famous for this annoying behavior for over a decade. Remove some cool features only to reintroduce them, sometimes years later, as a breakthrough. Annoying, but it didn't prevent them from quietly innovating.
- diebeforei485 3y ago
  Not really. Consumer behavior is not what technical people expect it to be. The main reason people update their phone OS is for new emoji. People love this stuff.
iamdamian 3y ago
Update: simscitizen has confirmed below that 1Password 7 still works in Sonoma. This will be the first macOS upgrade I won’t be doing for a while. I’d like to try it out, but I need to figure out how to migrate off of 1Password 7 (standalone) first or to make sure it still works with Sonoma. (Edit: I'm expecting that 1Password 7 will break with the new OS and make me convert to their subscription product.)
- TrueGeek 3y ago
  Does this not work well with 1Password?
  - CharlesW 3y ago
    I've been using 1Password on the Sonoma public betas and have not had any problems.
- dmd 3y ago
  Why does this upgrade require migrating off 1Password?
  - iamdamian 3y ago
    Updated to clarify. My expectation is that 1Password 7 won’t work on Sonoma. In my experience, AgileBits requires an upgrade for new versions of macOS. IIUC, 1Password 7 is also the last version that you can buy outright rather than paying for by subscription.
    - dmd 3y ago
      Thanks, that makes much more sense.
    - dpcx 3y ago
      I've never had a problem using 1Password 7 on updated versions of OSX. I'm in the same boat, and am still using 1Password 7 on Ventura after having upgraded through multiple OSs.
whalesalad 3y ago
I used to love the in depth reviews of macOS from John Siracusa. They aren’t the same since then, but I still tend to look to Ars for a full review before upgrading. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/09/macos-14-sonoma-the-ars-technica-review/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/09/macos-14-sonoma-the-...
- mig39 3y ago
  Those reviews were the best. But you could tell they took a lot of time to write and prepare. Talk about thorough!
- rmorey 3y ago
  I agree, no one does it like Siracusa did. But I do quite like the MacStories reviews of macOS by John Voorhees: https://www.macstories.net/stories/macos-sonoma-the-macstories-review/ https://www.macstories.net/stories/macos-sonoma-the-macstori...
  - lostlogin 3y ago
    There is no way anyone familiar with the guy wouldn’t already know this, but his podcast Hypercritical was great and has aged well. His is 1/3rd of ATP and there is content overlap. The main problem I find is that once he has complained about something, I can’t unsee it. It’s heavily Apple focussed and gives a lightweight and often hilarious version of his old reviews. Episode 96 ‘Windows of Siracusa County’ was amazing. https://atp.fm/ https://atp.fm/
    - kstrauser 3y ago
      Hah! Yes, I cursed him a few times for making me unable to see something slightly wrong. Like, friends don't point out kerning mistakes to friends. That stuff needed a content warning.
- jccalhoun 3y ago
  Since he has left his day job I was hoping he would start writing them again but that hasn't happened.
spicybright 3y ago
FINALLY we've come full circle and can have widgets on the desktop again! It's not like a revolutionary killer feature for me, but I just always preferred having information always in my "peripheral" instead of having to actively check a separate menu.
- crazygringo 3y ago
  Wait when were widgets ever available on the desktop before? Years ago they were on a separate dashboard screen but that wasn't the desktop. This seems entirely new, not any kind of full circle. Edit: just to clarify, I'm talking about on Macs, not Windows.
  - thangngoc89 3y ago
    Windows Vista and Windows 7 circa. Separate dashboard screen is from Windows 8
    - kube-system 3y ago
      Windows had Active Desktop way back in the day. https://duet-cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/0x0:1020x765/2400x1800/filters:focal(510x382:511x383):format(webp)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/2845994/ActiveDesktop.1402079265.jpg https://duet-cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/0x0:1020x765/2400x1800/...
      - thangngoc89 3y ago
        You learn something new everyday. We don’t have Internet during the Windows 9x circa so now ideas this is even possible.
  - paradox460 3y ago
    Desktop Accessories were on Mac since 1984. Konfabulator was a much more modern precursor to Dashboard, and existed in the early 00s. It put them directly on your desktop. Also you could make Dashboard widgets stick around by changing a plist setting
webkike 3y ago
Please, for the love of god, add native window snapping.
- oidar 3y ago
  I use the open source system tray app Rectangle for this.
  - rPlayer6554 3y ago
    I work in an environment where they won't let me download any applications like this!
    - ellisv 3y ago
      That, to me, seems like an employment problem.
  - thfuran 3y ago
    Yeah, there are some third party addons, but the built in window management is appallingly primitive. It’s just bad.
    - capableweb 3y ago
      Isn't that basically why you get Apple stuff in the first place, to have primitive but well-working things? They're not exactly famous for catering to professionals or people who want a customized experience.
      - mvdtnz 3y ago
        No that is not "basically why you get Apple stuff in the first place". I have never in my life seen either Apple or its fan base market their products this way. That is a post hoc rationalisation for their operating system missing quite a basic feature.
        3y ago
divbzero 3y ago
I’ve used Nativefier for years and am excited for this new feature described in the release notes: > Web apps let you use any website like an app, complete with an icon in the Dock for faster access and a simplified toolbar for easier browsing.
- hu3 3y ago
  Is that the PWA install feature thing? Windows/Chrome has that feature. For example accessing https://github.com https://github.com shows an install button, which creates icon for direct access and allows GitHub to have a dedicated window and notifications. https://i.imgur.com/IjxsMpA.png https://i.imgur.com/IjxsMpA.png
  - Scharkenberg 3y ago
    Edge's implementation is better.
- Obscurity4340 3y ago
  Like Fluid, kinda
- Y-bar 3y ago
  Are these separate instances/containers with regards to cache and cookies and such? I would love to have this because I have multiple Atlassian accounts I need to juggle and it is a pain today.
  - wilg 3y ago
    Safari (like Chrome) now has profiles for this also.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - pram 3y ago
    Yes it has its own cookies etc
- 3y ago
capableweb 3y ago
I still don't understand why Apple is so bent on coupling application updates together with OS updates. I just want the new changes to Safari and Notes while I don't care about the other changes, why not have Safari be a normal application downloaded from the App Store, like the rest of us pleebs have to do when publishing apps?
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- tppiotrowski 3y ago
  No need for a testing matrix (Does version X of app work with version Y of MacOS)? Not needing to bundle dependencies that you know are provided by your OS environment? Easy to investigate and fix bugs (You don't need a VM of every MacOS version on your machine)?
- andai 3y ago
  Cause then no one would update?
- mrWiz 3y ago
  This method reduces testing burden by eliminating the combination of an old OS with new app. They might also see it as an incentive - perhaps new app features act as driver for OS adoption.
  - cj 3y ago
    On the flip side, zero-day WebKit security vulnerabilities require a full OS update to patch Safari. From a security perspective decoupling from OS updates seems advantageous.
    - angulardragon03 3y ago
      RSRs [1] are sort of not this though. They’re still a bit weird, but can contain updates for WebKit and/or Safari in a very small update that installs very quickly. Also worth noting that WebKit is buried pretty deep in macOS (as it underpins a lot more than just Safari) so isn’t as easy to patch by itself. [1] https://support.apple.com/en-mk/guide/deployment/dep93ff7ea78/web https://support.apple.com/en-mk/guide/deployment/dep93ff7ea7...
divbzero 3y ago
> One-Time verification code AutoFill from Mail helps you quickly sign into sites in Safari, without leaving the browser. I’ve used SMS for 2FA even though it’s vulnerable to hijacking because AutoFill from SMS makes it so easy. AutoFill from Mail will be a welcome alternative.
- flangola7 3y ago
  So it has access to your mail? That's spooky
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - ascagnel_ 3y ago
    In my experience, and on iOS, it only works with the first-party Mail.app; trying to use a third-party app like GMail won't pull up 2FA codes.
sod 3y ago
An SDR content brightness slider for a non-apple HDR monitor/projector would be nice. Anyone knows if Sonoma has changes for this in stock? Edit: Updated now and it seems like nothing changed :(. External monitor still becomes dim for SDR content if I flick on HDR, and no slider in sight to boost the intensity. There is a projector setting as a color profile, but that only changes the contrast and colors, but not the brightness.
- ExoticPearTree 3y ago
  If I'm not mistaken, I think you can change the brightness from the projector itself.
lxgr 3y ago
> The implementations of the exfat and msdos file systems on macOS have changed; these file systems are now provided by services running in user-space instead of by kernel extensions. This sounds interesting! I really wish there was a native FUSE alternative on macOS; just recently I found myself in a pickle due to not being able to mount an ext4 boot volume on an SD card on my Mac at all. (Passing through to a VM works only via USB.)
- jurgenkesker 3y ago
  I reluctantly did buy Extfs from Paragon for this. It's too expensive I think, but there are just no free opensource solutions.
  - lxgr 3y ago
    Doesn't that require breaking glass in Secure Boot these days, just like macFUSE? I'm not really willing to install a third-party kernel extension just for a custom file system I need once every few months anymore, especially given that Apple's native exFAT drivers now apparently run in the userspace. They should just make that capability available to the actual-userspace!
    - ghusto 3y ago
      > Doesn't that require breaking glass in Secure Boot these days You mean turning off system integrity protection? No. I have both ext4 and NTFS from Paragon, and didn't have to do that.
      - lxgr 3y ago
        Not SIP, but you do need to reboot and change some things in recoveryOS involving Secure Boot (or however Apple's equivalent is called), right? https://developer.apple.com/documentation/apple-silicon/installing-a-custom-kernel-extension#Explain-the-Kext-Loading-Process-to-Users https://developer.apple.com/documentation/apple-silicon/inst...
peler 3y ago
[flagged]
uuddlrlrbaba 3y ago
Hooray! Time to update to Ventura
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
mfiguiere 3y ago
Complete list of new features in macOS Sonoma: https://www.apple.com/macos/sonoma/pdf/macOS_All_New_Features.PDF https://www.apple.com/macos/sonoma/pdf/macOS_All_New_Feature...
- de6u99er 3y ago
  Was looking for this. Thank you!
- l5870uoo9y 3y ago
  I was just about to say that there isn't any changes worthwhile in this release and that Apple employees x people in the marketing sub department that takes care of the yearly releases and they will – regardless of anything else – do the yearly release fanfare with all the bells and whistles :-).
  - Angostura 3y ago
    Well, I'm very much enjoying Gaming Mode which has certtainly bumped up my FPS in various games
- thiht 3y ago
  > Explicit language handling. The keyboard will add explicit language that you use to your personal vocabulary list and will learn this usage for each different app. Explicit language that is learned is used for autocorrect and suggestions This is ducking great.
  - kube-system 3y ago
    > and will learn this usage for each different app. Yes, not in Outlook, please.
  - corbezzoli 3y ago
    I fixed that issue by adding a few text replacements. The downsides is that I can never talk about ducks
- 3y ago
say_it_as_it_is 3y ago
> Keyboard: Autocorrect receives a comprehensive update with a transformer language model, a state-of-the-art on-device machine learning language model that improves accuracy. A refreshed design makes corrections easier to fix and inline predictions quickly finish sentences. Dictation brings next-level speech recognition and the ability to move fluidly between voice and typing.
- mousetree 3y ago
  duck
  - thiht 3y ago
    Interesting detail from the detailed release notes: > Explicit language handling. The keyboard will add explicit language that you use to your personal vocabulary list and will learn this usage for each different app. Explicit language that is learned is used for autocorrect and suggestions
EGreg 3y ago
What is this: * Screen Sharing: A new high performance mode in the Screen Sharing app delivers incredibly responsive remote access over high-bandwidth connections — enabling creative professionals to accomplish their work remotely.*
- CharlesW 3y ago
  See "Better screen sharing": https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/07/five-cool-features-and-one-weird-thing-youll-find-in-macos-14-sonoma/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/07/five-cool-features-a...
- matthew-wegner 3y ago
  I noticed this for the first time today, despite running the betas on my laptop (you need to connect to Sonoma from Sonoma, and I don't upgrade across the board). I suspect it's the underlying tech that streams macOS into the Vision Pro. The "High Performance" mode lets you select 1 or 2 virtual displays, and always blacks out the host machine completely.
ksec 3y ago
Seems strange Safari 17 is still not released for monterey.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
robbiet480 3y ago
FWIW it took 30 minutes for the update on my M2 Max MacBook Pro.
- prof_hibschman 3y ago
  cmd+f'd this... I wish we had more of the simple need-to-know in one place like -------------------- 30 min average upgrade time on M1/M2 macs -------------------- + New features - Removed features -------------------- Fixed: - Bugs -------------------- Broke: - Old feature -------------------- Third Party Breaking Changes: - Old software, feedback from dev with ETA .1 update ETA: 6 weeks
de6u99er 3y ago
I hope it can do DisplayPort Multi Stream Transport. Currently I have to connect one screen through TB4, and the other one through HDMI despite the TB4 screen being able to daisy chain through DisplayPort. One screen is a 32 inch UHD 60Hz monitor and the other one is a 24 inch 2560x1440 90Hz screen which is rotated by 90 degrees.
- DiabloD3 3y ago
  The hardware supports it fine, if you ran any other OS it'd work. OSX refuses to support it because it eats into their monitor sales that use an alternative TB-based multiplexing protocol (which is only available on Apple devices, which are, well, not the world's best monitors, yet somehow the most expensive per square inch in a lot of cases). All the various incarnations as far back as Ivy Bridge's TB2 should have working support in Windows and Linux. I have physically tested it on my MBPR from that era, and it worked, and I know of other people's newer OS-swapped Macs also working. Lack of MST support in OSX has historically blocked 4k early adopters: 4k screens exported themselves as two logical displays due to 4k monitors coming out ahead of HBR2-capable controllers. As for ARM-era Macs, as far as I know, they licensed a common ASIC block for their DisplayPort transceiver, which is also what AMD, Nvidia, and Intel have done. So, their hardware should still support it fine, but I have no clue if Asahi's work on the GPU driver has gotten MST to work.
  - de6u99er 3y ago
    Of course the gardware supports it, otherwise I couldn't connect the second rotated screen through HDMI. But I couldn't figure out why OS-X fails to support DP-MST. If it's because they want to push their own screens then shame on Apple. It's ridiculous that they refuse to support this. Iit's actually backfiring. Peoppe at work laugh when they see me attaching two cables to my Macbook ehile everyone else with different operating systems use their docking stations or daisy chaining. Even old Chromebooks support it.
    - lathiat 3y ago
      It worked on Intel macs because it worked in Windows. May be a different story on Apple Silicon though. Maybe a challenge for the Asahi Linux devs. I have no idea where in the stack MST happens and whether it requires any hardware magic.
pyr0hu 3y ago
Nice, time for the yearly reinstall. I usually reinstall my MacBook whenever the new OS releases, it keeps my machine clean and fast.
- bori5 3y ago
  Anyone know if there is any benefit to doing a reinstall vs just installing over current Ventura ? Is it for peace of mind, placebo?... Any quantitative comparisons ?
  - pyr0hu 3y ago
    For myself, peace of mind. Previously I installed them over an existing system, never had any issues. I have a repo for my dotfiles and install scripts so i can set up my system in like an hour
    - jbc1 3y ago
      Any tips to setting up macOS dotfiles? I set up a new Mac today and was going to go that route but after trying to do a diff of "defaults read" and seeing that its thousands of lines largely unrelated to macOS I gave up and changed the obvious things using the settings menu and now just have to deal with all the other minor differences as they popup.
      - pyr0hu 3y ago
        I can't help with that sorry, I keep the Mac settings on default as they are usually works for me, dotfiles only have terminal/vim/ssh/git settings :|
  - shepherdjerred 3y ago
    I find it quite nice, personally. Reinstalling yearly-ish allows me to examine what tools I'm using and see if I could replace/remove any of them.
    - 3y ago
jcoletti 3y ago
X/Twitter running as a new "Web App" is pretty solid, and a huge upgrade from the older, unmaintained Twitter macOS app. Everything pretty much works as expected & feels native, though not sure if Dock icon badge counts are supported.
- spartanatreyu 3y ago
  I prefer mastodon.social, and nitter.net (for when I need to see something on the old site)
  - jcoletti 3y ago
    Didn't know about nitter, thanks for that.
royjacobs 3y ago
Meanwhile Microsoft dropped their major Windows update today too, enabling me to ungroup taskbar items. Put THAT in your Apple and smoke it!
- jccalhoun 3y ago
  I switched to the beta of Win11 just so I could start using ungrouped taskbar items when I got tired of waiting for explorerpatcher to be updated. It is still a bit janky but I'm so glad it is there.
- ClassyJacket 3y ago
  I don't get why they removed this in the first place
  - Scharkenberg 3y ago
    They rewrote almost all of the Taskbar code for Windows 11. This was the first major update to it since the introduction of the Superbar in Windows 7.
TheAceOfHearts 3y ago
Was a bit surprised to learn that my MacBook Pro from 2017 isn't supported. It doesn't look like Sonoma has many new innovations though, so I guess I'm not missing out on much. Operating systems feel like they've really stagnated in the past decade.
_boffin_ 3y ago
Anyone know what's up with CGPDFService and why there's so many instances eating up my cpu?
- souperdeluxe 3y ago
  Same. I have 10 CGPDFService processes running for over 24 hours. Two CPU's are at 100%, and together they're using 15GB of RAM. I can SIGKILL but they come back after 5 minutes. Some people believe they're related to the slow-mo screensaver, which I disabled in my settings. It's only happening on my Mac Studio (which isn't logged in), and not on my Macbook Air (which I'm currently using).
  - souperdeluxe 3y ago
    Solution: https://www.reddit.com/r/MacOSBeta/comments/15ha2r8/comment/k33n0i6/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 https://www.reddit.com/r/MacOSBeta/comments/15ha2r8/comment/...
cglong 3y ago
So it goes... Warning: You are using macOS 11. We (and Apple) do not provide support for this old version. It is expected behaviour that some formulae will fail to build in this old version. It is expected behaviour that Homebrew will be buggy and slow. Do not create any issues about this on Homebrew's GitHub repositories. Do not create any issues even if you think this message is unrelated. Any opened issues will be immediately closed without response. Do not ask for help from Homebrew or its maintainers on social media. You may ask for help in Homebrew's discussions but are unlikely to receive a response. Try to figure out the problem yourself and submit a fix as a pull request. We will review it but may or may not accept it.
- m463 3y ago
  export HOMEBREW_NO_ANALYTICS=1
- joeman1000 3y ago
  Time to move to MacPorts.
  - esafak 3y ago
    Don't move today, because the Sonoma release is not out yet. https://www.macports.org/install.php https://www.macports.org/install.php
    - KerrAvon 3y ago
      I remember this being a huge issue with MacPorts. It would never keep up with the damn releases, so if you were working on a beta OS, you were hosed until they caught up.
      - halostatue 3y ago
        It is, but it is mostly an issue with not having enough resources for the prebuilt images. They haven’t released a package installer for Sonoma yet, but AIUI the minimal required fixes have been in the MacPorts core for several weeks. There are likely to be more issues related to Apple's switch to the `prime` linker. (I’m a port contributor and am on macports-users where this issue has come up twice. There is what I think is excessive concern about the macOS beta NDA preventing the creation of a package installer until after GA when it no longer applies. A bigger problem is the availability of sufficient build hardware as they have a smallish Mac mini multi-booting into 11, 12, and 13.)
regularjack 3y ago
I guess now it's safe for me to install Ventura.
- ExoticPearTree 3y ago
  I never had issues with MacOS. And for the past 10 years I would install it as soon as a new version came out. A few years it would take a longer time for HomeBrew to have packages for the new version right of the bat, but today I did a brew update and brew upgrade and there was an upgrade for a package that had a version for Sonoma already. Pretty nifty.
outcoldman 3y ago
Have been using macOS Sonoma since DB1, this is probably the most favorite update of the OS that I had in a while: 1. Safari Profiles. I used this browser as my primary browser for a long time, but had to use another browser (Chrome) for work, to be able to separate sessions, etc. Since DB1 I use only Safari. And it works great. 2. Widgets. I have two monitors, and love that in one of them I can see widgets with some useful information. Just wish more apps were ready with widgets. And a quick self-promotion. I am developer of the application OpenIn, and for macOS Sonoma I have added support for Safari Profiles https://loshadki.app/blog/2023-08-23-openin-4-1-beta/ https://loshadki.app/blog/2023-08-23-openin-4-1-beta/, this is the only (as far as I know) app that will let you redirect links to a specific Safari Profile based on various configurations you make.
- AiTricky 3y ago
  I am pretty happy with how my M1 mac performs on Monterey. Would you share your opinion/guess on if I will feel a difference going from Monterey to Sonoma? I will go look through the details later. However, you are in the trenches so perhaps you have thoughts?
  - outcoldman 3y ago
    To be honest I am always on the latest versions of the OS. One of the reasons because I have a lot of pet projects built mostly with SwiftUI. And each release adds some nice new features. And unfortunately to use those new features you have to use latest versions of macOS/iOS. Ventura overall did not really had any OS features that would force me to upgrade. Just a little more annoying like new Settings app, that was unusable so many times. Freeform I have never used, Weather app is nice, but there were always alternatives. Sonoma gave really good upgrade for me, those two features like Safari Profiles and Widgets. With two OS versions upgrade what you will like/hate: - new Settings application. You get used to it. But would take a while to be able to find things. + new dynamic wallpapers. This will be mostly for people who use external monitors/always connected monitors. + Notes/Reminders - if you use it a lot, you can use tags and links between notes. + If you use Docker and similar software, Virtualization framework is getting a lot of upgrades, so you might see them to work better. + Safari Profiles and Tab Groups. If you are Safari user. + Widgets might be good only on monitors, you probably would not see them on laptop screen.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
pupppet 3y ago
Every time a new MacOS version is announced the 1Password staff must be all sitting around praying Apple doesn't add any more bells and whistles to Keychain.
- runjake 3y ago
  I think this is one reason why 1Password is pivoting to enterprise.
- hatuthecat 3y ago
  This was the release that got me to migrate from 1P to Keychain. Keychain finally has enough features and the 1P’s browser extension has been finicky for me and the UX of 1P8’s desktop app feels like a considerable downgrade from 7.
  - felixfbecker 3y ago
    Can Keychain store anything that's not passwords yet? I like using 1Passwords for all sorts of stuff like SSN, drivers license, passport details, membership details, SSH keys etc
    - bloggie 3y ago
      I use the apple notes app with the lock feature for this. And sometimes without the lock feature.
    - hoorible 3y ago
      I don’t see that happening tbh, since they made Secure Notes for this purpose which (i would assume they believe) offers a better experience than storing not-logins with logins. Secure Notes offer the same level of security as the keychain IIRC.
    - jweir 3y ago
      Yes, you can create a "New Secure Note Item"
sarasasa28 3y ago
macos sodoma?
mfontani 3y ago
I hope it finally sped up the slooow animation when switching spaces... but am not holding my breath...
- deagle50 3y ago
  Yabai can eliminate it entirely (after it's updated for Sonoma), if you don't mind disabling SIP.
  - mfontani 3y ago
    Yup, I do. I do use Yabai, sans that modification. Disabling SIP "just" to get speedier/no animation doesn't seem like a good cost/benefit.
- bryceneal 3y ago
  I scanned the updates hoping for this exact same thing, but alas did not find it there. I am not comfortable disabling SIP to fix this issue personally.
- IIsi50MHz 3y ago
  If you're not concerned about losing other animations, you can enable the Reduced Motion setting in Accessibility preferences. It completely removes that animation.
  - mfontani 3y ago
    Nope, it doesn't. It reduces it greatly, but it's still there. To disable it "fully" one has to disable SIP, and that's not a great idea. Rather than "reduced" motion, I'd really look forward to "no" motion. Like I had with i3wm... practically _instantaneous_ switch between spaces/virtual desktops.
kylehotchkiss 3y ago
I love the included high quality wallpapers. Apple's spent a lot of money filming these around the world and they serve as a nice blend of vibrant but without being so high contrast I can't see my icons.
pedalpete 3y ago
Does anyone else have no idea what macOS version is which? Which came first? Is there some hidden naming protocol that I just don't grasp? I've only started using a mac part-time while I've been developing an iOS app over the past few weeks, and I keep seeing different names for the OS version. I have no idea what version I'm on, or if Big Sur came before Sierra, or what. I know I could look it up, but it seems that in the name of good user-experience, I shouldn't need to. You'd think they'd at a minimum say "people aren't going to be able to figure out which is which, so let's go in alphabetical order with our naming.
- brandall10 3y ago
  It says the <Name> <Version> in the "About This Mac" Apple menu item. In this case, it will be Sonoma 14.0. Historically versioning is weird due to the integration of NextSTEP after Job's return to the company. First it was versioned up to 9, then the NextSTEP integration was 10, then subsequent major releases were minor bumps (ie 10.1, 10.2) as OSX was a brand unto itself until 11 which rebranded to MacOS and full versions were used again. So Sonoma is the 14th release from the NextSTEP integration. I think referring to them by names eased the confusion some. This gives a good rundown: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacOS_version_history https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacOS_version_history
  - pedalpete 3y ago
    I went to the wikipedia page, which is kinda the point. No other OS requires you too look it up. Even WatchOS and iOS directly use version numbers. Saying it's due to NextStep integration sounds like a strange defense of this naming strategy (if that was your intention). They have version numbers, but they decide to use the "code name" as a product name.
    - Angostura 3y ago
      See also Windows Me, Windows XP, Windows Vista
    - akerl_ 3y ago
chatmasta 3y ago
I wish Apple would separate the updates of their bundleware from their OS. Some of the major updates have meaningful changes to the underlying OS (gatekeeper, SIP, etc.), but others - like this one - are primarily changes to frills like Messages, Notes, Safari and other Apple-native apps that I don't even use. I have no problem with Apple bundling these apps and making them work seamlessly together, and I don't even mind that they're all updated simultaneously (except for Safari, which I wish I could update independently without relying on the "Technology Preview" beta channel). But I do have a problem with upgrading my entire OS and disabling the new bloatware features just because I want to keep auto-updates enabled. I used to delay updating and then would end up way behind, which is why I enrolled in auto-update. But now it feels like I'm being held hostage to their update schedule. And for what benefit? There are hardly any useful OS-level changes in this release, but there are a bunch of new features I'll need to disable (while hoping the next auto-update doesn't break my external monitor), all powered by freshly written code contributing to an expanded attack surface. If I had my way, then I'd take the OS updates and skip all the apps. Keep the attack surface small while still meaningfully improving the core. I don't care about the rest.
- aeyes 3y ago
  You know what would be even better? If you could reliably uninstall all this junk or not even install it at all. Every time I hit some button on my keyboard and the Music app opens asking me to create an account I am reminded how hostile all commercial operating systems are.
  - bombcar 3y ago
    Somehow on migrating to a new iPhone the music app decided it needed full notification permissions, apparently because a new Taylor swift album is of the same notification level as an incoming missile strike. At least it’s easy enough to turn off.
    - aeyes 3y ago
      At least they didn't "gift" you the album like they did with U2
josu 3y ago
>Reminders: Intelligent grocery lists in Reminders streamline weekly trips to the store by organizing lists into sections and arranging them horizontally using a new column view. Not much left to improve, I guess.
Reason077 3y ago
I guess I should finally upgrade to Ventura now that Sonoma is out.
WoodenChair 3y ago
We recently had a thread on HN about how bad iCloud Drive is. Well it struck again... I upgraded to Sonoma and then it promptly started re-syncing all few hundred thousand of my files. It's just not dependable. If I could do it all over again I would have invested in DropBox years ago... but I am so deeply in the Apple ecosystem including needing their Premier bundle for various family services it seems silly not to use this built-in service.
slmjkdbtl 3y ago
Still hoping for the death of .DS_Store every macOS release.
- Aaron2222 3y ago
  Yeah. I don't know why they didn't just move it to an extended attribute as part of the APFS transition.
slmjkdbtl 3y ago
Is there any update to Music.app? 50% of my work on a computer is managing my local music library, and the app is extremely buggy since the rewrite in Big Sur. Want to make sure it doesn't become more buggy in this release.
- yinyang_in 3y ago
  I thought it was just me, albums getting duplicated with few one song in one and most in other. What issues you face with music app ?
  - slmjkdbtl 3y ago
    Yeah album duplication is the most annoying, also - Search sometimes doesn't work (can be solved by exiting all previous searches with the back button) - Tag editing sometimes doesn't work (can be solved by doing it again and again) - My status bar always say "syncing" when it's not
- RockRobotRock 3y ago
  Sorry if this isn't helpful, but you should consider a Subsonic compatible music manager. I use Navidrome hosted on a server that indexes my music on Dropbox.
- RunSet 3y ago
  I wish there was some way to entirely disable the macOS music player when it is not in use. I am referring in particular to the visual element outlined in the red rectangle in the image below. https://i.imgur.com/6uOjflM.jpg https://i.imgur.com/6uOjflM.jpg It is a small thing, but as annoying in its way to me as the blank space in the Windows 11 Start Menu that remains when the advertisements displayed there by default are disabled.
rayiner 3y ago
This is a year of work by a trillion dollar company? Steve Jobs would have kicked someone’s ass.
- ribosometronome 3y ago
  RTO productivity!
- xyst 3y ago
  Feels more like a bug fix release. Feels more snappier on M1. Plus they fixed the god awful auto switching for AirPods (phone to mac). Much more seamless
- bombcar 3y ago
  Steve Jobs released Snow Leopard. The ass kicking might have been to make something like Sonoma.
mukundesh 3y ago
Safari finally has the Chrome feature that I miss the most, ability to create separate app like experience for a particular website.
flumpcakes 3y ago
I'm very glad they've fixed the performance issue with stage manager. Before macOS Sonoma using mission control while having stage manager enabled would be very choppy. This seems to have been resolved and now I can finally use stage manager on macOS.
nunodonato 3y ago
they are really going hard on the saturated colors for everything these days
jd3 3y ago
Sonoma UI feels great. I'm also excited that they finally fixed Quartz Debug — the "Enable Vertical Sync" option finally works again when disabled. My mouse feels snappier and there's noticeably less delay when moving windows around.
- nasretdinov 3y ago
  You mean there is less delay when VSync is off, right?
  - jd3 3y ago
    Yep!
- Klonoar 3y ago
  Is that meant to say “disable”?
  - jd3 3y ago
    Yep, disabled.
- sergiomattei 3y ago
  Quartz Debug. That’s a name I haven’t heard in a while.
  - jd3 3y ago
    It's still being updated and included in the "Additional Tools for Xcode 15"[0] and is the only way to disable vsync/"Beam Sync" at the os level using Apple tooling, afaik. Beamoff[1]/beamsync.py[2] are good 3rd part solutions, though. I use my m1 mbp in clamshell mode connected to a 75hz 1920x1080 ips all day every day, so until I can buy a monitor that supports adaptive sync, the reduction in latency that disabling vsync brings is worth it to me. [0]: https://developer.apple.com/download/all/?q=Additional%20Tools https://developer.apple.com/download/all/?q=Additional%20Too... [1]: https://github.com/JasF/beamoff https://github.com/JasF/beamoff [2]: https://gist.github.com/pudquick/2ab183707545413ae9c6#file-beamsync-py https://gist.github.com/pudquick/2ab183707545413ae9c6#file-b...
tempodox 3y ago
And remember, never install the .0 version of a macOS on a mission-critical machine, or at least do it on a separate volume.
tempodox 3y ago
It's quite telling that they had to invent “Game Mode”. The OS has become so sluggish that you can only run games with the humblest resource requirements.
wigster 3y ago
probably just me, but Sonoma sounds like a terrible name. I'm not familiar with the region in California (unlike its predecessors) and it just links to Carcinoma in my mind.
- thadk 3y ago
  The iconic Windows XP photograph was done in Sonoma County, so the focus on new overhead views of Sonoma County which "crest that hill" is probably part of their tongue and cheek goal here.
Lio 3y ago
First thing I notice is that the notch is now highly visible. Even with a dark wallpaper or no transparency everything is the wrong shade to hide it. I'll bet some MBA at Apple thinks it's really import to get that notch into everyone's face. :(
Geekette 3y ago
Not all can be upgraded to Sonoma. These pages help identify your Mac model and the newest compatible operating system it can be upgraded to: MacBook Pro https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201300 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201300 MacBook Air https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201862 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201862 iMac/iMac Pro https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201634 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201634 Mac Pro https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202888 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202888 Mac Studio https://www.apple.com/mac-studio/ https://www.apple.com/mac-studio/ Mac Mini https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201894 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201894

435 points by mfiguiere 3y ago

I’ve been on the release candidates and the OS is very stable and I haven’t found any major breakages or random crashes . Also, homebrew has been working great and lots of other open source software S

nelsonfigueroa 3y ago
Good to know! I was debating whether or not I should wait for a *.1 update.
- ThePowerOfFuet 3y ago
  This is NEVER a bad idea.
  - chatmasta 3y ago
    It's a bad idea for release schedules that don't backport security patches to earlier major versions, but luckily that doesn't apply to Apple.
kstrauser 3y ago
Same for me, mostly. I had bumped into problems with apps I use: * Little Snitch needs a nightly build (status: fixed) * SoundSource doesn't work (status: fixed) * SpamSieve v2 doesn't work because Mail.app removed plugin support in favor of extensions. (status: SpamSieve v3 is out now and works) * Marked 2 broke on docs shorter than 999 visible bytes (status: still broken. Workaround: BBEdit text filter to add a bunch of lorem ipsum) * Bartender 4 doesn't work. (status: Bartender 5 is out and works) The OS itself and 1st-party apps have been mostly fine from the first beta.
- bombcar 3y ago
  Bartender 5 is paid upgrade and only for Sonoma+ - but if you bought 4 in the last year+ it's a free upgrade. Time to put all these damn shoves and pitchforks back ...
  - kstrauser 3y ago
    True. That’s a fair policy, even if I wasn’t able to use the discount.
- prmoustache 3y ago
  "doesn't work (status: fixed)" What the hell does that mean? If it is fixed, doesn't it means it works?
  - amazingman 3y ago
    The language of the parent is in the past tense, i.e. they ran into these issues along the way during the release candidate phase.
shepherdjerred 3y ago
There were a lot of problems early on, but it quickly became stable for me

signal_space 3y ago

the only thing this update borked for me is the safari kagi plugin

leipert 3y ago
Same on iOS 17
- kstrauser 3y ago
  It works on my iPhone. To be clear, I'm not a Kagi support person or anything, and also not arguing that anyone's wrong for saying it's not working for them. Just saying, it is working for some people on Mac and iPhone, so it's not totally borked.
  - leipert 3y ago
    True. I just followed the instructions again and it is working. Apparently I had to allow access on all websites again and change the search engine from DDG to Google for the extension to work.
    - kstrauser 3y ago
      Interesting! I wouldn't have suspected the DDG part. I'll keep that in mind if it ever causes problems here.
kstrauser 3y ago
Huh. I'm using it without problems. Any chance you're using multiple Safari profiles (new feature in Sonoma) and it's not enabled in the profile you have active?
- signal_space 3y ago
  ill double check but i mentioned it on the forums and they suggested i use orion https://kagifeedback.org/d/1708-inconsistently-redirects-to-kagi-search-on-safari-170-macos-sonoma https://kagifeedback.org/d/1708-inconsistently-redirects-to-...

fh9302 3y ago

For those curious, yes Apple did fix the Sonoma firewall bug reported by Mullvad. https://mullvad.net/en/blog/2023/9/22/macos-14-sonoma-firewall-bug-fixed/ https://mullvad.net/en/blog/2023/9/22/macos-14-sonoma-firewa...

elashri 3y ago
I was about to submit the same comment. This was the thing that would have prevented me from upgrading. I searched if it waa fixed. As it would have affected Little snitch and Mullvad VPN which is essential apps on my mac.
kdrag0n 3y ago
Yep, OrbStack's networking issue (similar PF bug) was also fixed in RC 2.
- mdeeks 3y ago
  What about the dynamic memory allocation bug?
  - kdrag0n 3y ago
    No news on that :/
l5870uoo9y 3y ago
Have this affected other VPN clients as well?
nodesocket 3y ago
Does the built-in Apple firewall allow blocking of specific applications sending outbound traffic? I know you can block inbound traffic per application.
- sbuk 3y ago
  Depends on what you mean by builtin. The one in settings? No. pf does, however, allow you to do this. Murus is what you need if you want/need a frontend for pf.

magnio 3y ago

Most notable change to me: > Notes: Users can view PDFs and scans of presentations, assignments, research papers, and more right inside Notes. They can also create links from one note to another to relate ideas and content. Can I annotate on PDFs in Notes as well, obviating the need for Goodnotes and friends?

dkonofalski 3y ago
PDF Annotation is already a system-wide OS-level feature thanks to Preview so you should be able to.

mj4e 3y ago

How do you get it? Not showing in settings.

rogueresearch 3y ago
https://mrmacintosh.com/macos-sonoma-full-installer-database-download-directly-from-apple/ https://mrmacintosh.com/macos-sonoma-full-installer-database...
- mj4e 3y ago
  Thanks. Is it not available from Apple directly though?
  - mj4e 3y ago
    It's right at the top of the Mac App Store as 'featured' with this story. Yet somehoe it doesn't include an install link! https://apps.apple.com/gb/story/id1699686314 https://apps.apple.com/gb/story/id1699686314 EDIT - COMMAND + R in the settings app will reload the page
    - JoshGlazebrook 3y ago
      (In Settings -> Software Update) if anyone else is having issues figuring it out.
    - sigzero 3y ago
      That's just a "what's new". You can't install it from there.
dddddaviddddd 3y ago
Settings -> General -> Software Update, then Command-R if you still don't see it.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

Almondsetat 3y ago

You realize OS innovation has ground to a halt when the first feature advertised in a new version is screen savers

RetpolineDrama 3y ago
The new screen savers were bumped up the priority queue because Apple has a bunch of QD-OLED computers coming next year and they're worried about burn-in.
- esafak 3y ago
  Got a source for that?
tptacek 3y ago
This is not the first macOS release (well, maybe the first one where they called it "macOS") where the headline feature involved screens and widgets.
- Alex3917 3y ago
  I look forward to them removing all this functionality in four or five years, and then reintroducing it as a stunning new innovation in another four or five years after that.
  - Hoasi 3y ago
    Adobe has been famous for this annoying behavior for over a decade. Remove some cool features only to reintroduce them, sometimes years later, as a breakthrough. Annoying, but it didn't prevent them from quietly innovating.
diebeforei485 3y ago
Not really. Consumer behavior is not what technical people expect it to be. The main reason people update their phone OS is for new emoji. People love this stuff.

iamdamian 3y ago

Update: simscitizen has confirmed below that 1Password 7 still works in Sonoma. This will be the first macOS upgrade I won’t be doing for a while. I’d like to try it out, but I need to figure out how to migrate off of 1Password 7 (standalone) first or to make sure it still works with Sonoma. (Edit: I'm expecting that 1Password 7 will break with the new OS and make me convert to their subscription product.)

TrueGeek 3y ago
Does this not work well with 1Password?
- CharlesW 3y ago
  I've been using 1Password on the Sonoma public betas and have not had any problems.
dmd 3y ago
Why does this upgrade require migrating off 1Password?
- iamdamian 3y ago
  Updated to clarify. My expectation is that 1Password 7 won’t work on Sonoma. In my experience, AgileBits requires an upgrade for new versions of macOS. IIUC, 1Password 7 is also the last version that you can buy outright rather than paying for by subscription.
  - dmd 3y ago
    Thanks, that makes much more sense.
  - dpcx 3y ago
    I've never had a problem using 1Password 7 on updated versions of OSX. I'm in the same boat, and am still using 1Password 7 on Ventura after having upgraded through multiple OSs.

whalesalad 3y ago

I used to love the in depth reviews of macOS from John Siracusa. They aren’t the same since then, but I still tend to look to Ars for a full review before upgrading. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/09/macos-14-sonoma-the-ars-technica-review/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/09/macos-14-sonoma-the-...

mig39 3y ago
Those reviews were the best. But you could tell they took a lot of time to write and prepare. Talk about thorough!
rmorey 3y ago
I agree, no one does it like Siracusa did. But I do quite like the MacStories reviews of macOS by John Voorhees: https://www.macstories.net/stories/macos-sonoma-the-macstories-review/ https://www.macstories.net/stories/macos-sonoma-the-macstori...
- lostlogin 3y ago
  There is no way anyone familiar with the guy wouldn’t already know this, but his podcast Hypercritical was great and has aged well. His is 1/3rd of ATP and there is content overlap. The main problem I find is that once he has complained about something, I can’t unsee it. It’s heavily Apple focussed and gives a lightweight and often hilarious version of his old reviews. Episode 96 ‘Windows of Siracusa County’ was amazing. https://atp.fm/ https://atp.fm/
  - kstrauser 3y ago
    Hah! Yes, I cursed him a few times for making me unable to see something slightly wrong. Like, friends don't point out kerning mistakes to friends. That stuff needed a content warning.
jccalhoun 3y ago
Since he has left his day job I was hoping he would start writing them again but that hasn't happened.

spicybright 3y ago

FINALLY we've come full circle and can have widgets on the desktop again! It's not like a revolutionary killer feature for me, but I just always preferred having information always in my "peripheral" instead of having to actively check a separate menu.

crazygringo 3y ago
Wait when were widgets ever available on the desktop before? Years ago they were on a separate dashboard screen but that wasn't the desktop. This seems entirely new, not any kind of full circle. Edit: just to clarify, I'm talking about on Macs, not Windows.
- thangngoc89 3y ago
  Windows Vista and Windows 7 circa. Separate dashboard screen is from Windows 8
  - kube-system 3y ago
    Windows had Active Desktop way back in the day. https://duet-cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/0x0:1020x765/2400x1800/filters:focal(510x382:511x383):format(webp)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/2845994/ActiveDesktop.1402079265.jpg https://duet-cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/0x0:1020x765/2400x1800/...
    - thangngoc89 3y ago
      You learn something new everyday. We don’t have Internet during the Windows 9x circa so now ideas this is even possible.
- paradox460 3y ago
  Desktop Accessories were on Mac since 1984. Konfabulator was a much more modern precursor to Dashboard, and existed in the early 00s. It put them directly on your desktop. Also you could make Dashboard widgets stick around by changing a plist setting

webkike 3y ago

Please, for the love of god, add native window snapping.

oidar 3y ago
I use the open source system tray app Rectangle for this.
- rPlayer6554 3y ago
  I work in an environment where they won't let me download any applications like this!
  - ellisv 3y ago
    That, to me, seems like an employment problem.
- thfuran 3y ago
  Yeah, there are some third party addons, but the built in window management is appallingly primitive. It’s just bad.
  - capableweb 3y ago
    Isn't that basically why you get Apple stuff in the first place, to have primitive but well-working things? They're not exactly famous for catering to professionals or people who want a customized experience.
    - mvdtnz 3y ago
      No that is not "basically why you get Apple stuff in the first place". I have never in my life seen either Apple or its fan base market their products this way. That is a post hoc rationalisation for their operating system missing quite a basic feature.
      - 3y ago

divbzero 3y ago

I’ve used Nativefier for years and am excited for this new feature described in the release notes: > Web apps let you use any website like an app, complete with an icon in the Dock for faster access and a simplified toolbar for easier browsing.

hu3 3y ago
Is that the PWA install feature thing? Windows/Chrome has that feature. For example accessing https://github.com https://github.com shows an install button, which creates icon for direct access and allows GitHub to have a dedicated window and notifications. https://i.imgur.com/IjxsMpA.png https://i.imgur.com/IjxsMpA.png
- Scharkenberg 3y ago
  Edge's implementation is better.
Obscurity4340 3y ago
Like Fluid, kinda
Y-bar 3y ago
Are these separate instances/containers with regards to cache and cookies and such? I would love to have this because I have multiple Atlassian accounts I need to juggle and it is a pain today.
- wilg 3y ago
  Safari (like Chrome) now has profiles for this also.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- pram 3y ago
  Yes it has its own cookies etc
3y ago

capableweb 3y ago

I still don't understand why Apple is so bent on coupling application updates together with OS updates. I just want the new changes to Safari and Notes while I don't care about the other changes, why not have Safari be a normal application downloaded from the App Store, like the rest of us pleebs have to do when publishing apps?

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
tppiotrowski 3y ago
No need for a testing matrix (Does version X of app work with version Y of MacOS)? Not needing to bundle dependencies that you know are provided by your OS environment? Easy to investigate and fix bugs (You don't need a VM of every MacOS version on your machine)?
andai 3y ago
Cause then no one would update?
mrWiz 3y ago
This method reduces testing burden by eliminating the combination of an old OS with new app. They might also see it as an incentive - perhaps new app features act as driver for OS adoption.
- cj 3y ago
  On the flip side, zero-day WebKit security vulnerabilities require a full OS update to patch Safari. From a security perspective decoupling from OS updates seems advantageous.
  - angulardragon03 3y ago
    RSRs [1] are sort of not this though. They’re still a bit weird, but can contain updates for WebKit and/or Safari in a very small update that installs very quickly. Also worth noting that WebKit is buried pretty deep in macOS (as it underpins a lot more than just Safari) so isn’t as easy to patch by itself. [1] https://support.apple.com/en-mk/guide/deployment/dep93ff7ea78/web https://support.apple.com/en-mk/guide/deployment/dep93ff7ea7...

divbzero 3y ago

> One-Time verification code AutoFill from Mail helps you quickly sign into sites in Safari, without leaving the browser. I’ve used SMS for 2FA even though it’s vulnerable to hijacking because AutoFill from SMS makes it so easy. AutoFill from Mail will be a welcome alternative.

flangola7 3y ago
So it has access to your mail? That's spooky
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- ascagnel_ 3y ago
  In my experience, and on iOS, it only works with the first-party Mail.app; trying to use a third-party app like GMail won't pull up 2FA codes.

sod 3y ago

An SDR content brightness slider for a non-apple HDR monitor/projector would be nice. Anyone knows if Sonoma has changes for this in stock? Edit: Updated now and it seems like nothing changed :(. External monitor still becomes dim for SDR content if I flick on HDR, and no slider in sight to boost the intensity. There is a projector setting as a color profile, but that only changes the contrast and colors, but not the brightness.

ExoticPearTree 3y ago
If I'm not mistaken, I think you can change the brightness from the projector itself.

lxgr 3y ago

> The implementations of the exfat and msdos file systems on macOS have changed; these file systems are now provided by services running in user-space instead of by kernel extensions. This sounds interesting! I really wish there was a native FUSE alternative on macOS; just recently I found myself in a pickle due to not being able to mount an ext4 boot volume on an SD card on my Mac at all. (Passing through to a VM works only via USB.)

jurgenkesker 3y ago
I reluctantly did buy Extfs from Paragon for this. It's too expensive I think, but there are just no free opensource solutions.
- lxgr 3y ago
  Doesn't that require breaking glass in Secure Boot these days, just like macFUSE? I'm not really willing to install a third-party kernel extension just for a custom file system I need once every few months anymore, especially given that Apple's native exFAT drivers now apparently run in the userspace. They should just make that capability available to the actual-userspace!
  - ghusto 3y ago
    > Doesn't that require breaking glass in Secure Boot these days You mean turning off system integrity protection? No. I have both ext4 and NTFS from Paragon, and didn't have to do that.
    - lxgr 3y ago
      Not SIP, but you do need to reboot and change some things in recoveryOS involving Secure Boot (or however Apple's equivalent is called), right? https://developer.apple.com/documentation/apple-silicon/installing-a-custom-kernel-extension#Explain-the-Kext-Loading-Process-to-Users https://developer.apple.com/documentation/apple-silicon/inst...

peler 3y ago

[flagged]

uuddlrlrbaba 3y ago

Hooray! Time to update to Ventura

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

mfiguiere 3y ago

Complete list of new features in macOS Sonoma: https://www.apple.com/macos/sonoma/pdf/macOS_All_New_Features.PDF https://www.apple.com/macos/sonoma/pdf/macOS_All_New_Feature...

de6u99er 3y ago
Was looking for this. Thank you!
l5870uoo9y 3y ago
I was just about to say that there isn't any changes worthwhile in this release and that Apple employees x people in the marketing sub department that takes care of the yearly releases and they will – regardless of anything else – do the yearly release fanfare with all the bells and whistles :-).
- Angostura 3y ago
  Well, I'm very much enjoying Gaming Mode which has certtainly bumped up my FPS in various games
thiht 3y ago
> Explicit language handling. The keyboard will add explicit language that you use to your personal vocabulary list and will learn this usage for each different app. Explicit language that is learned is used for autocorrect and suggestions This is ducking great.
- kube-system 3y ago
  > and will learn this usage for each different app. Yes, not in Outlook, please.
- corbezzoli 3y ago
  I fixed that issue by adding a few text replacements. The downsides is that I can never talk about ducks
3y ago

say_it_as_it_is 3y ago

> Keyboard: Autocorrect receives a comprehensive update with a transformer language model, a state-of-the-art on-device machine learning language model that improves accuracy. A refreshed design makes corrections easier to fix and inline predictions quickly finish sentences. Dictation brings next-level speech recognition and the ability to move fluidly between voice and typing.

mousetree 3y ago
duck
- thiht 3y ago
  Interesting detail from the detailed release notes: > Explicit language handling. The keyboard will add explicit language that you use to your personal vocabulary list and will learn this usage for each different app. Explicit language that is learned is used for autocorrect and suggestions

EGreg 3y ago

What is this: * Screen Sharing: A new high performance mode in the Screen Sharing app delivers incredibly responsive remote access over high-bandwidth connections — enabling creative professionals to accomplish their work remotely.*

CharlesW 3y ago
See "Better screen sharing": https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/07/five-cool-features-and-one-weird-thing-youll-find-in-macos-14-sonoma/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/07/five-cool-features-a...
matthew-wegner 3y ago
I noticed this for the first time today, despite running the betas on my laptop (you need to connect to Sonoma from Sonoma, and I don't upgrade across the board). I suspect it's the underlying tech that streams macOS into the Vision Pro. The "High Performance" mode lets you select 1 or 2 virtual displays, and always blacks out the host machine completely.

ksec 3y ago

Seems strange Safari 17 is still not released for monterey.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

robbiet480 3y ago

FWIW it took 30 minutes for the update on my M2 Max MacBook Pro.

prof_hibschman 3y ago
cmd+f'd this... I wish we had more of the simple need-to-know in one place like -------------------- 30 min average upgrade time on M1/M2 macs -------------------- + New features - Removed features -------------------- Fixed: - Bugs -------------------- Broke: - Old feature -------------------- Third Party Breaking Changes: - Old software, feedback from dev with ETA .1 update ETA: 6 weeks

de6u99er 3y ago

I hope it can do DisplayPort Multi Stream Transport. Currently I have to connect one screen through TB4, and the other one through HDMI despite the TB4 screen being able to daisy chain through DisplayPort. One screen is a 32 inch UHD 60Hz monitor and the other one is a 24 inch 2560x1440 90Hz screen which is rotated by 90 degrees.

DiabloD3 3y ago
The hardware supports it fine, if you ran any other OS it'd work. OSX refuses to support it because it eats into their monitor sales that use an alternative TB-based multiplexing protocol (which is only available on Apple devices, which are, well, not the world's best monitors, yet somehow the most expensive per square inch in a lot of cases). All the various incarnations as far back as Ivy Bridge's TB2 should have working support in Windows and Linux. I have physically tested it on my MBPR from that era, and it worked, and I know of other people's newer OS-swapped Macs also working. Lack of MST support in OSX has historically blocked 4k early adopters: 4k screens exported themselves as two logical displays due to 4k monitors coming out ahead of HBR2-capable controllers. As for ARM-era Macs, as far as I know, they licensed a common ASIC block for their DisplayPort transceiver, which is also what AMD, Nvidia, and Intel have done. So, their hardware should still support it fine, but I have no clue if Asahi's work on the GPU driver has gotten MST to work.
- de6u99er 3y ago
  Of course the gardware supports it, otherwise I couldn't connect the second rotated screen through HDMI. But I couldn't figure out why OS-X fails to support DP-MST. If it's because they want to push their own screens then shame on Apple. It's ridiculous that they refuse to support this. Iit's actually backfiring. Peoppe at work laugh when they see me attaching two cables to my Macbook ehile everyone else with different operating systems use their docking stations or daisy chaining. Even old Chromebooks support it.
  - lathiat 3y ago
    It worked on Intel macs because it worked in Windows. May be a different story on Apple Silicon though. Maybe a challenge for the Asahi Linux devs. I have no idea where in the stack MST happens and whether it requires any hardware magic.

pyr0hu 3y ago

Nice, time for the yearly reinstall. I usually reinstall my MacBook whenever the new OS releases, it keeps my machine clean and fast.

bori5 3y ago
Anyone know if there is any benefit to doing a reinstall vs just installing over current Ventura ? Is it for peace of mind, placebo?... Any quantitative comparisons ?
- pyr0hu 3y ago
  For myself, peace of mind. Previously I installed them over an existing system, never had any issues. I have a repo for my dotfiles and install scripts so i can set up my system in like an hour
  - jbc1 3y ago
    Any tips to setting up macOS dotfiles? I set up a new Mac today and was going to go that route but after trying to do a diff of "defaults read" and seeing that its thousands of lines largely unrelated to macOS I gave up and changed the obvious things using the settings menu and now just have to deal with all the other minor differences as they popup.
    - pyr0hu 3y ago
      I can't help with that sorry, I keep the Mac settings on default as they are usually works for me, dotfiles only have terminal/vim/ssh/git settings :|
- shepherdjerred 3y ago
  I find it quite nice, personally. Reinstalling yearly-ish allows me to examine what tools I'm using and see if I could replace/remove any of them.
  - 3y ago

jcoletti 3y ago

X/Twitter running as a new "Web App" is pretty solid, and a huge upgrade from the older, unmaintained Twitter macOS app. Everything pretty much works as expected & feels native, though not sure if Dock icon badge counts are supported.

spartanatreyu 3y ago
I prefer mastodon.social, and nitter.net (for when I need to see something on the old site)
- jcoletti 3y ago
  Didn't know about nitter, thanks for that.

royjacobs 3y ago

Meanwhile Microsoft dropped their major Windows update today too, enabling me to ungroup taskbar items. Put THAT in your Apple and smoke it!

jccalhoun 3y ago
I switched to the beta of Win11 just so I could start using ungrouped taskbar items when I got tired of waiting for explorerpatcher to be updated. It is still a bit janky but I'm so glad it is there.
ClassyJacket 3y ago
I don't get why they removed this in the first place
- Scharkenberg 3y ago
  They rewrote almost all of the Taskbar code for Windows 11. This was the first major update to it since the introduction of the Superbar in Windows 7.

TheAceOfHearts 3y ago

Was a bit surprised to learn that my MacBook Pro from 2017 isn't supported. It doesn't look like Sonoma has many new innovations though, so I guess I'm not missing out on much. Operating systems feel like they've really stagnated in the past decade.

_boffin_ 3y ago

Anyone know what's up with CGPDFService and why there's so many instances eating up my cpu?

souperdeluxe 3y ago
Same. I have 10 CGPDFService processes running for over 24 hours. Two CPU's are at 100%, and together they're using 15GB of RAM. I can SIGKILL but they come back after 5 minutes. Some people believe they're related to the slow-mo screensaver, which I disabled in my settings. It's only happening on my Mac Studio (which isn't logged in), and not on my Macbook Air (which I'm currently using).
- souperdeluxe 3y ago
  Solution: https://www.reddit.com/r/MacOSBeta/comments/15ha2r8/comment/k33n0i6/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 https://www.reddit.com/r/MacOSBeta/comments/15ha2r8/comment/...

cglong 3y ago

So it goes... Warning: You are using macOS 11. We (and Apple) do not provide support for this old version. It is expected behaviour that some formulae will fail to build in this old version. It is expected behaviour that Homebrew will be buggy and slow. Do not create any issues about this on Homebrew's GitHub repositories. Do not create any issues even if you think this message is unrelated. Any opened issues will be immediately closed without response. Do not ask for help from Homebrew or its maintainers on social media. You may ask for help in Homebrew's discussions but are unlikely to receive a response. Try to figure out the problem yourself and submit a fix as a pull request. We will review it but may or may not accept it.

m463 3y ago
export HOMEBREW_NO_ANALYTICS=1
joeman1000 3y ago
Time to move to MacPorts.
- esafak 3y ago
  Don't move today, because the Sonoma release is not out yet. https://www.macports.org/install.php https://www.macports.org/install.php
  - KerrAvon 3y ago
    I remember this being a huge issue with MacPorts. It would never keep up with the damn releases, so if you were working on a beta OS, you were hosed until they caught up.
    - halostatue 3y ago
      It is, but it is mostly an issue with not having enough resources for the prebuilt images. They haven’t released a package installer for Sonoma yet, but AIUI the minimal required fixes have been in the MacPorts core for several weeks. There are likely to be more issues related to Apple's switch to the `prime` linker. (I’m a port contributor and am on macports-users where this issue has come up twice. There is what I think is excessive concern about the macOS beta NDA preventing the creation of a package installer until after GA when it no longer applies. A bigger problem is the availability of sufficient build hardware as they have a smallish Mac mini multi-booting into 11, 12, and 13.)

regularjack 3y ago

I guess now it's safe for me to install Ventura.

ExoticPearTree 3y ago
I never had issues with MacOS. And for the past 10 years I would install it as soon as a new version came out. A few years it would take a longer time for HomeBrew to have packages for the new version right of the bat, but today I did a brew update and brew upgrade and there was an upgrade for a package that had a version for Sonoma already. Pretty nifty.

outcoldman 3y ago

Have been using macOS Sonoma since DB1, this is probably the most favorite update of the OS that I had in a while: 1. Safari Profiles. I used this browser as my primary browser for a long time, but had to use another browser (Chrome) for work, to be able to separate sessions, etc. Since DB1 I use only Safari. And it works great. 2. Widgets. I have two monitors, and love that in one of them I can see widgets with some useful information. Just wish more apps were ready with widgets. And a quick self-promotion. I am developer of the application OpenIn, and for macOS Sonoma I have added support for Safari Profiles https://loshadki.app/blog/2023-08-23-openin-4-1-beta/ https://loshadki.app/blog/2023-08-23-openin-4-1-beta/, this is the only (as far as I know) app that will let you redirect links to a specific Safari Profile based on various configurations you make.

AiTricky 3y ago
I am pretty happy with how my M1 mac performs on Monterey. Would you share your opinion/guess on if I will feel a difference going from Monterey to Sonoma? I will go look through the details later. However, you are in the trenches so perhaps you have thoughts?
- outcoldman 3y ago
  To be honest I am always on the latest versions of the OS. One of the reasons because I have a lot of pet projects built mostly with SwiftUI. And each release adds some nice new features. And unfortunately to use those new features you have to use latest versions of macOS/iOS. Ventura overall did not really had any OS features that would force me to upgrade. Just a little more annoying like new Settings app, that was unusable so many times. Freeform I have never used, Weather app is nice, but there were always alternatives. Sonoma gave really good upgrade for me, those two features like Safari Profiles and Widgets. With two OS versions upgrade what you will like/hate: - new Settings application. You get used to it. But would take a while to be able to find things. + new dynamic wallpapers. This will be mostly for people who use external monitors/always connected monitors. + Notes/Reminders - if you use it a lot, you can use tags and links between notes. + If you use Docker and similar software, Virtualization framework is getting a lot of upgrades, so you might see them to work better. + Safari Profiles and Tab Groups. If you are Safari user. + Widgets might be good only on monitors, you probably would not see them on laptop screen.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

pupppet 3y ago

Every time a new MacOS version is announced the 1Password staff must be all sitting around praying Apple doesn't add any more bells and whistles to Keychain.

runjake 3y ago
I think this is one reason why 1Password is pivoting to enterprise.
hatuthecat 3y ago
This was the release that got me to migrate from 1P to Keychain. Keychain finally has enough features and the 1P’s browser extension has been finicky for me and the UX of 1P8’s desktop app feels like a considerable downgrade from 7.
- felixfbecker 3y ago
  Can Keychain store anything that's not passwords yet? I like using 1Passwords for all sorts of stuff like SSN, drivers license, passport details, membership details, SSH keys etc
  - bloggie 3y ago
    I use the apple notes app with the lock feature for this. And sometimes without the lock feature.
  - hoorible 3y ago
    I don’t see that happening tbh, since they made Secure Notes for this purpose which (i would assume they believe) offers a better experience than storing not-logins with logins. Secure Notes offer the same level of security as the keychain IIRC.
  - jweir 3y ago
    Yes, you can create a "New Secure Note Item"

sarasasa28 3y ago

macos sodoma?

mfontani 3y ago

I hope it finally sped up the slooow animation when switching spaces... but am not holding my breath...

deagle50 3y ago
Yabai can eliminate it entirely (after it's updated for Sonoma), if you don't mind disabling SIP.
- mfontani 3y ago
  Yup, I do. I do use Yabai, sans that modification. Disabling SIP "just" to get speedier/no animation doesn't seem like a good cost/benefit.
bryceneal 3y ago
I scanned the updates hoping for this exact same thing, but alas did not find it there. I am not comfortable disabling SIP to fix this issue personally.
IIsi50MHz 3y ago
If you're not concerned about losing other animations, you can enable the Reduced Motion setting in Accessibility preferences. It completely removes that animation.
- mfontani 3y ago
  Nope, it doesn't. It reduces it greatly, but it's still there. To disable it "fully" one has to disable SIP, and that's not a great idea. Rather than "reduced" motion, I'd really look forward to "no" motion. Like I had with i3wm... practically _instantaneous_ switch between spaces/virtual desktops.

kylehotchkiss 3y ago

I love the included high quality wallpapers. Apple's spent a lot of money filming these around the world and they serve as a nice blend of vibrant but without being so high contrast I can't see my icons.

pedalpete 3y ago

Does anyone else have no idea what macOS version is which? Which came first? Is there some hidden naming protocol that I just don't grasp? I've only started using a mac part-time while I've been developing an iOS app over the past few weeks, and I keep seeing different names for the OS version. I have no idea what version I'm on, or if Big Sur came before Sierra, or what. I know I could look it up, but it seems that in the name of good user-experience, I shouldn't need to. You'd think they'd at a minimum say "people aren't going to be able to figure out which is which, so let's go in alphabetical order with our naming.

brandall10 3y ago
It says the <Name> <Version> in the "About This Mac" Apple menu item. In this case, it will be Sonoma 14.0. Historically versioning is weird due to the integration of NextSTEP after Job's return to the company. First it was versioned up to 9, then the NextSTEP integration was 10, then subsequent major releases were minor bumps (ie 10.1, 10.2) as OSX was a brand unto itself until 11 which rebranded to MacOS and full versions were used again. So Sonoma is the 14th release from the NextSTEP integration. I think referring to them by names eased the confusion some. This gives a good rundown: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacOS_version_history https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacOS_version_history
- pedalpete 3y ago
  I went to the wikipedia page, which is kinda the point. No other OS requires you too look it up. Even WatchOS and iOS directly use version numbers. Saying it's due to NextStep integration sounds like a strange defense of this naming strategy (if that was your intention). They have version numbers, but they decide to use the "code name" as a product name.
  - Angostura 3y ago
    See also Windows Me, Windows XP, Windows Vista
  - akerl_ 3y ago

chatmasta 3y ago

I wish Apple would separate the updates of their bundleware from their OS. Some of the major updates have meaningful changes to the underlying OS (gatekeeper, SIP, etc.), but others - like this one - are primarily changes to frills like Messages, Notes, Safari and other Apple-native apps that I don't even use. I have no problem with Apple bundling these apps and making them work seamlessly together, and I don't even mind that they're all updated simultaneously (except for Safari, which I wish I could update independently without relying on the "Technology Preview" beta channel). But I do have a problem with upgrading my entire OS and disabling the new bloatware features just because I want to keep auto-updates enabled. I used to delay updating and then would end up way behind, which is why I enrolled in auto-update. But now it feels like I'm being held hostage to their update schedule. And for what benefit? There are hardly any useful OS-level changes in this release, but there are a bunch of new features I'll need to disable (while hoping the next auto-update doesn't break my external monitor), all powered by freshly written code contributing to an expanded attack surface. If I had my way, then I'd take the OS updates and skip all the apps. Keep the attack surface small while still meaningfully improving the core. I don't care about the rest.

aeyes 3y ago
You know what would be even better? If you could reliably uninstall all this junk or not even install it at all. Every time I hit some button on my keyboard and the Music app opens asking me to create an account I am reminded how hostile all commercial operating systems are.
- bombcar 3y ago
  Somehow on migrating to a new iPhone the music app decided it needed full notification permissions, apparently because a new Taylor swift album is of the same notification level as an incoming missile strike. At least it’s easy enough to turn off.
  - aeyes 3y ago
    At least they didn't "gift" you the album like they did with U2

josu 3y ago

>Reminders: Intelligent grocery lists in Reminders streamline weekly trips to the store by organizing lists into sections and arranging them horizontally using a new column view. Not much left to improve, I guess.

Reason077 3y ago

I guess I should finally upgrade to Ventura now that Sonoma is out.

WoodenChair 3y ago

We recently had a thread on HN about how bad iCloud Drive is. Well it struck again... I upgraded to Sonoma and then it promptly started re-syncing all few hundred thousand of my files. It's just not dependable. If I could do it all over again I would have invested in DropBox years ago... but I am so deeply in the Apple ecosystem including needing their Premier bundle for various family services it seems silly not to use this built-in service.

slmjkdbtl 3y ago

Still hoping for the death of .DS_Store every macOS release.

Aaron2222 3y ago
Yeah. I don't know why they didn't just move it to an extended attribute as part of the APFS transition.

slmjkdbtl 3y ago

Is there any update to Music.app? 50% of my work on a computer is managing my local music library, and the app is extremely buggy since the rewrite in Big Sur. Want to make sure it doesn't become more buggy in this release.

yinyang_in 3y ago
I thought it was just me, albums getting duplicated with few one song in one and most in other. What issues you face with music app ?
- slmjkdbtl 3y ago
  Yeah album duplication is the most annoying, also - Search sometimes doesn't work (can be solved by exiting all previous searches with the back button) - Tag editing sometimes doesn't work (can be solved by doing it again and again) - My status bar always say "syncing" when it's not
RockRobotRock 3y ago
Sorry if this isn't helpful, but you should consider a Subsonic compatible music manager. I use Navidrome hosted on a server that indexes my music on Dropbox.
RunSet 3y ago
I wish there was some way to entirely disable the macOS music player when it is not in use. I am referring in particular to the visual element outlined in the red rectangle in the image below. https://i.imgur.com/6uOjflM.jpg https://i.imgur.com/6uOjflM.jpg It is a small thing, but as annoying in its way to me as the blank space in the Windows 11 Start Menu that remains when the advertisements displayed there by default are disabled.

rayiner 3y ago

This is a year of work by a trillion dollar company? Steve Jobs would have kicked someone’s ass.

ribosometronome 3y ago
RTO productivity!
xyst 3y ago
Feels more like a bug fix release. Feels more snappier on M1. Plus they fixed the god awful auto switching for AirPods (phone to mac). Much more seamless
bombcar 3y ago
Steve Jobs released Snow Leopard. The ass kicking might have been to make something like Sonoma.

mukundesh 3y ago

Safari finally has the Chrome feature that I miss the most, ability to create separate app like experience for a particular website.

flumpcakes 3y ago

I'm very glad they've fixed the performance issue with stage manager. Before macOS Sonoma using mission control while having stage manager enabled would be very choppy. This seems to have been resolved and now I can finally use stage manager on macOS.

nunodonato 3y ago

they are really going hard on the saturated colors for everything these days

jd3 3y ago

Sonoma UI feels great. I'm also excited that they finally fixed Quartz Debug — the "Enable Vertical Sync" option finally works again when disabled. My mouse feels snappier and there's noticeably less delay when moving windows around.

nasretdinov 3y ago
You mean there is less delay when VSync is off, right?
- jd3 3y ago
  Yep!
Klonoar 3y ago
Is that meant to say “disable”?
- jd3 3y ago
  Yep, disabled.
sergiomattei 3y ago
Quartz Debug. That’s a name I haven’t heard in a while.
- jd3 3y ago
  It's still being updated and included in the "Additional Tools for Xcode 15"[0] and is the only way to disable vsync/"Beam Sync" at the os level using Apple tooling, afaik. Beamoff[1]/beamsync.py[2] are good 3rd part solutions, though. I use my m1 mbp in clamshell mode connected to a 75hz 1920x1080 ips all day every day, so until I can buy a monitor that supports adaptive sync, the reduction in latency that disabling vsync brings is worth it to me. [0]: https://developer.apple.com/download/all/?q=Additional%20Tools https://developer.apple.com/download/all/?q=Additional%20Too... [1]: https://github.com/JasF/beamoff https://github.com/JasF/beamoff [2]: https://gist.github.com/pudquick/2ab183707545413ae9c6#file-beamsync-py https://gist.github.com/pudquick/2ab183707545413ae9c6#file-b...

tempodox 3y ago

And remember, never install the .0 version of a macOS on a mission-critical machine, or at least do it on a separate volume.

tempodox 3y ago

It's quite telling that they had to invent “Game Mode”. The OS has become so sluggish that you can only run games with the humblest resource requirements.

wigster 3y ago

probably just me, but Sonoma sounds like a terrible name. I'm not familiar with the region in California (unlike its predecessors) and it just links to Carcinoma in my mind.

thadk 3y ago
The iconic Windows XP photograph was done in Sonoma County, so the focus on new overhead views of Sonoma County which "crest that hill" is probably part of their tongue and cheek goal here.

Lio 3y ago

First thing I notice is that the notch is now highly visible. Even with a dark wallpaper or no transparency everything is the wrong shade to hide it. I'll bet some MBA at Apple thinks it's really import to get that notch into everyone's face. :(

Geekette 3y ago

Not all can be upgraded to Sonoma. These pages help identify your Mac model and the newest compatible operating system it can be upgraded to: MacBook Pro https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201300 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201300 MacBook Air https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201862 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201862 iMac/iMac Pro https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201634 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201634 Mac Pro https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202888 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202888 Mac Studio https://www.apple.com/mac-studio/ https://www.apple.com/mac-studio/ Mac Mini https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201894 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201894