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FAA authorizes Zipline to deliver commercial packages using drones

525 points by gok 3y ago

guerrilla 3y ago
So now we will be surveilled everywhere we go. If you think these drones won't be recording you and that that data won't be used against you then you haven't been payimg attention.
- clumsysmurf 3y ago
  At minimum I would expect a real time feed of license plates, into databases like Vigilant Technologies for use by insurance, law enforcement, etc.
- 0xEF 3y ago
  Have you heard of smartphones? Not that the fact that we willingly buy surveillance devices (crave them, even) justifies additional police-state BS with delivery drones, of course. Both are bad news couched in very awesome ideas about convenience and connectivity. My biggest worry is that if everyone turns their attention to the sky, the devices in our pockets will just get more invasive. A near literal "look at the birdie" distraction!
  - guerrilla 3y ago
    Worse is worse.
Flockster 3y ago
A video from Mark Rober about Zipline, to get an idea. I was very impressed when I first heard of them. https://youtu.be/DOWDNBu9DkU https://youtu.be/DOWDNBu9DkU
- ashton314 3y ago
  The blood-delivery-via-catapulted-drone is pretty awesome. Video is definitely worth a watch!
  - Semaphor 3y ago
    Yeah, it starts with the US drones, and those are nice, but just vastly less cool than what is used in Rwanda, which the video quickly pivots to.
    - XorNot 3y ago
      I mean, the part where it's pure electric is what strikes me as a significant for other applications: this is an adaptation in logistics that can be rolled out independent of people's personal transport preferences. Every bit of volume pretty directly can knock some ICE usage off the road, and more importantly because batteries are integral to the process it's pretty amenable to be running purely on renewables. That's a hell of "technology which can just plain make everything better" possibility.
      - Semaphor 3y ago
        I guess for me the difference is that one is only now being tested in the USA. And even if successful, it will take forever to come here in Germany, especially in any place but Berlin/Hamburg/Munich. And the other one is in active use.
    - aikinai 3y ago
      Completely agree; he should have led the video with the medical drones. When it was recommended by the algorithm, I watched a few seconds and then closed it—Okay, another drone delivery company... But then someone personally recommended I watch it so I gave it another chance and loved the Rwandan section!
- fillskills 3y ago
  Came here to post this. Its one of the most amazing videos for me : combines medicine, engineering, entrepreneurship and flying!! Look forward to more of their successes.
  - amelius 3y ago
    Also a nice peek at the Rwandese community.
- nomilk 3y ago
  > when your lunch only weighs a few ounces, delivering it in 2-ton gas powered vehicles is wildly inefficient Seems absurd when it's put like that. This is possibly something we'll look back on and struggle to comprehend how it was ever the go-to solution.
  - RC_ITR 3y ago
    Sorry for being an annoying biker - but only if we built communities where deliveries could happen on human-powered <50kg vehicles. No, let's instead try to game the superlinear scaling of power to weight in helicopters!
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - bnegreve 3y ago
    The size of these vehicles is certainly absurd, but flying packages with drones that consume most of their energy to fight gravity does not seem particularly efficient either, (e.g. compared to small road electric vehicles with the same payload, which would have its own practical problems).
    - XorNot 3y ago
      Aircraft are more energy efficient then cars[1] at scale. But even a light plane like a Cessna 172 does 13L/100KM[2] depending on flight speed. Certainly more then my Prius, but it can take a much more direct route too. There's also the simple practical issue: self-driving cars can't navigate a complex crowded environment, whereas self-flying planes navigate a much simpler environment with many more regulatory controls on behavior. [1] https://www.sustainablebusiness.com/2014/02/surprisingly-airplanes-more-energy-efficient-than-cars-52127/ https://www.sustainablebusiness.com/2014/02/surprisingly-air... [2] https://www.flyouts.com/vliegtuig/cessna-172 https://www.flyouts.com/vliegtuig/cessna-172
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
- gniv 3y ago
  They’ve been doing those deliveries in Rwanda for 6 years! Very impressive. This video has a bit more info and is less rushed: https://youtu.be/jEbRVNxL44c?si=vWGAmhDr2nyA-vDu https://youtu.be/jEbRVNxL44c?si=vWGAmhDr2nyA-vDu
- nlh 3y ago
  Quick tangential question: I watched a few seconds that video and was immediately struck by how Mark sounds so....YouTube'ey? What is it about his intonation and narration style that is so distinctly YouTube? I don't watch enough YouTube to get a sense for whether it's distinct to him or to an entire class of popular channels. Every sentence or two is a "quip" - it's loud and sing-song'y. Lots of phrases seem to end on a rising tone (my parents used to call this "upspeak?" because it sounds like you're asking a question? all the time?). Where/when did this style arise?
  - waldothedog 3y ago
    Can’t say for sure where it comes from. But upspeak and it’s tangential culture does more psychic damage to me than advertising, “bad ux”, dubious business models, and most of the other common gripes on here
  - cosmojg 3y ago
    > I cut my finger making lunch? So I placed an order for some bandaids a couple minutes ago? And now they're four seconds away! That is a nearly silent drone system that can deliver a package from the sky? Right to my backyard in as little as two minutes? With dinner plate accuracy! Where else do people talk like this? What motivates this kind of speech?
    - new_user_final 3y ago
      You can ask ChatGPT to make it 500 words intro. It will sound natural, just like, how you talk with your friends. People don't want to wait for someone talking something 5 minutes then realize that it's not the video they want to watch. The idea is that you want to say everything about the video within 10/15 seconds to make viewer interested. Just like how you want that the title of HN story must be under 80 character, not 800. Do you start conversation with someone by saying 80 words then go on for 30 minute?
    - marcosdumay 3y ago
      > Where else do people talk like this? On TV, but it got out of fashion recently. There's a Monty Python sketch about an island full of foreign news reporters that's quite illustrating.
- RC_ITR 3y ago
  For those that watched the video - what is being approved is the 'Sparrow' which is the catapult-launched drone they use in Africa. All the 'hover over the house and winch down the package' aspects are still vaporware.
- sllabres 3y ago
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEbRVNxL44c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEbRVNxL44c
carbocation 3y ago
> The FAA authorized Zipline International, Inc., to deliver commercial packages around Salt Lake City and Bentonville Is there something about the geography or climate of these two places that made them the right choice to be the testbeds for this platform?
- despideme 3y ago
  Walmart is based in Bentonville. e.g.: https://corporate.walmart.com/news/2020/09/14/walmart-and-zipline-team-up-to-bring-first-of-its-kind-drone-delivery-service-to-the-united-states https://corporate.walmart.com/news/2020/09/14/walmart-and-zi...
- pm90 3y ago
  I think it’s just the sites close to customers. Bentonville is likely for Walmart.
  - kube-system 3y ago
    And SLC is for their other customer, Intermountain Healthcare https://www.deseret.com/2022/10/4/23385813/drone-delivery-intermountain-healthcare-zipline-utah-south-jordan https://www.deseret.com/2022/10/4/23385813/drone-delivery-in...
- hindsightbias 3y ago
  Salt Lake is a super grid with a street naming convention that only a drone could love. Northwest South 1st East Street. Not sure the rotors would be optimal at that altitude though. Walmartville might also be problematic with all those shotguns. Bird dogs may not be optimal at retrieving quadcopters. Would make a good SNL skit.
  - eliaspro 3y ago
    The Zipline Sparrow isn't a quadcopter, but a fixed-wing aircraft: https://amablog.modelaircraft.org/amamuseum/2023/08/11/ziplines-sparrow-on-display/ https://amablog.modelaircraft.org/amamuseum/2023/08/11/zipli...
aeontech 3y ago
This is incredibly cool! I was wondering when it would come to the US, but figured it would get stuck in legal approval hell. So exciting that it's actually coming.
- londons_explore 3y ago
  This is just one city. I could imagine they won't be allowed to spread to any more cities due to actual or exaggerated noise complaints. Every competitor has an incentive to delay them - and therefore there are lots of people who want to set up 'salt lake city quiet sky protest group'
  - simbolit 3y ago
    It is two cities, SLC and Walmartville. It's like in literally the second line of the FAA notice.
khvirabyan 3y ago
Been following them for a while, this episode from No Priors podcast to be honest is one of the best episodes I've listened in a while (all podcasts in). Really happy for them on being approved to fly in the US. Here's the episode - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eIxL0NnMko https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eIxL0NnMko
mdmglr 3y ago
I’m wondering if eventually airspace will be carved out for commercial drone operations. And if in the future the FAA will attempt to stop enthusiast drone operations via costly regulations in the name of safety for commercial drone ops. As it’s very easy for someone with a DJI drone from to fly beyond LOS. Also a Walmart in my area has blocked off part of its parking lot to launch 6 delivery drones. I’m going to miss the days of quiet skies.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- bluescrn 3y ago
  It certainly looks like hobbyist drones/model aircrafts are going to be regulated out of existence almost everywhere (maybe still permitted at registered club sites, but nowhere else?). Especially now the world has seen videos of weaponised FPV drones in Ukraine. But I don't see drone deliveries becoming a big thing outside of niche cases (e.g. medical supplies to remote locations with no easy road access). Payload capacity is very limited, wind/weather will ground them, and delivering to arbitrary homes/businesses (without dedicated landing/drop-off zones) isn't a solved problem. Then there's the safety/liability issues when they drones fail/crash. And the inevitability of Americans shooting guns at them.
- supergeek 3y ago
  Read up on the upcoming FAA Remote ID regulations. They were scheduled to go online last Saturday, but were postponed 6 months. They would effectively make it illegal to fly at any altitude without a transponder broadcasting the precise location of the aircraft. The RC community has been pushing back on the regulations as it ads a lot of weight, expense, and complexity to drones and RC aircraft. There hasn't been any justification given by the FAA as to why these regulations are needed, adding to the confusion. Normally restrictions are put in place after an accident or some incident.
bigbacaloa 3y ago
[dead]
noobermin 3y ago
Where can I learn more? A first instinctual impression of this is that this is a terrible idea and may lead to many injuries and damage to property. I'm open though to having my mind changed as there seems to be a growing set of people doing this.
- jfoster 3y ago
  It wouldn't lead to many injuries. Things like this are mostly safe to roll out as long as they can be paused or rolled back if anything happens.
leoh 3y ago
Reminder that Google is utterly a joke. Effectively infinite cash. Among the first-movers in the space. Literally nothing in full-scale production to show for it. And today, beat by Zipline. Yet almost every CS major at Stanford still stays up all night doing leetcode or whatever stupid thing they're doing to try to get a place there.
- rcme 3y ago
  Why would a Stanford grad care about earning a meager salary at Zipline?
  - amrocha 3y ago
    Zipline pays very well
    - leoh 3y ago
      This doesn't surprise me, because unlike Google, they actually have an innovative contribution in production; and given all the evidence, it ain't gonna' be cancelled any time soon.
  - lijok 3y ago
    That's the problem GP is outlining. CS grads are breaking their backs to get a job at Google, then Google goes and wastes all that talent 'cause they can't get their house in order.
  - m-ee 3y ago
    Zipline doesn’t pay like google but is decent, they post salaries for their roles. A Stanford classmate of mine works there according to LinkedIn.
  - quailfarmer 3y ago
    Plenty of Stanford Grads at Zipline! :)
- siva7 3y ago
  People are still acting like they’re putting openAI out of business when they release their closed beta ai model because its google.
quickthrower2 3y ago
What about the noise pollution?
- Turskarama 3y ago
  Interesting you should ask. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z58RORCUTao https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z58RORCUTao
  - junofan 3y ago
    “Silent” is a stretch, though it doesn’t seem too bad: https://youtube.com/shorts/W_WDw1KFHUg https://youtube.com/shorts/W_WDw1KFHUg
    - Turskarama 3y ago
      They're quiet enough that if you're anywhere near a road you won't hear them over the noise of car tyres. In the video you linked the sound of the parachute deploying was significantly louder than the drone itself, that's close enough to silent for me.
      - globular-toast 3y ago
        Yeah but cars are too loud. It's not good enough to say "don't worry they'll be drowned out by the biggest source of noise pollution there is". I suppose the future is everyone inside sound proofed bubbles because outside will be hell.
      - simbolit 3y ago
        I live in the center of a big city, but my windows are pointed away from the road. At the moment I am hearing someone one building over three floors down practicing piano, and the startup devs opposite chatting over a cigarette on the fire escape. Might be "close enough to silent" for you, but cars are really loud. If this is in even the same league, this is too loud, especially as you just can't get a flat with windows pointed away from the drones.
RichieAHB 3y ago
For others interested in how these Sparrow (“Platform 1”) drones operate: - Cruises at 80-120m and 60mph - Max payload of 1.8kg - 50 mile max delivery distance (although it can fly 190 mile on a single charge) - Payload dropped by parachute from 25-30m into a 5m diameter landing zone. More details on Wikipedia[1] and the Zipline site[2] [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zipline_(drone_delivery_company) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zipline_(drone_delivery_comp... [2] https://www.flyzipline.com/technology https://www.flyzipline.com/technology
- concordDance 3y ago
  The most important number isn't in your list: noise level That's what really needs solving for mass drones to take off.
  - lathiat 3y ago
    They actually solved that. Watch Mark Robers video at 13m50s: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOWDNBu9DkU&t=830s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOWDNBu9DkU&t=830s However this FAA approval is apparently for the Gen1 fixed wing plane (which is quieter than a drone anyway). Their Gen2 "drone" design is barely audible.
    - bakies 3y ago
      the same quiet propellers are on both drones
- silviot 3y ago
  They parachute deliver blood, but they will use a different technique for consumers. From their website: > Lowering from the body of the Platform 2 Zip, this little droid uses onboard perception to leave packages exactly where they're supposed to go, whether that's a doorstep or patio table.
  - RichieAHB 3y ago
    While that is true for Platform 2 drones, from reading this article [1] it seems the ruling currently only applies to Platform 1 drones (ie. the specs I was referencing). Although it does seem like the Platform 2 drones would be more of what you’d imagine for drones dropping consumer packages in the US. And that article goes on to state that this ruling seems like a jumping off point for securing further exemptions (ie for the Platform 2). [1] https://dronedj.com/2023/09/19/zipline-earns-faa-bvlos-exemption-crucial-to-unlocking-full-drone-delivery-potential/ https://dronedj.com/2023/09/19/zipline-earns-faa-bvlos-exemp...
clumsysmurf 3y ago
A few days ago, i saw this article in SF Chronicle; a joint opinion piece from MIT professor Carlo Ratti: "Uber was supposed to help traffic. It didn’t. Robotaxis will be even worse" https://www.sfchronicle.com/opinion/openforum/article/robotaxi-car-technology-traffic-18362647.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/opinion/openforum/article/robota... The basic gist was, convenience of ride-sharing / seduced us into over using cars. It was supposed to have the opposite effect "...ride-hailing and ride-sharing could make our streets cleaner and more efficient. ... With minimal delays to passengers, we could match riders and reduce the size of New York City taxi fleets by 40%. More people could get around in fewer cars for less money. We could reduce car ownership, and free up curbs and parking lots for new uses" but ... they did not take into account changes in human behavior. People stopped walking, using bicycles, etc... "On average, ride-hailing trips generated far more traffic and 69% more carbon dioxide than the trips they displaced." I think this is what will happen with these drone delivery services. As it becomes easier to order a box of bandaids and have it delivered in 4 minutes, people will change their behavior, we will be ordering more frequently one-off things from Walmart several times a week, and the sky will be filled with drones... and it will be hell.
- ricardobeat 3y ago
  But ride-sharing was never really a thing, was it? I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone use it.
  - fragmede 3y ago
    Before the pandemic, Uber Pool and Lyft Line were quite popular as a cheaper point-to-point transportation option in my city.
    - ghaff 3y ago
      I’ve had people tell me they used it. Don’t know the overall mix pre-pandemic and no idea if it has returned at all.
- KRAKRISMOTT 3y ago
4ndrewl 3y ago
Related in the UK: https://news.sky.com/story/royal-mail-launches-uks-first-drone-delivery-service-12931621 https://news.sky.com/story/royal-mail-launches-uks-first-dro...
Gasp0de 3y ago
This only works in sparsely populated areas like the US though. I can't imagine this working in European countries (or cities like New York) where most people live in multi-story buildings in the city that are shared with other people. Where would the drone land?
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > can't imagine this working in European countries (or cities like New York)…where would the drone land? My fire escape. Drones are perfect for vertical environments.
  - delfinom 3y ago
    Pretty sure the need to keep fire escapes clear for emergencies will lead to the drone companies going bankrupt from fire marshal fines very quickly.
  - mschuster91 3y ago
    > My fire escape Most of these are small. It's already a challenge to navigate a Mini 3 Pro, or even a GoPro Karma (~1 kg) as it can jitter around quite a lot simply due to random wind. Confined spaces are no bueno for drones
  - jeltz 3y ago
    Most apartments don't have fire escapes.
    - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
      > Most apartments don't have fire escapes Show me the overlap between potential demand for drone delivery, on one hand, and people who have no porch, fire escape, balcony or window from which they can suspend a platform?
      - jeltz 3y ago
        Most of many European city centres?
danr4 3y ago
I don’t understand why we don’t have delivery tunnels
- thefurdrake 3y ago
  You mean like a city-wide pneumatic tube setup? Seems kinda Jetsons to me.
- Gasp0de 3y ago
  Because digging tunnels is an absurd amount of work?
  - baq 3y ago
    We still do it for cables, water and sewage?
    - ccozan 3y ago
      That is a very interesting idea: to build small tunnels / raise along the side walk/streets for small robots/drones. It even does not need to be a tunnel: a covered trench, 50cmx50cm , would do the trick.
      - pbhjpbhj 3y ago
        We have tunnels (in cities in the UK), they're called storm drains. Using such tunnels for deliveries when it's raining would be right out. However when cycle lanes are put in, alongside them we could have delivery-bot lanes, maybe? Although if you have to install infrastructure then it might be as well to go full Futurama and have giant vacuum-delivery tubes.
        quickthrower2 3y ago
        What about using the road as the bot delivery lane, using an electric van as the bot? The MVP could be a diesel van with a human driver :-)
mirzap 3y ago
This reminds me of Uber, Lift, and food delivery companies... Years and decades of VC money poured in, and they still can't get profitable. How the fuck anyone can think using drones, with current technology, can be profitable in consumer-centric logistics? Drone logistics has its unique value proposition, primarily for medical transfers and emergency deliveries in remote areas. But thinking that flying drones from city to city, or inside the city, will replace or offset road logistics to deliver someone a book in 50 minutes is just stupid. Does anyone here think Zipline will justify its crazy multi-billion valuation?
- moritonal 3y ago
  It's about labour. Replacing the salary of a human physically delivering a package will cover any overhead two times over.
  - hef19898 3y ago
    You don't seembto grasp the reality of delibery drivers salaries. Teamsters are the exception, and even they are competively cheap per parcel delivered, otherwise UPS would never have agreed.
  - holoduke 3y ago
    2-3 grant for a month of delivering parcels. How many parcels. 500? 1000? Thats 2 to 6 dollars per parcel. Goodluck bringing your costs down to that level with drones.
- baq 3y ago
  > with current technology They’re literally building new technology
  - mirzap 3y ago
    There is nothing new there from a technology aspect. What part of the drone didn't exist 20 years ago? Or 50? But I primarily meant on battery technology anyway. Until you have entirely new battery technology that will be compact, ultralight, safe, and long-lasting (at least a day or two of flight without recharge), drone deliveries will not be profitable. It will serve the niche market, though. But that's not a multibillion-dollar market with a bunch of competitors.
broken_clock 3y ago
Is it a NIMBY sentiment to not want these in cities? I can't imagine the kind of clusterfuck these would cause in a sufficiently dense city. The sky blotted with these...
- RealityVoid 3y ago
  I personally feel it is NIMBY. They actually provide a useful service. They would like NOT to have clusterfucks because they are dangerous to their operations. The noise level is much improved in this design. I think an honest shot is worth it.
  - tgv 3y ago
    > They would like NOT to have clusterfucks That's not based on actual experience. And it isn't a useful service, IMO. It's another attempt to sell something that's currently shared (air-space, silence), while not offering benefits in a city. In remote areas, it could offer something, but I'm sure the big bucks are to be found in densely populated areas.
    - RealityVoid 3y ago
      Yeah... people pay for it... because it's useful. That's usually how money works. I am kind of irked by this pervasive cynicism on HN where whenever some guys want to build something, the crowd goes "boooo, you're stealing from us!! This won't work!!! There will be some cost and we're not willing to pay anything!! "
      - broken_clock 3y ago
        There is a new externality that they're not paying for. I don't care if other people pay for it, I want to be reimbursed for the externality it causes me.
    - jdminhbg 3y ago
      > It's another attempt to sell something that's currently shared (air-space, silence) Silence isn't part of the tradeoff, since delivery trucks and vans are much louder. And I prefer giving up airspace to deliveries, since my kids aren't playing in the airspace.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
rocauc 3y ago
Ronnie, I feel like you're just here for the zipline
zx10rse 3y ago
One of my favorite companies since I heard about them - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEbRVNxL44c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEbRVNxL44c I personally believe this is the way forward, like in a star wars movie full of a plethora of "dumb" robots who have a specific work task, and are almost self sufficient. Like you have a robot that fix delivery drones, a robot that assembles them, and etc. Drones will be also much better at avoiding obstacles, and they will be much more efficient than cars. I am not really sure why there isn't more competition in this market. I believe they can build an autonomous delivery hub, and factory. I wish them all the best.
noelrock 3y ago
Irish company Manna have been doing this in two Irish suburbs for a number of years now. They're worth checking out - their CEO Bobby Healy often tweets interesting stuff around payloads, journeys per day, route maps etc. I've worked with them a little and think they're building something really interesting.
- falcor84 3y ago
  Thanks, haven't heard of them before, but they do look cool. Just adding the links here: https://www.manna.aero/ https://www.manna.aero/ https://twitter.com/realBobbyHealy https://twitter.com/realBobbyHealy
BurningFrog 3y ago
I never order takeout etc, because getting in to my building is so complex it's easier for me to go to the restaurant. If a drone could gently drop items on my roof, that would be a real game changer for my life!
- op00to 3y ago
  Can I help you build a food zip line system? :)
wuiheerfoj 3y ago
I wonder if we’ll ever replace letterboxes with package chimneys to accommodate aerial delivery
- cooper_ganglia 3y ago
  Santa Claus was ahead of his time! The next Silicon Valley is the North Pole!
monkaiju 3y ago
Can we please not fill the air with delivery drones... Between the noise and the inevitable surveillance that'll come with them can we not just deliver via e-bike or something...
stjohnswarts 3y ago
I wonder how many drones falling out of the sky and dropping on cars/people will it take to rescind this?
taldo 3y ago
We're like 3 steps away from Factorio-style logistic robots... The factory must grow!
- marcosdumay 3y ago
  Except for the entire assembling random stuff...
stronglikedan 3y ago
They say there's no such thing as a free lunch, but now it will just require good aim and a recoverable projectile!
- jdrbc 3y ago
  I've always thought shopping would be more fun if it was less similar to gathering & more similar to hunting. Scan the sky for size 10 sneakers. Pull back the drawstring and BAM! Now you have shoes and a story to tell.
- itishappy 3y ago
  You can sit outside McDonalds with a baseball bat today, but I don't think that's what most people have in mind when they talk about "free lunch."
ericmay 3y ago
Very much not excited or looking forward to drone and aerial vehicle/taxi/Uber visual and noise pollution. This isn't progress, this is selling out our well-being and environment so that a few people can get rich.
- elil17 3y ago
  I also don't like how the rich get away with things - but is that the case here? Zipline's drones are probably better for the environment than ground vehicles because they are small, light, and electric. They're also supposed to operate at 55 dB for people on the ground - similar to how noisy a delivery van is.
  - ericmay 3y ago
    Yea I definitely think it's the case here. The thing about the delivery van is that it doesn't go away, we just add additional noise with the delivery drone. Delivery vans can be made to be electric as well to bring the noise down further and so you actually just get loud drones and quiet delivery vans. But the delivery drones are just one aspect. We're also going to get these flying taxis and those are going to suck too. Why invest or pay to maintain roads or highways or to build and improve sidewalks, bike lanes, busses, or rail lines when you can just take your air taxi directly to your landing spot and make sure to avoid contact with any humans along the way. A good lens that you can use to examine this technology is whether the drones and air taxis are additive or subtractive. Good technology tends to be subtractive, i.e. an iPhone replaced a lot of unnecessary things (of course it had some downsides). Sidewalks and bike lanes are another good example of subtractive technology. Additive technology would be something like a heated seat subscription, or these air taxis and drones. We're not really improving anything we're doing today, we're just adding to it. It's like feature creep.
    - elil17 3y ago
      It's not clear to me why you think they won't reduce delivery van usage. It's hard for me to imagine that they would not. I'd also argue that more environmentally friendly, faster, potentially less expensive delivers are an improvement on what people are doing today. Air taxis are very different from a regulatory perspective (greater safety requirements) and from an engineering perspective (much heavier payloads). I don't really see this authorization as evidence that they will be approved in the future.
Etrnl_President 3y ago
Shadowrunners needed. Transport job. Paying top Nuyen. Rigger a must. Contact: Zipline
sheepybloke 3y ago
Related company that's doing similar work: Talyn! They're a great team, and really excited about the work they are doing. https://www.talyn.com/ https://www.talyn.com/
carabiner 3y ago
Eating Prime Air's lunch. Zipline is to SpaceX what Prime Air is to Boeing, often literally because Prime Air has hired so many ex-Boeing guys in the Seattle area.

525 points by gok 3y ago

So now we will be surveilled everywhere we go. If you think these drones won't be recording you and that that data won't be used against you then you haven't been payimg attention.

clumsysmurf 3y ago
At minimum I would expect a real time feed of license plates, into databases like Vigilant Technologies for use by insurance, law enforcement, etc.
0xEF 3y ago
Have you heard of smartphones? Not that the fact that we willingly buy surveillance devices (crave them, even) justifies additional police-state BS with delivery drones, of course. Both are bad news couched in very awesome ideas about convenience and connectivity. My biggest worry is that if everyone turns their attention to the sky, the devices in our pockets will just get more invasive. A near literal "look at the birdie" distraction!
- guerrilla 3y ago
  Worse is worse.

Flockster 3y ago

A video from Mark Rober about Zipline, to get an idea. I was very impressed when I first heard of them. https://youtu.be/DOWDNBu9DkU https://youtu.be/DOWDNBu9DkU

ashton314 3y ago
The blood-delivery-via-catapulted-drone is pretty awesome. Video is definitely worth a watch!
- Semaphor 3y ago
  Yeah, it starts with the US drones, and those are nice, but just vastly less cool than what is used in Rwanda, which the video quickly pivots to.
  - XorNot 3y ago
    I mean, the part where it's pure electric is what strikes me as a significant for other applications: this is an adaptation in logistics that can be rolled out independent of people's personal transport preferences. Every bit of volume pretty directly can knock some ICE usage off the road, and more importantly because batteries are integral to the process it's pretty amenable to be running purely on renewables. That's a hell of "technology which can just plain make everything better" possibility.
    - Semaphor 3y ago
      I guess for me the difference is that one is only now being tested in the USA. And even if successful, it will take forever to come here in Germany, especially in any place but Berlin/Hamburg/Munich. And the other one is in active use.
  - aikinai 3y ago
    Completely agree; he should have led the video with the medical drones. When it was recommended by the algorithm, I watched a few seconds and then closed it—Okay, another drone delivery company... But then someone personally recommended I watch it so I gave it another chance and loved the Rwandan section!
fillskills 3y ago
Came here to post this. Its one of the most amazing videos for me : combines medicine, engineering, entrepreneurship and flying!! Look forward to more of their successes.
- amelius 3y ago
  Also a nice peek at the Rwandese community.
nomilk 3y ago
> when your lunch only weighs a few ounces, delivering it in 2-ton gas powered vehicles is wildly inefficient Seems absurd when it's put like that. This is possibly something we'll look back on and struggle to comprehend how it was ever the go-to solution.
- RC_ITR 3y ago
  Sorry for being an annoying biker - but only if we built communities where deliveries could happen on human-powered <50kg vehicles. No, let's instead try to game the superlinear scaling of power to weight in helicopters!
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- bnegreve 3y ago
  The size of these vehicles is certainly absurd, but flying packages with drones that consume most of their energy to fight gravity does not seem particularly efficient either, (e.g. compared to small road electric vehicles with the same payload, which would have its own practical problems).
  - XorNot 3y ago
    Aircraft are more energy efficient then cars[1] at scale. But even a light plane like a Cessna 172 does 13L/100KM[2] depending on flight speed. Certainly more then my Prius, but it can take a much more direct route too. There's also the simple practical issue: self-driving cars can't navigate a complex crowded environment, whereas self-flying planes navigate a much simpler environment with many more regulatory controls on behavior. [1] https://www.sustainablebusiness.com/2014/02/surprisingly-airplanes-more-energy-efficient-than-cars-52127/ https://www.sustainablebusiness.com/2014/02/surprisingly-air... [2] https://www.flyouts.com/vliegtuig/cessna-172 https://www.flyouts.com/vliegtuig/cessna-172
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
gniv 3y ago
They’ve been doing those deliveries in Rwanda for 6 years! Very impressive. This video has a bit more info and is less rushed: https://youtu.be/jEbRVNxL44c?si=vWGAmhDr2nyA-vDu https://youtu.be/jEbRVNxL44c?si=vWGAmhDr2nyA-vDu
nlh 3y ago
Quick tangential question: I watched a few seconds that video and was immediately struck by how Mark sounds so....YouTube'ey? What is it about his intonation and narration style that is so distinctly YouTube? I don't watch enough YouTube to get a sense for whether it's distinct to him or to an entire class of popular channels. Every sentence or two is a "quip" - it's loud and sing-song'y. Lots of phrases seem to end on a rising tone (my parents used to call this "upspeak?" because it sounds like you're asking a question? all the time?). Where/when did this style arise?
- waldothedog 3y ago
  Can’t say for sure where it comes from. But upspeak and it’s tangential culture does more psychic damage to me than advertising, “bad ux”, dubious business models, and most of the other common gripes on here
- cosmojg 3y ago
  > I cut my finger making lunch? So I placed an order for some bandaids a couple minutes ago? And now they're four seconds away! That is a nearly silent drone system that can deliver a package from the sky? Right to my backyard in as little as two minutes? With dinner plate accuracy! Where else do people talk like this? What motivates this kind of speech?
  - new_user_final 3y ago
    You can ask ChatGPT to make it 500 words intro. It will sound natural, just like, how you talk with your friends. People don't want to wait for someone talking something 5 minutes then realize that it's not the video they want to watch. The idea is that you want to say everything about the video within 10/15 seconds to make viewer interested. Just like how you want that the title of HN story must be under 80 character, not 800. Do you start conversation with someone by saying 80 words then go on for 30 minute?
  - marcosdumay 3y ago
    > Where else do people talk like this? On TV, but it got out of fashion recently. There's a Monty Python sketch about an island full of foreign news reporters that's quite illustrating.
RC_ITR 3y ago
For those that watched the video - what is being approved is the 'Sparrow' which is the catapult-launched drone they use in Africa. All the 'hover over the house and winch down the package' aspects are still vaporware.
sllabres 3y ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEbRVNxL44c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEbRVNxL44c

carbocation 3y ago

> The FAA authorized Zipline International, Inc., to deliver commercial packages around Salt Lake City and Bentonville Is there something about the geography or climate of these two places that made them the right choice to be the testbeds for this platform?

despideme 3y ago
Walmart is based in Bentonville. e.g.: https://corporate.walmart.com/news/2020/09/14/walmart-and-zipline-team-up-to-bring-first-of-its-kind-drone-delivery-service-to-the-united-states https://corporate.walmart.com/news/2020/09/14/walmart-and-zi...
pm90 3y ago
I think it’s just the sites close to customers. Bentonville is likely for Walmart.
- kube-system 3y ago
  And SLC is for their other customer, Intermountain Healthcare https://www.deseret.com/2022/10/4/23385813/drone-delivery-intermountain-healthcare-zipline-utah-south-jordan https://www.deseret.com/2022/10/4/23385813/drone-delivery-in...
hindsightbias 3y ago
Salt Lake is a super grid with a street naming convention that only a drone could love. Northwest South 1st East Street. Not sure the rotors would be optimal at that altitude though. Walmartville might also be problematic with all those shotguns. Bird dogs may not be optimal at retrieving quadcopters. Would make a good SNL skit.
- eliaspro 3y ago
  The Zipline Sparrow isn't a quadcopter, but a fixed-wing aircraft: https://amablog.modelaircraft.org/amamuseum/2023/08/11/ziplines-sparrow-on-display/ https://amablog.modelaircraft.org/amamuseum/2023/08/11/zipli...

aeontech 3y ago

This is incredibly cool! I was wondering when it would come to the US, but figured it would get stuck in legal approval hell. So exciting that it's actually coming.

londons_explore 3y ago
This is just one city. I could imagine they won't be allowed to spread to any more cities due to actual or exaggerated noise complaints. Every competitor has an incentive to delay them - and therefore there are lots of people who want to set up 'salt lake city quiet sky protest group'
- simbolit 3y ago
  It is two cities, SLC and Walmartville. It's like in literally the second line of the FAA notice.

khvirabyan 3y ago

Been following them for a while, this episode from No Priors podcast to be honest is one of the best episodes I've listened in a while (all podcasts in). Really happy for them on being approved to fly in the US. Here's the episode - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eIxL0NnMko https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eIxL0NnMko

mdmglr 3y ago

I’m wondering if eventually airspace will be carved out for commercial drone operations. And if in the future the FAA will attempt to stop enthusiast drone operations via costly regulations in the name of safety for commercial drone ops. As it’s very easy for someone with a DJI drone from to fly beyond LOS. Also a Walmart in my area has blocked off part of its parking lot to launch 6 delivery drones. I’m going to miss the days of quiet skies.

deleted 3y ago
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bluescrn 3y ago
It certainly looks like hobbyist drones/model aircrafts are going to be regulated out of existence almost everywhere (maybe still permitted at registered club sites, but nowhere else?). Especially now the world has seen videos of weaponised FPV drones in Ukraine. But I don't see drone deliveries becoming a big thing outside of niche cases (e.g. medical supplies to remote locations with no easy road access). Payload capacity is very limited, wind/weather will ground them, and delivering to arbitrary homes/businesses (without dedicated landing/drop-off zones) isn't a solved problem. Then there's the safety/liability issues when they drones fail/crash. And the inevitability of Americans shooting guns at them.
supergeek 3y ago
Read up on the upcoming FAA Remote ID regulations. They were scheduled to go online last Saturday, but were postponed 6 months. They would effectively make it illegal to fly at any altitude without a transponder broadcasting the precise location of the aircraft. The RC community has been pushing back on the regulations as it ads a lot of weight, expense, and complexity to drones and RC aircraft. There hasn't been any justification given by the FAA as to why these regulations are needed, adding to the confusion. Normally restrictions are put in place after an accident or some incident.

bigbacaloa 3y ago

[dead]

noobermin 3y ago

Where can I learn more? A first instinctual impression of this is that this is a terrible idea and may lead to many injuries and damage to property. I'm open though to having my mind changed as there seems to be a growing set of people doing this.

jfoster 3y ago
It wouldn't lead to many injuries. Things like this are mostly safe to roll out as long as they can be paused or rolled back if anything happens.

leoh 3y ago

Reminder that Google is utterly a joke. Effectively infinite cash. Among the first-movers in the space. Literally nothing in full-scale production to show for it. And today, beat by Zipline. Yet almost every CS major at Stanford still stays up all night doing leetcode or whatever stupid thing they're doing to try to get a place there.

rcme 3y ago
Why would a Stanford grad care about earning a meager salary at Zipline?
- amrocha 3y ago
  Zipline pays very well
  - leoh 3y ago
    This doesn't surprise me, because unlike Google, they actually have an innovative contribution in production; and given all the evidence, it ain't gonna' be cancelled any time soon.
- lijok 3y ago
  That's the problem GP is outlining. CS grads are breaking their backs to get a job at Google, then Google goes and wastes all that talent 'cause they can't get their house in order.
- m-ee 3y ago
  Zipline doesn’t pay like google but is decent, they post salaries for their roles. A Stanford classmate of mine works there according to LinkedIn.
- quailfarmer 3y ago
  Plenty of Stanford Grads at Zipline! :)
siva7 3y ago
People are still acting like they’re putting openAI out of business when they release their closed beta ai model because its google.

quickthrower2 3y ago

What about the noise pollution?

Turskarama 3y ago
Interesting you should ask. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z58RORCUTao https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z58RORCUTao
- junofan 3y ago
  “Silent” is a stretch, though it doesn’t seem too bad: https://youtube.com/shorts/W_WDw1KFHUg https://youtube.com/shorts/W_WDw1KFHUg
  - Turskarama 3y ago
    They're quiet enough that if you're anywhere near a road you won't hear them over the noise of car tyres. In the video you linked the sound of the parachute deploying was significantly louder than the drone itself, that's close enough to silent for me.
    - globular-toast 3y ago
      Yeah but cars are too loud. It's not good enough to say "don't worry they'll be drowned out by the biggest source of noise pollution there is". I suppose the future is everyone inside sound proofed bubbles because outside will be hell.
    - simbolit 3y ago
      I live in the center of a big city, but my windows are pointed away from the road. At the moment I am hearing someone one building over three floors down practicing piano, and the startup devs opposite chatting over a cigarette on the fire escape. Might be "close enough to silent" for you, but cars are really loud. If this is in even the same league, this is too loud, especially as you just can't get a flat with windows pointed away from the drones.

RichieAHB 3y ago

For others interested in how these Sparrow (“Platform 1”) drones operate: - Cruises at 80-120m and 60mph - Max payload of 1.8kg - 50 mile max delivery distance (although it can fly 190 mile on a single charge) - Payload dropped by parachute from 25-30m into a 5m diameter landing zone. More details on Wikipedia[1] and the Zipline site[2] [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zipline_(drone_delivery_company) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zipline_(drone_delivery_comp... [2] https://www.flyzipline.com/technology https://www.flyzipline.com/technology

concordDance 3y ago
The most important number isn't in your list: noise level That's what really needs solving for mass drones to take off.
- lathiat 3y ago
  They actually solved that. Watch Mark Robers video at 13m50s: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOWDNBu9DkU&t=830s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOWDNBu9DkU&t=830s However this FAA approval is apparently for the Gen1 fixed wing plane (which is quieter than a drone anyway). Their Gen2 "drone" design is barely audible.
  - bakies 3y ago
    the same quiet propellers are on both drones
silviot 3y ago
They parachute deliver blood, but they will use a different technique for consumers. From their website: > Lowering from the body of the Platform 2 Zip, this little droid uses onboard perception to leave packages exactly where they're supposed to go, whether that's a doorstep or patio table.
- RichieAHB 3y ago
  While that is true for Platform 2 drones, from reading this article [1] it seems the ruling currently only applies to Platform 1 drones (ie. the specs I was referencing). Although it does seem like the Platform 2 drones would be more of what you’d imagine for drones dropping consumer packages in the US. And that article goes on to state that this ruling seems like a jumping off point for securing further exemptions (ie for the Platform 2). [1] https://dronedj.com/2023/09/19/zipline-earns-faa-bvlos-exemption-crucial-to-unlocking-full-drone-delivery-potential/ https://dronedj.com/2023/09/19/zipline-earns-faa-bvlos-exemp...

clumsysmurf 3y ago

A few days ago, i saw this article in SF Chronicle; a joint opinion piece from MIT professor Carlo Ratti: "Uber was supposed to help traffic. It didn’t. Robotaxis will be even worse" https://www.sfchronicle.com/opinion/openforum/article/robotaxi-car-technology-traffic-18362647.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/opinion/openforum/article/robota... The basic gist was, convenience of ride-sharing / seduced us into over using cars. It was supposed to have the opposite effect "...ride-hailing and ride-sharing could make our streets cleaner and more efficient. ... With minimal delays to passengers, we could match riders and reduce the size of New York City taxi fleets by 40%. More people could get around in fewer cars for less money. We could reduce car ownership, and free up curbs and parking lots for new uses" but ... they did not take into account changes in human behavior. People stopped walking, using bicycles, etc... "On average, ride-hailing trips generated far more traffic and 69% more carbon dioxide than the trips they displaced." I think this is what will happen with these drone delivery services. As it becomes easier to order a box of bandaids and have it delivered in 4 minutes, people will change their behavior, we will be ordering more frequently one-off things from Walmart several times a week, and the sky will be filled with drones... and it will be hell.

ricardobeat 3y ago
But ride-sharing was never really a thing, was it? I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone use it.
- fragmede 3y ago
  Before the pandemic, Uber Pool and Lyft Line were quite popular as a cheaper point-to-point transportation option in my city.
  - ghaff 3y ago
    I’ve had people tell me they used it. Don’t know the overall mix pre-pandemic and no idea if it has returned at all.
KRAKRISMOTT 3y ago

4ndrewl 3y ago

Related in the UK: https://news.sky.com/story/royal-mail-launches-uks-first-drone-delivery-service-12931621 https://news.sky.com/story/royal-mail-launches-uks-first-dro...

Gasp0de 3y ago

This only works in sparsely populated areas like the US though. I can't imagine this working in European countries (or cities like New York) where most people live in multi-story buildings in the city that are shared with other people. Where would the drone land?

JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> can't imagine this working in European countries (or cities like New York)…where would the drone land? My fire escape. Drones are perfect for vertical environments.
- delfinom 3y ago
  Pretty sure the need to keep fire escapes clear for emergencies will lead to the drone companies going bankrupt from fire marshal fines very quickly.
- mschuster91 3y ago
  > My fire escape Most of these are small. It's already a challenge to navigate a Mini 3 Pro, or even a GoPro Karma (~1 kg) as it can jitter around quite a lot simply due to random wind. Confined spaces are no bueno for drones
- jeltz 3y ago
  Most apartments don't have fire escapes.
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > Most apartments don't have fire escapes Show me the overlap between potential demand for drone delivery, on one hand, and people who have no porch, fire escape, balcony or window from which they can suspend a platform?
    - jeltz 3y ago
      Most of many European city centres?

danr4 3y ago

I don’t understand why we don’t have delivery tunnels

thefurdrake 3y ago
You mean like a city-wide pneumatic tube setup? Seems kinda Jetsons to me.
Gasp0de 3y ago
Because digging tunnels is an absurd amount of work?
- baq 3y ago
  We still do it for cables, water and sewage?
  - ccozan 3y ago
    That is a very interesting idea: to build small tunnels / raise along the side walk/streets for small robots/drones. It even does not need to be a tunnel: a covered trench, 50cmx50cm , would do the trick.
    - pbhjpbhj 3y ago
      We have tunnels (in cities in the UK), they're called storm drains. Using such tunnels for deliveries when it's raining would be right out. However when cycle lanes are put in, alongside them we could have delivery-bot lanes, maybe? Although if you have to install infrastructure then it might be as well to go full Futurama and have giant vacuum-delivery tubes.
      - quickthrower2 3y ago
        What about using the road as the bot delivery lane, using an electric van as the bot? The MVP could be a diesel van with a human driver :-)

mirzap 3y ago

This reminds me of Uber, Lift, and food delivery companies... Years and decades of VC money poured in, and they still can't get profitable. How the fuck anyone can think using drones, with current technology, can be profitable in consumer-centric logistics? Drone logistics has its unique value proposition, primarily for medical transfers and emergency deliveries in remote areas. But thinking that flying drones from city to city, or inside the city, will replace or offset road logistics to deliver someone a book in 50 minutes is just stupid. Does anyone here think Zipline will justify its crazy multi-billion valuation?

moritonal 3y ago
It's about labour. Replacing the salary of a human physically delivering a package will cover any overhead two times over.
- hef19898 3y ago
  You don't seembto grasp the reality of delibery drivers salaries. Teamsters are the exception, and even they are competively cheap per parcel delivered, otherwise UPS would never have agreed.
- holoduke 3y ago
  2-3 grant for a month of delivering parcels. How many parcels. 500? 1000? Thats 2 to 6 dollars per parcel. Goodluck bringing your costs down to that level with drones.
baq 3y ago
> with current technology They’re literally building new technology
- mirzap 3y ago
  There is nothing new there from a technology aspect. What part of the drone didn't exist 20 years ago? Or 50? But I primarily meant on battery technology anyway. Until you have entirely new battery technology that will be compact, ultralight, safe, and long-lasting (at least a day or two of flight without recharge), drone deliveries will not be profitable. It will serve the niche market, though. But that's not a multibillion-dollar market with a bunch of competitors.

broken_clock 3y ago

Is it a NIMBY sentiment to not want these in cities? I can't imagine the kind of clusterfuck these would cause in a sufficiently dense city. The sky blotted with these...

RealityVoid 3y ago
I personally feel it is NIMBY. They actually provide a useful service. They would like NOT to have clusterfucks because they are dangerous to their operations. The noise level is much improved in this design. I think an honest shot is worth it.
- tgv 3y ago
  > They would like NOT to have clusterfucks That's not based on actual experience. And it isn't a useful service, IMO. It's another attempt to sell something that's currently shared (air-space, silence), while not offering benefits in a city. In remote areas, it could offer something, but I'm sure the big bucks are to be found in densely populated areas.
  - RealityVoid 3y ago
    Yeah... people pay for it... because it's useful. That's usually how money works. I am kind of irked by this pervasive cynicism on HN where whenever some guys want to build something, the crowd goes "boooo, you're stealing from us!! This won't work!!! There will be some cost and we're not willing to pay anything!! "
    - broken_clock 3y ago
      There is a new externality that they're not paying for. I don't care if other people pay for it, I want to be reimbursed for the externality it causes me.
  - jdminhbg 3y ago
    > It's another attempt to sell something that's currently shared (air-space, silence) Silence isn't part of the tradeoff, since delivery trucks and vans are much louder. And I prefer giving up airspace to deliveries, since my kids aren't playing in the airspace.

deleted 3y ago

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rocauc 3y ago

Ronnie, I feel like you're just here for the zipline

zx10rse 3y ago

One of my favorite companies since I heard about them - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEbRVNxL44c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEbRVNxL44c I personally believe this is the way forward, like in a star wars movie full of a plethora of "dumb" robots who have a specific work task, and are almost self sufficient. Like you have a robot that fix delivery drones, a robot that assembles them, and etc. Drones will be also much better at avoiding obstacles, and they will be much more efficient than cars. I am not really sure why there isn't more competition in this market. I believe they can build an autonomous delivery hub, and factory. I wish them all the best.

noelrock 3y ago

Irish company Manna have been doing this in two Irish suburbs for a number of years now. They're worth checking out - their CEO Bobby Healy often tweets interesting stuff around payloads, journeys per day, route maps etc. I've worked with them a little and think they're building something really interesting.

falcor84 3y ago
Thanks, haven't heard of them before, but they do look cool. Just adding the links here: https://www.manna.aero/ https://www.manna.aero/ https://twitter.com/realBobbyHealy https://twitter.com/realBobbyHealy

BurningFrog 3y ago

I never order takeout etc, because getting in to my building is so complex it's easier for me to go to the restaurant. If a drone could gently drop items on my roof, that would be a real game changer for my life!

op00to 3y ago
Can I help you build a food zip line system? :)

wuiheerfoj 3y ago

I wonder if we’ll ever replace letterboxes with package chimneys to accommodate aerial delivery

cooper_ganglia 3y ago
Santa Claus was ahead of his time! The next Silicon Valley is the North Pole!

monkaiju 3y ago

Can we please not fill the air with delivery drones... Between the noise and the inevitable surveillance that'll come with them can we not just deliver via e-bike or something...

stjohnswarts 3y ago

I wonder how many drones falling out of the sky and dropping on cars/people will it take to rescind this?

taldo 3y ago

We're like 3 steps away from Factorio-style logistic robots... The factory must grow!

marcosdumay 3y ago
Except for the entire assembling random stuff...

stronglikedan 3y ago

They say there's no such thing as a free lunch, but now it will just require good aim and a recoverable projectile!

jdrbc 3y ago
I've always thought shopping would be more fun if it was less similar to gathering & more similar to hunting. Scan the sky for size 10 sneakers. Pull back the drawstring and BAM! Now you have shoes and a story to tell.
itishappy 3y ago
You can sit outside McDonalds with a baseball bat today, but I don't think that's what most people have in mind when they talk about "free lunch."

ericmay 3y ago

Very much not excited or looking forward to drone and aerial vehicle/taxi/Uber visual and noise pollution. This isn't progress, this is selling out our well-being and environment so that a few people can get rich.

elil17 3y ago
I also don't like how the rich get away with things - but is that the case here? Zipline's drones are probably better for the environment than ground vehicles because they are small, light, and electric. They're also supposed to operate at 55 dB for people on the ground - similar to how noisy a delivery van is.
- ericmay 3y ago
  Yea I definitely think it's the case here. The thing about the delivery van is that it doesn't go away, we just add additional noise with the delivery drone. Delivery vans can be made to be electric as well to bring the noise down further and so you actually just get loud drones and quiet delivery vans. But the delivery drones are just one aspect. We're also going to get these flying taxis and those are going to suck too. Why invest or pay to maintain roads or highways or to build and improve sidewalks, bike lanes, busses, or rail lines when you can just take your air taxi directly to your landing spot and make sure to avoid contact with any humans along the way. A good lens that you can use to examine this technology is whether the drones and air taxis are additive or subtractive. Good technology tends to be subtractive, i.e. an iPhone replaced a lot of unnecessary things (of course it had some downsides). Sidewalks and bike lanes are another good example of subtractive technology. Additive technology would be something like a heated seat subscription, or these air taxis and drones. We're not really improving anything we're doing today, we're just adding to it. It's like feature creep.
  - elil17 3y ago
    It's not clear to me why you think they won't reduce delivery van usage. It's hard for me to imagine that they would not. I'd also argue that more environmentally friendly, faster, potentially less expensive delivers are an improvement on what people are doing today. Air taxis are very different from a regulatory perspective (greater safety requirements) and from an engineering perspective (much heavier payloads). I don't really see this authorization as evidence that they will be approved in the future.

Etrnl_President 3y ago

Shadowrunners needed. Transport job. Paying top Nuyen. Rigger a must. Contact: Zipline

sheepybloke 3y ago

Related company that's doing similar work: Talyn! They're a great team, and really excited about the work they are doing. https://www.talyn.com/ https://www.talyn.com/

carabiner 3y ago

Eating Prime Air's lunch. Zipline is to SpaceX what Prime Air is to Boeing, often literally because Prime Air has hired so many ex-Boeing guys in the Seattle area.