14 ms·

Suppressing negative thoughts may be good for mental health after all

169 points by kvee 3y ago

camdenlock 3y ago
Suppressing negative thoughts is a fool’s errand. You can notice them, and react differently to them, but you can’t literally control the thoughts that arise in your consciousness. You’ll work yourself to death trying.
- cwillu 3y ago
  “Following training – both immediately and after three months – participants reported that suppressed events were less vivid and less fearful. They also found themselves thinking about these events less.” “In general, people with worse mental health symptoms at the outset of the study improved more after suppression training, but only if they suppressed their fears. This finding directly contradicts the notion that suppression is a maladaptive coping process. Suppressing negative thoughts did not lead to a ‘rebound’, where a participant recalled these events more vividly. Only one person out of 120 showed higher detail recall for suppressed items post-training, and just six of the 61 participants that suppressed fears reported increased vividness for No-Imagine items post-training, but this was in line with the baseline rate of vividness increases that occurred for events that were not suppressed at all. “What we found runs counter to the accepted narrative,” said Professor Anderson. “Although more work will be needed to confirm the findings, it seems like it is possible and could even be potentially beneficial to actively suppress our fearful thoughts.””
- velcrovan 3y ago
  What you call “reacting differently to” negative thoughts is sort of what the article means by “suppressing”. A negative thought is often a right turn on a mental track that leads down a dark hole full of more negative thoughts. You may notice the initial one, but by choosing not to go down the hole, you have in a sense “suppressed” all the negative thoughts that were waiting there.
- kevin42 3y ago
  You can recognize them and tell yourself to not keep thinking about it. You may not be able to suppress the initial thoughts, but you can recognize your own distortions that negative thoughts lead to and not allow yourself to keep on the subject. It can help prevent future negative thoughts. It takes some work, but it's one of the strategies that cognitive behavioral therapy teaches you, and it really helps a lot of people!
- NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
  Yes, you can achieve mastery over your train of thought. I do not like the article's use of "suppress" as it is an active and forceful word, that connotes some sort of combat or struggle over the thoughts. It's the struggle that will get you in trouble. It also depends on the nature of the thoughts and our relationship to them. Sometimes we need to work through negative events, process them, deal with them. This study appeared to focus on future imagined events, which are clearly different, and many of us fall victim to catastrophizing, ruminating, and worrying about things that may never happen, or things over which we have no control. Practicing centering prayer, or mindfulness meditation, it is a discipline to master our thoughts and not allow them to dominate us. Rather than "suppressing" negative thoughts, they can just be neutrally acknowledged, and released without engaging them. In fact, all manner of thoughts and ideas can be treated this way during a meditation, and we will find that nothing in our mundane lives is so important or devastating that it could take the place of God. But yes, you can get to a certain age, and with a lack of developed discipline, you will feel trapped and powerless to "control" those thoughts, and the first attempts will feel futile. But it's certainly possible and achievable.
meitham 3y ago
Old school philosophy and religions are right once again!
- RelativeDelta 3y ago
  Almost like these arose as functional elements of society across time because they assisted those who followed them in outlasting their competitors. Weird.
  - jimkleiber 3y ago
    There's a book called Why We Need Religion[0] and I believe the main premise is that religions have practices and beliefs that help us process emotions. [0]: https://bookshop.org/p/books/why-we-need-religion-stephen-t-asma/7312344 https://bookshop.org/p/books/why-we-need-religion-stephen-t-...
    - yomly 3y ago
      I am personally atheist/apathetic. The closest thing you could get me to profess a religious fervour to is exercise (or martial arts) and mother nature. That said, I am a huge proponent of religion and can see how it is so important to people like my mother. She doesn't preach or judge but I can see how faith anchors her. It gives her answers and an unyielding optimism in the face of difficulty, and I can tell you as someone who has clawed her way through a poverty most people in this world will only ever read about, she has known what difficulty can be. Faith keeps her positive and kind and generous. She finds it in herself to let go of anger and to forgive thanks to her belief in God. So you're bang on the mark - my personal observations agree that religion helps us process emotions. Seen through the lens of a social technology, we've replaced religion with consumerism and individualism, and social media has encouraged unchecked mammon. And so we're having to relearn everything old as new again. Confession and grace are parts of the toolkit in therapy. Breathing techniques from yoga, wim hof and meditation are doing the rounds. The presence of song and chanting in many religions seems like a decent overlap... Then at times of the highest reported rates of loneliness, especially amongst the young, what did religion give us - a local community. Don't get me wrong, there was a lot of bad with religion but modern faith in places like the UK or the Nordics seems to be a net benefit IMO...
cale 3y ago
Serenity now
whatyesaid 3y ago
For ethical reasons, no participant was given a negative event to imagine, but only positive or neutral ones. 120 people and three months and during COVID. Just because it's from Cambridge don't assume credibility.
- lifechoseme123 3y ago
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- deleted 3y ago
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- toasted-subs 3y ago
  I think most people in psychiatry don't want to admit the patients are typically victims and society has to be the one to change. In my opinion most psychological techniques induce the behaviors they are attempting to suppress effectively bullying the people who are seeking help.
  - NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
    It is no coincidence that many psychotropic drugs induce the symptoms that they purport to treat.
  - josephg 3y ago
    Have you ever been to a good psych? Like in other professions, maybe 80% of clinical psychiatrists are low key bad at their job. And I’m sorry for you if you feel like you were bullied by a bad psych. I think thats probably way more common than we’d want to admit. I promise you, good sessions just aren’t like that. My psych is amazing. We don’t talk about how “society has to change” because the pain I’ve experienced isn’t really about society any more. And the point of sessions isn’t to fix society, it’s to help me (the patient) heal and grow. I’ve never felt bullied by her - not for a second. I’m sorry if you haven’t had a good therapist. As I say, maybe 80% of psychs are flushable. But some people are genuinely amazing and can help a great deal. They’ve certainly helped me.
  - 3y ago
jimkleiber 3y ago
I wonder if using the technique people succeeded in suppressing "negative" emotions but also in suppressing "positive" emotions. In other words, did they just feel less overall? More numb? Or did they somehow feel less "negative" emotions and the same or more "positive" emotions? I would hypothesize that it made people feel less overall, more numb, or more indifferent, and for someone feeling a lot of anxiety or fear, I think feeling less overall might feel good. If that's the mechanism, I don't know how adaptive that is in the medium- to long-term.
- binary132 3y ago
  I generally think about emotions and thoughts as a function of neurochemical pathways. We know those are subject to reinforcement. That clearly implies that if you want to feel and think better, you should encourage and intentionally practice good thoughts and emotions and inhibit / lay off the bad ones.
wetpaws 3y ago
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corethree 3y ago
This has been known among psychologist for awhile now. In fact someone who is too honest, someone who see's the truth of the world is more likely to be clinically depressed. https://radiolab.org/podcast/91618-lying-to-ourselves https://radiolab.org/podcast/91618-lying-to-ourselves This podcast from radiolab really changed my perspective on the concept. Pretty much if you're not depressed, most likely some aspect of you is delusional. I would say people on HN are especially prone to lying to themselves. They lie to themselves about how intelligent they are. Programming is tied to intelligence and people need to think they're smart in order to maintain pride. Religion is easy to laugh off as irrational for HNers because religion isn't a big part of their lives. Intelligence and programming is a big part of their lives and that's where all the lies live, in something you take pride in. Additionally people on HN think they're more rational then normal... they think they don't fall into the trap of lying to themselves. I hate to tell you this, but that's just another lie you all tell yourselves.
- 99_00 3y ago
  You seem to be suggesting that humans are capable of perceive objective truth for non trivial things. I say that we aren't. And given that, you are better off believing the lie that helps you or makes you feel good instead of the one that hurts you, assuming both have the same predictive power.
  - jimkleiber 3y ago
    I tell people "I don't know if your intentions are good or bad and I may never know. If I believe they're bad, I feel bad. If I believe they're good, I feel good. So I choose to believe they're good." So I appreciate your perspective as I think it aligns with mine.
  - corethree 3y ago
    > You seem to be suggesting that humans are capable of perceive objective truth for non trivial things. I believe that for situations where a single human has enough information and ability to ascertain the truth, most humans deliberately will not make a beeline for the truth. They sort of veer off to the side towards a half truth that better suits their situation. None of this is a conscious choice though. Self deception is completely orthogonal to our ability to ascertain the actual truth. As I said even if we were magically gifted this ability, most choose not to use that ability. Of course this quality lives on a gradient, some people are really good at self deception, others are really bad at it.
p-e-w 3y ago
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memchr 3y ago
This is fine
babsaroo 3y ago
Looking into the void is the only solution. If you aren't fixed, look deeper. You will find it.
99_00 3y ago
>“We’re all familiar with the Freudian idea that if we suppress our feelings or thoughts, then these thoughts remain in our unconscious, influencing our behaviour and wellbeing perniciously,” The article conflates thoughts and feeling. Thoughts and emotions are not the same. Reducing negative thoughts is standard practice. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_negative_thoughts https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_negative_thoughts I'm not aware of any professional who recommends suppressing negative emotions.
cf141q5325 3y ago
When ever this notion comes up i cant help but wonder how good crashing and burning thanks to ignoring reality is for your mental health. Just because stuff isnt nice doesnt mean its safe to ignore. Its worth mentioning that dealing with negative thoughts and experiences is part of how we grow as people. Its why Bambis mother got shot in a Disney movie. Because sooner or later, kids have to deal with harsh stuff. Unfortunately adults do too. Their example, a parent with covid in a hospital, is a good one. This is serious stuff you need to come to terms with. If that seems overly harsh or depressing, i find Stanley Kubricks words about the indifference of the universe quite helpful. (Starting from "If life is so purposeless, do you feel it’s worth living?") https://www.themarginalian.org/2012/07/26/stanley-kubrick-playboy-interview/ https://www.themarginalian.org/2012/07/26/stanley-kubrick-pl... In the end all we can do is decide how we want to deal with reality. Unless we want to later deal with the consequences of not having done so.
- Aloha 3y ago
  You don't need to dwell on it either - and that's the issue, most people dwell on it, because they're taught that all feelings are good and valid, and should be explored, my own experience says the opposite, not all feelings deserve exploration, and too much navel gazing is bad for ones mental health.
  - cf141q5325 3y ago
    I dont disagree. But there is a big difference between not getting attached and pulled around by your negative thoughts and just ignoring them. The way out is agency over how you deal with reality, not better blindfolds in the short term.
  - kykeonaut 3y ago
    However, not being able to explore such feelings ends up making you an unsympathetic person, as you cannot bare these feelings with others. Another argument is that you are denying yourself of the experience of being human. These feelings exist for a reason, just as physical pain exists for a reason. You wouldn't hurt yourself on purpose (or maybe you do c;), but physical pain helps you stay safe. I feel this is the same purpose of negative feelings. Finally, I have found out that suppressing these feelings does not allow you to fully process and heal from the events that trigger them.
Aloha 3y ago
Too much navel gazing being bad, is I think almost obvious enough to not require study. I just wished more people practiced it.
- cf141q5325 3y ago
  Thats an unfair simplification the article doesnt allow for. There is no reason to throw out introspection with not engaging with toxic thought patterns. Especially as a lack of the former often leads to a helplessness regarding the later.
gonzo41 3y ago
It's all about Recency and Frequency. Reliving terrible events to adjust to terrible events is just re traumatizing. Putting distance between your current self and a trauma just seems smart.
deleted 3y ago
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captainbland 3y ago
I suppose it wouldn't be that surprising. Mindfulness for instance teaches you to "let go" of thoughts - which is really just a gentle form of suppression. CBT encourages you to redirect existing negative thoughts in a positive/constructive direction - ultimately steering you away from or undermining the original negative thought - but does not encourage you to do a deep dive on it. Not to mention that Freud was a quack who was more prone to speculation than to science, so if traditional psychotherapy is based on his work then it is likely built on sand. Taken to the opposite extreme, I think it's in some sense obvious that some degree of suppression is actually good for you, precisely because ruminating for long periods of time is clearly bad for you. From a neurological point of view, why should we see reiterating negative thoughts as any different from reinforcement learning? If we revisit these negative topics, are we not strengthening their presence in our minds? That said this study does not sound like it proves that suppressing negative thoughts works over a long period of time. The original theory posits that these suppressed thoughts might cause problems even years later when the latest this was followed up was a period of three months. So grains of salt etc.
- jongjong 3y ago
  The trouble with suppressing negative thoughts in the long run is that, eventually, reality may force you to confront them all at once and under far more difficult conditions. I'm a strong believer that you have to confront negative thoughts and resolve underlying issues as soon as they arise and not neglect them and tell yourself that everything is going to be OK. It's not going to be OK. Murphy's law; what can go wrong WILL go wrong. This has been shown to me over and over again. You cannot leave anything to chance. I'd rather have a few negative thoughts from time to time and resolve them as they come than fool myself into thinking that I'm living in la-la land and then after a few years find out that it has become hell on earth due to my neglect. It's like a garden; you need to maintain it. If you ignore the weeds, they'll eventually take over your garden. You can tell yourself that the weeds add charm and make your garden look more natural; that you're going for a "wild tropical look" or whatever, all part of the plan, but with that attitude, you're bound to fail. You'll just keep getting more of whatever it is that you neglect until it becomes unbearable.
leemailll 3y ago
See, daydreaming helps
dguest 3y ago
Why are we still talking about Freud? Some researchers studied how to be happy. Unsurprisingly they also found no support for Freudian ideas that were popular 30 years ago. The Cambridge University PR office still leads by stating Freudian ideas as the "accepted narrative". Maybe they are? But this is the least novel result of the study, and yet it's in the headline. Obviously we shouldn't shoot the messenger: science writers are just going for clicks like most of the internet. But wow, Freud dug us quite a deep hole to climb out of.
- scns 3y ago
  It is so easy being smarter than Plato/Kant/Freud. You just need to be born later. Still they are a valuable part of the evolution of the human mind IMHO. Some of his thoughts still make sense, even if they are not falsifiable.
- barrysteve 3y ago
  Because Freud fills his niche perfectly. People who want to refer to his ideas, his character, his writing, can do so.. What bothers me deeply is that all the first-order/top-level work was done in the past and we're not really exploring that space anymore. The science may disprove Freud, and unfortunately we have still not progressed past his niche and character as an intro to psychology. Freud didn't dig a hole, he left a high quality signpost to the future. We need a better signpost but people are using Freud 'cause recent second-order psych and statistics is sexier.
- derbOac 3y ago
  Maybe there's a generic term for this (objects or figures held up for attack as a way of signaling group membership), but in the behavioral sciences and psychiatry there's a lot of strawman figures or ideas that get held up by authors as an object of derision, as a way for the authors to assert being part of "real science". This takes a lot of forms, but Freud is one of these figures. Others involve references to mind-body dualism ("this is a brain-based phenomenon, not a psychological one", which is ironic in a lot of ways), there a lot of others. The behavioral sciences often are ridiculed by other sciences, sometimes rightly so, but sometimes by people who are unaware of the complexities involved in certain topics, or who are otherwise just being narcissistic bullies; so people trying in good faith to do research sometimes use targeting figures like Freud to signal their "science credentials." This case leaves me scratching my head a bit because the idea of suppressing negative thoughts sometimes being a bad thing isn't just a Freudian idea (what Freud was actually saying, and how different modern theories are from those of Freud, is a whole topic onto itself). CBT, which is often held up as some kind of gold standard of empirically supported therapy, has this idea of a hierarchy of beliefs, some a person might be aware of, and others of which the person only holds implicitly. These "core beliefs" go unaddressed, sometimes through active avoidance, which leads to problems (or so the theory goes). Or from a purely behavioral perspective, someone has some fear that leads to elaborate avoidance behaviors, which cause impairments — the treatment being exposure to the feared stimulus. The framing of this is odd because I don't think any good therapist would say that avoiding negative thoughts is always good or always bad. It depends on the situation. Sometimes someone needs to just shift attention from unproductive rumination. But sometimes people do have a lot of issues that go unaddressed, and that avoidance becomes unhealthy because it leaves a whole belief system or set of interpersonal problems unresolved, or snowballs out of control. None of this is necessarily Freudian or not Freudian, and framing it as such says more about the concerns of the authors than anything about the theories used in modern therapy or the implications of the study results.
aszantu 3y ago
Working through multiple traumata for a few years now. I've found that if you work through a negative thought long enough, it will eventually reveal its purpose. I've started journaling in 2016 or so, so it takes a long time, since I didn't have coaching or anything. Internal dialog goes like this: - feeling numb and like dieing ~ what's the issue? - I don't work, feeling guilty over not working, I'd wish they'd fire me over that ~ That true? - I want to get fired so my destiny comes true again, ima fckup, looser ~ you're not though (examples of achievements) - reality fcks with my belief... (some silence, processing, giving it time) ... so, I'm not a fckup? ~ No - That feels ... hopeful? (haven't felt that in a very long time) ~ weird, hm? - why do I believe this? (ima fckup) ~ Feels safer that way, others can't hurt you if you do it first and harder. Nobody can hurt you like you do... (mix of loving feelings follows) I've done byron katie's work for a while, and some of her voice was internalized (listened to her youtube dialogues for 2-3 weeks), that might be, where the nice questioning voice must have come from.
- soared 3y ago
  That may work for you, but most of my negative thoughts don’t have a purpose. They exist because I forgot to eat, exercise, or be social.
  - aszantu 3y ago
    that as well, thanks for adding that. Wetware has to be served first.
jl6 3y ago
Where does suppressing negative thoughts end, and reality denial begin? There are many unpleasant realities that we must learn to cope with that cannot just be ignored or forgotten. Credit card debt is a source of negative thoughts for many - and not just low-level grumbles, but genuinely distressing anxiety. People kill themselves over their financial difficulties. But having a debt is definitely not something we should encourage people to suppress, because it gets worse if left unattended. It’s not just mundane realities like debt that are potentially dangerous if ignored. Should you try to suppress negative thoughts about pain, or worries about a growth on your skin, instead of seeking medical treatment? What should we do with delusional or criminal people who believe something about themselves that is plainly wrong? Should a kleptomaniac seek to affirm their behavior, or should they confront themselves? How can we tell the difference between the thoughts that are safe and healthy to ignore, and those upon which light should be shone?
- m463 3y ago
  > Where does suppressing negative thoughts end, and reality denial begin? Personally I think that juncture is where procrastination lives.
  - oysterpingu 3y ago
    Could you elaborate?
- mdp2021 3y ago
  > How can we tell the difference If you have to act upon it, think about it - in a strategic modality; if running your mind about it is just wasting your energies, don't.
- starluz 3y ago
  That’s where your human skill for critical thinking must come into play. Debt is a tangible issue sort of negative thoughts- they are promoting you to resolve something with real consequences. Negative thoughts about a friend slighting you is useless after the first time. If the action repeats make some decisions but don’t dwell in that spiral It doesn’t have to be prescriptive it’s subjective and we really need to understand nuance.
jokoon 3y ago
The most important to learn is to vigilant about passing and automatic thoughts. When you're conscious about them, it helps a lot.
wowgoldfarmer 3y ago
If you are present and highly aware you never need to suppress anything ever again. One needs to meditate. Learn to meditate. Stop relying in science for answers
mdp2021 3y ago
Somehow relevant piece of art, .gif animation, from Portuguese artist André Carrilho. Title: Bad memories https://cdn.myportfolio.com/453a92f80b154a9480bc9e2ebcb57c99/7119fdb4-efbb-4e69-9c2d-d0d18f8757f2_rw_600.gif?h=0e08f0ebf978dadd2acb2c7f69ef3eeb https://cdn.myportfolio.com/453a92f80b154a9480bc9e2ebcb57c99...
- kristjank 3y ago
  That's a great piece of art, but maybe a content warning for gore-y content would be in order.
  - mdp2021 3y ago
    Did not perceive it as such. It is metaphorical. And it is an animated illustration (as opposed to realistic depiction). Actually, the first reference is the scan (the slices are MRI), so an image of analysis. Then, the slicer can suggest removal (of the «bad memories»). If anybody perceived it as sensational, they should go beyond the impact and perceive it as operational, or as sympathetical (your fellow man is performing his burden - where a bit of apprehension for the in-a-perspective "painful" act is shared experience).
    - rendx 3y ago
      I would definitely categorize it as "gory". I can almost "feel" the slicing, the moment I look at it. It's not like I can control my perception like you say, even if I tried: the interpretation and emotional/body reaction happens before that. I can intellectually ADD information, but by that not really resolve what the "emotional brain" does.
      - mdp2021 3y ago
        > I can almost "feel" ... the moment I look at it That should not happen. It is as if you could feel what is happening inside "Tom and Jerry" and "Road Runner". Certainly Hanna, Barbera, Jones and Maltese did not even remotely mean to induce sensational sympathy. Similarly, Carrilho is expressing concepts through visual art, with the usual mechanism of "subject and object" - detached, it is implied. Allow me to suggest: you may have acquired that "open channel allowing influence" as a habit, like a posture. It should slowly recede through the constant conscience that the spectator is detached and the sensational influence is an improper disposition that must be (naturally, automatically - it will gradually come with the conscience) corrected.
danw1979 3y ago
For a few years after the death of my baby daughter, I’d relive the events of that day pretty regularly, looking for some kind of meaning, pattern, lesson to be learned maybe. I’d also continually wonder what she’d be like now she was 3, 4 years old, etc. This was making me incredibly sad. Eventually, I just had to forget that day, forget her, stop thinking about what her life would have been like, and get on with enjoying the here and now, with my other children. Even though it would be her 10th birthday next week, I haven’t thought much about her in the run up to this. Dwelling on past trauma didn’t work for me. YMMV.
- late25 3y ago
  Heartbreaking. I know it means nothing but my heart goes out to you. Wishing you the best.
- heckelson 3y ago
  I have nothing constructive to add to your comment, but I was quite moved by it. I'm not a parent (yet?) so I can only begin to imagine what you must have gone through, however I hope you're in a better place now.
- johnchristopher 3y ago
  Yes, it's incredibly cruel when we realize that sometimes forgetting or not keeping them alive in our thoughts is the only way to keep on living without being burdened by the sadness of what may or should have been.
- 93po 3y ago
  Focusing on present moment is a very powerful tool and I’m glad you discovered it. Your daughter would want you to be happy. Best wishes to you and your family.
- Balgair 3y ago
  I am so sorry for your loss. I am glad to hear you are healing in your own way though. I'll make sure to hug my own extra hard tonight.
samsquire 3y ago
I think it's really important to separate and discern "light" and "darkness" in your mind and actions, word and deed. I think mental health, negative thoughts is driven by your understanding of truth If you think the truth is dark then you are looking at darkness and attributing it to truth or the light, which is a mistaken identity. Calling light (the truth) the darkness is an error. Calling darkness the truth is an error. I believe the truth is good. You should pick the right "duality" as your foundational truth, since it's your foundations of whether or not you're in darkness or light. If it's not good, it's not true reality but a manifestation of darkness. Don't look at darkness and call it the truth. Truth is light, truth is a good thing. Separate the light from the darkness. Bad things going on is a manifestation of darkness, not the truth of what is the foundation nature of everything (which I think is light, good). Ground yourself in light, for that's what the universe is powered by. (Why would you pick the worse option if light is the truth why would you pick otherwise?) For people who believe in a God of love and arbiter of what is true, the truth is light and positive. The mechanism of the universe, love, kindness, compassion, mercy, grace, gravity, words, law, legality, mathematics, quantum effects, physics, the mysteries and who decides upon their workings. Good vs Evil. Light vs darkness. True vs False It's like being blamed for something you didn't do. Truth cannot be sullied by darkness. If you keep "the truth is good" as your hope and faith = "light/good is what is is and are", then the darkness cannot touch you.
orwin 3y ago
The idea of suppressed/repressed thoughts and feelings came from psychoanalysis, it doesn't surprise me that like most ideas of that pseudoscience, it's a bad one. I think lithotherapy might be less toxic.
- NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
  What I found out in my discovery of Complex PTSD is the concept of the emotional flashback. That is, an event or situation triggers distant memories, and we relive it through emotions rather than conscious thought. This explains preverbal childhood traumas, and repeated traumas that do not resolve to a single memory or experience. They built up over time and they consistently elicited in us negative emotions and the associated physiological discomfort. It gets to a point where it becomes irrational, that we are afraid of our own shadows because it is so uncomfortable for us to relive traumas and re-experience emotions, but they are nonverbal, nonvisual, and nonspecific, so we weren't sure why we were being triggered in the first place. I have missing memories. I can remember significant events in my childhood and they are mostly traumatic. Sometimes, I have attempted to explore the good times and find pleasurable memories. They are there, but they're overwhelmed by the ones that wounded me. Sometimes I'm told about my past by a third party, often by my primary abuser, who has an outstanding memory. I think that soon I should try to explore those good memories again. I wish I had a therapist to guide me.
barrysteve 3y ago
I really disagree with this concept of "thoughts" being a free-floating occurence that springs on you like a burgular in the night. Obviously thoughts exist and understanding why and how thoughts exist is yet to be known. But don't we have centuries of philosophers writing about what happens if you follow those thoughts... IF I had a thought about the boringness of "seeing the same damn thing again and again", that's not an Event in my mind that needs a special verb attached to it. I just know those thoughts occur and Schopenhauer knows better than I do, what life is like if you follow and grow that particular thought. I really wonder how we're supposed to survive the experiences of pleasure and pain, positive/negative, happy/sad, whatever... without a philosophy to validate our experiences. People can think negatively (or positively) all they want, in my view, as long as it's connected to their philosophy managing their experiences. The problems occur when you let the experiences of feeings/emotions reinforce arbitrary thoughts, and cloud/submerge/drown the ability to rationalize your way out of trouble.
karaterobot 3y ago
> “What we found runs counter to the accepted narrative,” said Professor Anderson. “Although more work will be needed to confirm the findings, it seems like it is possible and could even be potentially beneficial to actively suppress our fearful thoughts.” I don't know if this study convinces me, but my own experience sure does. I've lived both ways, there's no question in my mind what works better for me. The jokey, modern trope is the guy who ignores his feelings and then blows up later. I found instead that negative feelings tend to go away if you focus on other things, but if you focus on bad thoughts, they just last longer and sometimes grow into fixations.
carvink 3y ago
The WHO has a guide for "unhooking from difficult thoughts and feelings". At one point it says "You cannot stop these thoughts from arising. They are normal and natural. But it is not so helpful to get hooked by them." and then goes on to explain some simple practices to help unhook. https://www.who.int/publications/i/item/9789240003927 https://www.who.int/publications/i/item/9789240003927 Here's more detail about how it was tested. https://www.psychologicalscience.org/news/releases/2022-april-trauma-intervention-ukraine.html https://www.psychologicalscience.org/news/releases/2022-apri...
takinola 3y ago
Weirdly, the exact opposite works for me. As someone recently dealing with a measure of anxiety, I found that a 3 step process has helped remove the worst of it. 1. Examine the feeling - Pay attention to the thoughts causing the anxiety. What exactly about it is disturbing? What outcomes are you afraid is going to happen. Think about it like an interesting topic you are hearing about. What questions would you ask? 2. Explore the feeling - Articulate how it makes you feel. Where in your body are you experiencing this feeling? Is your mind racing, your chest tightening, stomach churning? Notice each feeling and where it is happening. 3. Exaggerate the feeling - Take the anxiety causing thought and turn it up to 11. If you are feeling anxious about your job, imagine you not only get fired but the company takes out an ad in the NY times letting everyone in the industry know not to hire you again. If you're anxious about not saving enough, imagine you go bankrupt and have to live in a cardboard box by the street. Don't just imagine the worst case scenario, imagine the nuclear + ebola scenario. After making a habit of this, I found that my reaction to these thoughts is not as emotionally severe. I don't know exactly why it works but my guess is that when your mental response to stress is disproportionate to the stimuli, the process of examining the thoughts acts as a way of desensitizing the mind to the stimulus whilst keeping some emotional distance from them. The act of exaggeration adds some comic relief to the process and, I find, actually makes me (slightly) look forward to the anxious thoughts ("Ooh, I wonder what crazy scenario I am going to come up with for this one") and replaces the negative feeling (fear, churning) with a positive one (curiosity, excitement).
mlsmith 3y ago
I heard a saying once, something like, "thinking too much about the past causes depression and thinking too much about the future causes anxiety." In other words stay in the present as much as possible and fend off invasive thoughts with distractions, hobbies, and helping others.
sacrosancty 3y ago
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Khelavaster 3y ago
Dehumanizing people mentally instead of thinking negative thoughts about them goes further!

169 points by kvee 3y ago

Suppressing negative thoughts is a fool’s errand. You can notice them, and react differently to them, but you can’t literally control the thoughts that arise in your consciousness. You’ll work yourself to death trying.

cwillu 3y ago
“Following training – both immediately and after three months – participants reported that suppressed events were less vivid and less fearful. They also found themselves thinking about these events less.” “In general, people with worse mental health symptoms at the outset of the study improved more after suppression training, but only if they suppressed their fears. This finding directly contradicts the notion that suppression is a maladaptive coping process. Suppressing negative thoughts did not lead to a ‘rebound’, where a participant recalled these events more vividly. Only one person out of 120 showed higher detail recall for suppressed items post-training, and just six of the 61 participants that suppressed fears reported increased vividness for No-Imagine items post-training, but this was in line with the baseline rate of vividness increases that occurred for events that were not suppressed at all. “What we found runs counter to the accepted narrative,” said Professor Anderson. “Although more work will be needed to confirm the findings, it seems like it is possible and could even be potentially beneficial to actively suppress our fearful thoughts.””
velcrovan 3y ago
What you call “reacting differently to” negative thoughts is sort of what the article means by “suppressing”. A negative thought is often a right turn on a mental track that leads down a dark hole full of more negative thoughts. You may notice the initial one, but by choosing not to go down the hole, you have in a sense “suppressed” all the negative thoughts that were waiting there.
kevin42 3y ago
You can recognize them and tell yourself to not keep thinking about it. You may not be able to suppress the initial thoughts, but you can recognize your own distortions that negative thoughts lead to and not allow yourself to keep on the subject. It can help prevent future negative thoughts. It takes some work, but it's one of the strategies that cognitive behavioral therapy teaches you, and it really helps a lot of people!
NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
Yes, you can achieve mastery over your train of thought. I do not like the article's use of "suppress" as it is an active and forceful word, that connotes some sort of combat or struggle over the thoughts. It's the struggle that will get you in trouble. It also depends on the nature of the thoughts and our relationship to them. Sometimes we need to work through negative events, process them, deal with them. This study appeared to focus on future imagined events, which are clearly different, and many of us fall victim to catastrophizing, ruminating, and worrying about things that may never happen, or things over which we have no control. Practicing centering prayer, or mindfulness meditation, it is a discipline to master our thoughts and not allow them to dominate us. Rather than "suppressing" negative thoughts, they can just be neutrally acknowledged, and released without engaging them. In fact, all manner of thoughts and ideas can be treated this way during a meditation, and we will find that nothing in our mundane lives is so important or devastating that it could take the place of God. But yes, you can get to a certain age, and with a lack of developed discipline, you will feel trapped and powerless to "control" those thoughts, and the first attempts will feel futile. But it's certainly possible and achievable.

meitham 3y ago

Old school philosophy and religions are right once again!

RelativeDelta 3y ago
Almost like these arose as functional elements of society across time because they assisted those who followed them in outlasting their competitors. Weird.
- jimkleiber 3y ago
  There's a book called Why We Need Religion[0] and I believe the main premise is that religions have practices and beliefs that help us process emotions. [0]: https://bookshop.org/p/books/why-we-need-religion-stephen-t-asma/7312344 https://bookshop.org/p/books/why-we-need-religion-stephen-t-...
  - yomly 3y ago
    I am personally atheist/apathetic. The closest thing you could get me to profess a religious fervour to is exercise (or martial arts) and mother nature. That said, I am a huge proponent of religion and can see how it is so important to people like my mother. She doesn't preach or judge but I can see how faith anchors her. It gives her answers and an unyielding optimism in the face of difficulty, and I can tell you as someone who has clawed her way through a poverty most people in this world will only ever read about, she has known what difficulty can be. Faith keeps her positive and kind and generous. She finds it in herself to let go of anger and to forgive thanks to her belief in God. So you're bang on the mark - my personal observations agree that religion helps us process emotions. Seen through the lens of a social technology, we've replaced religion with consumerism and individualism, and social media has encouraged unchecked mammon. And so we're having to relearn everything old as new again. Confession and grace are parts of the toolkit in therapy. Breathing techniques from yoga, wim hof and meditation are doing the rounds. The presence of song and chanting in many religions seems like a decent overlap... Then at times of the highest reported rates of loneliness, especially amongst the young, what did religion give us - a local community. Don't get me wrong, there was a lot of bad with religion but modern faith in places like the UK or the Nordics seems to be a net benefit IMO...

cale 3y ago

Serenity now

whatyesaid 3y ago

For ethical reasons, no participant was given a negative event to imagine, but only positive or neutral ones. 120 people and three months and during COVID. Just because it's from Cambridge don't assume credibility.

lifechoseme123 3y ago
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toasted-subs 3y ago
I think most people in psychiatry don't want to admit the patients are typically victims and society has to be the one to change. In my opinion most psychological techniques induce the behaviors they are attempting to suppress effectively bullying the people who are seeking help.
- NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
  It is no coincidence that many psychotropic drugs induce the symptoms that they purport to treat.
- josephg 3y ago
  Have you ever been to a good psych? Like in other professions, maybe 80% of clinical psychiatrists are low key bad at their job. And I’m sorry for you if you feel like you were bullied by a bad psych. I think thats probably way more common than we’d want to admit. I promise you, good sessions just aren’t like that. My psych is amazing. We don’t talk about how “society has to change” because the pain I’ve experienced isn’t really about society any more. And the point of sessions isn’t to fix society, it’s to help me (the patient) heal and grow. I’ve never felt bullied by her - not for a second. I’m sorry if you haven’t had a good therapist. As I say, maybe 80% of psychs are flushable. But some people are genuinely amazing and can help a great deal. They’ve certainly helped me.
- 3y ago

jimkleiber 3y ago

I wonder if using the technique people succeeded in suppressing "negative" emotions but also in suppressing "positive" emotions. In other words, did they just feel less overall? More numb? Or did they somehow feel less "negative" emotions and the same or more "positive" emotions? I would hypothesize that it made people feel less overall, more numb, or more indifferent, and for someone feeling a lot of anxiety or fear, I think feeling less overall might feel good. If that's the mechanism, I don't know how adaptive that is in the medium- to long-term.

binary132 3y ago
I generally think about emotions and thoughts as a function of neurochemical pathways. We know those are subject to reinforcement. That clearly implies that if you want to feel and think better, you should encourage and intentionally practice good thoughts and emotions and inhibit / lay off the bad ones.

wetpaws 3y ago

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corethree 3y ago

This has been known among psychologist for awhile now. In fact someone who is too honest, someone who see's the truth of the world is more likely to be clinically depressed. https://radiolab.org/podcast/91618-lying-to-ourselves https://radiolab.org/podcast/91618-lying-to-ourselves This podcast from radiolab really changed my perspective on the concept. Pretty much if you're not depressed, most likely some aspect of you is delusional. I would say people on HN are especially prone to lying to themselves. They lie to themselves about how intelligent they are. Programming is tied to intelligence and people need to think they're smart in order to maintain pride. Religion is easy to laugh off as irrational for HNers because religion isn't a big part of their lives. Intelligence and programming is a big part of their lives and that's where all the lies live, in something you take pride in. Additionally people on HN think they're more rational then normal... they think they don't fall into the trap of lying to themselves. I hate to tell you this, but that's just another lie you all tell yourselves.

99_00 3y ago
You seem to be suggesting that humans are capable of perceive objective truth for non trivial things. I say that we aren't. And given that, you are better off believing the lie that helps you or makes you feel good instead of the one that hurts you, assuming both have the same predictive power.
- jimkleiber 3y ago
  I tell people "I don't know if your intentions are good or bad and I may never know. If I believe they're bad, I feel bad. If I believe they're good, I feel good. So I choose to believe they're good." So I appreciate your perspective as I think it aligns with mine.
- corethree 3y ago
  > You seem to be suggesting that humans are capable of perceive objective truth for non trivial things. I believe that for situations where a single human has enough information and ability to ascertain the truth, most humans deliberately will not make a beeline for the truth. They sort of veer off to the side towards a half truth that better suits their situation. None of this is a conscious choice though. Self deception is completely orthogonal to our ability to ascertain the actual truth. As I said even if we were magically gifted this ability, most choose not to use that ability. Of course this quality lives on a gradient, some people are really good at self deception, others are really bad at it.

p-e-w 3y ago

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memchr 3y ago

This is fine

babsaroo 3y ago

Looking into the void is the only solution. If you aren't fixed, look deeper. You will find it.

99_00 3y ago

>“We’re all familiar with the Freudian idea that if we suppress our feelings or thoughts, then these thoughts remain in our unconscious, influencing our behaviour and wellbeing perniciously,” The article conflates thoughts and feeling. Thoughts and emotions are not the same. Reducing negative thoughts is standard practice. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_negative_thoughts https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_negative_thoughts I'm not aware of any professional who recommends suppressing negative emotions.

cf141q5325 3y ago

When ever this notion comes up i cant help but wonder how good crashing and burning thanks to ignoring reality is for your mental health. Just because stuff isnt nice doesnt mean its safe to ignore. Its worth mentioning that dealing with negative thoughts and experiences is part of how we grow as people. Its why Bambis mother got shot in a Disney movie. Because sooner or later, kids have to deal with harsh stuff. Unfortunately adults do too. Their example, a parent with covid in a hospital, is a good one. This is serious stuff you need to come to terms with. If that seems overly harsh or depressing, i find Stanley Kubricks words about the indifference of the universe quite helpful. (Starting from "If life is so purposeless, do you feel it’s worth living?") https://www.themarginalian.org/2012/07/26/stanley-kubrick-playboy-interview/ https://www.themarginalian.org/2012/07/26/stanley-kubrick-pl... In the end all we can do is decide how we want to deal with reality. Unless we want to later deal with the consequences of not having done so.

Aloha 3y ago
You don't need to dwell on it either - and that's the issue, most people dwell on it, because they're taught that all feelings are good and valid, and should be explored, my own experience says the opposite, not all feelings deserve exploration, and too much navel gazing is bad for ones mental health.
- cf141q5325 3y ago
  I dont disagree. But there is a big difference between not getting attached and pulled around by your negative thoughts and just ignoring them. The way out is agency over how you deal with reality, not better blindfolds in the short term.
- kykeonaut 3y ago
  However, not being able to explore such feelings ends up making you an unsympathetic person, as you cannot bare these feelings with others. Another argument is that you are denying yourself of the experience of being human. These feelings exist for a reason, just as physical pain exists for a reason. You wouldn't hurt yourself on purpose (or maybe you do c;), but physical pain helps you stay safe. I feel this is the same purpose of negative feelings. Finally, I have found out that suppressing these feelings does not allow you to fully process and heal from the events that trigger them.

Aloha 3y ago

Too much navel gazing being bad, is I think almost obvious enough to not require study. I just wished more people practiced it.

cf141q5325 3y ago
Thats an unfair simplification the article doesnt allow for. There is no reason to throw out introspection with not engaging with toxic thought patterns. Especially as a lack of the former often leads to a helplessness regarding the later.

gonzo41 3y ago

It's all about Recency and Frequency. Reliving terrible events to adjust to terrible events is just re traumatizing. Putting distance between your current self and a trauma just seems smart.

deleted 3y ago

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captainbland 3y ago

I suppose it wouldn't be that surprising. Mindfulness for instance teaches you to "let go" of thoughts - which is really just a gentle form of suppression. CBT encourages you to redirect existing negative thoughts in a positive/constructive direction - ultimately steering you away from or undermining the original negative thought - but does not encourage you to do a deep dive on it. Not to mention that Freud was a quack who was more prone to speculation than to science, so if traditional psychotherapy is based on his work then it is likely built on sand. Taken to the opposite extreme, I think it's in some sense obvious that some degree of suppression is actually good for you, precisely because ruminating for long periods of time is clearly bad for you. From a neurological point of view, why should we see reiterating negative thoughts as any different from reinforcement learning? If we revisit these negative topics, are we not strengthening their presence in our minds? That said this study does not sound like it proves that suppressing negative thoughts works over a long period of time. The original theory posits that these suppressed thoughts might cause problems even years later when the latest this was followed up was a period of three months. So grains of salt etc.

jongjong 3y ago
The trouble with suppressing negative thoughts in the long run is that, eventually, reality may force you to confront them all at once and under far more difficult conditions. I'm a strong believer that you have to confront negative thoughts and resolve underlying issues as soon as they arise and not neglect them and tell yourself that everything is going to be OK. It's not going to be OK. Murphy's law; what can go wrong WILL go wrong. This has been shown to me over and over again. You cannot leave anything to chance. I'd rather have a few negative thoughts from time to time and resolve them as they come than fool myself into thinking that I'm living in la-la land and then after a few years find out that it has become hell on earth due to my neglect. It's like a garden; you need to maintain it. If you ignore the weeds, they'll eventually take over your garden. You can tell yourself that the weeds add charm and make your garden look more natural; that you're going for a "wild tropical look" or whatever, all part of the plan, but with that attitude, you're bound to fail. You'll just keep getting more of whatever it is that you neglect until it becomes unbearable.

leemailll 3y ago

See, daydreaming helps

dguest 3y ago

Why are we still talking about Freud? Some researchers studied how to be happy. Unsurprisingly they also found no support for Freudian ideas that were popular 30 years ago. The Cambridge University PR office still leads by stating Freudian ideas as the "accepted narrative". Maybe they are? But this is the least novel result of the study, and yet it's in the headline. Obviously we shouldn't shoot the messenger: science writers are just going for clicks like most of the internet. But wow, Freud dug us quite a deep hole to climb out of.

scns 3y ago
It is so easy being smarter than Plato/Kant/Freud. You just need to be born later. Still they are a valuable part of the evolution of the human mind IMHO. Some of his thoughts still make sense, even if they are not falsifiable.
barrysteve 3y ago
Because Freud fills his niche perfectly. People who want to refer to his ideas, his character, his writing, can do so.. What bothers me deeply is that all the first-order/top-level work was done in the past and we're not really exploring that space anymore. The science may disprove Freud, and unfortunately we have still not progressed past his niche and character as an intro to psychology. Freud didn't dig a hole, he left a high quality signpost to the future. We need a better signpost but people are using Freud 'cause recent second-order psych and statistics is sexier.
derbOac 3y ago
Maybe there's a generic term for this (objects or figures held up for attack as a way of signaling group membership), but in the behavioral sciences and psychiatry there's a lot of strawman figures or ideas that get held up by authors as an object of derision, as a way for the authors to assert being part of "real science". This takes a lot of forms, but Freud is one of these figures. Others involve references to mind-body dualism ("this is a brain-based phenomenon, not a psychological one", which is ironic in a lot of ways), there a lot of others. The behavioral sciences often are ridiculed by other sciences, sometimes rightly so, but sometimes by people who are unaware of the complexities involved in certain topics, or who are otherwise just being narcissistic bullies; so people trying in good faith to do research sometimes use targeting figures like Freud to signal their "science credentials." This case leaves me scratching my head a bit because the idea of suppressing negative thoughts sometimes being a bad thing isn't just a Freudian idea (what Freud was actually saying, and how different modern theories are from those of Freud, is a whole topic onto itself). CBT, which is often held up as some kind of gold standard of empirically supported therapy, has this idea of a hierarchy of beliefs, some a person might be aware of, and others of which the person only holds implicitly. These "core beliefs" go unaddressed, sometimes through active avoidance, which leads to problems (or so the theory goes). Or from a purely behavioral perspective, someone has some fear that leads to elaborate avoidance behaviors, which cause impairments — the treatment being exposure to the feared stimulus. The framing of this is odd because I don't think any good therapist would say that avoiding negative thoughts is always good or always bad. It depends on the situation. Sometimes someone needs to just shift attention from unproductive rumination. But sometimes people do have a lot of issues that go unaddressed, and that avoidance becomes unhealthy because it leaves a whole belief system or set of interpersonal problems unresolved, or snowballs out of control. None of this is necessarily Freudian or not Freudian, and framing it as such says more about the concerns of the authors than anything about the theories used in modern therapy or the implications of the study results.

aszantu 3y ago

Working through multiple traumata for a few years now. I've found that if you work through a negative thought long enough, it will eventually reveal its purpose. I've started journaling in 2016 or so, so it takes a long time, since I didn't have coaching or anything. Internal dialog goes like this: - feeling numb and like dieing ~ what's the issue? - I don't work, feeling guilty over not working, I'd wish they'd fire me over that ~ That true? - I want to get fired so my destiny comes true again, ima fckup, looser ~ you're not though (examples of achievements) - reality fcks with my belief... (some silence, processing, giving it time) ... so, I'm not a fckup? ~ No - That feels ... hopeful? (haven't felt that in a very long time) ~ weird, hm? - why do I believe this? (ima fckup) ~ Feels safer that way, others can't hurt you if you do it first and harder. Nobody can hurt you like you do... (mix of loving feelings follows) I've done byron katie's work for a while, and some of her voice was internalized (listened to her youtube dialogues for 2-3 weeks), that might be, where the nice questioning voice must have come from.

soared 3y ago
That may work for you, but most of my negative thoughts don’t have a purpose. They exist because I forgot to eat, exercise, or be social.
- aszantu 3y ago
  that as well, thanks for adding that. Wetware has to be served first.

jl6 3y ago

Where does suppressing negative thoughts end, and reality denial begin? There are many unpleasant realities that we must learn to cope with that cannot just be ignored or forgotten. Credit card debt is a source of negative thoughts for many - and not just low-level grumbles, but genuinely distressing anxiety. People kill themselves over their financial difficulties. But having a debt is definitely not something we should encourage people to suppress, because it gets worse if left unattended. It’s not just mundane realities like debt that are potentially dangerous if ignored. Should you try to suppress negative thoughts about pain, or worries about a growth on your skin, instead of seeking medical treatment? What should we do with delusional or criminal people who believe something about themselves that is plainly wrong? Should a kleptomaniac seek to affirm their behavior, or should they confront themselves? How can we tell the difference between the thoughts that are safe and healthy to ignore, and those upon which light should be shone?

m463 3y ago
> Where does suppressing negative thoughts end, and reality denial begin? Personally I think that juncture is where procrastination lives.
- oysterpingu 3y ago
  Could you elaborate?
mdp2021 3y ago
> How can we tell the difference If you have to act upon it, think about it - in a strategic modality; if running your mind about it is just wasting your energies, don't.
starluz 3y ago
That’s where your human skill for critical thinking must come into play. Debt is a tangible issue sort of negative thoughts- they are promoting you to resolve something with real consequences. Negative thoughts about a friend slighting you is useless after the first time. If the action repeats make some decisions but don’t dwell in that spiral It doesn’t have to be prescriptive it’s subjective and we really need to understand nuance.

jokoon 3y ago

The most important to learn is to vigilant about passing and automatic thoughts. When you're conscious about them, it helps a lot.

wowgoldfarmer 3y ago

If you are present and highly aware you never need to suppress anything ever again. One needs to meditate. Learn to meditate. Stop relying in science for answers

mdp2021 3y ago

Somehow relevant piece of art, .gif animation, from Portuguese artist André Carrilho. Title: Bad memories https://cdn.myportfolio.com/453a92f80b154a9480bc9e2ebcb57c99/7119fdb4-efbb-4e69-9c2d-d0d18f8757f2_rw_600.gif?h=0e08f0ebf978dadd2acb2c7f69ef3eeb https://cdn.myportfolio.com/453a92f80b154a9480bc9e2ebcb57c99...

kristjank 3y ago
That's a great piece of art, but maybe a content warning for gore-y content would be in order.
- mdp2021 3y ago
  Did not perceive it as such. It is metaphorical. And it is an animated illustration (as opposed to realistic depiction). Actually, the first reference is the scan (the slices are MRI), so an image of analysis. Then, the slicer can suggest removal (of the «bad memories»). If anybody perceived it as sensational, they should go beyond the impact and perceive it as operational, or as sympathetical (your fellow man is performing his burden - where a bit of apprehension for the in-a-perspective "painful" act is shared experience).
  - rendx 3y ago
    I would definitely categorize it as "gory". I can almost "feel" the slicing, the moment I look at it. It's not like I can control my perception like you say, even if I tried: the interpretation and emotional/body reaction happens before that. I can intellectually ADD information, but by that not really resolve what the "emotional brain" does.
    - mdp2021 3y ago
      > I can almost "feel" ... the moment I look at it That should not happen. It is as if you could feel what is happening inside "Tom and Jerry" and "Road Runner". Certainly Hanna, Barbera, Jones and Maltese did not even remotely mean to induce sensational sympathy. Similarly, Carrilho is expressing concepts through visual art, with the usual mechanism of "subject and object" - detached, it is implied. Allow me to suggest: you may have acquired that "open channel allowing influence" as a habit, like a posture. It should slowly recede through the constant conscience that the spectator is detached and the sensational influence is an improper disposition that must be (naturally, automatically - it will gradually come with the conscience) corrected.

danw1979 3y ago

For a few years after the death of my baby daughter, I’d relive the events of that day pretty regularly, looking for some kind of meaning, pattern, lesson to be learned maybe. I’d also continually wonder what she’d be like now she was 3, 4 years old, etc. This was making me incredibly sad. Eventually, I just had to forget that day, forget her, stop thinking about what her life would have been like, and get on with enjoying the here and now, with my other children. Even though it would be her 10th birthday next week, I haven’t thought much about her in the run up to this. Dwelling on past trauma didn’t work for me. YMMV.

late25 3y ago
Heartbreaking. I know it means nothing but my heart goes out to you. Wishing you the best.
heckelson 3y ago
I have nothing constructive to add to your comment, but I was quite moved by it. I'm not a parent (yet?) so I can only begin to imagine what you must have gone through, however I hope you're in a better place now.
johnchristopher 3y ago
Yes, it's incredibly cruel when we realize that sometimes forgetting or not keeping them alive in our thoughts is the only way to keep on living without being burdened by the sadness of what may or should have been.
93po 3y ago
Focusing on present moment is a very powerful tool and I’m glad you discovered it. Your daughter would want you to be happy. Best wishes to you and your family.
Balgair 3y ago
I am so sorry for your loss. I am glad to hear you are healing in your own way though. I'll make sure to hug my own extra hard tonight.

samsquire 3y ago

I think it's really important to separate and discern "light" and "darkness" in your mind and actions, word and deed. I think mental health, negative thoughts is driven by your understanding of truth If you think the truth is dark then you are looking at darkness and attributing it to truth or the light, which is a mistaken identity. Calling light (the truth) the darkness is an error. Calling darkness the truth is an error. I believe the truth is good. You should pick the right "duality" as your foundational truth, since it's your foundations of whether or not you're in darkness or light. If it's not good, it's not true reality but a manifestation of darkness. Don't look at darkness and call it the truth. Truth is light, truth is a good thing. Separate the light from the darkness. Bad things going on is a manifestation of darkness, not the truth of what is the foundation nature of everything (which I think is light, good). Ground yourself in light, for that's what the universe is powered by. (Why would you pick the worse option if light is the truth why would you pick otherwise?) For people who believe in a God of love and arbiter of what is true, the truth is light and positive. The mechanism of the universe, love, kindness, compassion, mercy, grace, gravity, words, law, legality, mathematics, quantum effects, physics, the mysteries and who decides upon their workings. Good vs Evil. Light vs darkness. True vs False It's like being blamed for something you didn't do. Truth cannot be sullied by darkness. If you keep "the truth is good" as your hope and faith = "light/good is what is is and are", then the darkness cannot touch you.

orwin 3y ago

The idea of suppressed/repressed thoughts and feelings came from psychoanalysis, it doesn't surprise me that like most ideas of that pseudoscience, it's a bad one. I think lithotherapy might be less toxic.

NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
What I found out in my discovery of Complex PTSD is the concept of the emotional flashback. That is, an event or situation triggers distant memories, and we relive it through emotions rather than conscious thought. This explains preverbal childhood traumas, and repeated traumas that do not resolve to a single memory or experience. They built up over time and they consistently elicited in us negative emotions and the associated physiological discomfort. It gets to a point where it becomes irrational, that we are afraid of our own shadows because it is so uncomfortable for us to relive traumas and re-experience emotions, but they are nonverbal, nonvisual, and nonspecific, so we weren't sure why we were being triggered in the first place. I have missing memories. I can remember significant events in my childhood and they are mostly traumatic. Sometimes, I have attempted to explore the good times and find pleasurable memories. They are there, but they're overwhelmed by the ones that wounded me. Sometimes I'm told about my past by a third party, often by my primary abuser, who has an outstanding memory. I think that soon I should try to explore those good memories again. I wish I had a therapist to guide me.

barrysteve 3y ago

I really disagree with this concept of "thoughts" being a free-floating occurence that springs on you like a burgular in the night. Obviously thoughts exist and understanding why and how thoughts exist is yet to be known. But don't we have centuries of philosophers writing about what happens if you follow those thoughts... IF I had a thought about the boringness of "seeing the same damn thing again and again", that's not an Event in my mind that needs a special verb attached to it. I just know those thoughts occur and Schopenhauer knows better than I do, what life is like if you follow and grow that particular thought. I really wonder how we're supposed to survive the experiences of pleasure and pain, positive/negative, happy/sad, whatever... without a philosophy to validate our experiences. People can think negatively (or positively) all they want, in my view, as long as it's connected to their philosophy managing their experiences. The problems occur when you let the experiences of feeings/emotions reinforce arbitrary thoughts, and cloud/submerge/drown the ability to rationalize your way out of trouble.

karaterobot 3y ago

> “What we found runs counter to the accepted narrative,” said Professor Anderson. “Although more work will be needed to confirm the findings, it seems like it is possible and could even be potentially beneficial to actively suppress our fearful thoughts.” I don't know if this study convinces me, but my own experience sure does. I've lived both ways, there's no question in my mind what works better for me. The jokey, modern trope is the guy who ignores his feelings and then blows up later. I found instead that negative feelings tend to go away if you focus on other things, but if you focus on bad thoughts, they just last longer and sometimes grow into fixations.

carvink 3y ago

The WHO has a guide for "unhooking from difficult thoughts and feelings". At one point it says "You cannot stop these thoughts from arising. They are normal and natural. But it is not so helpful to get hooked by them." and then goes on to explain some simple practices to help unhook. https://www.who.int/publications/i/item/9789240003927 https://www.who.int/publications/i/item/9789240003927 Here's more detail about how it was tested. https://www.psychologicalscience.org/news/releases/2022-april-trauma-intervention-ukraine.html https://www.psychologicalscience.org/news/releases/2022-apri...

takinola 3y ago

Weirdly, the exact opposite works for me. As someone recently dealing with a measure of anxiety, I found that a 3 step process has helped remove the worst of it. 1. Examine the feeling - Pay attention to the thoughts causing the anxiety. What exactly about it is disturbing? What outcomes are you afraid is going to happen. Think about it like an interesting topic you are hearing about. What questions would you ask? 2. Explore the feeling - Articulate how it makes you feel. Where in your body are you experiencing this feeling? Is your mind racing, your chest tightening, stomach churning? Notice each feeling and where it is happening. 3. Exaggerate the feeling - Take the anxiety causing thought and turn it up to 11. If you are feeling anxious about your job, imagine you not only get fired but the company takes out an ad in the NY times letting everyone in the industry know not to hire you again. If you're anxious about not saving enough, imagine you go bankrupt and have to live in a cardboard box by the street. Don't just imagine the worst case scenario, imagine the nuclear + ebola scenario. After making a habit of this, I found that my reaction to these thoughts is not as emotionally severe. I don't know exactly why it works but my guess is that when your mental response to stress is disproportionate to the stimuli, the process of examining the thoughts acts as a way of desensitizing the mind to the stimulus whilst keeping some emotional distance from them. The act of exaggeration adds some comic relief to the process and, I find, actually makes me (slightly) look forward to the anxious thoughts ("Ooh, I wonder what crazy scenario I am going to come up with for this one") and replaces the negative feeling (fear, churning) with a positive one (curiosity, excitement).

mlsmith 3y ago

I heard a saying once, something like, "thinking too much about the past causes depression and thinking too much about the future causes anxiety." In other words stay in the present as much as possible and fend off invasive thoughts with distractions, hobbies, and helping others.

sacrosancty 3y ago

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Khelavaster 3y ago

Dehumanizing people mentally instead of thinking negative thoughts about them goes further!