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Why Resumes Are Dead and How Indeed.com Keeps Killing the Job Market
- Oron7 3y agoA genuine question: Is it better to send my CV in a word or pdf format? I assume that an ATS can read both formats?
- lusus_naturae 3y agoPersonal websites or linkedin profiles for non-techies would address a lot of the problems he's describing. Actually, linkedIn makes sense for everyone as the profile outline is standardized across users, so anyone interested can scrape info as needed. edit to say that there needs to be a less social version of linkedin, so just a profile without any of the cringe-inducing toxic positivity.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- SamBam 3y agoI have a profile up on linkedIn which I update occasionally, and never see any of the posts or social media aspects of the site. I'm not sure if another site is needed, you can just not engage with it.
- lusus_naturae 3y agoPer my experience I end up on the main page first, and on my monitor I can see at least 3-4 posts without even scrolling.
- perfect-blue 3y agoIs it really that apocalyptic? What’s the big deal. Honest question.
- midasuni 3y agoFees like a browser extension could block such posts if someone’s really bothered.
- somsak2 3y agohttps://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/hide-feed/nfnpeneopnjggmcfdkhpjefammeonpjk https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/hide-feed/nfnpeneo...
- lusus_naturae 3y agoI dislike the pretense that bad things happening is somehow good. Or when someone does something that everyone else has done a million times before (like graduate with a higher degree or get into law school), it is somehow newsworthy. I think it makes sense to share highlights of your life with people who care about you, not your professional acquaintances. I want newsworthy and informative items, not feel-good memes or self-congratulatory posts. I also dislike the evangelists who pretend their X thing will save the world and cure all its ills. Yuck.
- jdechko 3y agoBest thing I ever did was unfollow everyone in my LI network. I don’t see any of the toxic positivity posts, or the “I’m so proud of myself” posts or the “I accepted X position with Y” posts.
- autotune 3y agoEh, I mostly just see tech related content. It's what you make of it.
- BossingAround 3y agoWouldn't it be better to stop checking LI? Uninstall the app from your phone, and check LI whenever you need something from your network. Otherwise, all social networks are pretty harmful to our attention and well-being (read Stolen Focus [0] for more context). [0] https://www.amazon.com/LOST-FOCUS/dp/1526620162 https://www.amazon.com/LOST-FOCUS/dp/1526620162
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- rushils 3y agoThat’s sorta what we are building at Simplify: https://simplify.jobs/ https://simplify.jobs/ We started by building a common app for jobs. One single profile that can be used anywhere on any job on the web. Recruiters index on so many different data points, and it makes it more straightforward for both parties if data is standardized
- pcurve 3y agoI've never gotten any contacts through Indeed, unless we're talking about small staffing firms fishing lowballing and fishing for my resumes.
- hackernewds 3y agowhat would they gain by getting your resume?
- valdiorn 3y agoThey sell them to recruiters
- lemper 3y agoget last few employments through linkedin. never heard of indeed.
- zirping 3y agoNot sure if all this matters - at the end of the day, resumes are just a filtering mechanism, and then most startups/companies should set up 15-minute screeners and also do work assessments before hiring. Not sure how relevant this top of funnel problem is.
- readyplayernull 3y agoThe worst resume forms are those from Workday, I run from them like the plague. You will probably need a new email to create an account for each job application. And if you get the job, you'll have to deal with their unbearable UX where nothing can be reached directly, but needs you to dive in a menu to a page that requires clicking a box to a link to a page with a small grid view. What were they thinking!?
- BossingAround 3y agoI was honestly surprised I had to create a WD account to finish a job application. WD is a horribly slow piece of SW that I hope I won't have to use again. Sadly, it is getting very popular.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- rwmj 3y agoWorkday = the absolutely terrible SaaS software that we have to use for quarterly evaluations and booking time off? That truly is an awful, awful piece of software.
- BossingAround 3y agoOh god I forgot about the quarterly evaluations.
- rushils 3y agoTry https://simplify.jobs/copilot https://simplify.jobs/copilot Common application for jobs and it will auto fill all your information in Workday apps Disclaimer: I am the founder (we’re also YC backed!)
- yowlingcat 3y agoWhile my sympathy goes out to this person, I think this entire long, rambling, post could be condensed to a paragraph, or even a sentence: "It was a mistake for me to use Indeed.com." If you want the job (of finding leads, and finding jobs) done right, hire a professional -- a recruiter who will charge a fee and is aligned towards you finding a job. Trying to cold-apply to every single job with a spray and pray approach is about as fruitful as cold calling every company you can to sell a product which may or may not apply to them. People hate middlemen until they use non-curated marketplaces with low quality or outright fake inventory. Then they begrudgingly realize why the middleman came into existence in the first place. Make peace with the middleman. Find the competent ones and build relationships with them. If you do that, you may not always have the best job in the world, but you won't be so woefully out of touch with reality that you write a blog post like this blaming something that's clearly a consequence of your own actions on the rest of the world.
- PartiallyTyped 3y agoAny recommendations on finding such middlemen?
- raincole 3y agoAnother middleman who is "professional" at finding middlemen, of course.
- jenscow 3y agoFor a fee, I could get you in touch with a few people who are able to find middlemen
- peteradio 3y agoBuy my book: "Finding middlemen for loosers"
- yowlingcat 3y agoVery clever. But rather than optimizing towards cleverness, you could optimize towards directness and say "try them out and develop relationships over the long term." It's not as cute and clever of a phrase. It's unfortunate that the truth isn't cute and clever. Or maybe it's fortunate? You know, I actually think it's fortunate. I'll let the cynics who like being cute and clever keep their misfortune, and I'll keep my boring, ugly, successful reality.
- dboreham 3y agoNever used indeed.com once. But...people should know that these sites, and recruiters, are basically hiring theater. Almost all jobs (perhaps excepting FAANG meat grinder) are filled through personal connections.
- yterdy 3y agoThis is true. Bottom-barrel* retail food service gigs don't count. (And even then... I'm certain the manager at the Gamestop I applied to at 18 binned my paper app immediately because he was hiring his friends.) People don't like to admit it, because it calls into question the meritocratic nature of our job market. American recruitment process are fair and appropriate, not corrupt, right? Well... *not in the skill or fortitude required, but in how the employer treates you
- ndriscoll 3y agoI don't see how personal recommendations are corrupt. If you have a known good employee, and they can attest to someone being a good fit based on previous direct experience with that person, that's a pretty strong signal. If the recommendation comes from someone not so great, or if it's more of a referral than a recommendation, you can weight it appropriately.
- yterdy 3y ago>I don't see how personal recommendations are corrupt. Well, that would be the problem.
- campbel 3y agoI've gotten leads through hired and linkedin pretty easily. You can also use them to just find job postings and apply directly.
- angarg12 3y ago> Almost all jobs are filled through personal connections. I see this repeated online, but is there any data to actually back this claim up? In my experience only a small number of jobs get filled through referrals etc.
- hdjjhhvvhga 3y ago> Now, it’s pretty early to be dropping an Einstein quote, but I’m doing it anyway: “The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.” While the quote is catchy and viral, and fits many situations, Einstein has never said that. Call me biased, but when you work in tech, you need to be precise.
- rvbissell 3y ago"Don't believe anything you read on the internet" -- Abraham Lincoln
- ofcourseyoudo 3y agoEspecially when you talk about how you are a professional writer. More info here: https://quoteinvestigator.com/2017/03/23/same/ https://quoteinvestigator.com/2017/03/23/same/
- tkiolp4 3y agoIm my more than 10 years of experience as a software engineer, I’ve never used once indeed.com. It always looked to me as a place where 90% or more of the job ads are either scam or of very little quality.
- diogenes4 3y agoSo of course, the vast majority of job postings are not for software engineering. Indeed is absolutely king when it comes to job postings. I work at a warehouse and they only posted through indeed.
- nwoli 3y agoYeah it feels like some kind of shibboleth to know that the way to get the good jobs is not through indeed but through direct contact or similar. On the other hand if everyone used that tactic I guess it wouldn’t be as effective or as good of a in group signal
- greybox 3y agoYeah same, I worry though that this is just a side-effect of our skills being currently under-supplied for the current demand. We can afford to let people come to us a little bit more than someone who (even though probably has a wealth of experience) is applying for something where the supply of applicants is above or is more inline with the demand.
- tennisflyi 3y ago> very little quality Even then you get nothing - just ghosted.
- sys_64738 3y agoIndeed.com is useful for finding employers you didn't know about in your area and getting a sense of the jobs. Then I take that info and apply directly to the company through their webpage. So indeed.com is just useful for human screen scraping :)
- colesantiago 3y agoIn the age of AI, GPTs, LLMs, etc, CVs are completely over as they are now to be assumed to be generated. Only real world projects (not toy demos), years of experience, and other particularly interesting (but relevant) hobbies would work although I'm not sure they count here. I've now seen companies raising their ask for Masters - PhDs for SWEs due to this demand. What works best unfortunately is being hired/acquired by FAANG, working at hedge fund, and or a degree at a prestigious elite universities (top 0.01%) to rise above the pile. For tech, now that there is a flood of FAANG employees from recent layoffs, the job market is only going to get tougher in tech on a herculean scale.
- nradov 3y agoWhy would any hiring manager care whether a CV is AI generated? As long as the CV is accurate, the tool used to write it is irrelevant.
- colesantiago 3y ago> Why would any hiring manager care whether a CV is AI generated? As long as the CV is accurate, the tool used to write it is irrelevant. How do you know if the CV is accurate or not? Multiply these CVs by hundreds and you will introduce software to sift through fake AI generated CVs, or not bother deal with them at all as most hiring managers are extremely time constrained. By now, I'm assuming that all hiring software have ATS systems by now that does this.
- nradov 3y agoA hiring manager can't know whether a CV is accurate, but the tool used to generate it is irrelevant to that. There is no software which can reliably detect whether a document was generated by an LLM. Most tech companies now use background check services to verify educational credentials and previous employment before onboarding new hires.
- jmye 3y ago> How do you know if the CV is accurate or not? What does this have to do with AI? People have lied on their resumes long before ChatGPT existed.
- expertentipp 3y ago> “The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.” This is the quote from the last powerpoint slide by cute girl from consulting agency. Sweetheart I wake up every morning, eat and drink the same, and yes I expect this day will be different.
- BossingAround 3y agoThat's not what the quote says. It'd be more like you waking up, eating the same thing every day, and expecting different outcomes from the eating, e.g. the level of satiety or the effect on your energy until lunch.
- expertentipp 3y ago> and expecting different outcomes from the eating, e.g. the level of satiety or the effect on your energy until lunch. But eating the same can absolutely result with different levels of satiety and energy. Ever been sick, poisoned, or depressed?
- BossingAround 3y agoIt can, but again, that's not what the quote says. Suppose you eat a candy bar and get hungry 30m later. Suppose you do it again. If you're surprised that you got hungry, that's what the quote defines as insanity. If you eat the same thing, you expect the same results. Whether you get the same results or not is a result of the complex chemical processes in your body. That's not what the quote argues about either.
- pengaru 3y agoThe quote is and always has been silly/wrong. Without a time machine you can't repeat the same thing. It's different every time.
- expertentipp 3y agoExactly Panta Rhei doesn't mean not to do the same thing repeatedly, it means even if one does it again, the water flows and the river is completely different.
- samrus 3y agoBros probably just feeling the high interest rates. Powell got another one
- EPWN3D 3y agoMy solution to this is to have a Markdown resume that is easy to decompose into any form fields an employer has. If they want a normal one, I produce a lightly-formatted PDF.
- __rito__ 3y agoI have a LaTeX template that I edit and export to PDF. I also have one that is plain markdown and easy to customize, and it also works as an online CV via GitHub pages [0]. For jobs that I apply through lever, Firefox remembers all the fields! xD [0]: https://ritog.github.io https://ritog.github.io
- Accujack 3y agoYou can also automate form filling with Simplify co-pilot: https://simplify.jobs/copilot https://simplify.jobs/copilot You have to re-type or cut and paste everything one more time, but it should be the last time you have to do it.
- adeon 3y agoThe author says they've been applying to thousands of jobs. This is the resume the author is linking in the article: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/v2sv6ev393z9fkk62v1hw/Paul-Fuhr-2023-CV.pdf?rlkey=sb71duxptnyg1oqnollohd8t8&dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/v2sv6ev393z9fkk62v1hw/Paul-Fu... I wonder, if this person's main method of applying has been online forms where you click the "upload resume", he puts this resume in and then everything fails from the start because the ATS is unable to read it. It looks like the text in the resume is not text but an image. I read some posts back this year that most publicly advertised positions get bazillion applications, most of which suck, so you have to assume a computer program is going to filter your resume first, unless you've been referred in. I don't like his resume that much, I think it's a bit too embellished but if I needed a person with his kind of experience (based on the resume), I would talk to them. But if I also had 2000 other applications in front of me, I am not going to read them one by one without using a helper tool to filter them.
- jsemrau 3y agoI would expect no less from a JP Morgan employee ;-)
- 38 3y ago100% agree. this thing is WAY too stylish. just put the information so that a computer can read it in. the annoyance factor is probably enough to reject him in some cases.
- _8j50 3y agoOh come on. OCR is a thing. I mean this is HN, are you normalizing acceptance of crappy software?
- AnimalMuppet 3y agoI would not blame the software. I'm pretty sure that images are not generally used as formats for resumes. I mean, at what point do you think it gets ridiculous? When it's a video instead of an image? When it's in Sanskrit? (Computer translation is a thing, after all.) When it's a video in Sanskrit? Or maybe is it more reasonable to say, look, this is some text, submit it in a standard text format? And an image is not that, even though OCR is a thing.
- ppeetteerr 3y agoTheir job recommendation system is just awful. I really hope they put some money into improving it.
- ethanhoroschak 3y agoTheir job classification needs some major work - I get way too big of a range of experience levels in postings. Checkout Simplify: https://simplify.jobs/ https://simplify.jobs/ been working hard to make actually relevant curated matches
- SamPatt 3y agoI'm stuck in a similar loop and I understand the author's frustration. Everything feels automated, and it feels like all I can do is look forward to the rare moments when I actually speak with a person about their role and try to showcase my experience and skills. It's demoralizing. I've taken to doing freelance AI data annotation work, which is somewhat boring and not using my full capabilities, but while I'm in this limbo, I'm not sure what else to do.
- gorbachev 3y ago"Everything feels automated" That's because they are. ATS solutions are a cancer. I used to work for a company that was trying to make the job application process easier. It didn't work, because at the end, there was an ATS behind it all.
- jsemrau 3y agoI came across this question the other day while discussing AI Agents. Would you chat with an AI agent to be the first line recruiter assuming that you can have a "real" chat with that agent? I.e., the agent ask real questions? OR do you think its fairer we submit a CV with years of work experience condensed into three bullet points that's screened by an ATS AI? "Thought: To determine if John is a suitable candidate for the role of a social media marketer, I need to ask him some questions and evaluate his qualifications. Action: human Action Input: What strategies did you use to grow Boeing's Twitter channel?"
- moltar 3y agoIMO job sites were dead the day the launched. I posted a job ad on jobs.gc.ca in early 2000s which is a government site, with junk UX and even then I got about 200 applications. Then about five years ago I have talked to my last employer. And they used StackOverflow jobs and got 350 applications just the first day for a super niche position (Perl related). No doubt most applications are unrelated spam. Now, how do you expect these people to objectively review every single application and pick you? It’s not possible. You must do things differently to stand out. Or network. But that’s just another way of saying “do things differently”.
- expertentipp 3y ago> about 200 applications. > jobs and got 350 applications Been on both sides of recruiting meat grinder and initially had empathy for this "we have hundreds of applicants and most are irrelevant". Once you have experienced human specialist on the other end, have some bloody respect. If you insist on finding inconsistencies, gaps, and incompetence in the CV, all you'll get will be hardcore fraudsters.
- moltar 3y ago> Once you have experienced human specialist on the other end This just never happens in smaller orgs. And the big orgs aren’t that numerous. And even more likely to hire via within or by referral.
- mejutoco 3y agoI bet saying reply with text x to show that you read this text in full would cut the valid applications in half.
- stuaxo 3y agoDon't think I ever used indeed.com, just got something recently, the market for the last few months in the UK has been the worst I'd seen since 2008
- valdiorn 3y agoFYI, this is a dirty secret, but the correct way to use Indeed is not to apply for the job per se; it's to get in touch with the people doing the hiring. Basically, submit your "application" for a job, get a call back from the recruiter, who will then promptly say "yeah forget about that job, I've got 20 other interesting jobs that might fit you better". ... I'm pretty sure in most cases the initial job doesn't even exist.
- pd187540 3y ago[flagged]
- valdiorn 3y agoHow come I keep reading these types of posts, hearing these stories, yet I've never experienced anything remotely close to this? Job hunting has always been the opposite for me; being inundated by sharks trying to aggressively recruit me. --- For reference; here's a quick summary of my job history: Mid 20s, I was working for a retail bank in Iceland (where I'm from), doing ASP.NET and C#. With about 4 years of experience, I decided I was a "big fish in a small pond" and that I needed a greater challenge. I was interested in finance and wanted to move to London and do quant trading or HFT, so one night I applied for about 5-6 different jobs posted on Indeed.co.uk. At 7AM the next morning the phone started ringing. 3 days later I was in London, doing five interviews a day for 4 days straight, and long story short, ended up doing about a 15-20 interviews and ending the week with a dozen offers. Since then, I've done the occasional round of interviews, just to determine whether I'm "optimally employed", and they've never been an issue to set up. Basically just message a couple of reliable recruiters on LinkedIn, tell them "hey I'm interested, and I'm looking for X" and they come back with job specs on a silver platter. I've NEVER not got an interview somewhere I wanted to work. Literally never. I've been rejected a handful of times, most of which I'd chalk up to the interviewers or the hiring process being terrible. I've rejected or cut short A LOT of hiring processes, though, I have some insane stories to tell regarding that. Now, I work almost entirely by referral. I didn't even interview for my current role or send them a CV, because I'm working for and with people who know me. And I have a feeling that's how it'll stay from now on. --- So, now that I got that out of the way - why the F00k is my experience so askew with these horror stories? Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to put anyone down, or brag, or say they're doing it wrong or something, I'm simply asking; what causes the difference in experiences? Is it the fact that London finance runs on recruiters? Is that not a thing elsewhere? The last time I submitted an application directly to a company was in 2009. Since then, I've always had recruiters do it on my behalf.
- Aeolun 3y agoRecruiters are a big part of it, but honestly the hard part is getting in. Once you’ve done it once people assume you can do it again.
- tennisflyi 3y agoYou're desirable. Congrats. (Of course you don't recognize it.) Most people are most people/average trying to eke out a living .
- kazinator 3y ago> Remember when your resume was the ticket in a company’s door? No, I don't. For instance, one job, over a decade ago, I got the offer, which was followed by, "oh, by the way, can you give us your resume, so we have it on file".
- expertentipp 3y agoPersonally for me all three trains parted and there are no more trains arriving: job search, dating, real estate. I guess I will seat on the chair over here waiting for the third end of the world, because the two previous world ends I have also missed.
- akomtu 3y agoThe end of the pisces age will be in 2150 a.d. so unless you expect to live for another 125 years, you gotta get off that chair.
- expertentipp 3y agoI meant covid and Russian invasion, awaiting the crisis which seems even lazier than me.
- bsenftner 3y agoI applied to indeed.com once, and it was the most demoralizing experience of my life. I'm a fairly accomplished sr. software developer; my last official title was "sr software scientist". I've worked on internationally famous software research projects, worked on the original tech for CD-ROMs at Philips, was on the OS teams of both the 3D0 and the original PlayStation (where I wrote the video subsystems), was lead or team member on several high profile EA Sports titles, was on the team that created the first Internet live video infrastructure, produced a live talk show, worked in VFX across the roles of developer, artist & financial analyst on 9 major release feature films, I've written and acquired a global patent in VFX technology, and was lead developer for one of the leading facial recognition systems now in a high percentage of the world's airports. I'm accomplished... And what happened with my application at Indeed? The recruiter and I spoke for nearly an hour, when she asks "are you even a programmer? I've not heard you mention writing code once." Um... that was all I was talking about, and she did not understand a single bit, nor had the communication skills to ask for clarification at any point during that initial hour. WTF?!?!
- expertentipp 3y agoSir, this is Accenture.
- gcanyon 3y agoI found my current role by posting on the open to work thread in July. Early days, but so far it's among my favorite positions ever. I don't know what the answer is here, but I'm glad for HN.
- bandrami 3y agoThe last time I was looking for a job was before the pandemic. I used Craigslist like I had since 1999 or so. I glanced at it the other day and... it was just basically not there. Three programming jobs posted in the DC/NoVa area. How did that site manage to die, particularly if this is the alternative?
- daft_pink 3y agoIs their evidence that Indeed is posting scraped jobs from other services? The reason this doesn't make sense is as an employer, we found that Indeed produced the highest number of candidates but cost like $400 per listing. We would first post somewhere cheaper and then post on Indeed if we couldn't find a qualified applicant. We would have loved to post somewhere else for less money and have it be scraped and listed on Indeed for free. It's difficult to believe that their listings are being scraped from somewhere else as the actually customer is the job poster not the applicant.
- RexM 3y agoI’m not sure if Indeed scrapes other job boards, but they (we?) do show jobs scraped from employer sites. They’re called indexed jobs, whereas jobs posted directly to Indeed are called Hosted jobs. https://support.indeed.com/hc/en-us/articles/115002786323-About-Jobs-on-Indeed-What-You-Need-to-Know https://support.indeed.com/hc/en-us/articles/115002786323-Ab... I work at Indeed, but don’t have any part in scraping jobs.
- shiponfire 3y agoI believe scraped jobs are ranked lower, because, like the article pointed out, it's harder to ensure their quality.
- WirelessGigabit 3y agoIndeed is a virus that needs to die as soon as possible. It has contributed to a situation where a normal resume now is worthless. It has caused massive inflation of what we write. Everybody who doesn't excel at selling themselves ends up lower on the chain. But that absolutely doesn't mean they're a bad fit for the job. And then there are the stupid personality tests. What are they looking for if I have to click the same buttons on 2 separate screens?
- hn_throwaway_99 3y agoWant to start by saying I do really empathize with this person. But I can't help but shake my head a little when I read way too unnecessarily long missives like this (I admit, I only got a couple of paragraphs in before I bailed) and think "this person just doesn't get it." Some points: 1. First, to start, I have a ton of empathy for this person being in an extremely challenging field. He essentially did internal communications for JP Morgan for the last 10 years of their career or so. Any sort of "content creation" role that doesn't have a direct tie to revenue is going to be under the knife at most companies these days. These roles are also the ones that are most in jeopardy due to AI/ChatGPT. There was a recent Washington Post article where it highlighted some copywriters who basically lost their jobs to ChatGPT. It's not "coming", it's already here. 2. Small not-so-secret: if you are beyond the age of 30 or so, and you are a relatively high level professional (this person listed VP on his resume), you should be worried if you don't think you'd be able to get your next job through your professional network. That is, most jobs at this level may put out a job req on Indeed (often for legal reasons), but it's likely to be filled by a referral. Even if it's not a referral, it's very likely that the applicant knows someone through their network (even if a degree or two away) that can serve as a better reference. Whenever I see missives like this where the author is semi-baffled their "Send my resume to 1000 open positions" approach didn't work, I'm not surprised.
- bdowling 3y ago> way too unnecessarily long missives like this The punchline (buried way too far down) is that he calls himself a professional writer.
- hn_throwaway_99 3y agoDidn't really want to pile on, but this guy is looking for marketing writing jobs. Granted, I guess in one way he succeeded by getting to the front page of HN. But if I wanted to hire someone whose primary purpose was to communicate effectively and succinctly to potential customers (or employees as was the case with his most recent job), this post would be a red flag to me.
- mock-possum 3y ago
- mightybyte 3y agoSome years ago I was moving to a different state and looking for a job. I ended up doing interviews at six different companies. Five of those came from direct personal connections (mostly via coworkers) and one came from generic search / cold application. After the interviews, I got five offers. The only place that didn't give me an offer was the one from the generic search. It also paid significantly less than the others and simply didn't seem as interesting. My takeaway is that cultivating a network of people who you've worked with and enjoy is invaluable for increasing your options when you come to new decision points in your career.
- noitamroftuo 3y agoThis article reads like an article telling everything wrong with today's internet. not unlike https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37509507 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37509507
- tamimio 3y agoI think we all agree that there should be a unified and standardized way of submitting applications, something that passes all company's systems and also as an applicant you sure your resume is not botched somehow. Ironic how all these developers who build all these very complicated systems, APIs, architecture, you name it, can’t even make a proper system so it makes their life easier the next time they apply for a job, or even when their system receives many resumes. Keep in mind, that after all this chaotic process, these resumes will pass through a mostly-lazy HR department, so the whole process is a failure built on top of failure.
- noam_compsci 3y agoThis dude was a VP at JP. Surely he should be networking for a job, not applying to job sites?! Seems like they are going down the wrong channel. I’ve never filled a senior position in my teams via CVs, and always through word of mouth. The problem with the job market is many-fold: 1. Volume. It’s easier to travel, move, work remotely etc. so there are just so many applicants for any given post. Also skills are more transferable than ever. 2. Opaqueness: salaries usually not posted as it’s uncouth to mention. Titles no longer industry standard. Job reqs are works of corporate poetry, not realistic descriptions. So people can’t contextualise. 3. Fake internal roles: apparently some companies have policies to advertise all jobs even if it’s 99% going to be filled by an internal candidate. Apparently it stems from non discrimination law. 4. Hubris: we live in a society where everyone (especially me) eternally feels under paid and overqualified. 5. Lies: the bar of what is a lie and what is a polished CV is personal and not agreed on.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- paulfuhr 3y agoThank you for the insights here (on several levels), as well as the conversation around my article. A great deal of this thread is invaluable feedback/information as I continue to navigate everything. Sincere thanks.
- ehyde610 3y ago[dead]
- Everlynlaicest 3y ago[dead]